American Reacts to Loyalist Teenagers and Their Northern Irish Identity
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2023
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In this video I react to how today's loyalist teenagers see their Northern Irish identity. This is a really interesting topic, but I'm left wondering what values and freedoms they currently have in Northern Ireland that they feel they would no longer have if Ireland became reunified. I definitely look forward to exploring this topic more.
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Good luck on this one, you'll need it lol.
I's a fight over national identity. Most protestants are descended from Scottish and English settlers brought over by British landowners to displace native Irish who weren't seen as loyal to the crown. The settler's were afforded privileges and there was widespread discrimination against Irish Catholics in employment, housing, policing and voting well into latter half of the 20th century.
In my view this idea that some people in the protestant unionist community have that the catholics get their way is just the fact that catholics are no longer treated as second class citizens.
Of course the daily life of a working class Protestant and Catholic are basically the same. But it's been in the interest of the wealthy protestant elite to keep working class protesters beholden to the believe that a United Ireland is a threat to their culture. Because they're trying to protect the vestiges of the unearned advantages they've had for several hundred years.
Great roundup
Ai Facts and your right about the protestants being ethnically Scottish and some English, my great grandad was Northern Irish and came from there but when I did my ancestry dna test there was no Irish ethnicity just 19% Scottish instead, there is definitely also a ethnic divide as well as religious
Wasn't 700 years the Planters or Scottish and English colonists have been in Ireland for 300+ years.
@@BrianBorumaMacCennetig367 several not seven
Hi Steve. I would've thought the previous content you've reacted to might have illuminated that this is not simply a religious conflict or divide. Today, it's more socio-cultural-political. While religion played a pivotal role in the history, it is largely a proxy at this point: If you're Catholic, you're more likely to be a nationalist (in favour of Irish reunification). If you're Protestant, you're more likely to be a unionist (in favour of maintaining the union with Britain). The 'extreme' or paramilitary versions of these are republicans and loyalists, respectively. Having said all that, those lines have been blurred somewhat in the younger generations, many of whom are weary of such identity politics.
Last year, for the first time in its 100 year history, two things happened in Northern Ireland:
1. Catholics outnumbered Protestants.
2. Sinn Féin ("We Ourselves"), a nationalist party, won the balance of power in government.
NI was specifically designed so that those things would never happen; in the words of Edward Carson, it would be "a Protestant state for a Protestant people". The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 holds that if there is a public mandate among the people of NI for Irish reunification, they would vote. If carried, the Republic would vote. If carried, NI would leave the UK and rejoin with the rest of Ireland. Many believe that eventuality is not a matter of if, but when. And many more believe Brexit may have accelerated it by a few years, if not decades.
I'd recommend watching more videos on NI's history, as confusing and as complicated as it is.
@@julialinden7254 Thank you
This is very well said.
100% Sam is correct! You really do need to watch more documentarys, understanding N.Ireland you must have knowledge of its History! Extremely Complexed comes to mind..... but why is there such a divide? Well,Ask yourself this question!..why do the USA celebrate Their independence day? Its as simple as that!.....the republicans (Catholic community)wish for their Ireland to be a united state, equality and 1 Nation free from British rule!..the conservatives(protestant community) wish to remain British, Dominant,within the united Kindom! inbetween the devided you get bitterness,often hatred,& a genuine Fear of a change....its a hell of a lot better since the Good Friday agreement🤝 but its policies still remain the Same!
Well said but one point should be made.
Sinn Fein are Nationalists only in the sense that want to unify Ireland as a nation.
But they are actually Marxists. They are left wing radicals and actually support globalism and internationalism. They consider themselves allies of Cuba and other communist states.
They are not actually nationalists at all.
#1 was always going to happen, due to Catholicism's rules about birth control. When I worked in Omagh in the 90s, there were 2 protestant secondary schools - but seven catholic ones.
In its really simplistic form to try and get you understanding where these kids were coming from based on my limited knowledge, imagine being brought up in New York State as an American and then finding out that New York was going to be absorbed into Canada. Now I know this is a very simplistic analogy and not the same for lots of reasons but it is just to give you a sense that these kids identify as British and the idea of being absorbed into the Republic of Ireland would seem to them like being ruled by a foreign state and the fears that this brings. Conversely the republicans of Northern Ireland have the same feeling about being ruled by the UK. There is a lot of history behind why both sides feel and identify the way they do and it is all wrapped in a lot of history as well as religion and politics but I think at this videos core it was simply about how these young people identify and feel.
Feel that North Irish people Should Start believe in Northern Ireland and not Who be Ruled by for have a unique place Free Trade with UK and EU so Why Not Start Care about North Ireland instead for If be Ruled by London UK or Ireland why not Be Ruled by North Ireland in my mind Northern Ireland been a own place for so long time that Has it Owns Ways and Seem Better For Everyone live in Northern Ireland Start Instead for Aggressions against Eachother for Who's Side be on Start be on You're Own Side in that Northern Ireland side for if Ever Get Peace on Northern Irish Ground Are Solution Be North Ireland Unite around in that Both Side get Something a Own Micro nation like Monaco , Lichenstein and other actually smaller micro nations inside EU exist so why Are Not That You're Solution Stop fight Eachother and Start Think About Join Northern Ireland for Get a Best of 2 Worlds and Can You all Find Peace in Be North Ireland Promise Both EU ,USA and UK will Given you that for if put an End of Trouble are All Go For that and Those Bennifit are Northern Ireland and can get you're Northern Irish Way instead for Be Ruled by UK or Ireland For Not se a Solution fight witch side be on for are no end in do that End if start Go together for be Northern Ireland so Be you're self are Not That a better Solution than fight over Who rule over you are Rule over you're self 🤔
This is a pretty fair explanation..
Without a greater understanding of the whole situation, this video seems illogical and offers nothing in true context as to why these feelings/thoughts are truly present..on either side of that divide here..
The funny thing is that they are being ruled by a foreign government - London, England.
@@gerardflynn7382 Well did you even bother to read the comments? My point was exactly that one side feels like it's being ruled by a foreign power whereas the opposite side would feel like they were being ruled by a foreign power if The Republic of Ireland was in charge. Rather than being objective to both sides you clearly take a side in this.
There are parts of Northern Ireland that have walls separating Catholic and Protestant communities. In Belfast, one wall is over 45ft tall. That's 3 times higher than the Berlin wall.
its not the uk v ireland. its religious nonsence. catholic v protestant.a problem that needs consigned to the dark ages, madness in the extreme.
The Peace Wall on Cupar Avenue in Belfast is fascinating - I was there very recently.
Remnants of The Troubles. Not something that is really relevant today
@@wallythewondercorncake8657unfortunately that's not true.. The majority of those walls were erected after the signing of the so called Good Friday Settlement between the British Government and terrorist scum on both sides of a political divide here..
While they reached an agreement that suited the South, it done nothing to remove the hatred that has been bred between either faction.. Those walls every bit as necessary today as they were when first erected..
@@wallythewondercorncake8657Not relevant? You haven't lived there.
loyalist are British and want to be part of the UK...nationalist are Irish and want a united Ireland and this is what the troubles were all about
Luckily the immigrants are taking over.😅
Not quite as simple as that. The troubles arose due to the social inequalities at the time. Ironic that todays Unionists feel that Nationalists are getting everything and they're getting nothing - which is far from the truth - as pre 1970, it was very much the other way round, and very evident. Paramilitaries were not initially involved. Once they were, the IRA split. There was the OIRA, who were politically motivated, and the PIRA, who became the predominant organisation. They saw the Troubles as an opportunity to achieve a united Ireland and attempted to achieve it.
@@MrBollocks10 Their not this is nonsense cooked up by far right lunatics.
