CLEMENT TIME 12: Is it CURTAINS for Clement the Citroen DS? It could be...
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- čas přidán 14. 10. 2024
- Not a video I ever thought I'd make, or one I ever wanted to make, yet here we are. Is Clement beyond saving?
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I'm gutted for you mate. I was actually getting genuinely angry at seeing the level of bodgery in Clement , whoever did that work is a disgrace. I'm not sure I can find the words to express my contempt for someone who puts out 'work' like that.
I'd say solider on but at this point you really have to make some difficult decisions.
I think what I'd suggest is you just let it sit for a while. And come back to it with a fresher mind. Let the emotional aspect of it simmer down, and then making the correct decision will be easier.
Sensible words.
Your decision, in a way am I was going to be sad if you scrap it. No not after seeing all that rot and bodged repairs
totally agree , however im afraid that this isnt uncommon, lot of higghly unscrupulous people about doing repairs and im afraid its all got hyped up by the ridiculous increases of the so called worth of older cars
oh bumsie...having been through this with the sills made of expanding foam in my Crown Vic, you have my total sympathy with this bodgery
Really gutted for you mate, know how hard it can be when you're emotionally torn on a project. Can't believe someone billed 25k for that shoddy work. Honestly... Thinking with your head, it's probably going to be best to break it and cash out now and just get stuck in on the SM. That's your dream car, go for gold on that - Leane
When we were younger we would pour 100s of hours into a car without worrying about it's value. Just building the car for the love of the build and for the love of the car. These days it's a little different now we're "grown up" and there is a bigger picture. Sometimes cutting loose can just be a great release of stress and project anxiety. As someone who also has too many projects on the go, one less seems like a win. To sum up, the young man in me says just do it, finish the build.... But we're no longer young men! Does that help? 😅 - Lewis
I'm "grown up" (so I'm told) and still suffer with the excitement. I have a crumbling Citroen on the Driveway to prove this. How do you get out of the Loop?
No Lewis, it doesn't bloody help! You sound just like me! haha!
With skills like yours, any car is recoverable but it comes down to the amount of time that you can actually spare. I think that you are probably maxed out currently. That said, the passing of any DS is a tragedy. 😢
I am maxxed out, yes. That's the issue. I was before I took Clement on.
Given that Clement was a dry run and you’ve learned from it, trying to break even on parts and starting on the SM would be my choice if I were you. Good luck whatever you decide!
I have learned on it, for sure. It has served much of its purpose already, I just didn't get to enjoy it.
Ah man I feel so sad now, and I wasn't even over VEPs departure yet!
But thanks for the video Rich! The finger to the haters is gold!
Thanks
As upsetting as it is for you to break Clement, I think it's the right thing to do financially but also for your mental health, the size of the project is already weighing heavily upon you and i think you know it's only going to get worse once you start looking at all of the previous repairs.
Cut your losses and move onto something you can enjoy working on.
I'd be here for a series of videos where Rich strips down Clements refurbs parts and saves other cars with them
You read my mind pretty well.
@@UPnDOWNRealistically it has been deluded sentimentality that has kept this old heap going far longer than made any sense… the money time and effort put into Clement have gone, so time to ditch it ASAP and move on.
Best idea is to set up a camera and time-lapse a start-to-finish session of stripping it for usable parts and then angle grinding the rest into bite sized pieces of scrap.
Then you can do the other DS and SM with a clear head.
Genuinely gutted for your Kitch 😔 I think what this is ultimately going to boil down to is where your passion and heart lies. As sad as the state of Clement is the standard of those repairs is a genuine cause for concern, and as you rightly point out potentially makes the base of the car structurally unviable (alarming if it's what was part of the original £25k bill). If it's now become an emotional and financial burden that's getting in the way of you pursing the repairs on the SM then I'd say it's time to let this one go. Whilst it's horrible fate at least then the good components of Clement can go on to help other surviving DS's keep on the road, and hopefully allow you to re-coup some of your losses. At the end of the day mate you didn't kill this car, it was the bodge merchants who had their hands on it before you. ❤
I agree with this! On a side note; How is VEP? :)
I've scrapped/parted out a couple of projects, it hurts, but at least the parts went to keep a lot of other cars going. Forget the money spent, think about your time in the future. Best wishes.
Dear Reader,
Mr. UPnDown doesn't just repair cars, or even bring them to a higher level of performance, he seems to genuinely feels a responsibility for their well being.
