12v Air Compressor Wars: Thumper Max II / Maxi Trac Electrical Upgrades
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2023
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In this episode of Lock your Hubs 4WDinng we improve the electrical performance of the Maxi Trac / Thumper Max II 12v Air Compressor.
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With the external plumbing next on the agenda, how should we plumb the external airlines on the Thumper Max II?
I’m looking forward to the next part… I melted/split the hose from the outlet from running it a little too long at some point. Currently putting together a parts list for these electrical mods. Great video mate
Could you cut the positive and negative cables coming out of the pcb, put a butt join in and upgrade the cabling... Reckon that'd be nearly just as good? 🤔
It would be close.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing 35's 8.7% bigger than my 32's
Before modification
35's
18 - 38 psi
113 sec
- 8.7% for my 32's
103 secs
72 secs
84.9 amps constant.
After with 2AWG from kings jumps cables.
After this I think the volume is a lot more than the 8.7% in size. But anyway. 72 secs for my 32".
The internal volume of 35s is significantly more than 32s.
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that love solder & those that are wrong.
I did chuckle at that one!
Another great video. Thanks for your hard work and attention to detail.
Glad you enjoyed it, I really enjoy doing this sort of stuff.
Thanks for the tear down and mods and looking forward to the next episode. Cheers
It's slowly coming together, it's looking mighty promising.
Abosulty love your work mate, this is the video I wanted to make but you've saved me all the effort 😂 I'll be eagerly awaiting your results, I'm planning to run 2 of these in series on our 24v Suzie OBA setup. For the price you can't go wrong. Keep up the good work, your production quality is 10/10 👌
Thanks mate, 2 should really shift some air!
Seen other videos most got biggest improvements via mods to the air side manifold.
Made it bigger and flow better.
Best copper pipe made like a car header to join both side without them fighting each other.
Exactly what's happening!
So glad I am not the only one that is voiding my warranty on a new pink dual thumper. I too have the frankenstein version, Great video confirming my choice of voiding my warranty just after purchase.
They're cheap enough to blast on through!
Another tip for you is to use a cable tie around the stripped cable end to hold the strands together when you put the crimp end on. Saves you having any flyaway filaments hanging out.
Thanks, I'll have to give it a go.
Excellent video. I bought a second one, stripped it bare and put locktite on all the screws/bolts inside (known issue), cleaned the pistons up and lubricated with Silicone Grease, and did the electrical mods you have done (70-120 psi switch). I also added bigger air fittings (using the original outlet port with adapters) and a better hose. Should last forever, and I have the older one to do the same to as a spare. My 2.2c 🙂
I think a complete strip down is a great idea, I'll have to do that to this one.
Awesome Work
Thanks mate, I appreciate it!
Love the vid mate . I’ll be doing this
Cheers mate, glad you liked it!
Love to see a guy that knows his stuff. ^.^
Thanks!
Keen for the next video mate!
It's a cracker, so I decided to check how fast the Thumper Max turned, you won't believe that answer!
Love your style! It's like watching both Dave and AvE at the same time. Great tests, the Thumper Max will suit my occassional usage patterns just fine even without the mods.
Who's Dave?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing the EEVBlog guy... does teardowns and always gives tips for young players.
@@veryboringname. Oh, that Dave! :)
Great video! Suggestions on figuring out your amazing results:
1. Put the old power leads back on and see what time you get
2. Could cleaning up the pistons before reassembling have cleared out gunk and caused the performance improvement?
3. Buy another one, repeat the tests and see if it happens again!
I think I know someone who I could borrow one from, hopefully that could settle it!
When you did the last video i suggested that changing the cables was a great place to start, it almost seemed like with your response of "its only a 0.2v drop" you didnt believe that it would make such a difference, but ive personally done that and seen a fantastic difference too, im glad you saw the same gain, and no i dont think you had a faulty compressor before, those figures sound pretty close to what i remember getting, though mine is the maxitrac version from supercheap. I also chamfered the ports in the head, and it made an audible difference as well as knocking a further 10 sec off the inflation time on a 33" muddy.
I also added a pressure regulator and water trap, along with a 4 tyre at once setup. I usually just hook all 4 tyres on and then have a drink or do some cooking, so im not too concerned about the time, but i modded more out of wanting longevity and reliability, since i frequent the glasshouse tracks once a month sometimes more, and beach driving on bribie Island since its literally at my back door 😊
You may well be right! I was actually surprised that it was even close to spec, especially considering how hot the cable was after even just a couple of tyres.
After the external plumbing, I'm going to have a look at the port sizes and chamfering the ports, unfortunately it doesn't look like you can go very much bigger on the exhaust, so that'll limit the inlet as well to keep the inlet/exhaust ratio in check.
