I compared a matrix 6 and an Xpander some years ago. To my surprise, there wasn't that much of a difference, beyond the obvious (filter types, more modulators). In fact the 6 had better low end.
The M6/6r/1000 is absolutely fantastic, but the Xpander/M12 is definitely a league above. Again, I love the DCO based Matrix synths: one of the best DCO synths ever made... Both are a true testament to Tom Oberheim, the sound of the 80's IMO! Thanks for watching!
@@VintageSynthesizerSolutions Back in 2000, I did replaced my Matrix 12 with 6x M1000. And guess what? The whole M1000 rack simply blew away the Matrix12. czcams.com/video/ZIRS_KOLHTA/video.html&ab_channel=TheSynthKing
I had an Xpander and have the Matrix 6. The Xpander is great for getting deep and the 6 mode multitimbral is actually very useful. But sonically I think the Matrix 6 is beautiful. Slightly more pleasant sounding. And it still has some decent deep possibilities.
The Matrix 12 actually has 6 LFO's, everyone forgets the VIBrato LFO per voice making it 6. It even calls it the 6th LFO in the manual. The Matrix 12 sounds clearer and crisper with cleaner tones, the Matrix 6 is gritty, and raspier. The Matrix 12 Multi-Patches are truly awesome! This and the added plethora of extra controllers is what draws me in. You could pitch-shift the instrument down an octave for demoing Bass patches...
Thanks for doing this! Very informative to hear these "siblings" side by side. I would LOVE to hear it done dry though - that reverb sounds awful and makes it hard to really hear these beauties as they are! Hopefully for the next one!?
Sometimes, I find that simplicity is beauty in synth sounds. Like on a 2 oscillator per voice synth, making single oscillator sounds can have a wonderful clarity. As well as the analogueness, the purity of old synthesiser sounds seems to be a frature of their beauty.
I used to use a Matrix 6 in umpteen road bands back from 1985 to 1993 and I actually enjoyed tweaking existing patches from the presets and just taking something like the Toto Horns as a basic horn patch I could tweak sometimes even just as little as the ADSR and get very satisfying tactile response for horn sections in songs from back then like Would I Lie to You by the Eurythmics and on and on. Such a warm satisfying synth. I used it for horns, strings, basses, and miscellaneous stuff. Never should’ve parted with it. It’s always cracked me up how many people whine about programming it. It wasn’t that bad.
I love my Matrix 1000. I love it more than my Prophet 10 (for sound alone). It's very weird. I love it more than my Prophet 12. More than the Prophet REV2 (which I just didn't like very much at all). More than well... probably most of the gear I own. I sold my Juno 106 years ago and kept my Matrix 1000. I should have also kept the Juno... but now I've bought a Juno 6 and like that more than the 106. Would love a Matrix 12 or Xpander... but probably am not going to do it -_-
You should get another M1000 and the new Polychain Box - you'll never think about a Matrix 12 again :-) I made a video concerned to the Polychain-box: czcams.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/video.html
For a performer, the biggest difference isn't the polphony or sound, but the fact that the M12 has a full panel of knobs that you can tweak in real time, whereas the M6 has a DX7 style, parameter/value entry system, which isn't really usable to make real-time changes. You can use MIDI mapping or controller modules to help that, but it's still an big disadvantage. On the flip side, they do sound pretty similar, and the M12 still costs as much as a car, whereas the M6 is something of a bargain and is still availabe for $1000 or less used. If money is no object, the M12 is clearly more desirable, but, for most musicians, the M6 is a much better value nowadays--in fact, it might be the very last affordable classic Oberhem that you can get. I own a M6 rack, but I doubt that I'll ever spend the money for an M12 at the current (ot future) prices. I do have the Arturia M12 VST, if I really want to try out the unique sounds on it.
Everyone seems to miss the fact that the 6 has a 24/db filter, and every other Obie has a 12/db filter. This makes the character different, with tighter,deeper bass. I love my 6! Had an Xpander for a while, realized I didn't need 6 lfos, 5 envelopes, 5 ramps, and the Partridge in the pear tree. Never used them and the interface is NOT easy to get around, despite the knobs and displays. Sounded great, but not thousands of dollars great...
Early SEM obies and OBX are 2 pole/12db, but the Xa/8 at least had the 4 pole/24 db option, as does the Xpander/M12. I too own an M6, as well as an Xpander, and I think that unless you're really after the extra features and modulation routings the Xpander offers, you can definitely get the experience and flavor from the M6. For me, I can't live without the linear VCO FM the Xpander offers, whereas it's just filter FM for the M6. Also, the saturation and fizz from the Xpander/M12 CEM 3372 is just music to my ears and isn't quite present in the M6's 3396.