She was saying young protestants in the north are more progressive than the protestant political parties on social issues. The main unionist (protestant party) is the DUP, a strict conservative Christian party. Many unionists vote for it because they think it might be the strongest voice to protect the union with Britain. But they don't necessarily agree with it's views on gay marriage or abortion. The commentator was saying that this risks young unionists coming to terms with a United Ireland in order to achieve civil rights like gay marriage and abortion rights. (Both of these things are now legal in Northern Ireland though, which is another story in itself).
Steve, if you had asked me 30 years ago which was more conservative. I would have said the Republic of Ireland. But in recent decades Ireland has transformed itself into a much more progressive country, both socially and economically. For example abortion is legal in the republic but in the North, until recently same sex marriage were banned in Northern Ireland but has been legal for some years in the Republic, and LGBTQ discrimination appears to be much more prevalent in Northern Ireland. The Republic is also becoming much more secular.
The Republic has sold it's soul to Brussels unfortunately. Though I'm in favour of abortion & gay marriage & dispise our 💩 kicking, bible thumping ministers. I'm glad someone is pushing back against these globalist goals & trying to protect N.I culture(s). The last thing we want here, is to be turned into another London, Birmingham, Bradford, Dublin etc.. 3 times Westminster has tried forcing a load of unvetted immigrants on us. But the word went out to every housing estate. They weren't welcome. And every private landlord was warned, if you like your safety & your properties, you will only rent to locals. And Westminster had to backtrack every time & send them to England & Scotland. We love our children & our culture(s) It has nothing to do with racism. Even though they love throwing that ole chestnut out. (To smiling faces & deaf ears) We've never had a grooming gang & don't plan to start.
Yeah, but what about immigration down South?
goodness is easily hijacked in ignorant communities
One of the biggest fears is that they are afraid they will be treated the way the Catholics were treated
That's pure shite.
@@karenshields1974 lol catholics didn’t have the vote. Didn’t have rights to housing nor jobs. Yet since the Good Friday agreement Catholic go to university at a higher number. The reality is if the country becomes unified, no mistreatment of protestants or any other faith
It's not a religious issue, it's cultural.
Its not culture. Its because the British invaded Ireland and stole our land and purposely implanted British people into Ireland to create a tension.
You negate that the statlet/6 counties/part of a province was founded on the oppression of Catholics and still is. I think with the protestants fear is that they’ll be treated the way the Catholics were treated.
Northern Ireland is a very very confusing and complex country
I’ve lived in Belfast my whole life and I was lucky enough to be born 1 year after the Good Friday agreement was signed,
The troubles were a time in Northern Ireland that spawned over 30 years where people on both sides were killed for their religion, political affiliation or just because an “eye for an eye” in random killings
I’m a Protestant and I can tell you that’s it true that most Protestants believe that if an United ireland should happen then their culture would be taken away from them (such as the 12th of July and bonfire night where they celebrate their victory over king James at the battle of the boyne in 1690 basically a Protestant had removed a catholic king from power)
I personally don’t share these views I was adopted at an early age and raised by a catholic family who still had the respect to take me to parades and bonfires for years until I made my own decision to not go anymore I myself have my own views (I was also taught the history of “the other side”)
if a United Ireland happened tomorrow it would affect a lot of people in Northern Ireland both catholic and Protestant and considering Northern Irelands history I would not be surprised to see the troubles start up again….unfortunately as no one wants that
What people from Northern Ireland now need to understand is that somewhere in your family tree whether you like it or not (you have people in your family tree that are Protestant/catholic, and 2 you are two flavors of the same religion)
If we don't take away the culture of Muslims when they arrive here, why would we bother trying to take yours? Sounds exhausting and pointless as no one here cares about other people's cultures as long as you don't interrupt the sess.
There are lots of English people living in Southern Ireland that celebrate Bonfire Night. I think Ireland is slowly entering the 20th/21st century, and yeah, that wasn't a typo😂😊
@@jaynedrayton9511 idk what bonfires your attending down south but they are certainly not the same ones that are celebrated by Protestants up north considering they celebrate the defeat of a catholic king😅, your probably talking about the interment bonfire where Catholics/ Irish celebrate the end of interment that the British enforced during the troubles were everyone could be searched and put in prison with basically no reason or evidence
@@stevied1294 no, and I've replied to the wrong thread about Guy Fawkes nights🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 whoops lol
Northern Ireland is not a country.
Hi Steve great vid, this is the sort of video I was saying you should watch because it'll allow you more understanding of the lives in the UK and Ireland. You asked why the youths would find it any different from being in the UK or if unification made one Ireland, the answer lies in the same zone as...you're Canadian tomorrow Steve, although its an amazing country and nationality I'm sure you'd say "no, I'm a yank still", someone's identity. 😊
Good point.
I was gonna say Mexican instead of Canadian.
@@mojojojo11811 Yes, Mexico would be more realistic.
@Sophie.S.. Maybe in terms of who actually had the land first but no, it would be much more like Canada.
The US and Canada are very close in terms of culture, as is NI and the Republic.
The problem is people have been taught to fear the South and if you asked any one of them what values do you hold that southerners don't hold, they wouldn't be able to answer you.
I am from Tipperary in the South of the Island of Ireland.
I understand the fears that the Loyalist culture have when considering a United Ireland. I am told that many Unionist/Protestant farmers have long feared that their lands would be sized and redistributed and that Loyalists fear that their culture would be squashed. There has long been a lot of fear mongering around these points.
I can tell you that a (large) majority of people from the southern areas of Ireland would never allow this to happen and that they would also be very tolerant and understanding of the Loyalist's communities desire to preserve their culture and traditions. Also the Catholic church do not have even 5% of the power that they once held in the south...thank fux!
But I am not sure that they trust this to be the case.
A United Ireland appeals to me as much as I presume the ROI rejoining the UK
Oh dear, you had to go there.
Never a good idea to open this can of worms.
Nothing good ever comes of it , and you will never truly understand the situation because no one really understands it.
If you attempt to identify with either side your wrong,
If you try and deny either side your wrong.
This is one of those matters best left alone by anyone outside of it, interference by outsiders to Ireland only ever causes trouble.
lol I agree.
Very simplistic explanation. Protestants/Loyalists are currently the majority in N.I., and have been since the partition of the Island. Catholics/Republicans have been and were, up to 20 years ago treated as second class citizens, unable to get government jobs and were segregated, poor housing, no government representation. The Troubles were basically the explosive result of Catholic civil rights campaigns/marches that were met with deadly violence from the UK government. If the Island were unified, Protestants would overnight become a tiny minority and they are worried that they will become the second class citizens. As for loyalists being more progressive. The opposite is true The Catholic Republic of Ireland have been far more progressive than the Protestant North. The South voted by referendum to have Gay Marriage (2015) and the right to Abortion (2019), The North Loyalist's however have repeatedly refused to allow debate on these issues, and were eventually forced by the UK government to fall inline with UK laws over these. (Abortion in 2022 and Gay Marriage in 2020). Much to the annoyance of the Loyalist politicians.
Protestants/loyalists are not currently the Majority look up the results of 2021 census .Good comment you are just slightly out of date in terms of the demographics.
@@gallowglass2630 Which would explain the even more heightened paranoia.
I'm reading.
pretty cool to see you reacting to this from my home country, this first shot is my hometown
Hiya Steve I think you are walking into a minefield, charged with High emotion, explaining the situation is as hard as coming up with a correct solution. With two sides so far apart getting them to a compromise conclusion is more faith then logic.
