Star Ratings Are Lying
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2024
- Football Manager has one thing that gets close to an overall rating, but it is often misunderstood and misused as being an exact guide. I was recently shown some evidence that the star ratings, particularly for potential, were sometimes wildly inaccurate. FM is already a difficult game but it turns out it’s getting even harder.
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FM Senpai
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yearly star rating video
Yes but I feel they are even more inaccurate this year.
Scout ratings also seem to be quite inaccurate too
@@BawdyBadgerThey seem wildly inaccurate.
@@Dotsetc i've had scout reports giving a player a C rating yet when I look at them they have exactly the stats I want, all positive comments and some negative that don't matter. Yet they are cheaper too.
Because in League 2 i'm really gonna spend £15m on a "Good backup player". Yet I spot a potential regular starter at £10k
I'm going to experiment with filtering by attributes I want instead and use the scouts to spot them.
It's a tradition
@@Dotsetc I cannot find CA column in this game. Please help me someone
So true. I have a 19 year old player that my staff say that he had fulfilled his pa while in reality he kept on improving so I checked with the editor and he had 38(!) more pa to fulfill
interesting, what was your scout from the reports judging potential and their professionalism etd? If you have a save game file from the time it happened and could edit your scout to 20 on judging potential and made his hidden attributes good would it be the same or would they be more accurate?
then i guess you could conclude that it's down to a bit of nuance in the abilities of coaches or whether it's a bug that clearly needs addressing. or maybe SI could claim well in real life no one truly knows the potential of players.
i had a similar thing with a newgen from my youth intake, they had 5 stars potential and all of my scouts and head of youth are really good. then after about 1 month his potential went down to 2.5 stars so i looked in the game editor too, they report was accurately downgraded as he was at like 95 PA.
@@Writeous0ne the coach who judged him has a really high player ability and potential judging so I guess it’s about his hidden attributes and personality
It’s meant to be inaccurate tbh it’s just a staff member’s opinion just like in real life that’s why you hire the best staff
For like the last 10 years I always did it like this:
I never cared too much about the potantial that was shown, I cared more about the comment the scout/hoyd/whoever gave. Like "he can develop significant in the future" etc. . That in combination with personality, determination and work rate and I very rarely get blindsighted.
Like I just found a left back from cap verde that was only shown as 2 1/2-3 star potential but the stuff i care more about all looked nice so I signed him for 2 million. Signed him at 17 and he started developing like mad so I caved in and checked him in the editor and boom - 192 PA.
I've never seen my Scout reports giving he can develop significantly I've seen can improve a lot, Maybe I've just not been lucky enough
@@TheDangermouse999there definitely is another step above “can improve a lot”. Don’t know what the saying exactly will be as I play in German. If translated that, it would say: „can improve by worlds“
@@DepriemiertesSchnitz very interesting. I will have to pay close attention a bit more See if I spot anything else .
yes i always looked at the text which said "Decent serie A" or whatever and have signed quite a few 2 and a half star serie A players who have gone on to be sold for mega big bucks value.
This is the way!
Looks like PA judged is CA plus age plus personality. Which is very realistic and logical.
Yeah but that doesn’t make a ‘shocking’ video
Which is why he deliberately left out personalities, wouldn't be a video then
💯🎯
Nah what is shown in this video is the lower the CA the more the game believes they wont make it to the high end of the PA. So when he increased the CA then the PA star went up as it now believes he can reach it. So basically any 15-16-17 year old who looks good and has stats you like but you see 2-3 PA stars you just ignore and help them grow then decide at 18-19-20-21-22 sometime between these years you decide if you should cut or keep going. So instead of hiring and firing youth on the stars you do it based on the stats and if you like the look of the player.
@@xazarl3381 yes, that is what has been shown in the video but the fact that Ibrahimovic is fairly determined and Kusi Asare is Balanced (I am talking about Personalities) makes a lot of difference in terms of Player development. Fairly Determined is a pretty decent Personality with good Hidden Attributes but Balanced‘s Hidden Attributes can be very very bad. Balanced is used in FM‘s data banks to kind of hide a bad personality to not insult the real life player. Only regens can have a red or orange personality in their report which doesn‘t mean that every real life player has a good personality. That‘s most likely the reason for the different potential ability rating
3:10 From memory, FM deliberately screws up the potentional star ratings of under 18s in order to stop people buying up all the 16 year old wonderkids early enough that they can qualify as "Home Grown at club". Not sure of the numbers but at 16 years old the star rating could be out by (say) 2 stars but as they get closer to being 18 years old, this "up to 2-stars out" variable shrinks so that the coach / scout starts to give judgement based upon their scouting ability.
I think also narritvely there is also the Freddy Adu effect where everyone thought he was a potential ability of 190 as a 15 year old but he only actually turned into a 140 PA player in real life. Real scouts in real life can still seriously misjudge the potential of players when really, really young.
yeah, i've had 5star newgens before and they end up as 2.5 star. and yes it happens after about a month, basically it becomes accurate after the ability to poach them is gone.
also, lets be fair. This is the realistic way of doing it - the number of players IRL who come through and accurately fulfil what scouts say they should fulfil is likely very small - and that goes up as well as down.
