Review: The Witness
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2016
- In which I risk looking like an asshole for not liking a thing everybody likes.
The Witness is on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/210...
But you can't play it if you're epileptic, colorblind or tone-deaf!
So is Braid: store.steampowered.com/app/26800/
And Antichamber (in case you missed it earlier): store.steampowered.com/app/219...
Last week on the TOVG podcast, Matt from the Best Friends Zaibatsu elbowed his way in to brag about drumming up publicity for Metal Wolf Chaos: www.thatonevideogamer.com/feat... - Hry
The apple puzzle at 4:10 makes a lot more sense now that I know George has red-green colorblindness.
Yeah, I see al lot of the parts in this game sucking with color blindness
Oh god. That tiny detail recontextualizes this entire video.
It all makes so much more sense now...
I was so confused how he didn't spot it. Now I see why he had so much trouble with this game.
The scales have fallen from my eyes! Thank you for this crucial piece of info.
I guess this game needs a colour blindness warning as it's actually a very common vision issue.
Joseph Anderson also pointed out that it can be hard to even look at the tree if the game doesn’t teach you beforehand that the environment matters. I’m not colorblind at all but those apple-tree puzzles were amongst my first and I brute-forced all of them. I did figure out environmental puzzles after that but by then there was no point in returning and realizing what I missed.
The video where George reveals that he's colorblind sheds a lot of light on this video.
Wait what?
@@jacksonw453 He struggled with a lot of these puzzles because he has a form of colorblindness that makes it difficult to tell some colors apart. So he wasn't able to see certain puzzle elements very well.
oh my god the apple it's the apple 4:12
i never played the game but I'm positive it's the apple
+skippyasqueeze Spoiler: It's the apple.
+bratsampson I knew it!
+skippyasqueeze But did you realize that before after he said "environmental puzzle"?
+skippyasqueeze Don't be so hard on him, he's got a learning disability ^^
TheFarSideNoob the apple is like...right there. It's the first thing I saw.
I can see why you didn't like it. This is the definition of a niche game. It's made for that audience and pretty much no one else. And If Blow wanted to make something for that specific group of people without dumbing it down for mass appeal then I can respect that.
+L Pendergast
Exactly. I happen to be part of the audience, so yay me.
Definitely not for everyone, however.
Being a "niche game" doesn't make it a better game tho. Anyway, The Witness it's the new shit in twitter, has been acclaimed by the majority of journalists and already sell more in one week than Braid in an entire year...talk about "Niche Game". Jon Blow surpasses the Ultra-Pretentious line with his $40 Open-World Sudoku Book Game.
+L Pendergast Waht's niche about 5 million dollars in sales... the first week
+Azlandir Absolutely nothing, if anything Blow did what most makers of puzzle games do...they give games more credit than most people when it comes to the kind of thing they feel will entertain them.
+L Pendergast Man, I hope he doesn't come back later and blame the limited appeal-driven sales on something stupid like piracy.
Oh wait.
I love your content man, but it was clear that this just wasn't for you. I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong because that's silly. But let me explain
Everything you complained about is what I loved about this game. I love that it didn't hold your hand. I love that there was always an air of mystery to both the game and the mechanics. I love the point where you walk up to something new and go. "How does this work. What makes this tick?" What makes The Witness so good is how it completely masters the 'Ah ha' moment. When you're looking a puzzle and it's just you and world. It forces you to put yourself in the shoes of the puzzle. What does it expect out of you? What logically could this mean.
Those tutorial panels you say are bad because you can 'get lucky' is just a slow burn attempt to build you up to the realization of what the mechanic means. And what's brilliant about a lot of mechanics is that they have a way of evolving as you progress in the area. What was working before, and you thought was the full explaination of a mechanic suddenly evolves and forces you on your toes. To some people, this constant questioning could be frustrating like it was to you. But to me it just added to the mystery and wonder of the game.
I love how much the game tests me. I love how it's not afraid of me 'getting stuck' or not understanding something on my first look. Playing this game with no outside help has been an experience that I've never had before. In a world where every Nintendo game that isn't Mario has 20 hours of constant hand holding, I really loved how this game didn't insult me.
Things you say are 'problems' aren't problems to me. It's the reason that I keep coming back instead of just getting bored.
Also there's no way the 'average' gamer beat this in less than 30-40 hours like you did. The website you use puts full faith in people being honest about it, and it's probably the result of a lot of people lying to make themselves look smart.
+ZygonCannar Or more likely they legit completed it, but looked up a solution every time something took them more than 20 mins to solve.
+ZygonCannar Or maybe smarty pantses are more likely to boast about their times when given a chance.
+ZygonCannar you don't need to complete EVERY puzzle, numbnuts. the game is completable in 15 hours. if you want to beat everything, it'll take 40. not that hard to add up. the rest of your comment is forfeit since you're too dumb to add.
Where did I say you had to complete EVERY PUZZLE, numbskull?
The rest of your comment is forfeit since you're too dumb to take a comment at face value without adding assumptions and then making judgments based off of that.
+bratsampson Agreed. There's no way that's the true average without assistance. Just because someone spent that much time on it doesn't mean they truly solved each of those. I'm sure many of those people _believe_ they beat it in that much time, but that's because they discount how long it could have taken them to reason the solution. Thekla's own numbers on average times were ~40 hours just to beat it, and much longer to clear all content. One tweet said it took ~5 hours to speed run just to get from start to finish. I refuse to believe that the *average* time is only 3x that of someone who already knew the solution to EVERYTHING. His time is based on strict input needs. There's no way they are solving the puzzles with only 3x as many seconds as it takes to input the solution. That is absolutely ABSURD.