Good luck with this one, you're going to need it
That is exactly how I felt when I saw the post. 'OMG Steve, you don't grasp the difference between Fanny in English and Fanny in American, please Do not Go Here! This is not for a casual vlog. Go Away, educate yourself, and come back in about a century. And you will still be none the wiser' This is something that has been going on for centuries, we have lived with it, both English and Irish and we are no nearer understanding it or solving it.
there are three fucking sides. one side, the other and one that wants nothing to do with you all
It’s not just a religious divide, it’s a cultural and political divide too, the divide is mostly in working class communities. Catholics identify as Irish Nationalists (moderates) or Irish Republicans (extremists) and Protestants identify as British Unionists (moderates) or British Loyalists (extremists).
What does working class mean. Most people work. 🤔
@@pfauniversal1890 There’s generally 4 classes in the UK, lower-class are the homeless or long term unemployed, working-class are people with non-skilled jobs and low salaries, middle-class are people with skilled jobs and good salaries, and upper-class are the wealthy
This dispute dates back to the days of Oliver Cromwell. At that time Catholics were being persecuted throughout Britain. In Northern Ireland, Catholics were being thrown out of their homes and Protestants were given these properties. A lot of bad things happened hundreds of years ago but some societies seem incapable of moving on. The Irish Republic has been slow to accept things like abortion and gay marriage but it is much less conservative than it was say 50 or 60 years ago.
Ye no 😂😂
Bonfires represent the beacons that were lit in 1690 along the coast to guide in King William III ships into Ulster to fight Catholic King James II & take the British Crown. King William & his wife, Princess Mary (King Charles I daughter) was invited by British nobles & public to take the crown off Catholic King James II.
Did they put up posters of the pope and so on that time also
@@donalbarry8790 I wasn't there. Doubt it
The odd thing is the UK and Ireland are pretty much the same as far as culture is concerned. Northern Ireland is a whole separate thing with different values and cultures. When these kids say British values they mean NI values.
Should start Think in Northern Ireland be a own part EU has smaller micro states Monaco Lichenstein inside EU so why are not Solution be you're own Part in This so See a Solution in Both side Start Belove in be Northern Irish ways and have a Unique Place there Free trade to EU and UK so why be Ruled by London UK or Ireland when can Be you're own Place Not see a solution in Fight over with side Be on so why not Be on You're Own Northern Ireland side and Start Unite Northern Irish people in be about North Ireland for That is a solution there both side not have nothing fight over anymore for Not Chose Any Otver side than You're Own Side North Ireland that is a solution for both side be about both side be in Northern Ireland Are That not a better Solution than What have today END The TROUBLE for Be you're own Micro nation instead are almost that today anyway can Have what have today but be you're Own Parlament decide over North Ireland in That Not see How Ireland or UK and USA are against that for End Trouble will be Best solution for everyone and Be Best Solution for North Irish people for Never End Trouble if fight be who ruler be over NI are Solution if Ruled you're self that give both part a Real Solution for Then are you're Own Place Care about instead for who be Ruled by ❓🤔
North Ireland has been a own place for so long so maybe better it stays as a own place instead for chose side chose You're Own Side 🤔
I think one cannot actually understand the links and strong feelings one has about unions and bonds of their homeland unless it’s something you are brought up in. When this boy is saying British values is why he wants to have the Union, this is an example of him being denied his feelings and identity and has been made to quantify and very complex feeling of identity with something someone else deems worthy.
The same way an Irish republican has such strong feelings of being Irish the same goes for northern irish British Protestants. Just is the same for Palestinians. Nationhood and identify carry so much emotion that it’s hard to quantify with words. Yet that is the reality for alot of Protestant youth. I would say there is stigma in going to the bands in this mixed society and it’s that judgement that scares alot of people. Because I’ve been taught growing up that people have changed we are moving forward. But then discussing with alot of cross community friends that resent and hatred is still being taught.
A lot of work still needs to be done in order for each side to understand each other but of course these things take time.
I live in NI and come from a protestant background, but I'm not religious. It's all about identity. Protestants are generally unionists/loyalists and catholics are generally nationalists/republicans. As others have said, the idea of a united Ireland to me is like someone telling you that tomorrow, Canada or Mexico are taking over. Even if you have similar values, you're still an American to your very core. It's a deep feeling about your identity and your home. I don't have an issue with Catholicism or the ROI as a country, but it's just not who I am. I'm British, and the union flag is mine. If someone called me Irish rather than British, I would correct them. God save the king is my national anthem. The king is my head of state. I don't speak Irish or play Irish sports etc. and I don't really want to - I don't perceive them to be part of my culture. I celebrate the twelfth of July and go to band parades and bonfires. I associate far more with British culture, heritage, values, sporting achievements and history. I would not feel at home in a united Ireland- the ROI is not my nation.
A catholic/nationalist/republican will feel the exact opposite.
Both of these identities have to coexist in very close proximity to each other. It's extremely intense on both sides when the future of your country and identity is at stake.
thats the protestant perspective, no offense but Im from a catholic background, atheist now and very much consider myself irish and i tend to find protestant kids werent taught about irish history in school, my gf is protestant and its insane how little she or her family knows. I have an irish name and have family down south. The troubles were a result of the irish catholic civil rights movement, irish catholics were fighting for equal treatment, equal righs to education, after being oppressed to the point of ethnic cleansing by the british less than a centuary earlier, it wasnt about identity it was about rights to be irish and practise our culture and history and religion and heratage during a period of british occupation and oppression. I like a significant amount in the north would prefer to be a united ireland.
your ancestors took over part of my country. How can you think it is yours? its in the name......... hint, its got Ireland in it. It is nothing like America being taken over by Canada. Its more like giving America back to the native Americans actually.
Thats very sad that your family invaded Ireland from Britain and you continue to carry out their work of dividing Ireland to this day. If you like Britain so much, why dont you go back?
I think the best way to look at it for an American is America and Mexico would America give up Texas to Mexico would the people of Texas be happy to become Mexican
Awful comparison.
@@AFVEH well maybe but how else would you explain it to an American
@@declanddyer9701 Northern Irish are Irish, Texans aren't Mexican. I'd say Puerto Rico would be a better comparison. It's part of the US, the population is Hispanic, they were forcefully taken from the Spanish and the local population is divided between those who wanna be American, those who wanna be part of Spain again and those who want independence. I think that's a more accurate example.
@@AFVEH fair enough but then again I don't know America that well thanks for getting back to me
A better comparison is imagine if the Native Americans wanted their territory back and were the majority.
You need to read 'Making Sense of the Troubles: A History of the Northern Ireland Conflict' by David McKittrick and David McVea to even start understanding Northern Ireland
I’m actually shocked everytime how Americans can’t wrap their heads round the basics of this issue,obviously there’s a lot more to it but how can they not understand some people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the U.K. and some people want to ne part of Ireland? I’ve spoke to Americans over there that seem to think the whole of Ireland are being held captive by the British and are shocked when I say still more northern Irish want to stay than don’t and it’s not black and white and there’s no easy answer,they just say give it back and there’s no issues 😂
More want to stay than don't,well we don't really know anymore things are changing for example most of the young people are for an united ireland though not by much .Even in the south a vote could go either way mostly on economic and tax issues.
@@gallowglass2630 like I said I was trying to simplify it,most Americans are under the impression it’s a simple solution all people on that island want to unify Ireland that’s all I’m meaning,either way people won’t be happy
How to explai the extent of the divide in a YT comment....?
Historically, the island of Ireland was Catholic (as was most of the Christian world). The protestants in Northern Ireland are (generally) descended from the (Protestant) British who invaded and took over Ireland over centuries. So the communities who look to the UK for their heritage - the Unionist, or Loyalist communities - tend to be Protestant, whereas the Nationalists who look to the rest of Ireland for their heritage tend to be Catholic.
Historically, it is the protestant loyalists who have been in control, and had all the power, whereas the catholic nationalists have been kept out of all areas ofpower - for example the police force was almost completely protestant/ loyalist, which caused a lot of resentment and frustration.
