Differences between 2004R and 700r4 transmissions - Ask Nick @ Classic Nation
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2016
- Differences between 2004R and 700r4 transmissions - an installment of "Ask Nick" by Classic Nation.
If your transmission is due for an overhaul, you should consider the 2004r and the 700r4. This car advice comes from Nick at Classic Nation, an automotive expert with a background in GM, ls swap, classic car, and performance car work.
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My '74 Camaro has a 2004R out of a Grand National. The gear spread is awesome. I was never fond of the spread of the 700R4. You have to have the right converter of course, and have the TV cable set properly, which is nice because you can set up with a nice firm shift. With the .67 OD and lockup, I just cruise on the freeway.
I have a 2004R and my deciding factor was my previous was a th350. the 2004R bolted right in with a new flexplate, different yoke, and I had to move the trans crossmember back. I didn't need to cut my drive shaft. I have an 1800 TC. Not a race car, just a driver. I'm happy with it but my stock rear end is a tad tall so my engine lugs under load when auto shifting from 3-4. My cheap fix; city driving at 3rd and 4th on the highway. My advice before doing either swap is look up TV cable adjustment. That thing will burn your 2004R and 700R4 if not installed and adjusted properly. Do a visual confirmation of your tv adjustment with the pan off and then do a pressure test after. Better safe than sorry. Also, make sure your gas pedal is getting WOT cause that will mess up the tv too.
I was working on my car. And noticed the plug on side of tranny. Which is the overdrive lock I belive. My question is the plug burnt crispy but the wire only at plug only burnt. So did I ruin anything. Tia
Hi Nick, I have a Chev 350 with TH350 and will be doing a TH2004R swap anytime soon. Whilst the swap seems relatively straightforward with some mods from the blogs, I noticed none mentioned about the flexplate. Can I assume it's all the same, so the starter won't have any issues with the 200 bell housing? Cheers
Need to swap out a TH350 in my 58' Chev Belair as it has no OD......Any ideas or options to consider for a good OD trans swap?.....Thanx....SZ
So I have a 1963 Chevy impala 327 turbo engine with 4 speed Muncie transmission. I know, I know why change from manual to automatic. That shifting gears shit is played out to me. I just want to cruise. I’m replacing it with a 700r4 which is being built by bow tie over drive transmissions. Converter is a 1800 700r 4 heavy duty c4hdt. Rear end is a 373 I believe. Will I be in good shape with this replacement???
I recently purchased a 700r4 transmission. The Id tag number is (9 mpm 285 B) anyone know what MP stands for?
The 200 4R has way better ratios. The 700R4 was built so gutless cars could pull away from the stop light
They're not really very differently geared though. The 200-4R is geared slightly higher in most gears, but the numbers work out to about 10% higher 1st, and bout 5% higher 2nd and 4th. Anyone would be served fine by either choice it seems. Whichever one fits in your project better I guess. The 200-4R is smaller... ;)
@@laglord Not a big difference by doing the math but there's a big different when you actually feel the difference in the ratios on the street. 2004R is superior for it's gear ratio spread over the 700R4.
The Syclone and the Typhoon both had 700 and they made more hp and torque the GN.
700 is a better tranny for a four-wheel-drive truck
If you’re pulling a boat or a trailer 700 is way better to get off the line
The real question is for a daily driver is : which one runs at a lower rpm on the interstate going 70mph
They are both really good for daily driving if you keep em as lock up. 70 mph down the highway around 2100 rpm. 2004r is more responsive
It's more than that
I got the "Monster 2004r" transmission behind my 408ci sbc in a 1984 s10 2wd blazer. The thing rips!
U like it better than a 350 trans
@@altondickens4277 ...Yeah I do. The TH350 is a 3 speed. With the Monster 2004r you get a overdrive gear. Plus the ratio between 1st. gear, and 2nd. Is a tall gear. So you can get out in front in a race. Well other transmission are shifting. You are going.
