Religion Harms Society | Michael Nugent | Oxford Union
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- Michael Nugent argues that religion harms society.
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Filmed on Thursday 7th November 2013
MOTION: This House Believe That Religion Harms Society.
RESULT: Motion Carried.
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ABOUT MICHAEL NUGENT:
Michael Nugent is an Irish writer and activist. He has written three books, co-written two and was one of the three writers of comedy musical play I, Keano. He has campaigned on many political issues, often with his late wife Anne Holliday, and he is chairperson of the advocacy group Atheist Ireland. He argues that atheism provides a better model of reality, and a better basis for morality, than believing in gods; that atheists can enjoy the benefits that many people get from religion, without the harmful effects; and that the state should be secular, promoting neither religion nor atheism. He writes a blog about happiness and atheism, and he supports Bohemians and Leeds United football clubs.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY:
The Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. It has been established for 190 years, aiming to promote debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.
This is the best proposition in any Oxford Union debate ever. Every single word added to his points - no verbosity, no unnecessary jargon, just pure facts. Michael Nugent, I salute you!
I can only join my voice to that of the 196 people who commented before me: That speech was powerful, brilliant and so right. Thank you so very much, Mr Nugent. Long, healthy life to you. We need people like you.
@Get Zappéd 1974 At least cat videos are validly gettin views, but religious ones get millions out of people's delusions
every word he spoke was the sad reality of our world
Chino Pisces I think ISIS beheading a man, or lighting a man on fire for beliefs is sad, and it is real. Ergo, a sad reality.
Or it's like seeing that there is mold on the cheesecake, and even though there are good things in the cheesecake, like sugar and cream cheese, It is still a moldy cheesecake.
So you can look at a moldy peice of cheesecake and by not focusing on one sliver you can get rid of the mold?
+Marcos Escobar that is a brilliant analogy
+Marcos Escobar - There is a sad reality of our world. The misunderstanding often is that without religion the world would be a better place. Yet, we have seen societies founded by non religious men and it's often even worst. When do we realize the problem is us!?
Kepran
- USSR under Marx, Stalin, and Lenin. The red army China completely annihilated religion in the name of communism. Just to name a few.
Peace!
"Religion corrupts morality", well said
2022, this speech is still relevant
🌕6,000 A.D - Speech still relevant around the planet, sadly humans are still clinging to their prophecies, delusions, crosses and amulets, and it will be so until the end of human extinction.
I wish I could remember this word for word to preach it to religionists whenever I have the chance
Most people of faith are unreachable due to the deep rooted childhood indoctrination
1:42 this is one of the best arguments against religion I’ve ever seen. How have I not seen this moment in an Agatan foundation compilation or something. Wow!
I think Agatan is on hiatus or stopped posting, but you're right
The most beautiful indictment against the perversion that is "faith", that I've ever heard.....
Superb I second the motion, religion absolutely harms society 🤔
Wonderful, one of the best arguments I’ve heard in a long time
I question people that believe they need religion to do good in the world, I think it says a lot about them.
They are psychos held by a chain if they think they need religion to be good
I'm going to participate in next year's EAMUN conference and I could not be more grateful for finding this channel today. So very helpful. It really improves my debating skills.
All that coughing you can hear is a deliberate tactic by some of the religious in the audience to try and put this side of the argument off their stride as they're speaking, I've seen that happen before in debates I've attended. Thing is, if you need to resort to such tactics what does that actually say about your position in the first place ?
Exactly, they are so petty and insolent
@@FactStorm Yes because on some level I think they know they're wrong.
@@adrianh332 Or just in denial and are butt-hurt that anyone would "dare" scrutinize their feeble faiths
Simple, to the point and filled with evidence.
The opposite of Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro.
Peterson and shapiro - the apologists..they sicken me
Brilliant speech!
Remove religion.
My most favorite indictment of all time!!!
irrefutable logic trumps irrational wishful thinking.
An expertly crafted argument. Cheers, Mr. Nugent.
One of the best and most passionate specch I've heard on this topic.
Perfect! No comment here can help that speech!
One of the best arguments I've ever heard in a debate. Clear and concise with a logical appeal to the motion.
Very well said Michael Nugent. I don't think I could have put it better. Clear , well paced and for the most part off script.
