Super Saiyan May NEVER Be Surpassed
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2023
- Dragon Ball Super introduced a lot of new forms, but most don't feel so... Super. What does DBS get wrong about transformations, and why aren't they as loved as other classic forms like Super Saiyan? Is DBS capable of introducing impactful transformations, or has it just gone too far downhill? Let's discuss!
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Expect more discussion videos 👍 I like making them and you guys seem to like them too. Which DBS form is your favorite? 🤔
Super Saiyan God
Wrath/Ikari
Super Saiyan Rosé
Blue Evolution
Orange Piccolo
Ui
Prob super saiyan god or super saiyan Rose. They were cool looking and fun to see.
Ssj1
It's between SSG, SSR, SSGSS Evolved, They are cool and we barely see them in Super
They can’t redo perfection
Besides UI it was kinda cool ig (SSJ > Tho)
MasakoX did
Well yeah they fucked up cell
@@randomguy1401that's tfs, tfs is its own beauty
@@O16.I feel like UI is the closest we're gonna get to a modern SSJ, it broke servers for god sakes
I'd say my favorite DBS form is probably UI. Has a proper build-up to it, its iconic and had an amazing introduction.
And I think thats the bigger problem right now, lack of a significant build up for transformations, as well as timing some of them improperly. SSB came out too soon to immediately leave SSG behind, with a sudden introduction, without us seeing any struggle or training towards the form. Another issue is the inconsistancy of some forms, like SSB... Or UI now, cause it just looks like they cant decide if "Oh, you must be emotionless and focused" or "Nah, emotions go hard!!!"
In fact super sayan needs emotions. 2 needs more anger. 3 has need a lot of training. 4 needs to control the great ape power. God needs to have super sayans on your back and gives you strength. Blue also needs training and anger but to transform you need to suppress your power. The evolved form needs to have a pride boost if you train with vegeta.super sayan rage needs to have really to be angry. And ultra instinct needs to empty your mind to focus to your rival and the parts of your body moving without thinking. The beast form needs to have the potential of Gohan and too much anger to reach that. Did I say something wrong?
@@zorohaslostthe ritual is just a short cut to ssg.
You can obtain ssg through training with god and angel as seen with Vegeta
@@Im_stealing_comment OK
Yeah, I fr hate TUI. All it did was make Goku stronger, while throwing out a REALLY GOOD FORM CONCEPT into the trash. The point of UI was that when your mind is clear and focused on a single goal your body just does the work for you, and it also has consequence like the kaioken, but then why did they say, “control it now, with lots of emotion and thinking”? They just ruined the form, they just made UI the basic transformation, and after hyping it up so much. UI actually had consequences to using it, as we saw when Jiren was just about to lose to UI Goku. He tapped out and got shocked by purple electricity, boom! Now the form can’t just be used whenever you want- SIKE!!! Like istg Goku just abuses his UI and it comes with seemingly no consequences. All it does is ruin the buildup. If it was gonna come to this, I’d rather the series just end at Frieza Saga, when it SHOULD HAVE ENDED. Because SSJ was an actual good end game powerup, just like UI. But of course, it had to be this way. I could sit here talking all day about why TUI sucks, but I won’t waste your time any longer.
@@bac0nlifeforever956 mui still the best.
Perhaps the reason that some forms work is because of a combination of 4 factors, foreshadowing, lots of grinding/training, a feeling of intense desperation, and as you said, the general lasting impact of the form. SSJB, SSJ3, and Beast aren’t well received mostly because they lack most if not all of these aspects.
PS: I am also tired of Gohan going through the same goddamn character arc for like the 4th time come on Toei get your stuff together
Honestly, seeing gohan relapse after learning his lesson in Resurrection F is really distasteful. Being rewarded for not being able protect the people you care about makes no sense at all and getting mad when he should’ve learned his lesson about anger in the cell saga is also really disappointing.
The thing about super sayain 3 is that it’s like kaioken, it has costs and is used in desperation, it’s not just another power up like super sayain 2
Don't lump 3 in with Super forms. It's got an iconic 5 minute or so transformation scene to some nice-ass Falconer music, we know Goku was grinding his ass to unlock it even if we didn't see it, and the movies really hype it up by having him whip it out in the last couple movies to woop the main villain, even giving Goku a new move he exclusively uses in that form until GT gives it to base and SSJ4. That's more so Dragon Fist's W, but SSJ3 has way more going for it than Blue, Beast, and so on.
@@espurrseyes423 is terrible. Being memorable doesn’t mean it’s good.
Beast checks off 2 out of 4 of the things you listed. The only reason it doesn’t check off 3 is because it hasn’t been around long enough.
It's because super Saiyan was actually important to the story and was foreshadowed many times before it actually appeared. It actually meant something which is why the moment Goku turns into a super Saiyan is such a legendary moment. Most of the forms after it were just shoved into the story with little to no buildup.
…..UI?
