Beowulf, Hero of the Old English - Mythillogical Podcast
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- On today's episode Crofty makes a triumphant return, joining Charles to wax poetic about Beowulf, the Anglo-Saxon epic rich in historical and legendary connections, and to ask if the eponymous hero was a poet’s creation, or a figure of legend himself?
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Video editing by Byron Lewis. Mythillogical logo by Ettore Mazza. You can find more of Ettore's excellent artwork below:
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Sources:
The Anglo-Saxons by Marc Morris
www.waterstones.com/book/the-...
A Guide to Old English (8th Edition) by Bruce Mitchell and Fred Robinson
www.waterstones.com/book/a-gu...
Introduction to Old English (3rd edition) by Peter S. Baker
www.waterstones.com/book/intr...
A Beowulf handbook: an indispensable guide to the old English poem by Robert B. Bjork and John D. Niles
archive.org/details/beowulfha...
Interpretations of Beowulf : a critical anthology, edited by R. D. Fulk
archive.org/details/interpret...
A Critical Companion to Beowulf by Andy Orchard
archive.org/details/criticalc...
Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics by J. R. R. Tolkien
jenniferjsnow.files.wordpress...
Beowulf translated by Seamus Heaney
archive.org/details/beowulf00...
Beowulf: A Dual-Language Edition by Howell D. Chickering Jr
archive.org/details/beowulf00...
Beowulf: a translation and commentary: together with Sellic Spell by J. R. R. Tolkien
archive.org/details/beowulf--...
Lejre beyond the legend by Tom Christensen
romu.dk/wp-content/uploads/si...
The Origins of Beowulf: And the Pre-Viking Kingdom of East Anglia by Sam Newton
books.google.co.uk/books?id=5...
Anglo-Latin literature, 600-899 by Michael Lapidge
archive.org/details/anglolati...
Liber monstrorum: A translation of the Old English text by Andy Orchard
web.archive.org/web/200501180...
The relation of the Hrólfs saga kraka and the Bjarkarímur to Beowulf by Oscar Ludvig Olson
www.jstor.org/stable/40914974
Beowulf before Beowulf: Anglo-Saxon Anthroponymy and Heroic Legend by Leonard Neidorf
www.medievalists.net/2017/10/...
King Hygelac of the Geats: History, Legend, and Beowulf by Leonard Neidorf
link.springer.com/article/10....
Legends of Lejre, Home of Kings by Marijane Osborn
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Bee-Wolf and the Hand of Victory: Identifying the Heroes of Beowulf and Vǫlsunga saga by Christopher Abram
www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/...
Hrólfs saga Gautrekssonar and the Originality of Beowulf by Tom Grant
academic.oup.com/res/article-...
#Beowulf #OldEnglish #Anglosaxons
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Suonatore di Liuto by Kevin MacLeod
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🙃
This one is going to be my favorite from you guys.
You guys should read “Eaters Of The Dead” and then watch the movie “The Thirteenth Warrior.” Very good and are another spin on the Beowulf Mythology.
Ok unpopular opinion but I love that goofy CGI Beowulf movie
You aren't alone -- I've always had a fondness for it.
one of the better zemeckis films imo
It has that not openly aware selfawareness that stays implicit and doesn't blur out the text of the story imho
That movie was great 🔥🔥💪 i didn't even know he was real till i came across this CZcams video. Bout to listen now ✌️
Old English? Beowulf was one of the oldest Nordic sagas.
Grendle just wanted a good night's sleep but Hrothgar keeps throwing all-night parties.
Quite, it's enough to enrage anybody
I admit I'm commenting before watching this video, but I've been obsessed with Beowulf for the last 25 years. I've re-read it yearly in the west saxon in which it's preserved, and made several of my own translations. Needless to say, in extremely excited for this episode! It's been a while..
After watching the video, I'm very impressed! Very interesting discussion)) I do need to note about the question about the difference between the names of Heorot and Lejre.. Early medieval germanic royalty (and by extension, their halls) was symbolised by the stag (hart being the cognate term). So Heorot was the hall itself in Lejre. I used it's alliteration with "hall" in a poem of mine in old east norse referencing Beowulf.
I hiortaʀ hallu,
halvan av hinum gasti drugku fyri heilsu
Vreiþi vakþi hit vitni
Vriþandi handʀ mauþraþi menn. Svamm i sveita auk viliat vrekni.
Bīulfʀ, bruniþ bruþi dauþs
bani bratt endi a
hariandi av hallu, iah blaþblindan bloþriʀ.