Time will tell!
@LockyourHubs4WDing the inlet is the most important since you really dont want there to be vacuum in the cylinder, i opened mine up almost to the same size as the reeds, every little bit helps. I also noticed it doesn't get as hot now after the porting which also means less condensation ends up in my air tank
@LockyourHubs4WDing also worth noting that hotter cables carry less power, so if you measured the current and voltage drop when the cables are cold you're not getting a real world readout for the third and fourth tyre. Ive tested 6mm silicone cable at 50A charging lithium batteries, and at first, they flow 50a no problem. After 30 mins, the 50a charger is still pumping out 50a but at the battery, the smartshunt only reads 44 of those amps reaching the battery, on only 30cm of cable. They feel similarly in warmth to the thumper cables in temperature, ive not measured the temp but they get warm thats for sure. Cooling the cables with compressed air immediately raises the amps measured by the smartshunt so cable temperature really has a noticeable effect!
That's amazing! I wouldn't have guessed it would be that immediate.
I'm an old _art so you didn't upset me.... I 💓💓💓 Solder
The comments section will begin the roast of Simon in 3,2,1..... :)
hnn, when hex crimping I tend to (nearly always/often) use 2 die sets - start with one that fits to start (it indices a nice hex crimp) , then go one size smaller to make the crimp tight (rotating 1-flat, half way through to avoid crimping "wings" on the fitting - the flash wings which "sometimes" occur from a single tight crimp technically demonstrates a failed crimp (oversized fitting for wire).
I do try and avoid "flash" if at all possible. And have successfully used 2 dies to avoid it.
Awesome video, I have an original Thumper Max and it plays up when it runs for an extended period i.e., pumping up 4 x tyres. I was going to throw it out, but after seeing this, I might do the same mods. Thank you for sharing.
Glad to help, especially if you can get it up and running again for just a few bucks and a little time.
I have the original thumper max and have done this upgrade with the solenoid and used a 100amp circuit breaker to control the on and off.
I found that the original struggled to reach the 120psi cut off and would hover at 115psi and not cut out.
So I replaced the pressure switch with a 70-100psi cut off switch and that solved the biggest issue I had with it continually running.
@@Jaseman1993 this one has a 150psi switch, but I haven't actually tried it to cutout yet.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Curiously the manual says it cuts out at 126psi, although the blurb claims it's a 150psi compressor :)
... six drops of sinister essence - you've made Milton the Monster! Nice job. And with any luck it will one day blow up in a fireball while one of your mates is using it! Good job. 🙂Cheers PP
Fingers crossed!
Thanks for the video, I've done similar with my maxitrac including using the heads, manifold and pressure switch off my failed kings thumper max I started off with 35mm2 but found it a bit hard to bend so I grabbed a set of "200 amp" jumper cables with what looked like 4awg cables but on opening them up they're more like 8awg but I'll try them and see how they go. If they get hot I'll go to the welding shop and pick up some more flexible 2awg.
That's the problem with jumper cables, plenty of insulation and not enough copper!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing where did you pick up the connector from the large cable to the small one? It looks like a better set-up than mine with a lug on each end and a bolt holding it together.
@@markfrench2700 it came from an Electrical wholesaler, Ideal Electrical.
@LockyourHubs4WDing I just did the first test of my modded maxitrac and home made 2 tyre inflator. It took 2 265/70r17s from 10psi to 40 psi in 2 minutes flat and barely got warm the braided line and manifold are both arb, the relay is a 200 amp continuous duty, the cables are a set of supposed 200 amp jumper cables. the 2 tyre inflator is made up of 8mm plastic hose with quick release couplings, tyre chucks, a 1 in 2 out manifold, a tap and guage that was lying around (ill change it for digital down the track) I'm pretty happy so far.
That sounds like it's really moving some air! Well done.
I obviously can't speak for others but this former sparky reckons you did a fine job of soldering those lugs. The very first thing I was ever taught, way back when I was 12, is that solder should be used only for conductivity, never for mechanical strength (unless you're a plumber).
I've been meaning to do a bit of testing in that department, tensile strength, vibration resistance, corrosion resistance etc.
Though I copped a decent amount of flack in the comments section from the last round of testing (Soldering vs Crimping for Anderson Plugs) I'm not sure my fragile personality could take another round! :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDingi liked that debate & I think it is still worth exploring some more.