Thank you, Mr. Michael, for such an amazing speech. I'm so thankful that you used general vocabularies in your speech. It's so clear and easy to understand your points as a non-native speaker. Bravo! 👏
This debate is amazing I love the freedom of speech in England which most of the countries does not have much.
Excellently enunciated excellence
Simply brilliant.
Thumbs up just for the title!
Brilliant.
Summed up beautifully.
Absolutely brilliant
One major example I use is the Catholic Church/Islam stopping mankind from progressing forward. Studying and understanding our environment
That was incredible
Good stuff.
A perfect analysis
Excellent!
This is great!
The best speech
Good job Nugent, never heard of him but now I know of him :)
I'm smiling. Thanks.
Great speech!
Good speach.
Every word he said is so true!
Wow, Wow and Wow!!
Here is a quote that would never pass the lips of a senior leader of any Abrahamaic religion, "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” The Buddha
Truly amazing speech. Its one of the best I heard in this group !!!
I would love to see a debate over whether media corrupts society or not.?
@Greg czcams.com/video/2z9UyPurVok/video.html
Michael Nugent where have you been all my life?
Yup. Religion messes with your thinker.
Where's the lie?
Help !!! From America
sadly praying or karma doesn't save innocent women and children's lives anywhere in the world 🌎
When God handed out presentation skills, this guy was near the front of queue!
@Get Zappéd 1974 The only possible explanation for Mr. Nugent's oratory prowess is the devine - The Good Lord undoubtedly sent Mr.Nugent to test our faith, much like dinosaur bones.
@Get Zappéd 1974 I sense your fear, and that is OK. Why shouldn't we overwhelmed when confronted with Lords undeniable power!.
But be assured - that power is a benevolent power. An eternity of paradise awaits you if you reject the poison the Devil has put into your mind, and instead accept the love and truth the Lord has etched upon your heart. I shall make all my fellow parishioners aware of your story and I promise you Get Zapped 1974, we shall pray harder and longer for you than we have prayed for anyone before. There will be no need to thank me for this, instead just pass on the word of God.
I wish more people would wake up and walk away from religion. Or at least become willing to discuss it openly.
Glad that I was introduced today to another fascinating Freethinker !
#OrganizedReligion has always been a challenge, but I believe it may not be so much a problem with the concepts, as the humans running those organizations and the humans following them - which is the same problem with every organization, business, government agency, academic institution, NGO, army or anything else. Perhaps religion just gives justification too easily. But authority usually does, regardless of the organization in my observation. As a non-religious person, those are my observations, care to debate?
Hear hear
I agree with him.
great speech.
One of the most straightforward and scathing and compelling arguments presented on here. It exposes utterly the twisted knot of religion and its terrible influences on the endeavour of civil society.
Is he related to Ted Nugent?
I don't need to interact with anyone who rejects my periods of meditation whilst they pay for weekly sessions of mindfulness. Just need them to accept my faith as I do theirs.
@GregAn idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. Can't say that the dictionary supports your opinion.
Society harms itself. One could even say that society is entirely based on the harming of others.
we are born without religion. whomever suckers you into a religious fantasy is not my concern and i wish to keep it so
Thanks
Saying religion harms society is about as useful as saying the internet harms society. There's nothing wrong with the thing in itself, it's how we use it.
He's talking about how we use it...
croutonfada
How we use science harms society. Should we therefore get rid of science or should we use it for the good of all? Similarly saying "get rid of religion" is about as useful as "get rid of science"
@@bartconnolly6104we must ask ourselves whether we find a faith-based belief system useful when we have proof-based belief systems largely based on empirical evidence.
@broomshed empiricism is insufficient to run society. Theremis a need for values and morals whichnare not scientifically or empirically derivable. The new atheism of the late 20th centurynis a failure and the older atheism of godless communism killed hundreds off millions.
@broomshed Christianity a faith ismformexample heavily rooted in rationalism. Indeed some no most mofmthe greatest,scientists were Christians and Jews.
Absolutely fantastic speech
I am not sure, but to me it seems that pretty much all the issues mentioned are just in the interpretations of some misguided people, not intrisically in the religions or in religion in geeneral, since there are religions which seem to cause only very rarely such trouble since one cannot make such interpretations there. So, the problem might be not religion, but the human nature.