I was very disheartened to hear I think History Channel pod cast and comments from history scholars that Beowulf was not a real person. Beowulf was a REAL MAN.
He just did too many noble dangerous deeds book smart men can't handle or imagine someone doing for the greater good....so they pencil whip him. They can hold a pencil but not a candle to HIM. A "man of renown" Hero...
The guy , I'm sorry I don't remember his name right now, that does "Real life in movies..." Has an excellent old English poem on one of his podcasts with such beautiful descriptive seemingly " double words" no longer used. I say double because they say so much creating such beautiful precisely perfect visuals. I'm trying to think of even one but they elude me just now also... I think "glamoring" is one but like that where we have similar nouns but they are in different forms. Really neat words I wish never fell out of favor and we need to bring back. So poetic yet descriptive. Methinks... Like Arthur victim of Pagan vs Christian beliefs so ...Christians won out. But Beowulf was too great as was Arthur for men to deny with any effect on their deeds and histories.
You guys should read “Eaters Of The Dead” and then watch the movie “The Thirteenth Warrior.” Very good and are another spin on the Beowulf Mythology.
"He was the strongest man, on that day" gives me big "remember that you are human" vibes.
Its easy to look at mythology as some sort of elevated monolith, I love the nuance of reminding the reader that nothing can remain static; even the greatest of halls and heroes
I really like the opening of “it’s been awhile” it kinda fits with the myth theme as it is usually associated with a long time being passed. It’s almost like a greeting from the myths
I sort of prefer "So" from the Seamus Henney version.
It wouldn’t feel like a true Mythillogical episode without it!
Beowulf on Mythillogical? No better way to begin the week!
This is my first episode on this channel. I clicked because Beowulf, which I've been peripherally "into" for years now. I've read it a few times, even have my favorite copy from teenagehood--anyway, I'm absolutely subscribing. I'm all for spooky mythic podcasts but it's so refreshing to find one that covers these things in a purely analytical way. So calming.
Once again a great Mythillogical video! I'd like to add some commentary on the debates mentioned around 32:00 - 33:00 in case people are interested in what is exactly meant with that (atleast which debate I think is references here...), although I have to mention that I myself am a layman and wouldn't be able to give many insights into the most recent discussions:
There has been a very large debate going on in linguistic, archaeological and historical circles in the past 60+ years on the exact nature of the Germanic peoples. While there are many schools of thought with their own specific theories the main crux of the debate is around whether the Germanic peoples were an actual tangible cultural group with shared heritages and identity (even if very vague), or whether the Germanic group is purely geographical and linguistic with very little if any shared heritage and identity. Many of the established older historical schools around this topic (the Vienna School of History and the Toronto School of History being two prominent groupings) have pioneered the latter approach, while both linguists from Tolkien's day as well as many modern linguists, archaeologists, historicans and interdisciplinary academics seem to follow the former approach and have been pushing back to the Vienna and Toronto schools in the last two/three decades.
The mythology and folktales of the Germanic peoples are some of the main arenas in which this discussion is fought. Oversimplifying once again, there are some debates on whether the Icelandic Sagas and the Germanic heroic stories are built upon earlier stories and myths from the Migration Era (4th to 7th centuries) or before, or whether they have developed much later in Scandinavia and Francia to construct an imagined or romanticised past, especially during the time of the Carolingians (when the earliest surviving written copies of these stories tend to appear).
There is also a unique debate going on around Anglo-Saxon literature that has to do with debates surrounding the specific makeup of the Anglo-Saxons. While I don't think you'll find any historian that denies the continental origin of the English language and the names of the Anglo-Saxon peoples, there has been a pretty large discussion on whether the Anglo-Saxons were significantly Germanic or whether they were a synthesis of Celtic and Germanic in which the Insular Celtic element supposedly contributed the most. This debate follows the same pattern as the wider Germanic debate, with older historians from the late 20th century arguing for the Celtic synthesis theory while more recent historians (with a lot of help from both linguists and archaeogeneticists) have been arguing that there was a significant continental Germanic cultural and identity input, supported by genetic research that does show that a lot of modern-day Englishmen are descendants of continental Germanic peoples.
