The History of Standardized Sizes in Womens Fashion and Why They FAILED
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
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Why do standardized sizes exist and why don't they work? Or, more specifically, why do we continue to use them when we know they don't work? Standardized sizes have a complex history which actually starts long before specific measurements were set down. And much like our many other systems in place, they weren't meant to be set in stone for all eternity.
Shoes were the first to lay down a standard set of measurements. Though the way we look at sizes has changed dramatically from the 19th c. The system used to be far more confusing and complex, with a variety of lengths and widths that provided customers with a huge range of options. When people started pulling boxes off the shelf themselves, instead of receiving advice from salespeople, the nuanced system with coded sizes had to change to keep up. Less confusion for customers meant fewer choices, and that meant less unsold stock sitting on the shelves for businesses. They thought it was an improvement, but really we're just left with a lot of shoes that don't fit.
Before we put little numbers on tags in our clothing or shoes, items were custom fit. Dresses were made to your shape and often required little to no actual measurements. Fabric was draped around the body to fit, so all of your garments were YOU sized and the numbers didn't matter. It wasn't until the late 19th c that fitted garments started to be sold pre-made and mass manufactured. With the rising popularity of mail order catalogs and department stores a new system was needed. Originally garments were labeled by the ideal bust or waist measurement meant to fit into them. But as clothing became more fitted and slim, there was less room for adjustment or alteration to fit various body proportions and something had to be done to better understand the range of bodies the fashion industry was trying to fit.
No matter how broad the 1939 sampling was (it wasn't), there was no way to come up with a standardized size system that fit everyone. And that was never the point! Fashion companies were encouraged to go outside of that system and to come up with their own based on their customers and style preferences. Add in the prolific tendency towards vanity sizing and you get the mess we have today. The hard part now is finding ways to fix the inherent issues of assigning self worth to a random number and learning that bodies are just weird and unique and that's OK. Clothing should fit us, not the other way around, and there are ways to help fix that!
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00:00 Introduction
02:44 Why we need standard sizes
06:19 Shoe Sizes
18:28 Clothing Sizes
32:48 How to fix it
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Fantasy: clothes with seam allowances in strategic spots that allow for adjustments (especially hems). I think men’s suits do this.
That is the dream. Also a lot of men's trousers have side adjusters so the pants adjust to your body size fluctuations instead of needing to have them tailored every time your weight fluctuates by 10-20 lbs. Very upset that this is not more standard in women's trousers. But also yes, more seam allowance please!
Literally researching this and many other adjustment tecniques to incorporate in my own clothing lines. It's amazing how hard good information for this is to find. History is sometimes the only place I can find it.
@@joakescarnival8303 in a certain way is the fashion industry itself that tries to avoid using seam allowances so that as soon something doesn't fit you anymore you have to buy something new
And waist placement on dresses. I would love to be able to take a dress and lower the waist because most dresses are just a tad too high on my torso.
@@dariosilvestri473 absolutely! The fast fashion industry most especially, which is most of it. Also doing the more skimpist possible seams that rip out to squeeze that extra pannel in, build in obsolescence on quality/durability, and because they want you to buy more. Most clothes nowadays are not even worth tailoring because of their quality. Not that they make them with much extra to tailor in anyways. You can go a size up to make up for it but good luck if its height or a certain area that isnt easy to adjust with just a size up. Or if the size up throws off the important fit areas.
A big pet peeve I have is the trend of people advertising clothes by showing a model wearing it and saying what size they are wearing and never giving a size chart. HOW does this help anyone?! I would absolutely love more detailed size charts, especially with online shopping.
RIGHT!!! like this ONLY helps me if I know the height and weight of the model.
Right? Are you supposed to just eyeball the model and be like "she looks four sizes smaller than me" and buy based on that???
It also sucks when the size chart shows your size but they don't actually sell garments in that size
@@brandielee7971 While height is helpful, weight isn’t as much because bodies carry the same number of pounds totally differently.
There is a plus-sized clothing company in the UK that has both the sizes the model is wearing and a size chart. However, their models all seem to be 5' 9" and upwards. Not a lot of help when I'm only 5' 5". In addition their models all seem to be sizes 16/18, I'm a 24. I just know that the clothes that look stunning on the models will make me look like a sack of potatoes tied in the middle.
Ah to be a shopper in the 1900s where someone in the store can actually help you find something to fit you
That would honestly be a relief. I'm pushing 30, yet I never seem to have grown out of the "Juniors" sizes. Not much in business formal, or even business casual for that matter.
@@sirenofthesea7802 my granny had the same issue and became a professional seamstress out of sheer rage lmao
@@brandielee7971 I've come close. But good on your grandmother. It's the old "you want something done right, you do it yourself" mentality that really motivated the best of people in life.
@@brandielee7971 I'm with your Granny on this one! I'm sewing my own stuff cause what's on the market su*k!
Some stores do that. The store where I work does; it's part of our training. They tend to be the slightly more expensive stores, rather than an outlet or somewhere like TopShop for example. :)
There's so much frustration in finding "standard" clothes that fit, but the worst is when you go by all the measurements on their size chart and then the garment is a COMPLETELY different size than stated. WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT OF HAVING THE CHART ANYMORE
Yeah, I remember being astonished the first time I went online and found sizes PERIOD, but then it didn't even help! Now I've started saving up and buying clothing on etsy (linen particularly), where I not only have a chart of the body size, but often an explanation of the actual fit of the garments and sometimes the garment measurements too, AND the seller also takes my measurements. And I can express whether I want it to fit like on the models or not, etc. I really don't want to buy clothes any other way ever again. I dread even considering it.
I wish there was a stronger emphasis on alterations these days. I have soo many skirts that got too big for me around the waist but fit perfectly around my wide hips. If companies could emphasise sizing more as a guide and boast about how easily alterations could be made, it could start something amazing. Imagine if shops on the high-street had alteration tokens that you could take to the local tailor to get your garment fitted properly.
I've been having to adapt trousers and skirts since I started to buy clothes, because the 65/100 waist to hip proportion. And I've been asking for that 'feature' to come back. Do you know that Zara at the beggining had this section for garment alteration? They stopped having seamstress at the shops when they expanded like a wild beast. (The same with the fabric quality, they started with extremely good quality fabric and now they only have... well, cheap fabric).
Sadly, that doesn't fit into the consumerist, fast fashion society we currently exist in. I would love it to be true though, I wish that getting something altered wasn't so expensive, as I hate having clothes that only sort-of, technically fit.
@@escaramujo does adapting pants and skirts work for you? My measurements are similar at 58 cm waist 95/96 hips and I would love it if altering pants etc. could work.
There's a store called UniQlo which I went into in London and they had the option to get their jeans altered there for a small fee. Unfortunately the alteration I needed would have been to make them longer & they didn't have enough of a turn up in the bottom seam to allow for that, so I didn't even bother trying any on, but for people who needed things altering down that was very handy.
Shops and department stores used to make the alterations in the garments they sold. it was part of the service.
What I hate are companies that list measurements, but them when you look at the measurements its "on the flat" and not the oval/circular size as it would be on your body. Especially on womens clothes, we dont tend to "flatten" as well as men do. It is completely annoying. Also, I hate how us busty girls have next to no representation in any fashion segment. I can't count the times I have had to order up several sizes just to accommodate my chest. Sorry companies, I just wish fast fashion would die!!!
I'm the opposite... I'm the fluffy girl without the matching fluffy boobs....so the shirts never fit right. Totally agree on fast fashion needing to die...we need to go back to mindset of quality made -alterable- clothes. The older I get, the less I care about trends (never really cared but care even less now) and care more about finding things that make you feel good and look good when you wear them.
One website I used to buy from had you input your mesurements, shape and wanted fit to determine what size you should buy. They got rid of it a while ago though.
Understand. I am 34H and 29 jeans.
I have a deep rib cage and big shoulders, so I totally feel this comment. My shoulders are 40 inches around and I will absolutely destroy some women's tops if I try to do anything but sit quietly in them, and don't get me started on sleeves. I've started going to the men's section for certain things because they actually list measurements on the tag.
@@sissymarie2912 I wear mens trousers bc I have calf muscles (so unladylike) and want big pockets.
I can't fit my phone in women's skinny pockets
Love that closing comment "We were never meant to define ourselves as a single number size"
This video needs to play on a loop at all bridal shops! The number of women I've seen complain about the size number they were being put into is just ridiculous! We took measurements and based on that knowing you would most likely need alterations somewhere. Why does it matter if your dress is a 2 or a 10? It's just a damn number and no one knows it but you! What always matters is what the fit looks like!