Some of this footage was put on right? I haven't even played the game and I could see the solution for a lot of the puzzles.
+ThisAlbino The apple one is infuriating.
+Ricardo Rios I thought the apple area was the easiest area in the game, the area I hated was the swamp area.
+ThisAlbino how do you even know the rules and aims and symbols of the puzzles without having played the game lol
+Ricardo Rios The apple one I only got after watching the video with the context of ENVIROMENT. when I was doing it, I brute forced it in a complete slog of a marathon of resetting. it's a joke of a puzzle, and pretentious as hell.
+Exigentable it is a joke of a puzzle; because it's so goddam easy
I remember Blow at some point characterizing The Witness as "a game about noticing things", and it sounds like he achieved that. I'll definitely be approaching it with that in mind.
Came back to the Witness after a long time. I love it for many of the reasons you don’t, but I completely agree with your point on the game’s accessibility.
People will argue all day about accessibility and games “not being for some people” - which is usually BS - but The Witness should at a bare minimum have options to help out colorblind players, or some kind of subtitle readout for the sound puzzles (which IS feasible, since the puzzles stem from sound pitch and how long the sound is held).
What about blind people?
What about people without arms or legs?
What about disembodied heads floating in a jar?
What about them?
@@____uncompetative I can't tell if this is serious, but adding a colorblind mode is a lot easier than simulating peoples' missing motor functions.
This would mess up the bunker area for multiple reasons. Plus, that area actually has 12 test puzzles for each kind of colour blindness. Same with the sound area for deaf people
The game is not accessible by its nature. That's why you don't need to do all the puzzles to finish the game. Some people just won't be able to do the tone based puzzles. Others just can't do the colour ones. Others may just find some of them too hard. That's fine - the game gives you some flexibility.
"the clouds don't move"
Funny you should mention that...
Ha.
well that's just like... your opinion man.
it is mine as well.. now shut the fuck up, you are out of your element!
+Folgemilch21 just take it easy man.
+Folgemilch21 shut up, donny
+JamLover247 most of other "reviews" praise the game without explaining why it's any good, then saying that it's worth 40$ (which is total bullshit) and giving it a 10/10.
+Leonid Chernyshov I just watched the IGN and GT reviews and they literally explained why they liked it. I mean sure, you can defend George's opinion and disregard the others because they're the big, bad reviewers.That's totally not double standards of opinions.
When I watched a friend of mine play this game and he got one of the pretentious meta-non-endings, it occurred to me that this is the game equivalent of the movie Boyhood. It's something meant for people who think they are artsy to feel superior and cultured, but really there is no substance to the game. At least not any that's worth $40 dollars.
+Dexter Riley story's not really pretentious, pretty straightforward imo
"Solve my maze" Lex Luthor...
Accurate
"Its a sheet of math homework" - SBH
You're either going to delight in toiling away at obtuse problems and find the exercise a reward in itself or you're not. That is pretty much this game
Right. Playing this game reminded me of messing around with a math problem.
The gameplay footage of him trying and failing at a puzzle that resembles a tree with an apple very obviously placed within view of the puzzle with him talking about "Frustrating, ambiguous puzzle design" isn't helping the argument. I haven't played this game before, but c'mon man... that tree and the puzzle were EXACTLY the same, and the tree had a bright red apple on one of the branches. Figure it out.
I think he might’ve been colorblind
I played it blind, no walkthroughs, no guides, no reviews, no footage... completed the game in 19 hours and I HAD A BLAST!
It is an awesome game, but you have to be driven by your own curiosity instead of a abstract carrot in a stick in order to tackle it, in order to have fun exploring and figuring stuff out :)
4:02 So how long did it take you to notice the tree on the left?
But no, honestly, I can see your point about this game. Watching this video just made me want to reinstall The Talos Principle. That's kind of embarrassing; knowing that the Serious Sam guys managed to make a better First Person Puzzler than the Braid guy.
better is an opinion, this hasn't definitely isn't for everyone, but it has so many things in it that are engaging and fun for some people. I can see why not everyone likes this game, and I can respect that, just give the same respect for people who do enjoy it.
I understand a lot of games could have better content, but I don't think we have to strive to have perfect games always. This game isn't setting video games backwards as a medium, it's just another game that people will or won't like. I do want to thank you for your game recommendation however.
+TConX yeah, Talos Principle is factually just a way better game.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this review.
+87in7 cool.
+87in7 ?
+87in7 What in this game appeals to you? I don't see anything appealing at all about this. Honest question, no troll.
+zorkatron986 but seriously this would be a perfect mobile game if it was cheaper
+zorkatron986 It is an incredible game that the reviewer didn't enjoy, but there are a million things to like in this game. The mystery, the gorgeous art, the great puzzle designs... and most of all, the way the gameplay ties everything together in a fascinating way... to say more would involve a lot of spoilers.
This game took a piece of me, i've never been on a mental rollercoaster like it. That square shaped puzzle is burned into my retinas... Forever! Lol
I don't understand comments that claim he spent the whole video shitting on the game, when what he said was "it's not for me, but I can see why other people would like it." That is completely NOT the same as "it sucked and it's bad."