@@bigstarwarsfan5714 For every U.I, there are countless Beasts Gohans
@@Delta_2209 fair
@@bigstarwarsfan5714ui itself had a lot of build up, but it was achieved by a way that doesn't make sense. First of all, why didn't Goku get disqualified for using the spirit bomb with people that already lost ?? Attacking when you're on the bench breaks the rule, but lending energy when you already got disqualified doesn't? Also why the hell did Goku look as if he was gonna die from it?? I thought the whole point of the spirit bomb is that as long as your heart is pure you won't get damaged by it.. unless you want to tell me that the dude which calls his enemies re-ards and leave the power get to his head multiple times is more pure than Goku.. also it got achieved and mastered in like 30 minutes, not to mention that it happened NOT when Goku was desperate but when he was about to die and already lost.. why are we rewarding characters for losing? Ssj was achieved by the anger and helplessness of Goku, same with ssj2 to Gohan, and ssj3 was achieved via training, but ui is achieved by losing.
@@bigstarwarsfan5714 ui was a complete ass pull. There was no feeling of desperation, barely any foreshadowing and no build up, the training for it is shit goku learned from roshi, kori and kami as a kid and the concept of it was kinda already done in og dragonball too. Yeah sorry, ui was really bad. The best and tbh only good form anyone got in super was ssg, and it was thrown away instantly.
I feel like some forms just weren't deserved and were there for marketing (yes they are all for marketing) while the older forms were there for marketing, pushing the story and felt even more lively
I'd be willing to bet the original Super Saiyan and possibly even Super Saiyan 2 were not at all for marketing. Everything in Super though yes lol
Edit: I said SSJ1 and SSJ2 were purely for marketing lmao nice typo!!!
@@Pixiuchu Kinda hard to say SS4 was not marketing, but it was definetly for story purposes as well.
Hot Take:
The Goku Black Arc was meant or should have gone to Piccolo / Gohan only Arc with only Whis and Beerus intervening at key points whilst they leave Goku and Vegeta on their training. Plus points:
- This makes Trunks Rage transformation more justified as it did not need to measure up to Goku/Vegeta levels of power.
- Piccolo doesnt need to teach the Mafuba as he could be doing it himself.
- It allows Piccolo, Gohan and Zamasu to be closer to each other in terms of power which makes more sense.
- You can still have Goku be the one who insults Zamasu and be the reason for Zamasu's plan. Adding to Goku's character of causing somewhat apocalyptic events purely based off his desire to have a good fight.
- It raises the stakes as Gohan would have to face an evil version of his father who killed his mother in this reality.
- It allows for a rematch between Goku and Piccolo.
- Since Goku and Vegeta are out of the picture we don't need to make Goku Black a reality warping entity at the end (in order to be beyond G/V's capabilities). Since the overall power of the arc is lowered this mean it's more of a conventional fight and Zeno does not need to show up and destroy this reality.
- Rage boosted Trunks plus Piccolo and Gohan bridging the distance (getting closer to Goku and Vegeta but not equal) together defeat a Goku Black who is barely able to mimic Goku's power with his new Rose form. As the 3 fighters defeat him they tell him that even still Goku is stronger than Goku Black.
This reality is saved, Trunks was successful in his mission, Goku Black/Zamasu/Gohan/Piccolo are slightly improved to better suit the story setting whilst keeping Goku and Vegeta training and also at the top of the powers leaderboard.
But someone probably cried and said it must be Goku and Vegeta and we got the mess we did instead.
Bro said this was a hot take and wrote an arc infinitely better than anything super introduced.
this take isnt hot its mf frigid 🥶🥶🥶
SSJ and SSJ2 had a crap tone of build up then and were a crashendo of there arcs. Also the success of those two form when they appeared made them memorable. SSG lost in its first appernce SSJB lost in its first appernce twice and ended a deus ex machina to time travle and sneak attack a weakened opponent. But SSG has the build up of of the whole movie and it’s usage of the form to expand the lore .
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I think you didn't mean ssj later in your comment. Maybe you meant ssb?
Dragon Ball fans never cease to make me believe that they never actually watch the shows. What do you mean "Super Saiyan lost in its first appearance twice?" Literally the first two times it appeared, they defeated the enemy
@@Foxyboi1985 I Got A Perfect Z Battle Run With Goku With This Hack!The Kamehameha Is HUGE!Try It Out!
I think people forget that the entirety of the Cell Saga was partially a race between Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks to achieve Super Saiyan 2. Goku straight up says once he recovers from the virus that he knows SSJ2 exists and wants to achieve it. Each of the three surpass SSJ1 in their own ways (ASSJ, USSJ, FPSSJ), but in the end it's Gohan to achieve it. That's how you build up to a form.
I feel like that I like blue more than other people, the manga saves it for me. It has been used in every single arc since its been introduced. Probably one of the most relevant forms since its introduction. I like the hammering of ki control in the manga.
I do as well and I also love dbs
i think dbs is, alright..but i love god and blue.
The only problem is that they had to kill god so blue could fail to beat almost every opponent it faces.
@@Jared_Logan people really like to bring this point up. While forgetting that goku defeated every main villain with a different form.
