Emperor's Children Horus Heresy Review & Tactics
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2024
- In this video, I talk units and tactics for Emperor's Children in Horus Heresy! I review all of the characters and special rules, and give you some tactics and advice for using the most prideful legion in your games of 30k. This is quite a "technical" and gameplay-focused video!
There's a few of new things in this video:
* the video itself, which is long and a little technical
* a slideshow with the audio content
* improved sound editing (actually...I just did some sound editing)
I'd love to hear feedback on what you think of all of those things. Thanks!
Intro 00:00
Legion Trait 01:26
Advanced Reaction 03:42
Warlord Traits 05:35
Legion Equipment 07:38
Skill Unmatched 11:57
Living Icons 16:01
Phoenix Warden 17:04
Phoenix Terminators 17:37
Palatine Blade 20:26
Kakophoni 23:06
Special Characters 25:43
Eidolon 26:06
Saul Tarvitz 28:09
Lucius 30:23
Fulgrim 32:53
Rites of War 35:16
Army Theme 39:45
Army Advantages 40:48
Army Disadvantages 42:59
Bringing it All Together 44:31
Summary and Outro 51:27
Good stuff. An idea for future episodes: do a section on how to play against that legion. It’s both interesting to think about and means that at least one segment is applicable to all players.
Good idea, probably for future content, when I’ve played more vs them - also stops the videos from being too long!
Really great run through. Enjoyed having notes on screen too. A sample army list might be a nice inclusion in future
Awesome video. Pics and notes really do make a difference. As a newcomer to 30K building my first EC army, this video is just what I needed. Thanks!!
Thanks for the feedback, appreciated!
Great set of thoughts - I am struggling to get my head around these legion differences and these videos are really helpful. Many thanks, Mal
Great talk through a legion for newcomers such as myself. Hope you do the other legions too!
this video made me really happy, I had already set my heart on some units i wanted to take like sunkillers and palatine blades, so happy to hear theyre good
I love the 3rd company elite.
The idea of playing entire units of Banshee Marines is just too cool.
Really love all the 30k content man! Would love to see something similar for the Sons of Horus. I am painting up my army right now and I have a really difficult time creating a thematic army list for them that will also work decently on the table. Justerins look good, but you can’t just spam 1 unit now can you 😉!
Great episode! So good to hear that the glorious 3rd legion is a force to be reckoned with. I'm looking forward to taking them to the table top again.
I like the skills, and if you wouldn't mind, do you think you could crunch the maths for me? It would be much appreciated and would help me use my Phoenix terminators and Warden to the best of their ability.
Again, great video. 👍
Really nice breakdown! I was happy to learn that I wasn’t too far off in my theoryhammering, and that my army (3rd elite) is most likely the subpar (and thus thematically superior) choice!
I really like 3rd company elite too, haha
Loving the onscreen notes~~!
Thanks Mike!
@@Hearesy I’m really enjoying the in depth analysis. Probably the best heresy content in the web currently. The combat resolution bonuses for EC are really interesting. Wanted to mention the Bloody Handed core warlord trait!
Oof good one Mike! I’ve been trying to keep generic rows and WLTs out to cut down on the time, but that definitely should have been in here!
Nice review
Thank you!
Awesome info. I was going cold on taking EC for first HH army, but now after this video i am raging hot on them again. Great upgrade in your video production skills too. Question: can you take kakophoni if you don't take the 3rd company elite rite of war.
Thank you! Yep you can take them as usual in a normal army.
Loving the videos. I’ve just picked up Age of Darkness and want to go for Loyalist EC - any advice how best to build / use the box content as a starting point?
Nice slides!!
Thanks!
I always find EC's skills really work best as killing blows in an otherwise ranged army. Recon Squads and Lascannon HSS really compliment with range and hitting hard, and if combined with Sabre Tanks, JetBikes, Sicarans and Predators, you can generally dictate the flow of battle and force the enemy units into the positions you want to then land the ideal charge.
I'm torn between EC, Word Bearers und Sons of horus. Would be amazing if you could do Word Bearers and Sons next!
I think many melee players want to jump straight into melee, but I think EC rules actually really help them play defensively. If you can get some tanky line troops (breachers or a right of war that let's you take something tanky as line) and sit them on an objective, they'll be great. Especially if your warlord let's you use two reactions. Just wait for the opponent to try to contest you and use your reaction to counter charge and wipe them out. EC may not be the most outright powerful, but many of their mechanics allow them to beat the odds. I think leveraging that will be key to their playstyle.
Agree. I really think people are understimating phoenix terms because they are AP3, when with combat bonuses they barely need to fight at all!
Holy crap. Just getting into 30K. I’m considering either Emperor’s Children OR Alpha Legion.