+silver Harloe The fanboy cult of the game must defend their idol.
+SugaryCoyote I wonder when they'll start sacrificing some of their own to prove their devotion.
+Richard Blank Where did I say he should be immune to criticism? I just think "it was bad" and "I didn't like it" are different statements and should be treated as such. I'm sure we could find things to criticize without putting words in this mouth.
+silver Harloe he often times stated that the puzzles themselves were monotonous and boring, or not interesting and such. yes he also said that "it's not for me" but then said that sometimes the rules weren't clear or that it broke it own rules and such.. and those things are simply not true.
this game might break the rules you've build up in your head, but all that means is, that you had the wrong rules in your head to begin with.
+LE0NSKA because the game is not good at explaining those rules
Thank god you said it.
+Ben Rose : Take out the 3D environment, and you're left with a $2 smart phone game.
+Duke Jaywalker *$40 smartphone game, do you hate indie devs so much you want them to starve to death? if jonathan blow didnt make $5mil in a week he would literally be homeless right now
+Real Wolf So? His personal financial status should make zero impact on your valuation of a product. I've not played this game yet but I wont be spending £30 on it. looks like a £10-15 game at most. If that would cripple him financially that's his fault for spending over 6 years developing this thing. He's not my friend I don't owe him anything.
+Peach Papaya sarcasm does not translate well when written. i was about to rage at him as well with that comment. i have my biases i know.
Real Wolf wow this guy is for real.
I’ve always struggled with puzzles my whole life and felt stupid because of it. But for some reason The Witness came naturally to me. It’s my proudest platinum and I often debate deleting my save and doing it all over again. Something about this game boosted my confidence in my intelligence and self esteem, I’ll always love it for that
Goos job dude, really nice to read this comment after I played through the game myself a few months ago!
As much as I love your videos, and I really don't think this game is for me either. But when you used the example of some of the puzzles having environmental clues and it shows you trying constantly at a puzzle in a small forest of pink trees LOOK AT THE FUCKING GREEN TREE WITH THE APPLE ON IT. Jesus christ how did you not notice that first time? It's literally right in front of your screen and the puzzle is shaped like a fucking tree!
+whityouyahbam He was... That's why it was on his screen while he was trying to do the puzzle... But he had no idea what the tree was supposed to mean in the context of the game.
There's a tree, and there's a pencil drawing of a tree. Puzzle: Start. Go ahead and draw things.
What I meant was that it's pretty obvious to just follow the path of the branches to reach the apple, but he followed every single one except for the branch with the apple on the drawing.
I'm not sure if he was just doing that as an example or really couldn't figure it out. It's on the same level as a 'follow the line to reach the end of the maze' puzzle you find in kids books.
whityouyahbam This isn't comparable, kids books have instructions. This game doesn't.
He didn't get it. YOU getting it and him not getting doesn't somehow "invalidate" his opinion that the game was poorly designed, if not just boring as sin.
You're upset because he doesn't agree with your own feelings about the game. That's what this boils down to.
Jade Venator What? Literally my first sentence of my first comment was 'I really don't think this game is for me either'.
I don't like the look of the game at all, it looks like on of the least inventive puzzle games I've seen in recent years and I agree with him on most of his statements about the game. I mean, it literally is a cheap puzzle book with a fancy coat of paint in the form of an explorable world contained in it.
What my original comment was about was that that puzzle was ridiculously easy, I'm dumb as bricks and could figure it out within the twenty-second clip we got in the video, so I felt like his criticism and actions in the footage during that puzzle either weren't genuine (He was playing it up for the video) or he simply didn't even look a few inches to the left of the screen to see the solution to the puzzle right in front of him.
I think his main point with showing that section in the video was that at the time it wasn't obvious because never before that point was it shown that using resources outside of the puzzlebox was a solution. So when he got to that point he didn't even think to look at the tree in the background.
I'm so glad for the quality of this channel's presentation. I remember watching Reviews on the Run as a kid, sitting on the couch wondering when I should turn the TV off and actually PLAY video games. This channel actually makes me want to watch, even if it's a game I wouldn't normally care about.
You suppose to come back and check what NOT count as a solution if you accidently solved the puzzle without understanding the rule.
It's perfectly acceptable to dislike a shitty pretentious non-game like The Witness.
+RaithSienar Howdydoo /v/eddit!
+RaithSienar it may be shitty and is most def. pretentious but it's a pack of ~300 puzzles at worst, that's not a non-game by any measure. A non-non-game if you will.
+RaithSienar this the opposite of a non-game its too much gameplay not enough everything else.
how is it pretentious at all?
+RaithSienar save that vitriol for walking simulators, you at least do shit in this game
You're not supposed to smash your face against the puzzles until you beat them. I'm getting to the end of this game now and I would asspull that only 30% of the time I solve a puzzle the first time I encounter it. If you don't feel like you're going to solve it any time soon, you just need to walk away. The difficulty curve comes from leaving the puzzles you have the most trouble with for last. The structure comes from figuring out what the symbols mean and what the rules are. If you don't understand what a symbol represents, that means it's not time to solve that puzzle yet.