Spotted a possible mistake in the video:
When you change player/staff attributes, you also have to adjust his CA rating to match the RCA rating in the editor. Then you have to wait till the games ticks over(this can be few ingame days, it can also be a few ingame weeks) for teh changes to take effect. If you don't match the CA with the RCA, then the game will adjust the attributes of the players/staff to match the RCA in the editor.
Dont you also have to adjust the staffs rca, if you change them?
@@marvinehre9770
These are the rules I know of in the editor both for players and staff:
-CA/RCA can never higher then PA
-RCA is a value the editor will give you based on attribute value, playable positions value and weaker foot value.
-AFAIK hidden attributes don't play a role for CA/RCA.
-If you only change the RCA, with the next tick, the game will spend these points(the difference between CA and RCA) towards every attribute that relates to CA.
-If you change attributes, the editor will suggest a RCA in the editor. You then need to match the CA with the RCA. If you do not match the CA with RCA, with the next tick, the game will change attributes back to the CA value given in the editor. This will again be done with every attribute related to CA, not just the ones you changed.
Forgot to mention that I'm still playing FM21 not 24.
So, what could be added: the younger the players the more the PA is distorted in the stars, as less is known about them and there are more outliers. As they get older, 18-19-20, the PA starts to adjust, in my experience and from 22 it is more reliable.
And other things, like form, position (goalkeepers tend to be lower rated in general, for example), personality, etc. influence the star ratings as well.
So these will always be subjective.
Was going to comment here. Most of your words are mine too. I dont peek at CA/PA, so I need the star ratings to play. The stars are mostly reliable to me, esp after 22yo like you said. A team of 3*-ers sprinkled with a few 4-5*-ers in the spine can win you the league if you are good. An longtime scout who knows your tactics and recommends a 5* after 22yo? A MUST SIGN. (After 30+ years and now the number one club in Europe maybe the world, trust me, the number of 5* players can be counted by just one hand sometimes.) Maybe it's just my biased opinion, but ... i like to think the coaches considered the TACTIC you used when "star-ing" the players too.
However, most of the players must have good Personality. I swear by Professionalism, but this is proven by so many folks already. Moreover, I play FM20, so the devs may not have screwed with the star ratings to prevent wonderkids hoarding. *shrugs 🤷♂
Regarding the CA differentials between Coman and Neuer and such, is there a chance that positional strength is factored in, i.e Coman is a three star player for Bayern when compared with the forward/wing alternatives whereas Neuer is being compared with the goalkeeping alternatives who are, in Bayern's case, significantly weaker than the players Coman would be compared with?
I believe this is true. Star ratings of a player do change if you change their position or role.
Yeah this is what I thought. Star ratings aren't reflective of just the PA, but more the PA when compared to other players in that position in the club. I could be wrong though
@@willza0112 yeah. Obviously there is some weight on star rating across the entire team in terms of ability but if you put Harry Kane in central midfield, his star rating will drop massively cos he's being compared to actual central midfielders that are natural in that positions and have better attributes for that position/role.
Likewise with Kusi-Asare being compared with Kane so his PA stars will be much lower than Ibrahimovic v Coman. I've always viewed stars as "this is how good the player can be" whereas if the player is being compared to a Messi caliber player his PA stars are unlikely be above 3. Wonder if it's worth signing older players just to use as a gauge for your youth team
That's true yes.
Have a 15yr goalie who is “2*PA” but checked genie scout has a PA of 160 because I was curious why my youth day intake said a very very good keeper.
Interesting to see hear this though
That is an interesting take on why youth intake seems to lie about a great intake class with a bunch of low star players
@@iambicpentakill971it gets even stranger I got a player with PA198 who is actually rated 5*PA and he’s a CAM/ST came through same youth intake
When looking for young players now I'm more interested in their 'team fit' on the reports, as well as the hidden stuff like big matches, professionalism, etc. And there are red flags for certain positions (never sign a full back who is 'poor in the air' for instance).
True. Jumping is much more important for fullbacks than center backs in the current match engine which is crazy.
What I learnt: my beloved wonderkid from my FM24 save, Jonah Kusi-Asare has actually now signed for Bayern in real life, while I got him for 2 million euros before from AIK ... 😃
Played it since I was 13 (champMan) to now 34 and starts still run my life. I can't help but go off them
Reputation has a big input on the star ratings. If you revisit this in the future, alter the reputations and watch the stars change.
The player who was down the list will likely not played much youth football. So he can't gain a reputation. A player CA88/PA132 would be starting youth football ahead of CA60/PA150. plus the gap between the CA and PA factors in. in the first player there's a difference of 44 ability and the 2nd player has a gap of 90. One player is going to be more likely to get to their full potential and that's also why your staff will rate them higher. Playing the odds.
I have a HSV save where "Glatzel" is like half a professional potential, and he had already reached that, when i played him he played like a worldclass player! 17 goals, 12 assists in one season (as a attacking midfield btw) and now i have the HSV team promoted to bundesliga 1, where he is still cooking!
