Thanks for the detailed review - much appreciated! I am particularly delighted how well you captured the game's intent and scope; this was one of my main concerns on release. A few comments: 1) The tone and overall feel of the game is focused on colourful adventure, and eschews the grimdark aesthetic. I am happy this came through on a read-through: there are many good, serious historical games; this is one for making trouble in a fantastic pseudo-historical setting. When I first read the original 17th century picaresque novels, I was surprised to discover how dynamic and light-hearted they were - even Simplicissimus and Courage, which must be the funniest books written about the Thirty Year War. They were also very much like my kind of D&D, which immediately captured my attention. There was something there! 2) As you say, this is a game that deliberately breaks some of the unwritten "rules" of old-school design. This is done in the service of the game's feel and gameplay, and with the understanding that it is not an attempt to recreate a form of D&D (I have an older game that does that, but it will remain a Hungarian exclusive). Some of it may be a hard sell in the OSR crowd, and I can relate, since I, too, have d20 PTSD. But I do believe I was able to use the d20 System for good, and cut away the elements which can make it cumbersome and annoying. 3) Most rules in the game (you mentioned skills and combat checks in your review) are intentionally shallow, making them open to interpretation. Using the rules creatively - but not replacing player ideas - is the balance I was shooting for. Rulings play a large part. For example, surprise is handled with player skill, and occasionally with Spot or Listen checks, and I sometimes use Temptation rolls for reaction. These are minor examples of rulings that take the place of a hard rule. Likewise, Combat Checks are intentionally open, meant to broaden, not narrow player options. 4) The vagabond class is similar to the AD&D thief, but more capable in a fight. They are perhaps the "default" Helvéczia class, used to model your average, resourceful scoundrel and troublemaker. When in doubt, run a vagabond! 5) I realise the issues with shipping, but this is outside my control. It is not *as* bad as it could be (worldwide shipping costs have increased tremendously since the 2000s, and the Hungarian Post is still pretty affordable/reliable), but it is pretty bad. The boxed set is right below the postal weight limit, too; it fits, but barely. 6) PDFs are released with a delay because I believe in print. (The reasons are too complex to repeat here.) However, I can provide the PDFs to buyers under a gentleman's agreement, if there is a fair reason for it.
What was the main selling point for me is that while it has adventure novel influences, it is _not_ grim and gritty and _not_ gothic horror. The folks are mostly decent and worth saving. If you know it, most of the Witcher 3's Hearts of Stone DLC could be a nice Helvéczia story. (spoiler: deal with the devil goes wrong, the protagonist goes to a village wedding, encounters a giant toad, fools the devil in the end, etc.) Sinning, and player annoyance. During actual game sessions this proved to be much less intrusive than it seemed during reading. The reason is that if you are at either end of the spectrum, you get a very useful bonus (the only difference is from whom). With very minor changes, you can use the system as is, as long as it is in Europe. I know of spanish and scottish highlands scenarios, and at a point I planned a polish-lithuanian campaign (during the Deluge). It would take some effort to plant the system into ottoman lands or the Caribbean though. Also, while the intended (?) mood is not grim, if you are willing to adapt a darker tone, the system is suitable for Moorcock's von Bek series (the War Hound, etc.) and maybe Gloriana. Character strength, skills, maximum bonuses. At first I was sceptical (in general I don't like skills in rpgs). But the small changes add up: relatively strong starting characters + maximized enemy levels + reasonable chance for unskilled checks (~40%). Because of this, the players are more proactive than usual, take more risks. Which is perfectly in line with the intended tone I think, and is easier to work with as a GM.
Damn... There goes more money to an rpg I didn't know I wanted till now. Thank you Aaron. First it was DCC Dying Earth, now this. When my roommate asks I'll blame you. 😉
Nah, it'd work fine. I'd just say that the setting and playstyle for Helveczia is really the biggest selling point, and that may be going outside that realm. I see Helveczia and I think lots of time should be spent dealing with people
I've heard shipping is abysmal, but here's where it can be bought. emdt.bigcartel.com/category/helveczia-rpg I was on the fence in person, but I'm really, really glad I got it.
