Valve is getting sued for $843 million dollars | PirateSoftware Clips
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Thor from Pirate Software reacts to valve getting sued in the UK for 843$ million dollars
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First off, Valve's not the one pricing the games. Second, when developers and publishers got a bigger cut from Epic Games Store, the games were still $60.
Yup. Lets provide a worse service, for the exact same cost on the end user despite how much "cheaper" it is for developers. Biggest issue in the room here is Steam isn't greedy enough to lose market dominance.
@@fireflyredux3373 Except for quietly reversing their decision on blockchain based games and turning a blind eye to abuse of their internal trading card market. Sure they aren't greedy 'enough' because competitors would do the same thing, but I wouldn't mind if people suckled at their asshole a bit less.
Did they also sell those games on steam? That's the whole point of the price parity accusation. Dev's don't have a choice to set a different price on EGS if they're selling on steam.
5:30 The guy constructed an irrelevant example to tear down. It has nothing to do with selling steam keys everywhere at the same price, it has to do with the fact that a developer cannot choose to have a different price on other platforms if they have their game on steam at all.
This means other platforms can't undercut steam with lower prices for less features and less cost to devs. Valve knows that if this wasn't a condition people would be rushing to buy games at competitors.
I would gladly uninstall steam to play the same games for cheaper. Steam isn't where I go for reviews or social interaction, it's filled with features I don't need and don't want to pay for.
Would devs lower their prices on cheaper storefronts? Who knows. Maybe EGS would cut devs a slightly better deal to make sure they sell lower because the devs only care about getting more money, EGS is the one motivated to get more users. But who knows.
All we know now is that steam is costing people who just want to download a game more money so that other platforms can't compete with them on price.
@@nichan008But if Steam does what you want, they will be scammed into oblivion by their competition over the very Steam keys problem he brought up. So... this is clearly done more to prevent the scamming of Steam keys.
@@nichan008 Your basic premise is incorrect. The price parity clause _does not_ force a developer or publisher to match prices on other storefronts, only on the purchase of Steam keys specifically. Unless Epic is selling _Steam keys_ for games, the price in their store can be whatever they want. This is done, obviously, to protect themselves from having to host and support a game being sold for less through another vendor and Valve not seeing a cent from it as mentioned at the beginning of the video; otherwise everyone would host their games on Steam and sell them from somewhere else. Otherwise Steam would have to start charging to create keys in the first place to guarantee income, and that would be an absolute disaster for smaller devs and publishers, would make putting the game on sale "cost" more for said devs and publishers, and could even result in running out of keys on an unexpectedly big launch.
A note on Steam's consumer protection - when Sony pulled the PSN nonsence, Steam would refund anyone from the now delisted countries even outside of their refund window. So Steam really does earn it's trust from everyone.
I actually wonder if that was a policy they had in place previously or if it was new. Like we tend to say, Steam does nothing and wins anyways.
@@heroslippy6666 You can ALWAYS get a refund for valid reasons.
You can get a refund sight-unseen within the official 2 hour/2 week window.
One really has to wonder what Sony’s deal is with blocking all these countries from playing their games (indirectly) by blocking them from PSN accounts… and now that HD2 no longer requires it, I dunno, maybe unblock them all?
Or is it really the case that Sony hates money that much?
yes, Steam has done this particular thing multiple times, i remember a few early access games and mmo's that were ripping players off and steam decided they were going to refund everyone outside the time and ofc ppl that purchased the stuff directly lost their money, Steam really does good by its costumers, i really hope they keep at it.
@@nicormoreno Like that dumpster fire 'The Day Before'
Steam was forced to offer refunds i. Certain countries, so they said, "we'll offer them to everyone, not just the countries we have to."
Yeh Australia for a brief moment remembered the internet exists.
I'll fight tooth and nail so that steam keeps the store page EXACTLY the way it is. It's great to always know where to look for information on every single game.
thats why he said they should at least give developers access to change the borders
But why not allow it to look a bit prettier? You don't need to change the whole layout to make it look nice.
@@dominicballinger6536 customization depending on to what extent can allow exploitation, this is true for games and it's also true for a store page. You can choose where to lead the eyes of the consumer and hide stuff just with colored backgrounds alone.
@@dominicballinger6536 because that's irrelevant; steam is free to design their platform as they please and they seem to prefer function over form which many people agree with.
I think making the pages visually customizable but having limitations on the layout and making sure the proper info is in the correct location each time would be a happy middle ground. You'd still be able to make the page look as good as you wanted and all the information would still be in the same place on each page
These points being brought up in court:
Valve wins record winning 1 billion dollar settlement by doing nothing.
While funny, thats not how settlements work.
Settlements are when the person/entity being sued agrees to terms set forth by the person/entity suing.
At most, Valve could win legal fees from the people suing them, if UK law has provisions for that. And for that to happen, the case would need to get decided in Valves favor, by either getting thrown out, or by Valve winning at trial
@@RaifSeverence I think the joke is that Valve would just counter sue them for slander or whatever and win a big settlement.
Which I have no idea if they could prove any of it is slander, but that's not the point. It's just a joke. That's now not funny because I explained it.
@@RaifSeverence
Funny thing about BG3... Valve has NO POWER to set the cost. UK got glazed by Hasbro.
@@RiskOfBaer No, the joke is that Valve will keep profiting by not changing anything about how they do things
@@iglidor Because they don't need to change anything as the market leader.
meanwhile epic spending millions to lock in exclusivity contracts that are explicitly designed to shut out the competition and they get away with it.
And they lose a bunch of money from it too. They offer guaranteed sales, basically buying X amount of copies up front, and then if they don't sell them all, Epic eats that loss. So devs actually make more money if you ignore the Epic exclusives and then buy the steam release later, since they were basically pre-paid for those Epic sales that never happened.
Not to be confused with "Epic First Run" where the split is 100%/0% for the first 6 months, but that is a thing the devs opt-in to.
@@credge plus the exclusivity deals are typically temporary, which means once the deal ends steam users gets the thoroughly tested (and better funded) end product!
@@credge or you can use the free epic copy to try the game, like an expanded beta, then buy the game if you want (especially if you are buying dlc)
Don’t get me wrong Epic is bad but this does not make something a Monopoly a Monopoly is only a Monopoly if they at least control 50% usually even higher with 70% of the market and Epic doesn’t control that much and exclusive deals doesn’t make something a monopoly. By all definition Steam is a monopoly now I love Steam and they deserve monopoly status but it is a monopoly on online game distribution and that is why this lawsuit can be made it could be alleged that the control of steam in the market forces developers to accept the 30% commission without any viable alternatives. The 30% cut is industry standard by most other companies as well so I doubt that the lawsuit is viable but it’s different form epic games exclusive contracts.
@@Helania12 that depends on how specifically you classify markets. If you go down to the exact product epic has 100% market share of all their exclusives. If you count all games as the same market then it could be 30% candy crush, 30% diablo immortal, and 40% epic exclusive games (as in they literally buy exclusive rights to every game beside those mentioned above) and it still wouldnt be a monopoly based on that requirement
At first I was against valve and getting my games through digital downloads. After everything started going digital download only I decided to give steam a shot. Dude, the amount of convenience and added benefits they offer users is insane. I'm happy that valve was the one that spearheaded a digital service like this.
I am happy they've kept their integrity and maintained the same service even despite virtually getting to monopolize the market. They could've easily turned to aggressive marketing schemes and under the table deals as many other gaming companies have started doing after they gained traction. IGN is a notorious example, among many others.
@@TheSilverwolf97 They won that monopoly by basically getting near perfect on the very first try which is insane.
@@MrBohij I prefer GOG, and I wish there were more platforms that did similarly well, because monopolies always turn sour. But Steam is doing well so far. Too much DRM, though that is primarily on the game publishers, Steam just facilitates that abuse.
@@bramvanduijn8086Usually, things turn sour when the corporation in question decides to go public on the stock market. As long as Valve remains privately owned, they'll likely remain fair.