It has been used yet it has never achieved anything
2:00 Technically, Man-Wolf is an (anthropromorphic) wolf who turns into a human when he looks at the full moon. Roshi then used his hypnosis to make him permanently transform into a human, which suggests that he could permanently transform a saiyan into an oozaru, which is rather terrifying.
although saiyans require blutz-waves to turn oozaru. i dont think that would work (scientifically at least, then again toriama does stuff for fun most of the time so whatever). man-wolfs transformation seems more psychological, which makes less sense from an evolutionary standpoint, unless man-wolves are supposed to be able to transform at will, but this one "believed" to need the moon for some reason?
I definitely want to see more discussion videos like this.
I do think Power Awakened Piccolo being outshined so quickly by Orange is a product of Gohan being forced into the movie. Orginally it probably went Power Awakened could fight the gammas but he’d need to go orange against Cell Max.
Yep this rings true. A shame as this "power awakened" would've fixed the issue people have believing that 1 Gamma is on goku and vegeta's level. Whereas 2 gammas is a more reasonable comparison to 1 fighter of G&V's level.
Man, when i watched the movie i didn't even realize that was a transformation.
This is why SSJ4 was cool. It felt like a evolution to the Saiyan race, and is was actually creative, not just a recolor with fancy sparkles.
My most favourite form in super was Broly’s full power form. The scene of him transforming into this bulging hulk of a super saiyan is immense and iconic. It does have a lasting impact at least, something that SSB lacks. It is also very unique because Broly’s form has that intense green aura around his SSJ form.
Literally remember when I was a kid, I was sitting on the floor and Krillin got blown up, my mouth was wide open, I got the version where goku said “you ruthless, heartless bastard” I was so shocked😂 man seeing goku go super saiyan for the first time had me hype! And I was waiting for the next episode like crazy!!
I'm realizing a similarity between ssj3 and ssblue
Both were introduced out of nowhere, both accomplished little in their run, and they both had a stamina issue
I say had cuz with blue they just started ignoring that issue (I don't recall an explanation being given on how the stamina drain was fixed)
@@Mattaro-ng6lq in the Anime they literally hammered in avoiding to use blue in the T.O.P because it drains (you guessed it) stamina
What many forms in Super forget is how the original SSJ was achieved and the impact it left.
The forms of Super, minus UI, felt rather empty.
I think ultra instinct was the closest to the hype of the z forms because no one knew it was going to happen, the anime came before the manga in the t.o.p
Fax
It's literally been foreshadowed, I don't know how the form being unexpected is a good thing when literally all these fans cry about is "build up"
it was obvious that goku wouldn't die, a power up could be seen a mile away
SSJ4 is my favorite transformation because it brings back the Ozzaru which at the time seemed like it would never be relevant again and it is foreshadowed very well and let’s face it just looks badass like my goodness it’s so god dang cool
SSJ4 actually did have build up to it and has one of the most unique transformation segments with Goku losing control as a Golden Oozaru rather than just screaming a lot. Definitely the third best form after SSJ1 and SSJ2 imho.
@@dasaiyantv8483I personally say that it's better than Super Saiyan 2 design and usage wise
@@michaela6425 Maybe so, but it doesn't beat SSJ2 in terms of story.
@@dasaiyantv8483 If you're talking about SSJ2 Teen Gohan and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, yes, it's a hard bar to pass, but the other SSJ2? yeah... they're not that great in terms of story.
Well goten n trunks asked goku to show them that was part of their build up they went in the time chamber with this form in mind and trained for a few weeks and only achieved it while fused. They definitely worked for it
My problem with super is there is too many forms to keep up with.
Yeah and beast Gohan pisses me off
What makes a good transformation is four things : 1- first appearance. Ever heard that first impressions are everything? Well it couldn't any more true to transformations. Imagine that ssj even with all the other aspects that make a form good (which I will get to later) but instead of the banger first appearance, he just achieved it by accident while fighting recome. would it be nearly as iconic or remembered?
2- looks, which duh. Of course a transformation gotta look good, otherwise it won't be a good transformation at all. A good transformation gotta look not only good but unique, like ssg instead of changing the way goku's hair look or body it just changes the colours of his base form. Or ssj3 growing extra hair and losing eyebrows. Having a form looks not really different to another form (ssj2) or just being a pallet swap to another form (ssb to ssj and mastered ultra instinct to ssg) makes it look bad.
3- story, obviously. It's gotta be achieved by a way that's ONE foreshadowed and TWO explained in a way that make sense and fit to the overall narrative. Ssj was foreshadowed to hell and back, and it was told as a legend by the people that even it kickstarted the series to begin with.
4- uniqueness. Like ssg being a transformation that needs the power of 6 other pure hearted saiyans, or the ozaru being something like a werewolf.
Which to me is why ssj4 is probably the second best transformation. (with ssg being the third)
Because one it looks good AND unique, it's one of the only two forms that actually change the body of the user, like an actual transformation. Two it makes sense within the story as it's a saiyan reaching back to their primal roots, and it was foreshadowed. Three it's unique as it's the combination of two forms that saiyans can normally achieve, and then controlled to become this. Although while the first appearance is good, it's not nearly as iconic as ssj. (Which's why it's the second best transformation)
My ranking is this : - ssj - ssj4 - lssj (design wise it's great, story wise it actually make the legend hold weight as this is truly the LEGENDARY form, it's unique for being the actual legendary form that appears every thousand years and the first appearance is like so cool.)- ssjg. (In this order) These forms are all s tier.
