Gloomhaven vs Oathsworn - Play This, Not That
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
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Oathsworn is a huge contender for being the number one game of all time...eventually. Rocking a 9.3 on BGG, with two hugely successful Kickstarter campaigns and a dungeon crawler experience with a ton of depth, character variety, card driven combat and much much more...and then there's Gloomhaven, the number 1 game of all time, with two hugely successful Kickstarter campaigns and a dungeon crawler experience with a ton of depth, character variety, card driven combat and much much more....so which one of these is right for you? Or perhaps both?
BGG Link - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...
TimeStamps:
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:00:35 - Our Experience With These Games
0:01:05 - Gloomhaven Overview
0:01:40 - Oathsworn Overview
0:03:10 - Why Compare These?
0:04:07 - Price
0:05:50 - Ease of Learning/Teach
0:11:00 - Art & Components
0:15:48 - Theme
0:20:00 - Mechanics
0:49:10 - Play This, Not That
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Shout out to Devon who took me and some friends through the demo of Oathsworn at Spiel. He totally lost his voice due to his hard work over there and still managed to sell the game to us. Thanks again!
Glad you enjoyed it 🙂 It was a lot of fun!
He's pretty convincing....I'm still not sure why he's here past him telling me it's a good idea.
@@DevonTalksTabletop Honestly didn't know you have a CZcams channel yourself, subscribed right away :)
@@matsie3134 thanks 😊
I've played the Gloomhaven campaign twice, Jaws of the Lion, and I'm making my way through Frosthaven. I've also played to chapter 13 of Oathsworn. Both Oathsworn and the -haven games are fantastic. You should play both of them if you can. If you have to pick one, this video is correct that Gloomhaven wins on mechanics and character customization while Oathsworn wins on story. Gloomhaven is more like an ever-changing puzzle you're trying to solve with your friends, while Oathsworn is a more RPG-type experience. But seriously - play both of them!
WOW. Really great vid!! Great chemistry and well thought out reasoning 🙂Thank you so much!!!
Glad you liked it! More on the way 🙌🏻
Oathsworn is the kind of game that I want someone else that I know to own so I can play it with them occasionally and it will take up room on their shelf and not mine. Gloomhaven is a game that I want to own and play with my friends as well as play solo and I’m willing to spend my own precious shelf space on.
I wonder if Frosthaven vs Oathsworn would be a better comparison now
Perhaps, but that would need a copy of Frosthaven and another 20-30 hours. One day :)
I don't know, given FH is supposedly a game for GH nuts and is more complex...
Think is worth more doing more comparisons btw Jaws of the Lion vs other GloomHaven games, just to create more fans.
JOTL has been the best intro to the series for me.
Frosthaven vs Oathsworn if you've already played through and loved Gloomhaven. My pick is Oathsworn, but will be interesting if that's the common consensus.
@@AdamJorgensen for FH, the combat side is just a bit harder, and the characters are individually a little more complex..
The non-combat side is FAR more complex and involved now, with a more cohesive story holding it together.
nearly finished jaws, having the big gloomhaven sitting on the shelf waiting, backed oathsworn (will be here in december 23) and getting the german version of frosthaven hopefully in october 23. so the next 3 years are fully planned out with these big games. and i do have some other little ones sitting here on the shelfs waiting jealously to be played. Many thanks for your entertaining comparison. You are a blast to watch (and still waiting to see alex passing out because he forgets to breath while talking) :)
He’s impressive 😉
I have only played Jaws of the Lion, and am on chapter 14 on Oathsworn. My preference is Oathsworn. What is great is they are both phenomenal games.
Yes :)
Looking forward to both (Frosthaven and Oathsworn) for now. Eager to see what the city development feels like. Thx for the video
Glad you enjoyed!
This video was exactly what I was hoping for! My best friend and I have spent hours playing GH, and we usually come away from it feeling that it was just ok. With little connection between the combat and an overall storyline, the repetition of bad guys (just harder to defeat), and the sometimes punishing nature of the campaign it left us wanted something… different. You’ve convinced me that Oathsworn may be just what we’re looking for. Thanks for the great comparison guys!
Happy to help give some clarification!
Love this format and the diverse opinions/experiences. Very engaging as a viewer
We’re planning to do more in this series!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Been playing Gloomhaven since original Kickstarter, in person for a year, then played online beta, and now the original 4 in person players moved to the digital version due to people moving/life.... Gloomhaven to me was all about the individual character development and synergy between classes. It was a puzzle to be solved. I went from Scoundrel to Elemantalist, and if you want a challenge play the Elemantalist.... Once I can find some friends I'll try the other game....