It will come to you, it just takes time. If there's a puzzle that's frustrating you just take a stroll and relax. Look around for totem puzzles. Maybe take a boat ride. I usually take long walks and end up revisiting old areas and discovering new things about them that I completely miss. By the time I'm done my little adventures I'm mentally equipped to solve the puzzle I was stuck on, and then I can complete about two more before being stuck solid again.
Basically just don't assume you're going to tear through this game in a weekend like you did with Portal. You need to find out how to enjoy being on the island and do puzzles because that's what you want to do. I hated this game too in the beginning, but as it started to unravel and I found out what really is I learned to love it.
Why so defensive George? No need to reafirm that is just your opinion. Its your review after all.
+Rafael Gonçalves Have you looked at this comment section?
+Rafael Gonçalves Seeing the responses he's getting, I can see why he'd be defensive. "He just doesn't get it!" is one of the go-to arguments, but he's even being accused of clickbaiting for having a dissenting opinion of the game...
+Tio H Well, in all fairness, being defensive probably make that response.
He started saying he wasnt really into the game (which is fine, I sucked at games like Civilization), and then he went about how the game was poorly done (which is also fine, he did had the means to back that statement) but all the "It's my opinion, man" it's really counterproductive to the whole review and not really funny.
It's a review, and he should review the game instead of his "experience" with the game because it ultimately feels like he sucks at the game itself and that shouldnt be an excuse to not do a proper review. Just because the game is "flat" doesnt mean you cant make a more layered dissection of what's wrong with it. He's cornering himself for no reason with this review.
I mean, I had no idea how the game is after seeing this, except that is long and has a lot puzzles.
+tomstonemale I think the reason that he keeps stating that it's just his opinion is that he understands to an extent how much this game isn't for him, and that the way he sees the game isn't going to match how a lot of other people see it, not because he's right or wrong, but rather that he just experienced this game differently. A lot of the things about the game that he brought up as the game's failing are the reasons that so many other people are enjoying the game so much.
For example, he said that the game lacks a "carrot on the stick" for its puzzles. For me, the joy of figuring out the puzzles is the carrot on the stick, and it's clear to me that it's what the game's going for. There were a few times where I solved puzzles to get certain narrative items, and the satisfaction I got from solving the puzzles far outweighs that of getting the items themselves.
Doofus
I understand that, but to me most of this review feels like a filler. He's unusually redundant at telling us how the puzzles are hard to understand and how the game is not his jam.
You could call this an honest review by him admiting he wasnt very good at playing the game, but I'm not very good at a lot of games that other people like and I'm sure nobody is really interested on that if I have to tell them how a game actually is.
In the end it just feels dishonest if I tell them I'm bad at a fighting game and then start telling them what I found wrong with it, but in the end it's just my opinion. It's an excuse and not really necessary. Specially for George since he has proven to be capable of delivering quality material before.
"Maybe the puzzles couldn't have been constrained to the screens" -- Evidently Super Bunnyhop was oblivious to the other 50% of the game, and hence people watching this review left wondering why a line-drawing game needs fancy 3D graphics.
Yo, seen your comments on a few Witness reviews.
Which was your favourite Witness Let’s play? Been looking for a decent one to watch but they all suffer from the same lack of attention span and direction.
Savnarae had the best one.
Philip Broughton-Mills thanks 😊
Philip Broughton-Mills ok, 2 mins into the first video and I feel like this is going to be good. Thanks 👍🏻
@@Fogmeister Might I suggest Keith Ballard's playthrough?
If you've ever done one of those random IQ tests on the internet that use puzzles instead of questions, you've played the Witness.
+An Actual Dinosaur You've clearly not played The Witness
+ThePhantomTommy You've clearly never taken an I.Q. test.
+Jade Venator ........not bad....
+An Actual Dinosaur All IQ tests i have ever seen use puzzles, not questions.
+An Actual Dinosaur And at least those didn't charge me 40 dollars to take them either.
"In fact, all these screen are why I think this game is generations behind Portal, Antichamber, even Braid. Unlike those games a vast majority of the puzzles in the Witness aren't organically built into the level design. Whearas those other games make use of simulated space, time, and physics, most of The Witness' puzzles are so flat and archaic that they could work exactly the same on a piece of paper."
^ Hearing this tells me that you missed the most exciting revelations in this game and what makes the design of the island so awe inspiring. You do need paper to take notes (I think that's a better method that running to photoshop - that sounds rough!) but the way this game uses simulated space to solve puzzles is actually amazing.
I love your videos and enjoyed hearing why you didn't like the game. I hope after some time you're able to go back and maybe see what I think is so special about it.
Most of the fun I find in the witness is precisely figuring out the obscure rules. Also I have yet to experience any inconsistency in the mechanics.
There is no inconsistency. If you find inconsistency in “the rules” it is because you haven’t worked out what the rules are and you need to re-evaluate the rules.
This reviewer seemed to miss like 90% of the content of the game. 😂
saying the environmental puzzles came "too few, too late", just tells me you missed a lot...
Maybe him missing a lot of them over the span of 40 hours is a sign that it's unintuitive to find them in the first place, and that finding them isn't exactly easy for some people, even if they try. 🤔
you forgot Talos principle ... WAYYY better than this game
+Lord Zephyros i heard a lot of good stuff about the game , i might give it a try .
Talos principle has both the story and the puzzles! Can't beat Portal, but damn close.