The nub of the Good Friday Agreement was to ensure that power was shared between the two communities.
The fear the loyalits have about a united Ireland is that power sharing will go, and they will be the ones whose community is railroaded by the catholic majority. A lot of their 'traditions' are deeply resented by the Catholics/ Nationalists - the 'Marching season' in summer commemorates the protestant victory over catholics in the 17th Century - and the Orangemen who march aren't exactly subtle about that!
Brilliant thanks 👍
As a English man I am as much in the dark as you are, and I am old enough to remember all about the troubled both in this county and in Ireland, when the bombs went off in fact they almost killed Margaret Thatcher at one point, I do not think it is all about religion although they did have to have a steel fence dividing some neighbourhoods, Ireland seems to be much more religious than the Uk, growing up in the 1950th every child here in England had to attend Sunday school now it is almost unheard of,
man watch some videos, the toubles began as a result of the irish civil rights movements, catholics were massively mistreated in the north rights for catholic irish were what was being fought for, we didnt have the same rights to education, right to practise religion etc This coming off the back of 800 years of english oppression and the english plantations where irish people were kicked off their land, murdered, imprisions, sold into indentured servitude then during the famine were starved. Look into the protestant soup kitchen poisioning during the famine and what british rules like Travellion had to say about the irish as an exmple of the atrocities, literally ethnic cleansing.
Now imagine less than 100 years of this oppression those who support the crown want to march through catholic areas and people wonder why they arent happy.
To give some historical background Google the Partition of Ireland. NI voted to remain in the UK, however, the Catholics already living there wanted to be part of a unified Ireland. Living in the States now I am liking it a bit to the situation after the civil war where Slave owners didn't want to abide by Northen values and rules. Even after all these years there's people in the south that would like to go back to pre-civil war times.
NI didn't vote to remain in the UK ,because it did not exist it had to be created with borders drawn that would have a permanent Protestant/unionist majority .The mistake they made was they included to many catholic/nationalist majority counties and now catholics outnumber protestants .
@@gallowglass2630 Sorry I wasn't clear after Partition they voted to remain with Britian in the 1918 general election.
@@rowanrollo9226 Ireland voted overwhelmingly for the independence seeking Sinn Fein party though (69.5% of seats), there was no notion of Northern Ireland back 1918. Clinging on to territory by simply arming one ethnic group to the teeth drawing a line around the areas that voted unionist (with a good chunk of Irish Catholics and farmland thrown in) was a recipe for an apartheid state.
@@rowanrollo9226that was a general election not a vote on the status of Protestants in Ireland. Also I note how DUP say the. Voice of the majority must be respected when it comes to Brexit as , the Northern Ireland voted against leaving the EU whilst the UK narrowly voted for it, UT the voice of the majority of the whole island of Ireland was ignored in 1918. Instead a gerrymandered Protestant statelet was created.
Hello I live in the south of Ireland I have protestant and Catholic friends we all see ourselves as Irish .. N Ireland is different the 2 religions have more to do with identity catholic s identify as Irish .. protestant as British .. since the GFA both could live as both but brexit really through a wrench into the peace process
Thank you for your in put. The English need to hear more from the Irish people not the news or politicians.
@@taniaclark6970 100%
@@taniaclark6970 preach.
My dad lives in an assisted living facility in England for people with health issues. He was born near Glasgow in the 50s and was in the British army.
He was paired with a support worker closer to his age, and the company making the decision chose a guy from Belfast, who was a teenager during the Troubles in 60s or 70s.
The logic used by the care company was, and I quote "well, they're both Celts".
Luckily, my dad doesn't care about that sorta thing, but the total lack of any sort of awareness in the process was, to me, a Scottish Glaswegian, astounding.
They might be British in England, but there's definitely a lack of awareness about these things there.
Brexit was proof of that
You live in the republic of Ireland no such place as southern Ireland
The loyalist bit comes from being members of the Loyal Orange Order or Association, which is a Protestant organisation.
The values may not be that different from the outside. The same could be said for the USA and Canada but I think Canadians would resist becoming part of the USA!
This is an incredibly complex and devisive subject. There is an incredible amount of history behind it. It would probably be best to watch some videos and read some articles. It will no doubt help with the understanding of your Irish heritage.
Most people in the UK struggle to understand this too. Unless generations of people have grown up with such violence and division , knowing the other side would and kill the other. It’s a very hard cultural thing to shift. Religion elsewhere in the Uk doesn’t matter at all.
We have all types of religion in England.
@@taniaclark6970 of course we do but I don’t feel social and cultural totally distanced because I have a Muslim Hindi or catholic neighbour in the same way Catholics and Protestants have done in Northern Ireland. It means no odds to my life at all.
If you think its about religion you really don't understand it.
@@gallowglass2630 If they were all same religion historical wouldn’t be same differences. Yes power, Goverment , Brexit all add oil on the water. But you can’t look at the issues in Ireland without religion in the last few century. I’m prepared to be convinced otherwise. Please explain the floor is yours.
I'm 60 and grew up with the bombings still struggle to understand it but learn a little with every year. At least I try.
You really need to do some reading on the history - it’s really complicated
I’m probably not a valid voice as I’m English, but I think it’s identity. Imagine Canada and America becoming one nation. You both have matching dreams. Then you find out the new country will be called Canada and the government will be in Ottawa and you would have to start being paid in the Canadian dollar. You’d be pretty p***ed. that’s the fear for them, whether justified or not. It’s hard to ignore fear
But it was irish first, they were thrown off there land by British settlers, it is Ireland not England or Scotland
It's more like if the native Americans became the majority and wanted their land back.
One difference you will notice is that in Belfast all the cops are armed whereas they will not be in Dublin.
They are British citizens and want to stay that way.that structure being built in the background is a huge bonfire typical of that area .if you go to Belfast you will notice a huge wall separating the two communities .you understand civil war don't you ? You had one in the US .
One strange fact is that abortion is allowed in Republic of Ireland and UK but not Northern Ireland
Not anymore it changed a good few years ago
@@gallowglass2630
I think it changed because Westminster pushed it through while the NI executive wasn't functioning. It wasn't a choice by NI as far as I am aware.
@@gallowglass2630 you are right! I must have missed that.
As someone from the South of the Country, It was always my understanding that Catholics up North were fed up as being second class citizens. All the jobs were given to Protestants, all things considered, hence the rise up and revolting troubles. I feel that If there was a United Ireland that Protestants might feel this might be the reverse situation. However, Religion is not the main factor anymore and maybe never was. The main factor is that Unionists want to be GOVERNED by London and Republicans want a United Ireland Governed by Dublin. This is my simplified version of what I understand anyway, and I can be corrected or agreed with.
There are now more Catholics than Protestants living in Northern Ireland, according to the most recent national census data, with a 42.3 percent share of Catholics to 30.5 percent Protestants, and a low 8.2 percent of inhabitants identifying as non-Christian religious.
This is in contrast to when the country was first formed back in 1921. Intended to be a Protestant majority nation, six counties had been partitioned from Ireland, based on religious data from the 1911 census. Then, 34.4 percent of what would be Northern Ireland was Catholic and 61.4 percent was Protestant, a ratio of 1:2.
Just over 100 years later, the switch has finally happened, which according to The Guardian was anticipated due to Catholic birth rates being higher.
Don’t t worry, most people in GB don’t understand it either, even if we created this mess. I do think it’s a shame NI was ever created. The Protestant community would now be a happy part of one of the most successful countries in the world - the Republic of Ireland.
Or, they'd be dead or driven out. As happened to my Protestant Southern Irish family in 1919, when their house (in Co Cork) was set alight around them. Part of an Irish clan that dates back to at least Norman times.