I admire this attitude, in a time were management-thinking only compares the costs of a repair to the cost of dumping a car, without considering the historical value or the attachment, people with a soul can feel for classic cars.
So, of course Mr. UPnDown is down after selling his mark 1 Citroën BX; although the new owner seems to love the red beauty.
So the only question I can formulate, from the other side of the channel is: is this the right moment to try to formulate an argument about Clement, when perhaps the departure of the BX plays it's gloomy role underneath?
Just a thought.
Michel F. van den Brun
Pedestrian, waiting for a really cold winter to walk the North Sea, and visit your realm.
Post scriptum: when Clement is so far gone, it can perhaps be rebuild as a left driving car, because on the mainland there is a large market for DS'es, and the prices are quit high. 20.000 pound? Perhaps there is a student of a local technical school who want to learn to inspect all of Clement, and purge the car of the bad repairs, whilst Mr. UPnDOWN starts on the SM?
VEP's not THAT much of an emotional drain as I do have another BX (which has a much deeper emotional attachment). But I take your comments and chuckle as I normally do!
I feel for you Rich.
Were it my decision to make I would sell Clement as is or break for parts. I would then focus on the SM. It is a much rarer car and more worthy of preservation. And it will make you a much happier person pursuing your ultimate goal.
Financially, as you've pointed out, time and money spent on the SM will benefit you ultimately. And right now it will benefit your outlook on life.
The channel will gain too. There can't be many SM projects being presented on CZcams.
Whatever you choose to do don't prevaricate. That is the worst of all options.
Take care of yourself and take pride in what you have achieved for Sophie. Well done!
Thanks!
I would start with a proper inspection of any rust situation around the mounting points for the rear trailing arm bearings and around the rear cylinders. If it´s in good shape there, you (or someone else) should save it. If it´s bad in those places... Then IDK mate. How ever you decide, you have my full respect. Let the decision take it´s time. Any DS is worth saving, but your sanity is worth more. My thoughts comes from restoring a DS23 Familiale. I did a MAJOR rust repair of the left side a couple of years ago and hasn´t touched my welder since. It was a bit too much for me. So I let it sit. When I´m ready to finish it, it will still be there. I sold that car once many years ago. I´m so glad I was able to buy it back. That´s also a thing to think about. In my almost 30 years wih DS´s, my worst time has been when I didn´t own a DS. Now, I have to stop myself before it becomes a complete wall of text. I´ll keep my fingers crossed for you mate. I probably said both to keep it and get rid of it. I guess you won´t get any real logic from me when it comes to DS´s. Too much feelings...
Great advice Michael - although 30 years with DSs might have taken it's toll on your sanity, I think you've made some great points that look like useful advice 👍
keep it, no matter how bad she is. At least you know you have one.
I hate to say this, but it's a bridge too far Rich, Clement needs to be layed to rest. If you carry on now, I think you'd learn to hate it and that's no fun at all. 🙁
I fully admire your honesty and transparency. Man economics are painful when we experience that moment of financial/emotional clarity. I have shared every step of Clements journey with you and you have answered your own question. Time to move on and we will move with you onto the next project 👍👍👍
I can definitely see why you've had enough of this project!
I think if it were me rather than throw in the towel I'd lower my standards and finish the project to what suited my time and budget. I would not go back and undo the questionable repairs already undertaken by others. I'd kill any live rust, patch what I can patch (especially the structural bits like those sills). Then use and enjoy for what it is (not a concourse example - but perhaps a fun daily hack) or sell on for £5k-£7k.
When I saw the notification, I thought you were mad to give up on it! But after watching the video, I think you made a comprehensive analysis of the situation, and a sensible decision. The continued discovery of awful welding putting all the previous repair work into doubt is disappointing, but it is what it is. Plus you're getting good experience with a less shambolic D... Super either way. Definitely has put the condition of the SM into perspective.
As retired, Mobile mechanic time, construes, and being one man is a problem specially when you throw a family in the mix personally, I don’t know where you find the time, but with all that said I think like other people have said walking away if you’ve got the room and put it on the back burner for the time and then going back to it would be the best choice for me as I said for me not for you watching a Channel for a long time now never commented before but I like the quality of your work it’s hard to come by these days looking at decisions you’ve made in the past I think go with your gut stay safe. Look forward to the next one
Oh man, I have recently been in a similar situation with my beloved 156. I could've pumped more and more money into her but there was no point. I had to say stop. The last goodbye was horrible but I truly believe it was a good decision.