+Lord Zephyros I've never played it, but I have heard it's one of the best first person puzzlers out there. And that's really funny since the developers of that also make the big dumb Serious Sam games which I love to death. It's pretty funny when you think about it.
+DarkStarAngelo if I'm not much mistaken, guys that made FTL wrote the script. It was a nice surprise indeed! The rarest of games that made me look into myself, question my beliefs and keep the game immersion in the meantime!
+pizza pasta It may very well beat it, but let's not forget who is drawing inspiration and experience from whom :) besides, puzzle types are completely different in terms of interacting with spacetime
This, happening in the background... just hurts me 4:02
I was expecting the puzzles to be environmental... not panels.
that's disappointing.
+Min Lungelow They are both. For me this game captured what I liked about the Myst series more than any other puzzle game if that is what you were looking for. Of course we all have our own likes and dislikes so maybe it wouldn't be as good to you, but I found exploring the island super exciting, mysterious, and fun.
Thanks for making this video. This is almost exactly the experience I had playing The Witness, and even more frustrating than the game itself was that it seemed *everyone* else was on board with the game. I understand the strengths of the game, but it just does nothing for me.
No mention of the Talos Principle?
The sound design is a real killer for a game like this. You can make this and not have motion, not have music, not have interactive characters, and let the background noise make it feel like it's coming alive, but without that this kind of environment feels catatonic.
+Disco King which is why the sound design in this game is _fucking awesome_
he was wrong about the sound design, he even said no wind when very obviously you can hear it. I don't know what he was listening to
+happyguyxlii Wind is supposed to make things move.
+Tio H Like the clouds, which do move. To be fair only some do, so BunnyHop was half right.
The sound is actually well done for this, as a fan of the game. If there was music, you'd either like it (until it loops for the twentieth time) or you'd dislike it and be annoyed and patronized by it constantly while trying to puzzle. What little sound is there is very satisfying, very situational, and very good at being a nice little accompaniment to your puzzling to keep you from feeling like you're in a soundless void. There's never silence, there's always the gentle flow of water, the rustling of leaves, the hum of machinery etc. The footsteps alone are a treat, tbh.
The verdict on this game is very simple. Like puzzles? You'll like The Witness. Don't like puzzles? You won't like The Witness.
+Disco King You can hear the wind and grass/trees will blow in the wind. I don't know where this accusation is coming from. The sound-design is minimal by choice, but just because there isn't a effing tropical storm with trees blowing left and right (like in most games) does not mean it's not there
Rewards are only for those who seek momentary pleasures, but the true reward is when you witness how the game make you behold yourself
This is really interesting bc the witness has and probably will always be my number one game but to see his perspective is pretty cool to think we both went throught the same experience and felt about it differently
You know what? I think this is a fair review. The Witness was absolutely phenomenal for me, but that's because I love puzzles. The game was just a pretty wrapper for some neat puzzling. If the puzzles are a barricade to what you want, and not the actual thing you want, then you won't like The Witness. If you want to be made to feel smart, instead of wanting to put your smarts to the test, you probably won't like The Witness. If you have a problem with admitting you might be wrong about how you think a certain puzzle element works, or if you can't handle walking away from a puzzle you don't feel equipped to solve and coming back later, you will not enjoy The Witness. It seems to be a very niche game, and it only makes sense that people who don't enjoy puzzles enough to pay forty bucks for a pretty puzzle book just won't like it.
If you like puzzles though, The Witness is fucking fantastic all the way through and definitely 100% worth your $40.
Are you reacting to this? SEE YOU IN COURT M8.
Some of your criticisms seem to stem from the game being simply too hard. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that.
But a lot of your other criticisms do highlight things that have made me apprehensive to buy this myself. It's good to hear that perspective some someone who has actually played the game, as it seems almost everyone else has showered it with nothing but praise, yet I've not seen anything about this game that makes it seem worthy of that. I mean, not that it's not well or cleverly designed, but rather it just doesn't look interesting or fun.
And that's a disappointment to me. I really wanted to love this game. I'm a huge fan of Braid, and have been anticipating this one ever since it was first announced, albeit cautiously. Seems my worries were not unfounded. Maybe I'll pick it up when it gets a lot cheaper, but not any time soon.
+Scrustle Its not even hard its just purposefully abstract and badly designed which makes people think its smart because you're only solving puzzles. Also it comes off as really pretentious with its ending and use of quotes. Jonathan Blow really wants us to know how deep he is.
+Scrustle I think you have to really know you will like this kind of game. I knew when I saw material of the game that I would enjoy it but this game is NOT for everyone. There has only been 3 panels out of 500 that I personally felt weren't designed well. If you are unsure if you would enjoy it you very likely might not. I knew I would like it and I was right. Loved every second of the game.
+Thanatos388 jfc, this game is not deep story-wise. it is very straightforward. I'm not sure why people are predisposed to thinking that every indie game is predisposed to attempting to be narratively deep when just some of them attempt to present a story in a nonstandard way. not deep, just not standard.
and then wat, badly designed? good god, man
happyguyxlii Did you watch the video where he talks about how nothing is explained and its easy as hell to clear the tutorial puzzles without learning anything? Or how you need to stand someplace specific in the 3D space to solve a 2D puzzle? Sounds cool but its superfluous and just pads the game.
+Thanatos388 If the perspective puzzles were not in the game, it would be a shorter game for sure. But, that does not make those puzzles any less valid, and in fact, they serve to justify the reason for the Island in the first place.