@@wessexdruid7598 there are plenty of Protestant families in the Republic. 1919 is 103 years ago. Any initial awfulness such as that you describe would have possibly meant that the decades of the Troubles, deaths, injustice, segregation would never have happened. We will never know will we? But I can’t imagine it would have been worse in the medium and long term.
5:05 The entire culture would change. The flag, national anthem, laws, institutions, education, healthcare & much, much more. It'd be like waking up to find the US is now Canadian territory, to make a crude analogy.
But isn't that what happened in the north in the first place, it's irish not British
People consider the divide to be religious and cultural, which is not wrong. But at root, it is racial.
If a tribe invades the territory of another and forcefully settles it, the natives will hardly be up in arms over the culture and philosophical outlook of the invaders. A person in the north can identify as atheist, but that would mean nothing to the fundamentalists of the other group. The mother and father of all true politics is blood.
I have a head ache now Steve.
Loyalists means to be loyal to the crown
What crown? What culture The Dutch wee fella that ran away to IRELAND , f*ck all to do with anything other than pure sectarianism! Is as an tuaisceart mé ach labhraím mo theanga féin gach lá mo chara! Tá mé i mo chónaí i sasana cibé ar bith! 🇮🇪🇮🇪💚💚
What really changes for the USA if Canada takes over and the govt. is not your own and is from a different culture? Empathy comes from putting yourself in a similar situation.
Ask the Mexicans in California and Texas. What they think.
terrible analogy
Imagine what texans would say if mexico demanded texas back?
Are there Mexicans dating back from time of war with US who want to be part of Texas? It’s a completely different situation.
Awful analogy more like imagine if the native Americans wanted their territory back and were the majority.
They considered themselves British because they are planters from Scotland
Steve for some it's just National Identity. How would you feel if tomorrow you were being told you're no longer part of USA and were devolving to another Nation of Native Americans. Culturally very similar but with some small differences.
While I get what you're saying about huge similarities, sometimes it's the simplest of things that people on the outside forget.
Got a point there.
Man... We really messed up Northern Ireland... sorry as an Englishman lol.
🤓
What are you sorry for? Did you personally do all these things?
A huge number of the Northern Irish population are descended from Scots who emigrated there at a time when Scotland was a sovereign state so they have to take a share of the responsibility too. If Scotland ever achieves independence, I hope it won't just be able to wash its hands of Northern Ireland.
@@MrBulky992 and between about 400 AD and 800 AD, Irish colonialists gradually spread out across the whole of central and northern Scotland, replacing or absorbing the indigenous people and killing off their language.
@@lukespooky Yes, very true.
I think what you're missing are the Loyalist cultural traditions of July 12; triumphantly celebrating the pivotal victory of the Protestant William of Orange at the Battle of the Boyne which sealed the takeover of Ireland by the British. These traditions include bonfires, marching and parading the King's highway with pipe bands and Orange Order marchers including into Catholic areas to show they have the freedom to go where they want. The Catholic indigenous Irish people can't leave their homes that day from all the blocked streets and until recently received much abuse from paraders, and bottle throwing. Stopping them from marching Catholic areas has often caused riots.
Now if Ireland united, it would no longer be the King's roads. What rights would the Loyalists have to continue abusive traditions ? These would have to be detailed in any unification agreement. As you can see some of those kids in the video have been indoctrinated to hate Irish Catholics from such a young age.
Just remember, that hate didn't come from nothing. It was always two-way. It pre-dates the Battle of the Boyne by centuries.
Loyal to the crown!
Politics + religion = 🤯
You can't understand it just from the news here, what is not broadcast is the peoples point of view, we need to here from the people.
This is not a conflict just about religion, It is about the domination of the loyalist culture and the lack of justice , ie jobs housing etc
This is way too big an issue to be explained in a video and in the comment section
I agree but you can read a bit, little by little more understanding.
Exactly But he is trying.
Somebody invaded a country. That’s it
@@jimjohns9051 No. Now go away and get an education, unless you want to be a plank all your life.
I have noticed that Steve, bless him, like most Americans wants a soundbite answer to everything. So he looks at Vloggers! Now if I, or I suspect you, wanted to know about a subject, our Last source of info would be Vloggers? they can be useful, but basically they are people who have read a Little bit, but want YT fame More. I have seen some that spout utter bollocks, some that give you Their opinion, some who are very good. But at the end of it all, they are some person on YT trying to make a few quid. The Last thing you need is some Vlogger trying to explain NI or Brexit!
Wow! You’re heading into a minefield.
It's not a divide between denominations of Christianity, it's a divide between two ethnicities and religion merely being a way to signify which ethnicity you belong to. The Protestant Loyalists here are loyalist not because there's a doctrine inherent to Protestantism to be loyal to Britain, but because they themselves are British by ancestry, they are the descendants of British settlers during the Ulster Plantation so they're obviously going to feel attached to Britain.
from ni love u vids should watch Feature History - The Troubles, give u a bit of history
If you had treated Catholics equally we wouldn’t be here I grew in Derry and we were treated like crap
Between 1801 and 1922, the island of Ireland belonged to the UK. Irish Catholics naturally resented the fact that English Protestants, in particular, migrated to Ireland and "stole" their land from them and had the upper hand when it came to governing Ireland. Bear in mind that it was against the law to practice Catholicism in the UK until the Catholic Emancipation Act (1829).
There has always been tensions between Roman Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation in the 16th century and which ever side held the power of government had the other side imprisoned and executed.
Even today, Irish Catholics think of Irish Protestants as English invaders, often holding up banners with slogans like "England get out of Ireland". This is definitely anti-Protestant rhetoric.
Loyalists are loyal to the UK. They will mostly be Protestant descendants of English/British ancestors who migrated to Ireland and raised in an entirely different culture to Irish Catholic nationalists.
You don't understand the conflict? You live in North America but in the south in the part that is called "the United States" which is a republic. Canada is also in North America, but is part of the Commonwealth of Nations. King Charles III is Canada's Head of State. Both peoples of the United States and Canada are "North Americans", but you might argue that you are more American than your Canadian counterparts because, at least, the name America appears in your nation's name.
So what if your President decided that Canada shouldn't be a separate nation because it's on the same continent? Didn't the United States invade Canada in 1812? What if the US had won that war? Would Canada have become a part of the USA?
Would you expect the English speaking Canadians to give up their Britishness? Their loyalty to the Crown? The sovereign, not the TV show.
French Canadians wish their part of Canada was separate to the English speaking part.
Didn't the Confederate States fight a war with the Union States in the 1860s to maintain their independence and their different way of life? After all, the northern States had abolished slavery in the 18th century and the southern States were keen to keep those old traditions.
And before that, the USA belonged to the UK and France until the War of Independence (1776).
The unification of nations or the independence of nations came about with war, because one side didn't want to give up what they have.
So why would you expect the Northern Irish to want a unified Ireland and give up their way of life, because that's the impression that I got from you - that you can't understand why they are resisting unification when the Irish of the Republic fought against being a part of the UK, long after 1922.
Are Irish Protestants less Irish than Irish Catholics? Irish is just a nationality. Religion is part of ethnicity as is culture.
Why should Irish Protestants give up their identity?
Canada and USA have similar values but they don't want unification. Ireland and N Ireland has a huge history of religious wars. But the countries are slowly changing and unification is looking more and more likely as religious views die away with the youth being less partisan
It's not about religion and there was never any religious wars, it was simply an English and later British invasion which displaced irish catholics in Ulster with British Protestants from Scotland and Northern England. These Unionists are the descendants of these British settlers which is why they're loyal to Britain
It's similar to the situation to the native Americans. Would you say the native Americans wanting their land back was religious?