Once I had a brazilian midfielder called Cícero Herbete on my journeyman save in FM22 (I was at PSG at that moment) who came from the youth system but I never thought he could make it to the first team because his potential ability oscillated between 3 and 3,5 stars and you know PSG can buy literally any player in the world.
But after 4 loan spells he just became a beast. Always was a regular starter during the loan spells, was a consistent performer, high determination and had a model citizen personality.
When he came back after his last spell my assistant manager indicated he had a 4 star current ability. I sold my starter midfielder and just made that kid my new starter.
Since then I never fully trusted the star ratings, but always looked for others indicators like determination, solid attributes even when the player is still at a very young age, how he performs during the loan spells and of course how he develops.
Hi Zealand. Great video! I would love to visualize these results to see how strong the relationships are with CA and PA by star level, and even see the correlation between judging potential and PA. Great wisdom re: using attributes. All the best! Stefan.
Is it linked to position since star ratings reflect your squad? E.g Harry Kane is a 4.5* striker in the team with a potential of 180+. Kusi Asare will never get to that level so they can't say he will ever be a 5* striker. Ibrahimovic, meanwhile, may be 4.5* compared to the best winger which is Sane, who has a much closer PA to Kusi Asare than Kane does and is currently a 4* player.
A decent experiment to test this correlation would be to change Neuer (and the other GKs) PA/CA to 100. And then change a youth GK's PA to 120 (who probably has 2* or something currently.) 120 should not be a 5* player generally but perhaps it may be a 5* player when compared to the GK options currently in the squad.
Great vids bro, really enjoy your content. Although, I was under the impression that the current ability of your best players effect the potential ability rating of youth. For example, on my save Shay Lacey was 18 with a 2 1/2* rating (clearly not true), but I had 3 4* ratings in the first team in the same position. In effect having Kane in your first team alters his chances of reaching that potential, hence the lower star, if Jonah moves clubs with a main striker with a lower rating, the staff would rate accordingly despite their ability to judge potential.
I remember in ye olde FMs couple of years ago attributes had a big impact on CA/PA. The rule of thumb was: if the key attributes are above or below 10. If below - no matter how high PA the player has, he won't be a star player in his role. So I always check player's attributes in my scouts' reports on A+ prospects to see for myself how many of their positional key attributes are above/below 10
I enjoy the variance and mystery within the game - I don’t want to see exact values. You can optimise the fun out of it and the amount of times I see people in the community worrying about EXACT PA values just makes me long for the day where that player that’s being griped over would have been allowed to create his own story within that game world. However, the user doesn’t allow that these days because they’re always trying to optimise the shit out of everything for the sake of the highest integer.
from personal experience of messing around with the editor and also just taking punts on cheap players, this *especially* applies to scout reports of players playing for particularly small or poor clubs. if you see a 16 year old with promising attributes at an amateur club, take a punt regardless of your scout report. it's brought me genuine world class players.
Dont be like a real life Man United, whose scouts veto-ed Ole's multiple attempts to bring a certain Haaland in ...
I've always ignored the stars for the most part. I learned this back in FM14. To pick my players, I simply highlighted the attributes for the role I was planning to play them in, add them together, and whoever was the highest was my guy. My all time best striker was a 3-star player and had a higher number in 8 of the 10 attributes for advanced forward than the 4-star guy.
I'm pretty sure the reputation of the player and versatility also affects how good the stars are.
Videos like this make it so much easier to understand the game. I don't like using editors to find ratings, I prefer vanilla, so this was a massive help. Thanks Zealand 👍👌
I agree with you in that I also like that it's a bit random. I like the fact that I might give a youngster a chance that isn't rated highly but has a chance to become great and then does. I've seen it happen multiple times where a player out ranks their predicted potential (in terms of star rating) and it's always an awesome surprise. Feels like I got a diamond in the rough.
And yeah, you touched on the important part at the end and it's a big part of the reason why I don't use the editor to look up CA/PA: sign players with the attributes you want. When I'm building a team I usually have an idea of what sort of team I want: strong, tall, intelligent players combined with a couple incredibly technical forwards/wingers. I then scout looking for these types of players. I remember signing Lorenzo Lucca on FM22 for Milan even though he had 2.5 stars. Man scored like 20 goals every season for me because he fit directly in the play style I liked to use according to his attributes.
Great video! One thing I think gets missed on potential stars is that I think they also pertain to the best player(s) you have on your team in the position, just like current stars do.
Could it be that Jonah Kusi-Asare is being judged against the ability of the best player in the team in that position (Harry Kane) and that's why his star rating would be lower regardless of actual potential as well?
The minute I stopped deciding the starters on star rating and learned how to analyze a players stats and determine who is better, I actually started winning consistently, it’s crazy how bad star rating can be once you get in to the weeds of a save.
I had several players in my 'excellent' youth intake with PAs over 130. Hiding amongst them, rated as the star of my intake with 5 stars of potential, was a player with 55 PA that he had already almost filled out.
