THIS...IS Real Raw-VueScan vs Silverfast Ai. Surprising Results!
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2020
- By popular demand, this is a comparison of how Vuescan differs from Silverfast's AI/HDR Suite for the Real Raw Scanning process. I was surprised by the value that VueScan offers-for literally 1/3 the price of Silverfast! VueScan carries out the Real Raw scanning process with a single app and surprisingly controls the scanner much better than Silverfast does!
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Thanks for a good information about Vue Scan. I have my Dad's old Retina 2c sitting on my desk and you inspired me to load it up and go use it for the first time in over fifty years.
Wow, that sounds like fun. The Retina is a great camera and probably one of the best engineered cameras I’ve ever used. I made a review video of my Retina IIc a while back if you want a refresher. Thanks!
Hey! glad you are here been catching up with the videos and trying to get the podcast for work. Thanks for sharing the the experience between the two. This topic is really hard to find information about for folks moving into self scanning machines.
Great! I’m glad you find my content useful. I just posted a video and I’m working on the next podcast.
Great info! Thank you for all the knowledge, tips and advice. Just subscribed.
Thanks for the sub! Please share
Great video, Eric.
Very enjoyable video - absolutely love this sort of thing.
Thanks for taking the time in making this video, hope to see more on the technical aspects of RAW file production from scans.
ps. any chance you could do a digital camera film scanning equivalent?
So sorry I missed this post! Digital camera scanning is nowhere near as good as using a scanner in terms of scan quality, cost, practicality etc. I looked into it and I won’t be pursuing it. Thanks!
Another superb video, thank you so much
Interesting tutorial. Thanks for sharing. Very helpful.
Cheers from LA.
Glad it was helpful!
Eric, This is a great video, It is very informative and frankly better than anything SF has produced. I have been using SF HDR for 4 years. It has been a 4 year love/hate relationship. I enjoy the feature rich capabilities of the Software, but my workflow has never been able to get traction and speed up the process of film scanning because on one bug or another in the software or because of one more hill in the learning curve to overcome. It would be different with outstanding support, but I find SF support is minimal and the help of poor quality.
Nice! Thank you for the video! :)
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this video. It's by far the best explanation on this subject I have seen anywhere. Much appreciated.
I have one question, though. I would be grateful if you could help.
If I do a 'regular' scan of a black and white negative in Silverfast Ai directly as a 16-bit TIFF with no adjustments made (no automatic dust removal, no correction of the histogram, no NegaFix, no sharpening etc.), will this file have the same informations as a 16 bit HDR Raw scan made in Silverfast Ai and then converted to a regular 16 bit TIFF in Silverfast HDR (still with no adjustments of any kind)?
I mean, as long as I make no adjustments in Silverfast during the scanning process, what information does the HDR Raw-file have that the neutral and unedited 16-bit TIFF file doesn't.
Sorry for asking this probably rather stupid question. I hope it makes sense. Thanks in advance.
- Peter.
Thank you!
I use VueScan with my Nikon CoolScan 4000 ED with good results.
Vuescan is great. I’m just not very good at using it. I get better color (easier) from Silverfast.
I use Vuescan. But I have a question about scanners. When you scan at 24 bit color, I assume that you scan each color (RGB) at 8 bits. Is that right. Then those are put in a bucket and levels are set from zero to 100 luminance values. So when you're adjusting brightness at the software level, what are you changing in the scanner. You can't change the light--I don't think there is any provision for that. When you lighten/darken or set curves I dont understand how you are adjusting the scanner. This is confusing. IOW, the scanner's light output is fixed. So, am I getting all I can out of my scanner?
Thanks for making the video. Very interesting. Have a great 2024
Thanks, you too!
Thanks for this. I actually got a lot into it since your last video and have already setup a VueScan scanning process for RGBI. Of course, VueScan is good for the scanning part, but not for processing the colors. I was never able to get consistent results in color with VueScan. Part of it is its weird UI, of course. Anyway, thanks again!
Your welcome!
Excellent video. There is surprisingly few good in depth scanning videos out there. I hope you can excuse this complicated question but I’m trying to get the best results from my set up and achieve a consistent workflow. I have an old but very good scanner for 35mm but it is unfortunately not supported by the later versions of Silverfast. Like you, I’m not keen on the Vuescan interface and would prefer to use Silverfast or Negative Lab Pro for my conversions. Do you think it’s possible to get the initial raw file scanned in Vuescan then complete the process by just importing those files into Silverfast for conversion? That way the Silverfast software wouldn’t havetalk to my scanner, right? I don’t think it would be any problem to just take those RAWs into Lightroom for Negative Lab Pro but I’m not sure at if I’m able to utilise my Digital Ice with that workflow. I hope this makes sense. Thanks a lot for the helpful channel.👍
First, are you 100 percent sure that SF doesn’t support your scanner? You probably know that SF is not universal and you need a specific version for each scanner. When I switched scanners the Silverfast tech support people were kind enough to give me a new serial number that matched my scanner free of charge. If you’ve already determined that SF won’t work, my suggestion would be to embrace Vuescan. I know you probably won’t like that answer but to have complete compatibility that’s what I would do. Lastly, I’ve scanned Raw on Vuescan and was able to open the file in SF but if I remember the infrared channel info didn’t transfer to Vuescan. It’s still worth a try since in my case that was a specific scanner and a specific version of SF and it was years ago so no harm in trying. I hope this helps and pls share my channel on your social media. Thanks!