- ss 2 (story wise it's good, it's kind unique, it has a banger first appearance but it's design is boring) and orange piccolo (design wise it's a great, story wise it makes sense and expand upon the connection between dragons and namekians, first appearance is kinda good and it's a unique form for namekians.) A tier
-ssj3 (because while it looks good and it has a good first appearance, story wise it's just boring and it isn't unique either.) is B tier
-ssb (story wise it was achieved by training like ssj2 so it's boring, design wise it's just ssj but blue, the first appearance is not interesting but it's kinds unique although because they didn't expand upon it like using ssj2 or ssj3 with it feels kinda half baked) -Mastered ultra instinct (design wise it rips off ssg, story wise it makes no sense as ui is a state not a transformation because angels are in constant state of ui, first appearance is good and it removed the uniqueness of ui being a technique instead of a transformation.) are E tier
- Gohan beast is f tier. (Design wise it's literally ssj2 gohan colour swap, story wise it makes no sense as why did Gohan just suddenly get a transformation for seeing piccolo get beat up? {Didn't he see him get killed by nappa, tortured by freeza, beat up by the androids then cell, then got consumed by buu and beat up by freeza? Piccolo has had the most ass beating right before Vegeta, so why did he get so pissy about it?} Uniqueness? It literally ripped off the cell saga and the transformation sequence, first appearance? Literally just ssj2 Gohan transformation) same with ssj rage. (Story wise it's just Saiyans getting angry, design wise it just makes the eye white, not unique and the first appearance isn't interesting either.)
I know we know barely anything about Beast, but I’d like to think of it as being the culmination of Gohan’s potential. His entire schtick is crazy power coming out of nowhere either from rage or an unlock of power (crazy power spikes in Saiyan Saga, unlocking of potential from Frieza Saga & Buu Saga, hell even SSJ2 considering how young he was + the rage trigger). With that in mind, Beast is in character of Gohan to be something he just gains out of nowhere. I wish they built up on it more beforehand apart from Gohan’s plan to attain something apart from Super Saiyan and his passing comment about training, but that’s Gohan for you.
Yes except he already has a form that brings out his potential to its fullest, ultimate gohan. So is beast just extra power? Or did they forget what ultimate is?
@@OfficialAndroid-16 Ultimate Gohan its just Unleashed Potential form that he got from Elder Kai, the Beast form is evolved version of that also his unleashed potential form can be stacked to his ssj forms
@@whitehairboykun5659 so it’s just ultimate + ssj?
@@whitehairboykun5659 that pretty much makes it a gohan flavored ssgssj which isn’t a good thing💀
@@OfficialAndroid-16 and why not?
I think SSBE is when Vegeta realizes that no matter what if he continues to follow Goku’s path he’ll always be second fiddle. Thus starting his journey for individuality thus unlocking his own path Ultra Ego.
Something about this Goku render in the thumbnail always makes me laugh
His smug aura mocks me
@@SaladSaiyan mockery is lovely
My headcanon is that Beast is Gohan somehow becoming super saiyan on top of mystic which would explain the rage boost. And also """somewhat""" explains the massive boost, you're essentially multiplying Gohan's massive full potential by 50, since mystic is a form that draws out one's full potential.
You realize how paradoxal that sounds, right?
@@bluichimirai you realize how there's literally no explanation for beast, right?
@@phanton4305 i know that damn well, and it just makes me pissed at its existence even more. Doesn’t mean this makes great sense. Then again without the ssj explanation beast is still very paradoxal due to Potential Unleashed existing
there is no mystic, it's his base form. he regained his full power through rage instead of transforming when pan screamed.
I like super Sayain 3. It’s an insane power up with its own limitations. Giving extreme power for a short time limit.
I honestly think that super saiyan 4 is a really cool form since its unique in the way it looks and i love how primal it looks and i do wish they could bring it back some how like maybe for an arc or two there god ki is taken away from them and they need to find a better power then SSJ3.
If their God Ki is taken away then you might aswell just take away their Ki in general
@@FazeRustyNuts normal ki is not God ki. Wut u said makes no sense
@@teezus2036 I never said it was, What you said makes no sense.
@@FazeRustyNuts u said throwing away God ki is basically throwing away all ki
Which isn't true.
Back when I watched DBZ as a kid staying up late to watch the initial Toonrami run on Cartoon Network before on demand streaming was even a thing I did not know about super Saiyan and it’s kinda interesting to see something that was a huge “WOWWW” back when I was a kid is now just a common dictionary term
Honestly man, you make great videos to the point where I feel bad when I miss them. I'm gonna watch the human powerup one soon for sure, thanks for the content.
Why does the editing look choppy and like it’s at 5 FPS? Very good video tho!! Banger as always 🐐
Ultra Instinct was special too, but SSJB was literally off screen
Gohan is my favorite character but beast really does feel like a ass pull. They had some lead up to achieving a form no one has but then he stopped training. It feels like it was set in motion and then ignored
I felt like they put Beast in the movie for a nostalgia bait cash grab, especially given how reminiscent it looks to his SSJ2 design. I sorta shrugged it off as an exclusive movie transformation like False SSJ from the Slug movie in Z, and don’t really care about it all that much.