Baron Münchausen for sure. Some others: - Preussler: Krabat and the sorcerer's mill (aka. Krabat in the Black Mill) - Hargla: Apothecary Melchior and the Mystery of St Olaf’s Church - some of Sapkowski's Witcher short stories also fit - to my greatest suprise, Jókai's novels have english translation (Pretty Michal and Loved up until the Scaffold) - Mother Courage (not Brecht's drama, the original story) - Rob Roy (the old movie with Liam Neeson) - Soldier of Fortune maybe (much earlier timeframe, but the mood is fine. The old Bud Spencer movie)
I actually do not get the whole GRIMDARK thing, I do not remember any D&D game i played in being GOTHIC GRIMDARK --I'm going to guess the GD movement is based on the RPG style from Places where it is very cold and dark most of the year like Russia and Germany? Now I'm old and do not remember things well but I'd say most of my D&D years were more of the lighthearted the top games.
Not exactly regarding Grimdark's place of origin. It comes from Game Workshop's Warhammer 40k "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" and the subsequent "grimdarkening" of warhammer fantasy, although fantasy already had aspects of it from the beginning. Germany's original most popular rpg, The Dark Eye, started as a clone of Basic DnD and was a mix of dnd-style sword and sorcery, German fairytales and turned into a relatively low fantasy late medieval/renaissance "fantastic realism" setting as the authors call it. Can't speak for the atmosphere and setting of Russian rpgs, though.
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Thanks for the detailed review - much appreciated! I am particularly delighted how well you captured the game's intent and scope; this was one of my main concerns on release.
A few comments:
1) The tone and overall feel of the game is focused on colourful adventure, and eschews the grimdark aesthetic. I am happy this came through on a read-through: there are many good, serious historical games; this is one for making trouble in a fantastic pseudo-historical setting. When I first read the original 17th century picaresque novels, I was surprised to discover how dynamic and light-hearted they were - even Simplicissimus and Courage, which must be the funniest books written about the Thirty Year War. They were also very much like my kind of D&D, which immediately captured my attention. There was something there!
2) As you say, this is a game that deliberately breaks some of the unwritten "rules" of old-school design. This is done in the service of the game's feel and gameplay, and with the understanding that it is not an attempt to recreate a form of D&D (I have an older game that does that, but it will remain a Hungarian exclusive). Some of it may be a hard sell in the OSR crowd, and I can relate, since I, too, have d20 PTSD. But I do believe I was able to use the d20 System for good, and cut away the elements which can make it cumbersome and annoying.
3) Most rules in the game (you mentioned skills and combat checks in your review) are intentionally shallow, making them open to interpretation. Using the rules creatively - but not replacing player ideas - is the balance I was shooting for. Rulings play a large part. For example, surprise is handled with player skill, and occasionally with Spot or Listen checks, and I sometimes use Temptation rolls for reaction. These are minor examples of rulings that take the place of a hard rule. Likewise, Combat Checks are intentionally open, meant to broaden, not narrow player options.
4) The vagabond class is similar to the AD&D thief, but more capable in a fight. They are perhaps the "default" Helvéczia class, used to model your average, resourceful scoundrel and troublemaker. When in doubt, run a vagabond!
5) I realise the issues with shipping, but this is outside my control. It is not *as* bad as it could be (worldwide shipping costs have increased tremendously since the 2000s, and the Hungarian Post is still pretty affordable/reliable), but it is pretty bad. The boxed set is right below the postal weight limit, too; it fits, but barely.
6) PDFs are released with a delay because I believe in print. (The reasons are too complex to repeat here.) However, I can provide the PDFs to buyers under a gentleman's agreement, if there is a fair reason for it.
Clarification: During character creation, you roll two characters and pick your favorite. You don't roll every stat twice and pick your favorite.
