Machining a BETTER Parting Tool Holder Pt1
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Support My Work on Patreon: / herschtoolroom
In this week's project I'll begin the process of machining a quick change cutoff tool holder.
This tool holder is designed to be more versatile and rigid than the standard cutoff tool holder you'll find with most "aloris" style quick change tool posts.
The increased rigidity helps to make parting operations much easier to perform.
All of the work for this project will be done on the milling machine.
I will demonstrate the "Joe Pie" method to quickly and easily square up stock while taking your part to major dimensions all in the same process.
Then, I will show how to measure a dovetail to achieve a nice fit before machining the dovetail feature.
I'll also have a bit of a crash, and we'll talk about why that happened and how it could have been prevented.
Please leave a comment if you have any questions, ideas, criticisms, or concerns.
My Lathe: MSC / Prince 9517350 - 13x40 Manual Metal Lathe
My Milling Machine: Bridgeport Variable Speed Series 1 "J Head"
My other Milling Machine: Brown & Sharpe No. 2 Plain "light type" Universal Milling Machine
CREDITS:
Music and Sound Effects courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
/ @hersch_tool
If the "mistake" is 50 thou deep, machine the feature 50 thou closer to the tool post and make it disappear.??Closer to the tool post is always a plus for a parting tool.
I had considered just cutting it out, but I don't have a ton of extra room to work with on the stock, plus it isn't gonna really affect anything so I'll just leave it be. Thanks for watching!
I might have one or two of those 30 taper tool holders. I think one is an endmill holder and the other is a shell mill holder. Not sure where they are right now, but I'll try to see if I can find them. I don't use them, so if I come across them, you're welcome to have them.
That would be AH-FRIGGIN-MAZING! Just let me know if you find em and we'll work it out!
Joe has a lot of good ideas and methods, love the miniatures he does.
Nice clear instructions on your projects
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Yeah I've learned from Joe pie. Those models he does are mind blowing. And thank you very much, thanks for watching!
Having an endmill pull out of its holder, is a learning experience, that most of us have encountered. If it really bothers you.... a mixture of JB Weld (original) is your friend. Clean, let it properly cure, and re machine. Good subject and good camera work...! Keep up to good work!!!
Yeah, stuff happens sometimes I guess. And I reckon I'll leave it, years down the road I'll look at that mark and have a memory to laugh about and a lesson learned right? Lol. And thank you very much btw, and thanks for watching as well!
A good quality cutoff blade would make a HUGE difference. I had a heck of a time with parting when I first started. I bought some Empire brand parting blades and it was amazing how much easier it is.
I have been using the same one for about 7 years now and it is still about 3 inches long.
Joe
Agreed, good tooling in general is critical. I feel like that's one of those lessons that we all have to learn the hard way lol. The cheap import tooling is so tempting for the price, until you learn better...
I don't remember if you have a surface grinder... If you do, and if you decide to try my little flight of fancy here, you might want to get some more tool holders to modify, as it may not be cost effective to do just one... make a 1" radius on one side of the grinding wheel, ans whatever the lock angle is on the other side... Grind the cam-lock into your holder... Just a thought...
Yeah that's a solid thought. It would take a while to grind out that much material on my little 1hp surface grinder, but if I could get a good technique going and knock a bunch out it would be great seeing as how cheap and available bt30 tool holders are
You can always approximate the size of the notch with a hand grinder and a cutting disk and finish it with the surface grinder.
That is indeed a slick way to prepare the stock.
Yeah, Joe Pie is pretty awesome. He's got decades of experience and shop wisdom that he shares on his channel. I've learned a LOT from him.
Amazing work and video.
And I enjoy your speech. Thanks a lot!
Thank you very much, and thank you for watching!
Heat it up with a torch and let it air cool.
There are a LOT of issues with attempting to anneal it. Best options are going to be either grinding or hard milling with plenty of oil to keep the temp down. I'm pretty sure he milled it, and I'm guessing he would have just used some kind of carbide so I might try that.
Maybe rough the cut out with an angle grinder using cutting blades then grind the rest using a 1" cylinder in a die grinder?
Sounds like that could be doable. BT30 tooling can be found pretty cheap second hand so might pick up a lot next time I see one and experiment.