@MrBohij It was so far from perfect at the first try
They started with the barebones concept and only added features that don't fuck anyone over.
"This Devs a piece of shit. He came to my house and kicked my dog."
Best User Review ever. Very helpful.
Wouldn't even be surprised if that turn out to be a real Steam Review honestly.
Pretty sure this was a meme back in the day
10/10
As a Brit, gotta say, the amount of people thinking the UK government is involved in this just because this is happening in the UK is slightly concerning.
Individuals and groups can bring dumb lawsuits here just like they can in America.
Seeing how utterly incompetent your current government is I think it's easy to see why people would think that. This is the kind of crap you'd expect them to pull off.
to be fair the UK is kind of a joke at the moment, this wouldn't be out of character. I personally find it surprising that such a frivolous lawsuit would get such an article. If this was filed in the US nobody would care, definitely wouldn't write an article. Valve probably gets sued once a day at least
True, but British politicians are absolutely dead set on making sure that the UK voter is distracted by completely frivolous bullshit. They could be taxing the rich instead of the poor/middle class and using the funds to improve the NHS, Teacher's pay/working conditions, aid worker pay/working conditions, migrant worker abuse, transit service, etc. Instead the UK has got to be like the US and obsess about Trans people because despite them being around for forever plus one day, they are now the greatest threat to the kids of the nation.
As an American, don't feel bad. Most Americans are pretty dumb. We don't know facts, just feelings and we love jumping to conclusions.
@@moonasha so it could be true, ,but it's not, so it might as well be, so you are justified in your prejudices? Nice circular logic there. The reason it gets an article is because frivolous lawsuits are way less common in the UK and EU than the US, because the US legal system is a joke everywhere, in the UK or here in the EU
Steam: controller support, workshop, review system, guaranteed refund on games bought 2 weeks ago with less than 2 hours of playtime, community section, forums for each game.
Other launchers: exclusive and free games I guess idk.
GoG has all of this (excluding workshop) and they have a BETTER refund policy.
@@SylvanFeanturi That is why so many are willing to double dip when AAAs come to GOG. But Galaxy doesn't have its own controller framework. It also can't have DRM dependent community features, like Marketplace. GOG has its own niche in DRM free games, they don't need more (other than marketing)
how much money did she got paid to make epic games look good for their bad platform service no back up restore i have do download 50gigs with 50gigs data cap and i have to do it in 3-5pcs, no forum per game, weekly games is the only good thing they have but its not like its all AAA per week, etc
@@SylvanFeanturi Here's something GoG truly doesn't have: Linux support.
@@SylvanFeanturi GoG is missing a lot of games. If it doesn't have games it is shit for the gamer.
Thor wanting to customize his store page is giving me MySpace nostalgia
devs not being able to modify the storepage is a PLUS for me.
i want clean infos.
dont need pictures left and right.
all storepages are similar looking.makes navigating always simple and fast.
and i never need to bleach my eyes.
from customer point, i think its much better like that.
We should never forget that despite the "Valve wins by doing nothing" meme, Steam provides a really good service and that takes a lot of work. Never underestimate the cost and effort required to simply maintain an existing system, never mind adding new features and, crucially for any online service, keeping it secure.
And it didn't start out like this but a constant barrage of lessons learned over the years evolving from a centralized platform for valve games to the most trusted digital store front and library on PC.
"If you do it right, it'll seem like you did nothing at all"
Plus Steam and Valve as a whole is actually making a ton of progress in Linux gaming, which has taken a lot of time and money for what is currently a very small portion of the market. Valve has made gaming on Linux just work, which is something nobody thought was possible beforehand.
@@LazarNaskov Yup, much of that work was then co-opted by Apple for their more recent push for getting MacOS gaming to work.
I will forever stand behind steam as long as they stick to Gaben's policies about being a storefront. If it remains as is (with only improvements towards the store and the user experience itself being acceptable changes) it will continue to be the best and most used platform. There's also GOG but that's more for old/niche titles you can't find on steam anyway.
No matter what happens lads, Steam as it is must not fall. It will tear gaming a new one of we lose this storefront.
Did a little research about the person behind the suit and I'd bet this law suit is more about control than principle. They literally run a business for kids safety. Yes, kids do deserve protections but they're basically a corporate consultant. As we've seen corporate's consultant's idea of safe isn't healthy for many if not all industries.
To me, I always raise an eyebrow when people say they're doing things "for the kids." It's the ultimate moral high ground. No one can criticize you, because then they'd be Pro-Child Endangerment. It automatically puts you on the back foot. Half the time the shit they're doing doesn't even actually help kids all that much, it's just tangentially related.
Ironically, some of the people who are the most fervent "Protect the children" are also the most likely to not actually perceive children as individual people. Could be extremely valuable potted plants for all they'd care.
"for the kids" yeah sure
Sure, but Steam's monopoly on the market is obvious to anyone with a brain. I like Valve, but its fairly obvious that very few companies can sell games without Steam and make money out of it. Thus, Steam continues to be exercising monopoly and ruining other marketplaces. They even had a rule that you cannot sell your game in steam for a higher price than you are selling in other markets. So for example, even if Epic games lower their percentage to 15%, so developers can lower their prices with 10% for example ,they won't be able to sell it on Steam for the higher price, as Steam would delist them from their shop. Thats simply monopoly and as much as we like or hate the people involved, its a monopoly, mate.
Just look at Apple for one. A monopoly isn't a bad thing in itself; same applies to a closed ecosystem. My entire family prefers Apple products than the alternatives. Why can't we be allowed to choose? Because the true monopolists and oligarchs are the ones that want a cut of the pie from leaders have make an honest living.
She's really interested in "child protection" from Steam supposedly overcharging for video games, but no "child protection" when June Goons on Reddit, Discord, or Tiktok come looking for eggs to crack.
"This is going to make headlines and then die."
See, the majority forgets about time after getting headlines existing.
they also forget that the headline existed in the first place
I would hate if every developer could massively customize and change the game page, that would be really annoying for me as a customer. His page on Itch looks really dope, but for literally every game on the platform to do that would be so messy and confusing. Sometimes uniformity is important.
Steam knows exactly what they're doing. If you show customers and devs a SHRED of respect, you get instant loyalty. The bar is so low.
Unfortunately that shred of respect doesn't extend to ensuring your multiplayer games aren't 70% bots
@@ZarHakkar so games that steam didn't make has to ensure that the creators of another game don't allow bots? sounds like its not steams problem.
@@kouta360TB I'm talking about Counter Strike and TF2 here. Y'know, made by Valve? The company that created and owns Steam?
0000@@ZarHakkar
@@ZarHakkar Still sounds like it's a Valve problem and not a Steam platform problem...
I think Steam's store pages being standardized is actually a strength, you always know where all the info is because it's always in the same place, and it's also consistently readable.
They added the ability to add big pictures down in the description and I think that's more than enough customization.
Agree
I agree, the whole "I want to modify the store page" is just a plain bad idea. When he showed his itch page all I felt was "whuh? what parts are relevant? where do I even add the game to the cart? Where are the tags?" etc.
Besides the standardized layout providing better usability for the consumer, there is also the sheer fact that if devs can modify the page too much they are somehow going to figure out a way to scam people with it through dark patterns.
edit: but sure, _some_ more customizability could be nice. Like adding a sidebar with links to other relevant titles and short info of how it is relevant (specifucally: "prologue", "prologue but actually a sequel ala star wars", "sequel", "same universe"/"spin-off", etc. ) - but even that should ideally be user-generated tbh.
there's potential for a bit more customization without ruining the consistency. the page isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't have to stay so cut-and-dry.
100%, having one consistent UX 'feeling' to browsing games is very important, because 'your' game isn't the 'only' game, and if each game does its own thing then it just becomes a mess.
Reminds me of Myspace. Then Facebook standardized and Myspace died.
