Recreational vs Sea Kayaks - Pros, Cons & Features - Weekly Kayaking Tips - Kayak Hipster
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- I'm often asked about the difference between types of kayaks. Since I own both Rec and Sea kayaks, I thought this could be a good overview with actual demonstrations of each of their features as well as why each is used in their specific locations.
Please add anything I missed, or any questions.
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#kayak #seakayak #kayaktips
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I can vouch for the above, I have been kayaking white water and sea kayaking for 51 years now, from the Amazon to the east coast of Greenland 2 years ago. I still have my home made fibreglass kayak make for the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho in 1969. We did the Selway and Galatin Rivers after that.
My Expression 15 has been my go to for years now. A great hybrid sea/recreation/touring kayak.
Excellent educational video, concise, accurate, no superfluous comments - a model for anyone who wants to explain complex subjects. Thank you.
Thanks - I learned more about the differences in this five minute vid than in listening to the folks at the store for an hour.
mistersatansir thanks so much for letting me know. If there's anything else I can help with, don't hesitate to reach out.
Find a store with more knowledgeable sales people.
@ZaC kWinz
The price difference between a kayak from a big box store and the same model at a speciaty store is often nothing.
Never assume someone trying to sell you something will properly educate you.
Really Great video, thanks! For anyone really tormented, I paddle in a liquid logic XP9, had it about 10 years now, it’s a great all rounder (compromise), has lots of rocker but a drop down skeg, sealing hatch, low backrest, foot pegs & hip pads. I paired it up with a snap dragon spray deck, it’s been awesome on our choppy (bulkheaded) 5 mile lake, especially when it’s really rough & windy...a lot of fun! Cheers! Ian
Lot of information packed in . Never touched a kayak but keen to try and this was a good start.
Just learning; this was very helpful. Thanks
Great video thanks a lot! I was about to go out and buy a standard recreational kayak but I can see I would have ended up just upgrading to a sea kayak very quickly.
Thank you, very informative. Glad I watched this video before purchasing a kayak. Found it interesting and counter.intuitive that a sea kayak is narrower and better suited for rougher water than a broader one.
It must be true. I'm not half bad as a paddler but i think my Jeannie H saved my bacon a jillion times. Plus the guy I bought her from once answered my question about rough water and high winds this way, "spend less time trying to roll and more time trying to stay upright". I took him at his word. I still can't roll. And my friends have told me that at times I have completely disappeared into or under huge waves or boat wakes and came back upright from the experience.
Good informative video! Thanks for the useful information to those of us with little or NO experience on kayaks!!
Great Advice as always
dismaldog-William thanks! 👍
That was concise, sound advice!
Nice video. I just purchased a stellar s18s g2. The Best of Both Worlds between a surfski and the sea kayak.
Another great video. You rock
Chris cheers, much appreciated!
Excellent video. Not sure if the 22 downvotes are from airheads or egomaniacs, but disregard them as this is a perfect video to share with your newbie friends who are considering which type of kayak(s) to purchase.
grande luke!! gracias por tus videos
buenti gracias, de nada! Un abrazo!
Liked the way you explained a Sea Kayaks, its like something you wear. Much easier to read and counter waves. As always good video and thumbs up from Sweden!
Magnus Persson thank you sir!
Very nice video! Thanks!
Great vid, thx!
very helpful thank you
Considering the backhands, I have removed backbands from both my Kayaks (p+h) and find this no problem when paddling or rolling and a huge help for laying back, re-entering and rescues. It also allows a bit more rotation in forward paddling.
morethan4mph that is a great point. I have two buddies that also paddle without their backbands. I often slouch (which is a terrible thing to do) and the bands help me stay upright.
Helpful video, thank you ... it's worth mentioning, as I am sure you know, some rec kayaks come with styrofoam in the front and the back for buoyancy in the event of swamping ... you can't imagine how many people on forums I have seen talking about how they removed them because they didn't know what they were for and though they were just for shipping ;)
Love your series. Great for Beginners and also some things Intermediates may have forgotten, depending on what type of water they ar paddling. Obviously, you have His & Hers kayaks - yours is the more expensive fiberglass model. Over time, her kayak is gonna look better. Remember the old sailor's rule: "There are only 2 colors to paint a boat, white or black, and only a fool would paint a boat black." Just kidding, I look forward to more episodes.
Grande master ! Quizas falto agregar el ejemplo de los sit in top en los recreartional kayaks, pero muy buena explicacion ! Saludos desde Chile!