I dunno that Joe pie move looks like the stock was cocked when you went down to one parallel... Re your oopsie, as previously mentioned just being everything else in the 50 thou. Re your holder, I was going to say that can lick thing looks awesome! But now I (we all) know better. Bummer. Torch that thing and let it cool slow. It'll soften right up. Can you just run a draw bar down through the top? It might be worth it just for other holder options. Even if you have to pull the cam lock out... Which would also suck cuz I still think that thing has mad potential!
That's definitely something that you have to be aware of when using this method. But try it for yourself, I think you'll be surprised how easy it is to get it right. I've been using it ever since I saw it, and it's given me pretty good results. And I agree, a lot of comments to change the spindle, but I think the cam lock spindle is pretty awesome and will be a huge positive once I have tooling for it. Also, would take significant modifications to the vertical head to allow for a drawbar as it's all closed up above the spindle since it doesn't use one. And that's not something I'm really keen to do. but yeah, the cam lock is friggin slick, I'm keeping that sucker and I'll make tooling. 😎
Another option is find someone with an EDM (Electricrical Discharge Machine) and make an electrode based off of the correct tool holder.My Knee mill(excello) also has an unicorn tool holder(Beaver quick change) so changing the spindle is not an option. I would try the carbide,go slow and steady first,then try the EDM 2nd.
All that time 😮 I’ve always felt welding and machining are essentially brothers and should be considered to go hand in hand especially for hobbyists. Do you have a Tig machine or a friend who has one? Just fill it and mill it back down and no scrap! Thanks for the vid! Makes me want to make myself a couple special purpose tool holders.
Carry on bro.
I have a stick welder, but it's not critical or anything, it'll still work fine so I'll probably just leave it. It's just ugly lol. And thanks very much for watching!
@@hersch_tool If you’ve got anything even close to the OCD I have, it’ll drive you insane!!! and you’ll either be making another one or fixing that one… trust when I say “every time you use it it’ll stare at you until you break!” 😂
@@B_T-Weld_Machine I believe you're probably correct lol
Oil mess....kinda like frying 10lbs of 🥓 😁😁
Cheers
Kinda, except you don't have 10lb of bacon to eat when you're done... 🤤
Can it work if you use a TIG torch and do some sort of stainless fill and remachine the bungoed surface?
Luckily it's save-able as it is because it needs to be machined bigger. I just have to figure out how I want to machine it because of the hardness factor. I like the idea of having an ER collet holder for that spindle so I'll definitely try to fix it.
Riveting video!
Lol thanks man
Machining video actually
@@madmodder123 😂
I'm considering changing the water based coolant of my milling machine to cutting oil. But as you just mentioned, it makes a terrible mess. So, I don't know. What do you prefer for your machine?
It's really tough to say. They both have pros and cons. But for high pressure, slower spindle speed machining, especially with HSS cutting tools, I think that oil has a lot of merits. Plus it doesn't cause rust, which is a bonus. So, it's more difficult to clean up, but at the same time you don't have to worry about cleaning it as thoroughly because it won't cause rust. But like I always say, I'm no professional so take anything I say with a pound of salt lol.
Is it possible to change out the spindle to something not so oddball?
Also just weld and remachine the oopsie...
Well, anything is possible lol. And that's definitely a good solution. But it's a non drawbar spindle. So in order to change it out to something like a standard 30 or 40 taper would require a lot of modification to the vertical head which isn't something I'm really keen on doing. The easiest thing to do is likely to just fix the collet holder I have, and either find or make a couple of additional tools and be done with it. Only have to do all that once, and then I have tooling. And it doesn't need to be welded, just needs more material removed, so it really shouldn't be that big of a deal fixing it. It's just hardened, so I have to use appropriate tooling. Thanks very much for watching!
Many sharp has different spindles or make one.
Lol, I'll make some tool holders if I need to. I think I'm good on making a new spindle.
I expect he took the temper out of the steel did his cutting and then retempered it. You can take the temper out of it yourself and send it in and get someone to put it in with a batch to be retempered (or buy / build a kiln )>
I can harden and temper steel in my shop, but the issue with doing that with a part like this is that it's been hardened and ground to a TIR of about .0004" Heating and cooling the steel to that degree I'd be worried about throwing out those tolerances. it's actually a decent quality tool holder. He hard milled it, which is probs what I'm gonna do. Just need to use a good cutting tool, coolant, and patience to keep heat down during the process.