I've put over 200 hours into Gloomhaven and about 30 into Oathsworn. For me, right now, Oathsworn feels like the winner. Gloomhaven engrossed me in the early game, but mid and late game balance issues cheapened its puzzles for me. I'm still happy to play it, but my interest is largely social. We'll see how Oathsworn holds up with time, but the difficulty curve has felt better so far. I don't expect that I'll get over 200 hours out of it, but I do think I'll get more than 100--and I suspect that the closure that its narrative arc will provide for that 100 hours will leave me feeling overall more positive about it than the greater amount of time I spent with Gloomhaven.
I totally respect that :)
Honestly Jaws of the Lion is better than Gloomhaven. Gloomhaven is great if you want to go further but Jaws of the Lion is a very satisfying standalone story that is much easier to complete. Well worth giving a go even if you are part way through the original bigger game.
Professor Meg here cosplaying a strawberry. :)
Great critique y’all!
Long time fan of GloomHaven (physical & digital), psyched for Oathsworn Kickstarter.
For anyone getting into either, I def agree that Jaws of the Lion is the one to start.
It’s cheaper, beginner friendly (you feel capable/like heroes on mission 01, instead of feeling you need to farm coin/xp), beautiful illustrated maps (quick setup), not to mention the Forteller App also offers amazing VO.
The 20 something campaign has lasted over a year of game time, but after so much time spent on GloomHaven in general, I’m very excited to try the new Battle-flow mechanic from Oathsworn, and a heavier emphasis on storytelling after trying Trudvang Legends. Oathsworn seems to hit all the right marks after experiencing JOTL.
Yep :) all great games.
I like the idea of companions. We tried Sleeping Gods at 2-player.. half way through we just got overwhelmed with the upkeep on so many characters. We played through GH and after so many campaigns it felt repetitive. We used the app to help manage the enemies. The card play is fantastic. I’m excited to try OS as we backed the 2nd edition. The management of monster and character movement looks like it could be messy, but the story sounds worth it.
Is there a video of a comparison between Oathsworn and Tainted Grail? Both of these seem to have a lot more similarities between them, with each having a similar sized core box and expansions that add what looks like a similar amount of additional stuff.
Thank you for the excellent discussion! You are all very articulate and have good chemistry.
I’ve played GH, JotL, am currently playing Frosthaven, and have Oathsworn pledged for their second printing.
I agree that GH’s story could feel disconnected from the mechanics, which as you said are absolutely top notch, but I do think that’s something they improved upon in both Jaws and Frosthaven.
Frosthaven’s plots and stories especially feel much more engaging and I think part of that is the fact that the town very much feels like your own since you have to develop it with your own resources. The scenario flowchart I think is another thing that’s helped a lot - it’s much easier for us as a party to do a recollection of “where have we been and how did we get here” prior to starting a scenario, even if it’s a Questline we abandoned temporarily to do side quests.
I’d be curious how y’all think Frosthaven compares to Oathsworn, because I feel like it does everything GH does but better and with more stuff.
Very much looking forward to playing Oathsworn too! And I have a feeling I’ll like might decks. Hahaha
Great conversation with great guests !!
Meg is awesome 😉
Thank you!
I don't know if any game will ever beat out gloomhaven for me. It's the first heavy dungeon crawler that got me into the hobby and that warm, fuzzy nostalgia is irreplaceable.
Nostalgia is tricky tho. Sometimes you come back to something and discover it was better in your memories.
I'm pretty sure most GH fans have amnesia when it comes to the organisation of the box XD
@@AdamJorgensen 3d printer + Plano boxes + many bags mean it all stays well organized. That being said, I'm the only one who knows where everything is lol
love the video always look forward to the of you
Thank you!
Do i get the same experience with the standee version of oathsworn and the miniature version of it. i am still thinking of getting the game, but i am thinking of getting the cheapest version becouse of all the games comming out these days. but, am i going to miss out a lot of fun becouse of it?
You won’t miss out on anything! Standee has the full game experience minus the miniatures 🙂
You're not missing out on anything except bling. My personal recommendation is for everyone to get the standee version, and only those who are unwilling to listen should consider miniatures.
I got the all in OS on kick. I know it will be a yearish till I get it. Worth the wait.
devon: "im goning to save you the whole spheel" .... proceeds to give a huge explanation ;-) Love all the content from all of you!
Team Devon here! I agree 100% why Oathsworn beats Gloomhaven. And yeah I love Gloomhaven too.
Good to know :)
Our numbers grow every day 🐹
Love the El Dorado reference Devon!