If I were you, I would have Clement stored somewhere and have him wait for better times, but well - it's not a cost-free option really :( and the thought will be at the back of your mind constantly
I love the 156, I'm tempted to get another.
@@UPnDOWN that's what I did too... 😬 9 years with a 2.0 TS, I didn't want any different engine than TS - it's way too much fun! But... A friend gave me keys to his Busso and I was lost forever. TSes are great but I can't afford to have 3 cars so I found a lovely 156 V6 🥰 now I am waiting for a slot in my trusty workshop who deals only with Italian cars
I lost my 75 busso during a period of poor MH and unemployment worries really miss it.I hope you manage to find something to fit the gap.@@2008tourer
Thank You for sharing your considerations with us. A shame, the secrets Clement was keeping.
A shame.... But so important to know where to stop! I know how hard such a decision is..
I also know how it feels to be excited and ignoring the reality... which is sometimes fun! sometimes not...
When buying a hooptie most important is to find the honest car. What does it mean? It means that car do not hide issues it has. When there is a rust hole... it just is. When something is broken is not fixed "temporary" to make impression the issue is small. It's hard to find one this days because all that little lies transfer to bigger profit to seller. I think Clement had a nice ending. Not every junk car could be a youtube star, studio for charity live stream that brings 5 times profit of its worth and learn classic citroen enthusiast how to weld DS roof. Part it out and still you will profit becuase many working parts are desirable. Don't worry Rich, I think we are waiting for some video about you working on SM :)
We have all been in this situation many times so don't beat yourself up about it!
Adding one more project to your precious spare time just doesn't work no matter how much you want it to (I have tried and failed quite a few times)
Just pass it on to someone else and the pain will go and concentrate on the car you really want! CITROEN SM!
Once a bodger has had a go at a car then recovery is usually uneconomic and impractical unless the car has a very high value. You are being realistic about what a Super D5 is worth. They should be worth more because they are the best balance of performance against complexity. I have been caught in the past with bodged GSAs. Sad but I would recommend breaking the DS for parts. I still miss my beautiful Mk 1 CX Gti that ended up at the breakers and a near perfect GSA Special Edition that was totalled in a high speed crash but was so well designed it saved my passenger and my life when a white van went out of control and hit us head on with an 80 mph impact.
My opinion only, but I think you’re right Rich. This is becoming an example of the law of diminishing returns. If this were your only project, and you dipped and stripped the shell (which at a guess would come back weighing a lot less), but running a business, having family time and a significant number of other projects that would not need as much intervention as Clement. Sad days, always sad to see a classic laid to rest, but sometimes it is what it is, reality must intervene at some point. Take care.
Suspect there are 3, possibly 4 courses of action at the moment.
1. Sell as is. Someone else can either complete the work or break it.
2. Break for bits. Financially should break even.
3. Invest in a full restoration, including bodywork. Which would require further stripping down.
4 maybe. Just fix the c-pillar issues and be done with it.
Strikes me that 4 isn't really an option. So you could combine 2 and 3.. strip it further and find out how much more work is needed. At that point you can either sell all the parts, or continue with the resto.
Depends mainly on the time you have to do further stripdown work.
I feel your pain. It's a DS - they're beautiful in so many ways, and for many a dream car.
This one is a dog, though. Such a dog that I'd be tempted to rename to Gromit or Lassie. You've put so many hours in, so it's hard to say no.
I cannot be smug or 'I told you so,' and take my hat off to you for tackling such a project. Your AC/DC shirt makes me think of the track 'Big Balls' for some reason.
You can never have too many Citroëns- could you get another and use Clement as a parts car?
Yes, though given the state of Clement, another relevant track might be "Highway to Hell."
I think I'd actually go for something totally different if I were to replace Clement, away from the Citroens (unless it was A-series based). But it wouldn't be a project, it'd need to be a driver.
From my experience, those long boxes running down both sides are not very thick at all. I believe 20 gauge if i remember correctly. Surprisingly though, my DS propped on jack stands behind each wheel, had no chassis sag. My chassis had massive holes through the side boxes, and lacked a complete rear area
SOLDIER ON!! Clement must ride again!!!!