Not to mention, a lot of it depends on your bone structure. I was an absolute twig pre-kids, but because my hips and shoulders are wide, as a full grown young adult I was always size 5 jeans and size M in shirts. Not sure what number size I was in dresses, I had my wedding dresses entirely custom made, and other dresses are kind of inconsistent as to whether they use numbers or S/M/L. But I will never be a size 2 in pants and don't plan on ever fitting a size 5 again (I wasn't unhealthy before, my body is just different now). The number has nothing to do with how thin or healthy you are and people need to stop interpreting it that way.
Wedding dresses are still made in the sizes from the 60s and 70s. Vanity sizing has not effected the bridal industry. I am a size 6/8 in ready made, which is the exact size I was in the in 1981. Yet there is not a hope I could squeeze my body into any of the clothing I wore back then. I have my wedding gown and I know I can not fit into it.
So that is where the problem is. People are use to vanity sizing.
It has effected men's wear as well. If you measure men's pants the waist can be up to 8 inches bigger than the stated waist. I take a measuring tape when buying pants for my husband now.
that's because of diet culture and internalized fatphobia. To that customer there's probably a lot of self worth in a lower number. It's constantly pushed on women in society. Whatever body type is ideal at the time is worshiped and women are pushed to conform. It's not her fault.
Considering how much self image women have tied up around the number, and how important it is for women to feel pretty on their wedding day, I'm surprised that the "meaningless number" on webbing dresses isn't *smaller* than standard off the shelf sizes
@@ThatOneLadyOverHere I'm the same way. I'm 5'7 and at my minimum weight (or close to), I'm still a size 4-6 pants and a size 8 dress (busty). I have seen shorter women with less chest, wear a size 4 and look chubby, while I have basically no body fat at that size. Inches around don't always equate to body fat.
This is why I gave up 'the high street' for clothing many years ago. I decided that this industry wasn't made for my body, size, shape or squishiness. I couldn't get trousers that went up my thighs, that were not gaping at the waist, I couldn't get jeans that went over my actual bottom (low risers everywhere simply excluded me, my bottom wasn't made for those kind of pants, but you couldn't find ANYTHING else at the time. If I got dresses or shirts that went over my boobs, there was a vast expanse of space at the back of the shirt OR just hanged from me shapeless in a large rectangle, hiding my curves and making me look like a massive block. It was hideous, I felt unattractive and the final straw was when I was in my mid 20s and was trying on the same shirt as an elderly woman. I thought, 'They think only elderly women wear these clothes, they don't care about me at all' and that was it, I walked away from it. So my clothes are usually brought online, by independents or vintage shops for the style, I don't care if people think my style is eccentric, I don't mind being looked at, but I would never support an industry that doesn't support me.
I completely agree. After hours of looking for a prom dress, my mom ended up making mine... And it was MADE for me, so I didn't look completely like a sack!
I've definitely gone to thrift shops when current trends didn't work for my "bubble butt." When the economy goes south, clothing is made with less yardage. I learned this in fashion merchandising class! We are imundated with skimpier clothes to choose from, not just sleevess tops but shorter ones, shorter skirts and shorts, and, of course, lower waistlines. All to make fashion more affordable. Amazing, isn't it?!?
Stitch Fix has been a Godsend.
@@lindasevers5109 The low waistline came from McQueen's collection Highland Rape. It's an incredible collection, models staggered down the catwalk representing Scottish women who had been raped by English soldiers when they invaded Scotland. The models were meant to look like their clothes had been ripped and pulled off and a low waistline emphasised that. McQueen also designed this silhouette because he wanted to highlight the bottom of the spine, which he considered beautiful. While I'm sure manufacturers weren't complaining about saving money on material, it was not the only reason why low waistlines came into fashion. It's a shame to remember it as cheap fashion when the history behind it had such an important and poignant message.
I haven't really had the opportunity to figure out my new size or style since having kids almost 4 years ago and was recently just trying to figure all that out. (And now I'm pregnant again, so I guess I'm just gonna wait a few more years...) But I am having the hardest time finding shirts that actually look good on me with current styles, which shocked me! I have a long body, hip dips, and a lower butt. I've got nice hips and butt, but I don't look good in most high waisted pants or skirts, and those are what are in style now. I thrived during the low rise era, which is when I grew up, everything always looked good on me. But now that shirts aren't made for low rise jeans they all hit me at a really awkward spot and I realized that I actually need really long shirts for them to rest on my hips right and flatter my figure. It was just mind blowing how in the space of a few years everything went from fitting me perfectly to just not, and I don't foresee it going back any time soon because I think the high rise style suits more people than low rise.
As a former shoe salesperson a an old school type store where we measured feet, having hidden sizes sounds like a dream. It’s also a damn shame that most manufacturers no longer make widths, so if you have wide or narrow feet I highly recommend supporting brands that do so they don’t also stop!
This is why my shoe purchases would be restricted to Red Wing and New Balance if I could afford not to shop at Walmart. As it is, I have to buy shoes 2-3 sizes too big so they'll be wide enough.
I think to remember it being pretty common for shoe stores in Germany to have shoes in wide, medium, narrow up to about 2000 - but that's become very uncommon nowadays. Although I have to admit that for my last few purchases I went to the "leftovers" section of a large local shoe store (where they put all the shoes that they only have one or two pairs left of). And I'm also a medium width, so it's less of a problem for me. But my mum, who's a 34, or a friend's husband, who has wide feet, always struggle finding shoes. (My mum usually gets sent to the kids' section …)
Aleria Carventus. Absolutely! I have been buying my shoes, clothing and accessories from other countries [UK, France, Mexico, Australia, Romania, Japan] customized. Some of those places are niche, family-owned, and have excellent workmanship!
I found these places over time. Haven't been to the shopping mall for the past eleven years!
For me that's not optional. I can't put my feet into standard shoes.
I've been replacing my work shoes and house shoes with Orthofeet shoes. They have width sizes and toes boxes that are wide and (in most cases) tall. They are online but have a free wrong size return policy. They cost about the same as New Balance but get on the mailing list for constant sales from 20% to 40%. I forgot to mention how adjustable many of their designs are. The only sandals I wear now.
“Had 5 widths available” , ok I need to lay down for a bit, FIVE!! widths available, why did we stop that? Most shoes are too wide for my feet and having width sizes would make it so much easier for me to find shoes
Some brands still do this, like new balance, softwalk, Ros Hommerson and Blondo
@@KathrynsRavens oh wow really? Sadly I’ve only heard of new balance so I don’t think I will find the other brands in the shops here easily, and for new balance I haven’t seen multiple widths available in the shops here, but that might just be because it isn’t easily available in my country, so I tend to shop for brands that are known for accommodating narrower feet :/ (but thank you, I’ll keep an eye out for the other brands when I’m looking for new shoes)
Same! Lost count of the number of shoes I’ve bought that are too wide or too short and so are uncomfortable and remain barely worn! 🥴
Actually, 9 standard widths (AAA through EEE), with an additional 4 extended widths (AAAAA through EEEEE). But you had/have to go to the better shoe stores, stores that also sold/sell orthopaedic shoes, etc. I think New Balance (athletic shoes) goes up to 6E, Bostonian (men's dress shoes) to 5E. It's mostly women's clothing and shoes that have gotten short shrift because, well, women don't count (men designing, manufacturing, and wholesaling clothes to - in many ways - fit their fantasies of what women should look like).
I am a size 9-AAAA .. super narrow. It's interesting to me that almost everyone I know has foot discomfort. My feet are 100% .. is this because I was careful to wear my true size for the past 60 years? Very limited choices such as black or brown pumps or lace ups but with my size, I really can't walk properly in regular width shoes.
Omg! Can I just get a properly drafted, sized, and fitting arm hole?! Arm holes are NOT one size fits all.
I wear plus sizes, and you can always tell the shirts whose patterns were just generically up sized and not purposely drafted for plus size because the armhole goes halway to the waist.
@@cincocats320 Actually this is how average size range too are drafted right now, at least in fast fashion price range. I guess the idea is to get as many different bodys to fit within the garment and then the actual fit does not matter? I hate those big arm holes with a passion, because they restrain movement so much. I have a disproportionate short torso and the last couple of years all armhols goes down to my waist and don't let me raise my arms.
I've been working on sizing a vintage pattern. The bodice went fine, added two inches front and back; done. I had to add TEN inches to the arm width!! I'm not sure WHO that pattern was originally drafted for, but I don't think I've ever met a woman with arms THAT skinny!
Yeah my upper arms if going by the standard size chart currently most up to date for clothing manufacturers to base their sizes off, then they work out at a UK 22-24. But like I wear UK 10/12 for my clothes. I just have to only pick stretchy fabric so that there is space for my upper arms to fit.
Yep. Usually armholes are huuuuuuge, but once in a while you hit a garment built for teeny tiny stick people with abnormally high armpits. I understand small armscyes for tailored items (hello Chanel tweed jacket), but not for silk shirt dresses...