I still use it when looking for my wonderkid regen signings. But in my save im currently at Monaco where Oh Hyeon-Gu and Madueke are both at 4 star and 4.5 star CA when it said 3 star PA for both when i signed them. I feel like form seems to affect CA star rating massively sometimes
Is it not based on other factors if they'll hit the top potential? Things like professionalism and determination too. Ibrahimovic might have much higher hidden stats than the other lads.
I was thinking the same like maybe injury prone might affect it
Yup. I ran a test on my game. A player in my U18's I hadn't really ever noticed. Not great stats, only 3 star. Checked the editor and he was 170 PA, with a good personality.
I first started playing championship manager 3. So, as a super hardcore long term player, I have to say I didn't know that and you were right: it blew my mind. kuddos for your curiosity, zeeland. cheers!
Is there a way to see historical scouting you have done on a player? Like last season this is where we had this player? Other than loading the save from back then?
The star rating PA is still the best way to establish how good a player could get. I think the variables on the ratings are still not significant enough. I would say it's too precise. Don't ignore the stars, just make sure you use the best staff and scout many times and obviously look at the player attributes too...
Was going to comment here ... a cut-and-paste reply here - I dont peek at CA/PA, so I need the star ratings to play. The stars are mostly reliable to me, esp after 22yo. A team of 3*-ers sprinkled with a few 4-5*-ers in the spine can win you the league if you are good. An longtime scout who knows your tactics and recommends a 5* after 22yo? A MUST SIGN. (After 30+ years and now the number one club in Europe maybe the world, trust me, the number of 5* players can be counted by just one hand sometimes.) Maybe it's just my biased opinion, but ... i like to think the coaches considered the TACTIC you used when "star-ing" the players too.
However, most of the players must have good Personality. I swear by Professionalism, but this is proven by so many folks already. Moreover, I play FM20, so the devs likely have not screwed with the star ratings to prevent wonderkids hoarding. *shrugs 🤷♂
@@Chengyuan79I wouldn't agree with that. There are a lot of players with attributes in the wrong places who aren't worth signing even with 5*. I've got rid of a player with 200PA. Also I think people obssess about personality too much. I massively overperform (made last 16 of champions league with a team with a weekly budget of 200k for example) and never look at personality.
@michaelh878 not denying what you said. But after seeing the Meta attributes, just get Pacy and Strong players. Those are the "right-er" attributes. My best SC was a 12 Finishing guy. And, of course he can Head a ball. 😅😅😅⚽️
The odd few players with a "bad" Personality is fine, if they have the freaking ability to back it up. I used to love to say this too - those Dislike-Big-Matches SCs are the ones who scored the CL winning goals for me. 😅😅😅 Over the years, their personality will mold very similar to the squads anyway too.
But for winning and winning titles after titles, IMHumbleO you need a team of Professional players. They can have low-ish Determination, etc, but Professionals are, well, Professionals. 🤷♂️😅
@michaelh878 oops, maybe not have replied to your 200PA guy ... if he has like 18 Pace, he would still work as a SC, AF. I don't look at CA/PA, so I cannot answer if a 200 CA player is a 5* player actually.
And, that's the point - they are not the exact same thing. 😌🙏㊗️🪷
@@Chengyuan79 Yeah he was definitely 5 star. A slowish deep lying playmaker with very high, meaningless mentals. Also had a very high CA striker who I sold to Hertha for 350mil who took them from being champions to being relegation candidates as he was also slow and the AI didn't know how to use him.
Interesting experiment, kinda makes sense when thinking about your video where you explains how many attributes a player might develop over their career. If a 16 year old has the potential of Messi but is currently a 75 current ability, then there is a good chance he will never develop enough to fulfill all that potential.
I'm managing a team constantly in the CL and winning league titles yet whenever I see a 3 star potential dude, I discard without even looking at them. I really need to start looking at every player I scout but it just takes too long.
What I do now is I do 3 recruitment focuses, team reports on the players who appear, scout all 5 star dudes for 1 week UNTIL extensive and then get my best scout to do a final 1 week scout. After that if they are 4 star or higher and have more pros than cons, I try to sign.
Might start looking at the 3.5 star dudes now though as well.
Yes, completely agree the star ratings do have other factors than just raw ability. I have a young Spanish player (Alex Mena) who came through my youth intake with PA as 3*. He made his debut for Spain at the age of 19 and I was wondering what on earth I'd missed. Taking into account his attributes, though - he's awesome. Does make me wonder how many I've let slip through the net now...
I have a 23 years old player that came from my youth academy, he was 4* PA and by 20 the coaches said that he was already at his peak (unlikely to improve), but he kept improving, just out of curiosity I checked his PA with the editor and the kid was at 144 CA with 173 PA
You should do a video on how much certain attributes impact current ability, because some player can have high CA but still be worse then someone who has lower CA but a better spread of attributes.
Can you make a video, about how to read the current attributes. Like, I can’t immediately tell, at what level a player is.