Dude, the "cleric among scoundrels". Friar Tuck of course
What was the main selling point for me is that while it has adventure novel influences, it is _not_ grim and gritty and _not_ gothic horror. The folks are mostly decent and worth saving. If you know it, most of the Witcher 3's Hearts of Stone DLC could be a nice Helvéczia story. (spoiler: deal with the devil goes wrong, the protagonist goes to a village wedding, encounters a giant toad, fools the devil in the end, etc.)
Sinning, and player annoyance. During actual game sessions this proved to be much less intrusive than it seemed during reading. The reason is that if you are at either end of the spectrum, you get a very useful bonus (the only difference is from whom).
With very minor changes, you can use the system as is, as long as it is in Europe. I know of spanish and scottish highlands scenarios, and at a point I planned a polish-lithuanian campaign (during the Deluge). It would take some effort to plant the system into ottoman lands or the Caribbean though. Also, while the intended (?) mood is not grim, if you are willing to adapt a darker tone, the system is suitable for Moorcock's von Bek series (the War Hound, etc.) and maybe Gloriana.
Character strength, skills, maximum bonuses. At first I was sceptical (in general I don't like skills in rpgs). But the small changes add up: relatively strong starting characters + maximized enemy levels + reasonable chance for unskilled checks (~40%). Because of this, the players are more proactive than usual, take more risks. Which is perfectly in line with the intended tone I think, and is easier to work with as a GM.
This is certainly an interesting product
Absolutely. I'm incredibly fascinated by it.
Damn... There goes more money to an rpg I didn't know I wanted till now. Thank you Aaron. First it was DCC Dying Earth, now this. When my roommate asks I'll blame you. 😉
🤣 thankfully I've only got a ton of other stuff to cover
Can't wait for mine to ship.
So, the box set comes with a PDF, but it isn't finished yet? Will he email the PDF to us when it's done?
i was considering running through ultans door combine with the stygian library with this system. too weird?
Nah, it'd work fine. I'd just say that the setting and playstyle for Helveczia is really the biggest selling point, and that may be going outside that realm. I see Helveczia and I think lots of time should be spent dealing with people
I am sorry I did not pick this one up in Texas from Black Blade Booth
I've heard shipping is abysmal, but here's where it can be bought. emdt.bigcartel.com/category/helveczia-rpg
I was on the fence in person, but I'm really, really glad I got it.
Watch the movie - Flesh & Blood, starring Rutger Hauer, it would fit this game. And the Adventures of Baron Munchausen!
I will! Thanks for the recommendation
Baron Münchausen for sure.
Some others:
- Preussler: Krabat and the sorcerer's mill (aka. Krabat in the Black Mill)
- Hargla: Apothecary Melchior and the Mystery of St Olaf’s Church
- some of Sapkowski's Witcher short stories also fit
- to my greatest suprise, Jókai's novels have english translation (Pretty Michal and Loved up until the Scaffold)
- Mother Courage (not Brecht's drama, the original story)
- Rob Roy (the old movie with Liam Neeson)
- Soldier of Fortune maybe (much earlier timeframe, but the mood is fine. The old Bud Spencer movie)
I actually do not get the whole GRIMDARK thing, I do not remember any D&D game i played in being GOTHIC GRIMDARK --I'm going to guess the GD movement is based on the RPG style from Places where it is very cold and dark most of the year like Russia and Germany?
Now I'm old and do not remember things well but I'd say most of my D&D years were more of the lighthearted the top games.
Not exactly regarding Grimdark's place of origin. It comes from Game Workshop's Warhammer 40k "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" and the subsequent "grimdarkening" of warhammer fantasy, although fantasy already had aspects of it from the beginning. Germany's original most popular rpg, The Dark Eye, started as a clone of Basic DnD and was a mix of dnd-style sword and sorcery, German fairytales and turned into a relatively low fantasy late medieval/renaissance "fantastic realism" setting as the authors call it. Can't speak for the atmosphere and setting of Russian rpgs, though.