Not only is this guy educated enough to describe what is going on here, he sounds like Howard Stern while doing it. I see why he's popular
Do people remember when Neon Abyss was free on Epic Games? That version of the game was so utterly broken and some items didn't even work properly and STILL don't work to this day, and it's not the developers' fault as the game is completely stable on Steam.
Headline should read "Breaking News: Karen files frivolous lawsuit against Steam for good business practices"
www.accc.gov.au/media-release/valve-to-pay-3-million-in-penalties-for-misrepresenting-gamers-consumer-guarantee-rights
Sure buddy, sure.
Result should be : Karen forced to pay all relevant legal fees and then face criminal charges for blatantly abusing the legal system in an attempt to damage and/or extort a supremely high quality, law-abiding business.
@@raifsevrence Law abiding my ass. You're allowed to like steam. But they try every conceivable shady business practice they can get away with. And they have been caught doing it. They are far from the moral beacons you make them out to be. I don't know how as a man you can cuck so hard for a company that doesn't know that you exist but would at the same time happily drop you into an industrial lathe for an extra dollar.
I still vaguely remember an interview with an indie dev, who mentioned that after their one year exclusivity with Epic ended and they published on Steam, that they made more money in the first three days on Steam than the entire year before on Epic ^^
Do you remember which game?
@@rakionyellowmind2293 Im afraid not...
@@rakionyellowmind2293 it doesn't really matter. Similar shit happened to Borderlands. They released on EGS first, then released on Steam and had bonkers money.
@@MrDarthImperius didn’t know that
@@MrDarthImperius I thought borderlands came out for console first?
>Born in UK
>Go outside get stabbed
>come home steam is banned cause of lawsuit
part and parcel
You forgot ">Blame the rest of Europe, and immigrants"
@@Arbaaltheundefeated I mean the second part is true though they are beasts
@@Klonkus Comparing immigrants to animals... Classy. "Tell me you deserve it if you get stabbed without telling me."
@@Arbaaltheundefeated Keep proving me right.
@@Klonkus > be a brit in 1950s
> decide that your 3hitty island country needs cheap foreign labor to compensate for manpower shortage after literally obliterating your male population in both World wars.
>go through economic downturn through out the cold war due to bad policies and layoff your naitive workforce for cheap foreign workforce cuz of greed.
> be a brit in 2010s-2020s
> decide for no reason at all to leave the EU and blame it on immigrants
> your already none existing economy starts to evaporate
> blame it on immigrants
> COVID-19 happens
> blame it on immigrants
>Nato prepares for war with Russia
>'sooo ummm immigrants can you fight for us'
if there is a problem, blame it on immigrants and ignore it till it blows on your face, and obv blame it on immigrants.
They should be going after EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Cloud Imperium, Rusty Trombone, Unlimited Rice Pudding, Et Cetera, Et Cetera
Honestly I'm surprised no one has gone after Nintendo. They still charge manufacturing costs on digital downloads. Nintendo Games have always cost a little bit more bc the physical copies cost more to make, which is fair tbh it's not a lot, but they keep the price the same for digital copies as what they sell the physical copy per unit to vendors/store.
They went after Microsoft. They caved in. The UK isnt exactly good when it comes to these things and ever since they left the EU they are pretty much ignored as a whole anyway.
@@AceThe1AndOnly Probably a case of Nintendo overcharging their prices everywhere rather than just certain countries. In the end they can charge whatever (and one reason why I ain't buying Nintendo stuff unless its from a third party that tries to get rid of stuff that refuses to get bought basically. Their prices are a joke.)
@@Surtr174 I mean Nintendo games are pretty pricey so I don't blame you, I don't buy unless it's on sale, but it's not a case of Nintendo over charging. It's bc the switch and DS cartridges cost more to make than a CD, which is factored into the cost. The issue is that digital copies cost the same as what stores pay for physical copies. Verified retailers do get discounts for bulk buys, Nintendo does set a fair market price for what they think it's worth and it does sell.
I'm not a game dev, but after looking through the Features section of the Steamworks documentation I completely understand why developers choose Steam despite its 30% cut. Game assets distribution, matchmaking, mod hosting and distribution, achievements, leaderboards, DRM, microtransactions, Inventory service and marketplace, anticheat, all the Steam Overlay features, family sharing, remote couch co-op, cloud saves...
There's a lot.
Just remove the anti cheat from this list, their anti cheat works more like a blacklist that is easily circumvented.
@@FredDufresne it still works better than nothing, and as a nice little bonus it's not a rootkit that compromises the integrity of my computer, like most other popular anticheat solutions.
@@EmberQuill True, but it doesn't actually do anything to prevent cheating.
@@FredDufresne It's designed to be a very slow and manual anti-cheat, so even with developers throwing all the various signatures into it, it can't in anyway keep up in today's market of F2P games considering creating new (Steam) accounts have been automated.
@@FredDufresne like all those root key anti cheats do anything? All they do is compromise your system and they don't even stop cheating. This is the problem with service games. Bring it back to server games let people host their own servers and cheaters get banned quite fast it was very effective in the old days. But you can't stop these people from cheating even with draconian measures That's not how it works. If you make a smarter system you just make a smarter criminal.
thor going from "go make games" to "go make game stores", and its the funniest stuff ever
He did go "go make game engines"
Don't forget "Go make game publishers"
Hey, there's someone taking what he's saying to heart and will do it. There's enough people and resources at this point. Might be a decade, but it'll happen for sure.
I mean, we do have a lack of good game stores beyond Steam and GOG All of the are others plain garbage. EGS for starters is a UI/UX nightmare...
@@shawnatic lol he specifically advised not to make game engine, no reason to do so unless you have a specific goal and the patience to keep the engine updated.
I personally like the standard overlay very much, it means games travel more by word of mouth than flashy art.
Oh my god who knew that when you respect the customer you get bank how many times do we have to teach these control freaks that lesson
but that bank is like forever from now! if i run my company like a souless asshat i get money NOW!!!!
steam's existence prevents more loss to pirating than they make off the cuts of hosting the sales. they are exactly what they set out to be - a solution to pirating by providing a better service than pirating.
YES! I'm from country that had piracy as a national tradition. The first moment anyone get some money to actually buy games they buy it on steam because it's just more convinient
@@user-hq4hj4kl9q Innovating / ressurecting niches Indies and non triple-a devs deserve peoples hard earned money the most. Everyone else is a case by case system IMHO
Yes very true, steam gives us an opportunity to enjoy and install games more easier than pirating. Hell even thier offline feature is really optimized. Try going offline in any other launcher,
Wouldn't really say that steam is good at anti-piracy, at all.
Fun fact, an EU report found that piracy in the game industry is a net benefit as a whole. The report is titled "Estimating displacement rates of copyrighted content in the EU." Except, the EU was in the middle of their anti-piracy crusade at the time and when this one part of the report went against the narrative, they tried to cover it up and very quietly release the report instead.
For anybody unaware of the 30% thing, it's industry standard for all the big platforms. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony also take 30%. It may sound like a lot, but it's absolutely worth it for the sheer volume of sales you get on those platforms compared to others.
For the vast majority of developers (myself included), Steam accounts for 90%+ of pc sales. It's genuinely insane.
(It may also be relavent to mention that after a certain revenue threshhold, the 30% drops to 25%)
it's nuts that valve got sued for this. steam gives FAR MORE for their 30% than epic or sony or whatever.
@@KB_13247 To be fair, Epic takes 12%
@@KB_13247these guys sued sony last year, the reason was the exact same word for word
This feels more like everyone else upset steam respects players over companies like what happened with helldivers 2 and such.
this happens when someone over reach their position for a child and safety officer , she has no knowledge of 30% industry standard cut and did not know those free service valve offer is the 30% cut and most likely she did not have a steam account or talk to people who used steam and other stores
I once complained in the forums that it was 2018 or something and we still didn’t have tabbed browsers. I did some work with the beta testing client, then eventually I went to middle click on a steam window and it opened a new window. Someone at steam read my salty comment and implemented tabbed windows into the client.
You fucking genius. That has been a nice change.