Njooy2strong gracias! Si, esta explicación es solo de los sit-ins porque los tengo para la demonstración. Haré la misma comparación cuando tenga acceso a un sit-on-top. Un abrazo!
We have the yellow kayak at the cottage - cheaply made with thin plastic. Not as hydrodynamic as my Sirocco. Was about CAN$400 new. Good as a playboat in calm water, as he says. Seat is uncomfortable for any length of time. One advantage is that it has a pluggable spout at the end for pouring out water.
Concise and informative. Funnily enough, the latest info in UK is that pink is the most visible colour at sea ! I still prefer yellow.
@@happydogg312 No. That's sea blue !
Thanks for all your videos and info. I must object here regarding your characterisation of the rec kayak. I have a small rec kayak (less than 8') and I surf in it regularly and in very rough conditions (winds over 30 knots and waves over 6') usually on Lake Ontario and even have crossed the Northumberland Strait in it. With a cheap skirt (expensive ones won't fit) it is very stable with the caveat that when it goes -it really goes and there is no recovery. I dare you to try for yourself to realise that all kayaks are great fun in most any conditions. I also have a 16' sea kayak but choose my little eco-yacht most often. Cheers!
exactly how stable is the sea kayak?
With paid pilot instruction you could
try the pull of Liquid Force products. See
CZcams video: KITE TENDER, for info. only.
I've done it using a 8 meter NRG and 2016
Response Control Bar-47-56cm . Out of
Metro Detroit into Ohio and back before
supper.
Good Video!!
Great!!
Actually, a skeg and a rudder are both designed to help you maintain your heading when you experience crosswinds or crosscurrents to counteract windcocking. Some (maybe many) kayakers use their rudders for turning but that's not the primary design purpose.
Liquid Adventuring great point. I see mostly paddlers using them for turning, especially those in fast ones - surf skis, etc. So I figured for this short overview, instead of going into details of what is weathercocking and how to overcome it, that most paddlers I see use their rudders to continue using their forward stroke without having to correct for direction or conditions. Thanks for the clarification. Cheers!
Sometimes I would bring up my rudder and roll my Jeannie H up a bit and she seemed to turn a closer or tighter turn. Jeannie H is a Current Designs Sea Touring kayak, 17'-6" X22" with a tight key hole cockpit.
Any chance to see some reviews of kayak sails.
YOU'RE AWESOME
Great video as always. So next video is you rolling the rec boat, right?
Andrew Davenport haha, you know it!
My kayak does not want to flip over! I have never been dumped out of Jeannie H! Never! I never would have believed it if I had not experienced it myself. I have a Current Designs, Soltice, Sea Touring kayak, 17'-6" with rudder, Jeannie H is 22"" wide with a very small keyhole shaped cockpit and foot pegs, I bought her the day hurricane Jeannie blew into Venice, FL on 09/24/2004. I think we have paddled about a little over 15,500 miles within a radius of about 250 miles from Sarasota FL since buying her. Virtually every time I put her in the water I practiced trying to roll her up but not over and turning her on a dime. She goes strait as an arrow in virtually any weather conditions but needs much more than a dime to make a significant turn.
Awesome video. Informative and to the point. It answered a lot of questions in short order. Thanks
Thanks.
You missed the main point for the low seats - you can't easily fit a spray deck to a kayak with a tall seat as they would interfere with one another.
Now this what you missed.
The difference between a flatwater vs sea kayak. I bought a flatwater 14.5 foot touring boat/ship but I'm not going out into really open swells (Georgia straight) vancity.
You're thoughts!
Nothing beats a sit atop fishing Kayak.
Expedition sea boat? Half slice river runner? Playboat? k1 racer?
It all depends what you want to do. Go fishing in relatively calm water? I agree. I live in the coast of the Atlantic ocean. I have a "plastic fantastic" that I had when I was playing in rivers, etc. I also have an 18ft cedarstrip sea kayak (One Ocean Expedition) I use the sea kayak almost exclusively, and would not even think about a sit atop fishing kayak for what I do.
except sitting atop my bed polishing my bishops head
What an excellent video thank you very much. I live up in Canada near Hudson Bay and just have a couple more questions. Can I assume the sea kayak will preform better then a recreational kayak in the great lakes ? And also if I want to portage a kayak just like a canoe to get into deeper camp grounds is that possible with a sea kayak or do I need to camp at a bank on the lake? Thanks again for the quality video!