Just looked for any guide for Alpha Legion but your style/format for this video was FANTASTIC and thorough. Any chance of you doing a similar video for Alpha Legion? Would love to hear your thoughts!! 🤞🏼🤞🏼
Yep theyll definitely be done too, and thank you!
@@Hearesy Any aspects I need to be mindful of for Alpha Legion in general? In 40K I have a Deathwatch force and haven’t been super pleased with it because of all the modifications to rules, different equipment rules, super specific odd abilities, etc etc. I feel like Alpha Legion may be much more of that, but in 30K. If so, maybe I avoid it and simply go Emperor’s Children? Any thoughts ya may have, really appreciate it! 😬
Could you maybe make one for blood angels? I'm really struggling to make interesting lists and with what equipment to take. Really nice change with the little PowerPoint ;)
Thanks! I’ll get round to them all eventually, have just finished editing Night Lords, BA maybe next week or so!
After a first game of only melee EC versus an almost all bike white scars I can say that your tip to bring enough guns so that you get to play with the melee stuff is very very good. Also I found out that the template weapons on big units are pretty hard to use, as you cant place a template over a model of your own unit so only the 3-5 people in the front will get good shots. Also the Maru Scara is not bad but it has a few downsides. You have to mark where your outflank is coming before the game so the enemy will always get a chance to move away from it. So if you arrive with footslogging palatines or termies people will just walk away. So some outflank shooting may be better, maybe with some melee to deter people to just bind them in melee :)
Did you know that the Maru Skara is written in such a way that it doesn't force you to take reserves and deploy them? You can become the White Scars for free
This is great. Can we get an Imperial Fist's one for all us Box Art Bois?
How do you feel about putting Apothecaries with Kakophani? I figure you’re going to get a lot of bang for your buck in terms of 5+ Feel No Pain… might be the difference between a Kak unit having 3 guys left in turn 4 vs 1. Also giving them sub-sonic pulsers helps the Kak deal with night fighting (as it seems they can’t get a nuncio vox).
Definitely earned a subscribe from me!
Much appreciated!
Yessss my legion, time to sit back and drink in an hour of content 👌👌
You raise a lot of good points for phoenix guard but ultimately I think they lose out to regular terminators with power fists. Striking ahead of enemy AP2 on the charge, forcing invul saves and instant death. Just so much more reliable for taking out enemy terminators than hoping for 6s. Yes the phoenix have got the +1 combat res bubble, and they can play games where enemy WS4 hit them on 6s with sonic shriekers, but I think they will just get bullied by enemy terminators. Plus they cant take a vexilla to maximise living icon benefit. I think regular tartaros with power fists are a better option
On Kakophoni. You raise a good point re: gets hot. But bear in mind its AP5 so they can take their armour save. My plan is to take ten with a techmarine and apothecary so I will also get FNP on gets hot, so chances are nobodys dying from that.
The real kicker is the techmarine. Cognis signum and augury scanner for BS5 and night vision. Then enforce night fight. Suddenly that pinning test is at -2LD, and unless the enemy has Night vision they cant return fire.
Something else to note for Lucius. He has preferred enemy (independent character). This is huge, because he also grants that to his unit, and if he goes up against an enemy unit with an IC in it (and when is an IC not in a unit?), that rule then also applies to the bodyguard unit. Absolutely savage, him and his unit get rerolls to hit and wound against the enemies prized unit. This also applies to shooting - why not have him join ten lascannons, light up some enemy termies, then hop across into another squad and charge in. Just savage.
You correctly point out he will decimate in challenges. But even if your opponent declines the challenge, dont worry he has Precision strikes (3+) so he can fish that frightened sergeant out of their unit anyway!
Spot on analysis of Blade of laer. Also note laer blade is specialist weapon, Nineteen isnt, so taking the 40pts reduction also means +1A. This guy is just phenomenal.
What phoenix guard are probably best for is taking shriekers, sticking Guard on, and accompanying an epicly killy character (fulgrim or lucius). Character wins challenge and massively overkills, phoenix guard dont take many casualties due to being hit on 6s even against WS5, catch enemy in sweeping advance.
Yeh, I factored that. 5 of them is 2.5 gets hots, so still one dead marine on average more or less. Its a lot of gets hots! Apoth is a good one, but then the unit is 200 points, which is kinda expensive for what it does. Definitely works though.
Lots of discussion of just that topic (Night Fighting) in my upcoming Night Lords video but suffice to say, I definitely agree!
Great video, what's your thoughts on Despoiler squads over Tactical and on Breacher squads to hold the back line?
I think they’re directly interchangeable with tactical squads. You give up some crappy bolter shots for being a bit better at melee, which is a sidegrade. I think I’d maybe use them over Tacticals in legions that get melee buffs like blood angels or space wolves, where i dont want to invest in chain bayonets. They sit on an objective and are cheap, and are slightly better than bolter marines in melee if the enemy comes knocking.