I remember total biscuits, called out steam for a lack of QOL features, very few weeks later they added everything he criticised. gabe is amazing.
I'm curious, what were those features ?
@@VictorB-jn4yo One was the volume on the videos, i can't remember the rest I was a kid at the time.
"They are bad. They are evil. They are charging money. They ripping money"
How?
"Eeeeh"
"They're bad because they don't treat the customers like absolute dogshit like the rest of us. It's making us look bad!"
@@megamangos7408 You forget that she's a CEO of a company selling helicopter parenting software for people who don't want to have healthy boundaries between them and their child. Typical "games r bad" type of person.
@@aminjeanbredimus7157Ah, I know that kind of people. Got it, they’re on a watchlist now.
capitalists when their competitors are making a profit by providing a better service then them:
People forget that every time you download a demo or get a key for a game from somewhere else that Steam pays for that bandwidth to download it on their platform. Anything you do on Steam that you can't do in offline mode costs them money. They're doing a pretty good job.
I’m not steam user but i have been using like a shitload of mods down loaded from Steam Workshop. And I’m fucking grateful for that.
doing a good job for comsumers and they still make billions in profits.
why cant other companies be like this
Case in point: I bought a Hell Divers 2 key for 30% less somewhere other than Steam, activated it on Steam, and had 75GB downloaded a few minutes later through Steam. I was playing the game on Steam a short while later.
Man, I feel so ripped-off. -_-
Funny about the suit about 30%, while the percentage that the law firm will take from any settlement or judgement is higher. IIRC it was 40%.
Another point of value: Steam also has a worldwide distribution of in-person payment options that is definitely not free to run. But consumers can, if they want to, use cash to purchase steam wallet funds that they can buy games on steam with.
Poker night at the Inventory was delisted many YEARS ago, but I still was able to download both of the games last month because I bought it through them a decade ago, yet shit like ubisoft would delete my entire library if I don't log into it each year.
Bro… Ubisoft is just cancer. They screwed me over so hard. I won’t ever play another title they publish
Same with all the Unreal Tournament games. When EPIC launched their store, they made the whole Unreal series exclusive to their platform, yet all of it is still available to play through Steam
Oh that's what happened to my games..... Huh I knew I bought some stuff from them.... Ayyyeee I still got games from 16 years ago where they just wont work and the publisher is dead and I can still download them.
Poker night at the inventory got delisted? wtf?
@@Taolan8472 im pretty sure it was because of licensing issues with both poker games
I'm a Steam user for 15 years (Started using in 2009).
I
N E V E R
had a single problem with Steam.
FIFTEEN YEARS as a user, NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM.
I can't understate how massive that is.
I also used Steam for a long time (I forgot when I started) The only few times I had a problem with Steam is when they doing their UI updates to their launchers, where Im annoyed at the new changes but slowly coming over it as I learning the new changes
@@Danspy501st yeah, that's just being not used to change which i think is natural
dang it's been 15 years here too, and same, few refunds here and there but no issues
@@LoraLoibu Yep. I dont like when UI changes alot over the time. Like a massive UI change from one day to the other. But I had grown use to it with time. The same goes with other places, like CZcams and such
@@LoraLoibuit's not just being not used to change. Sometimes the change is legit bad for function even if it looks nicer.
I still miss old steam UI and it annoys me because it was super efficient.
This is years post post change where I'm completely used to the new ui.
Saw a bunch of comments in the live chat about this, but yes, EGS DOES have keys. But they allow the platform provider to automatically connect the purchase to your EGS account, so you share you EGS account with the reseller and the game is automatically added to your EGS library without the need to input a key. It's the same functionality as a key from the consumer usage standpoint, but with the change of needing to provide your EGS account info to the reseller.
That's how EGS does third-party sales?
Woof. No thank you. I'd rather enter in every single steam key for a hundred piece humble bundle than unnecessarily expose my steam login to risk like that.
@@Taolan8472 yea, it functions as basically an API call that opens up an EGS widget, so the reseller should never been in possession of the actual login information, but it's still a security risk compared to user managed keys.
"STEAM IS WINNING BECAUSE THEY ARE A BETTER BUSINESS" 100%
The fun part about this lawsuit is that when it inevitably fails, the plaintiff is going to have to pay Valve's legal costs. That's baked into the UK's legal system. It's not like the US, where you have to ask a judge to compel the loser to pay your legal fees and the judge can say 'no that's not warranted,' the UK requires this out of principle to cut down on frivolous lawsuits.
But it still clog up the British legal system.
It's still fantastic though, because the fucking MOMENT it fails, everyone is going to stare at the asshole in the back of the classroom that caused it in the first place.
Yeah they have some nice stuff like that, it's a shame they also have to deal with the clown laws like 'hate speech' and burglars getting to sue homeowners if they suffer an injury on the property of the person they're robbing. One step forwards two steps back.
@@paulmaartin yeah still a waste of money and time that could have been spent on actual crimes.
@@paulmaartin How much worse can it currently get for the Brits?
well the other thing is, if they won somehow, valve could simply stop providing services to the UK. web services have been selectively blocking countries based on their various regulations for years already, i think the UK more so then others due to their excessive laws around privacy mainly.
She is a consultant so she is creating a legal precident so she can point at it and say look at this terrible thing, we just so happen to sell a solution.
It'll only be a legal precedent if she wins the case. Even if they settle, it's not going to be usable as legal precedent since cases that are used in that way require a court decision to be made.
This sounds like a braindead version of Sweet Baby, and they are already at a level I'd wager completely braindead.
@@mulligatawnyIF the UK courts are not batshit insane socialists...
IF they actually care about the law. Lawsuits like these are political moves for monetary gain. The supposed "victims" wouldn't get a dime if the firm actually won...the Firm would. It's just predatory litigation that's just neverending. It's so bad that lawsuits are regarded as business expenses...just to fight them or settle.
Valve did absolutely nothing wrong here and still will be out of several thousand dollars in legal fees. The punishment isn't the lawsuit itself, it's the process. It's why I just detest legal firms suing for the sake of suing.
I prefer having a preset art design to the steam store and allowing a small amount of customization. it keeps the theme without people making an absolute mess
“We had CD keys back in the day”. Well that made me feel weirdly old
You want to feel old? There was a time we DIDN'T have cd keys, and some of those games didn't need the disc in the drive to run.
Valve is the major investor of Linux gaming - for the first time almost every PC game is no longer locked to Microsoft Windows thanks to Proton. That in itself is huge.
Is it so they don't have to spend $10 for Windows keys for steam deck? Probably, but it's still a multi-million dollar investment into something they won't see direct profit from apart from the very small chance of keeping Steam alive if Microsoft decides to kill Windows.
When they got started, Microsoft was experimenting with variants of their OS which only permitted installing applications purchased through the Microsoft Store, so there was a potential threat to Steam. The "Steam Box" may have been a failure, but it was the kind of failure you could learn a lot from - and one of the major lessons was "if Valve wants this contingency protection, Linux needs better support for Windows games."
@@DanaOtken and from what I can tell Linux is managing to catch up on Windows to be better for gamers than Win 11
@@Voron_Aggrav What you hear is wrong then. I play plenty of games on Linux, mainly through Steam deck, but it's still NOWHERE NEAR the ease of use and reliability of Windows. Not only when it comes to games either, just in general the user experience on Windows is still massively superior, which is saying something considering Windows only keeps getting worse when it comes to that with each iteration.
Unless I have no other choice, I would still rather use Windows for anything, and definitely for video games. Linux has made massive strides, and compared to how gaming was on it not so long ago it really is a massive leap. But let's not kid ourselves, there is still a VERY LONG way to go.
Proton is absolutely not about the price of windows keys. Windows as a "console" is absolute hot garbage.
Look up any review comparing the Asus handheld to the Deck. Literally every single one of them is praising the Deck's OS _because_ it's custom made.
This cannot be done with Windows in any way, shape, or form.
@@Voron_Aggrav Not really.