I'd love for that to be the case, but I don't know if I can.
Don`t lose sleep over it, but if you have the room, keep it. Its a good feeling to have one.
Your wit in the aftermath of such a discovery is impressive. I've imagined myself driving a nice DS one day and in that image, I'm feeling financially disappointed but relatively content.
You laugh or you cry!
I don't blame you for falling in love with the DS. They are such an awesome car. Makes me wish I'd lived a couple of decades earlier and bought one a couple of years old and looked after it until now.
I do feel your pain having owned two Ds back in the day and having seen better ones sent to the scrapper. I'd mentioned this before but I still think the only way to fix this D would have been be to get another shell and cut it up to graft in rust-free sections which is what Pete C does with cortinas. There must be a few rust free shells around southern europe and aftrica. Pete C imported a cortina shell from Portugal cut into sections. What would I do? Get another shell or give up.
I started subscribing to your channel because of Clement as I’m restoring a DS myself so I’m sad to see it may be ending, but I can understand your dilemma. Its’s a tall order that’s for sure..
Appreciate the sub.
Citroen was never known for being rust resistant up here in the north. And the advanced mechanical built made it very complicated. A friend of mine had an GS which needed new tubing for the brakes, and it was near impossible to change if not in a Citroen shop probably with some special tools.
Time is the most precious commodity of all. It’s so easy to take on too much. You have a business, a family, and multiple projects. You can’t do everything and it’s fine to admit that you need to prioritise and re-focus.
It must live! You have put so much work into it to give up.
That would be a never ending rabbithole of disappointment and expense. Its best parted out.
I have no clue about DSs, im still wrapping my head around BXs! But seeing this and knowing my own pernickety nature, I'd be considering an acid dip. It's an all or nothing project seeing this level of bodgery.
You either dip it and work with the results or you throw in the towel.
I know you won't be happy unless you have been through it with a tooth pick, checking everything.
You have no idea otherwise what bodges are potentially hidden, and you'd beat yourself up if a missed bodge killed someone.
I really feel for you, Richard. It bloody sucks and I'm sorry to see this result to all of your hard graft up to this point
My grandfather tought me. Everything is fixable, you might just have to think about how in a long time. But i feel with you. Ive been in the same situation with a Volvo Amazon a few years ago.. It got binned due to lack of time.
Shame, beautiful cars.
Never accept physical goods in exchange for your work.
"Sorry mate, I can't afford to pay you but I have some rubbish you might be interested in!"
I've told more than a few numpties in my time to sling their hook with such offers.
It was my idea really, I can't complain.
Heartbreaking stuff. Have you considered selling Clement Curtains?
Ian, I think you need to get a 4 post lift in your barn to make space for a Clement rotisserie - Carly is itching to get some proper welding practice, we can tell!
😂 :-P
Curtains made of Clement?
Having seen your post on CZcams and the CCC and Auto Shennigans Post, i think you have made the right decision to sell up or if it does not sell to break it for parts. Time to take stock, refresh, focus on the business and family, come back to the SM when you want to and take it from there.
Its been a enjoyable series with Clement and i think we have all shared your pain with the bodges.
I'm absolutely gutted. But again, you must do what you must.
Now I'm just throwing suggestions around, but a smaller BX project of sorts may be welcomed. Seen as without Clement there will only really be the SM (which is quite a big project) and the Tractiva in the realm of hydropneumatic Citroëns. (yes, Professor Tomato is there, but he doesn't belong to you).
Anyway, rambling aside, I really enjoyed the finger to the haters. Probably my favourite UpnDown scene hah.
I feel your pain Rich. The sinking feeling of realisation of the enormity of the task ahead of you. I cannot add much more to what has already been said in other comments. By letting it go it will allow you to chalk it up to experience and put it behind you. Hopefully the sale of parts and revenue generated from the CZcams Content will allow you to break even or thereabouts. Remember that your health and time with your young family is always more important than a car, whatever it is.
I think it’s a real wake-up call to us all considering classic car purchases. All like-minded CZcamsrs seem to be having similar issues at the moment: Mr Furious with the Crown Victoria along with several other cars on his fleet, Miss Hubnut with the Daihatsu, Steph from I Drive a Classic with the Marina and so on… We have to go into this with our eyes open and expect similar pain at some point along the way. You have taken one for the team here and I admire your honesty. Keep up the good work.