@@FilmPhotographyChannel Thanks for the Speedy reply and advice. Yes unfortunately Silverfast 6.6 is the latest software available for my scanner.
In Vuescan I scanned 4 photos at a time. I select the clipping manually, but it checks the clippings separately. Is there any way to scan all the photos together and then crop them? The same way it does in automatic, but it doesn't work correctly in automatic.
I notice in the image with the bikers and 2 kids the chain on the right seems less clear than the chain in front of the bike guy and it looks like they are on the same plain. Is it the scan? What about film curl? It would be nice to see how scratches and especially are removed, kind of an image as is and one processed to remove the dust etc. via automated and any follow up fixes. I recall dust being quite annoying many years ago in the haphazard dark room I made in the basement. Image colors of the trees across the river looked a bit off. Also, I never knew you could see the Washington Monument from across the river like that, I always perceived it as much more in the middle of things nowhere near any river, but then what does a tourist know or remember.
It could be film curl or it could be lens distortion. It was Kodak film that lays pretty flat tho. The Washington Monument can be seen from across the Potomac River on the Mount Vernon Bicycle Trail that I frequent in the summer months.
Hi! I was wondering if you made a walkthrough video of scanning HDRi with Silverfast?
I sure did! Here it is: czcams.com/video/iarkljXEgz4/video.html
I just received the Pacific Image Powerfilm CCD Automated 35 mm Film scanner, what Silver fast version it is that is in you video? (ie SE, SE PLUS, or Ai Studio)? I would like to be able to follow along with your work flow. Or would you recommend I use the free software VueScan?
I have Ai Studio but the version that comes with our scanner (I think SE) is pretty good and works similarly if you’re doing regular scans vs RealRaw archive scans.
VueScan is not free. They provide a free version with watermarks on the scans so you can try out the software capabilities but once you buy the software you will have to re-scan the images again without the watermarks. VueScan is all around scan package that works with multiple scanners even older ones and for the price its has some great features.
FYI: I purchased VueScan's professional version being I wanted to scan negatives and have a IR scan. After purchasing I discovered their IR Scan won't work because my Canon 5600F doesn't have an infrared lamp in the scanner lid.
The good thing about Vuescan is that it’s compatible with all scanners and if you upgrade to one with an infrared capability it won’t cost you anymore. Also lifetime upgrades.
Vuescan has a scanner database built in. I’ve had 8 scanners over twelve years or so that instantly connected with Vuescan. Silverfast software is compatible with scanners by serial number. When my V700 died I had to request a new Silverfast serial number for my V850 to work which was surprising since they’re so similar. That’s been my experience anyway. That being said I haven’t changed any of my scanners since 2018 so maybe they’ve changed their licensing policies? I’ve never had to contact Hamrick who offers Vuescan but I’ve had very good experiences with LaserSoft Imaging who offers Silverfast.
What scanner would be the best to get digital copies from those fuji disposable cameras that you can buy from Walmart?
And which software would you suggest I use to help with restoration of the photos.
Any good scanner will do the job for the disposal cameras. If your scanning only 35mm I recommend the Primefilm XA. Silverfast or Vuescan are both great (Silverfast is better) for restoring old photos but you have to be sure to have a scanner with Digital Ice or some other dust and scratch remover hardware built in. Most modern scanners have this function.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel
Alright, is digital ice or scratch & dust removal is in the silver fast software?
Digital ICE is built in to the scanner. Some scanners use a different name other than Digital ICE.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel
Ohh ok, so Digital Ice is a software that comes with the power film scanner.
Which version of Silver Fast do you use, I see there's like 3 different versions of it and I was wanting to purchase the same as what you show in your videos so I can follow along with your work flow
Vuescan is great it gives you want the negative would. If it were developed, other software like to make an attempt at touching it up before displaying it to you
Also batxh scan woks best when you preview, select each image negative then save
I find that Vuescan controls my dedicated 35mm scanner better than Silverfast and gives a better scanning experience with less problems. I’ve found that SF is much better in terms of color science, sharpness and overall picture quality. I’ve compared slide film (it8 target) by viewing through a loupe vs preview and found SF to be extremely accurate and not adding false colors.
I agree that color out of VueScan is not all that great but I find scanning RAW files is better with VS over SilverFast. For color I use ColorPerfect and PhotoLine to convert my RAW scans and get results just as good if not better than SF. You can use ColorPerfect with Photoshop but I find I get better results with PhotoLine. As a side note PhotoLine, ColorPerfect, and SilverFast are all German Products, maybe they know something about Color.