_Many_ games play just as well as on Windows, but:
- some have very significant performance problems (e.g. Dragon's Dogma 2)
- some have problems with mod support (e.g. Civilization 6, which is even a native game)
- some of them need quite a bit of tinkering to get right (e.g. Batman: Arkham Origins)
- some of them straight up do not work for no reason (e.g. Persona 5 Strikers)
- many of them don't work because of anti-cheat (e.g. Valorant)
And there are _very_ few cases where the experience is overall better on linux. Almost everything takes just a _tiny_ bit more resources or more hassle.
This is offset by the Deck's OS, but not on Linux in general.
This is the legal equivalent of a hit. Hoping the courts see it that way and give Valve the W they deserve.
Steam has been winning this stupid lawsuits for the bigger part of the last 2 decades, so expect them t win this one as well
Ya I find it crazy people trying to use consumer protection laws to promote a worse consumer experience
It´s very counter-intuitive. And it hurts the overall consumer. Valve is just going to turtle up and make all kinds of precautions after this. You liked to be able to buy steam games in the UK? "Sorry about that, Steam is no long available in your country" (Just an example)
Nope. Steam still allowed for price gouging despite not being the ones that did it and price gouging is illegal/a crime.
@@ANDELE3025 please explain to us how steam is allowing price gouging.
Valve is literally genius. The store is better than any other launcher, the reviews are better than any other launcher, the library is better than any other launcher, the profiles are better than any other launcher. The only thing steam is missing is to be a proper competitor to discord and they would literally be perfect in my eyes.
Valve is the only company with all the power in their area and aren't abusing it
They could do anything they want, we dont have other better options, but they still do everything they can to make things as good as they can for gamers
As one of the 14m uk gamers, I don't feel ripped off at all.
But don’t you see you are getting ripped off ! You are forced to to use one website with all the functionality you could ever ask for (including live streams, messages and VC) instead of a baren, badly optimized and content devoid website !
Excuse me, @@reaperking2121, Epic is not devoid of content! It has a few exclusives sometimes!
Out of all the companies to go after. Why go after one of the few honest ones? Go after Ubisoft, go after EA Games, go after Activision. Theres literally so many shitty publishers to go after for scummy business practices. Don’t bloody go after one of the few people doing things right for fucks sake.
It's because they're decent that they're gone after. The other companies are likely bribing in that lawsuit.
Steam is not a good guy. They do the same shity trick as everyone else, by renting games and pretending it's a sell. They are as anti-consumer as anyone and they are the people who invented this shit.
I think you answered your own question.
Because the shitty ones are the ones who hire the lawyers who are willing to protect their bullshit.
Because Valve won't send the Pinkertons to your house if you sue them.
The moment steam offers creators to edit their own store pages, they will never be replaced.
i used to love steam as a gamer, now i love it even more as a indie dev.
People said Valve was evil. Then Epic came along and proved just how moral Valve really is.
Literally brought a 90 dollar game on the epic game store and it didn't even appear in my 'owned' list until three days later. and that was after I sent an email threatening to report them to my countries consumer watchdog
Spoiler alert: neither of them care about the consumer.
valve is about as un-evil as any profit seeking company under capitalism can be
Nobody says Valve is evil, except a couple in UK.
@@bryymiller2475 I honestly don't think Valve cares about us. What I DO think is that at some point Valve realized that treating the devs and the customers well made their business explode, so they're gonna keep doing that. It is in their best interests not to be assholes and they know it.
Lord Gaben just sits there does nothing and wins again.
Steam is the Luigi of the PC marketplaces
They win by doing absolutely nothing
😆made me laugh omg
The day we lost Gaben is genuinely one of the biggest fear ever for PC gaming
@@AHappyCubi almost had a heart atack when i read "lost"
@@AHappyCub You don't need to worry. Gaben has already selected one of his sons to succeed him once he dies, and his son shares Gabens ethics and vision of Steam.
I don't think a lot of people realize how good steam really is, I was shocked to remember that epic games straight up doesn't have a reviews section other than those for publications. Wow
Very well said. I got emails trying to get me to join that lawsuit and I noped right the heck out of that.
Take it from someone that was around before steam, it’s a pretty darn good option.
I guarantee you, we will one day look back at Steam when its gone and have massive nostalgia for the good times we were living in. Steam's existence isn't guaranteed, and we're frankly insanely lucky that the other mega-gaming publishers are so shitty at what they do that we don't currently live in a greedy publisher hellscape.
Well, Valve is still privately owned, which plays a crucial role in its strengths.
Let's hope it stays that way
Yup. Just look at what happened with video streaming. When Netflix was the only one, it was cheap and everyone was happy and piracy nearly died. Then everyone else tried to get in on it, everyone (including Netflix) hiked up prices and screwed consumers who paid more and more for less and less, and piracy was reborn. Steam could do this, too... so far, Valve has been wise and learned from Netflix what NOT to do to keep their empire on top. One wrong move - one bad CEO or board meeting with greedy investors - and it could all crash down. I certainly hope they never stop listening.
@@RetroMaticGamer Well, it was Netflix for cheap, and free stuff elsewhere, like CZcams, BBC, Discovery Channel, etc. All the stuff that was free is now using the Netflix model (well, CZcams still has the option of watching ads, but the ads are getting pretty out of hand, especially if you're trying to scrub through a video).
To me, PC gaming isn't PC gaming without steam. It's like windows, it's always been there. It's always one of the first programs that I install on any new computer(assuming it's meant for games), and don't even get me started on my steam deck. Love that thing.
Indie studios is why we don't live in a greedy hellscape, they know if they go full greedy most will just stop buying from them and go full Indie 😂
"what about 12% Epic cut?" would be a valid argument when Epic launcher starts making money. It's been 6 years, and they are still in the red.
Edit: so many people claim that EGS sucks... Yes, I know that. I was making a point, that 12% model wasn't proven to be financially viable.
They're willing to shovel out billions to try to undercut Steam but they really just don't understand that they'll never get better because they just don't offer the same service, nor do they show any signs of improving.
No one want to use the Epic games launcher.... its a buggy, laggy mess.... i got fiber internet, Ryzen 5, 48gigs of memory and a 3060..... still when ever i open Epic games i lag so hard it feels like im trying to launch it from a calculator....
@@rogerelzenga4465 what's even worse is they tie it to using Unreal.
UE5 isn't a bad engine but it's fucking frustrating to have to download.
That fortnite money tho
@@michaelmarsh1723 don't forget about unity money.
Also, steam's refund policy is almost aggressively over consumer friendly.
Thor wants game pages to be myspace...
oddly, i do think the steam store pages being so barebones as being more consumer friendly than a highly customizable page. with a simple store page the consumer isn't overly bombarded with images and or marketing schemes, making it easier for the general public taking in the important info like if the reviews and are in the bright red text. then with every store page being very similar people actually have to compare and be critical about which game to pick... beyond going for the one with the shiny outlines.
It dwfinately have advantages and disadvanges
It is *absolutely* more consumer friendly. And Steam makes it very easy to see if you have to sign up for a third party account, and what kinds of multiplayer/controller support there is - unlike most other storefronts.
@@zed4210yeah they've always been very clear about it and in a recent client update shortly after The Helldivers Incident, they became Even More Clear
I just noticed, that's the ultimate proof that Steam is not going for max profitability. Know all these marketplaces, where you can pay money to be at the top, have yellow or red outlines and be shining? It would be so easy for Steam to make even more truckloads of money, things we see with all other large companies, even if they are extremely wealthy, the last percent has to be squeezed of money. Not on Steam. Each game has the same design and visibility in the store. The only way to get seen is to have sales.
I agree. I like the store app because its uniform, doesnt change every 21 minutes, and the store is pretty much the same, the game has to sell by itself and not by the "ads placed in the store"
Glad gamers arent defaulting to hating the big company (Valve) and actually paying attention to how this lawsuit makes zero f'ing sense. Steam has is market leader cuz they earned that shet, and thats something other greedy companies cant stand.