@@rnpee it was nostalgia bait which is also why he was fighting a Cell clone, blame fans for overrating SSJ2 Gohan, studio knew exactly what they were doing to pull those nerds in to see the movie 😂
I LOVE SS3! I think they didn't utilize this form to its fullest. I mean why didn't they keep using this form and train with it like they did when Goku and Gohan mastered SS1 in the Cell saga.
From what i read the artists didn't want to keep drawing SS 3 because it took too long.
I think if they trained with it the story could have changed... I'm still hoping Goten and Trunks can master it.
One thing with super sayian rage, is that ITS THE EXACT SAME THING AS BEAST. As salad said Trunks gets really angry = rage boost and power
Same with gohan Gohan gets angry = new power. Now we know that the hybrid sayian ass pull forms are REAL!
How did you get that flickering effect at around 0:30 ? On SSJ God Goku
Super Saiyan is probably too iconic for any series to overthrow, but damn it did Ultra Instinct get fucking close
Beast is unlocked simply because Gohan was studying insects, or creatures. Saiyans always find a way to surpass their limits and it was never defined how they do so. Full explanation on Beast Gohan's form
Makes sense lmao
Very different type of video but very well done man and I’m only about three minutes in
This video really did encapsulate the problem with forms in current dragon ball. It’s not because they are made to sell toys or because their “recolors”, they just don’t follow the principles laid out with previous transformations.
Ui omen?
Yeh it's almost like not every form is trynna be like Super Sayian 😱
Beast gohan's main weaknesses are
1. It feels more like it's latching onto ss2's nostalga.
2. He's on multiple occasions shown to rarely train, only to half assedly just power up. (twice in super)
3. the form is just ss2 but bigger hair spikes, but to the point it looks bad. Looks like the K.N.D parody episode.
Honestly that original transformation is actually Iconic. Anime fans even if you don't like DBZ you know about Goku going super sayian for the first time. Something about it just hits different.
I agree with all your points and think that forms like Super Saiyan Rage, Beast, and Blue Evolution don't have enough build up in the story to feel impactful despite some of them having narrative significance and this can even be extended a little to Super Saiyan 4 because despite it's great introduction it kind of came out of nowhere without much build up and a lack of explanation but I think the form still works.
I do think that Super Saiyan Blue is an overall good form but was displayed too early and should have been built up more along with them going with the anime version of Blue with good ki control rather than the manga making similar to Kaioken or super saiyan 3 with having stamina drain.
I think UI is the best form out of Super and think even True UI works due to it not being a replacement for completed UI but improvement on UI Sign from the Moro arc and something that is used in certain situations but Complete UI is still a form that requires the user to be calm in order to use the power to its fullest which was mentioned in the Granolah arc; also True UI mostly came as a result to the new information that Goku received about his father and how he didn't have faith in his power at the time which resulted in him reaching a conclusion after hearing Bardock's words.
This is exactly why not every form has to be "built up"
@@FazeRustyNuts I'd argue a form being built up adds more weight to its appearance and display.
Gohan getting beast is much more unearned than trunks getting rage considering what timeline trunks come from. Beast is another asspull by the Goku family.
i think your absolutely right at first i disagreed about super saiyan blue but the more i listened to to you and thought about it....i realised you were right! and now my opinion about super saiyan blue changed plus the fact super saiyan blue barely ever wins its fight its basically....useless.
Imo the form that came closest to matching the original energy of the super saiyan transformation is ultra instinct. We see Goku getting completely overwhelmed by Jiren without him even trying, and ultimately Goku pushes himself to the limit and fails, necessitating his transformation. It also helps that the theme music is badass and it’s introduction is, imo, better than super saiyan’s as far as spectacle and raw hype is concerned.
8:43 bro, i just heard my Alarm in my house and i thought it was in the video when you said "Controversial."
Super saiyan from 1 to 3 had a meaning back then, something I wasn’t able to catch from ssjb or ssjg
UI made sense based on Goku's character and God was amazing because it didn't fit Goku's character and he hated that he didn't earn it, but the older forms just hit harder and actually meant more than a cool new route to power or just a power up. Kaioken and SSJ are my favorite forms in dragon ball,, because they made sense for Goku, helped serve the story, made the story interesting, and felt special.
i would honestly argue that UI was handled just as well as SS. There was hints to its existence well before we got to see the form, and it represented something truly unique. SS2, SS3, SSBlue and all the others are basically just power ups. SSGod was okay but it didn't have anywhere as much foreshadowing and the form basically got replaced by blue instantly.