I've heard it can actually cause problems soldering as the wire gets brittle at the solder then can tend to snap off from stress/vibration. So some recommend battery cables etc only mechanical crimp
@@user-fw6eg3hc8f It's not so much that it gets brittle but rather it can tend to be a weakness due to the transition from rigid, where it's soldered, to flexible. Of course, the exact same situation applies at the end of the lug if you use lugs that don't have a bell mouth. The bell mouth, which is always a part of quality lugs, is not there just to make it easier to insert the cable. In an ideal world, there would always be some form of strain relief at such transitions but of course, we don't inhabit an ideal world.
Lower amps but higher flow after the mods were done points to one thing - the first test had a lot higher restriction than the second one. I'd guess that you somehow forgot to remove the schrader valve on the first test (before the mods). That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Anyway loving the content, keep it up.
The first test had no Schrader, as noted on the results, and while that definitely makes a difference, not that much of a difference!
I love Solder🤣🤣
EVDERYBODY loves solder! :)
I love the fact the hole is there for solder and people don't do it... BEA systems work experience showed me everything is also soldered. The amount is the issue to much in flows into the cable and bending the breaks the internals of the wire. So trick is only just enough.
Do some cut at start of cable and if it's flowed into the cable passed the fitting its to much.
I agree, it isn't the solder that's the issue, it's creating a hard point in the cable below the insulation that is a potential fatigue point that's the issue.
Solder on mate 👍
Do you have a part number or a link to the solenoid you used?
What a fantastic video! We get the same Chinese design out here in Dubai but it doesn't have a built in pressure switch. After finding the Kings one had it, I wired a pressure switch to the manual switch but it died after about 20-30 uses. Ended up stop faffing and got a ARB single and hardwired it in my GU patrol. Yes its WAY slower but I just wanted something reliable. First video I watched from your channel. Got a Sub from me!
Thanks for the sub! What was the maximum pressure on the switch?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing No worries, 150 psi from memory.
@@MaXimus666789 well that shouldn't have been the issue, must have been something else.
Some cheaper options for a twin UDA EGOI Dual 6.1 CFM ARB clone $450 4YR Warranty
ARB Twin Clone CKMTA12 $310 Amazon
There's all kinds of clones of the ARB except without the price. Some look identical
Equal hate! Love it!! 🤣🤣
Gotta give both sides an equal opportunity! 😁
Fantastic video! great to see the scientific method used to verify your mods!
One question I did hear of someone running one of these on 24V (I have an Anderson plug for both 12 and 24 on my truck) What are your thoughts on running it on 24V?
That's the next video! Keep an eye out, you might be surprised at the results.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
I can’t find those step down butt connectors anywhere! Where did you get yours from? (to join the original positive cable to 2 gauge cable)
Mine was ordered though an electrical wholesaler, though it was supplied by GV Kingsman in Victoria.
Love this video! My kings had a puff of smoke from the PCB so figured I’d have a go at this as a fix. If I just want to do the electrical upgrade (and not the plumbing) where would I fit the pressure switch??
In line with the on/off switch.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing as a seperate connection on the existing manifold? Or can I add in line with current hose (via T-connector)?
@@ck80 either will work as long as it sees full pressure.
Hey mate, Just watched the video, bloody good info thank you, will definitely be doing these mods to mine... also, just letting you know that it wasn't faulty, as I use a timer every time I pump my 285/75 r16s up from 18 to 40 psi and it takes roughly 75 to 80 seconds
Wow! Ok, it may well be a combination of the electrics and the missing Schrader valve then.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing The Schrader valve provides very high resistance, that's why tyre shops pop beads without the valves. The size of the air passage is tiny through the valve.
@@einfelder8262IIRC a Schrader valve flows around 5cfm. A lot of companies twin piston models mention not to air up a single tire and to use a 4 tire splitter to distribute the 10cfm around instead of deadheading against the schrader valve of 1 tire.
@@1987FX16 It doesn't take long out of a 4WD weekend to pump up the 33" from 20psi back to 38 one at a time. Faffing around with an expensive 4 way system to get marginal benefit is not my idea of value. Better probably to buy one of the inflation pieces that remove the valve and allow full flow, and still do one at a time. Takes far less space in the vehicle too.
I don’t believe in miracles but just in case there are😂
Excellent video, why don’t manufacturers spend a little to gain a lot
I think there may have been a QC issue initially, I don't honestly think the electricals gained that much performance!
If you want to filter the start on current flow yoy could put a electroletic capacitor from the switch
I thought about that, and maybe a flyback diode on the coil as well.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes
Great video but I have a question. Where did you get the reducer butt connector from? I can't find it anywhere?
That came from a local supplier in Melbourne called GV kingsman
This is awesome I'm looking to mod mine the same. Would you be able to provide a link to where you go that relay. Cheers mate can't wait for the next one.
It was just an Amazon special, I'll update the description with a link tonight.