They call us Miguel and Tulio!
I have to say that I disagree on the character variety. I think Devon made a good point about the Gloomhaven characters kinda growing into their roles, but those roles are soooo varied. In Oathsworn the Grove Maiden, Huntress, Witch are very unique. The Cur, Exile, Blade, Priest are fairly unique. The Warden, Penitent, Bear are almost the same character. In fact, without spoiling anything, at level 10 the Bear and Penitent unlock almost the exact same 2 cards, and as different as the Cur and Witch are they unlock a card at 10 that is very slightly different. I love both games, but character variety is hands down Gloomhaven IMO
Interesting, while I haven't unlocked everything, even just the penitent and the bear I felt were very different.
Superb trio,Superb video👍
Thanks ☺️
Thank you :)
I wondered about the comparison between Oathsworn and Kingdom Death Monster as boss battlers?
Sadly I haven't played kdm
Road to el Dorado! I enjoyed the disney movie 😂. We are going to play jaws of the lion next because of "Both is good" Oathsworn is awesome so need to see what we missed out on in gloomhaven. Thanks for the video 🙂
El Dorado! The Magnificent!
With, GH you seem to exit each character just as you master it ( assuming you reach your retirement goals) while in Oathsworn the story is more synchronized with character development with the option of re-experiencing the entire story line with different decisions using different characters. I haven't played JofL to know if it has this weird character transition retirement mechanism throughout the story line. I have only played Oathsworn 2 scenarios. GH a fair bit in earlier digital version(non full campaign) so far I prefer Oathsworn by far. So far it seems every oathsworn scenario is rich in story telling where the GH scenarios are often stand alone "random" encounters that are replayed optionally for exp and item gain. Oathsworn reminds me more of the richness Dragonlance brought to DnD while GH brought a lot of RPG mechanics into the board game table. Perhaps being spoiled by hearing the Dragonlance story being told directly by Tracy Hickman at Gen Con (Wisconsin LG and Milwaukee) has set an incredibly high bar of expectations. I like the hint in the review of whether it is the journey or the destination that matters the most and Meg is hinting they both matter. Clearly some minimum of decent mechanics is needed or you could just watch a movie or read a book. So the question might be whether there is too much distraction from the story with the mechanisms for either and I think this is where GH falls down and reminds me of AD&D before Dragonlance. While there still is an underlying storyline there seems to be so much to do to get to the end. I feel like Oathsworn promises to let me participate in the story but manage to get to the end in my lifetime. As many have pointed out, how many came even close to "finishing" GH before Frosthaven arrived?
Devon's concluding thoughts are my same thoughts about both of these games. Gloomhaven was my #1 game for a long time but Oathsworn dethroned it as an overall experience. Still looking forward to Frosthaven and can't wait ti play that, but Oathsworn is just an incredible experience overall. For those of you who have only played a few chapters of Oathsworn...buckle up it is a wild ride.
:) it's a solid game
Man, that Devon guy is cool
I think a huuuge point of Gloomhaven is that as a group you are only cooperating to a certain extent. The decisions about how opportunistic you can get by looting and getting experience instead of being actually helpful but still win the scenario is one of the most interesting.
After 60+ scenarios in GH, I couldn't finish the campaign because the mechanics, though excellent, became too repetitive to the point of tedium. Got my money's worth though. Tried JotL but could only get through 1/3 of it then we just fast forward to the last scenario. I find that with these longer campaign games, I need a great storyline hook to me and keep me going. Convinced my friend to back Oathsworn (as long as I would play with him), his first KS, so looking forward to trying it out.
I should probably listen to your entire video before commenting but I just haven't had time yet. Having completed up to Story 3 (not encounter 3) so far in Oathsworn I'm viewing this as a cross between Gloomhaven and Pandemic Legacy which considering their relative positions on BGG (1 and 3) this seems to be a very good place to be. I suspect that this combo may eventually vault it into either the 2 spot between them or allow it to cross above both. I would vote for it to leap over both but access to the game for the next 12 months at a reasonable cost will hold it back awhile. I think it will take 2-3 more years for us to see 60k folks vote on Oathsworn on BGG like they have for GH but maybe if all the folks who play it with a friend who owns it and then votes on BGG it stands a chance of getting a lot of votes earlier than the available supply might suggest. More votes doesn't mean a higher score but I assume that the actual rating is some sort of physics equation of game score times number of votes (force = mass times acceleration) such that the number of votes does factor heavily into your final BGG score. (Perhaps its only applicable to a point where you reach a vote volume threshold and after that its all about the score. Anyway Alex is likely way more appreciative of the nuances of BGG scoring than I am.