Everyone's been doing those videos about star ratings being unreliable for quite some time now. What I would really love to see instead is a proper video on how to analyse players according to their attributes (and I'm not talking wonderkids here, because most of us players don't have those constantly in our teams, especially while in the lower leagues)
What I got from comments:
- Their stars might be lower than their PA because the coach thinks they won't reach their full potential. Even if their PA is 180, if they are still CA 80 then they have way too much to improve, probably even under the best circumstances they won't be able to reach it.
- Stars depend on reputation. If the player hasn't accomplished much during their academy years and their reputation is very low, the coach will be inclined to think they aren't very good and will under value them. The same happens with over-accomplishers being overvalued.
- Position could also influence the stars. If there are many good strikers in your team and league, the youth strikers may have less stars (correct me if I'm wrong).
- Form also influences the stars. When a player is in very good form he will be valued higher both in CA and PA, so it's possible that hidden gems have low stars because they aren't playing well or playing at all.
I guess we will just have to give everyone a chance to impress then!
Yeah I have Pickford using an old database and he is 1.5 stars CA and PA because he got no game time at Sunderland and Burton but I know he has pretty high PA.
this is so true, there was a striker i signed from mexico who was 2 stars but got 50 goals the season before i signed him, and 20 in the prem in his first season.
Since we do not know the game's PA star calculation algorithm, we cannot clearly say that it affects by CA. because in the game there are personal characteristics, CA distributions according to position, etc. There are many factors, so we cannot say that PA stars and scores can always be the same.
For me most important thing when i am scouting players is that they are not injury probe, and if they are not consistant i look for those who enjoy big matches
The posicion and role of the player is important too, thats why a 150 PA goalkeeper is 4 or 5 stars and a 150 PA striker is 3 or 4
I always calculate the average rating for a role the player is playing by adding up all the highlighted attributes and dividing by the number of the said attributes. Wish I had an app for this stuff in game :)
In my first save i had a winger in the 3liga. Two stars. This guy couldn't kick a ball to save his life but he was the fastest man in Germany and could run at that speed for days. I threw him on defensive winger and gave him a whole side of the pitch. That worked surprisingly well until the bundesliga.
It would be interesting if you compared the players "hidden attributes" (Professionalism, Pressure, Injury-Prone etc). As maybe that has a certain effect to the star ratings too?
You can get players with 200 PA - but if their hidden stats are awful, they never reach their potential, and even if they do, they still do not play to the level of their ability.
Kind of new to the game and watching you and other creators has helped alot I started a authentic save with Chelsea no cash and injury FC lol and managed to get somewhere and win a Europa league so far thanks for the great content
I have persist with 3 star 2 cb in my 10 year campaign with awsome stats. First one consistently pockets haland as he is one of the few cbs with a combination of high pace and str. This guy went on to become my captain and his stars eventually rise to 4
Isn’t star rating also dependent on the position you play players? Star ratings do change when you change a players position or role
Thats a different column, theres “current ability” and “ability in current position” if im not mistaken
Yeah, but in this video what's being shown is the rating on regards to their best role, same when you go to a player's profile.
@@JackDFrost-mb7li the star rating provided in the players best position is also done based on who else is in the team and via whatever coach you have assigned. They can change as well depending on those. I’ve had a 4 star player 1 year suddenly become 2 stars because of all the better players and coaches I’ve brought in
I think it's also about hidden attributes. I guess players with high professionalism, important matches, consistency and versatility might be more valuable. I don't think the stars are that wrong, maybe they are just factoring other stuff we have no idea about.
My take as well. I am pretending that the coaches take our TACTIC (perhaps their biased tactic too) into account as well when giving out the stars.
Because I dont peek at CA/PA, I have to use the stars. At the highest level, they work fine for me.
It was my understanding(and this video pretty much confirms it) that the potential ability star rating doesn't equate to PA, but in fact to CA the player is calculated to reach under the current circumstances. That's why the game has always rated players who have a big difference between CA and PA quite poorly. Doesn't matter if a player has 200PA if all they're ever gonna reach is 140.
It provokes more questions but I wonder if professionalism and ambition (the 2 hidden attributes which have a heavy influence on progression ) impact potential ability star rating?
The obvious comeback is then the PA shouldn’t be a figure the attributes won’t allow you to reach.