Interesting. I’ve never gotten there with Vuescan although the way Vuescan works is pretty handy in some instances. I lived in Germany for a total of 15 years and I’ve found The German people to be pretty good at whatever they do. Especially their beer!
@@FilmPhotographyChannel Their beer is second to none. Their documentation and interfaces could use some work. I found similar results from SilverFast and VS+CP. ColorPerfect team goes straight to the technical documentation for each film stocks when creating a profile (and even have different profiles for same film and different batches).
I've been using Silverfast SE Plus 8 for years. I've just upgrade to the new Silverfast AI Studio 9.
I’ve been looking at 9. If it’s significantly better I’ll post a review.
Well is doesn't make sense to use 64Bit-Output, when the scanner only delivers 48Bit. Most likely 24Bit would be enough
I never had bad colours with Vuescan...
So sorry I didn't see your post before now. The 64 bit output includes the 48 Bit color info plus 16 Bit infrared channel which holds the dust and scratch information which the HDR process eliminates when processing.
I'm new to scanning, and bought Vuescan to digitise my old photos. I'm a bit confused about the process in this video, so must be missing something... I take RAW images in my camera, import them to Lightroom, process that RAW file and THEN export as tiff/jpg etc. I expected to see you create the RAW files (as you did) but then I wonder why you reimport the raw file into vuescan to do colour work, then send the jpg to Lightroom where you have lost most of that RAW data? As I say, I am new to scanning, so any I may be missing something. I'd be grateful for any pointers.
I just use Lightroom for organization of my photo library. I do the scanning and color work on Vuescan or Silverfast. Once the color adjustments are done, I save as jpeg because of the smaller file size. If I were starting with a jpeg then there would be less latitude in how much I could adjust the color. That’s why I do all of the adjustments in Raw and then save as jpeg later since I won’t be doing any more adjusting.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel Hi I love your videos and all the information you provide, I am looking to start scanning my own 35mm film, would you recommend Vue Scan or Silverfast for this RAW process? I want to get the most out of my photos.
have you ever used negative lab pro? what’s your opinion on it
I’ve never heard of Negative Lab Pro but after watching their video it looks like an awesome app. While it’s a little pricey for a plug-in, it’s certainly a lot cheaper than Silverfast especially if you don’t need the additional capabilities in SF and just want to process film frames. I’m definitely going to download the 12 shot trial just to see if I like it. It’s good to see new products entering the film photography world!
@@FilmPhotographyChannel I´ve checked out NLP, it´s a wonderful product too. I dont know how it handles SilverFast HDR´s but the newest version is made for Vuescan Raw dng files or dslr scans.
I use SilverFast AI and you don’t need two apps to scan to RAW. Maybe I misunderstood you?
Maybe. You need Ai or (I think) SE Plus to scan the Raw file. They call it HDRi. Then to open the HDRi file which should look like a film negative you need SF HDR. This file should have the infrared channel as well as the RGB channels.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel yes I have AI and I scan black and white 4x5 negatives at 16bit to a DNG file. I then open in LightRoom or Photoshop.
It should be 32 bit HDRi raw for B&W. The small i takes in to account the infrared channel for scratch and dust removal. With B&W film infrared can be sketchy. I covered it in the video.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel With black and white you’re not getting anything more by choosing more than 16bit. No need for infrared either as it doesn’t work with B&W negs.
I feel like you and Ken Rockwell should do a podcast.
You two seem to be cut from the same cloth with respect to your photographic sensibilities and knowledge. Maybe a pipedream, but one can hope!
Keep up the great work.
Lol, I should be so lucky. Thanks for chiming in. You know what? I’m going to ask him to do just that but only after I build up my subscriber base on my podcast channel. Thanks for the input.
Why would you ever suggest someone getting rid of their film?
I think the point is more that film gets damaged or fades if not stored properly. The archive “Real Raw” process safeguards against lost or damaged film.
@@FilmPhotographyChannel Maintaining your film properly safeguards against damage. I just couldn't ever agree with someone saying it's a good idea to throw them in the trash. If having a digital copy is more important than the film negative then you should just shoot digital.
To be clear, I’m not promoting throwing away film negatives. The point of my statement is to say that you technically could throw it away since you have a digital archive. I’m not saying you should.
Oh man...
How come people take things so literally these days...
Why are you confusing tif with RAW?
Raw files for film scans are either TIFFs or DNG. There’s no proprietary format since there’s no digital sensor. Since these type of files hold all of the color channel and infrared channel data they are the closest thing to raw in the film world.
Silverfast price gouges its users. You need a separate "Licence" for every device that you wish to use it on. No discounts are available.
Vuescan can be used on multiple devices.
That’s true but when I changed scanners I called them and they gave me a new license for the new scanner. They actually did that for me a few times since I bought a scanner and returned it. I have two scanners at home now and they have me a serial for each without any charge. I’ve found them extremely helpful with tech support issues in the past also. Give them a call.