HeyDudefuss,what the heck do think religion comes from?and what the fuck is the human nature?fart..fart..fart...
Because of few faulty /problamatic components of system leaves us two options either change components or discarding whole systems. Changing components is always benificial and recommend solutions.
for religions to not be harmful, they’d need to be changed in major ways
and what would be a point of them then? unless people shift their religious beliefs to being agnostic or unitarian universalists, taking just non-harmful parts of all kinds of religions instead of dogmatically following any one religion
@@FruityHachi people were aggressive and killing others even before births of prophets and holi books. So problem is human behavior. It constantly needs guidance and support. But we fail to provide values and guidance and instead use that aggressive nature to benifit own intrests and agendas. I haven't seen any religion who can claim not involved in wars and killing. Only problems is except us everyone needs to be sensible and careing.
@Get Zappéd 1974 when we say market it means a place where everyone search for profitability and for that all politeness, /pleasing tactic are used. Only inclusiveness philosophy is benificial never cleverness of exclusion. To fathom this you have to be really free from entangles and prejudice .otherwise filth and garbage are also part of Universe.
Brilliant
Brilliant speech.
I think its a matter on how these priest, Pastors, imam or Pharisees translates and understands the holy book e.g: Holy Bible, Koran, Torah. I'm stating how these religious leaders can share differently on what the book actually claims/teaches us. So please don't say that Religion corrupts society. Its the religious leaders that corrupts society, not religion in it self. So I ask you mr Michael Nugent to see things in different perspective.
Actually Im saying this not for mr Michael Nugent but for other people. (not calling them professors-mainly because of their one sided views and lack of research in historical, personal, and what other people thinks) Just because you guys wear tuxedos it dosent make you guys smart. Hell there are probably people in the comments who are actually smarter than those people at Oxford Union.
Kaboom!
I agree. But Christianity builds you up, If you obey the word of God, and don't pull it to pieces, like religion does, misrepresenting the Truth.
Fabulous arguments. Clear and simple enough for even the most brainwashed and indoctrinated mind to understand.
M [ICHAEL N [UGENT] : MN [ ICHAELUGENT ] : AMEN [ I CALL YOU GENT ] BOOOO!! LETS HAVE A "MIC CALL" 4A "NEW GENT"!! YEAH!! AS MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN... IN OTHER WORDS... ONE MAY HAVE BEEN CALLED TO AUDITION, BUT, DID ONE GET THE PART??
.
General statements and presumptions on thing which does not exists "religion". Religion is intellectual category in real life there is no religion. There is only Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches, countless protestant and other pseudo-Christian denominations, Islam, Judaism, etc. The idea of religion in modern Religious studies is even more vague and general than that of for example "a vehicle". Shooting arguments on every side and putting it up together as an argument does not work. It has no intellectual weight whatsoever.
The British government harms society. I can make an argument just as rational for that as this. All things human do some harm, and nearly all do some good.
Michael made it clear that many things cause harm, and also that religion can be a force for good. However this in no way diminishes the significant harm that religion causes. No truer words have ever been spoken!
When someone says that x harms society it does nothing to say that y does also. It doesn't lessen x. Also harm is on a spectrum, some harms are worse than others.
Overonator so, what you are saying is that comparisons are not reasonable in a conversation?
I'm saying exactly what I said and what I said does not imply what you suggested it does.
Richard Blackmore I think he might be saying that it's a change of subject to say that other things cause harm. We are discussing religious harm or help in a debate format. If the argument is 'Spanish bullfighting is barbaric" it is a change of subject and thus a fallacy to say "Well, so is Irish hare-coursing!". It may well be true but that sheds no light on the subject at hand.
Have we progressed from fruitless debating of religion's validity, instead evaluating its societal consequences? That would be a sign of our liberal times...
👏👏👏👏
What he said!
T
When you say religion harms society, it means that it deviates us from living the right way. But in atheism there is not right way to live.
But that's a good thing because we can figure it out for ourselves instead of following ancient dogmas
What we can figure out ourselves??
@@BerishaFatian The 'right way to live'
@@asherloat8570 But you're assuming that there is a right way to live. I know there is but in atheism why there is such a way and what makes it right??