Seems a wise, realistic decision. Very interesting to see the process of discovery/investigation though how you arrived at this point! As ever hindsight.
damn. my suggestion would be to clean up all the sealant and carpet to actually see what you are looking at and then decide what you do. you could also simply pause the project, but that is tricky. once you can see what you are up against and you decide to sell, the buyer can see as well.
Clement is a survivor. he's been kept going on a shoestring for a long time. Many people have intervened on many occasions some good some not so good. I had a series 1 landrover like that it was a lot more charming than the fully restored examples. Anyone can just replace everything and create a facsimile of what a new car would look like at great expense, its much harder to just keep it going on the cheap. Look at the skills of the Cubans keeping 1950s yanks going. Please keep him alive to show that there is a way to keep cars going other than cheque book restoration.
This one thinks that the time has come to let someone else to make some use of excellent spares, and/or to proceed with the project.
There's too much on the go for thee, Rich, and as always, family time comes first.
Love to know who did all that amazing resto work for £25k.
It would only have cost 10k, but the 'restorer' had to keep driving to more and more distant Halfords as they kept running out of filler! 😂
I doubt they paid more than 2.5k 😅
It wouldn't make sense to spend that much on welding and then sell the car for 2k 🤷
Richard, I now own two of these rust buckets and the only way I see of getting mine done in a cost effective way and come out the other side with sanity is to go full out shell restoration (acid dip and e-coat). My rationalle is if it is a 'good one' it is a more worthwhile proposition, ie it costs alot to get there but should you sell, there are no massive financial losses. Kind regards and good luck.
I'm not a fan of acid dipping, personally, but I do agree it's 'all or nothing' when it comes to the frame.
It's a tough one and it's strange that I've had a similar conversation with myself today. I have too many projects which are taking up too much space and would need too much time to finish. One has to prioritise and my priority is Foxanne and the EV conversion.
I have a big old Vauxhall Viscount sitting on my drive, under a cover. Again, it drives and stops and seems structurally sound but needs loads and I don't have a workshop. I could build a car port (and must, to work on Foxanne) but there's a ruddy great Mk1 Renault Master camper in the way. Also runs, also needs loads but.... yeah....priorities...🙄
...and let's not even get in to the parts I've bought for both those vehicles.
Mission creep is easily done.
This is one of those cars the only way it could stay on the road would be to weld in ugly patches that are functional and not worry about doing it ‘correctly’, just make it strong in the right areas and put it on the road and use it, and the parts worth money will still be worth money when it eventually goes too far, but obviously this route will still drain your time which you seemingly don’t have like most of us, it’s a shame because it’s now such a well known YT car and to have it on the road useable would be great to see at shows (with the bodywork looking similar just solid)
That’s so sad, but you know what’s best.
Your message to the know it alls and haters was spot on. That said, I would put a cover on Clement and move on to another car and maybe come back to it later when cooler heads prevail.
Sadly I don't think that's an option. Clement's days are offically over.
Kitch,
I know its nothing like the scale of what you have on your hands but restoring a 2cv was a massive climb for me esspecially as I cant weld I tried but welded the metal blocks to the workbench apparently my welds were good according to the instructor but he wasnt to happy that he had to grind the metal blocks from his workbench. welding the 1.6mm floor panels in the 2cv floor was way beyond that and thats why it went to Barry Annels citroen independants for it to be welded. I couldnt afford a respray so I coach painted the floor with a very fine brush and red Hammerite which matched the red 2cv paint perfectly and gave a high gloss shine.
The other issue is where does the restoration stop, ulless its concourse condition they are money pits and if you let them they will bankrupt you in all but emotion which is what punishes you because you always decide to keep it going because youve come so far in the restoration.
Your skills are amazing, that jig you built for the roof and windscreen frame is way beyond the capeabilities of many people out there but at least you applied your brain and tried and thats something to be very proud of.
I had to let my 1987 2cv go it wasnt a project anymore and MOTs were a pain every year as the engine had to be partially stripped to get to the front inboard brakes to adjust them before an MOT. ill health got in the way and life got in the way as did work comitments and the 2cv only saw the road when my C5 broke down or needed some work, I wasnt really enjoying her anymore. we buy any car offered me 50 quid for her then I sold her a month later for 4k much less than Id spent on her. I miss her every day but missing her isnt a good enough reason to hold onto the responsibility if its going to stress you out and ruin your life. You have a SM there Id put my time and effort into that if I were completely honest about it and its a much rarer car than the DS.