The Matrix-1000 is still on my wish list, but considering it is on the wish list of a lot of other people, asking prices are higher than what I feel comfortable paying.
Both are extraordinary instruments. I had a friend who had a Matrix-12 and another who had an X-Pander. However, I remain content with two poly-chained Matrix-1000s. I'm very tempted to get the fancy Stereoping editor. We'll see...
I have had both Matrix 6R and Xpander, the most significant difference is multimode where you can layer same (or any other) patch up to six times and use separate outs with tuning, panning, processing etc.
A more unexpected difference in sound is actually between the 6 and the 1000 - and that’s a clearly different character that’s hard to describe with the usual adjectives.
I bought the Xpander on an impulse buy from a synth store in seattle after flipping through the presets once. Then I returned my OBx8 which is a great synth but didn’t sound like the old Ob8. Something was missing. It was shinier maybe but definitely a feeling you get with these older synths.
I don't really feel that Oberheim character on the M6, rather reminds me of JX8P than anything else... A bit like the SixTrack in regard of Sequential Circuits x) On point video tho, very interesting my friend!
In my opinion the Matrix 6 has much more Oberheim Character than the 12 - two Matrix 6R in stereo sound like this: Iczcams.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/video.html&lc=Ugw94q7X0JXbHEDMJYF4AaABAg
I tried a Matrix-6 when it first came out and, to my ears, it sounded quite... generic, for want of a better word. I was a Juno-60, JX-3P (later JX-8P) and DX7 user and it didn't feel the M6 would add anything to my sonic arsenal. That said, I wouldn't mind owning a Matrix-6R or Matrix-1000 now!
Same FX bus used on both so it should be identical, but it does sound heavier on the 12 watching it back now. The studio is a new build in progress, will investigate. As far as low end on the 12, it's always sounded as is. It definitely needs a service when I can find the time, but the 6 does seem to have more bottom end.
Great video. Not sure you really touched on the true capability of the M12 however, which far exceeds the M6/6R. The M12 definitely sounds better. Curious about the reverb you used, it sounded 80s a Korg/Yamaha/Roland verb or multi efx on a verb setting, as it was quite full, and may have taken a little away from the comparison.
A question. Matrix 12 Do you have this sound on this link? themselves beginning in the duration of 0:00 to 00:16 czcams.com/video/yna3A7LUw18/video.html
Too bad you just played cookie cutter vanilla string/pad/brass sounds. The Matrix 6/6R is the sound of Moby's "early underground" era. It's a techno monster. He lies in interviews and tells people that he used a Jupiter 6, but.... we know better. That filter is unmistakable.
Too much reverb and delay. It's all on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you a sound designer or a performer. The M6 has some pretty impressive modulation options even by today's standards. At an affordable price point on the used synth market. The M12 is a luxurious collectors item best left in a nice studio. They are not fun to program without an editor.
For future reference your demo at 4:50 was awful, at least play in time or something, it was horrificly jarring and paints a bad image of the synth. Also m8... mono... seriously? Use the stereo dude, it's one of the power features of this synth.
We've released an updated version of this video without Effects for those who are interested: czcams.com/video/gzVSwz7uT6M/video.html
Not only did you make both Matrix models sound killer. You got me stoked to play my mp3 of “Human”.
I compared a matrix 6 and an Xpander some years ago. To my surprise, there wasn't that much of a difference, beyond the obvious (filter types, more modulators). In fact the 6 had better low end.
The M6/6r/1000 is absolutely fantastic, but the Xpander/M12 is definitely a league above. Again, I love the DCO based Matrix synths: one of the best DCO synths ever made...
Both are a true testament to Tom Oberheim, the sound of the 80's IMO! Thanks for watching!
@@VintageSynthesizerSolutions Back in 2000, I did replaced my Matrix 12 with 6x M1000. And guess what? The whole M1000 rack simply blew away the Matrix12. czcams.com/video/ZIRS_KOLHTA/video.html&ab_channel=TheSynthKing
I've owned a M12 back in the years. I did replace my M12 with 5x M1000. Guess what sounds better...
The M12@@sK3LeTvM1
@@sK3LeTvM1 5xM1000
Even though you're 'just a technician' the Human League "human' chops were good and sounded great on the m12!
I had an Xpander and have the Matrix 6. The Xpander is great for getting deep and the 6 mode multitimbral is actually very useful. But sonically I think the Matrix 6 is beautiful. Slightly more pleasant sounding. And it still has some decent deep possibilities.
The Matrix 12 actually has 6 LFO's, everyone forgets the VIBrato LFO per voice making it 6. It even calls it the 6th LFO in the manual.
The Matrix 12 sounds clearer and crisper with cleaner tones, the Matrix 6 is gritty, and raspier.
The Matrix 12 Multi-Patches are truly awesome! This and the added plethora of extra controllers is what draws me in.