The debate around Beowulf probably doesn't have to do too much with the Christian elements per se, but rather with the dating that comes with these Christian elements. The followers of the celtic theory tend to argue that Beowulf and other Anglo-Saxon poems developed in the period after the Anglo-Saxon invasions (or in their view "invasions") to construct an imagined past with influences from Frankish elites doing the same, while the other side argues that these poems were developed during or even before the invasions and were put to text later. I'm not familiar with the discussion around Beowulf itself, but I do know that in the case of the Widsith (the oldest Anglo-Saxon poem we know) the debate has been swinging in favour of the latter theory, as the references to other Germanic peoples as well as the language used hint towards it being composed in continental Europe before it travelled with the Anglo-Saxons to England. I wouldn't be surprised if Beowulf developed similarly to the Widsith in that regard, although (again) I just don't know enough about that particular debate.
I wrote wayyyy too much on this than I intended to 😅I hope this wall of text helps atleast someone in case they are interested in delving deeper into this historical debate before they research Beowulf itself.
Wow, thank you. That was very informative/interesting👍
🤓🤓🤓
I remember watching the 13th Warrior and, at some point, exclaiming, " It''s Beowulf!"
Oh man, I can't wait to accidentally fall asleep watching CZcams and wake up three hours later to the second half of this video!
I can’t wait to pop into bed and listen to my bedtime story!! 🙏❤️👌
the part on old english was great, the tv series "sleepy hollow" actually portrayed this really well by actually transporting a character forward in time
I want to say that the 2007 animated film of Beowulf is an underrated animated film.
You guys should read “Eaters Of The Dead” and then watch the movie “The Thirteenth Warrior.” Very good and are another spin on the Beowulf Mythology.
Finally someone pronounces Geats correctly! Well done!
You guys should read “Eaters Of The Dead” and then watch the movie “The Thirteenth Warrior.” Very good and are another spin on the Beowulf Mythology.
Yessss just in time for my 6 hour drive to the upper peninsula of Michigan and I was thinking Beowulf would be a good topic to cover
Hope your journey is going well.
I learned a lot about Beowulf from this episode that surprised me, especially on its origins. When you and Crofty went over the stories that may have inspired Beowulf, the description of various characters & creatures as 'trolls' made me curious about the origin of that word and what it was supposed to mean to people in the past. Could that be the subject of a future episode?
Thanks for the deep dive into Beowulf!
I’m reading The Lord of The Rings now (almost finished) and listening to you two has shown me more parallels. In those books I’ve seen lots of biblical parallels as well.
It certainly has a lot of Abrahamic themes too
Yayyy Crofty's back!! 🎉
Wonderful episode, I could happily sit here and listen to you two talk about this stuff for three more hours lol
Wow, thanks guys this was absolutely fantastic work!
super excited for this episode, been waiting for you guys to cover beowulf!!! at last we have arrived. you guys are incredible at history + myth podcasting
Yaaaaassss I'm really stoked for this one! Love this myth, so thrilled my fav history podcasters are covering it 😁 and glad Crofty is back too! This one is gonna be epic af
Good on ya Crofty. The legend is back.
Completely off topic but i've been startled enough to spit my drink out not once, but twice when i heard Charles, the Histocrat himself, reading things in two different videos for two different channels. It's really great to see (or hear) you in various other places. You've got a great voice for it. Though i never envisioned you reading Allister Crowley drinking absinthe in New Orleans. Was great!
Beowulf must make you understand that Jutes, Goths, Geats, Danes, Saxon, Angles, Norse raiders (let's called them vikings) were all the same people at different times in history...
But they weren’t really all Vikings not even all Scandinavians were Vikings
I love your videos so happy to see this one!
Yay! Ty for another awesome video!
thanks for the video drop. Love this channel
Well chaps thanks so much for that lengthy presentation. I have learnt the importance of reading about the story and the relevant history before reading great works of literature. I am about to read Beowulf; the detailed, historical context, and other information you have provided here in this video will be invaluable for appreciating the work
Crofty, you elusive bastard! Welcome back.
Whooopeee! Your back!
I'm going to get some exotic cheese, biscuits, and a half bottle of Shiraz, then enjoy the lot while listening later this evening.
Very excited for this :)
the fire at the intro makes this video so homely
Spectacular stuff, my thanks
wow youre back ty
The lads are back!
Perfect timing, I just finished the book
One of my favorites!!
Great great episode. It was particularly interesting as I am most familiar with Beowulf out of all the episodes I’ve listened to.
Not intended to be mean, a true constructive criticism for a better podcast. It would be better listening if you were both able to lower your nervous laugh tics. If there is something funny, then laugh. But when you don’t know what to do, a nervous laugh is grinding.
Crofty picked-up this tic especially pronounced.
Love you guys and loved this episode.