This is so so nice to learn. I grew up with my grandparents and my granny was a well proportioned, but SMALL adult female. Often getting mistaken for a 12 year old even well into her 30s.
Out of sheer frustration, she started making her own clothes. Out of meeting others with the same frustrations she became a professional seamstress working out of her house to fit any hard to fit woman that would drive to her. Some women would drive from two or three hours away to be seen by her. Overly tall, oddly shaped, uneven proportions, she did it all. The clients bought the patterns and the fabric and she did the modifications.
I'm not as good as her. She was done with all that when she adopted me. But I have her machine and out of all the people I know, I'm the only one that regularly sews and practices tailoring techniques.
I also grew up with my grandma, who was an amazing seamstress. But in my homeland there are seamstresses everywhere. You can find two or three in any given neighbourhood (because we still have some habits from the XIX century), so having your clothing taylor made or altered to fit you is usual and very affordable. I remember learning to hand sew at 3 yo, and to seeing my own clothes at 8, going to choose the fabrics since I learned torun, etc... I'm not that good at sewing because I lack 'rolling' I guess. But I'm trying to learn fast to honour my grandma's memory.
I started sewing my own clothes for that reason. I'm bigger, and have a large bust, and if I want a shirt to close, the necks were always huge! Then there's 16in between my hips and waist. Once I found patterns that fit, it was amazing having clothes that fit and look nice.
You are gifted and much needed.
It is for basically the same reason I am learning to sew. I am just so fed up with modern clothing sizing (and often quality). I hate how few things are flattering on me and the materials chosen for many things. And don't even get me started on pockets! 😂 So now I am learning to sew and, hopefully, within a few years I will be on my way to transitioning my wardrobe to things I actually like and look good in!
Heartwarming family history ❤
As a woman who is somewhere between regular sizes and tall sizes, I am always really glad to find women's pants with an inseam measurement, and I dream of the day when I can buy a shirt or a sweater and be able to confirm that the sleeves are going to be long enough. I don't need any more "accidentally 3/4 length" tops :).
I haven't had a top that sleeves buttoned at the wrist in years. Women's are going to be like you said 3/4 sleeve and a guy's/unisex sleeve is going to be midway down my hand.
PREACH, oh my god this is frustrating. Me, I've got wide shoulders and it throws off nearly ever shirt I ever try at [insert popular clothing store here]. I often have to give up and grab a men's shirt if I want the proportions to fit me comfortably and/or not look like a poncho from the shoulders down.
Seriously, I bought three women's button-up shirts recently - two were three sizes bigger than my t-shirt size just to allow for comfortable arm movement, but this leaves several inches to spare everywhere else. Meanwhile, the one that fit my torso better is just BARELY too small in the shoulders, but I put up with it because... well. Because pretty. Guess that's my interview shirt, there is no arm-waving or stretching in interviews. It'd just be nice to be able to wear a thing I look good in on a normal basis for once.
I've been buying mostly guys jeans since high school (I'm in my 50s now), sleeves and length of tops is even worse. Sizing in women's clothes is whacked, always has been. If measurements are given then that really helps. I buy where I can get an inseam and a waist measurement, unfortunately because of customer vanity, a lot of women's clothing manufacturers lie about the measurements, if they give them.
Me but I’m in the opposite direction. I’m in between a regular and a petite
Tall Girl issues, YES!!!! and the Tall brands that only add 1-2in to length, sure that works for most on the low end of the tall spectrum, but give that to a girl that's 6ft and it's still likely to be " too small".
I walk around with a measuring tape in my purse just in case I randomly decide to go shopping.
Im gonna do that ❤
This is a big part of why there is so much clothing available second hand but never worn
and also missing buttons.
Which in turn is why there's such a better selection in second hand stores for women vs men
Ohmygod. I never thought of it, but I think you're probably right.
Back in the 1980s my mother took part in a survey of women's sizes. She and a friend were out shopping and a member of staff approached them and asked if they would mind being measured. They agreed and every possible measurement was made and recorded. They were rewarded with vouchers to spend in the store.
I miss having shoe sizes that were specified by both the ball width and the heel width. Wonderful for people with narrow heels compared to the size of the ball of their foot.
*cries in all the blisters that have been suffered through in 30 years
Absolutely! When I think of all the shoes that I've finally found a wide enough toe width on that then flopped off my heel . . . .
Yes please! Usually end up needing a tight strap or laces to keep my heel in place while my toes need room in all the directions. Makes shoe shopping such a pain.
Yeah. I exclusively (well for the most part) wear lace up boots for this reason. I have very narrow ankles so shoes tend to just fall off. But boots which I can lace up on my calf will stay put even if there is excess space in the heel. Lots of high heels also don't work because I have a high instep and a low ankle bone (doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but sure) so the straps if they have them often don't hit at the right height and the shoes are often so low in the sides that there's no hope of my wider forefoot holding the shoe on. And then to be comfortable in shoes I have to wear socks (or thick tights) which rules out lots of other options just because they look awful with socks. Like sandals. Just can't wear them as I can not bing myself to go all British tourist in the Mediterranean in socks & sandals. LOL So I just don't wear them.
I have feet like a duck...narrow at the back, wide at the front and flat!
As someone who has had a short, wide foot since high school, I cannot count the number of times I’ve been told a shoe style doesn’t come in wide width. Combine that with a need for petite length clothing that doesn’t assume that I have a tiny bone structure . . . I would cheer the return of custom-fitted clothing and shoes.
I have big feet which are best described as freakishly long and bony but strong arched. My well articulated toes are narrow. Overall my feet are of such a width that is surprisingly proportionate for the size. This means men's footwear just fits more comfortably. Unfortunately, this also means high heals that are flattering have always been elusive.
We've gotten spoiled by the prices, unfortunately. There are places that offer more fitted clothing, but the cost puts it out of range for a lot of people because wages did not keep up with inflation.
I understand the petite sizing.. Yes I'm 5'1 but I'm not tiny otherwise, I'm average in most other ways but petite clothing assumes I'm super thin. I'm not a child or automatically skinny just because I'm petite 😐
@anz10 in another comment, a clothing salesperson discussed having to explain often that petite sizes are intended for smaller proportioned bodies, not just shorter ones. The lack of short sizing for regular to large proportioned bodies is yet another example of how standard sizing fails with its assumptions.
Oversize being popular these days is probably a way for the manufacturers to achieve "one size fits all body types" goal. Although "fits" is one way to put it. Human bodies have too many variables unfortunately.
P.S. The Murdoch's Mysteries is amazing.❤
Second-hand shopping has practically stopped me from thinking about clothing sizes. Since many items have the tags removed, or in older garments never even had tags, it's just up to me and my tape measure to decide if something fits or not. I think blindly picking a standard size is how fast fashion just speeds up your consumption.
I buy a lot of clothes second hand online and I always ask for the measurements. The amount of people who don't know what I mean by that is staggering. So often people get back to me just saying "It's a size 12". Thst doesn't mean anything! Most don't have a measuring tape either. Education is definitely needed.
I never buy clothing or shoes online. Not worth the effort and time involved sending things back, as they will not fit.
I used to sell clothes on Poshmark, and I can't imagine why anybody selling used clothes online wouldn't buy a measuring tape! They're only $1 at many stores!
@@TheSameYellowToyAnd free at IKEA (paper ones, but still workable, and they'll give you a bunch if you ask nicely).
I worked retail 30 years, and had to explain to customers A LOT that petite sizes were not just a shorter hem but but structured in proportion throughout the entire garment, such as the ratio between hip and torso. A woman with short torso could get away with petite if she didn't mind a shorter over all length.
Flashing back to selling children's clothes and trying to explain that no, not all five-year-olds wear a size 5.
And this is why I'm trying to learn to sew my own clothes. It's more of a hassle to shop for something that may fit me, look half decent and that I actually like then it is to sweat my way through fitting patterns I'm still learning how to use. Shoes at least I can find the basics the fit.
Good luck with your sewing endeavours
I'm the same. Growing up I always wanted 40s and 50s style skirts but the shops were just not selling them at the time. Even without the hassle of getting it to fit I just couldn't find what I actually liked.
You won't end up crying in the dressing room either. I'm right there with you learning how to sew my own clothes.
Once you figure out your basic body shape and how EACH pattern manufacturer prints patterns for that body shape. You can pull the pattern out of the envelope, make the adjustments, cut the fabric and have a garment in no time that fits. Or if you are like me, I like the neck line of that pattern, the body of that one and the sleeves to that one. The key to Frankensteining the three patterns together is the first number or two of the pattern. If you can get them the same it is real easy to mix and match pattern pieces.
I have found learning to sew also helps me buy clothes. I know if I buy a skirt suit, the jacket will be one size larger so I have to decide if the skirt can be altered. Usually I take it in by making it an elastic waistband because it probably won’t be seen.