@@Hearesy I was discussing EC in general using the maru
Hi mate, great video! What are your thoughts on the Legacy and Exemplary Units for EC? Sun Killers seem bonkers good (BS5, +1AV and reroll wounds of 1 on Lascannons), but Rylanor seems very overpriced for what you get. What do you think?
@@Hearesy the ones in the exemplary unit database, the energy weapons-only heavy support squad that can designate targets and ignore cover/damage mitigation
Sorry was just changing my reply after finding them! I had a wildly different pdf with these in, will figure out tomorrow how that happened.
My opinion on these is similar to the legacies pdf - poorly written, unbalanced, obviously very good.
What are your thoughts on bringing some Emperor's Children along to supplement a Iron Hands force as allies to cover the IH lack of focus on melee?
I havent really gotten into thinking aboit allies as I’ve disliked the whole concept since the 90s… but I think it would be cool and for sure a good way to cover weaknesses.
Would be v fluffy!
I dont feel like you’re helping me avoid starting Emperor’s Children…
Would love to see the math for skill unmatched
The Phoenix spear change kind a sucks for character and sergeant fighting, but i2 fists mean we have a legitimate niche and reason to use cataphracte terminators now.
I dont know what the old rules were, but certainly seems like there are plenty of niches in there now and reasons to take all of it. The variety is great!
Great video. Was hoping someone may be able to help me on a question on the EC Phoenix Warden. Is this a consul upgrade or is it an additional upgrade. There seems to be an inconsistency in the book where some upgrades are specifically called out as a consul upgrade, like the Alpha Legion Saboteur. Where others are not called out as such, like the Pheonix Warden and the Word Bearer Diabolist. Is there anything that confirms these are all consul upgrades?
Its a consul upgrade, yes. You take it as a consul, not in addition to another consul.
@@Hearesy thanks, is there a reason why some are marked as being consul upgrades and some aren't do you think? I think some are specifically flagged with the consul text and some aren't.
Im not looking at the books right now but do you have an example?
@@Hearesy yeah, both the Saboteur and the Dark Emissary are prefixed as 'Legiones Consularis: xxx' where as neither the Diabolist and Phoenix Warden are. The rules for the consul types are included under the chapter for Legiones Consularis. My assumption was some of the upgrades could therefore be used alongside each other.
Ah got you. I think the intention is very clear for these either way - i havent seen anybody else think there was an option to use it as anything else. So safe to say theyre supposed to be consuls and most people agree, even if it isnt explicit. Ill check later out of curiosity anyway though!
I'm building an emperors children project and want all my sergeants to have the Phoenix spears. If I give my legionair sergeants, cataphracti terminator sergeant and praetor those spears, are they goig to be illegal in game?
Also what model is a phoenix warden consul?
Perfectly Legal to do, just maybe not the best option for all. Spears are 2h so you lose an attack compared to if you take the rapier instead.
For the warden, kitbash youself something, i think it has to be in Tartaros- and well even if it doesnt its the best choice. A spare Pheonix Terminator works well.
@@timothygrulke1308 thank you mate, I'm not too fussed about it being effective in game just want it to be aesthetic and as long as its usable that's fine with me.
Also, thank you for answering the warden question. I shall scour ebay for a tartaros terminator haha. Big help, thank you
Who's the better killy character Eidolon or Lucius? I love both characters can't decide.
Full ini thunder hammer is a big deal, lucius more consistent. Theyre both great - it is tough!
Not sure Living Icons rule stacks with Vexilla (it says it doesn't stack, then it says it doesn't stack with itself(is this a continuation of the first part?), then it says HOWEVER it stacks with Fulgrims Sire of EC) Also i think you forgot about Paragon of Exellence WT and it's interaction with Hold The Line reaction this alone makes it incedibly powerful. Palatines are expensive because they are one of the few 2W 2+ save non termie special squads that can take wide variety of power weapons (i.e they will destroy any other 3+ save special squads since they attack first while being almost invulnerable to attacks thanks to WS5(6)+ Shrikers and 2+ save, they can smash dreads/mechanicums with d3 ID hits or melta bombs, they can kill termies with power axes at i2, only guys they are going to struggle against are Suzrains, dawnbringers on a charge and maybe Phalnaxes in 4++ reroll RoW). Good video thanks.
Id be very confident that it does stack, it only precludes stacking with itself (although “another version of this rule” could certainly have been less ambiguous!)
Agree on the palatines, yeah. They certainly have uses and look cool too!
What u think about fire raptor? In a EC army
Theyre great!
what happened to the night lords video? it disappeared as i was watching it
It went back up 4 minutes ago! Apologies it went out in error the first time. Hope you enjoy it!
