I don't know about open baffles, but mine are closed each with one 15" woofer , two dome mid-range drivers, and four dome tweeters. But most importantly are the other woofers placed in the back. They are 180 degrees out of phase with the front speakers, and thus overall produce a push pull effect, thus placing the low frequencies throughout the entire full room. The effects are absolutely incredible.
one of the best informative videos i've see. i thought i knew a little bit about speakers and how they work. turned out i know nothing 😊. really great stuff . thanks for sharing.
Can you make a semi-open baffle speaker where the baffle us a large folded tube that goes from about 3' high behind the speaker, down to the floor, doubles back, then back up to a large opening next to the speaker at 3' from the floor so it can be pushed up against the wall?
Thanks Danny I I've been waiting, when we get back to business. I look forward to the following videos. You can be sure I will look at them. I am very grateful that you share this knowledge. Thanks again for this great channel.
Hi. I have a open baffle designed speaker. It has two 15 inch speaker units. I want to try adding a sidewing to speaker. Is the a general rule how long the sidewing should be and is it placed to the inner (faced toward the other speaker) or the outside of the speaker? BR.
I have a question. If I go to calculate a speaker enclosure (Fs, vas, qts, and qtc of .707) and it comes out at something ridiculous like 200L (7 cubic feet) for a 6 - 8 inch woofer, by that point does it just make more sense to assume it's an 'open baffle' driver, rather than trying to build a 7 foot tall enclosure? Or do I try to squeeze it into something more reasonable like a 60L and just ruin the frequency response?
...Can I center the side walls around the middle of the board and maintain proportional dispersion at the front and back and therefore get a perfect 90* off axis cancel again....I think right now with my side board extending from the front to back it's turning more cardoid Forgot to say thank you for speaking on this I'm learning a lot these past few days and I need it! I posted a longer comment below :P
In blind speaker tests , listeners allways prefered open baffle sound...panelspeakers....even with excellent paneltreatment in box one has return of the waves inside on the cone of the speaker... At low levels its not so obvious but when i push volume the voice is changing of colour, not with open baffle
I swore I watched one of your baffle videos years back. I'm so glad you picked this up again anyways to talk some more. My house is finally ready to move back in and last night I just performed measurements on my 8x8" woofer array I built from the scraps while I've been trapped in this rental. I mostly want off axis cancellation to extend out for courtesy to my neighbors and I did the test and found a pretty awesome -6db dip @ 35hz and again @ 18hz ... Unfortunately it raises a little @ 28hz which is a popular tone for movies from my data Ive gathered on bass scenes. I'll test outside to verify my results but I have a 6" side wall to balance the wood up there but it only extends to the rear. On that note if no one bothered reading this far I'm gonna ask a question in a new comment. ...Can I center the side walls around the middle of the board and maintain proportional dispersion at the front and back and therefore get a perfect 90* off axis cancel again....I think right now with my side board extending from the front to back it's turning more cardoid
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for replying to my ramblings! I've attached photos of my current build. I haven't taken it outside to measure it yet but I assume since I have a long wall (which I only put up to balance the thing) only on the backside that it should produce an uneven cancellation pattern. Not 90* off-axis but somewhere further towards the back? So it's 6 inches but here's the pictures of my designs. imgur.com/a/mBXDVWd Can't I split the difference and put 3 inches in front and 3 inches behind to restore the perfect 90* null both ways? I'm going to investigate steel pipes to keep the weight up so I can maintain a completely flat board too but in the meantime would this do what i think?
@@littlegandhi1199 The H frame and U frame design both separate the front and back wave the same. If the side panels are the same length then the separation is the same. The issue with a U shape is that it puts a ton of pressure in that U shaped area. So you have to add lots of bracing to support those side panels to keep them from resonating. You will need a brace between each woofer and another inline with each woofer. An H frame splits the panel up so that you have less panel area to resonate. So with just a brace between each one it is not near as bad.
@@dannyrichie9743 H frame is alternating direction.the woofer faces right (forward/backward) and wire it out of phase? Can I use my remaining 8 woofers and build a 2nd stack and face it backwards (and attach it to the wall of the first one) to the same effect of lowering bass extension? This is what I read H frame is capable of doing and increasing directionality further to the front and back as well... Thank you for taking a second to guide me but you don't have to respond again if I'm too naive but I look forward to more of your videos on this topic and many others!
@@littlegandhi1199 In an H frame design the woofers can face either direction so long as they are wired in phase. And you can gang them up in a line or double stacked side by side.
I can't seem to find open baffle displays I can listen to in person. I live in northern Texas, if anyone knows a place where I can listen to them, I'd appreciate it.