Triton Bradford u didn’t want a 700r
@@altondickens4277 a 700r4 to make lower gear ratio is so expensive might as well by a 4l80E
mrhazel my 350 trans doing good but I feel like I need another gear cause I ride a lot sometimes. I have a 356 engine 3500 stall 373 gears with a DB carb. U can check it out on my page
Oh some ask about highway cruising , well .67 to .70 overdrive is hardly noticeable but the 700 first gear 3.06 will combine with more common ratios like 3.42 . see 3.42x3.06=10.46 and compared to a th350 3.52x4.10=10.33 so you can see the 700 with 3.42 will out accelerate a 350 with 4.10 gears but the 200s 3.74x3.73+10.22 , so these are all close but .67x3.73=2.5 and 700s .7x3.42=2.39. and th 350 well 1x4.10=4.10 . so 700 actually wins here and drop between 1st and 2nd with torque like 3 383 stroker the problem is negligable.The 200 evenness lends itself well to turbo setups,Did I mention buick😉
Correction th 350 1st gear 2.52
When I did the TH350 to 200-4R swap on my channel I can confirm the two are not the same length.
Bingo.
There is 3 different lengths 350s 6 inch 9 inch and 12 inch the 6 inch 350 is the same length as 200r4
depends which 350 you used, the shortest IS the SAME length as the 200-4r
Good explaination.
Thanks!
The 1st gear in a 700r4 is 3.06. 1st gear in the 200r4 is 2.74 i believe. This is from memory, not the internet. I remember back when cars had these 2 trannies in them. The 200 was always called a 200R4 back then. As for the overdrive, .67 vs. .74 I don't think it would make a difference
So with a 200-4R the smaller of the two flex plate that GM made for the 350 application would be? the better choice for the daily driver starter would have to be the one with both bolts hole's even with other on both sides. I'm a novice that's why I'm asking
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking here.
Yeah the 700r4 where junk around that time In the V8 models the torque converter was all wrong or you needed the corvette servo I don't remember ...I think they did fine with the 4.3l v6... Like the GMC Syclone she was quick fastest 0-60 in the world at the time in 1991 4.3 seconds....and no way anyone with a 87 GNX was getting beat by much just saying, I can say most people where getting the 200 4R's from the used Cadillac's back then.
I wonder if its possible too make a 3 speed like a TH200C or TH350 3rd Gear a .90 instead of the regular 1.00 ratio like a 3 speed with a small overdrive like have a transmission shop change out the 3rd gear ratio
did you find anyone who can swap 3rd gear??
So what would be a better tranny for my 78 impala with a built 383 stroker Ford 9 inch with 411s gears with a 26inch rim ????
700 stronger stock but breaks internal parts when strained , the 200 is mecanically stronger but not hydraulicly(if that is even a word).good builders have overcome the hydralic shortcomings of the 200r4(thank you buick). Also many 200r4 have dual bellhousing bolt pattern so will bolt to say example 77 trans am...
Doing a swap on a 64 Malibu SS powerglide to 2004r
Is the cable conversion required, not a fan of cable, did it
on a 700r4 conversion also center console. So here's a
question for anyone who has the answer. What is the best
way to run stock steel linkage?
how did it go with your swap from PG to 200-4r? i have a 64 impala and looking to do the same
@salimsopari from economic standpoint
I am getting better gas mileage due to overdrive. I ended up putting the 283 back in my Chevelle. But I miss the long 1st gear with glass packs there is the sound effects.
But I drive my car to work on the freeway in the fast lane at low RPMs 2000 . I think that I should have replaced the sur-vo
and grinded a few grams off the governor
I had a grand national
Governor in at But it was shifting around
5 grand. Too much
So I tamed it shifts
around 3500 rpms
If you are planning on a cruiser, stock is good.
Manual value body is the way to go if you want to get a perfect
Power band.... over all, it was a good upgrade.
Follow me I been thinking about a road test video and a walk around. A freeway trip
would answer more questions.
i have a 1979 camaro z28 and i dont know how to find the stock transmission to it it has a 200 what i been told n it feel pretty good going 50-60 around there the third shift kicks in wondering if this is the original or not help??🙏
Hi Danny! You'll want to check the numbers on your transmission to see for sure. Here is the info you'll need to decode what you have: nastyz28.com/2gcog/trans.html I hope that helps! Thanks for tuning in!
@@ClassicNation nice thanks alot im just a normal guy dont know anything about mechanic but im learning as i go had my camaro for 8 years now and im learning alot thanks for the info much appreciated👍🏻
How am I just learning about a 200 r transmission, I bought two brand new 700R transmissions in the last 6 years and both of them are doing the same thing first gear going out I think I'm going to try 200 next
Good call. You won’t be sorry.