I always say that when you buy ready made you have to compromise on something. It is often fit, price or quality that you need to sacrifice, and i'd rather wear exactly what i want.
Thank you! As a woman who is larger in the chest I’m tired of being made to order/buy clothes 4 to 5 sizes too big just for it to fit one part of my body. I then have to take said garment to a seamstress to have it fitted to me. In fact I’m so tired of it I’m learning how to fit clothes to myself. I’m now starting to learn to draft things and make then because I’m not “normal.” Historical patterns are very helpful in how they were made/drafted. Who he’s how I came to the historical dress community. So I for one am going to follow your advice and become size aware when giving my reviews. Thank you again for your wonderful take and how to make it better.
TheClosetHistorian works pretty exclusively one making patterns off a standard block pattern and has started a series focused on teaching people how to make there own block patterns to then modify. The channel is already a great source for learning how to adjust patterns to take it from one style to another and with teaching how to make our own blocks shall be even more so.
"Get more widths" ... as a woman with a shoe width of EE or EEE, I applaud this!
Dolphin shoes
Finding a size 11 narrow used to be my nightmare.
Every shoe needs to come in at least five widths and at least three shapes: Tapered, Oval and Flared. Flared feet in a world of Tapered shoes lead to a lifetime of embarrassment, pain and eventual disability from the actual bone damage the shoes cause. It's modern foot-binding and it's time to end it. And wearing extra-wide shoes on flared feet leads to slippage and achilles tendinitis due to the wide heel.
High five, wide foot club!
7A
Also PLEASE take into consideration the lenghth of the upper and lower body! As someone with a very big chest and a long upper body the waist of everything hits about 10cm (4 inches) above my waist.
It took me many years of buying clothes and a year of making my own to figure out why seemingly every piece of clothing lookes kind of unflattering on me.
This is such an underrated problem as it effects everything from blouses to dresses and pants (also jumpsuits are the devil)
Also this has almost nothing to do with your height and still differs between people with the same torso lengh.... argh
I meant "upper" and "lower" upper body as in the space from shoulder to waist and waist to crotch. English is hard sometimes :D
This is also my problem. I’m 5 ft 10 ins but stand me next to a friend who is 5 ft 3 and our legs are the same length. All that extra length is in my back. Finding long enough tops has been a chore all my life, and dresses that have a waist seam look like regency empire line on me.
I thought the dog behind you was a fluffy blanket for the longest time until they moved their head and I was like “ah!...aweeeeee...”
The system that you describe at the end of the video already exists in lingerie, more specifically in the little world of non-standard bra sizes. There's a ton of ressources available on how bra sizing works, what type of bra wil fit you depending on the shape of your breasts, etc. Even before buying a bra, you will already have acquired the vocabulary to talk about bra fitting.
A website like Bravissimo already has a review system, where someone can info like their usual size, the size they bought, and leave a review about the way that specific bra fitted them in that specific size (Too big in the cups! Too small in the back! Goes too high under the arm! Good support, poor support,etc)
The reason I think this works is mostly that the women who shop there care enough about their undergarments to take the time to educate themselves and find something that fits, and then let the business know exactly how well or badly it fitted. I'm not sure that everyone will care as much about shirt sizes, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
When I first started wearing a bra, my mom took me to a local store that still had the salespeople help you find the correct bra size. Unfortunately that store went out of business, and it’s been a struggle buying bras ever since. Yes, there are other places that will fit you but I find the salespeople hit or miss on their ability to actually fit me correctly. The local store always had knowledgeable sales people. It really is sad how much we’ve lost in terms of having skilled workers help us dress ourselves. Not all of us are interested enough in fashion to spend the time figuring all the details out. I am learning for myself but to be honest, if I was able to pay for it, I would.
This is one of the reasons I stopped wearing pants. As I grew into my adult body, I found it increasingly difficult to find pants that fit over my comparatively bigger thighs and hips, and still not sag or even drop around my waist. The worst experience for my body dysmorphic self when I had to last minute get black pants for job. The only pair I could find within my price range was 4 whole sizes bigger than my regular one - the other ones didn't fit over my thighs. Even with a belt that thing kept slipping down over my b*ttcrack - thanks, hip dips.
One of the many reasons I prefer dresses now. They are also usually more forgiving when it comes to fluctuations in weight.
I’ve stopped wearing pants for a similar reason. If I got to fit the waist, they were 3 miles too long; and if I got to fit the length, I was in the kiddie section and being squeezed in half!
I’m making my own blouses/tank tops now too. One, because I don’t like to have my breasts exposed (why wear a shirt at all at that point?) and two, because I have short arms - all my sleeve patterns have been taken in by 2 inches and just bought a vintage reproduction pattern where the 3/4 sleeve fits me perfectly as a long sleeve!
Same. I haven’t worn pants in probably 15 years. Dresses are so much easier, more comfortable and more forgiving. I hate pants with a firey passion.
@@danigolightly799 Me too. Only wear them for painting the shed!
Me too. If it fits me around. It's more likely very long. I'm short with short arms and legs. But extra curvy.
Haha, I tend to prefer skirts and dresses too. The irony in women fighting to be allowed to wear pants is that skirts/dresses actually simply fit the female form better.
As someone who has a bigger waist than hip, due to a hormone condition, it makes it impossible to find clothes that fit comfortably. I can try on 20 pairs of pants that fit in one area, but not another, and of those twenty, maybe one could be fit enough to get by. Right now I have 16s that fit loose, and 22s that are too small.
Don't even get me started on the number of stores that don't carry the larger sizes
I’ve bought pants in the men’s department for years...might work for you too!
I'm also thicker in the waist than the hips (an "apple" figure, not a "pear"). I find most women's pants are designed for the pears. I've had luck buying jeans in the men's department. For shirts, I sometimes shop the maternity department.
@@evelynsaungikar3553 As a bonus you also get bloody *pockets* in them!! >:(
I'm with you on the number of stores that don't carry larger sizes. (And more seem to be getting rid of the "plus' sizes all the time, wtf???) I've been body shamed my entire life because no matter how thin I was (read anorexic for a time), my body was never right to fit into any clothes. I'm big boned, literally. I'd have to have zero flesh or organs to fit into some of those xl misses sizes. I have a shorter than normal distance from underbust to waist, and my waist and hip measurements differ by maybe an inch. Add that my inseam is 34", and finding pants that don't make me look like Urkel from that old sitcom is more than a challenge. Now add in broad shoulders and a proportionally smaller bust, and clothes shopping is hell. If lockdown has been good for anything at all, at least I can work from home in my yoga pants.
Measurements are a dangerous topic around women who are concerned about their weight, as I've found. I mention this to my mom whenever I talk about buying clothes online, and her response is always, "I don't want to know what my measurements are, Bri."
It makes me sad, because I know that shopping by measurements would be easier for everyone. But everyone is so shamed into hating their bodies that at this point I don't know if any clothes would make them feel good about their bodies.
In the sewing community some people prefer to work with the other measuaing system from what they grew up in to avoid the triggers. If you live in an area of the world that uses metric system you measure yourself in inches and sew with american patterns, and the other way around... maybe it works for online shopping too?
I hear you all! For this reason I learned to design and make my own clothing myself. Years of courses were pretty expensive. Making your own clothes is also easily 4-5 times as expensive as everyday clothes, and finding fabrics is problematic. Sewing takes a lot of time and energy I don’t always want to spend on mere clothes… Oh, the frustration!
In Britain there is “Pepperberry clothes” and “Bravissimo bras” that cater specifically to busty women. On the website women post photos of themselves trying on the garments, which is incredibly helpful if you are shopping online!
Btw, I remember 15 years ago even H&M, fast-fashion-extraordinere, had covered seams and extra fabric at the waist of their trousers for easy adjustments. That is history now. It’s “fast and furious fashion “ time.
I was absolutely expecting the bit about women having "bigger feet" was totally going to lead into to women being foot-shamed and contemporary commentary on the degradation of "traditional values" since women were being more athletic, but I am so delighted that it veered into cities bragging about who had women with larger feet. That is SO FUNNY to me!
Same!! I wad very much expecting this to go into a "culture war" type situation before the end of that part was explained :D
That was one of the reasons why I didn’t like King of the Hill growing up. I’ve had big feet ever since I hit puberty, so I hated how a running gag in King of the Hill was Peggy’s insecurity and ridicule for her size 16 feet. It was especially gross in an episode when she met another woman with the same shoes size only to find out she was actually a drag queen. Implying that women with big feet aren’t “real women.”
I wish I had bigger feet. My feet are too small so I end up top heavy and clumsy. 😑
But the taller you are the bigger the foot.
My mother wore 6aaaa shoes, when she could find em. I bet she would have loved larger feet!