Well, yeah. Steam is good for the customers, so customers are more likely to defend it. Most other companies will screw over their customers, so customers are more likely to hate on it or simply not care when someone/something else is hurting them.
So is your argument that things will remain this way in perpetuity?
@@gothpunkboy89what are you talking about?
@@gothpunkboy89As long as Steam continues to do right by its customers, then they'll have good reputation and the fans will fight to defend it.
@@izzy3120 You are assuming things will remain the same forever.
valve teaches the world a very important lesson:
sometimes. Winning is not about being better than your opponent in every single angle.
Sometimes. Winning is about NOT losing. NOT shooting yourself in the foot. NOT losing momentum. just keep pushing and don't fuck up
I mean, at this point, they *could* fuck up and still keep most of their customers, because nobody wants their game library spread across multiple platforms, and we have no right to say "Actually, I'd like to transfer my game licenses from Steam to CompetitorX".
We probably *should* have that right, but digital marketplaces are still a pretty new thing in the grand scheme of things, so Valve will have a huge first-mover advantage until people start to realize that our media licenses should be fungible. That would make for a more level playing field, and allow smaller competitors to actually compete.
@@RickYorgason That's actually a really interesting idea. but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen any time soon, so until then, valve gonna keep getting my money
Steam gives devs access to servers through remote play together, forums with full moderation by the dev team *and* steam staff, ability to open steam workshop for your game which is literally just a built in modding client, exceptionally forgiving refund policies, and regular (developer optional) sales to promote more business. What do they ask for all that? $100 upfront and 30% of sales which for most is industry standard, with the ability to negotiate lower for exclusivity and a lower percentage for higher grossing games. And you get to keep all of those features even if your game never makes a single cent. Valve is far from a perfect company and absolutely do a lot worth criticism, but the reason they're so market dominant is because their service is straight up better than most of the other alternatives
4:30 actually, I had a dev ban me from his Discord and the game's Community Hub for leaving a negative review saying "its not quite there yet and overhyped". Being banned from the Community Hub of that game means you cannot properly access mods in the workshop anymore.
What game is it? So I can avoid it
Yeah name and shame them
His point still stands though, he might ban you, but you have the ability to leave an even harsher negative review, highlighting what happened to you and spread the word about it. Just the fact that we can leave reviews and they are EASILY accessible, is already a big plus.
@@gordyla10 Except if you leave a negative review for things not directly related to the game, steam will try to auto filter it out for anyone who hasn't explicitly opted in to see "unrelated" reviews. If the best case happened of lots of people leaving negative reviews over it, steam starts to delete reviews due to them being "unrelated to the game." I love steam but it is very much publisher friendly over player friendly in this case.
@@oldred890 I will simply point out that Steam gets the overwhelming blame for this, but Publishers and developers do have access to reviews on steam, specifically to take reviews and put them up for... well review for lack of a better term. And Steam does generally take their sides when they do this and take the reviews down or mark them as "irrelevant". But to my understanding, Steam doesn't really do this unprompted. They need to be asked to get rid of reviews.
plot twist:
the guy whos sueing them is a TF2 player, and its all made just out of spite
If that was true I would understand their hatred lmao
@@flarebear5346I wouldn't. Because it's obvious why Valve is neglecting TF2. Valve is a Company of Inventors, not maintainers. They are done with TF2. It's almost 20 years old. Valve likely never intended to pay attention to TF2 for as long as they have. They are singleplayer game developers first and foremost. I doubt DOTA gets a whole lot more attention than TF2 does. But this last bit is just an assumption, not backed up by data, as I have absolutely zero interest in Dota and thus know nothing about it.
@@TheAwesomeArtofWar You're spitting facts. Valve needs to rip the band aid off and shut down the central servers and just create a bridge to custom servers. If you love TF2 so much pay for a server, it's better than paying for a hat.
@@TheAwesomeArtofWar Valve is a Company of Inventors riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
when was the last time they Invented anything new and unheard of? don't say steam deck or Valve Index because it ain't anything we haven't already seen before
when was the last time they made a new IP? sequel / spinoff don't count
@@itsnouse-yourswillbeastill2562just wait for their new game
You forgot the mod workshop. It's a nice feature to have the ability to mod games and not have to manually do it yourself.
Okay...just because Australia did it, doesn't mean that the UK can do it when the price and refund issues have already been addressed. It's still annoying when you purchase that game that's just been released, and hasn't gone on sale, and takes the best part of a day to download, and before you've finished downloading it, the return window is over--or the tutorial takes hours longer than the return window---but on the flip side, digital distribution means that when the PC conks out, or the hard drive is full, all the games purchased can be re-downloaded at any time, so it really balances out in the consumer's favour.
My only fear from Steam as a dominant market leader, is if they go Public.
Doubt that they'll ever go public. They are already making bank.
gabe would NEVER let that happen
Honestly, I doubt it.
From what I've seen, corporations going public is usually a desperation move due to not being able to make enough money themselves
As long as Gabe is alive, he will never let that happen. When he is not however, we can only hope that his successor will keep their promises.
Valve was screwed over by stock market sharks back when Sierra was the publisher of Half-Life. They saw what that kind of investment scheme did to Sierra. It's unlikely that they'll go public so long as there is anyone in charge that remembers those days.
Can anybody explain how the steam 30% cut makes them a monopoly, or how it hurts the consumers? I actually don't get it. People always bring it up, but how is something that 'hurts' the developers rebranded into hurting competing companies and consumers? The ones claiming to be the victims are the 2 groups of people it doesn't apply to.
it really isn’t but people are mad that they are so successful and that their companies aren’t so they’re doing everything they can to shut steam down, not realizing if that day succeeded the PC gaming market will completely shut the fuck down and will never recover.
Steam is a monopoly in the fact that it is the entire PC gaming market and if it fails, PC gaming will take decades to recover
It hurts consumers from the standpoint that Valve could use what is effectively a monopoly to really screw devs and their customers.. I can't speak for the devs, but in my opinion the two worst things Valve has done is to leave Half-Life on a cliffhanger because they got bored with it and having forgotten about TF2 for a couple years. I don't feel like anything they're doing is anywhere close to leveraging their monopoly to screw their customers.
I do fear what will happen when Gaben inevitably leaves.
@LordKore you assume that isnt the point. Alot of places pushing hard for removing customers rights especially on ownership and privacy these days.
@Kandralla It's a very rare example of a 'natural monopoly' that isn't needs based. Something like a utility company is a natural monopoly in that you can sometimes only get your water from them, so most people do (and others dig wells). Steam has that kind of market share, but did it off being an actually GOOD service. I agree the PC games market would take a huge hit if Steam goes down, but it isn't a required monopoly. There are plenty of other digital stores out there, plus old fashioned physical purchases will always be an option.
@@Xantheleiexactly, if GoG Galaxy would get a lot of those features it might be a good competition to Steam, as it also is a solid platform, especially as it has a way to get all your libraries in 1 place
I think that is left out I think is the fact that Epic games are actually kind of clutch. The fact that there is a competitor to steam forces Valve to keep all of these features that customers/developers love. I use Steam more often than Epic but I'm happy that it doesn't have monopoly
I am from Poland, Steam prices for us is higher due to dollar rate being from 2 years ago.
We have to manually contact devs to change it, that's annoying but well it is what it is.
Steam does many things wrong...
I wasn't going to put my game on Steam, but I just double checked and I'm definitely adding it there too. If you aren't selling it via Steam key, you CAN sell your game yourself AS WELL at a lower price.
So I can sell my game directly on my website at $7 and on Steam for $10, I just can't use Steam features to do it, like a Steam key. Thor is right, that's incredibly fair.
Wow, someone who knows how to read. It's crazy how people genuinely believe this price parity rule applies to non-Steam copies as well when it's very specific. There are quite a few products that are sold at different prices on Steam vs other distribution services.