The explanation for SSJ Rage is quite simple, but very hidden. And as you said, never talked about. It’s essentially the real SSJ Grade 5. Whenever he first gets the form, he bulks up as if to go into Grade 3, but right afterwards he shrinks down very quickly and attains this new power. So they explain it visually, by showing his rage mixing with his assumed mastery of Grade 3 specifically, considering we saw him actually using it against Vegeta, he unlocked SSJ Rage. And I think my theory is backed up even more by the fact that Dokkan and Legends both call this form “Super Saiyan” and not a higher level of SSJ or anything different than the original. Brought to the limit by condensing the greatest power you can muster in that form, being Grade 3, and therein negating the downsides of the original Grade 3 and increasing the benefits at the same time.
Got it. So it's just your headcanon to explain something stupid that isn't explained at all within the series.
@@espurrseyes42 Not only that but he's using terrible mobile game's as a source.
@Salad Saiyan, Goku actually had Oozaru And (briefly) Wrathful in og Db.
Once SSG was out a SS form of this one was expected, SS3 was a big impact as the 1st one, saying wasn’t loved would be lying, when 1st came out was everyone favorite
Honestly i like all of the forms from Db in general, some more then others obviously. But all the forms seem like they have their own meaning to them, Beast for example (in my head) would be when Gohan is going through a PSTD kinda situation from when he had to fight Perfect Cell, so his body reacts like how it did in that fight and he unlocks a new form looking almost the same as ssj2 except for the white hair, basically being his own version of ssj2. That is how I feel about most forms now with them giving some diversity between the characters with them matching the characters personalities, Goku's MUI being his calm and seriousness in hard fights, UE being Vegeta's well... ego and gaining power from hardships shown from his power gain form damage, and Beast form being Gohan's hidden anger. I know some people don't like the character arc for Gohan and it repeatability but I believe that it is kinda a relatable thing (excluding Androids, powers, forms, and world distruction lol) but him needing to let go of his wants and focus on what he needs to do. But in the end i'm just a person who enjoys guys fighting so who knows.
I Agree With Salad
In DBZ, The Forms Were Achieved By Pure Rage Against A Enemy And INTENSE SCREAMING!! Goku's SSJ And Scream Against Frieza For Killing Krillin, Gohan's SSJ2 Against Cell For Killing #16, Now They Just Train And Get New Forms. Goku Just Went SSB Against Golden Frieza, A Normal Base - SSG Against Beerus. It's Not The Same As Before, You Truly Can't Recreate Perfection.
Nice video been watching for 2 years 👍
Honestly i like most of these forms if not all of them because some of them fit the character that uses them like Mui, Ue, Beast, etc. But forms like Blue aren’t kinda deserved because like salad said no lessons learned from obtaining that form and it was released way too soon they should’ve dropped the form like Universe 6 Saga or something but anyways they should expand on the background of the forms and correlate them to how the achieve the form like Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan 4, etc… These are my thoughts in this topic.
SSGSS literally comes with SSG so what's the point of introducing it later just because some nerds feel like it should?
Can take a moment and acknowledge that there was also master roshis buff form and tiens 4 witches form from og dragon ball
I'd like to add to what you said about blue bassically we know how ssg(super saiyan god)is just another base form but with god ki now add super saiyan to a base form with god ki and you get ssb (super saiyan blue)that's bassically what it is just super saiyan with god ki now the reason why it drains so much energy and whatnot and why it stopped doing that with goku and vegeta is cause both of them have worked on the form more like we(the fandom and toriyama)said it's just super saiyan meaning it can be mastered the same way and leveled up the same way in other words we can get ssb2,3,and 4(super saiyan blue 2,3,and 4)and mastered super saiyan blue also I think beast is just another form combo bassically in my opinion it's just a combination of super saiyan and potential unleashed or something like that don't get me wrong it could be something else like another level or version of potential unleashed but as a saiyan form but that's all I got for an explanation
Here’s some food for thought. What if Beast is Super Saiyan Rage plus Ultimate?
0:52 I felt disappointed, mainly because when I saw Dragonball I watched the original, couldn't find Z on any streaming services so I went straight to Super, and finally GT, which GT resonated greatly with me and it's emotional ending...
and finally Hulu has Z (Kai) and the oh so critically acclaimed and praised first super Saiyan transformation felt like it was dragged out a bit... and then it went from gold...
to a deep orange colour the next scene. which really baffled me...
Did Kai change something to do that? Or is that just how it is...
Can you discuss about what can happen after Super? Like after the black Frieza arc. Do you think there will be a redux version of GT?
Okay off topic but, *Black Frieza*. It’s just like Goku Black: So fan fic sounding it’s hilarious
@@rnpee hello fellow ace.
@@adumbweeb YOO based Ace moment
On topic tho, I guess we’d have to see if Toei will do anything with the Moro arc first. It would be cool to see GT executed better, but then again what makes more money?
@@rnpee I think that after the black Frieza they should redo Gt
I'm more interested in knowing how DB will handle the Pokemon dilemma of running out of new colours for transformations to inform the audience that "this form is actually the strongestest and bestestest and has the biggestestest number evererer this time guys please trust me"
I always rationalized blue evolution as you're using super Saiyan 2 with super Saiyan God instead of super Saiyan 1...
This would explain the intro for it they just need to officially confirm that and then I think it would be better...