I feel for you. I think we've had parallel existence. I got my D Super at the same time you got Clement (and how I found your channel), you've got an S-Max and family, I've got a Galaxy and family etc. (okay, stretching a point) but there by the grace of God and all that as mine could have been another Clement. It wasn't as cheap and it did look much better, but as you know looking better means nothing on a DS. Thus far it has stayed a running and driving car, as much by luck as judgement (I also didn't make the mistake of naming it!). I think Clement has served its purpose though - it has been a dry run for the SM. You'll make a profit selling it for parts that you can spend on the SM, Hilda, beer... If I had the money and buy the rack and gearbox off you right now.
It's a difficult call when you get attached to a car and have already put time, money, and effort into a project. I carried on when a project got expensive and took a long time at a specialist. I had the completed car for a couple of years, but I always knew it was not worth what it cost and unfortunately I had to sell it in the end for a fraction of the cost. Take some time and think what you'd regret more in the future, time/expense on Clement or not having it completed/what you could have done with it.
It’s a real shame that you’ve got to this point. Fixing other people’s bad (indeed terrible) work is very frustrating. I’m sure most of us would love to see you persevere, but you have to look after your head. I can see there’s an awful lot of hours in getting Clement back into shape. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Does seem as though the level of work is going to make moving on a sensible option - however, since the decapotable DS is worth so much, and the issues are around your roof, how about adding some non-original, but strong bracing to make a DIY open-top Clement? Would save needing to buy a lot of the upper panelwork - and allow the car to live again!
I personally would get some enthusiast or two who follow your channel to come into the workshop and have them completely strip Clement down to the frame, then use the revenue raised from filming this to have the remainder dipped. This would show the extent of the rot and bodges without costing you either time or money.From there it would be a case of assess to see if repairs are viable, if not already stripped easier to sell parts on
I'm old (ish, 53), knackered (fibromyalgia), have limited time and live at the London end of Hampshire, but I'd be up for volunteering for a couple of Saturdays if you think this idea has merit. I can even bring my own tools.
Okay, a bit food for thought... there are still a lot of DS's around, but it is getting rare and rare by the year. Consequently prices will go up! So...
If you have the room or a space to store Clement that would be the thing to do. Now it is not worth it, but come let's say, 10 years from now it will be! In the mean time you can do your other projects, round up the parts you need, Ebay, France UK, make some good deals, and finish it off when the time comes... I hate to see it broken apart, and if you don't mind me saying, so do you?!
Godspeed with your projects, subscribed, rang the 🔔
It is a gut-wrenching decision to make. I know from personal experience and it is a very hard decision. The only thing is you can know concentrate on th SM. I think you have made the right decision. Onwards and upwards.
I think we have all been there. You see a car you really want and your heart shuts down your head. I feel for you, who doesn't want a DS? Maybe you should just put all the effort into the SM? I'm with you on whichever way you go.
Hard call, I would say carry on but understand the economics. A daunting project.
I've really enjoyed the Clement content, it'll be a shame to see her go, but given the unknown condition of what bodgery is under all that grey paint, it's completely understandable that the amount of time any money needed to complete this would be enormous, you simply don't have the time to do this and run a business and be with your family.
Unfortunately the sums simply don't add up to make this a worthwhile project.
It's been great content, and has been a good learning platform to prepare you for working on your dream car.
Her parts will go on to keep other DS's on the road, so that can only be a good thing.
Time to move on to more worthwhile projects.
It would be sad if you did not keep it, but quite understandable. As myself being a owner of too many Citroëns, without your space and resources, I can absolutely relate to the time and cost aspect of keeping them all running, let alone doing a bigger restoration. But hopefully someone will buy it as a whole car so it can come back on the road one day.
Chin up mate, great aspirations but knowing when to draw the line will keep you sane.
A traditional business decision would be to cut your losses, but with CZcams, and content creation there's the potential to not only restore the car but also make it financially viable
It seems "hopeless" restoration projects (not just cars) done right can be fairly popular YT content. Seeing people "eating an elephant", can be addictive and exciting. People love following the progress and see the ingenuity often needed.
No need for explanation, no need to beat yourself up. You are not our performing monkey. Do as you see right, you're a good bloke.