How do you feel about jet bikes with Emperors Children?
I like that jetbikes bring good hvy weapons and are fun and a bit different. EC needs hvy weapon support like all melee legions do so i think they would work fine!
When is perfect Fury actually good? Lets say I'm WS 5 fighting WS 4 stuff....Is gaining an attack better than hitting on 3s rather than 4's? There is almost nothing WS3 where it be a clear winner
Best Primarch in melee? I'm not sure how you're calculating that out but in a vacuum he outright loses to Horus, Russ, and Ferrus. Angron, Curze, Dorn, and the Lion can all kill him too depending on stuff like Reaping Blow, FnP, or Angron's late game attack bonuses.
I'll be the one, I've got a growing Emperor's Children army (lacquered purple over steel scheme) want to see the maths!
I’ll be fired from 30k youtube if I post a maths video…
@@Hearesy eheheh be the first! OR HEAR ME OUT
Post a video recommending good things to bring in general.
One thing I've seen in a bunch of recent batreps is like 3x20 tacticals or breachers.
MWG has an Iron warriors V WB one that has that so too does Blackfoot Gaming and more, discuss how prevalent blobs of tacs or troops are gonna be? Idk if ya want to I know I'd watch it.
Aren't termite ASSAULT drills assault transports though?
Nope :/
A damn shame we lost rylanor.... he was my all time fav dread to field. I really hope he returns in some supplement book
spoke to soon! GW just released his profile!
Im glad we got him back but im also dissapointed that he has been castrated with his unnecessary nerf at the cost of 5 points less. He lost his mantle of glory special rule as well as his fleet rule and he has been reduced by -1WS in exchange for one more attack. He is basically a standard dreadnought with crusader special rule and nothing else. Tho some other legions like salamanders have it way way worse than EC with named dreadnoughts
@@daveass4063 The whole PDF is just really really bad, and needs to be withdrawn and revised. I would have liked to see Rylanor gain skill unmatched and living icons- that would be awesome.
@@timothygrulke1308 i cannot agree more
Maybe playing them with night lords for the leadership debuffs for securing fall backs for the sweeping advances and for even more debuffs for pinning tests
That could certainly be a thing!
Have I interpreted this wrong or is perfect skill really bad, I don't see how any of the modifiers are better than the default rules
They are not amazing, but situationally very good. For example if you have sonic shriekers and choose the -1 to be hit then enemy WS5 models will hit you on a 6 and you’ll probably win the combat quite handily. The +1 attack is good if you’re fighting low ws enemies who dont pen your armour, as it will increase your total damage even with -1 WS and the extra return hits you get wont be bad.
The +1 to hit one is only really good against WS7 enemies as far as i can tell!
@@Hearesy That does sound abit better, do you have to choose one of the rules
@@Hearesy Is an extra attack better though? Lets say I'm WS 5 fighting WS 4 stuff....Is gaining an attack better than hitting on 3s rather than 4's?
Children of the Emperor. Glory to his name, death to his foes!
thought i recognised your voice from justplay
Guilty!
The third legion is best legion… 😈
I have one question: do you know how does challenge works now ?
Attacks from challenge wouldn't go anywhere, now you can kill only one model . And of course everybody will accept Fulgrim's challenge by sergeants/apothecaries , not by another primarch . That made fulgrim the worst primarch.
And already all Primarchs have automatically precision strike, that make "conception" of challenge by them, useless.
For example: unit with Ferrus fight with fulgrim's unit. Ferrus can allocated all wounds to Fulgrim, and fulgrim to Ferrus too. But they didn't fight a challenge, and Fulgrim will not have his bonus (extra attacks).
This is so stupid !!! Why, God, why ?
This made Fulgrim the worst of his brothers, because he can't normally use his abilities (his challenge potential is useless, because he can slay only one model.. challenge effective only to killing another primarchs.. but they never will accept it, normal opponent will accept it by sergeants. You can Kill enemies weak character by snipers or another challenger before Fulgrim's one, but it will made his not so effective and overpriced ).
I really wants to know your opinion about this.. how to play fulgrim now without crying ?
(Sorry for my English, but I hope you understand me))
Yep that is the way it works and it sucks :(
But fulgrim is really good. Just dont challenge - kill their units! Challenge yourself with a sergeant, and fight in a fulgrim challenge in the next round, etc. You can work around this!
@@Hearesy 🥲😔😔 .
I hope they will change something in the next FAQ. Because this is really stupid and illogically..
Thank you for your answer !
Perfection or death !!!
What would you say would be a good place to start this legion? Asking for the girlfriend, she loves their color scheme.
AoD box is great with the EC upgrades, but i think phoenix terminators and palatine blades look amazing!