"Open baffle minimizes room interactions." None of these guys seem to realize that open baffle speakers have equal output front and rear and it is the reflected sound that makes them sound good.
Hi Danny, Room interaction is key as you pointed out. Congrats for your achievements at the last shows. I’m really curious to listen to your open baffle maybe driven by your modded (really convenient) DC driven (amazing) tda7297...( would be nice a video on it if I might ask, amplification can be also 2-3 digits) by the way, if I may ask, what do you think about Kii3 or Dutch&Dutch? They both goes beyond the open baffle projecting sound towards the listeners... your opinion is of value to me. Keep doing this very interesting videos. My best Lorenzo
@@scaryperson27Maybe I made a mistake. Maybe he does have tweeters. It's not clear...I don't know if it's another speaker in the background or a bodgy tweeter mounting.
Built a simple open baffle 2 way 15” gold wood h frame and full range CTS like in the auratone. bi amped on 50w class d. . Crazy good for less than 300 all in. No way anyone can beat that for the buck. If you can let me know. Adjust it with the mini DSP and I will put it up against anything for less than $500. Siegfried had it right.
@@dannyrichie9743 My MiniDSP diginano does not have an analog input or output , everything is done in the digital domain . I have zero complaints about the sound
@@gerritgovaerts8443 That is still a very budget level product. And just image using a really good mid-fi level DAC for each channel set. A decent one is going to be in the $750 to $1000 range. So for eight channels you are $3500 to $4,000 into just for DAC's. For that kind of money you could get a high end DAC and use passive filters and have ten times the performance.
@@dannyrichie9743 Passive will always have drawbacks that no amount of money can correct : stored energy in caps and coils and transient behaviour (maybe not so much for 6 dB slopes , but who uses those) . Yes , going for 4 DAC's is expensive , but it is up to me to decide it's value : price is not value
@@gerritgovaerts8443 We've A/B compared the best passive filter parts and best all digital filters. The passive parts had MUCH less of a negative effect on the sound and was never a limiting factor of the performance. The all digital solution did not sound as good and was always the limiting factor to performance. Differences in the D/A conversion, power supplies, A/C noise, and multiple cables are far greater performance limiting factors and had a much wider degree of variance than the passive filter parts.
The main trade off is that you have to pull them at least three feet out into the room. They can't be placed close to the front wall or in the corners of the room.
@@gerritgovaerts8443 Not near as much as you think. Our sealed box single 12" servo sub will output about 2/3's of what our dual open baffle servo subs will do at 20Hz.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't have to think about it as I downloaded an Excel spreadsheet "SPLmax" from Siegfried Linkwitz website . It compares max SPL for dipoles (with dipole distance as an input) versus closed . It's a simple calculation and yes , it is a significant difference . For reaching 100 dB at 20 Hz , you are talking two 18 inch subs with 15 mm excursion and 700 mm dipole distance . One 12 inch subwoofer with 18 mm Xmax will do that too . Big difference !
@@gerritgovaerts8443 Those calculations don't really transfer over so well when you go to servo control, and drivers that will play flat to 20Hz in open baffle and not have overshoot or loose control.
What are your credentials, speaker design expertise and experience that gives you the right to mock someone who actually does it? I don't understand how tubes vs binding posts (or csbles) can make a difference but not knowing is not an arguement and neither is "lolol". Sure, be skeptical but not closed minded.
I'm curious why Mr. Richie is deleting comments from his videos. I suspect he's not comfortable answering questions that poke large holes in his methodology and highlight his misunderstanding of "open baffle" design basics.
@@dannyrichie9743 the one challenge I see with OB speakers is now close they can kept to boundaries especially the wall behind them. In most homes, where the listening room is also the living room and sometimes a bedroom, there is no option to have speakers 2-3m out from the rear wall. This is especially true of smaller homes and apartments. Is there a solution to this? Would DSP help? Are there OB speakers that are affordable (say under $3000) that are compatible with small rooms?
@@navinadv Side walls are not an issue, or no more than any other speakers. They do have to be pulled three feet or more out into the room. There is no getting around that. Treating the front wall helps a lot. DSP will not.
@@dannyrichie9743 3 feet is enough? I always assumed it was 6 ft. The 15” Hawthorne Trio (Auggie based) system needed more than 3 ft if I remember right.
Open Baffle speakers are for those who thinks outside of the Box, who knows no boundaries and who value real reproduction of music. Bass and Treble is only a hint of the audio perception. Why limit ones self!!!