This makes me sad. I feel your pain. 😥
But I think you are right. Time is up for Clement. Break it for parts and get some of your money back. At least the parts will get other cars on the road.
And now on to the SM 🌹
I admire your approach to the comments section. Law of averages you’ll always get keyboard warriors, they also don’t know your situation away from screen, work, life etc. Think you are doing the right thing with Clement.
I think, even as a someone with little mechanical experience, nor even as subscriber before today, the way you are speaking about it you already know the decision is to get rid. Doesn't make it less sad.
I was waiting for the big BUT........... and it never came. An emotional couple of weeks for you but I think the Clement decision could already have been made and once he has been passed onto pastures new then some of the pressure will be off and you will be able to concentrate more on the day job - which I find just as interesting as the projects. As you said the time spent on Clement could, in hindsight, have been better spent elsewhere so, take a deep, deep breath, step back a little and maybe do a few jobs on the SM - not too drastic but enough to keep us all entertained and wanting more.
You could postpone and put Clement into storage until time and funds are available gradually collecting the parts and panels needed and approach him with renewed enthusiasm. Either way I sincerely hope it all works out for the best and some of the stress will be taken of your shoulders.
For me the DS is up there near the top of my list of best cars of all time, ever since I was a kid on holiday in France seeing them on their natural habitat .. I've loved seeing Clement on your channel, but I think you should cut your loses and put your time and energy into making progress on your other cars .. things become hard work when the job or car list keeps growing, if you can complete a car and then move onto the next you'll feel like you're moving in the right direction .. If everything under that grey paint is as bad as what you've uncovered so far it will be a very long and expensive road just to get back to where started .. For once I think you need to put on a sensible hat, and wear it with pride :)
Sorry to see this. Even if you spend the time on Clement it looks like you’ve got the ick. You could always push it into the SM’s spot and get going on that instead. Maybe once the SM is done (no rush) you’ll feel different about Clement.
Put Clement on the back-burner and give us some merch to buy the bits you need..
Idealy sell it (rather than breaking it) and your effort into the SM. Good luck!
Rich I am so sorry to hear about Clement and those repairs are truly awful I appreciate how you must be feeling and it is probably best that you walk away from it and try and cut your losses maybe clements parts can help other DS stay on the road
I saw a DS at Citroen Classics, which had a new rear end from the C post. It cost £25000. It was immaculate, but the cost....it's about the same as my DS21 semi auto, from 1968, which is as it came out of the factory. So, my view is break it for parts. There are a lot of DS's out there!
It's a tough decision but I think that bailing out now and selling/ breaking Clement is the best option.
Restoring the SM is being done through the passion to own it, the D Super is through necessity. Unpicking all of Clements bodged underpinnings is time you could put into your other vehicles. Best bail out now for your personal sanity.
😭 Poor Clement! I think he might be too far gone. Such a shame but it might be more sensible to look for a better one in the long run. You could still preserve Clement's memory with a t-shirt. Might help you recover some of your financial loss too.
I've been there, unfortunately, on more than one occasion. You're absolutely right, it's a gut decision. Any 50 year old car is going to have 'scars' , but reversing other people's 'mistakes' is a thankless task. Money comes and goes but your time is finite - invest it only in what's important to you.
Wise words.
As hard as it is, probably best to just put it up to experience and let it go. It will be a huge weight off your shoulders and will give you renewed energy and enthusiasm for the other projects. Tough decision know but I think it’s the right one. Chin up!
How quickly these seemed to disappear off the roads. My Dad nearly bought a Malaga from a local Car dealer, but opted for a Nissan Sunny. Another great review.
Have you just watched Hubnut’s Ibiza review and accidentally commented on the Clement video instead?
Hahaha!
Cut your losses mate you have to much on the go and crack on with the SM and don't forget your family time!!
I would call it quits, concentrate on the SM a much more worthwhile project, Clement is just one car two many. Get Hilda sorted and enjoy some track time. Don't forget you need time with the family as well, all work etc.....
I'm definitely not taking Hilda to a track again! Tracks+Hilda = pain
speaking as a fellow restorer this is indeed very sad and im afraid not uncommon.would strongly suggest that you take a step back and put this project to one side for a while.
If we all went by the naysayers we'd never try
Can't blame you for having a dream, DSs are wonderful motors but sometimes you have to bite le bullet. Good luck with the ZM.