How do you feel about your kayak having so much rocker?I have a tempest 165 I love it very maneuverable but being that is has so much rocker I feel knowing now,i would of went with a straighter kayak.what your thoughts?
What kayak do you think would work best for sea fishing? I want to minimise chances of flipping over with expensive equipment.
I've got that shirt! Thanks for cleaning, and for the vids. Keep an eye out for me at Sugar Reef.
Kenneth Bolton thanks! Sadly I was not part of the cleaning effort. My friend James had just taken part in it, and we thought it could be a good idea to show the shirt in some of the videos to help promote it. I'm looking to help out next year though. Where are you located?
Next year, yes! I'm in Beacon, NY, and had a decent but short downwinder yesterday afternoon accompanied by three osprey.
Kenneth Bolton fantastic!
Great review. Do you mind if I add this like to my site?
KayakOntario thanks! Absolutely, if you think people will find it helpful, go for it.
KayakHipster this is hilariously a pretty sensitive topic for a lot of people. This perfectly explains it. We have to manage expectations on our trips for safety reasons and this will jelp explain why.
KayakOntario absolutely. Sounds good
How do you paddle even strokes
Luke I have a question for you: On a sea/touring kayak with bulkheads does adding gear on the inside bow and stern areas compromise the ability of the kayak to float in case of a capsize? Is the lb rating set by the manufacturer what will keep it from sinking? Thanks
Jorge R Gonzalez Photography that's a great question. It does not. I don't know exactly how much extra weight you can add, but these kayaks are designed to take a lot of gear and be able to continue to float as long as the hatches are sealed correctly - even upside down. One thing to note, a fully loaded kayak will paddle and handle very differently than an empty one - so if you're planning to do a trip, do a short paddle loaded so you can practice.
Kayak Hipster Thank you for the reply, I have a sit on top now but i’m interested in purchasing an old Necky touring for camping down here in Miami. I just thought that the flotation was coming from the air space which when filled would lessen the flotation. Abrazos de Miami!
Jorge R Gonzalez Photography gotcha. I can't tell how much more it can take while loaded, I'm sure they might say something about it on their website. But for sure, sit in tourers are made to carry heavy loads and continue floating. I've done camping trips where every hatch is filled to the very top with gear. And although it handles differently, it can continue floating, no problem at all.
They just add weight, as long as you don't load them down beyond the manufacturer's recommendations you'll be fine. Consider that the compartments add buoyancy equivalent to their weight if they were filled with water (because they displace that amount of water otherwise). To take a specific example, the dry compartments on a delta 12s provide 330 lbs of effective buoyancy, while the max weight recommended is just 260 lbs, so it will always have a considerable amount of positive buoyancy when fully loaded, even if it was flooded, upside down, and you were on top of it.
Can you do comparison of filing kayaks please
Thanks for sharing guys
Paul 21.03 gmt Uk cheers
and where do you place the touring kayak,typically designed for long journeys?
There are no real official standards. "Touring" and "Sea" kayaks are often used interchangeable.
If there is a difference it's that touring kayaks don't always have perimeter lines but a sea kayak always has it.
Not all touring kayaks have a day hatch, but most sea kayaks do (most) and sometimes even have a 4th very small hatch in front of the cockpit which you generally don't see on touring kayaks.
Sea kayaks might have a pre-made recess in the bow for a compass which is less likely for a random touring kayak.
Sea kayaks are more likely to have a variable skeg rather than a skeg which can either be fully deployed or stowed away.
But these are mostly safety and cosmetic differences, in terms of handling and performance you'll find little difference. Even if you'd assume that sea kayaks are even longer than touring kayaks (and you'll generally find this to be true), there are still sea kayaks that are shorter than a 'normal' touring kayaks and touring kayaks longer than a 'normal' sea kayak.
tl;dr and keeping it as simple as possible.
Sea kayaks are specialized touring kayaks for even longer and rougher journeys. So they're even smaller, even longer, have even more load capacity, and come with safety features guaranteed like perimeter lines.
I’m looking for something that’s in between the recreational kayak and the sea kayak (black and yellow)
Nancy Robles did you find what you were looking for? Im looking for the same
A rudder is a god save when in windy conditions or when fighting a current. Save you from making constantly corrections.
At 2:45 what's that in front of your bulkhead?