Open baffle and passive crossovers is like using steam power in a car. Bad designs full stop. No getting round that. You accept a flawed design then try and correct or improve it. That’s backward thinking. Only in the USA I guess!
Actually the best sounding speakers all use passive filters. Electronic or all digital solutions still have a LOT of issues and introduce more problems. And they can often be the bottleneck of the system.
While I usually enjoy your videos, to me, this was a bust. I expected to see and hear how you came up with your open baffle design showing both front and back of the baffle, crossovers and the speakers you chose. This video described none of that. Disappointment.....
I don't know about open baffles, but mine are closed each with one 15" woofer , two dome mid-range drivers, and four dome tweeters. But most importantly are the other woofers placed in the back. They are 180 degrees out of phase with the front speakers, and thus overall produce a push pull effect, thus placing the low frequencies throughout the entire full room. The effects are absolutely incredible.
You’ve described an abomination of a speaker…
one of the best informative videos i've see.
i thought i knew a little bit about speakers and how they work. turned out i know nothing 😊.
really great stuff . thanks for sharing.
Excellent basics and sharing of interactions of the room and speakers. Appreciate that, cheers.
World's first Granite open baffle speakers from MACO Acoustic
LIVE IN CONCERT !! 😇😍🤩
Just what I needed right now project in the working
Really excited for the rest of this series!🔥 Thanks Danny!
Can you make a semi-open baffle speaker where the baffle us a large folded tube that goes from about 3' high behind the speaker, down to the floor, doubles back, then back up to a large opening next to the speaker at 3' from the floor so it can be pushed up against the wall?
Thanks Danny
I I've been waiting, when we get back to business.
I look forward to the following videos.
You can be sure I will look at them.
I am very grateful that you share this knowledge.
Thanks again for this great channel.
This man knows EXACTLY what he is talking about
Danny, thanks for your thoughts and insights into this type of speaker. Also, the HAIR is looking very retro and excellent! Carry on brother!!!
Danny, thanks for your input. On a different note, the owl seems very interested :)
Best Regards,
Can't wait for the next one !
Thank you so much
Nice subject, it is always nice to learn more about "off the beaten track" equipment.
Your videos are killer informative dude thank you
Love the shirt
Hence why planers do well in the bass.
Please do the video about aperiodic bass cabinets. They are used by Zellaton and Gethein
For me, AC/DC ended with Bon Scott's death, but that shirt is awesome!
Hi. I have a open baffle designed speaker. It has two 15 inch speaker units. I want to try adding a sidewing to speaker. Is the a general rule how long the sidewing should be and is it placed to the inner (faced toward the other speaker) or the outside of the speaker? BR.
Ran the subs across the room out of phase. Great idea!
Great content Danny
I have a question. If I go to calculate a speaker enclosure (Fs, vas, qts, and qtc of .707) and it comes out at something ridiculous like 200L (7 cubic feet) for a 6 - 8 inch woofer, by that point does it just make more sense to assume it's an 'open baffle' driver, rather than trying to build a 7 foot tall enclosure? Or do I try to squeeze it into something more reasonable like a 60L and just ruin the frequency response?
Nice shirt!
...Can I center the side walls around the middle of the board and maintain proportional dispersion at the front and back and therefore get a perfect 90* off axis cancel again....I think right now with my side board extending from the front to back it's turning more cardoid
Forgot to say thank you for speaking on this I'm learning a lot these past few days and I need it!
I posted a longer comment below :P
i love this channel
Cool shirt.
Where the wise owl gets his wisdom. Thanks Danny
It energized the room back and forward 90°or 180°???
Brian, have you tried BPC-157 and or GHK-Cu?
I wish you spoke about that Orion behind you!
I do, in another video.
In blind speaker tests , listeners allways prefered open baffle sound...panelspeakers....even with excellent paneltreatment in box one has return of the waves inside on the cone of the speaker...
At low levels its not so obvious but when i push volume the voice is changing of colour, not with open baffle
Open baffle only better than shit cabinets like most speakers. Real answer is properly designed cabinet.
nice tee shirt
So, the secret to open baffle is room treatment :)
My speakers are somewhere between being in the box and open out of the box. Best sound med l ever heard. Holographic. See my CH for more.
open baffle basics is the sound of the back of the speaker will cancel the sound coming off the front of the speaker
I swore I watched one of your baffle videos years back. I'm so glad you picked this up again anyways to talk some more. My house is finally ready to move back in and last night I just performed measurements on my 8x8" woofer array I built from the scraps while I've been trapped in this rental.