I have 73 trans am with a turbo 400. What would be better to swap, a 200R4 or a 700R4? Thanks.
4L80
Keep what you have and buy a Hyundai for when you need to save gas. Your car is worth too much to "improve" and the 400 is born ready to handle a big block. A T/A with a THM-400 probably has a 455. You can get a 4L80 - much better unit than either - with a BOP adapter or bell but why not just LS-swap it if you don't care if the car is historically accurate and you are this concerned about gas mileage and about not driving a Hyundai?
Is putting a 700r4 transmission in a 68 impala 327engine a good choice?
Yes
It's my understanding that the 700r4 went through a revision in '88 which made it much stronger and it was the biggest GM transmission in the 80's. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks.
It became an overall trans then and still is very rebuildable and there are so many videos to help build your own. The 200's seem to be very particular about rebuild techniques. They can be built to handle good power and abuse. Most people that seem to really like them have older gm's with th350's. That way it is an easy replacement no need to cut a drive shaft.
What do you mean Biggest, as in actual size?
@@bluesky-ud9wg Yes.
What are the differences between 2004R, 4L60E, 4L80E, and a TH400??
2004r you can modify the hell out of em. Add a cooler and your got a higher performance trans. Best trans for road and drag in my opinion. 4l60 you start running into more electrical stuff, and it has both a 3 piece case and 1 piece. Not a performance trans. Or tow ready. 4l80 is a Od trans. Same as all the other but you need a stand alone computer to make it work. It runs hot but you can abuse it! 400 is a 3 speed trans. High gear, so it screams on the road. But. It’s bulletproof if done right. 😊 7004r, same as 2004r. Harder to install. And has weak 1-2 gear. Unless built right. But it’s an amazing daily driver trans.
I'm glad to have come across your video as I'm on the same boat at the moment between these 2 types of trans. I have a 62 Impala with a 327/PG combo. I will be doing a trans swap as I don't like the PG at all, I currently have a 700r4 available, however I have been hearing about the 200-4R in place of the PG to be a better swap. I have a few questions, I was told that I would need to change out the flex plate if I'm getting rid of the PG, would you know what flexplate I would have to go with? My next question, I know with the 700r4 I will have to make some modifications for the shift linkage, TV cable, wire in the TC lock-up, etc... With the 200-4R is wiring no longer an issue? Thanks in advance!!!
You seen to know too much to be asking for help.
Wires only used for lock-up in both
What torque converter best suits a 2004r?
The torque converter should be matched with your engine combo, not necessarily your transmission type. I'd recommend reaching out to your favorite torque converter brand and discussing your engine and car setup, intended driving style, etc. and have them give you a recommendation.
Hello Nick,
I have been doing a bit of research on a transmission swap in my 1977 Bandit Trans Am with a 350 transmission and the original ring and pinion was a 3.23 and now houses a 3.73.
The engine is a stroked 400 (462ci) and on the dyno made 485hp and 550ft.lbs.-tq. No I am not into racing and a 3.42 will be installed this summer.
What are your thoughts and or transmission recommendations?
Thank you, Tim H.
You will notice the difference between .67 and.70 overdrive.
Does the 200-4R have a top speed limiter? Or rather, will it not stay in 4th/OD when you are at WOT and past the shift point for 3rd? I ask this because while recently on a road course I was nearly topping out 3rd gear and shifted to 4th. It shifted to 4th but then kicked down to 3rd, but the went back into 4th, and then back down to 3rd, and so on. This happened more than once, as I accidentally shifted by tone (hearing memory) again on the next lap. It's as if the trans does not know what to do. Kickdown because I'm at WOT, or upshift because I'm past the shift point. So it just keeps doing both.
Okay. Yes, at that point with my 3.73 final drive, 3rd gear is about done at about 92 mph. I shift manually. 1 to 2 to 3 have no issues. But on the last half of the straightaway, shifting into OD in the ballpark of 5000rpm, the "gear hunting" problem occurs. I'm wondering now if the trans has a top speed governor, or if there is something wrong with my OD gear.
Additional info:
-Using a TransGo shift kit
-The car was sold as a "T Package" Regal in '87 but was sold with a low-output Oldsmobile 307 V8
-Final drive was changed to 3.73:1 from 2.56:1, speedometer was not re-calibrated (using gps for mph)
I'd reach out to whoever built the transmission to verify things. Have you ruled an issuer with your lockup converter? Do you have a speed control lockup or auto 4th gear lockup? Something might be happening there.