As the owner of size 11 A shoes, I regularly read and provide fit information in shoe reviews. It never occurred to me to provide that info for clothing. I'm going to start doing that. Thank you for planting the seed.
I'm the owner of 11.5-12 ww/e feet. The brand I like best has aa-e width shoes, Ros Hommerson.
Thanks. I'll check them out.
I'm a US women's 11 too. I leave generous large comments when it doesnt fit or if it fits and why and were its tight.
I have the exact right measurements for my "size", however clothes in my size never fit. It's as you said, people with the same size can be differently proportioned. It still sucks though 😣.
Saaaaame. My measurements on most brands charts says I'm a size 12.... But I usually wear a size 6 or 8 depending on the brand. It makes me worry to shop online.
@@OfMiceAndDestiny This has been my experience as well. When I was smaller, I fit an 8 or 10, sometimes even a 6 in some brands. I had the odd 12P in my closet. But my measurements said I was a 16! Now I wear an actual 16 and I have no idea what size my measurements say I am but I am wary of buying online unless I know exact to how the brand will fit
It's been years since I have shopped anything but second hand, but even before that I have never had any idea "what size I am", as I quickly realised there is no such thing as "my size". I have clothes all from S to XL that fit me, and the numbered sizes I don't even know, because it's all over the place. I just hold things up to my body and guesstimate before trying it on. I don't even bother putting attention to the size.
You’re you-sized, which isn’t necessarily the same “standard size” everywhere.
I hate answering that "what size are you" question because once I owned bottoms ranging from size 4-12 that all fit.
One day I really needed to buy a pair of pants because I had forgotten to pack a pair. I ended up going through 3 rounds of trying jeans on at the thrift store to find a pair that fit me perfectly. I held them up to me (and yes looked at the tags) and depending on the different brands had me somewhere between a size 6 and 10. Each round I got closer to the correct size and used the waistband to compare to other sizes. It took entirely too long to find a decent pair that fit me. Still pretty much only shop at thrift stores, but now I look at guys jeans where I know they will fit if they are in my measurements.
This is one big reason why I now dread shopping in American stores - I'm quite small, and I got used to having a size chart of actual measurements when ordering cosplay and lolita fashion from overseas, because returning it is generally not an option! Knowing the length of the shoe or bust and hip measurements has often given me a lot better results than knowing what American size I'm supposed to be >_
Abby + Nicole + the Welsh Twins have turned Sunday into my favorite day of the week
Lizcapism is awesome too.
Same here!
If you’d like a suggestion, go watch ThePrettyShepherd too!
Who are the welsh twins?
@@reformvideos4303 skincare and makeup. Robert does makeup and James does skincare. They’re identical.
I’m someone who has a very large bust to waist ratios meaning standard sizes are either gaping off me in the waist or 3 sizes too small in my bust. Before I knew how to alter and make my own clothes it was really frustrating constantly having improperly fit clothing
And on the rare occasion something DOES fit both the bust and the waist.. its still wrong because it's tight in the front and loose in the back. I'm half convinced clothes are made to look neat and tidy on a hanger, with no regard for how they'll fit on an actual person who curves front to back as well as side to side.
I know that frustration, my sewing machine is my best friend. I make sure the bust fits at the front, and reduces the back and waist.
After a not-quite-right fitting dress had some holes put in it by some enthusiastic playing with my baby niece, I cut it apart to make a pattern I could adjust to fit me properly. Increase the bust. Decrease the back. Lower the waist (because combination of tall and busty means I'm lucky if the waist seam is empire, and not actually on my boobs). Increase the hips. Sometimes I wonder why I bother buying anything and don't just make it all from scratch.
@@sarahs4655 Oh yeah, the underbust seams right accross the nipples... When I was pregnant it was a curse because almost all pregnancy shirts had a seam there to show off the belly. I had so much trouble finding fitting pregnancy shirts.
Pants are the worst for this. Hips: just right. Waist: I can wear a belt until I get around to taking it in, I guess. Thighs: oh dear, you didn't think you were going to pull your pants /up/ today, did you?
As someone with really wide and really short feet, finding shoes is so hard and difficult. I usually have to spend a whole day in different stores and it usually ends with me crying behind the sandals and coming back the day after... I would LOVE if you could actually choose different widths so I wouldnt feel like a freak every time I need to buy shoes.
Have you heard of Ros Hommerson or softwalk? I have long wide feet and those brands have some nice shoes in wide and extra wide, I think they start at a US 6 and go to 13
I can sympathize. I just this week spent two hours trying on shoes and feeling like I was hitting my head against the wall. Such a frustrating experience.
Yup, I understand. I have resorted to going to the boys section and looking for 'unisex' styles. Boy's and men's shoes are wider and have a longer toe box than girl's and women's. The other option I have is buying Birkenstock in their standard width. Yes, folks, some of us buy Birkenstocks not because we are old hippies/tree huggers but because they fit. I haven't bought women's fashion shoes in 30? 40? years.
I have the opposite problem, long but narrow feet. On the rare occasions I can find stuff in my size (UK 8-9 depending on style) it's so annoying how many are too wide for me. I remember I once looked at a shop specialising in larger sizes for women and everything was wide fit, which imo defeats the point of having a specialist shop.
SAME. I wear a size 6 1/2 double wide shoe, and that just isn't a size you can find. I end up wearing size 9's to fit the width of my feet, but they're several inches too big. it'd be nice if there were more width options!
Lolita fashion already does the "Include the measurements" deal. Almost every brand (big or indie) has a size table per dress that says what the measurements are for each size. Bust, waist, arm length, skirt length, neck circumferences, etc. I don't mind going up a size or two and buying and XL if I know it will fit me. Commercialization and merchandizing is also to blame, brainwashing us into believing that thinner/smaller is better and thus letting brands get away with ridiculous sizes that ultimately fit no one comfortably.
I'm 5 feet tall, 28" inseam, with hips 48" at the fullest point. OMG, trying to find pants that fit! I have noticed some improvement in recent years, more manufacturers seem to have grasped the concept that short women also wear pants, and that being short does not automatically mean you are skinny. Many are also getting better about listing the inseam length. Also, summer is easier than winter because capris. So yes, things are getting a little bit better, but I think buying clothes will always be hard for a lot of us. I think this video does a good job of explaining why manufacturers simply can't easily make things to fit everybody.
Are you having my crisis of these high rise jeans? I gained a size during quarantine and can't find a pair of jeans that don't hit me at my underbust.
I'm 5'3.5". "Petite" pants are juuuuust too short (they're meant for 5'3" and under) "Normal" pants are too long. I long ago gave up on capris, they just look like my pants are a little too short.
The size range you're looking for is "Women's Petite", which is pretty much a unicorn nowadays. Except: some time in the late 1990s or early 2000s, Petite sizes were changed from something designed for 5'2" to 5'4" to increase leg and arm length so now they fit people 5'6" with short torsos :(
I have a similar problem! I dont think I own ANY pants that haven't been hemmed!!!! I'm only thankful I'm not a super tall gal with a tiny waist. I really feel for them.
This is so very on point. Back when I lived at home my mom sister and I borrowed each other’s tops. My back was much wider than theirs but their busts were bigger. It worked out. For sleeves to fit my sister it had to be covering my hand completely. She wears a lot of 3/4 sleeves! A lot of things are too long for me and too short for her. Bodies are very complicated!! When I was taking fitting courses the teacher said in all her years high school and weekend courses she only found one person that didn’t need any pattern altering!! They measured her over and over cause no one believed!!!
People like that are often able to make money as "fitters' models".
All these reasons is why I sew a lot of my own clothing. My shoulder width/ rest of my frame is petite like XS. But my bust and hip measurements are more in line with a medium plus I am short. Clothes shopping in a store is difficult. Especially this past year with many stores closing the change rooms because of covid.... hence sewing my clothes.
Fascinating, I always wish shoes came with an arch/top of the foot measurement. A foot height category of shoes to go along with width would be amazing.
this is why i want to improve my sewing skills in order to start sewing my own pants from scratch... my waist is like 3 or 4 "sizes" smaller than my hips and it makes something as simple as wearing pants extremely frustrating every single day
I find the shoe size discussion really interesting. For the longest time, I thought my feet were on the large side (sizes 10-11), but after getting some help from a salesperson at an athletics shoe store I learned that I have a left collapsing arch which makes my feet seem longer than they are. With proper arch support, I wear sizes 9-10 depending on the brand and shoe type. I'm really glad I learned this before I started learning ballroom dance and buying dance shoes as the fit for those can be really finicky.
Ooh, yes, dance shoes can be awful to fit properly. Glad you've seen the light and gotten into ballroom, though. :)
In the last few years, I shop only at three stores that stock clothes in sizes that remain the same. It is not a good solution, but it is reliable. Some online stores provide feedback from buyers that the size is the true size. After listening to Nicole, I realized that there might not be a consensus among shoppers on a true size 10. Would I be willing to measure myself and use these measurements to shop? In a hot minute. Nicole's solution is excellent. Signed, a woman who wears slacks in petite length and blouses in regular length.