I've always been fascinated by Michael Chricton's interpretation of Beowulf (you may touch on this in the second half of your presentation), mainly because it was an semi-ntentional reverse plagiarism. As I remember, he wanted to find source documents for Beowulf, and since he couldn't he decided to make his own. He presented it in a college course as a joke, expecting at every stage to get disciplined for his dishonesty. Finally, maybe during his final presentation, he fussed up, and he actually got a super high mark for the project. This became "Eaters of the Dead," and was made into the movie "The Thirteenth Warrior" somewhat recently with Antonio Banderas in the narrator's role.
I'm simultaneously more excited about this episode than any other, and genuinely fearful that you're going to try to throw it to the dogs and leave me all sad and angry lol
Just to clarify, while the text says Hygelac died in Frisia, Beowulf gets revenge against the Hetware for his death. Hetware was the Old English name for a Frankish tribe next to Frisia commonly called the Chattuarii/Attuarii in Latin, so the text implies Hygelac was killed by the Franks during his raid. This connects to a different text that also mentions Chlochilaicus (as Chochilaicus) called the "Liber Historiae Francorum" (not to be confused with Tour's "Historia Francorum"), which describes that the Franks killed Chochilaicus for raiding the Attuarii.
maybe to them, "Frisia" just corresponds to what today is the Netherlands, not specifically territory run by the Frisians?
I love The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and I decided to get a Collin Classics version of Beowulf. Awesome video and a great guide for me to get through the book!
Wake up babe new mythillogical dropped
I love that the thumbnail is Beowulf suplexing Grendl 😂
If I could like this more than once for Crofty being back on I would.
Amazing video🎉
Yessss! Been to long!
Thanks gents, you never disappoint. Be well
Thank you so much
The burial mound practice was insanely common in scandinavia, I myself am from Denmark, and know of several, maybe around 5-6, that are located less than 40km of where I live
Thank heavens, i just rewatched your Gilgamesh video last night to avoid withdrawals.
I was literally watching King Arthur for the third time last night 🤦♀️
The pronunciation of Hygelac is indeed a tough one. The most accepted pronunciation is actually "hew-guh-lock". In old English the letter y is always pronounced (unpalatalized) "ew". The letter g is not always palatalized. This follows fairly complex rules.
One of my absolute favorite series 😌🤌🏿. I rewatch the here be dragons and following vid quite often 😁
What a coincidence I just finished the book Grendel yesterday.
Read that and Beowulf in high school! Sadly the dragon statue in John Gardiner's tree broke a number of years ago.
Terrible. Just terrible. I did not authorize that book. All lies.
King Hygelac of the geats is attested as a real person by Gregory of tours. The king lead a raid in the year 528 ad. Against Frisia and the Franks
Wooo Crofty! Missed you buddy
lovely
Marillion reference barely 15 mins in? You guys (and prog rock) are the best.
Seeing a new video on my feed got me bricked up😂😂
Thank you.
While it was called middle earth it also meant in Norse as Midgard or “middle earth” the land between
You should do jack and the beanstalk next
Ooooh!!!! Good shout!!
The cgi movie was awesome ⚔️
Two words:
Yay Crofty!
More!
1:23: 🎙 Crofty returns to the podcast after a long absence and a nine-hour time delay between England and Japan.
12:38: 📚 Tolkien, an early fantasy author and professor of Old English, had a significant influence on modern Beowulf scholarship and the development of the Lord of the Rings.
24:50: 📚 The CZcams video discusses the dating and production of the Beowulf manuscript, highlighting the presence of two different scribes and the consensus that it is a copy of an earlier document.
36:29: 📚 There is a misconception about what Old English refers to, with many people thinking it is the language of Shakespeare and Chaucer.
48:31: 📜 The video discusses the lineage of Danish kings and the construction of a Mead Hall.
1:00:39: 🗡 Beowulf arrives at Herot and requests an audience with Hrothgar, boasting of his strength and deeds.
1:11:35: 📚 The video discusses the earliest known written version of the Siegament Legend and its connection to the Volsung Saga and Beowulf.
1:23:13: 📚 The video discusses a catalog of marvelous creatures and monsters composed between the 7th and 8th centuries, with a focus on the first entry about King Hilak.
1:34:37: 📚 Beowulf and his men sail back to the hall of Helac and are greeted by the Queen, who shows the Queen's role as keeping peace and inspiring loyalty.
1:46:22: 💥 Beowulf battles the dragon with the help of Wiglaf, but is fatally wounded by the dragon's venomous bite.
1:58:21: 📚 The video discusses the different versions and details of the feud between Rothgar and Froda in Danish history.
2:11:26: 📚 Lyra was the seat of Danish power and the Fortress of the Danish Kings, according to Saxo Grammaticus.