I noticed this too a couple of years ago while playing FM15. I was managing my boyhood club in Belgium and I had made them the most dominant team in the league over the last 10-15 years. In the cup I had to play against one of my local rivals who played in 3th division. Because they were my local rivals, I wanted to know what their team looked like and if they were able to climb back to 2nd and maybe even 1st division with their squad. I noticed a Dutch striker who was 16 years old that was their main man in attack. I looked at his stats and they looked quite impressive for a young guy. Scouted him and the report said: potential ability 1.5 stars... So I took my eyes of him until we had to play our cup game. And despite them losing 4-0 to my reserves, there was 1 guy catching my eye yet again. I decided to give it a go an bought him for €75k. He joined me in january and was my 4th striker. The last day of the transfer market, Liverpool triggered the transfer clause of my main striker and paid €25m for the guy. I played in a system with 2 attackers and in the next game after the transfer window, my then 2nd striker picked up a season ending injury. So my 16 year old had to play, no matter what... He made a good first impression with an assist in his first game where he was subbed in. Next game he had to start and scored 2 goals right away. He ended the season with about 10 goals and 5 assists in half a season. Next season I gave him his time to shine and he scored 20+ goals. From then on it only got better and from his 4th season onwards he always had more goals than he played games. Won the European Golden Boot 4 times in a row, got called up for the Dutch national team at the age of 19, became their highest ever scorer. Won the World Cup topscorer title 3 WC's in a row. And won the Ballon d'Or 4 times. I kept him his entire career (until I lost my save file when he was 32 years old). I still miss this guy... RIP Hans de Graaf😢
What I like to do is let my scouts identify players and I watch them grow in the scout reports on my shortlist, if they comeback with another positive report after 6+ months then I check their pa with the editor. I like to think with extended exposure we’ve gotten a better idea of their ceiling.
It’s my game and that’s how I enjoy it.
@5:30 it's cool yes, only issue is in real life you would get much more data, physical with your own eyes data to base opinions on. In FM you obviously don't see any of this, you get a taining score, you don't obviously see how they train, you get a personality type, you don't actually see how they are. In FM you go of raw numbers which makes the random aspect a little less rewarding.
That said it's good that staff members can be wrong and human error is simulated. I didn't realise the range was quite as drastic as this demonstration though but it does explain why last night when searching for goalkeepers why I was getting so confused based upon various factors in the reports I was seeing
In one of my saves, where my squad is completely 175+ PA a 148 PA youth player got a 5 star rating...
I am one of the people that sometimes uses the FM Scout. And last years game, I had on my shortlist a guy with 195 PA, but during his entire career, his CA never was over 180. It was the first time that I saw that in a game. Apart of trainings, would be nice to know what makes some players full fill their potentials, and others (Like the guy I mentioned), not.
As a relative newcomer to Football Manager, i'm now terrified and lost 🤣 my brain is swimming. Are the current ability and potential ability number scores something that should be switched on in general?
In the vanilla base game these are hidden attributes.
You can see them if you buy and use the game editor, though.
Not as intended by SI. But if you feel you want to, do it. If you follow the advice and your eyes (look at the actual attributes, look at how players develop), you can find good players. There will still be mistakes, but that's part of life. If a player looks good for his age.
Also, ask different scouts to scout the player, to get several opinions. Scout them several times.
It requires buying the in-game editor (like £5 I think). Vast majority of players don't use it (or even know it exists) so it's not something that "should" be switched on, but if you think it'd improve your playing experience then go ahead. Play the game the way you want to play it.
My advice is play the game and enjoy it. Learn as you go and fail a couple times. When you start again you'll start getting use to what to look for. Everyone plays and learns differently, it takes time but you'll be a master in no time.
As a new player, I wouldn't worry about this. You can still use the ratings as a rough guide, and as you become more familiar with the game you will get better at noticing stuff like this.
Also, if it matters to you, it's more realistic if you don't buy the editor.
In my save, a scout marked a player with 198 PA with two-star potential. The best player in my team had CA 155.
I think the pros and cons may have an effect. Like for example one of players is said to be unmotivated and doesn't push himself at 15 and that could effect it
An UnAmbitious 5* kid would drop to 2 - 2.5* after 23yo. I can confirm this. Good personality is so important. Many tests were done and confirmed that Professionalism, then Ambition, then Determination, would determine if a player can hit full PA, with the usual development stuff like good training overall and playing suitable league level matches.
Star rating also depends on how useful the players stats are for that position. Eg a CB with 14 shooting may have a higher CA but less stars than another player with better defending stats but lower overall CA
Many, Many years ago in the days of CM 01/02 it was discovered that there were metrics called 'Intrinsic Values' built into the attributes system so that the highest rating was not actually the '20' that you could see on the screen but a hidden number between 0 - 123 ( in the coding system 124 was actually worse than 0 - don't ask) which led to the 'freak' unknown players that everybody remembers. So for example Cheltenham Town's Mike Duff 's Tackling rating was actually a 66 and he was one of the greatest Full Backs of all time while Greek Third Division maestro Anastasios Skalidis had a 115 for finishing and would score a thousand goals at the highest levels of football if you could prise him away from his beloved Chania.....the best scouts in the game would never find those players or rate them very highly and I think some vestige of that is still in the star ratings today.
I had a youth intake one time and one player was a 1.5 star and using the editor i could see he had a pa or 154 in san marino
Just when I thought I’m getting the hang of this complicated game… this spanner in the works comes
I love this kind of content. Please go back and revise some of your old videos like from 2021 and earlier because the ME has changed so much and while the videos are still valuable, they're a bit outdated. I'm sure you have fun making videos about Messis from Fiji or whatever, but please can we have a little more FM content. Love the streams VOD channel by the way
Would be nice if SI explained how it worked
They will never do that, it is deliberate (and that's good). Mainly for it to be more realistic in that in real life you don't really know either.