Yep, I completely agree with all of that.
Meg’s watermelon hoodie is 🔥
Yes it is :)
Both are very good games, I’ve spent hrs in both but after 15 play throughs of Gloomhaven I was bored (just more of the same, rinse and repeat) and I hated the cards as a timer system. 15 levels through Oathsworn and I’m still loving it, the story is light years ahead of Gloomhaven and the boss battle mechanic is just more fun to me. I sold Gloomhaven, I won’t be selling Oathsworn.
Ditto for me. I didn’t finish GH and sold it. On chapter 17 of OS and plan on finishing it. I like every aspect of OS more.
I amazed that set up time and 'amount of time on game admin' didnt come up. It doesnt matter how great a game is when it takes as long to set up as gloomhaven it often gets neglected for games that are faster to set up. And thats without comparing how things like health are tracked in both games. Maybe my time is more limited than others but its a huge deal.
I thought we did talk about that at points? I recall a conversation about inserts, set up time and accessibility.
@@BoardGameCo it was mentioned in passing, most i could find on it was the discussion of not wanting to get the tiles out for gloomhaven for the video, and there was a little on the tuck boxes which meg liked. Its possible I have missed it but to me my recommendation would be based on it, something like, 'if you can leave the game setup / spread out and have a steady group and dont mind playing boardgames with app assistants, then go gloomhaven, the puzzle is more fun. If not all of the above are true then oathsworn is a better fit.' Then maybe some caveats on how much theme and dice impact enjoyment but otherwise the main recommendation driver is around tabling the game. (the needle does shift for jaws of the lion though).
Fun fact about Gloomhaven - at the beginning I skipped the rules allowing you to loose cards to avoid injuries ^^" Well the game is still well balanced and you'll surely die with cards in you hand XD
Right on the point. Gloomhaven is superb on mechanics, and that alone carries it to the top. Mechanics and character building satisfy both Euro gamers and Ameritrash gamers alike. However, if one prefers a great adventure story, then maybe other games that feature this kind of experience would be more appealing. It's really a matter of preference.
Yep, gloomhaven is still king in so many ways. But Oathsworn provides a compelling argument.
thank you!
Absolutely:)
Wow Meg must cry during soap commercials if she found Jaws of the Lion sad. I never once felt attached to any of the Gloomhaven stories like Oathsworn
I’ve used some soaps that were so good they made me cry
it was happy tears, we were true heroes!! :)
Can you even purchase Oathsworn now if you missed the kickstarter? I am sure you can find copies being scalped for ridiculous prices, but I would rather buy at a retail price.
I believe they will have a late pledge
I can't understand how there's anxiety tied to the might decks. That's the only point mentioned in this video that has me completely baffled.
You really needed to put channel plug links in the description for your guests. I shouldn't have to work that hard to find their channels.
Here I am! Sub me like a hurricane!
I have Gloomhaven and Chronicles of Drunagor reprint. For me Gloomhaven felt more like a euro style points puzzle game but with an unbalanced random system card pull, if you cannot calculate risk you cannot plan to mitigate it. I had hoped to play socially but lockdown forced it to be solo, the first scenario no matter how I played, the enemy card pulls destroyed me and it felt meh, it was just a puzzle, spoilt by the enemy card spread, I was not feeling a narrative or story.
Contrast to Drunagor and bad luck feels like I made mistakes but I can recover, it has narrative, twists and challenge that doesn't just feel like a contrived flawed puzzle. You have to plan each round but remain flexible unlike Gloomhaven where no matter how you play, one bad play and your done. Even if you identify with a Gloomhaven character the empathy quickly evaporates.
There is much better card driven puzzle games abstract or thematic and suspect you guys haven't played them, to me cribbage , backgammon are as satisfying but I nuy games for absorption not puzzles, not that I don't like optimisation puzzles (I am an engineer that is the job) but for entertainment escapism and immersion is fundamental.
I felt let down by the hype of what Gloomhaven offered it is not RPG like , it has no real soul. CoD 4 chapters in is still on my table and is fun, challenging and compelling, maybe that would have been a fairer comparison..