Nathan Bonselaar sure. This particular sea kayak has a footplate instead of foot pegs. It is held in place from the sides with rails, and can be moved back and forth to your desired location.
Go the Philippines and you will see open wooden canoes and people fishing everyday in 12 foot ocean swells, diving the reefs and holding their breath for 4 or 5 minutes, walking 50 feet below the water. People just need to learn to swim better here. :)
Great video.
The only thing I disagree with is 5:30-5:40 "a stable kayak is more likely to be capsized by a wave than a tippy kayak". Sorry, but a kayak with soft chines and greater width is more stable (all other aspects being equal) than one that's thinner and with hard chines, and will be less likely to be capsized. Think Current Designs Solstice GT vs Epic 18X.
guitta Dabe thanks! I agree with what you're saying, but this video is a very broad overview, and I'm mostly generalizing. That statement is to compare for example a general rec kayak, let's say an 11 footer (slow, stable), vs a general 17-18 foot sea kayak (faster, will be more stable in choppy conditions). I didn't want to go further than that. No mention of chines, waterline, or anything else that will result in comparisons within each type.
This video was aimed more at recreational kayakers looking to quickly learn more about some pros and cons of rec vs sea kayaks. You know what I mean?
Thanks for the note. Much appreciated.
You're getting into the differences between primary and secondary stability. When he says "a stable kayak" he is referring to primary stability. A boat with high primary stability will feel less tippy but a boat with more secondary stability is less likely to tip over.
what is this , one 16feet and one is 10feet , compear ??
Kayak Hipster Liked the vid. Good explanations. I'm not quite sure yet about exactly how I want to use one. Is there a happy medium between the 2 types? Sort of the best of both worlds. Best, Brian
Brian Russer sadly there isn't one. There are crossovers of course, but not best of both worlds. You get a bit of each world but it doesn't do either one really well. In kayaking, you'll get a boat that does one thing really well, but have to do other things not so well. So it'll be up to you to choose what type of boat you'd want. Cheers!
Brian Russer I personally think that getting a cheap recreational kayak is the best starting point. It helps you figure out how to kayak and if you’re really going to use one. A person can easily get lots of use out of a cheap one and might not ever need a better one.
Couple of clarifications. Long, narrow expedition style kayaks are "potentially" a bit more seaworthy...drum roll please...in the hands of a very skilled paddler. In the hands of a casual paddler, someone for whom kayaking is an activity rather than a sport, the only difference between one of these style kayaks and a gravestone is gravestones are patient and willing to wait to get planted, long narrow kayaks speed up the process considerably. Water rat said, "Nothing, simply nothing, beats messing, just messing about in boats!" To which I'll add, that's only true if you pick the right boat and long, narrow kayaks are not the right boat unless you are willing to invest the time and effort to,pay your entry dues. Second point "waterproof hatch covers" often violate the truth in advertising rule. More accurately they should be called "semi waterproof hatches." More often than not it's a good idea to place items you want to keep dry in storage bags before storing, or at least in plastic bags.
My current Design Soltice Sea Touring kayak hatched stayed bone dry until the tubular perimeter gaskets dried up. then it was replace them time.
Well said boatman222345, "Water rat said, "Nothing, simply nothing, beats messing, just messing about in boats!" To which I'll add, that's only true if you pick the right boat and long, narrow kayaks are not the right boat unless you are willing to invest the time and effort to,pay your entry dues."
I purchased a lifetime Pacer 80 it didn't come with foot pegs or padded seat did come with the backrest and some bungee cords some of it's minor issues that like holes in the bow where the bungee cords go through easy fix I can deal with that but I want foot pegs I've dealt with a seat problem with a small $4 cushion but I definitely desperately want pegs or foot pegs where can we order them how are they named can you shoot me back a message let me know where to look for these I've tried looking on the internet I don't know the term or name they use for them
In my 20 years of kayaking I did about a dozen
self-rescues of accidental capsize. From inches
deep to deeper with no shame. One injury. River
kayaking in Snail Shell Cave under Tennessee.
Capsize came immediately prior to passage
past an underwater speleothem (stalagmite).
Destroyed my primary helmet lamp. Secondary
lighting resources survived. Facial bruises. Off
'sit-on-top' Ocean Kayak.