Looking forward to Sunder's reaction to this on the TOVG cast.
Thank you for listing antichamber in your short list of great puzzle games. Antichamber is awesome and definitely the most fun I've had in a puzzle game, and I don't hear about it enough.
Okay, but the one with the apple in the tree seemed really obvious
what was the very first music track you hear when the video starts? i dont think he listed it at the end
you know what's interesting tho, b-hop didn't seem to experience the conversation-like process of tutorial panels. i say this because he wrote "didn't want to spoil all of them i guess..." aren't the ones you don't want to spoil at the beginning?
Basically he just isn't good at line puzzles.
Thank you for concisely summing up everything I hate about this game. This is why you're one of my favourite game critics on CZcams.
This video is a great example of why reviewers are so useful. Your distaste of this game had you deliver information in a way that gave me insights about the game that I feel other content I've consumed was missing. I'm actually more interested in this game then I was before. Thanks. Great video.
Nice to hear this from you, I will think twice about buying this.
Why didn't you mentioned anything about BBC video clips???
It's completely possible he never found a single one. Judging by his frustration and complaints he's done the minimum required to unlock the first ending which is pretty barebones.
Yep, while I enjoyed the game immensely and fully intend to 100% it (second achievement), I have to admit, I agree with you on many points. It's cold-hearted and very strange beast of a game. Pretty looking but utterly lifeless. Not only hard, but alien and distant. Yet to me it is very intriguing and interesting, partly because of this, partly because of its' very thorough and deliberate design. In some ways it is anti-Undertale in nature. It certainly wasn't made to warm hearts and feel good about yourself, but rather melt brains and feel unworthy. Sorry, my English is bad, but I tried. ;-)
You did good job, reads well
I believe your point about it being like a puzzlebook is spot on. It's something I'd had a problem with, yet I wasn't sure how to convey it.
George, you're my favorite CZcams reviewer, and I usually share your opinion. Its weird that I had the exact opposite opinion as you on this one! To each his own, and I look forward to more videos!
the talos principal worked well because of a strong narrative story and balanced challenge
+Goatsee too bad the game itself in no way supported the story or vice versa
+Goatsee
If you want a puzzle game where the gameplay and narrative really add to each other play "the Swapper".
My biggest problem with the Talos Principle was that the game really lacks something that really binds everything in the game together.
+Hattori Hanzo +Le Green Bean It absolutely did though. Didn't you finish the game? The whole game is an AI test, so puzzle solving is the very core of the concept. The story is build around that. You are one AI among many to be tested in your logical thinking as well as your "human" qualities. Your logical thinking is tested by the puzzles, your humanity by the interactions with the terminals and your obedience to Elohim. Even the level design factors in, introducing these new AI's to humanities culture and past.
UGOTNUKED
Sure, but the puzzles themselves could've been anything still.
UGOTNUKED thats what the game tells you, but to me it always felt like "ok, now in order to get the next batch of terminal dialogue and messages, complete 5 more puzzles and you are set to progress".
Talos Principle isnt something like Portal.
Great Puzzles, Great Writting, but they definitely werent built around each other.
I normally like Super BunnyHop, but when I first watched this, it seemed very apparent that his experience was marred by his admitted inability to solve these puzzles. The puzzles can get pretty tough and based on that review, I think his frustration blinded him from judging this game more objectively. Like, I'm watching it again and there are so many erroneous, or just silly statements. For example:
1. He says the game has barely any aesthetic wrapper, which is so absurdly far from the truth. He may not have enjoyed the aesthetic, but to deny it's existence seemed petty. I can't think of a single game that's put more attention, care and subtlety into the visual design of it's environment as much as the island in the Witness.
2. He later talks about how the puzzles rules are conveyed not through words, but by symbols. He says this like it's a bad thing. Like he expects the game to pander to him. Part of what makes this game so good is that it respects the players intelligence to unravel it's mysteries and Sir Hop is over here suggesting that the game "Tell me how do dis".
3. Then he talks about how some of the tutorial puzzles for a specific mechanic can be beaten with dumb luck, which is partially true, but you won't get more than 2-3 puzzles into a mechanic on luck before you need to know how the mechanic works. He says it "punishes you later", but all you need to do is go back and look at the puzzles you just solved minutes ago and discover the solution by applying your brain.
4. When he says solving puzzles made him go "How was I supposed to know that???" I tried my hardest to think to a point where that happened. At no point, upon solving a puzzle, did I ever think "How was I supposed to know that". The game had either taught me how I was supposed to know that, or I had figured it out by observing my surroundings. I literally never once had that thought. In fact, when I had been stuck on a puzzle for a very long time and finally solved it, I usually realized what preconceived perspective I was clinging to that was preventing me from seeing the solution.
The Witness has a consistent theme of learning and discovery through open mindedness and a willingness to shift your perspective. but it sounds like Sir Hop just wanted to beat his head against a wall until the game magically progressed. I'd probably hate the game too if I viewed things so narrowly. Again, I'm normally a fan of his, but this review was very off base.
100% agreed.
He didnt say the game didnt have any aesthetic wrapper, he said the puzzles didnt which from all the puzzles i see in the video seems pretty accurate as its just like lines.