I totally respect that while still loving both
@@BoardGameCo I was not critising your views or opinions, apart from them sharing the same genre , they don't, Gloomhaven is a puzzle optimisation card builder with a theme pasted on, it could have been fantasy, sci-fi, ancient battles, ww2 etc. Oathsworn has it's theme backed in, as does CoD and they do share a genre both in theme and narrative mechanics. Gloomhaven has more in common with Cerebria: The Inside World
The character progression in Gloomhaven is top notch, certainly better than Oathsworn, but I like Oathsworn better for pretty much everything else. I like Oathsworn's writing, story, and art better. There may be many more scenarios in Gloomhaven than Oathsworn, but it feels like the majority of them are go through a door, kill everything, go through another door, kill everything, go through another door, kill everything. The enemies don't do enough to distinguish themselves from each other, and the bosses I've faced in Gloomhaven aren't mechanically satisfying. Every boss I've faced so far in Oathsworn has distinguished itself from the others.
I don't like the implementation of loot actions in Gloomhaven, and I don't like the mechanics for summons. The way monsters activate is overly cumbersome, because you have to refer to their activation card, their stat card, and their attack card. This allows for mechanically simple scaling, but it's one too many places to look to figure out what the monster does. I found the way that Gloomhaven handled scenarios makes me much less interested in revisiting scenarios. I wouldn't mind going back and playing through Oathsworn scenarios multiple times with different parties, but I have no interest in doing that in Gloomhaven. I like the idea of Gloomhaven card management better than I like it in practice. There are cards that feel really satisfying to use and combo together, but too many of the actions on those cards are awkward or uninteresting. I also don't like the way resting works. It feels artificial, and it just feels bad a lot of the time. Oathsworn isn't the strongest contender in terms of interesting hand management, but it's not bad, and it makes up for that with the attack mechanics, amber management, positioning, determination rule, token management, and enemy mechanics. There is a lot to keep track of in Oathsworn, but keeping track of everything is fun. Gloomhaven has a lot to keep track of, and it's tedious to keep track of. I don't mind the battleflow system, but Mage Knight and BattleCON both have stronger hand management mechanics than either Oathsworn or Gloomhaven.
I think I need to try the Steam version of Gloomhaven and see if that changes my mind, but that's where I am right now. Steam should automate a bunch of the things I find annoying to manage in Gloomhaven, which could certainly help my opinion of it.
Both are fantastic but I don't disagree with where you are coming from.
The tension between the two dudes is palpable.
Thank you!
Oathsworn is our favorite game my friend group has ever played
Gloomhaven seems to have reached a sweet spot in board gaming. Not only is it a fun and unique Euro card puzzler with a solid DC skin with great artwork that seems to be a bit of a genre-bender, but it also came out right around the time the hobby was exploding. If I'm not mistaken, in 2020 alone the board game industry grew by about 20%. If it is indeed the first big box game that a lot of those folks are playing it will be hard to break through that kind of nostalgia alone with the fact that a lot of old gamers really like it too.
Ahhh, difficult! I think... play both! I do like Oathsworn better still, 11/10. But GH was a solid 10 too.
Agreed on playing both!
I still think Frosthaven gameplay is better for me. It has more cards for each characters so feel less samey. Frosthaven has so much more variation with all the status effects and now the town building. Oathsworn story part is a glorified choose your own adventure were your choice don’t really matters that much anyways. Also i prefer dungeon crawler gameplay instead of just going for one big boss all the time.
I hope you enjoy it :) I know I will
The only persons pick so didn’t know after they first started talking about the different aspects was Alex… 😂
Frosthaven blew me away in taking what Gloomhaven did well and filling in the gaps. The townbuilding, plethora of new kinds of events and more impact of retiring characters and overall class design are all S tier elevating beyond anything I've seen or heard in this review or in general. It is profoundly good....except for Brittle. Brittle and Snow Imps can be yeeted into the ocean.
Lol brittle is terrifying
I really like this dynamic with having Alex as somewhat video coordinator!
And this was also a good video having this two great games "compared".
For all games with this kind of entry price and commitment, these discussions are very welcomed!
I'm a Gloomhaven player at heart while I understad the fact that the story is somewhat in the background.
Still, Gloomhaven as it is such a fantastic game kind off killed the rest of the dungeon crawlers out there for me since they're not as smooth to play.
At the same time, Gloomhaven kind off also killed some of my interest in other large campaign-games do to the commitment factor.
...we always played Gloomhaven and nothing else for quite some time and now I want more of everything - one shots of great games etc.
Keep it up! :)
Does bro on the left work for oathsworn or something because he was riding that game on every category. He also got so upset when they picked Gloomhavens mechanics over oathsworn
Lol no, he just loves that game. It was in his top 10 of all time and pretty high too.