Great video again. Would be great if you can include a link to all the bits you bought in your comments 👍
G'day, thanks for the video. I'm about to upgrade the cables on mine (the old negative alligator clip fully melted in use) Although I'm deliberating on size. So the stock wiring is 7mm and you upgraded to 35mm - were you always intending to use that, or was it was just handy and "she'll be right"? What wire would you recommend for us that don't have that lying around - still the 35mm?
The 35mm² was left over from a previous project, while the standard wiring (surprisingly) was just in spec, though it heats up considerably with prolonged use.
I would look at how long you want to make the new wiring, then use one of the many available online calculators to size the wire.
I'm assuming the PCB was the improved to stop them catching fire. Remember they were called for this.
On the Mark 1, yes. Unfortunately the ICs on the PCB aren't marked, so I'm not sure what function they perform.
@LockyourHubs4WDing be interested to test a old one. See the time and voltage differences.
It's definitely a redesign for safety and compliance not speed increases
Curious what grease is best to use to lubricate the pistons?
Silicone grease is usually best for lubricating air compressors.
Was the Schrader valve removed between 113s and 44s results?
One hint on getting all the conductors into the crimp fitting I picked up from those stupid DIY videos that pop up on Facebook (the ones with dumb ideas) is to strip the insulation just short of where it needs to be, say 2mm. Remove that. Then cut the rest of the way, leaving you a ring of insulation 2mm wide. Slide that down near the end, holding all the wires in a neat right bundle. Slipping the connector on is then much easier if it's a tight fit. Push it on, cut the ring off and then push all the way home and crimp. Just the day before I had spent over half an hour under the car trying to get all the wires into a crimp that was a fairly tight fit, drove me nuts. About the only useful thing seen on those videos though!
Yes the 44s was without the Schrader valve.
Thanks for the top, I'll have to give it a go.
Something has to be wrong with the original unit. 0.2V is less than the typical difference between alternators, from one vehicle to another. Imagine if a 14.0V truck aired up in 48 seconds, then move to your buddy's truck running 13.8V, and it takes 112 sec 😁
I think you may be right, just removing the Schrader valve I don't think could have made that much of a difference.
You forgot to upset the silicone fraternity!
I tried my best! But sometimes you can't upset everyone...
I think that cable is worth more than that bloody compressor 😁 where did you source the pressure switch?
😂😂😂 you could be right! The pressure switch is an eBay special.
Any reason why you chose to switch the negative of the motor instead the positive in your circuit?
With this particular setup, the small red wire is the thermal overload (cuts out when it gets too hot)
So I chose to keep continuity in that part of the circuit (positive wire) and switch the load with the negative wire.
Though, it would have just as easily worked switching the positive wire as well with a few small wiring changes.
wasn't the standard setup actually 4.6% voltage drop as you have to double it for the other side? . at 0.28V*2*90A you would be generating 50W of heat in the wires, no wonder it would get hot when pumping for a decent time.
What did you use to re lube the pistons and bores, Silicone grease?
I should have used silicone/dielectric grease .... though I "might" have used moly grease for the test 😁 though, it's apart again now for the external plumbing upgrade.
Look up vacuum grease down corning Molykote
10:18 Honest guy!................... 18:08 OMG
Too honest usually..... :)
I was looking at a Thumper Maxx but the 90amp draw worried me. What are your thought on the current draw and the impact on the vehicles electrical system?
Ps great video
It's not really a concern for any vehicle from about the 90s onward, they'll be fine running 90a for a few minutes with the engine running.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Thanks for the reply
The Thumper Mkiii only draws around 35A and does a similar job to the twin, albeit slightly slower. Runs a bit quieter/smoother than the twin also. I’ve added a pressure switch to mine as they just have a bleed valve and run continuously.
@jamescause2862 I have an almost identical pump to the single thumper. I've recently bought a 4 tyre inflator system, was looking for a pump to take full advantage of this
What would be the best way to wire this to an aux battery? Just cut the alligator clips off and put lugs?
Yes, that should work fine! But don't forget a fuse.....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing100amp fuse ? the wiring looks small that it comes with but I’ll only need half of length so might help a bit
@@Huda88754 100a should do fine.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing also last question could I run it through a “50amp” Anderson plug ? Aslong as it’s fused appropriately? Can’t be worse than alligator clips , thanks mate
@@Huda88754 sb50 Anderson plugs are only rated to 50a for hot disconnect (under load) they're rated to 120a with a switchable load. So no worries!
Port it? Haha
After the external plumbing is done, I'm going to port the heads!
You've upset me with the shifter
Not the soldering? 😁
@LockyourHubs4WDing no, I'll trust you on the soldering. After watching your videos, it makes me want to redo all the 12V work I've done on my toys.