Napping pupper helps with the explanation of our institutional body image trauma. 🐶❤️😀😑
I feel like the way many clothes are cut these days is designed so much with the ‘ideal’ body proportions in mind, that it can be so demoralising if things don’t fit like they’re ‘meant’ to. For example, I have a very straight figure with narrow hips and, with high waisted garments so popular, I find it almost impossible to find something that fits both my hips and waist. If an item fits my hips, it expects me to have a tiny waist, so the fabric always digs into my stomach and makes me feel so self conscious and negative about myself. Those of us who don’t have the so-called evolutionary ideal shape already feel bad in the current climate without clothing being cut for only one shape.
I have the opposite issue. Jeans are awful because they have such a small difference between waist and hips so if they fit my hips, they gape loads at the waist. They just are not patterned to fit natural hourglass figures. Made me super self conscious as a teen & I used to hate having such a small waist relative to my hips because clothing just isn't made to fit me. Nowadays I just wear stretchy fabric dresses with leggings as then I can buy by my waist size & just let it stretch to fit my hips (and bust for the dress part). So its not even made to suit the "idealised" hourglass figure of 10" larger hips & bust, let alone to work for people like me with a larger difference (12", plus a short torso so my widest point is only 2" below my waist so the proportions are dead wrong!) nor people like you with even less of a difference than they provide.
Five foot even natural hourglass here. I don't even own pants anymore because NOTHING fits. Just full skirts that sit at my waist. Shirts I just try to get to fit my bust (arms and shoulders are hopeless) and I tuck everything in. Vintage has been wonderful for me. Of course then people assume I'm Amish for some reason, but oh well I guess.
same, but i have hip dips, so high waisted anything just isnt going to look good on me. can't wear jeans unless they're mid-rise. I'm forever annoyed that it's impossible to buy a decent, new pair of women's jeans that aren't the current style. even when skinny jeans for men were super in you could still find standard straightleg men's jeans, but for some reason there was a period of time when i couldn't find _any_ jeans that weren't highwaisted. and don't get me started on button flies.....women's pants are a disgrace
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! As someone who has completely given up on pants completely this makes so much sense and makes me feel so much better about never being able to find frikkin' pants.
You can't find pants either?! Let it be known, you are not alone.
Aah pants! The size variation between labels is doing my head in... I have a size 14 pair of jeans which is too large and a size 18 pair of slacks that only just fit me! 🤨
The few best pants I own are sewn in atelier by my measurements. Almost all of my store bought pants and jeans are finalized by the tailor also. This is the only way for me to have clothes that would really fit my body (and will not be sport themed). My usual size is S(36), but since my teenage years I was struggling to find something that would fit me well - I simply do not have flesh on places other people do. So high waist and loose classic pants became the best for me. If I was handy enough I would make clothes for myself with great passion
Two things not discussed here that affect the fit and customer's size selection of ready-to-wear garments: foundation garments and wearing/fashion ease. Prior to about 1970, women were expected to wear constrictive girdles and bras that made their busts, waists, and hips conform to a standard shape and placement; garments were designed with these expectations. Wearing ease refers to the amount of additional space in a garment that is intended to fit more (or less) loosely than "standard". Large amounts of ease make it (pardon the pun) easier for a smaller number of garment sizes to fit a larger variety of women's shapes.
My present frustration with being in mock-up purgatory is the knowledge of 'if I don't figure this out then it just ain't happening'. I'm a petite who looks ridiculous in petite clothing. I'm a plump, curvy 38FF. The cheapest bras I can find are at Nordstroms, fer gosh sakes, and run _only_ at 100$. Trying to teach myself tailoring over Covid is an act of self preservation. I am so tired of finding only clothing that 'kind of' fits.
- Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown
I do not know if they work for large breast sizes (since I don't have those), but the website freesewing.org has open source patterns that use your measurements. So you measure everything, it tells you how that relates to standard sizing, and then it generates a free pattern that should fit you instead of that standard. They don't have a gigantic range of patterns, but the basics are all there and that could help with getting other patterns right too.
@@elzekloen {sorry, I left my jaw around here, somewhere, damn thing went and fell off again}
[is the long way around to saying than you!]
@@stevezytveld6585 That was about my reaction when I found it. I hope it helps you!
This is why I ALWAYS look at the reviews when I am looking at clothes online. Amazon even has rating for clothes that says if the fit is small, large, or true to size. Its gotten to the point that if I don't see a lot of reviews that say "I am X height, X lbs and typically wear a size X and this garment fit me in X way", I don't buy it if I am not familiar with the company.
This was very interesting. I knew the standard sizes for clothes was trash, but it's really interesting to learn how it came to be. Thank you for talking about this topic! I appreciate the better understanding I have! May I also add my voice to your suggestion. As a shorter person with a small bust who has never experienced the joy of finding something that fits, I would love to see more clothes talking about their measurements vs the "size." I think it's a great idea and would help a lot of people avoid the same let downs I experience with virtually every piece of clothing I try on.
My favorite worst experience with clothes size is when I moved states. I needed new pants, so I went to the store, picked up the same brand and size that I was currently wearing, and realized that the new pair was too small. I went from a size 1 long, to a size 5, without any significant weight change
When I moved from Germany to the USA my clothe size changed from a German 38 ( a medium or size 8 here ) to a XS and Yes I lost weight but I’m comparing times of the same weight. In general I think USA sizing is more generous.
@@MileinaJuarez I am from Germany too (I am very average sized too size 40 for tops because of my long torso and slighly bigger bust - pants are a completely different thing though because of my wide hips and big butt ) and while on vacation in France I noticed the complete opposite😂
I tried to get normal clothes and lingerie - but everything was so tiny and I had to size up to French size L and in one case XL😂
French women seem to be damn tiny. The thing is on averge maybe, but I've also seen a lot of different sizes in the street. Especially French people with Arabic or African roots must have their own shops somwhere else because they were all dressed according to their own boy shape🤔
Industrial shoe sizing is awful. My "real" size is past the minimum stocked size for men's shoes, at 5 1/2. It's rare to find a store that stocks anything below a 7 1/2. Styles for men typically bottom out at 6 1/2. I've only ever found my size in men's once: in a pile of bargain store army surplus combat boots in the sizes the Army couldn't actually find a use for. The only other time I found men's shoes that were comfortable was the only pair of hiking sneakers in an entire mall store that were, inexplicably, 6 1/2 W, but I hated how they looked. For years my daily shoes were an ancient pair of unisex Nike runners in women's 7. Most of the time I luck out with a women's pair that aren't aggressively feminine or put up with clown feet.
Have you tried "youth" (i.e. boys) shoes? That's what I have to do for sneakers since I hate how often women's sneakers are white or light grey and don't fit well.
@@natsunohoshi7952 Honestly, shoe shopping has caused panic attacks. This is not a bad suggestion. Right now I'm good for a while since my stable of shoes is in good shape.
In a perfect world, we could all walk into any clothing store and step into a booth in our undergarments, and get a full-body 3D scan that identifies all of our measurements. That scan would output a long string of numbers that is a personalized code for our body. That code would identify which garments in the store will fit our body. That code could also be used for online sales. The code could be updated frequently as the body fluctuates in size. It could be so divorced from standardized sizing, in the same way as the shoe sizing codes were, that vanity sizing becomes a thing of the past. If the app is sophisticated enough, it can even recommend garments that are more likely to be "flattering" for various size configurations. If there's one thing I've learned from watching fashion history videos, it's that every body type was the 'ideal' at some point in history, and the clothing was designed to accentuate that body type. Those principles are still used in fashion. So if the app recognizes that you're a 1950s ideal body type, it could recommend styles that hearken back to 1950s silhouettes and construction.
Exactly! I have dreamt of this too, and not only that, it produces a 3D simulation of the customer's body in any of the clothes offered in the store.
Actually, that's being put in motion. I learnt about it previous semester in class. It might not be soon (or ever if it doesn't get enough investments) but people are working on it.
Yeeesssss..... I've been looking for new jeans and I just wish every company would list the rise, inseam, hip, waist, ankle and thigh measurements...... it would help soo much. I've looked at so many reviews for Levi's jeans and watched videos measuring them. It's exhausting.
oh the struggle. Im a half size and have narrow feet. I fit in vintage shoes quite well but otherwise usually my shoes just feel too wide. Buying shoes online is complete hell.
Also the rise! - crotch to waist is so helpful.
Thank you, Nicole!
I need 18 measurements to draft a pattern for a simple top. No way these could fit into a single size, too much possibilities for variation. It really makes me sad seeing weight loss advertising speaking of clothing sizes as a goal.