I grew up in the Scottish Highlands and the divide between protestants and Catholics, particularly of Irish decent was palpable even there. You get Catholics that won't enter protestants buildings and vice versa. It's a deep cultural mistrust that comes from generations of mistrust and violence. Think Israel/Palestine conflict. These communities are divided. During the troubles they were physically separated by walls etc. You need to imagine you were not only separated by religion but there was a physical wall dividing you from the other religious community that you couldn't cross for fear of violence. Even now these kids are the 1st generation that didn't grow up in violence and with the walls coming down.
If you visit you probably won't notice it unless you are living in the community. However approach any conversation about the troubles with caution as the wounds are raw. A unified Ireland is unlikely.
I also think a big fear on the Unionist side is that they think they will
Be treated the same way Catholics were treated under unionism ..
I would agree with that now a day's the boot is on the other foot.
I am Scottish with
Nothern Ireland ancestry
my family has always been mixed religiously.
All I want is peace for
Nothern Ireland.
Personally I think a completely
Independent Nothern Ireland would be the best solution.
Unionists are generally Protestant and they want maintain the Union with Britain. Loyalists are a subsection of unionism, with more hardcore opinions. Those wanting Irish unification are generally called nationalists and are usually Catholic.
It is very complicated because I don't live there and haven't had anyone talk to me in depth, I couldn't begin to explain it. It would be insulting to them to put a London point of view across. Having said that I take a step back and would let the Northern Irish people explain it to me.
You got it so mixed up at the end don't where to begin.The republic is more socially liberal than the Northern Ireland in terms of the politics anyway ,it is entirely possible and probably is the case that these teenagers don't know that .
The point the anchor as you would call him was making is that there values are probably more in tune with the values of teenagers of the same age than the Politicians they would vote for.
It is identity I am from the republic i regard myself as irish ,there is no way anyone could persuade me to vote to join the UK because that is not my country.Its the same but opposite for these teenagers all there lives they have been thought there british and everything irish is bad,which i hasten to say i was never though that every thing british was bad but its safe to say thats what these kids were thought
I'm reading and learning. You're right when I was growing up in London the bombs made me think everything Irish was bad but there is far more to it. Now I am 60 I know, thank you for your comments.
@@taniaclark6970I have never condoned Terrorism,but what is forgotten about is that an apartheid state operated in NI for 50years where the then minority the catholics were largely denied the vote,because voting rights was based on property and to obtain property you needed a good job which in many cases catholics couldn't get. The British government allowed that to happen,however my own government is not without blame.A documentary was made by irish tv on this discrimination,but was squashed by the irish government,but they are thought it more important to cosy up to the belfast parliament.The IRA didn't just rise from the ground there were a marxist group that took advantage of conditions made by politicians.
@@gallowglass2630 the more I read the deeper the rabbit hole goes.
The Republic has become more socially liberal only very recently. Partly because, thanks to Catholicism, there are so many more younger people.
To be fair, the amount of times you said “I don’t understand” is a perfect example of why we are sick of Americans coming over and telling us how to move forward, with virtually no understanding of how complex it is. Especially Biden.
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@@niclaslindman I don’t even understand what language you’re speaking. And if you’re justifying America throwing money at Northern Ireland as a reason for the public having ignorant views on the troubles, you’re mixing two totally separate issues. If anything, you just proved my point.
He has pretty good knowledge of the conflict to be fair
@@matt-fh6hb Well, Biden has full-blown dementia.
Forget Religion, the division is more along the lines of the North - South cultural divide in the USA.
I'm not actually sure it has that much to do with religion, Steve. To me, it seems to be loyalist to an institutionalised ideal that probably doesn't exist in reality. I mean, the troubles lasted the best part of 30 years - a whole generation - and I think these people probably define themselves by it - and are desperately holding onto that identity because they know no other. To them, if they let go of this, they won't know who they are - and that's much too scary to even contemplate... The vast majority of the UK population doesn't get it any more than you do!
I had a few Protestant (among other religions) friends over the years and their religion never made any difference. They were good and likeable people (apart from 1 who eventually cheated on his wife who was a very good friend of mine).
Catholic and Protestant can generally live in harmony and even in the same house in ROI but in NI it's all out war! (in some places)
My grandmother's family (sisters and parents) were Protestant. They were driven out of Southern Ireland late 1919/early 20 (their house was set on fire, while they were asleep in it).
@@wessexdruid7598 That's awful and unacceptable but it was 100 years ago when things were very different.
Just like now, it's wrong to say he/she......it's ridiculous!
The British reigned over us for 700 years and killed millions of us and forced us to speak English, until the early 20th century.
I have no problem with modern Britain (except for England football fans, why are so many of them trouble making cunts?).
I was raised Catholic in Dublin but by the age of 10 i knew religion was ridiculous.
As far as i know the Protestant religion is very similar to Catholic so why are we at war over religion? It's pathetic.
Sorry to go on a religious rant, i just don't get it
@@wessexdruid7598that was completely different time and just wouldn’t happen nowadays.
@@murpho999The same thing happened in the former Yugoslavia, just this time in front of cameras and reporters. Only then, they called it 'ethnic cleansing'.
Are you aware of the level of sectarian feeling in Northern Ireland, as a result?
Your views which are incorrect:-
1 - there are now more Catholics living in N.Ireland than protestants
2 - the Protestant Unionist Loyalist (PUL) community would tend to be more conservative than the Irish.
*worth noting that Sinn Fein (an Irish nationalist party) are now the biggest party in N.Ireland. The DUP (referred to in the video) are in terminal decline - mostly due to changing demographics in N. Ireland.
When your Country (Ireland) has been occupied by a foreign imperialist invader (Britain) for 800 years and when they were almost beaten out of our country during the “War of Independence “ “the Tan War” 1918-1921 and then held onto 6 of our 32 Counties illegally still occupying them to this day - that’s what Freedom means to the Irish Republicans (anti monarchists). We Irish Republicans want a 32 United Ireland but an inclusive one that provides an equal place for our Unionist/Loyalist/Orange neighbors. That’s a genuine wish - In case you don’t know the Irish tricolor of the green white and Irish represents the green = the nationalist/Irish Republican - the Orange is the unionist/Loyalist and the white is for the dissenter/ everyone in between. The Irish tricolor is the most inclusive flag there is. You must understand the Protestant versus catholic thing is a strategy the British used all over the world to create a an illusion that the problem in a country they invaded and occupied was one of local infighting. Most of the original founders of the United ireland movement were Protestants like The Father of Irish republicanism Theobald Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett and later on the first women to ever be elected to a parliament in the Irish 1918 elections Countess Constance Markieveicz who was elected for Sinn Fein. The British used this divide and conquer tactic all over the world in the Middle East - Shia Muslims against Sunni Muslims, Palestinian Muslims against Israeli Jews, Muslims against Hindis in Pakistan and India, the list goes on especially in Africa but eh main thread is divide a country like in all examples above into different religions where certain sections of the divide leave minorities which then creates sectarianism that distracts from the imperialist takeover and ensuing chaos and the British after raping and plundering the country of all its resources tries to show itself as the peacemaker of the infighting in the troubled “nation”. Hope this provides context for you.
If you look at history,ulster was more against unionism
Northen Ireland has always, (since 1921), lived on a knife-edge with regards to religion and community spirits, due in no small part of the English monarchy! I was brought up in a very staunchly protestant village on the Ards peninsula, and was in the Orange Order for over 12 years of my young life, and I can say that the highly patriotic nature of the British influence in NI is still a pervasive issue! I don't live in NI anymore but I know that if the Brexit "backstop" were to fail and a consensus of reunification happens then I'm afraid that the bloodshed would start up again, not that I condone such actions, in the slightest, but Northern Irish people are VERY reactionary!