2:23:54: 📚 The video discusses the linguistic connection between the names Beowulf and Bodvar and their similarities in saving the kingdom from a troll-like creature.
Recap by Tammy AI
42:30 awesome!
Keeping the manuscript in that house is still less egregious than hiring an advisor named Grimma Wormtoung.
The opening is the first case of someone saying, "man up"
I have found threw DNA I am English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish!! Always assumed my people were from Germany!!! I am so surprised but being mostly British and Scottish seems to suit my personality!! I just watched your Druid episode and found very I was drawn to it! Also I have 2 swords myself from Damascus , even before I knew my heritage!! Also I am a woman but love my swords, maybe I owned some in another life perhaps!!
'British and Scottish' is erroneous, as the Scottish are British. It would be like saying 'American and Texan'.
Crofty! I live in Tokyo! Would love to get a beer sometime 🍺
YAYYY!!!
WHOOOOOOOOO!!!
There was an option to translate that into English! Guess what it translated as??? Whooooo!!! 🤣
when you watch with subtitles it's funny how every time they say someone's name it shows as some alternative writing variation
You guys should read “Eaters Of The Dead” and then watch the movie “The Thirteenth Warrior.” Very good and are another spin on the Beowulf Mythology.
Is Beowulf his real name or is a title or maybe a name earned, in his name, I hear Bear and Wolf, the spirit animals of fighting men, Berserkers and Wolf Warriors. Does Beowulf's mean Berserkers/Wolf Warriors?
I wonder if either of you are familiar with the novel Grendel, which is the monster's story starting from before Beowulf arrives until the Grendel's death.
Is that the one by John Gardner?
@@Exit311 Yes
I keep picturing scenes from Skyrim as I listen to this, lol
y’all PLEASE!!!! LOTR EPISODE !!!!!
I fight with a longsword now .. I feel you
Starts at 7:30
YES
Beowulf was Swedish he was a Geat from today Västergötland wester geatland where i live next to lake Vänern.
It should be " for every one of us living in this world means waiting for our end"
It is thought that a Christian monk copied out the earlier (originally oral) pagan epic, hence the reference to Cain and a couple of other Christian intrusions into the Pagan story. Of course it has to do with the historical relations between was has become Denmark and the eastern Scandinavian culture (Geats of Sweden). Thanks for your study of the pronounciation attempts.
As a German...when you say "Robin Hood" I ALWAYS think of a folklore about people that are in the forrest, robbing people while wearing a hood. The minstels wrote songs like "beware of the robbing hood in the forrest" basicly going "oh robbing hood, robbing hood" that over times turned into ROBIN hood", because words change over time.
Based on other legends and other human history it's not uncommon for many different storys getting put togeter as one big story that people tell you about, because it's more easy to speak about 1 cool story than 20 semi good storys with lots of filler that doesnt matter.
All they did was reporting about the poor people wearing hoods and robbing the rich (because what did other poor have that you could steal?) and when the poor came back to the city with the stolen stuff they got ask "where did you get this?" and they just said "oh, the robbing hood gave it to me... I DIDNT STEAL IT....". Maybe some had enoth and gave it to friends saying "here, the robbing hood gave it to me to save you as well" speading the myth of the good guys living in the forrest and giving it to the poor... so the poor supported what ever was going on.
You should also consider that Nottingham, where robin hood is from the regional accent doesn't pronounce the 'g' at the end of robbing so robbing becomes robin.
I feel there's a lot more visual cues couldve been added, with a lot of general talk being removed making the process more practical. Otherwise, amasing knowledge and fantastic info.
I still think the cgi movie is bad ass, Ray Whinestone deserved at least a nomination for his performance.
The most important question , did reading all those old and middle English texts help pull?
❤️
2:34:54 was that a cork popping? And a second soon after?
informative
I loved the gibberish that ends with that was a good killing😂 Bla bla bla MURDER! Sounds metal as ...
Rip Grendel, but the blood remains on earth of course 😊
CROFTYY!
I'm curious, who does these illustrations for the videos?
Great episode. However, trigger warnins are weird.
I am fascinated by Grendel. A distant relative of Humbaba perhaps. One of Odins Frost Giants. I think they emigrated to North West America.
I you dive into local stories you will eventually find that Grendel was a simple forest outlaw.
I can speak for no one but myself here but I have missed Crofty's jokes and Skyrim references.
And just for fun, there was a couple episodes of Xena that featured Beowulf. It was during that period when they were butchering Norse mythology.