Thanks for the background info. Well done as always. :)
Yup, your basic body shape is the same whether or not you are 125lbs or 225 lbs. Shoulder width, back length, waist to knee, your height, all the same. And bits that are out of proportion are still out of proportion.
@@jjudy5869 Even people who weigh the same & have the same height & a similar lifestyle vary wildly
I really like eshakti. They do pay attention to measurements. My sister has a really long torso and they called her to double check her measurements before making her dress.
"If you are an American and you're having a little bit of a panic...."
Nailed it.
I wear a women’s size 5 shoe but I have high arches and wide feet. Finding shoes that actually fit is a nightmare!! Many brands start their sizing with a size 6. I frequently have to go up a full size or even a size and a half to fit my width and I pad the toes to make the shoe sort of fit.
I dream of one day being able to afford a truly customized shoe.
I feel ya. I have flat feet, bunions, big toes that point upwards, and just overall messed up feet. Finding shoes that fit is a NIGHTMARE. My left foot is shorter because of the bigger bunions. My arches are almost non-existent so straps/boots, ANYTHING that relies on a fitted arch fits me weird. It's a pain. I have a pair of American Duchess shoes and I'm just wearing them around the house in socks because I need to torture myself before they fit my messed up fit. Is this AD's fault? Hell no. But they're pretty and damn it, I just wanted pretty shoes *sobs*
Other end of the problem here. One foot is about an 11.5, the other a 10.5. Bought AD 12. Will need to break them in but so cute. One to big, other too little or big and crazy big. If your “size” is even made! Bespoke…… what a happy dream. I can see my clothes, making shoes is a bit more complex.
@@angelmaden1559 Back in the days of the early internets there used to be pairing sites for people with mismatched feet. I'm not sure how the machinery of such a thing would work. But in the end two people came away with the pair that fit them.
- Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown
@@stevezytveld6585 Yes, I once used that sort of system for clothes that was offered by a sporting goods company (pairing a pear with an inverted triangle). It can work but it’s harder than you think to find someone with your same taste and with the overall inconsistency in sizing you can never be sure what will actually fit. I generally just either take a chance or order multiple sizes to find the best fit (split the difference) and send the rest back. That works until the company blames you for excessive returns. Don’t even get me started with companies that make their “plus sized” lines online order only but stock the “regular sizes” in the store. 🤬🤷♀️🤣
@@angelmaden1559 There's got to be a simpler way to get sizing covered in a rational way. Maybe there's a partial answer in the 3D printing tech for on-demand changes?
I'm already trying to learn tailoring. I don't think I have the time or energy to learn to cobble shoes...
Thank you for this!! I’m waaaaay off in proportions from the standard industry body block, and that makes clothes shopping really frustrating, especially with close-fitting woven fabric garments (like button-up shirts). I ended up switching to practically everything jersey, but in the past few years I’ve gotten less and less satisfied with that solution.
I started learning sewing because I was sick of nothing fitting my short and skinny but very wide-hipped body. Eventually even went to school for it, where I learned about pattern sizing & drafting and tailoring.
A short term solution is figuring out one variable that has to be right (for me it's my hips or it won't fit) and then modifying every single thing you buy everywhere else, forever. :'D
Try to invest into a tailored blouse. Results are just... breathable.
@@hrani I’m planning on switching my wardrobe over to stuff I’ve made, but even then I’m planning on starting off with items that require less fitting, like skirts and 18th century shirts. lol then work my way up to more fitted items!
The idea of mobs of women with bullhorns yelling at manufacturers to include measurements popped in my head, and I’m totally here for it.
I remember when we were young teenagers everybody criticized Hollister for their way to small sizes. One day we walked into Hollister and apparently they changed their size system because we were able to fit into stuff two sizes under the size we would wear in other shops. We spent so much money that day basically just paying for the smaller number...
I really like the positive and helpful energy of this video, not trashing modern sizing systems but talking about the whys and hows and and giving us helpful tips about how we could help manufacturers creating cloths that fit better!
My waist is EU size 38 and my hips are size 40. That is between S and M. Having pants fit me is a dream that rarely comes true.
Thanks for this video! I read many years ago that actresses always looked good in their clothes because the movie studio tailors would make clothes to their measurements.
Lovely video. Explains by extrapolation how sizes 0 and 00 came into being. Can’t wait until my size is -10!
Anyone size 0 surely is 12 years old.
@@lovecats6856 maybe in 1960, but considering how much vanity sizes have inflated a size 0 is a perfectly normal (thin) woman now.
I’m wanting to start a line of handmade children’s clothes and maybe in the future women’s clothing. This video was very useful and I will definitely be implementing the suggestions made in the video and in the comments.
ugh i want this video to go viral for you!! taking my size measurements has made shopping online so much easier, but the sizing charts they give are still pretty vague. everything you proposed is so reasonable/achievable and i hope it gets implemented! < 3
Even if they give lots of different circumferences, height is often overlooked... and I usually get the narrow waist of the garment hitting my wide upper hip so circumference means nothing without knowing the height proportions of where the bust and waist and hips are supposed to be placed.
@@milu9099 I think the next revolution in clothing will be based on augmented reality: someone does a 360-degree view of you with a height measurement, which is then made-to-measure on your ENTIRE body (not just three measurements - something that really miffed me years ago when an expensive made-to-measure kilted skirt came back not fitting at all!). I believe there's a men's shirt app/manufacturer that does this already, but one pays dearly for it (over $100 for a shirt that would normally cost about $30)...
@@webwarren I would love that!
Also, made to order would be good for enviroment.
I have a Poshmark closet and am working on adding in all the measurements on each item. I will ALWAYS include measurements from this point on. The most common measurement I get asked about is the bust - pit to pit and the waist. The website Sizely has some really great templates to use just in case anyone is having trouble with all the measurements needed for jackets and pants etc. Thanks for this detailed video.
How much has the system for men's clothing sizes undergone standardization and change? I feel like men's clothing is so much more likely to be sized according to actual body measurements rather than random letters or numbers.
I find it frustrating that companies don't list shoulder width for garments with sleeves, especially for lined garments like jackets.
Most seamstresses will tell you that as long as the shoulders fit, and you can close the front of the garment, the alterations are relatively easy. Shoulders are the biggest pain to fit and alter, so shouldn't that measurement be listed?
Yes! More shoe widths please! While I understand that providing more widths for more shoes is difficult, as someone who has ALWAYS struggled with finding shoes for my wide feet, it would relieve stress and frustration. Oh and don't get me started on pants...
I used to buy shoes from New Look, but now most of what they stock (at least last time I checked) came only in wide fitting. Which is frustrating because I am the other end of the scale & need narrower width shoes which just aren't possible to find unless going to an old fashioned shoe shop, but even then the styles are incredibly limited in a narrow width & not at all in keeping with style changes (so they are quite dated, but not in a good way). Perhaps its a bigger issue elsewhere, but here its unusual to find somewhere which doesn't offer wide widths. Granted they might still not be wide enough of course, but its at least an option for some wider footed peeps.
At least they often now have wide calf boots.
I would love to see your proposal, and others' proposals in a discussion format. Myself and some other indie designers/sellers have been in this discourse for a long time and the ease to find and discuss this sort of theory is... limited. I have dug through a lot of information and collected ideas and have no idea how to develop it because I am not surrounded by similar minded people with the garment experience. So being able to see you and your peers discuss solutions, even if you concentrate on indie level businesses, I'd be so hype. Then even if I cant sit at the table I can watch others do so.
Yeah, same here. I want to offer properly sized garments but I don't know how yet
@@atelieralumine Hello fellow designer! Yes! And we're all off in our own spaces tryna figure it out and it's a really difficult treasure hunt. And we're all doing a bunch of extra work, and then the concern that sharing some of it would have all our ideas and stuff stolen and produced cheaper. I'd love an innovative space to learn and share.
Two things;
1) weirdly, back when I was younger, I was strangely okay with number sizes that made no sense because if I felt bad that I was an 11 at one store but a 6 in another, it almost felt like it was the world’s way of reminding me that ‘I’m not a single number size’ as Nicole says. Now that I’m older, I don’t care what size I am and just want something that fits well. I have both XXS and XL in my closet because the system is screwy.
2) YEAHHHH Murdoch Mysteries!! As a Canadian I’ve been watching it for ages (and used to work at one of the historic sites they eventually did some filming at) and I’ve sort of been waiting for someone from the Costube world to mention it. ❤️
I used to watch MM but got caught up and then the site d idnt have anymore seasons... I only recently discovered that it was still in production...it was such a great show...cant wait to go back and rewatch the early stuff and cont on with the newer seasons ❤ it used to send me down research rabbit holes too lol
Coming from a country that usually produces clothing in 5 sizes, of which the largest will fit snugly a 40 inch chest, the range of choices the costumer was faced back in the day, makes me want to cry😭😭😭
Omg my 46 inch bust is crying at the idea of this
My mother always took us to one specific shoe store, waaaaay out of our normal shopping area, because they sold a couple of shoe brands that came in different widths. As I was an a or b, and my sister an ee, this was rather necessary. If we went to other stores, we were usually there for a long long time, with all of us getting frustrated because nothing fit/everything hurt/what did fit was ugly.