Hm, I am not sure, but it sounded like you didnt know you were able to solve solved puzzles again. That would allow the player to test their hypotheses and figure out the rules. Every puzzle - even the harder ones - allows the player to refine their hypotheses and zone in on. Or rethink their hypotheses entirely, potentially having missed one. The player can build up their own person knowledge base and ideas of how everything works. Kind of like every one of us does in "real life/reality".
Personally, the game taught me a lot of why the scientific method works so well. As well as that not everything needs to make sense or needs to be understood in order to experience it.
Don't know if you played The Talos Principle, but I think it's definitely up there with the good puzzle games you mentioned, plus the environment has a big role in the puzzles which I think you might enjoy a lot more :).
This looks like a Professor Layton game with only one type of puzzle, a dead and unnecessary overworld, and an inferior story. Both this and Layton are $40 games. Which is the better value?
Layton was the shit.
+Travey Duck The form of the puzzles is constant, draw a line from Circle to Round End. But the variations and combinations of rules you find to dictate how you draw said line, is greatly varied. The overworld plays a vital part in solving many puzzles as well, and is far from unnecessary.
Layton will clearly have more narrative, so if that's what will sell you, go for that. But there is a subtle story to be told in The Witness, if you care to dig for it.
KironVB You uh... you must really like that game 0-0
+Travey Duck
You have to play it to know it but"
" unnecessary overworld" couldn't really be less true.
PauLtus B The over world pales in comparison to Layton's though. That shit was 10/10
*One of the best Portal 2 tracks begins when you start to complain.*
OH YES DADDY
So if that's the case, what are your thoughts on Professor Layton?
Could it be excused on the basis that most of Professor Layton's puzzles are comparatively more self contained and diverse?
And that the story and surrounding narrative is vaguely-self aware of it's own absurdity?
wonder why you didn't also use the talos principle as an example like portal or antichamber. that game certainly offers narrative reward.
Man, I got that apple one instantly. And I never even played the game.
I cannot fathom why someone thought it was a good idea to make a beautiful world for a video game, and then have the gameplay just been walking between points and pushing your face up to a screen to solve a puzzle. Over and over and over again
+El Burrito because it works, and it works for a lot of people. sbh wasn't one of those people, I guess
Creating a beautiful world then having gameplay consisting of looking at small panels all the time is obviously a metaphor to how beautiful the outside world is yet all we do is play computer games on a screen, it's too deep for you Mann /s
Jokes aside, I did think that briefly, but then maybe it could be a metaphor for the developer too.
+El Burrito There is more to the environment than you may first think. People don't talk about it, because for most of us, that moment of realization is amazing. But the puzzles do serve as switches and can manipulate the world around you, so there again is more to it than that.
+El Burrito
I can see it being a good idea, I just don't see why they would charge much money for it, or expect a broad audience to like it, or to hype it up. I don't know if they tried to hype it up or what (I suspect that they did), but for whatever reason the game got way too much hype than it deserved from what I can see.
Go to your local quick stop and grab a maze book and a pencil for $5.
+Jawzu Thanks for letting us know you have no clue of what is involved in this game
I went through it without a guide, and I had a total of one problem:With some of the environmental puzzles I knew how I was supposed to look at certain things, but I still couldn't see it.
I haven't played this game yet, so I may be wrong, but it looks like the game could've just been an app with the puzzle boxes on the screen. Am I wrong? Is there something deeper, and is the island important?
+WondrousMoose There are a lot of puzzles that involve the environment.
+WondrousMoose yes, this game NEEDS the world around it.
There are many flat screen puzzles, but many also involve the environment. The Witness is about a keen eye and unlocking the next thing. It was put together with everything there for a reason.
***** The game is fundamentally different from any kind of puzzle book, because it needs to be able to tell you whether your solution is correct without giving you the actual answer. That is impossible to do with books.
There are VERY few that have you interacting with environment.
Try The Talos Principle, it's more like Portal and Antichamber
Thank you in advance Sir Jiorji
How does it compare to something like the Talos Principle?
Did you play/enjoy that?
8:28No ambient background sound?That's just wrong, it's all ambient background sounds. No insects, true, but no wind? What?
"this isn't fun it's a sheet of maths homeworks!"
Yeah I guess the thing is I love maths.
"But the Witness doesn't joke around."
Got me good.
After i saw your video i instantly wanted to play some Layton on my old DS.
Gotta say, I appreciate how frequently you upload, especially considering how high your standards of quality are.
i am two weeks away from dying horribly i was a real og subscriber you're just a poser
Para Soul just keep telling yourself that, you damn TROLL. Why dont you go twirl your markiplier meme mustache while XD'ing to epic fnaf scare cam compilations.
i am two weeks away from dying horribly bully
Para Soul go cry about it, you big baby
i am two weeks away from dying horribly maybe i will
This makes me want to see retro reviews of Myst and Riven
Don't feel too bad bro, you're much better at writing and expressing yourself.
on that note, what do you think about The Talos Principle?
While watching this, I think I came up with most of the solutions for the puzzles shown on the spot...
Then again, I am currently bombed off my skull, so that might explain it.
- A Drunk Person
PS
Love your show, man!
Dude, dude, dude...just git gud.
Seriously though it looks like a really niche game being lauded as a must-play experience.
What the heck is the solution to the last puzzle he showed @ 10:30 ? Unless you can rotate the block how could you ever contain the bottom right shape when it lies outside of all possible locations for it on the grid?