Actually apart from a new stator shaft (which I didn't do personally), the shift kit, and an aftermarket converter the trans is basically in stock form. I've never had it fully rebuilt since buying the car in '08. I'll look into the lock-up situation. I haven't touched that aspect. Should be stock. I believe the converter I bought was lock-up compatible (if memory serves and I'm not speaking nonsense). Thank you.
the 2004r [street name] factory name MW9,the designation number 200 means the kilogramconversion to ft lbs is very low on this unit,it was designed to haul old people around to stores and what not,it was never designed for performance use,the overdrive unit is attached to the input shaft is anemic at best,the clutches are the same size as the 200 c 3speed and the 3254L,all of these are designed for comfort vehicles,the 700r4 street name MD7 FACTORY NAME, is a superior unit,only trouble we had in the earlier ones was the hardening process on some forward planetary outer rings was deficient,now after 500 different master builders have had over 30 years to modify it,it will give the performance and cruising public they want,it also is a lockup unit,and thusly it will provide for excellent gas economy in a cruiser,in those days I was going to GM TRAINING SCHOOL every other week for updates,use the 2004r for cruisers and 700 r4 for getting serious,there are parts now to make them almost bulletproof for performance street use,if using power adder,NOS,BLOWER,TURBO FOR DRAG,powerglide your on your way
Sorry my friend, you're misinformed.
I have an 85 C10 350, 700r4 stage 3, 2200 to 5800 510/520 cam
2800 stall
I'm going to be running 28 inch tires
I'm going to be using a 10 bolt 8.5 inch ring gear rear end with 8.6 guts with a Eaton truetrac.
I want to run 4.56 in my rear end but I'm afraid first gear is going to be way too short should I go with 4.11?
I'm fine with the 4.56 rpm on the highway because I have Overdrive and lock up converter
I am just worried about first gear being too short.
Opinions?
The 700r4s love the 3.73's go that route.
200 4R is a BOP trans you will need a adapter and i don't see very many upgraded parts for it
The 2004r has both gm universal bolt pattern and BOP. (2 different cases)
I put in a 700r4 transmission on my el Camino and a 350 engine and had to rebuilt the transmission 3 times 😣 I heard I need a 700r4 carburetor bracket?? Is that true? I'm so tired of this car already. Can you please help?
Its absolutely critical to have the correct geometry for a 700r4 or 200-4r transmisssion's Throttle Valve (TV) cable. Incorrect configuration of this would absolutely damage a transmission. That said, you will want to be sure you're using the correct bracket, or fabricate something that gives you the correct geometry. You will want a specific TV bracket for your exact carb if you go the "off the shelf" route. I hope that helps!
@@ClassicNation can you recommend any 700r4 brackets that you are familiar with ?
@@cramos6638 Sure, what carburetor are you running?
Classic Nation original Chevy. Rod Hester I believe it’s called
Classic Nation with a edlebrock intake manifold
Do you think the 2004R can handle a 383 Stroker? Thanks
I my find out soon...wish me luck..
I don’t like it
Depends on your ho and torque
well Nick is full of bull about a 2004R grand national handling more torque. they are the same unit as all 2004R only the valve bodies are different, and the fluid tracks in the case. i like the 200 better than the 700, how do i know? i have been a professional transmission rebuilder for 46 years, just retired 2 years ago,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Which one is the best for the Buick roadmaster 1992 model ??
700r4 or 200r4 or TH350 ??
Hard to say. "Best" might be easiest, which might be the least amount of work, which might mean 700-r4.
I've got a 1990 g20(3/4 ton) without reverse (reason I got good deal $350) with 6.2l diesel only 90,000 miles. Need to either rebuild or find good used tranny to swap. I dont have access to the vehicle at the moment as I'm going to school 3000 miles away. Anyone know or have educated guess as to which trans I should be looking for ? And should I have original rebuilt or find a good used to swap? Rear wheel drive van. Work van that I was thinking of making it into a campervan. Help would be much appreciated!
4L80 used with most all diesels
Compare the pan shape (just google "GM transmission pans"). You probably have a 700, but the only way to know is to look.