You could pitch-shift the instrument down an octave for demoing Bass patches...
Thanks for doing this! Very informative to hear these "siblings" side by side. I would LOVE to hear it done dry though - that reverb sounds awful and makes it hard to really hear these beauties as they are! Hopefully for the next one!?
Happy to oblige: czcams.com/video/gzVSwz7uT6M/video.html
I own an OB-Xa and a M6+M1000
Very interesting video… surprisingly i preferred lots of sounds on the M6 than the M12!
👍🏻
Sometimes, I find that simplicity is beauty in synth sounds. Like on a 2 oscillator per voice synth, making single oscillator sounds can have a wonderful clarity. As well as the analogueness, the purity of old synthesiser sounds seems to be a frature of their beauty.
I used to use a Matrix 6 in umpteen road bands back from 1985 to 1993 and I actually enjoyed tweaking existing patches from the presets and just taking something like the Toto Horns as a basic horn patch I could tweak sometimes even just as little as the ADSR and get very satisfying tactile response for horn sections in songs from back then like Would I Lie to You by the Eurythmics and on and on. Such a warm satisfying synth. I used it for horns, strings, basses, and miscellaneous stuff.
Never should’ve parted with it.
It’s always cracked me up how many people whine about programming it.
It wasn’t that bad.
That Matrix 12 sounds utterly exquisite 👌
I love my Matrix 1000. I love it more than my Prophet 10 (for sound alone). It's very weird.
I love it more than my Prophet 12. More than the Prophet REV2 (which I just didn't like very much at all). More than well... probably most of the gear I own.
I sold my Juno 106 years ago and kept my Matrix 1000. I should have also kept the Juno... but now I've bought a Juno 6 and like that more than the 106.
Would love a Matrix 12 or Xpander... but probably am not going to do it -_-
The M1000 is truly superb. What 1U rack synth for $1000 does so much and sounds soo good?!?
You should get another M1000 and the new Polychain Box - you'll never think about a Matrix 12 again :-) I made a video concerned to the Polychain-box: czcams.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/video.html
Agree! Surprisingly, I love it more than my Prophet 5, too soundwise.. Love your videos of it, too!! Would love to see more 🙏🙌
Both sound great!
Great video!!
Thanx, The 6 has more character, it comes alive
For a performer, the biggest difference isn't the polphony or sound, but the fact that the M12 has a full panel of knobs that you can tweak in real time, whereas the M6 has a DX7 style, parameter/value entry system, which isn't really usable to make real-time changes. You can use MIDI mapping or controller modules to help that, but it's still an big disadvantage. On the flip side, they do sound pretty similar, and the M12 still costs as much as a car, whereas the M6 is something of a bargain and is still availabe for $1000 or less used. If money is no object, the M12 is clearly more desirable, but, for most musicians, the M6 is a much better value nowadays--in fact, it might be the very last affordable classic Oberhem that you can get.
I own a M6 rack, but I doubt that I'll ever spend the money for an M12 at the current (ot future) prices. I do have the Arturia M12 VST, if I really want to try out the unique sounds on it.
Everyone seems to miss the fact that the 6 has a 24/db filter, and every other Obie has a 12/db filter. This makes the character different, with tighter,deeper bass. I love my 6! Had an Xpander for a while, realized I didn't need 6 lfos, 5 envelopes, 5 ramps, and the Partridge in the pear tree. Never used them and the interface is NOT easy to get around, despite the knobs and displays. Sounded great, but not thousands of dollars great...
Early SEM obies and OBX are 2 pole/12db, but the Xa/8 at least had the 4 pole/24 db option, as does the Xpander/M12. I too own an M6, as well as an Xpander, and I think that unless you're really after the extra features and modulation routings the Xpander offers, you can definitely get the experience and flavor from the M6. For me, I can't live without the linear VCO FM the Xpander offers, whereas it's just filter FM for the M6. Also, the saturation and fizz from the Xpander/M12 CEM 3372 is just music to my ears and isn't quite present in the M6's 3396.
Great informative video 👍👍
The Matrix-1000 is still on my wish list, but considering it is on the wish list of a lot of other people, asking prices are higher than what I feel comfortable paying.
www.youtube.com/@M80-/featured
Both are extraordinary instruments. I had a friend who had a Matrix-12 and another who had an X-Pander. However, I remain content with two poly-chained Matrix-1000s. I'm very tempted to get the fancy Stereoping editor. We'll see...
Get the alpesmachines controller if you can. It has much better features and cheaper but is rare and more boutique.
www.youtube.com/@M80-/featured
I have had both Matrix 6R and Xpander, the most significant difference is multimode where you can layer same (or any other) patch up to six times and use separate outs with tuning, panning, processing etc.