@@Moskeeto There is some anecdotal evidence of Steam warning developers about a difference in pricing, but that's all I could find, frankly.
you cannot sell it for lower than you price it on steam at 5:15 pirate explains it, and why that is
@@Aciarr If you sell the game without a steam key you're free to sell it for whatever you want.
If you're selling the steam key, you can't sell it for less than it's sold for on Steam.
@@Aciarr He is explaining steam keys.
5:30 I was selling games to a local game store. Another guy was interested in buying them off me. The clerk told him that if I entertained a deal with the other customer I would be ejected from the store for undercutting their business. Same deal.
His argument at that timestamp is a strawman. The price parity point has nothing to do with selling steam keys everywhere at the same price, it has to do with the fact that a developer cannot choose to have a different price on other platforms if they have their game on steam at all.
@@nichan008at that point it would be ripping off steam to advertise their game so it will be purchased on other platforms. There was a lawsuit thats kind of similar against fortnight for circumventing apples cut on their app store by processing microtransactions in their app to keep all the money
@@nichan008 The point is that the seller doesn't get to screw over the store. This is how MANY brick and mortar stores work, as well as online ones.
@@nichan008
The issue with that is that the only times Steam has said anything about price parity is under the section about steam keys, for a short time they did use language that could make it sound like price parity should be applied even without the use of steamkeys, but that has been changed to explicitly state it only applies to steam keys, and general price parity even without steam keys has never been enforced.
(The current guidelines state "fucker, remember that this is only applicable to sales through steam keys" a somewhat excessive amount, just to avoid any confusion.)
Also, you assume that either he is really ignorant and doesn't know the terms of service under which he is selling his game, which I find unlikely considering how much time and effort he spends on pricing and selling the game (regional pricing, making sure the storepage of the game looks as good as possible...), or that he is deliberately lying about those terms, at which point I'd like to know what his motive for lying is?
@@sidenote1459 Exactly, the largest player in the market dictates the price that covers their investment in 'features' or whatever overhead they have in running their business. Being able to do that is what undercuts smaller stores that don't have that overhead and can give a larger return to the seller even when selling for cheaper.
This ensures Walmart and Steam will always win. Even an equal competitor with the exact same overhead (features) could not displace them from the market. The competitor would have to overnight be absolutely better in everyway AND Walmart/Steam would have to do nothing in response as their userbase dwindled. No competitor could sustain that business model.
This is why it's anticompetitive. It ensures no one can compete with you on the only feature that actually matters to customers: price.
So feature bloat and overhead MUST rise to the level where if a competitor hasn't made the equivalent to the 20+ year investment that Valve has had, it can be pointed and shit on because 'they're selling the same thing for a worse value'.
Customers don't get to choose what features have value in this model. Only Valve does.
they can just show the difference between epic and steam and case closed
Just a note: I feel like digital game store fronts don't need to compete directly with steam, if they have a specific niche.
For example, GOG may not have the size of steam, but it still serves a niche that steam doesn't.
I totally agree with everything Thor says except for the visual part of the store. (9:31)
I personally really like that every store page is similar and the dev has to advertise with the game instead of some fancy background.
It is clean, simple and all important information is at the same location for every game on the store.
The homepage of the game heart bound looks fancy at first but the book shelve image at the side really draws away the focus from the center, where the game information is given.
I agree with you. I can understand his position as a dev, having customizable pages can be a great tool for branding and marketing. However, as a consumer I prefer the standardized format because it is easy to find all the important information. I don’t want to be bombarded with graphics and a million different fonts when shopping around, just give me the information I need.
Agree. I’m not buying a store page, I’m buying the product. Why distract me with a fancy page if the product is quality? I do GET why devs would want that and there’s maybe room for compromise between focusing on the game and making the page nice but honestly, if you give an inch some sleezebag will take a mile. And that consistency doesn’t DETRACT from sales, it simply doesn’t encourage them.
While I agree that default store look IS good enough. It could be better
I personally feel the promo videos on the page are a better way of selling the game's aesthetics than a fancy page layout. Also, they can always have their own website for the game and link to it from Steam.
the instant they're given customizable pages fraud will be committed with them. No doubt at all.
Given that PC players pay noticably LESS for our games almost accross the board when compared to console players thanks to the steam platform, this seems like total bull crap.
This was the best update I could have asked for this! Thank you!
4:30 This is completely incorrect. Plenty of devs have had the text of reviews scrubbed, or the reviews outright removed. Same with posts in their community expressing concerns in a polite way.
Man I can't believe he didn't even mention Proton. Such a freaking game changer. You know who actually tried to do some anti-competitive shit and force developers to use their store? Microsoft. That's why we have so much Linux support today. Also if Steam was using their market dominance to force out other stores... why can I download anything I want on my Steam Deck without having to jailbreak it? I can just go to the desktop and install anything I want. Why can I add nonsteam games to steam just to have them appear in my library? I can't do that with my Switch. Valve is the only company that seems to go out of it's way to allow players the freedom to choose any store or platform they want and yet people continue to call them a monopoly. I wish more monopolies worked that way. I wish my internet provider went out of it's way to provide great service and also allowed other companies to use their infrastructure to potentially provide me a better deal.
Steam is by definition a monopoly. And it should absolutely have more competition. It's just miraculously a monopoly run by people who aren't interested in using that monopolistic power to screw over customers. Possibly because they know that even though they don't really have competition now, there could quite easily become competition if they start driving users away.
@@dombo813 Steam is definitely not by definition a Monopoly considering there are multiple other storefronts. Microsoft, Epic, CD Project, EA and several others like itch io and humble bundle run their own storefronts. The PC market is awash in competition and Valve as pointed out doesn't really do anything to discourage or impede them. Actually quite the contrary. Epic signs developers to exclusivity agreements, EA for a time pulled all of their games off of Steam, Microsoft tried to make it so that every game had to sign through their storefront as an app and what has Valve done? Aside from expanding Linux support as an alternative to Windows, nothing. Valve isn't the one killing the competition. The competition are the ones killing the competition.
@@dombo813 "By definition a monopoly".
Allow me to blow your mind - I have bought a game from another vendor than Steam. They exist.
@@dombo813 You are technically correct in the most asinine sense of the word 'monopoly' in that Steam has a "dominant level of control over the supply of a product or service".
However, that is only one part of the legal definition of a monopoly.
Valve does not engage in *any* anti-competitive practices. They don't do exclusivity deals, they don't limit access to their product or service in a way that prevents competition from starting, they don't deliberately modify their product or service in a way that makes it generally inaccessible; they take no action against their competition.
The price parity agreement isn't even an anti-competitive practice despite claims by this and the US version of the same lawsuit; the price parity only applies to Steam-generated license keys, "steam keys". Outside of specific vendors doing sales, like Humble Bundle and whatnot, Valve doesn't let you regularly sell Steam-generated license keys off-steam for a discount. They do this because those steam-generated license keys can then be activated on steam, no matter where they were purchased from, to access the product and have all of the features that Steam brings. It doesn't stop a developer selling their game on other platforms, or even directly, for a lower price; it just means that if you are using the license keys that Steam will generate for you, those have to be at the same regular price as the Steam market.
@@happygimly6061 They have more than 50% of the market. By some definitions that's a monopoly.
I've always preached that I would gladly use other platforms because I am staunchly against a monopolies for digital game marketplaces but every other launcher I've used besides GOG is so comedically awful to use there's absolutely no reason why I would even entertain the idea of using them except for free games. Do you remember how fucking long it took Epic Games to even implement a basic wishlist?
They didn't have a shopping cart feature until several years after launch. That service is comically bad.
@@pixels_per_minute Ehh while Steam is objectively the better platform Epic Games does the basic thing well enough without much fuss. Buy game, download play game.
Sorry but even if Epic Games came out with best platform ever sunk cost would keep Steam players on Steam. People have the same account for more than a decade they woun't change platforms short of Steam just not existing anymore.
Did they even impleent a shopping cart into their storefront?
Been ages since I heard about that mess of a store.