Now as an adult, I've simply accepted that there are some styles of shoe I just can't wear, because they all seem to be made for a very different shaped foot than mine.
I really enjoy that there's a store here in Toronto (Ontario, Canada...) That does the old style sitting you down and helping you find the right shoes. Shoe Avenue carries brands that make multiple widths and really unusual sizes. It's amazing for me and my 11.5-12 wide or double wide feet!
I had once read that the initial measurements/standardization in the late 30s came from women in the military and the need for WAC, WAVE, and nurses' uniforms for WWII. Which meant the body types were not especially diverse. Is this an urban myth?
Wide feet run in our family. At a family gathering a bit ago, my mother and her sisters were talking about struggling to find comfortable shoes. My aunt commented that she found one pair of comfortable, well-fitting ones and said, "I have never spent so much on a pair of ugly shoes before."
Not related whatsoever : i really like the esthetic of murdoch's mysteries because in it's really long run you can see the growing interest and fluctuating tastes historical drama in the last decade and a half, in 2006 they were more stereotypical and showed what was expected of the fashion of that time, as steampunk really gained mainstream appeal the looks tended to look a little more contemporary and relatable with a dash of fantasy for more eccentric pieces and as we expected more and more accuracy in the last 5 years you see the clothes and hairstyles to look more like actual pieces of clothing (rather than a "ppl wore crazy clothing back then" feel we have more of a "this is wearable stuff circa 1903" feel)
Nicole, I always appreciate how much research goes into your videos. I know that’s a huge undertaking, essentially researching, writing, filming, and editing a research paper every week! Thank you so much for what you do!
Thank you. As a person who is not quite tall, but definitely taller than "normal". I need the length in more skirts or pants, but probably not the whole 2 inches that "Tall" will get me. As someone whose feet have gotten wider as life has gone on-- might it be a gravity thing? Medium shoes just don't cut it. Which means that I'm going over to the guys sizing for my flats. Which also makes me appreciate the European shoe sizing where a 40 is closer to a 40 to a 40. And while we're at it-- What the heck on sizing on panties? Who created that measuring stick?!
1- I'm totally with you on the short side of tall issues
2- the underoos comment made me LOL because when I was younger my dad, for Christmas, bought my mom a practical gift of more underwear- thinking that the sizing was the same as pants... needless to say when my mom opened up the size 12 unders....her facial expression was priceless. 😂 sadly, I could probably fit them just fine now lol
Mass market underwear is becoming trash. Got some Hanes Her Way recently, and seems as the crotch area was made to be dental floss. Who doesnt love instant camel toe as soon as your wearing your undies or a pad down there!!!
@@midnightqueen3332 lol part of the reason why the older we get, the more we realize that those granny panties we used to make fan of are damn comfy 😂
@@kerriskb19 or we pay out the nose for the stylish types in places like Torrid that make boy short styles or whatever brand style floats your boat. Sometimes I think our ancestors had the better ideas...OH to be a time traveler...
@@midnightqueen3332 I gave up on the cute stylish from torrid, LB, etc ... because of the toooo $$ thing. Plus, while I love the boy short idea- I have weird thighs so those don't work for me :( But like a lot of people, I went to Amazon and was lucky enough to find some that worked that arent too $$ by comparison- thankfully. :)
Hi Nicole, I have a topic I've been wondering if you might consider doing a video on, I think it is maybe in your wheelhouse? I work with a bunch of non-dress history related art historians, and occasional the topic comes up that you can't date things (painting tapestry embroidery whatever) by the fashion depicted in them. I have FEELINGS about this, and am pretty sure it is more complicated than that - like religious figures maybe aren't dressed in "fashionable clothing", artists may have kept clothes for the models to wear, but sometimes the clothing is accurate and dateable. Not entirely your standard subject, but the whole conversation always infuriates me because it always relegates dress history knowledge to something that shouldn't even be considered. Request made, now I will watch your lovely video
The Victorian interpretation of dress, as depicted in paintings and illustrations, would be a gold mine for this. Worth at least, I'd think, a post-Doc?
- Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown
Video watched, wonderful content as always, thanks for producing such high quality videos!
I think this would be a fun roundtable discussion between Nicole, Abby, Sewstine, Bernadette, Morgan, etc.
Clark's shoes (in the UK at least) have different widths available. It has been brilliant for me because I have long and narrow feet but wide feet run in my husband's family. It means that shoe shopping involves going to one shop instead of 5 when we all need new shoes!
I have purchased clothing from a custom-sizing sewn to my measurements company before and still had to take in the shoulders and re-sew the neckline to fit because the standard didn't take my being short waisted into account. For clothing, the measurements I really want include shoulder to waist, shoulder to bust, and bust to waist. I don't want to be limited to the "women's petite" category which is so minuscule as to be insulting when it exists at all. I buy pants by looking at the inseam measurements, but I really need to know where the knees sit and if it widens enough to let my calves flex. According to most size charts, I do not exist, and it is incredibly frustrating.
Seriously. Every pair of trousers I have needed an extra rubber band to pull the waist together because anything that fits my hips perfectly is too big there. Oh, and usually too long, even though I'm tall. Who are they making these for, giants?
And I have an hourglass shape, which is allegedly the "ideal" - but finding a perfect fit is rare. This is why I generally prefer skirts.
Don't even let me get started on bra sizing. That shit is some witchcraft that never works. If I get rich, I'm getting two dozen custom stays and a couple corsets and never looking back.
I'm with you on that request. As soon as I get rich 🎉💃fitted stays and corsets.
I also want to be a shapeshifter! Well-fitting corsets and stays in several different styles (I might not need two dozen, though - half a dozen would be plenty to cover all the shapes that I’m likely to look good in, I think) is my dream for making that happen.
Thank you for pointing out that as customers we can inform the company what we want. I have noticed a problem with online shopping (fuck 2020) that meany company's don't give any information on actual measurements or fabric and textures %. I was looking to buy a linden undershirt and underwear for the summer, and meany companies claimed 100% linen in the title but when you look to the product information the fabric was actually compromised of 80% polyester and 20% cotton.... this made me so mad, I hate synthetic fabric. WE THE CUSTOMERS HAVE THE POWER OF THE DOLLAR! TELL THE COMPANY WHAT YOU WANT AND THEY WILL OBLIGE US. (Free market for the win, long live the republic!)
Here for the history!
Also, super cute look!!!!
Edit: this entire discussion makes me remember when I was getting for pointe shoes.....
Yesss, drop us some knowledge!
Sleeping doggo in the background is precioussssss
My word I miss being able to rely on someone else's understanding when it comes to clothing and shoes. Currently getting my wedding gown altered and it is SO nice to just be able to go to a seamstress who can magically listen to where things feel wrong and make it fit!!
I also really appreciated literally everything about this video addressing how frustrating sizing can be. I'm super hourglass shaped and very muscular. So my waist compared to my bust compared to my quads and biceps place me in three different sizes almost every time and it's so frustrating. I almost exclusively wear eShakti now because I have figured out which of their sizes fit me in which of their materials!!
I got too excited when I saw the title and dropped my phone on my face, lmao. Buckling in for this one ~
This is so true! I've started doing most of my shopping in thrift stores and I just bring a long a measuring tape to check clothes as I sort through them. It makes it so much easier to figure out from the very beginning what has the barest possibility of fitting. I love that lots of Etsy sellers provide measurements too. I've learned that I can't buy online without provided measurements.
Thank you so much for doing this! As a 6ft tall woman with a short waisted Y-bodyshape, pants have always been an issue for me. I think I started wearing adult sized pants at the age of 13 (late 20's atm)? I couldn't fit in the kids sizes anymore due to the massive growthspurts but the hipsize on adult sizes were far too large because I lacked the proportions widthwise.
These days, some companies offer a separate hip & length measurements (I'm at 28/34 I believe) which has been a saving grace for me but they are still very few and far in between the "regular" big-brand shops.
I’ve never had an easy time finding clothes or shoes (like an all day odyssey ending in tears) and I really appreciate this video because it reiterated that it’s not my body that’s wrong but rather the systems we have in place. 🥰
Love the information. Really love that you speak with normal voice and not shout like too many youtubers do.
This is truly fascinating! Thank you!
Selling by bust measurements would have been terrible for pear shaped people like me, even in a loose era. I’ve always had to size up for my waist and butt.