@@BerishaFatian Well there's no objective 'right way', but a secular society is certainly better off than a religious one
truth has a natural cadence to it. if you pause the video at 6:59 you'll see exactly the nature of this cadence demonstrated in the posture of a man who knows he's right.
AMEN to everything that man just said. Also as he said, do not lose your focus or be distracted by claims that "religion also does good". What was being asked was "does religion harm society". Not whether religion also does good, and not whether other things also do bad. His main point here was simple, DO NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Stay on subject and ANSWER THE QUESTION. Something religious people don't like to do.
“Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.” - H.L.Mencken
“The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
"Religion is a phase a species goes through when it evolves enough intelligence to ask profound questions but not enough to answer them." - Bill Flavell
Very through
Like 706. Bernie-Ojeda 2020
2:43 gross. That dude is nothing but hatred
How?
stop coughing!
For all those anecdotes, I mostly see that stupid people do bad things, religious or not.
But when the religious scripture actively promoptes that behaviour, i dont see how those act are independent of religion
I wish to 'heck' I could believe we are going to paradise and there is a GOD who is taking care of us but I just can't stomach it.
The correct motion would be society harms itself.
He makes sense,but he's on his own crusade.
He's absolutely obsessed with religion.
He once suggested an Atheist mass on a Sunday in Dublin where all the Atheists get together and follow his version of a moral compass.
He means well,but....
"THE DEVIL IS A LIAR FROM THE BEGINNING" 🤔
You could put forward the motion "food harms society" and get the motion past. It's a poor question. It was obviously written by someone who is biased and anti religious. I can't think of anything that doesn't harm society when taken to extremes. The motion should have been: religion does more harm than good. I guess it wasn't that because the motion wouldn't have past.
Something that does more harm than good: harms society. Something that does more good than harm: helps society. It's the same motion..
The motion had two sides, harm and help; they posted all the arguments under the side they argued. It's a bit messy on YT but the motion was balanced.
If this were true then we should be able to look at societies founded by atheists for such an example. They were actually worst! Peace to all!
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Why do you find it necessary to write your posts with Capital letters? It makes me think that you don't trust your own words.
Religious idiot
You've got a lot of work to do yet, with 2 billion christians around the world with an opposing worldview, this little talk won't make a scrap of difference. Prove God doesn't exist , then your talk won't be so futile. The argument of " I'm smart and your not " on the belief in God, just doesn't cut it.
I love all these comments here, how all this is so brilliant and true. Right off the bat the thing's he says against religion are false.
Religion is atleast in America the cause for our morals and civility. Also we use to be more respectable as people and more modest all stemming from religion.
Yes there are bad apples and horrible things that happened from people who believe in god. But to say that's what the religion overall does to society is simply not true.
And there's no evidence what so ever that if everyone overall in the society were all atheists, that there wouldn't be horrible people doing horrible thing's. All this is really so rediculious and brainwashing atheists to believe this about religion. I would say that's worse then the indoctrination atheists talk about that happens to kids from religious homes. Which for the record is not necessarily bad. That's also another lie atheists spread.
@Greg thats just pure ignorance. All moral values are religious values and there no such thing as a secular value
@Greg religion is the only safe guard we have from people to naturally behave as their animal selves. When people do behave like animals, religious or not, its irrelevant to religion being bad and proof on our own we by default will be bad without god
@Get Zappéd 1974 what did I say that was wrong and provide information that proved its wrong
@Get Zappéd 1974 literally every moral thing is learned from religious teachings. There is no other source we as a society has gone go-to learn morality in the west and all judao/Christian societies, which share the same moral values and has spread civility throughout the world where it didnr exists before and only caused the world as a whole to cause people to becomes more civilized. All id this is literal facts of history. We use to be more barbaric and dangerous to each other overall. Youre really just regurgitating atheist talking points that is void of any history that we know to have caused the world to be a better place due to serving God and all agreeing on morals to serve God under which was more or less impossible to find worldwide as Christianity has spread it over the years through the world.
@Get Zappéd 1974 I described history what happened, those are the facts. If im wrong you should be able to tell me the real facts and show me how evil religion is that religion didn't do all that. And if you don't know maybe you should just say you don't know and get off your high horse, display some humility, it a good for you