@@simplysmiley4670 Yup. And wishlist and custom library pages and all that fluff. But even if EGS came out with Steam 2.0 that was better in every way people just wouldn't leave Steam. Sunk Cost and all that.
@@alelekitaponga That and trust built up with Steam.
Epic and especially all the other corpos with their own storefronts just, don't have any trust built with the customers, if anything there's hefty distrust of them.
This is the first time I've ever heard a breakdown on how the 30% works
I've heard about this lawsuit, it's stupid and won't pass through
a message from England. I'm not being ripped off. Thank you for reading my message
Another message from England - I am being ripped off, but not by steam, by AAA publishers who think buggy, incomplete live services are worth £70.
@@dombo813 If only they focused on that instead...
The most hilarious thing ever, was when epic announced on launch it would give all those great perks to editors, but nothing to customers, not even like 5% discount shop wide (instead of giving like 15% more to editors). Cause I knew that was when their shop failed from the start to be an issue for steam.
They don't include credit card fees unlike steam so it's higher than it seems
Wimp Low vs the chosen one lawsuit
"Face-to-foot style. How'd you like it?"
"I'm sure on some planet your style is quite impressive.
But your weak link is, this is Earth."
Valve's lawyers laughing at this lawsuit thinking gg ez
So, a few things. One thing people are complaining about with steam (not in the lawsuit itself, but elsewhere) is that you can't will your games to family members. So you die, and you can't give it to someone else. Now, there's literally nothing stopping you from just giving your username and password in your will, and even steam has been fine with that. They just aren't allowing transfers. People think this isn't customer facing, but its really not. Why? It's scam prevention. If they allowed that crap, then how do they prove any of it? Do they just allow random person y with a chatgpt obit to claim someone else's steam library as their own? So no, I'm entirely fine with them not allowing these transfers for that very reason.
Another thing is, steam only ever 'seems' like they're doing nothing. They are constantly improving, but because the don't go heavy handed with the announcements, and more important they actually work at launch nine times out of ten, it just seems like they're doing nothing. Steam could be a hell of a lot more cut throat than it is, but they've resisted because they're doing very well for themselves by being good guys.
Oh, and incidentally, the big thing that won me over to steam from any other platform overall that barely gets mentioned? Cloud saves. I can uninstall a game, reinstall it months later after deleting all my save files locally and boom, there when I reinstall. I want to stop playing on my laptop and play on my pc? Bam, updated save files between the two. Its a simple thing, yes, but no one else is really doing it, or if they are, not as well as valve.
Steam Input and Family Sharing are the ones for me. No one else on PC has those features.
Yeah, when my boot SSD died, I lost all my saves with it, and I got EVERY Steam saves back with the cloud save
> They just aren't allowing transfers. People think this isn't customer facing, but its really not. Why? It's scam prevention. If they allowed that crap, then how do they prove any of it?
The same way everyone else does. Require an offical death certificate and proof of a will signed by a lawyer.
@@gothpunkboy89they'ed probably would have you sign up with your government ID for that to work. I dont think steam wants to hold any more of your legal info than what you need to pay. Less things they're responsible for in case of a hack.
@@gothpunkboy89 On a global plataform? How do you expect them to prove that an Indian document should be valid on US, for example? It's same problem with digital rights that youtube faces with DMCA. Valve and CZcams took the same approach: "too much documents to manually review, not enough time, people and money to do it, so it's not our problem".
Steam is ripping me off by charging (on average) half of what my local retailers do.
Ah but you forget that your local retailer can also try to scam your mom into buying a keyboard that cost $60 dollars 4 years ago for $129 and also sell you amiibos at a 300% markup.
8:30 you didn't mention that that Steam score is only influenced by Steam purchases not steam key reviews. keys have its own score at the bottom.
which is good. that's why the score is so highly valued by everyone.
why is that good? I was forced to buy a product on steam but can't place a proper review on steam?
Steam lets you list the required specs you need to download your game as literally anything so you can type shit like "a bottle of orange juice" for minimum ram requirement.
They don't control how much somebody charges for the game neither.
Gabe is just a grown ass kid that prolly loves the idea of being the Beloved Gabe, he cares and thats amazing
I really hope the person he gives the company to (in the future) has the same spirit/philosophy as Gabe. It needs to remain a private and customer-friendly company.
Dude bought a submarine company so researchers could continue to study the ocean and has zero interest in going it it himself. He also sent the first indigenous oceanographer of the Marianas down to the Mariana Trench. Gabe is a boss
In my country, there's a saying that summarizes this lawsuit perfectly...
"Throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks." LOL
If I ever get my hands on a magic lamp, one of the wishes would be to keep Gaben alive forever.
Maybe my next favorite thor fan channel
The price parity thing is especially insane when you consider that steam is under absolutely no obligation to allow you to sell their steam keys on other platforms and then support the downloads of those games. They do it anyways because it's pro consumer and pro developer and they know they win in the long run by keeping those developers and consumers in their ecosystem. But it's not something any other platform would do. Imagine apple doing that. You can't, because apple explicitly prohibits that and actively enforces it
I'm not one to defend Epic, but they also do allow for game keys to be sold on other sites. So do EA, Ubisoft, and Rockstar's launchers, but that's exclusively for their own games so that doesn't really count. Sony used to do it as well but they completely killed that a few years back because they wanted to keep 100% of the digital sales on PlayStation to themselves.
the price parity thing has nothing to do with keys, its about developers selling the same game on a platform like epic for less
@@hangup8629 And outside of one or two anecdotal claims, Steam seems to have no issues with that at all.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Steam has won against lawsuits alleging that very thing.
It’s the same if you are selling stuff on eBay. They allow you to offer the same product on other markets/platforms but it has to be cheapest on eBay.
But I like most is the fact that steam is basically saying Yeah I know you just bought the right to use this data It shouldn't matter what platform it goes on here You bought the game.
I would assume that other distribution platforms who wanna rip people off are greasing the palms of government officials to push this lawsuit.
It's refunds.
Valve allows refunds for any reason up to the 120th minute of play, this may vary in your country but it's the MINIMUM worldwide.
People who want the 'gamer' demographic to pay attention to them are of course going to attack the one place that allows for crowd-sourced reviews or worse in their minds, refunding a game.
Remember that Valve handles the transaction for a refund but they turn to the publisher responsible and foist said refund responsibility to them.
Hell Divers 2 was a good example of this, large-volume refunding over the PSN requirement being forced back on to unsuspecting customers, Sony must not have liked that at all for many reasons, but most of all it was because they desperately needed PSN sign ups to show investors and now they have a failed business decision looking like a bloated corpse on their door step as the investors walk in.
I gaurantee that Sony is one of the many groups that have lobbied for this in governments world wide.
the question who paid who its general knowledge to people who use steam 30% cut is used to fund all steam services and RD and its not 30% always its tier to go lower the higeher sales and any devs that testify for valve would say its even too much for 30% cut they take
@@Rexhunterj its worth pointing out that they sometimes allow refunds past the 120th minute too.
source:
Me: I have had success in refunding games dispite 2+ hours of game play. (admittedly I usually had a arguement about time spent in the tutorial or similar but point stands)
@@RexhunterjI’d bet my money on it.
@@Rexhunterj >but most of all it was because they desperately needed PSN sign ups to show investorsbut most of all it was because they desperately needed PSN sign ups to show investors
People keep repeating this without a single scrap of information to support it.
one thing i want to say is about the reviews is that if a steamgame gets review bombed then those review bombs can get deleted for some reeason. This happened on the game "Skullgirls: Second Encore" the games main points are fighting and lewdness, the team behind the studio got switched and the new execs made some "adjustments" to already bought artworks where things get censored and a lot of people did not like that. The steampage got review bombed and a while later the "recent rating: overwhelmingly negative" to "recent rating: positive". maybe those reviews got reinstated later but its still bad that reviews were deleted.
Things I love about steam, remote play, proton, steamdeck, vr, the retention for old discontinued games, sync for saved games, it's the absolute largest library of available games in the world... Yeah Steam is freaking awesome.