I once stated in a GH KS campaign discussin that GH's designer was ignoring demand for backing minis and that this flew in the face of the entire intent of a crowd funding where producers listen and identify what the funders want and deliver at a market clearing price. This was met by some backer derision as being inappropriate. Far from it as the upcoming backer kit mini campaign for GH will clearly demonstrate. Refusing to join the mini crowd leaves the GH experience paling compared to the environment that the Oathsworn minis help create at the expense of 4x storage requirements. Yet if Oathsworn is one of the best games available, why not displace lesser games? If it was a dud, it would have been a collosall one but it has turned out to be a well deserved allocation of storage space.
I gotta say, these two guests have brought me back to your channel. I drifted a bit with the Quackalope collaborations. Technical improvements aside (assuming he helped your production value), Quackalope’s persona and your chemistry with him just didn’t fit my taste in BG content. Not hating.
Whereas these two feel like they augment your channel in a more fitting way. Good personalities. I hope your off-screen chemistry and work ethic are as aligned with them as your on-screen chemistry.
Thank you Dan! I'm glad you appreciate them, I know I do.
Gloomhaven is, as far as I'm concerned, in the "easy to learn, hard to master" section. The basic combat mechanic of playing two cards is pretty intuitive. Monsterfocus takes maybe 2-3 scenarios to fully grasp it. And that's it. But figuring out the different monsters and using your cards to their full potential to not screw up takes pretty much the whole game. Especially with the many characters.
A somewhat similar game where I didn't like the rulebook was "Sword and Sorcery". Although the game looks pretty cool I think I've read through the rulebook multiple times AND watched different videos and I still don't think I know how to play it.
Compared to that Twilight Imperium is a walk in the park.
Agree regarding S&S, it's not until I actually started to play Sword & Sorcery that I understood how the game works
I must be playing Gloomhaven wrong. The only strategy I see in battle is funneling the enemy through the doors. Any other strategy is lost it seems. Love the story and other mechanics though. Haven't tried Oathsworn yet. Was 9th in line to pick up the game (along with all expansions) at GenCon but they only had 8 copies. I'll probably back it though. Thanks for the review!
Depends on enemy type, also depends a lot on what your party's characters are, if you have tinker and spellweaver and Craig heart that's alot of Aoe so it would make sense to clump up the enemys
I'd rank them
1. Oathsworn
2. Gloom Haven
3. MageKnight
4. Frost haven
5. Jaws of The Lion
Sad that I haven't played any of them but I like collecting games because they are collectibles and worth a lot
I think it should have been pointed out that Gloomhaven was designed and written by one person whereas Oathsworn has 9 writers in its credits. With 9 ppl creating the story I’d hope it would be better!
It's an interesting question about taking into account what goes into the design process.
I think go the classic, tortoise and the hare 😂
the only problem i have with Gloomhaven is that my group absolutely did not like the fact that you are on a timer and that your best cards get burned. Felt really bad when you had a setup for your big burn card only to pull the miss from the modifier deck. So now you lost the card and essentially a turn and it happened to one of our group members so much that he just quit the game all together and there went the group. So i realize the card system is unique but the overall combat system left a lot to be desired from our group. I think Oathsworn will be better for this group.
I hated that too. But... that’s why I specifically had my character buy the advantage-goggles in game. Or, I ask another char for strengthen boost. Those are in game strategies to mitigate. Also, you could house-rule each player gets a one time miss-negation... usually to be used for big one shots. Can apply before modifier deck pull (still leaving in some chance), or apply after deck pull (easy-mode).
There are dozens of house rules to make gloomhaven more enjoyable as long as you ask your party leaders if they want to do them, things like remove the null and the crit for less swing straight up remove the null, and many more, plus, burns need to be in the game.
There is a rule variation in the rulebook that allows you to play critical hits and critical misses as +2/-2 cards if you don't like this possibility. Also there are plenty of ways to mitigate this: items like the Eagle Eyed Goggles, the strengthen condition, and simply counting cards. Quitting the game over this seems like an overreaction.
Fantastic video. Makes me think oath would be the best for my miniature painting habbits, but would need to be a HEAVY time and money investment. If I were to pick one up, gloomlion wins for me. But I'll still pass for now. Campaign games aren't for me and my group.
It's good to know your preferences
My opinion:
Both. Both are good
Both are indeed good
I like the videos of 3 of you togther. Good watch
Glad you enjoyed it 🙂
Oathsworn vs Wild Assent (Lavon Rising)? Boss battlers with "story mode". GH is a different beast
I had finished GH main story , but I don't want play again, very repeat feeling in dungeons part. And all character their some special power card using timing is very similar in each dungeons....
Oathsworn is very great game that give people choose how to perform their character in battle field.