Well .... that sucked.... Thx for the vid.
lol, yep... nothing like the feeling of your stomach expeditiously making it's way to your feet...
If you use carbide,coolant and go slow.i machined hard steels,and i was surprised how carbide handles.
Yeah that's what my first plan of attack will be. I think it'll go fine as long as I'm careful like you said.
Man, I wouldn't call that crashing your mill. A tool holder failed. I have an apprentice mark in my vice from the time I learned aluminum likes to suck end mills out of collets.
Haha thanks, makes me feel a bit better lol. And yeah, brass is the same way, especially with drills, will pull it right in
well well well, ain`t you posting a lot of stuff lately... Nice to see at any rate! I will likely creep outta my bed with something aswell at some point in the near future... This kind of stuff helps keep me sane during this disgusting season we call the winter... Oh well, you just reminded me that i need a decent parting blade... Maybe an Iscar or something similar for carbide inserts... Also, a BETTER parting tool holder wouldn`t be a bad idea either, what with HSSCo steel blades and Carbide flat blanks that i have...
Speaking of that toolholder, yuh, that design is crap... Not saying that it can`t hold a tool, but a small section that clamps down and just the barest excuse for a 3 point retaining mechanism is not a good design... No need to excuse yourself for shitting on the default design... I much prefer the hinge style of clamps - where the blade sits in a tapered half slot with a false V in the bottom, has support on the side, on the bottom and a bit on the side towards the chuck, but the top section is a swing clamp that mashes down on the whole length of the tool in the holder, ramming it in the lower section with unyielding rigidity - quite akin to your design... Parting even with a dead sharp tool is a high load operation, relying on a small wedge tab to retain a parting blade is simply silly...
All the best!
Steuss
P.s. The oil setup is something that i love! I know that it`s a bitch, and a fuming one at that, but honestly, it`s the best thing there is for both the cutters and the machine... No rust, lubrication of everything... The vise jaws get lube, the surface finish is better, just an overall champ when compared to regular water soluble ``oil`` system... A bitch, but the best one there is... However, i would advise you to make up an extractor system for that crap... Those fumes are everything but desirable in the respiratory sys...
P.p.s. Ok buddy, you are talking projects here, but you have a project on your hands that you aren`t even addressing... MAKING OF 50 MILL HOLDERS... Just slap a rod in the chuck, make a bunch of those and save yourself the grief... I don`t know about your grinding capacities, but i would wager that you could hardturn those with cbn on your lathe after a home-shop-heat-treatment... Get some decent steel, go to a scrapyard and get some saucy rods, they can be had for cheap if you are lucky... That isn`t such a complex geometry, just run the centers and give yourself a round feature for a drive-dog... That way you can cbn turn them after hardening...
Thanks man, and yeah I know that at least for me a lot of the problems that I had early on with parting operations was the tool holder. I feel like it probably contributes to overall stigma of cutoff ops for hobbyists in general. A lot of people have aloris style tool holders, and a lot of people struggle with cutoff ops.
@@hersch_tool I updated the comment a bit, so you can check it out if you care to... In short, brother, you gotta make a whole bunch of mill holders, this just ain`t something that you can run with... It`s gonna drive you nuts... It`s either that, or a replica spindle with a different taper setup...
@@camillosteuss Yeah I'll figure something out.
👍👍👍
Do you have plans to make something other than tools?
Lol what else is there!??! 😂
@@hersch_tool Well, machines! I mean, it's right there in your logo!
😉
@@darkwinter7395 Well, I mean, one could argue that the machines are also tools... 😉
👍👍😎👍👍
Thanks!
HSS parting tools are junk in my experience. I bought a carbide insert parting tool and have not looked back since. Cuts like butter on my small Grizzly lathe.
Make chips that dont need dips.
Forge On!!!
Lol chips no dips! I like HSS parting blades for their versatility, but I have carbide too. I tend to use whichever one will work well for whatever I'm doing at the time. HSS blades are good once you get used to em, especially if you get decent blades and use a good rigid tool holder... 😉 thanks very much for watching btw!