Sound at 17 on the M6 is incredible!
Would be interesting to listen both of them with no reverb
Here you go! czcams.com/video/gzVSwz7uT6M/video.html
@@VintageSynthesizerSolutions Yes indeed incredible!! What's the name of the patch?
Great comparison! Good demo going back and forth between the two synths. Thanks for doing this video!
I love the M6. Quite has its own character doesn't it. I would love to have a M12 too but it wouldn't replace it in my heart.
Great video! I love my Xpander… I just got the Xk controller keyboard for it. They go well together
A more unexpected difference in sound is actually between the 6 and the 1000 - and that’s a clearly different character that’s hard to describe with the usual adjectives.
I bought the Xpander on an impulse buy from a synth store in seattle after flipping through the presets once. Then I returned my OBx8 which is a great synth but didn’t sound like the old Ob8. Something was missing. It was shinier maybe but definitely a feeling you get with these older synths.
They both sound more analog than current analog synths.
Indeed
I don't really feel that Oberheim character on the M6, rather reminds me of JX8P than anything else... A bit like the SixTrack in regard of Sequential Circuits x) On point video tho, very interesting my friend!
In my opinion the Matrix 6 has much more Oberheim Character than the 12 - two Matrix 6R in stereo sound like this: Iczcams.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/video.html&lc=Ugw94q7X0JXbHEDMJYF4AaABAg
I tried a Matrix-6 when it first came out and, to my ears, it sounded quite... generic, for want of a better word. I was a Juno-60, JX-3P (later JX-8P) and DX7 user and it didn't feel the M6 would add anything to my sonic arsenal. That said, I wouldn't mind owning a Matrix-6R or Matrix-1000 now!
nice. the matrix 12 sounds better to my ears. did you use a vintage reverb? it sounds ringy, like an old alesis.
combo of lexicon pcm 60 and cxm 1978
Thanks! A bit heavier reverb on the 12? And perhaps missing some bass on the 12 as well ?
Same FX bus used on both so it should be identical, but it does sound heavier on the 12 watching it back now. The studio is a new build in progress, will investigate. As far as low end on the 12, it's always sounded as is. It definitely needs a service when I can find the time, but the 6 does seem to have more bottom end.
@@VintageSynthesizerSolutions Matrix 6 has a lot of low end in general compared to Matrix 12 in every unit. So this is pretty common.
Would be cool to hear a side by side w no fx - thanks for the vid God bless
czcams.com/video/gzVSwz7uT6M/video.html
2:52 Does Birdland actually sound like 'Birdland' by Weather Report?
Great video. Not sure you really touched on the true capability of the M12 however, which far exceeds the M6/6R. The M12 definitely sounds better. Curious about the reverb you used, it sounded 80s a Korg/Yamaha/Roland verb or multi efx on a verb setting, as it was quite full, and may have taken a little away from the comparison.
I have matrix 6. Preset sounds are nothing compared to where u can go in making your own patches
A question. Matrix 12 Do you have this sound on this link? themselves beginning in the duration of 0:00 to 00:16
czcams.com/video/yna3A7LUw18/video.html
Fantastic sem.
Since the Stereoping Polychainer came out - it's a new game: czcams.com/video/AXfMAXTTLgE/video.html
the M6 has no knobs and it is just complicated enough to make it tricky to adjust the mod matrix
I'm in sight of a cheaper than usual M6 locally. But the difficulty of programming is holding me back.
@@80ssynthfan48 You'll get used to its workflow, don't worry.
@@cuccomposer I'm a beginner in synthesisers. I think it would be a step too far at this stage.
@@80ssynthfan48 You need only a Programmer, like mine. Works fine.
Just wow....
Matrix 12 sounds more wider like it’s panned more into the stereo …. The Matrix just sounds full without being panned
😎😎😎,,, that was good, I like that,
I'd take an Andy over both of 'em
Got one of those too and have to disagree on the M12! But to each their own, that's beauty of synthesizers! Thank you for watching! :)
Whats an andy?
@@mpmi7588 Alesis Andromeda
Too bad you just played cookie cutter vanilla string/pad/brass sounds. The Matrix 6/6R is the sound of Moby's "early underground" era. It's a techno monster. He lies in interviews and tells people that he used a Jupiter 6, but.... we know better. That filter is unmistakable.
Too much reverb and delay. It's all on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you a sound designer or a performer. The M6 has some pretty impressive modulation options even by today's standards. At an affordable price point on the used synth market. The M12 is a luxurious collectors item best left in a nice studio. They are not fun to program without an editor.
For future reference your demo at 4:50 was awful, at least play in time or something, it was horrificly jarring and paints a bad image of the synth. Also m8... mono... seriously? Use the stereo dude, it's one of the power features of this synth.