Both are solid in such different ways
Gloomhaven is awesome but it takes SO long to set up and take down. Oathsworn wins over, but not by much.
I'll be daring for a second. Find a friend who will do it or take a few days to learn a TTRPG system instead. Games like Gloomhaven will never be able to measure up to a RP campaign, and there are really simple systems that you can pick up as a DM in 2-3 days.
Why draw from a deck of 100 quest or monsters when you can have an infinite number of them, and a truly branching and spontaneous game
We’ll be starting up some TTRPG stuff soon 👀
Interesting idea for video, but i feel like two of you don’t have enough experience with Oathsworn and 1 of you has nowhere close to enough experience with Gloomhaven to really make comparisons i could trust. Def enjoyed the conversation!
Glad you enjoyed, take whatever you want out of the video:)
Did Alex ever end up playing KDM?
Not yet :(
best game ever
I like Devon a lot more on this channel.
I like you! I also agree that I suck on my own channel ;)
Man, Alex at 2x speed is more like at 4x speed
lol
Oathsworn wins on all aspect for me. It’s not even a close race, even though Gloomhaven is still a great game. Oathsworn is my second favorite campaign game ever, and best combat focused campaign game. Sleeping Gods gets my overall favorite, but Oathsworn is real close.
Obviously the story is better in Oathsworn, and there’s little debate to that, but I personally prefer the mechanics of Oathsworn much better then Gloomhaven also. It’s much simpler, without losing any depth. I find that I’m focusing more on the board and the incredible miniatures and theme, then I do on the cards in my hand. With Gloomhaven, I need to experiment with what cards I’m going to play, and plan several steps ahead of time, because it’s so unforgiving if you aren’t playing cards optimally. That’s not a bad thing, but it does ruin any bit of immersion there is.
My question is why play those instead of D&D or a like? I don't get it.
Only a fool would start with Gloomhaven or Oathsworn if looking for this type of game. Jaws of the Lion is a cleaner more compact and, better experience for a fraction of the cost. All should start there and see if they're into this type of game.
Gloomhaven is 86-87 euro's pretax for retailers.
im personally not interested in either. i dont get the hype for either one. 1 is a dungeon crawler that locks you out of core skills because you used it 5 turns ago and the other is a boss battler with story that ultimately makes no difference in the outcome. i really believe that both benefited greatly from the hype train. no game is for everyone so these games not being for me doesnt mean anything, just my opinion overall. obviously both games were created with attention to detail and passion and thats great for the fans.
One issue is that these games are too pricy to "try both". I like Jaws of the Lion as a cheap way to try Gloomhaven. More big box mega games need small "demo" versions to engage players.
I really dislike Gloomhaven. It is the dryest of Euros. Mechanics and math is the right answer. As a person that loves both RPGs and mechanical Euro games. Gloomhaven disappointed heavily on everything but the battle mechanics. I am still waiting for Oathsworn but im excited to try it.
An hour video??!!!
Devon's love for Oathsworn is enticing... I'll stick to JotL... these two are too big and time consuming. I have enough campaign games now and tend to stop getting more of those.
Absolutely hold off if you don't feel you need it.
You’re enticing, Sebastian 😉
🤣
I'm not sure why people find Gloomhaven so repetitive? Every level you gain two new abilities to choose from, and then you have to drop an old ability. Also, your card selection changes for every scenario. And when you retire (and you will do this several times in your campaign) you get a whole new character race! The monsters change as well - as you gain higher levels, so do they - every monster gains new abilities as they increase in level. The dungeon tiles constantly change and every scenario is something new each time. The huge variety in magic items and the ability to enhance your abilities also allows for a ton of variety. And then there are the perks - you get to decide what cards to take out and which ones to add to your attack modifier deck. So I am really not sure why this is a complaint? "Kill all enemies" - well sorry folks, but that mission has been constant in every combat-oriented game from D&D to Advanced Squad leader, with very few exceptions. I have so far played 38 scenarios of Gloomhaven with my crew, and we still have the love for it as we did with the very first scenario.
We have not tried Oathsworn, but we are certainly open to it.
Considering that Gloomhaven was published 5-6 years ago, it has certainly weathered the test of time. The card mechanics, IMO, are top notch. Without doubt, Gloomhaven is an elite game.
Devon's 9 out of 10 score for Gloomhaven mechanics should really be 20 out of 10.
And Oathsworn beats Gloomhaven in most other areas.
Hence Oathsworn is an overall better game.
But if you are a hardcore mechanics calculator, then Gloomhaven wins!
Hahahahaha I agree with you. It’s a superb game.