Yeah, so this sound like it's ended up being a rabid dog with fleas, but before you go ahead and part it out, do sample checks of areas where there is sealant and lots of grey paint just to confirm that the body really is totally borked. If you see the same kind of problems in those random areas, then you know it's done and it's time to move onto another project.
That was a long goodbye. Sometimes the wise move is just to walk away.
I am facing something similar, but with my second car that I have owned since 1993. Sadly, the roof skin is gone on my 1985 Cutlass Supreme and it has a lot of little rust pockets in odd places. I have come to the place where I know I don't have it in me to change a roof and that it would be too expensive to pay someone else. Yet, it is hard to part with it and it's attendant memories. I will probably strip it of all the good stuff and build another GM product but it is hard to do.
That is a tough pill to swallow. I guess the next step would be to remove any filler in other key areas, just to be sure that it is game over.
Don't feel bad that you got hoodwinked by carefully sculptured filler, I mean look at what furious driving found on his crown vic.
I guess if there is anything to learn from this, it is that taking a car in part exchange for working on another, makes things very complicated.
Take stock, move on and work on a car that gives you more pleasure whilst taking up less of your time .
P.S. I'm just a keyboard warrior who has never welded a car in his life. I do try to keep my daily driver Morris Minor on the road though and as a dad myself, I find it hard to get the hobby/family life balance right.
1:45 nice
Probably, and unfortunately the worst bodge I've seen since walking into a cut'n'shut shed at a scrap yard in the 1980s. 😮
Time....to walk away, the sensible thing to do!
Best call it a day on Clement I’d say!
Looking at the history the car was registered as 7CPL from 1984-2000. I reckon most of the handywork is the result of someone bodging the car up in order to get an MoT to transfer the valuable plate off.
Interesting, I didn't know that about the reg. MoT exempt car though, so wouldn't have been difficult to take the plate off. That rule changed a fair few years ago IIRC.
I have loved watching your time and effort on Clement, but it seems you have lost the love for the project. That may be just today, or it might be forever. Your honesty in the videos is fantastic and whatever you choose to do I'm sure will be the right decision for you.
I have three suggestions:
1. Can we, your loyal fans, help financially to get this running? How much would you need to make this worth your while?
2. Someone else mentioned this as a pass the restoration . . . Transport costs might be an issue but I like the idea.
3. Is there someone in the CCC community that would buy it off you as going restoration that would make financial sense to you?
Wishing you all the best in this and all your other projects.
I wouldn't say I've lost the love. The fact it's eating me up as much as it is suggests otherwise, but my head is starting to overrule things (which really, it needs to).
1. Very kind, but it'd be quite a costly exercise. I'm just not sure it'd be do-able.
2. Yeah it's an original idea, but I just don't think it's practical.
3. Possibly. All I'd want is to try and get my money back, really.
Thanks!
25% of the way in and I'm thinking "oh just strip it all the way down to the chassis and build from there".
75% of the way and I'm thinking [insert Good God meme here] "that is impossible with even a big budget." Absolutely speechless at that "work".
This is beyond the difficult decision stage now. Strip it, sell it. You don't need this sh*t. The SM will get the hits and ratings if/when you start working on it and people get invested. You'll feel better, there will be more space in the workshop, you'll have some cash and a bit more spare time for family/work/projects.
Sad to say but I think it's time to admit defeat and claw back your money, the fact that it has been bodged is what kills it. I always find correcting something that's been bodged take twice the time. The only and probably the quickest / easiest way to move clement forward is to strip it and either dip or shot blast the frame, so you can see what your dealing with. But if you do that then there is a good chance you will go out of business, because that would take so many hours it would have to be a labour of love. I saw a body shop go out of business because one of the partners got obsessed with curing the vibration on his 309 diesel (it was a few years back). The clutch / starter could be the flywheel coming loose, I say that because all the work that has been done appears to be making it look good so they can charge good money, and the people I have seen like that don't normally know what their doing. Personally I'd like to see the SM as I've always wanted one since seeing Micheal Caine drive one in a 70s film and I'd have to pull Hilder apart, because I want to know what happened and I think fitting an oil pump is the way to go.
This is what it is... sounds just like what a project is... you've uncovered the issues so knock off the jobs and proceed to the next.
It isn't the only project, though. That's the problem. It was never meant to be this in-depth.