+sordsmen3456 Spoiler: the blocks can be "moved around" depending on how you draw the line.
Completely agree. One of my biggest semantic gripe was the lack of variety in the, what was it, 500+ puzzles?
Then you missed a lot of the game.
4:16
I haven't played or even heard of this game prior to that video but c'mon the tree in the background is such an obvious giveaway.
How many of the obelisks have you activated? Because your line about environmental puzzles being "too few and too late" or whatnot suggests to me that you missed a solid 20%+ of the game, minimum. I was finding environmental puzzles just two or three hours into what has so far been 25+ hours of play, and I find multiple more every couple hours. Technically, you can find a puzzle in the environment about five seconds after starting the game, and two more minutes later.
That suggests you haven't actually found any, and are referencing something else entirely when you discuss 'environmental' puzzles.
The game loses its luster and sense of wonder rather quickly, and the anticlimactic ending just solidifies that. I wouldn't even call it an anticlimactic ending, but more so a lack of an ending almost entirely. Beat it in 3 days and was bored with it after the first 2.
Then the dev pulled a phil fish and started insulting and harassing his customers. Go look at their steam forums, they have added sub forums like 'price complaints', and 'dumb internet comments', where they put even polite legitimate criticism in.
Here's the truth about the witness: Half the development cost was Johnathan Blow's living expenses over the last several years. That's right.....his grand ol plan was to get a game developed, take out a bunch of business loans, and sit pretty living off half a million a year.
I'm so glad I got a refund before the two hour mark.
Looks like a good free to play iOS game.
+Brett Wayland If by free, you mean $40.
Brett Wayland good thing it's coming to IOS soon.
CE53 My point was that it wasn't worth (near) that amount.
***** I don't think you understand jokes.
+Brett Wayland I dont think you do. You just said you were making a point about the games (lack of) value. now you were just making a joke? make up your mind.
5:33 Or so you thought it was a joke...
Hey I'm curious on what your thoughts on "The Vanishing of Ethan Carter" is as I haven't seen really anyone review it but also because it is a arbitrary puzzle game with a pretty interesting exploratory narrative, good music, very enchanting atmosphere and overall generally a much more polished feel. It is indeed one of those puzzle games but I'm curious to see if you'd be more agreeable to this genre with a different game.
You know there is a story? And eventually when you get there, just like now you can notice and do the puzzles you had more easily, you can notice the story all over the Island.
Dont think I've seen anyone get filtered this hard.
filtered by iphone puzzles
Gotta disagree on the tutorial puzzles being poorly designed. In fact, they do the opposite of what George says. They very clearly explain the rules for all the different little symbols. They purposefully give you ones you can brute force, and then one you can't. You have to go back through the ones you unintentionally solved until you figure out the rule. Because you have to learn the rule, you teach it to yourself in a way that sticks in the memory. Calling that "bad design" is not accurate. Wanting more explanation is fine, but what is in the game is not bad design
No they dont
@@budlikycz2445 Yep they do. Git good
There is no such thing as a puzzle you can't brute force.
Have you played the Talos Principle? From my perspective, its a similar puzzle game which fixes everything you had a problem with from this game. Clever puzzles that aren't disconnected from the environment, good at tutoring the player, and has one of the best executed stories I've ever seen in a video game.
It also saddens me to see that the majority of your audience seems to consist of 14-year-olds who dismiss the game faster than you can bat an eye with "this is the worst shit ever", "pretentious journalist bait" and so forth.
If you want a good puzzle game, play Infinifactory :-) As for this game, looks like something you could play in a web browser, no need for the fancy graphic world.
+xisumavoid Browser? This could easily be an app on the android store. And the philosophy quotes are the dumbest most up your own ass shit I've seen in a game for some time.
+xisumavoid Love both infinifactory and the witness, and there are a lot of puzzles that use perspective, reflections and positional lighting. Not really suitable for a flash game.
RedWurm They don't need it. Putting yourself in the right position in a 3D space to solve the 2D puzzle is neat but really unnecessary, it comes off as bad design and a really lazy way to pad out your game.
+DAudIcI if he made the game you're talking about, the majority of puzzles in The Witness would not exist
+xisumavoid If this game were just the 2D puzzles as a browser game or app, I would have little-to-no interest in it. But as the full game that it actually is, it's quickly becoming one of my favorite games. I assure you, there's a lot more to it than just walking from one puzzle panel to the next.
Infinifactory is a great game too! But honestly, it's way more "puzzles for the sake of puzzles" than The Witness. There's a huge part of the gameplay that is completely unmentioned in this review. The moment I accidentally discovered it, my mind was blown. It completely changes the way you look at everything on the island and it's incredibly satisfying to hunt down. It also would be completely impossible for a simple browser game or phone app.
So it's for the most part a phone puzzle game with an unnecessary but pretty framing device.
Might get it. I'm having trouble getting to sleep lately.
Hey, thanks for putting this out there. I've seen nothing but glowing praise for the game in the early reviews, and I was holding off on a purchase until someone actually addressed the concerns I had about the game. You went into depth on all of them! Like you said, I can see where this game is appealing to a certain kind of gamer but I am not that kind of gamer. You gave me the information I needed to know whether I should buy this game - thanks!
P.S. I've been watching your videos for a long time and really like them. I wish you had a Patreon so I could support you directly!