The Unionists (who often call themselves 'loyalists') value the union between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. These are mainly protestants who are often attributed to being the heirs to the invading force sent to take over Ireland by Cromwell (between 1649 and 1653). A lot of the animosity between the two sides has its roots from back then with a notable historical point being the Drogheda massacre. While some claim what happened there was in line with typical 17th century warfare others argue that was only because it was in line with the level of violence seen in the rest of the English campaign. This helps to point out the significance of many of the marches - for instance the 'orange order' marches are a repetition of the invading English forces victory march, essentially rubbing in the defeat to the native Catholic Irish (historically this was a very sore spot and a point of contention where it came to the peace process).
The Republicans, pimarily the Catholic population represented by the political party Sinn Fein (who had links to the IRA of 'The Troubles' era before that group disbanded), want to move away from the UK and ideally become part of the Republic of Ireland. The current devolved government structure (with a separate Irish parliament in control of Northern Ireland's day to day affairs) is the only structure all sides would agree to in order to quell the violence, although there are still some radical paramilitary hold-outs who still do not accept the peace and the Irish government is currently unable to function due to the Democratic Unionist Party refusing to take up their role in office as a protest against the way the UK has had to arrange it's international trading with the EU.
This directly effects the interation between the rest of the UK and Northern Ireland because there is an invisible 'border' in the Irish sea. Everything that goes across has to fit the new trading rules between the UK and the EU. This has been a block to some typical UK products reaching Northern Ireland and vice versa. There is a new agreement going through to create a two lane import/export routing which allows for goods to be sold only in Northern Ireland to be solely controlled by British standards and a separate lane for those bound for EU states (such as the Repubilc of Ireland). It is the best trade deal the UK and Northern Ireland ever going to get without rejoining the EU but common sense and Northern Ireland politics often seem to be two different things so whether Northern Ireland gets a working government before the next election is still up in the air.
To be clear, the arguments that anyone would lose their rights if Ireland was to unite holds about as much water as a seiv that has had an explosive go off in it. The Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and one of the core 'rights' of all EU citizens is freedom of religion. As such they would lose nothing but UK citizenship (in exchange for an Irish/EU citizenship) if such a union was to occur. They are totally ignoring that up until the last couple of years the UK itself was an EU member and most of the rules it enforces today are the same as you will find in any country on the continent. Also to be clear, I am English and have never visited Ireland myself so my understanding may not be the greatest, especially where it comes to the more modern cultural changes which don't really make it into the press (like in America, the UK press at large prefers stories of explosions and body-counts rather than cultural information).
Pretty good summary of the politics and historical context
NI was mainly British plantations, so no surprise they’d rather stay. 😅
Lol loyalists are those loyal to the crown
Northern Ireland is a less affluent area within the UK and is pricey to maintain for the U.K government but as long as the unionwant to remain part of the U.K., the people of Northern Ireland must not be forsaken. They have a choice. It could be that the Irish Gov can’t afford to do this but I’m sure the E.U. Will provide some financial aid. Then there is the religious divide that believe me goes so much deeper. The last thing the U.K. need is the IRA becoming activists again. I remember the bombings and looking under the bus and in bins for bombs, letter bombs, the killings all in the name of The Troubles. That was my teenage years. No more, kids today don’t know how bad it was for EVERYONE involved. Peace forever. This next part is from Wikipedia and might help. “Ulster loyalism is a strand of Ulster unionism associated with working class Ulster Protestants in Northern Ireland. Like other unionists, loyalists support the continued existence of Northern Ireland (and formerly all of Ireland) within the United Kingdom, and oppose a united Ireland independent of the UK”.
The NHS funding that is available to NI citizens is not available at the same level of free at the point of need in the south. GP visits are not normally free in the south. The north get £15 billion per year from London I doubt that that amount would be available from the Irish government. A lot of employment such as the upgrading of the shipyard for defence contracts are also reliant on being a part of the Union, these would cease to exist with unification with the south. There are many issues that would be altered by unification with the south but at the end of the day the people of NI are the ones who will make that decision it’s not as black and white as people think.
It is very complex so Ill try to be careful and there are many caveats to my explaination the first being i can highlight some of the views from friends.
First thing to understand is even though it gets ignored by many the UK is a theocracy in perticular a prodestant theocracy. the king is the head of the church and parliament technically works on his behalf.
so historically the attitude of religion comes from the Tudors/ Stuarts who where catholics and prodestants alternated on the throne and caused a lot of bloodshed.
So if you then consider Britain occupying a catholic country ie Ireland and outlawing some catholic practices it becomes political (If you think about it the USA specifically had secular government to avoid religious wars).
In modern times things have become easier (or at least had) but there are people who believe that the cultural differences maybe imposed by whoever is in power.
It doesnt help that the UK government has arguably complicated things in recent years.
Steve Steve Steve you will never understand this mindset. The six counties of Northern Ireland which is under British rule has always had majority Protestant. Mostly settlers the English sent over to to Keep the Catholics in their place. Up until 1968 the catholic population were totally oppressed with job adverts in newspapers stating Catholics need not apply. I know that the war here that raged for 30 years they laughingly refer to as “Troubles” helped the catholic community to get the vote the right to a job and an education. The hatred from the Protestant community is due to the fact that the Catholic community have excelled in everything- from university graduates entrepreneurs actors singers etc. Protestants have lost their control and all they seem to have left is their drums and bonfires bless. Part of me putties them as they don’t know any better and this mindset has been drummed into they by their fathers and grandfathers who lived in a different time when they had control. They were the police so could do what they wanted. I am sure you will get a lot of responses to this one but for what it’s worth and having lived here in Northern Ireland for 64 years this is my humble opinion.
Aontaím leat mo chara ansin. "They're gonna take all our jobs, opportunities, civil rights" Ulster is a 9 county provence NOT 6! Athaontaithe go deo xxx🇮🇪👍💚
I love seeing Americans watch videos about this stuff, it's so rare. You asked if "Protestants in the north are progressive than Catholics in the south" that's not what's happening, remember both Catholics and protestants are in Northern Ireland. Both the republic of Ireland and Britain have nothing to do with the riots in that regard. It's about young people who feel that they have a connection with Britain and young people who feel that they have a connection with the republic. It's not a war between Northern Ireland and the republic of Ireland, it's a war between young people in Northern Ireland who have political and Nationality differences who both want domination over Northern Ireland. To be honest realistically the republic of Ireland and Britain want nothing to do with Northern Ireland because of it's controversial history. if it makes it easier to watch both a Nationalist and Unionist perspective video to really understand the whole situation then feel free to do so.
you said "if there's a way to get rid of the disagreements and for Northern Ireland to unite with the republic" remember, unionists don't want a united Ireland they see Northern Ireland as it's own country and want it to remain under British rule, that's the point of why the controversy is happening.
" To be honest realistically the republic of Ireland and Britain want nothing to do with Northern Ireland because of it's controversial history." Okay that's simply dishonest ROI has every aspiration of retaking our land back but in a peaceful democratic way which values all citizens equally.
@@BrianBorumaMacCennetig367 how can the republic take away Northern Ireland through a "peaceful democratic way" if half of Northern Ireland's population want nothing to do with it or do not want to be associated with an Irish identity?
@@JMBPro By the ever growing majority of Irish Catholics in NI we only need 50+1%.
And take away the only thing Northern Irish people have to exist? Forcing them into an identity they want no part of?@@BrianBorumaMacCennetig367
Loyal to a wingnut who talks to trees
I'm from ROI and i've no idea what a Loyalist is.... The only time i ever hear Loyalist/Loyalist Paramilitaries doing/planning bad stuff and with a NI accent, usually Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams (are they still relevant these days?, i stay away from the news), Paisley must be dead by now, he was ancient 30 years ago.
Ian Paisley had a son...
You don’t represent most Irish who do know what loyalists are and also know that Ian Paisley snr is dead.