My theory on beast is that Gohan evolved the ultimate elder Kai Awakening power boost thing and now it brings out more power either by harnessing things the elder Kai's version ignored or by harnessing more potential then Gohan actually has with a multiplier
I would ike to note: People who hate SSJ3 because of what it did should also hate the Kaioken. And I'd like someone to prove me wrong. Let's compare.
Goku trains in other world to obtain the form.
It comes out of nowhere, outside of one line King Kai mentions the technique.
It defeats nearly no one, only being able to beat Captain Ginyu, but Goku lost that fight. SSJ3 atleast has wins in the movies.
It's the peak of Saiyan Power (I know it's not Saiyan exclusive but only Goku uses it, and he's a saiyan) with a major drawback until a new form of power is introduced (Super Saiyan for Kaioken, God Ki/SSJ4 for SSJ3)
The main and most well known villain for fighting the form is defeated with a Spirit Bomb (weather it be Vegeta/Frieza or Kid/Fat Buu)
Honestly the only difference really is the look, first transformation, and the fact SSJ3 is the third form in the SSJ tree. But those are minor things i hear.
I like every form imbh just something about there hair changing colors and spiking up is cool
when you said it's like he is forcing a new power for ssjbe it was exaclty it he couldn't stand goku's ui so he just somehow forced out a evolution
Hey can you make a new series on what if Goku and Vegeta wish their tails back in Dragon Ball super and every sans tails back
I didn't know durring the freeza nameck fight that super saiyan would hit like it did but I was watching it before work when I woke up in the afternoon for swing shift on a military base in the late 90's. Watched it in the Toonami block on cartoon network in my buddies barracks room. He sprung for cable in his room and I supplied the "morning" Late afternoon coffee since we both worked the night shift at our respective shops. Walked across the parking lot from my barracks to his around 1500 hrs in the afternoon 3pm watched an hr of cartoons while drinking coffee and eating breakfast burritos from the roach coach (food truck ) that swung by the barracks 4 times a day. They knew the shift change scheduals and always had breakfast food for swing and grave shifts. Could have gone to the chow hall and often did but usually got breakfast from the truck as at 3 in the afternoon being my 6 in the morning I didn't feel like a dinner menu. Chow hall only did breakfast at midnight chow and morning chow. Plus these were damn good burritos the roach coach made to order in just a couple of minutes. Cheese salsa eggs bacon and sausage with jalapinos was my standard. Buddy got his with onions and mushrooms no salsa. It was our morning routine pot of coffee breakfast DBZ and then off to work. We knew Super Saiyan was coming but we didn't know when or what it would look like. And yeah we thought it was cool as hell, years later after GT and DBS yeah the new forms just don't hit like that first transformation. OH Gt's SSJ4 I thought was OK and Super's Ultra instinct was fair to good but the rest just felt like "Oh a new form to beat the baddie of the current arc... yup let's see how long they yell while transforming."
ui= recolour of ssg
ssjb= recolour of ssj
beast= recolour of gohan ssj2
ssbe= ssjb but a bit darker
get the trend?
Ui is not a recolour of ssj god, I don't know who told you that
They should have made ssb appear when Goku black reveals he killed goten and chi chi to goku which make sense since he might accidentally use ss while at ssg and could make another vegeta speech, and also make ss rage a bit less powerful.
Salad, what's your opinion on the rosè form?
i have a few headcanopns on the forms wih no expanatiuion
ssjb evolved is the same as broly's ssj full power and its essentially stacking their insane potential ontop of a form that any saiyan can hypotehtically achieve, which is why goku's sjjb doesn't evolve like vegeta's because vegeta has royal blood and potential
beast is the same as ssj rage except beast is including the amplification of ultimate
Thumbnail reminds me of the conversation Goku and Vegeta had on the lookout in Cell Saga.
Vegeta said ''Are you implying that you are stronger than me''
Goku said ''As a matter of fact I am''
i think gohan beast is him finally accepting his Saiyan side along with with his human side merging the two power into one unleashing the true beast within
Naw would’ve been better that he was struggling with his Sayian side during supers run early on learning to make himself humble and focus and his skill and mindset,you know actually learn and grow????!
@@YUGOH9090 what sounds edgy? And why is it edgy to give gohan development instead of keeping his character arc the damn same every time?
I wish they can do like DBM and be able to channel the strength and speed of transformations. While in base. Even if its for a little while thats a diff type of mastery of your ki though..Imagine the stamina benefits but i think ppl will complain lol
I think some of it is because we watched it 20-30+ years ago when it came out and have fonder memories of the older forms. Remember 5 minutes before Namek explodes? Tons of filler. Many of the forms now are recalls to the old. God= base with the white aura but with god ki.. Blue = Super Saiyan with a solid aura. Rage = lean bulky Trunks form. SSBE=Super Vegeta in Blue.
super saiyan and super saiyan 2will always be my favorites, their's just something about them that just get me, y'know.
Damn he forgot master roshi transformation, Yamchas wolf fang fist transformation when he was first shown. Tien multi arm transformation. The robots fusing snd so fourth.