I mostly want off axis cancellation to extend out for courtesy to my neighbors and I did the test and found a pretty awesome -6db dip @ 35hz and again @ 18hz ... Unfortunately it raises a little @ 28hz which is a popular tone for movies from my data Ive gathered on bass scenes.
I'll test outside to verify my results but I have a 6" side wall to balance the wood up there but it only extends to the rear. On that note if no one bothered reading this far I'm gonna ask a question in a new comment.
...Can I center the side walls around the middle of the board and maintain proportional dispersion at the front and back and therefore get a perfect 90* off axis cancel again....I think right now with my side board extending from the front to back it's turning more cardoid
Are you asking if you can make your woofer section into more of a U shaped baffle?
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for replying to my ramblings! I've attached photos of my current build. I haven't taken it outside to measure it yet but I assume since I have a long wall (which I only put up to balance the thing) only on the backside that it should produce an uneven cancellation pattern. Not 90* off-axis but somewhere further towards the back?
So it's 6 inches but here's the pictures of my designs.
imgur.com/a/mBXDVWd
Can't I split the difference and put 3 inches in front and 3 inches behind to restore the perfect 90* null both ways? I'm going to investigate steel pipes to keep the weight up so I can maintain a completely flat board too but in the meantime would this do what i think?
@@littlegandhi1199 The H frame and U frame design both separate the front and back wave the same. If the side panels are the same length then the separation is the same. The issue with a U shape is that it puts a ton of pressure in that U shaped area. So you have to add lots of bracing to support those side panels to keep them from resonating. You will need a brace between each woofer and another inline with each woofer. An H frame splits the panel up so that you have less panel area to resonate. So with just a brace between each one it is not near as bad.
@@dannyrichie9743 H frame is alternating direction.the woofer faces right (forward/backward) and wire it out of phase?
Can I use my remaining 8 woofers and build a 2nd stack and face it backwards (and attach it to the wall of the first one) to the same effect of lowering bass extension? This is what I read H frame is capable of doing and increasing directionality further to the front and back as well...
Thank you for taking a second to guide me but you don't have to respond again if I'm too naive but I look forward to more of your videos on this topic and many others!
@@littlegandhi1199 In an H frame design the woofers can face either direction so long as they are wired in phase.
And you can gang them up in a line or double stacked side by side.
I can't seem to find open baffle displays I can listen to in person. I live in northern Texas, if anyone knows a place where I can listen to them, I'd appreciate it.
We are in North Central Texas and you can come in for auditions.
You missed out Linkwitz who don't need room treatment...In fact they say don't use it!!!
"Open baffle minimizes room interactions." None of these guys seem to realize that open baffle speakers have equal output front and rear and it is the reflected sound that makes them sound good.
Oh yeah. It's about time. Ready for this series from Danny!
Hi Danny, Room interaction is key as you pointed out.
Congrats for your achievements at the last shows. I’m really curious to listen to your open baffle maybe driven by your modded (really convenient) DC driven (amazing) tda7297...( would be nice a video on it if I might ask, amplification can be also 2-3 digits)
by the way, if I may ask, what do you think about Kii3 or Dutch&Dutch? They both goes beyond the open baffle projecting sound towards the listeners... your opinion is of value to me. Keep doing this very interesting videos.
My best
Lorenzo
John Darko has a very good interview in his channel with Bruno Putzeys covering the tower complement for Kii3.
BR
smh i watched to the end only to find out the info i wanted to hear will be in the nexxxxxt video lol
Yep. Lol. Still worth listening to though. This guy is great
@@scaryperson27Maybe I made a mistake. Maybe he does have tweeters. It's not clear...I don't know if it's another speaker in the background or a bodgy tweeter mounting.
Okay so first segment is about your show experiences and such okay, i hope you got it out of your system
Curious guy: so, about speaker design--
Danny: - - -OOPPPPEEEENNN BBBAAAFFFFLLLLLEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Built a simple open baffle 2 way 15” gold wood h frame and full range CTS like in the auratone. bi amped on 50w class d. . Crazy good for less than 300 all in. No way anyone can beat that for the buck. If you can let me know. Adjust it with the mini DSP and I will put it up against anything for less than $500. Siegfried had it right.
The MiniDSP is not recommended beyond using it as a learning tool. Those things will suck the life out of the music.
@@dannyrichie9743 My MiniDSP diginano does not have an analog input or output , everything is done in the digital domain . I have zero complaints about the sound
@@gerritgovaerts8443 That is still a very budget level product. And just image using a really good mid-fi level DAC for each channel set. A decent one is going to be in the $750 to $1000 range. So for eight channels you are $3500 to $4,000 into just for DAC's. For that kind of money you could get a high end DAC and use passive filters and have ten times the performance.