@@murpho999 I never said i represent most Irish. i'm completely oblivious to World politics/news and what's going on up North. Unless it effects me in a very negative way, i don't care.
The problem is a lack of proper education for working class protestants in prominently loyalist areas and just what their political leaders want.
It's a extremely difficult question,I've got family from all over UK 🇬🇧 both Catholic and protestant,make me king I'll sort it out
They could have picked kids with brains
Ireland is far more socially progressive than Northern Ireland, The UK is far more socially progressive than Norther Ireland. Young people on both sides of the divide are inclined to social progressivism, and the older cohort is extremely socially conservative, against the right to choose, equal marriage etc.
You're stirring up a hornets' nest by entering into this debate between Loyalist/Protestant Scots-Irish Unionists and Roman Catholic/Republican Irish Union protagonists. It dates back to the settlement of Scots Protestants in the province of Ulster over 350 years ago and regained strength with the partition of Ireland in 1922. By coming innocently onto this issue you're probably biting off more than you want to chew. It's akin to getting between a million Hatfields and 1.2 million McCoys. 😢
There were protestant clans in Ireland at and before the time of the Normans. This problem is not that short-lived.
@@wessexdruid7598Rubbish. There was no such thing as Protestantism until Henry the Eigtth created it in the 16th century. The stuff people make up or misplace as facts is unreal.
@@murpho999 The name may date back to Luther's Protestant Reformation - but the Inquisition was created in the 1100s precisely to deal with the 'heretics' (protestants) who even then refused to agree to Papal authority, had doctrinal differences and were appalled by the selling of indulgences.
All Henry did was institute it as a state religion - he certainly didn't create it. Try educating yourself before you rubbish others.
If you understand it come and lead us 🙏😁
It's not that it's protestant vs Catholic as much as being protestant or Catholic is a clue as to your political affiliation. Despite the progress that has been made in the last few decades there are still many areas that are segregated as well as schools and youth clubs which result in very little mingling with people from other backgrounds. The idea of "British values" doesn't mean anything to them because of this and is more northern irish protestant values which is essentially "NEVER"
I'm very pleased with you for trying to understand Loyalism. Far too few Americans understand the situation,, and it is IMMENSELY important that you do. ( Your President - whom I'm normally for - clearly doesn't!)
I'm a passionately involved English Protestant Christian, belonging to the Church of England, and the religious issues are serious. Contrary to the position in many religions, in the Christian faith God comes to us, rather than we 'get to God'. And culturally and emotionally all of us are in very different places.
Now I believe the Church of Rome is a completely authentic tradition of the leaders of the Church, and I notice that leadership types - such as President Biden - and also creative types - tend to thrive in that Church. I have a great respect for them.
However, that is not me, and I find the Protestant emphases much more helpful. If Roman Catholicism were the only way, I would simply sit in the corner and weep and wail in utter despair!
Catholicism to me represents the terrible tendency of leaders to only understand leaders, a major problem is the world today.
Now before 1200 the Church of Rome did brilliant things, effectively making a civilised Europe that people could live in. But after 1200 the Church leadership became obsessed with power, and until about 1890 very much stood for anti-democracy and tyranny.
Possibly as a result of a more genial climate, Central and Southern Europe have had more confidence and could bear this, but we tend to derive our idea of God from the climate, and gloomier Northern Europe found the ways of the Church of Rome to be unhelpful, and we broke free in the 16th century in the Reformation.
Remember the very important fact that the UK Head of State is still not permitted, by law, to be Roman Catholic.
For my people struggled for centuries against repeated attempts by Catholics to take us over. In many ways the British Empire happened in our struggles against the tyrannical Empires of Spain and France. You should look up the Spanish Inquisition.
When the Troubles began, the Republic of Ireland was very much a priest-ridden country. Abortion and divorce were almost impossible, and I think abortion still is. Now the Irish of the Republic are progressive in some areas, but the quickest way for you to understand the tensions is to consider what would happen if an American 'blue' state was threatened with being forcibly incorporated into a larger 'red' state. They wouldn't be happy!
Now the Irish are skilled with words, and are notoriously charming; this is deeply mistrusted by the North. A British Queen - Elizabeth I - invented the term 'blarney', because of her exasperation with the Lord of that castle!
One of the things that has changed is that the Roman Catholic Church has recently lost its unquestioned dominance in Irish life, as the result of some terrible scandals, such as the cover-up of abuse, and the discovery of fields of little bodies as the result of harsh orphanages. This would make eventual unification more possible.
But British idiotic and self-serving politicians, by pushing through Brexit, have put the whole peace in doubt. For having a land border with the European Union is terribly difficult, because the easiest way to do this is to have customs checks in the Irish Sea; this makes the Northern Irish feel they are being cast off.
That was actually a very reasonable summary. Fair play.
Brainwashed much 😂😂😂
Would you like me to give you real history lesson of Ireland. Because you haven’t a clue
Hi Steve. This video will give you some of the background to the troubles and attitudes in Northern Ireland. czcams.com/video/IHLYeBtGvOg/video.html
vice versa
Imagine that your state was annexed from Canada and still has a significant Canadian Minority who wish to rejoin Canada. Are there significant differences between American and Canadian values; of course not. But America is your country and your identity. Your not going to be accepting of Canadian annexation and worried that the Canadian minority population is growing more rapidly than the American one. Now throw in hundred of years of violence between the two groups with little interaction and you have a classic them and us situation.
But actually we can see a difference somewhat between Loyalist and Nationalist values. Loyalist political parties are more right wing than the Republican party. Abortion only just became legal in Northern Ireland and not because the NI Assembly voted for it as the loyalist never would, instead a private members bill passed in the UK parliament during one of the many periods in which the NI Assembly refused to sit. The Nationalist parties are much more Left wing than say Bernie Sanders. So you could see this as the basis of the value distinction. But bear in mind that the Loyalist parties are more right wing than any mainstream party in Great Britain, and the Republic is further right as a whole than the Nationalist parties. So the value distinction is within N.Ireland rather than Ireland and GB
I mean... Canada and the United states are kinda joined by a land-mass. Whereas we kinda just invaded the north of an Island, which is why N.I is still considered a colonial territory within Ireland, compared to its own country
Identity is a psychological thing. The 'I am's'. People here have 'I am Irish' or 'I am British'. The country has been here over 100 years but, when asked, few will say 'I am Northern Irish'. Those who do will likely face criticism for it. For most people, you're part of either one community or the other.
Regarding a United Ireland... that's like Brexit. Both sides would have to compromise a bit but, nothing has been negotiated (Belfast as Capital, maybe? Danny Boy as the national anthem, anyone? A flag that represents all the citizens, surely!). No-one knows what they'd be voting for. The best hopes and the worst fears can be attached to the idea. For most, these thoughts will turn out to be wrong. But fear is a powerful motivator. Fear of never having your hopes fulfilled or fear of living as a persecuted minority.
If you want to learn more, Patrick Kielty has some useful and, in my opinion, balanced video's, especially the Shared Island one.
Like the Americans who declare that they're Irish...
The whole argument goes 'beyond the pale'
A phrase which dates back to the Norman invasion of Ireland and probably further into the Anglo-Saxon and Viking invasions.
Too much history.
WHAT WOULD CHANGE FOR UNIONISTS IS THEY WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MORE REPRESENTATION IN A UNITED IRELAND THAN THEY EVER COULD WITHIN THE UK!
Its easy to say what is the difference between the north vs south and protestant vs catholic, they should be united and get on with each other... easy!
Lets look at it another way... Imagine that Northern Ireland is Texas and the Republic of Ireland is Mexico (Texas was once part of Mexico). Don't you think reuniting Texas with Mexico might cause some gun toting Texans to go on a rampage.