Just want to add that if you are a solo mechanics guy, you might as well just play the digital Gloomhaven. It saves you so much time on setup, maintenance, and tear down!
I just bought Oathsworn and been playing JOTL and Gloomhaven campaigns. i hope I like Oathsworn for the $$$ I spent. LOL
Click vs Bait: play this And that,
And find out by yourselves.
Because in the end (and right from the start -) everything in life is just a matter of an individual experience, opinion and taste.
Hot take....reviews are useless and never ever relevant because they don't matter.
@@BoardGameCo You might be surprised but -
I appreciate LOTS of reviewers and non-reviewers (yet gamers) opinions, Including yours, and the cool people who surround you.
I just... ever since... didn't believe in the concept of comparison,
And all that it represents really.
Personally, I find comporisions quite useless,
And never really understood their purpose.
Oh, that is a good opportunity to clarify:
There is a difference between a comparison which its purpose is to make you understand a game mechanic or theme through another game,
Which are most welcome and beneficial,
And a comparison of "who does what better" -
Which are non-beneficial and kind of purposeless.
Now, I challenge you -
Instead of holding off, twisting meanings, or questioning my intentions,
Try to embrace a doubt for a moment, as well as the possibility that despite the natural human tendency and attraction for this concept,
Actually, there aren't many benefits, if any, in comparison.
I really enjoy Oathsworn but I don't really enjoy Gloomhaven as much.
Basically, Oathsworn is better overall, but Gloom haven has better mechanics. Oathsworn particularly having better narrative. If you want a deeper mechanical driven overhead puzzle type gameplay, play Gloomhaven. If you want a more engaging and deep story with combat mechanics that are still decent and also more emotionally engaging like your in combat, pick Oathsworn.
Basically do you want thinker or story, and which do you prefer.
Oathsworn seems to be the safer option. It almost sounds like a gateway game into campaign games like this, one that has solid marks in everything basically, while having a superior story, and ease of access. Gloomhaven seems to be more of a specialization into mechanical depth, but at the cost of more complexity and lacking in other areas like story and such. Both good, but for different situations, preferences, and so on.
Personal Part:
Personally probably going oathsworn for its easy of access. It is hard enough getting people to play, but this may make that possible. Family prefer story as well, but It still has fun gameplay. Usually a mechanics focused person myself, but story is one place I lack in the collection, and this sounds like one of the best locations to get it from. Other games focus too hard on story, but I get bored if the game is not fun enough as well, or they have generic or too silly of themes. Idk, picky on story in particular as it is one of my least interested in games, but this has sounded like the most promising one. I would have preferred Gloomhaven maybe, as I like mechanics most, but it seems like a pain to learn as well, and more generic fantasy feeling. Idk much about frosthaven, but it got my attention a tad more. May look into it more. Also heard of another gloomhaven like game coming out with a more unique avatar like design you covered. May just wait to look into that. Forgot the name though.
Gloomhaven is the reason I didn't back Oathsworn. They do similar stuff but Gloomhaven does things more to my liking - it has more depth. (at least compared to what I've seen of Oathsworn). And I don't need two games that do similar things. (Jon's Theory)
I'm thinking the same right now: I have Gloomhaven fully organized with the insert, played only one scenario so far (lost). I already have a campaign dungeon crawler game. I want to dive into GH before moving into something else.
Customer service for Oathsworn is utterly abysmal
Ahh, finally the gloomhaven hype is settling down.
I mean...barely :)
Gotta admit I just finished gloomhaven jatl bought it at Walmart a couple weeks ago the game is hella hype and definitely will be buying the main game soon.
...."Doven into.." Doven. Dove"n? Dived into? It was bugging me, sorry. It would be "Dove into" - Grammar Police :)
Imagine the terror of growing up reading fantasy novels before trigger warnings were a thing.
My euro game loving friends all like Gloomhaven. My dice chucking ameritrash friends all like Oathsworn. So just ask yourself, do you want euro or ameritrash?
Personally, I go Oathsworn all day everyday.
Guy with cup is cute
I feel like this is the wrong comparison to make. At around 25 scenarios, Oathsworn is better compared against the much cheaper Jaws of the Lion. Narratively, it is better compared against the more-expensive-unless-you-kickstarted-it Frosthaven. While Gloomhaven innovated in lots of ways it is 5 years old at this point and especially known to have weak writing because it was basically made by one guy, who is not a writer.
You are comparing two completely different games. One is a wannabe dungeon crawler and the other one is a boss battle. They don't work the same way because they're two different games.
Why is devon so f…… cute…..
A question we ask ourselves daily.