In that era, as fast-and-loose as GM was with supposedly 3/4 ton vans, you could have a 700-R4 or a 400. But to lose reverse, the 700 makes more sense. A failure on forward tends to disable reverse.
I wouldn't bother swapping in another 700 without rebuilding it; they had serious problems and any used unit you buy for a 1990 is going to be pretty tired. With a rebuild, there are a lot of upgrades to make them better - stronger sprag, wide intermediate band, upgraded 3-4 clutch, improvements to the separator plate, etc. If it's a 400, and the pan doesn't have a lot of crap in it, you could get away with swapping in a used one.
But whichever one you have, units that haven't been made for 30 years and aren't worn out are like finding a virgin in a maternity ward. A lot of them have been rebuilt, and not very well. You probably are better off properly rebuilding whatever you've got. Avoid the cheapest shop and ask around locally. With GM/Chevy stuff, get to know the hot-rod guys and how long their cars have held up.
For a long drive, you'd need to consider whether it's best to try and expect your project van to be a daily driver. Nothing wrong with it if you do - it's actually awesome - but a 30-year-old vehicle could develop issues along the way on a 3000-mile drive and you'd need to inspect it thoroughly and be prepared for something to go wrong along the way. Financially, tools and time-wise.
The 700R4 is usually more plentiful.
Whoever thinks a 200 4R can be built as strong as a 700 R4 has never seen them apart . The clutch basket and shaft are the weak link on the 200 4R , and don’t compare with the 700 R4 . Too bad the 700 R4 has the poorer gear ratios though
sounds like lockup to me.
oh maybe its the 700 that only has chevy pattern but the 700 and 4l60 is the better trans they can be built they make so much for it a 200 is a dinosaur they make a rebuild kit and that s about it oh and they make a 2:84 planet Which is a big game changer
Is that Big Chief?
You mean, Monza?
Good info! Do you think a 200 4r would be a good swap for a 63 Impala w/ a 283 Powerglide? Thanks
Swapping from a PG to a 200-4R is a great swap. Exactly what I did in my 65 impala when I was running a 327/PG. The difference from the PG to the 200-4R is huge, and I loved my choice. It will literally make your impala feel much quicker off the line, and likely, substancially increase your highway MPG.
@@ClassicNation I'm sold, thanks for the reply!
Classic Nation what all was needed to do that swap ? I have a 64 impala with a th350 i want to swap out.. Cross member the same ?
@@ClassicNation hoping to do the same with my 64 impala ss 327/PG
having trouble finding a 200-4r
@@coop962014 i want to know more about the th350 in your 64 impala. i have a 64 and am trying to decide between the th350 and 200-4r
All the old guys around here say the 200s are made of glass ?
It's much more than the OD ratio, lol. The 200 is better
Just get a cheaper stronger better 4l80e or even 4l65e and build one of those bad boys
No matter what you hear Dont use the200 4R ,thay are very good but not worth the extra shit you have to go into re build that picky bastard. ,,"""GO FOR THE. 700 R4. THE REASON IS ,IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO CRUZING W/YOUR HOT ROD. YOU GET BETTER GAS MILEAGE FOR LESS $ AND MOAST AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION REBUIDERS,LIKE ME FIND THEM MUCH EASER TO BUILD. 2. PARTS ARE MORE AVAILABLE. AND THE200 LOCK UP SUCKS. SO GO WITH THE 700 R4 TRUST ME MY BROTHERS AND I HAVE OPERATED EDWARDS BROTHERS TRANSMISSIONS SENSE 1977. THANKS Y'ALL🎄
Agree to disagree?
700r4 weak... 200r4 was in the GN
If your building a strong engine 200r4 all day
Wiki nut
200r4.
Maybe you know something myself and General Motors doesn't? Has Chevy been referring to their transmission incorrectly all these years... www.repairmanual.com/product/chevrolet-thm-200-4r-transmission-manual-reprint-thm-200-4r/
The 200 and the 200 4 R were junk regardless what this guy is telling you
That is why you have to get a Stage kit to strengthen them to take power. After that, you just need a converter lockup kit and a Shiftwerks kit.
I don't agree, nor do countless others.
@@ClassicNation I have a 1990 chevy caprice 9c1 police package...700r trans.. Original but I'm going with the 2004r until I get the 700r4 out the rebuild shop..will the lock up electronic plug work in the 2004r??