@@dannyrichie9743 Passive will always have drawbacks that no amount of money can correct : stored energy in caps and coils and transient behaviour (maybe not so much for 6 dB slopes , but who uses those) . Yes , going for 4 DAC's is expensive , but it is up to me to decide it's value : price is not value
@@gerritgovaerts8443 We've A/B compared the best passive filter parts and best all digital filters. The passive parts had MUCH less of a negative effect on the sound and was never a limiting factor of the performance. The all digital solution did not sound as good and was always the limiting factor to performance. Differences in the D/A conversion, power supplies, A/C noise, and multiple cables are far greater performance limiting factors and had a much wider degree of variance than the passive filter parts.
1.5 speed for normal English speed
What are the downsides of open baffle? Since it seems everything is a trade-off in audio design, what do the people who don't like it say about it?
The main trade off is that you have to pull them at least three feet out into the room. They can't be placed close to the front wall or in the corners of the room.
@@dannyrichie9743 that and the real low end needs a lot more surface area and excursion compared to closed or ported
@@gerritgovaerts8443 Not near as much as you think. Our sealed box single 12" servo sub will output about 2/3's of what our dual open baffle servo subs will do at 20Hz.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't have to think about it as I downloaded an Excel spreadsheet "SPLmax" from Siegfried Linkwitz website . It compares max SPL for dipoles (with dipole distance as an input) versus closed . It's a simple calculation and yes , it is a significant difference . For reaching 100 dB at 20 Hz , you are talking two 18 inch subs with 15 mm excursion and 700 mm dipole distance . One 12 inch subwoofer with 18 mm Xmax will do that too . Big difference !
@@gerritgovaerts8443 Those calculations don't really transfer over so well when you go to servo control, and drivers that will play flat to 20Hz in open baffle and not have overshoot or loose control.
Spy that orion
CZcams Commercials are killing this channel.
Danny, tell us again how you can hear the difference which your binding posts make to the sound, lolol. That was a good one!
What are your credentials, speaker design expertise and experience that gives you the right to mock someone who actually does it? I don't understand how tubes vs binding posts (or csbles) can make a difference but not knowing is not an arguement and neither is "lolol". Sure, be skeptical but not closed minded.
That one is easy for everyone to hear.
He is talking about setup in shows…. This is no video about open baffle!
Joe Elliot’s smarter brother…
I feel like I'm listening to a flat earth theory. Open mind.. open mind......
They should do a better job in placing them if the show is meant for selling,if they sound bad no one is buying!
I'm curious why Mr. Richie is deleting comments from his videos. I suspect he's not comfortable answering questions that poke large holes in his methodology and highlight his misunderstanding of "open baffle" design basics.
Questions are fine. No misunderstanding here. I don't delete the posts form the nay sayers, just those from known trouble makers.
Oh yes his misunderstanding.
@@dannyrichie9743 the one challenge I see with OB speakers is now close they can kept to boundaries especially the wall behind them. In most homes, where the listening room is also the living room and sometimes a bedroom, there is no option to have speakers 2-3m out from the rear wall. This is especially true of smaller homes and apartments.
Is there a solution to this? Would DSP help? Are there OB speakers that are affordable (say under $3000) that are compatible with small rooms?
@@navinadv Side walls are not an issue, or no more than any other speakers. They do have to be pulled three feet or more out into the room. There is no getting around that. Treating the front wall helps a lot. DSP will not.
@@dannyrichie9743 3 feet is enough? I always assumed it was 6 ft. The 15” Hawthorne Trio (Auggie based) system needed more than 3 ft if I remember right.
Classic Mid life crisis
holy cow
Open baffles are for those who doesn`t know how to build cabinets
And for those who appreciate good sound.
Open Baffle speakers are for those who thinks outside of the Box, who knows no boundaries and who value real reproduction of music. Bass and Treble is only a hint of the audio perception. Why limit ones self!!!
Open baffle and passive crossovers is like using steam power in a car. Bad designs full stop. No getting round that. You accept a flawed design then try and correct or improve it. That’s backward thinking. Only in the USA I guess!
Actually the best sounding speakers all use passive filters. Electronic or all digital solutions still have a LOT of issues and introduce more problems. And they can often be the bottleneck of the system.
@@dannyrichie9743 But all big PA systems are active. Why?
While I usually enjoy your videos, to me, this was a bust. I expected to see and hear how you came up with your open baffle design showing both front and back of the baffle, crossovers and the speakers you chose. This video described none of that. Disappointment.....
It is part of a series. He covers all of that in the other videos.