Please more of these kind of videos!!
could the reputation of a player also affect the PA rating you see? Like, if they are a relative of a great player would it skew the star rating higher? Like for example, I'm managing USA in my save (I was actually offered the job after two successful MLS seasons) and I noticed that Timothy Weah's PA stars were higher than a player in a similar position at a similar skill level. While I'm not saying that he's not a good player, I'm curious if his PA is higher because he is better known?
I think that what your staff does is evaluate the player potential to evolve. Just one ex:
Player 1 - CA 80 - PA 150 - Professionalism 8 - Ambition 9 - 3,5 Stars
Player 2 - CA 80 - PA 140 - Professionalism 16 - Ambition 15 - 4 Stars
And offcourse other skills might be involved too
"third eye opening".-...ehm, did NOT expect that in a FM video, but aite xD
Fantastic video though.
Edit: I first I thought it might have something to do with what kinda position they play at, and maybe what kinda football club they are in general. As I'd imagine Porto would value a defensive player higher than an attacking player, whilst lets say old Lona would rate a guy that could pass for days higher than a counter-attack player. But alas, I guess.
Yeah I've noticed this. I've also noticed that it feels like players are developing a lot more in the youth teams than they used to. Bringing them up early as I used to doesn't seem to work. Now I let them stew in the U19s until they have 2,5 stars or so.
Yeah I used to track CA growth on my players in FM23 and some grew by 20+ points per season so reaching their potential by 17 if used in first team from 15/16. Does seem like they have a higher ceiling in youth teams now (perhaps they adjusted the way reputations of youth teams are calculated) so it is better to keep players there than loan them to 3rd/4th tier clubs but I'd need to test that.
@michaelh878 exactly. Most of my players used to reach their CAP at 19-21 in the last few years because I took them up straight from the youth intake. But this year it just feels like they grow better if I let them spend that first year in the youth team. Wish Z had done some experiments this year as well. But I'm guessing a LOT of videos are going to be made on next year's game.
The personality of the player also plays a role in the potential ability. For example, if the player is a model citizen and a wonderkid, it is most likely to have a bigger potential ability and, therefore, to achive it due to his personality, and also thats why he might get more stars than a player that has more potential and a worst personality
For me this is a realistic feature of our beloved game. It is complicated to tell how good a player will be in the future. A lot of people believed that Dele Alli will be one of England's best players when he was 20 and now he has not played a game of football for more than a year after being loaned out to Besiktas. Haaland was a beast of a striker when he was still 19 and he showed how good he can be when he has still at Salzburg, a lot of big teams had their eyes on him but only Dortmund decided to snap him up. Real Madrid were also looking for a striker at that time but they signed Luka Jovic instead for three times the amount of money Dortmund payed for Haaland.
Do you have training shedules? Do you do individuel training?
Sat watching this having just signed Jonah Kusi-Asare on my Viborg save this morning...
Had the same issue. From what i can observe, most potential abilities don't get fulfilled. i.e. Someone with a 100 CA/150 PA ends up with 140 CA/150 PA meanwhile someone with a 100 CA and 145 CA ends up with 145 CA/145PA.
Hence the reason for the star rating.(Which is varying as CA improves)
If your coaches and facilities are bad then sure. If not 99% of players you give reasonable game time to will reach their potential. Players can get to 140 CA by 17.
I don't know about the newer games but in FM22 the rate of player improvement was in large part determined by Determination, Ambition, and Professionalism. The latter two attributes only visible with the editor. The personality could be scouted, which helps, but it's not the full picture. So, even if you played that player a lot, he may never have developed anywhere near the PA if those scores were low. So you can have a 190 PA player that developed into a 145 because his improvement rate was low. It would make sense that the player's scores on those 3 attributes contributed to the star rating and maybe explain the strange differences.
I think it depends on a lot of things. If you have good coaches and facilities they will nearly always reach their potential (sometimes at crazy ages like 17) no matter what but for lower teams then personality will matter.
How do you see that potential ability score on your own game? A mod?
Thanks:)
The intangibles are the real indicators of the possibility of reaching one's potential.
Traits have an impact as well. Composure and professionalism have a big impact on their training speed. Someone who is more professional and ambitious will improve faster. You can check those in the coach report he will tell you the personality flaws of the player
Damn. I've only been playing FM for a few months now and am thoroughly impressed be all the features they snuck in there.
This is why i have no issue using pa and ca instead of stars, im still on my fm23 save and i just had a youth rb come through with 4-5 star potential in a 'good' youth intake, his pa is 137, 21 points lower than my 3rd choice rb's ca, my regen assistant manager has 20 ca and 19pa judging
I always use determination as a helping stat. High determination makes the potential able to go higher/get fulfilled
I've watched his second channel so much i forgot zealand was an fm youtuber
This is why I rely on the player attribute octagon to gauge overall ability before star ratings. It’s a summary of attributes.
I think this just shows how realistic the game is. I try to go by how the players play. I've had low star guys become some of my best players in a save.