When a super saiyan form from gt surpass the DBS forms and it’s true. Also thank you someone says it about gohan beast, there’s no build up and it appears basically just like trust super saiyan rage, gohan and trunk’s basically just got really angry with no training whatsoever and they got the form
me watching gohan transform to ss2 for the first time be like: "wow he powered up". later when goku is talking to buu "what super saiyan 2? nothing changed? where?"
Bro salad I remember before watching the super hero movie I remember hoping they showed specifically ssj goku to see him in cgi and not really caring about any of the other form
The only problem I have with super 3 is that it took forever to actually be stable to use and when goku try’s to use it again, it leaves him out in the open, so yeah super 3 is dumb.
I think the oversaturation and inconsistency of forms and power making each individual form less impactful as a whole because at this point you pretty much expect a new form, even if it's brilliantly or poorly setup
The scale of powers is so unquantifiably high characters can only be scaled to each other, so it's like a turn based game where every turn they get a combo before getting a new power up and then turning the tables, consistency of strength and power ups just seems to change constantly.
One minute goku's struggling to fight someone in blue, then reverts back to basic form and somehow isn't just getting oneshot.
Considering the multiplicative aspect of forms, just going down a form would make you significantly less powerful, yet he can still usually hold his own long enough for another powerup
I think Blue Evolution is meant to be Super Saiyan Blue version SSJ Grade 2 were he gets buffer and more bulk.
Someone forgot about the Roshi Body bulk transformation.
Beast is made by rage + potential unlocked and if they built up to it like gohan training with whis after goku black arc it was probably one of the best transformations of all time
i think next they should do an arc where they are only able to use their unique saiyan instinct or forms
Thats because every super saiyan had so much build up the ones with god ki like trunks ssj with blue ki or ssg and ssjb just came out of no where, and then they built up ultra instinct it just hits different. they built up ultra instinct
The more forms that are introduced the less meaning and impact they have
They should have just ignored ssj blue, and just used ssjg until Goku gains ultra instinct, and Vegeta gains ultra ego. The story could have focused on the plot more, and maybe foreshadowing the transformations.
Super Saiyan also has the most wins in the series, counting the movies too compared to every other transformation. I counted about seventeen wins throughout Z, Super, and GT.
My favourite forms are SSJ2, SSJ4, SSG (in concept). SSG could have been the limit. Maybe they could have made True SSG instead of Blue or even Blue Evo. Love SSG.
super saiyan rage should have been super saiyan demi-god. they could have kept the aura but make trunk's hair longer like when he was in grade 3 ssj
My headcannon for Beast Gohan makes me like the form more. He's fighting Cell again and doesn't want to repeat the same mistake as last time. He lets his rage take over again and (this is my headcannon part) his rage allows him to find a way to use his ultimate form and super saiyan 2 together, creating the beast form.
I agree with most of this besides Blue evo vegeta broke his limits multiple time during the tournament of power and got a transformation that was only equal in power to blue kaio ken x20
I feel like Vegetas blue evolution was just them give him away to kinda keep up with Goku in his on way like super vegeta when he came out the time chamber
I feel like super saiyan blue should have been introduced after loads of training with Whis and Beerus during the future trunks saga when Goku was told his family was killed by Zamasu in his timline as he already got angry in that scene and it would have fit better then them just randomly unlocking it for the Freeza fight.
I think Goku should have been the one to get SSJ Rage or a SSJB version of it. I would have worked so well for that moment in time.
Dragonball honestly feels like it doesn't know how to handle transformations anymore.
For all intents and purpose, it's basically just "oh his hair changed and now he is a high enough level to fight"
There's just no distinction anymore.
Like you said in the video. Super Saiyan had a lot of build up to it. Vegeta kept mentioning the "Legendary Super Saiyan", and he and Goku both kept hitting new heights of power and Vegeta speculating if one of them or the other had achieved the Super Saiyan of legend. When Goku finally transformed we knew that this was it. THIS was Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan 2 was, I think, even better built up to. The androids arrived and the Saiyans learned that Super Saiyan wasn't enough anymore. They had to take it to another level. And they did. A lot. Ascended Saiyan, Super Vegeta, Grade 2, Grade 3, etc. There was a lot of trial and error and variations on the transormation in different ways until until Goku and Gohan found one that worked really well for them and allowed Gohan to push the transformation to the true next level.
God is not as well built up to as Super Saiyan or SS2, but still better than SS3 so I give it an A rank. It was unique in appearance and did have foreshadowing before it ultimately arrived. I actually liked that it originally went away and I think it would have been better if they had spent more time on screen trying to re-achieve the form instead of jumping immediately to Blue offscreen...
UI also had significant foreshadowing leading up to it. The Sign fights were actually amazing. And when Goku finally achieved the form it was super hype and felt like he had earned it. I also liked that despite everything else it was unstable and he couldn't hold it or re-achieve it at will. At the time when it happened I did feel like it was just Plot Armor the power up, but in hindsight it actually did not allow Goku to win. And without Frieza and 17 he would have still lost even though he had achieved such a powerful new form.
Wait annoyed me with super saiyan rage is that it could've been called something easy better like saiyan demi God which would've made more sense since he's a hybrid. As for blue evolution it could've been called royal blue and been something about Vegeta being from the royal family