The difference between recreational kayaks and performance kayaks is not quite as black and white as stated here. Both Point65 and Eddyline recreational class kayaks have hatches and bulkheads. I have never met an instructor who would allow students to be out in kayaks without them. Eddyline Rec kayaks also have deck lines and are set up for self rescue. Check them out here: goinggreentrading.com/Eddyline-C332340.aspx?sid=13881
Kayak Adventures that's a good point. But I do mention in the video that some rec boats do have hatches and bulkheads. I don't mention many of the crossovers an hybrids, but this was just a quick overview of the basic differences between the two.
We need to accept that many rec kayaks without hatches or bulkheads are sold on a very large scale, so I believe it's important to explain how not having airtight hatches will limit what you can and can't do with those types of kayaks.
Lengths of sea touring kayaks??
There's no real definition of a sea kayak rather than "specialized touring kayak with features that some touring kayaks also have".
But generally sea kayaks are slightly longer. They generally start from 16' / 16.4' and larger. Also they're guaranteed to have things like perimeter lines.
Can yu use a sea kayak on lakes
absolutely. But, you should not use rec kayaks in the open ocean.
whatewer you are allowed to use on lake, aircraft carrier submarine etc....
Kayak Hipster can I use an regular sit on top kayak in the open since it not close like the regular kayak you are using? www.academy.com/shop/pdp/pelican-10-ft-challenger-100-angler-fishing-kayak something like this ?
Sea kayaks FTW.
I'm 6 ft.....How long of a Kayak should I get......
mark s I’ve actually made a full video to answer your question. Let me know if this helps! czcams.com/video/uJYX9xzypa0/video.html
Sit inside hull before purchase. Not all
fit everybody well. I'm over 6 ft and had
hull lengths from 7 to 15.5 ft. I could
have had shorter but thought whitewater
play was too splashy for my corrected
vision needs. I like sit-on-top and sea
touring cockpit hulls. Latter carried more
camping comforts. Did 19 miles over 36
hours with adverse tides and Beaufort
Scale winds of #6 into #7 on a sit-on-top.
@@toruko-ishibravo2zulu679I bought my grand kids a kyak and I fit comfortable in them. Thanks. I use it for lakes and rivers. I live near the Clearwater river in Idaho (the United states). Not sure if you're in the U.S.... But I am interested in the sit- on -top so thank you for the information.... Thanks again
You learn something new everyday! So I have a Current Designs Solara 135. A recreational kayak I'm guessing. But you say I am more likely to roll (I've done it twice but NOT on purpose) than I would in a more narrow, "tippy" sea kayak? You lost me on that one.
"Service temporarily unavailable" ??
I assume the hipster is currently in "CHAZ" fighting the good millennial fight but great kayak advice, cheers!
Vendée arti
There is one thing that sea kayaks cannot do, and that is to defend this nation.
Last summer, 2018, was my first time with a kayak, a Pelican Bandit 100NXT 10' sit-on-top.
My third time out on the 100-acre lake at the resort, I was on the far side. I was paddling along, minding my own business, when I heard a strange noise behind me. I circled around to see a WW2 Japanese submarine come to the surface. A hatch opened and a submariner came out and began shooting at me with the 14mm deck gun. I executed evasive paddling maneuvers, and the spray created by the rounds hitting the water about me hid me from his view.
I heard a horn sound and the submariner scrambled back inside. The submarine submerged to periscope depth and I saw the wakes of the two torpedoes that had been launched at me. Since my kayak is plastic and just a few inches of hull draft, the torpedoes could not get a lock on me, so they circled until they ran out of fuel and fell to the bottom of the lake.
I maneuvered the stern of my kayak toward the submarine and dropped three depth charges.
The spray from the explosions was higher than the tree tops.
I knew the submarine had been destroyed when debris floated to the surface and an oil slick appeared.
I paddled to the area and offered a salute to my worthy adversary.
No idea what “hipster” means?
Is it an new word for new generation “hippie” ?
No hate but all kayaks are recreational
Beg to differ. I see them used by my
harbor buoy secured live-aboard hull
owners. To get their kids off to school,
go use scheduled public transit for their
employment, and purchase necessities.
Also, to do exterior hull chores such as
paint renewal of their home or recover
property blown away by windy weather.
GOOD GOD MAN!!!! Can the crappy music and talk SLOOOWWWER! First off, we did not come to your site to listen to what you call music, we came to LEARN. If you talk at 55 mph, you are going right past the newbie, who cannot hear you anyway!
You clearly know kayaks, maybe help the new guys and gals by slowing it down and not entertaining us with that white noise.
Thanks!