FM20 (still playing) - have a maybe 4.5* PA acad kid who I mistakenly retrained into all midfield positions. It all cost CA points, and he dropped into a 3* CA "average" player by 21yo. Still, because of the HGC ruling, he would always be around. Sadly, except for his Workrate 16 and Teamwork 18, his other attributes were just 13-ish ...
But the thing is, he did really, really well. Maybe I mostly rotate him vs weaker teams (and he plays in the best club in Europe by then, so he doesnt have lousy teammates), but his avg ratings is showing that this is not a player been carried. At his 28-29yo peak, his CA went back to the 4.5* that they said he was 10+ years ago, and also with the exact same lousy attributes, he can start big matches if I so choose without much troubles.
However, the most important indicator seems to be him been called up to the Italy setup despite never been a regular. And, he is reaping the benefit of his versatility at 32yo, where he plays in ML despite not playing any matches for 1 month. He is "just" 3*. But I would argue that a 3*-er for the best team in Europe is no rubbish guy as well.
I swear by stars, because I understand that they are relative to a lot of factors. Once people accepts so, stars became a really good guide, and like you said, actually adds to the realism of the game instead of saying, I only buy players with 17 Pace. How does that translate into real life? The guy can run at 35km/hr? That's my take at least.
I reminder I had a 17 year old goalkeeper at Milan that was really good at 17 but his attribute never went up. So watch out for those player also.some players devolpment meant be almost done, even if they have high potential
Exactly. Personality affects CA/PA development too.
In my Malaga save I got a newgen thru the youth intake named Ivan Delgado, he had only 3 star PA so I never have him any attention, after a few years Barca bought him for his release clause for 35 mill and I thought easy money but it turned out he would become one of Spain’s best players
That's EXCELLENT information, Zealand! Thanks!
I wonder, if that means it's perhaps recommended to just hide the stars in my views... because they can be relied upon even less than I always thought/heard... Any thoughts?
I have a player who is 121/121 PA yet is only 2 star CA and is 3 star PA, so he still has a full star to go and a couple of Attributes to go up but I doubt he would gain anymore CA since that's not how it works
What about role star ratings are they tied to what was described in the video or are they seperate solely based on attributes and role suitbility. Ive seen ca star ratings being different to the highest role star ratings
After playing the same save for over +10 ingame years, I can tell you that: under 18 star rating is a wild guess. It can be a full star over or below where it actually is. As the player gets older, the rating gets more accurate and the best way to improve the star prediction early on is by letting the player play. If you are watching an AI 5 star rating kid that never plays not even for the youth team, the star rating is never accurate.
If you have a 5 stars youth intake that kept his 5 star until 18 playing for the youth team, that's great sign. If you are watching an AI u19 teen who already broke into first team and still is 5 star, great sign.
Still, keep a close eye. If his potential drops to 4 stars after half a season playing regular first team football, you probably should drop him. 4,5 stars is ok, sometimes the game give it to even +180 PA players, but 4 stars 18~20yo playing for first team, 99% chance he will never be 5 stars CA.
There are still a lot of room for the unexpected, but if you are a worldclass team with top scouts and scouting dozens or hundreds of players, going for stars like that still seen more reliable than taking chances with individual players with 4 stars or less before 20yo and playing first team.
I play like this too, except that the kids are always out on loan (and also I buy established 5*-ers from time to time). Won the CL before winning the league, although with mainly 3* guys sprinkled with a 5* GK and 5* MCs (AC Milan has no money in FM20, ha).
Ultimately it's one of the few ways to scout, and it's a good one if we can accept its pros and cons (like everything in life), together with its realism.
I signed a player, a Newgen call Cesar Zarza, when I scouted him he had 3 1/2 star current and 5 star potential, when i signed him he was 2 1/2 stars with 3 star potential. I was not happy, until I looked at his actual Potential ability and its 189. I changed who gives me reports on players etc and suddenly he's 5 star potential again.
I tend to use star rating as a initial guide and then engage in multiple rounds of scouting of those I think have the actual ability to be very good after a check of key stats visually.
Any particularly interesting player then get a nickname associated with their apparent PA (Joe Blogs - 4*5CB) and then watch the change in stats and star rating over time (usually using my shortlists to keep track of them over time).
I'm still quite new so hopefully someone can answer this but is the gold star rating in a players PA the guaranteed level they should reach with the white section being the improvement range on top of that?
Even the gold is not sure, as shown by the video, but the white is unknown even to the scout in game.
would be a fun challenge to try and manage a team with staff that had zero ability to judge player ratings and potential.
It would seem that the potential star rating increases not only if their CA is high but also closer to their PA
I started playing FM for the first time this year and was way too focused on star ratings at the beginning.
I ended up with a 1,77cm Colombian GK with 3 Aerial Reach who was ironically called Niño. He actually did alright in terms of average match ratings so I was able to make a huge profit on him, now Arsenal is always missing out on CL due to him being behind the sticks there lmao
This is like wii play's pool reseting their 9 ball in a slightly random way every time to mimic real life