Gunnar, the Belgian cast is misnamed by all of us (came from Austria) and is a constant tension cast, rising on the back cast with the loop below the rod tip and the fly rising and then coming over the top of the tip on the forward cast. There is no stop on the back cast but rather a continuous movement of the rod tip with constant pressure (load) and then tracking forward as normal. Check your video at 6:18 where the fly almost hits the ground because of the stop (unloading) and at 6:29 where it hits the ground behind you. I have been a casting instructor for 21+ years and taught the FFI certification applicants. Please accept my comments as helpful for all. A constant tension cast with the line travel rearward and upward brings bulky and heavy flies to a rising position behind us and with no stop easily brings the flies over the top.
I noticed the same thing throwing a back cast. I threw an absolute bomb and said to myself what the hell am I doing on my back cast that I'm not in my forward cast. That's exactly it!! The wrist!! Thanks Gunner. Great information!!
Unreal demonstration. Went to Florida for a guided trip and was getting yelled at for using wrist even though it helped me throw 100 ft bombs into wind in New England salt. Glad I found this video to tell me I was A okay!
In regards to the wrist flick, it is helpful to think of flicking paint from a paint brush directly onto a wall in front of you (actually practiced with a brush dipped in water). When done improperly, the water creates a vertical line that starts upward into the air, downward from the top of the wall and onto the ground
very interesting vid! thanks for sharing! the belgium cast is spot on (even if it's actually a stopless cast, and it's one of the reasons why it is so nice with XH rigs). I kinda disagree with your analysis of the stop and why it's so important. energy stored in the rod is really not much. if you want to convince yourself, just stick it somewhere and use it as a catapult. you won't send a line very far this way, and much less with a big fly attached. also, interestingly, you're own cast says you're wrong on this : you try a stopless forward stroke and the loop is great... plus, hard stops tend to create tip rebound (as you mention) and that's always bad as it sends a unwanted wave into the line. actually, if you stop hard enough, you can even get a tailing loop. what I think is that all the energy in the line comes from tip acceleration, and the explosive part should be right before loop formation (which will happen at deceleration). and the explosive bit will come from the combination of extra fast late haul and wrist flick. I don't recall who explained this in a vid, but as you go down in the 3 arm joints (shoulder/elbow/wrist) power goes down but rotation speed goes higher (wrist flicks way faster than anything you could do with your shoulder). so the proper casting sequence will use the joints in sequence, starting from max power in initial acceleration (shoulder) and ending in max speed (wrist flick + haul). the problem with soft deceleration is not that it robs you energy, it's that you tend to start it too early, right in the split second where you should go full explosion in wrist/haul. but if you got that part right, what happens next has little bearing on line speed (but is has on loop shape). Look at the distance guys casting crazy long loops using the 170° technique. the back cast ends horizontally or even lower, and the loop went its way at fantastic speed long before the rod stops. anyway, again, great content, big fan here, thanks for sharing!!
Good points mate. I suspect you’ve been watching Paul Arden… Belgian cast is a constant tension cast designed to fight windy conditions and also keeps the heavy fly away from you. You’re right in that there is no stop on the backcast but I wouldn’t compare the backcast part of it with the 170 long distance cast because there is a snap wrist action on the latter, in spite of ending with a horizontal rod position. I wish someone came up with a mathematical model and simulator of the casting stroke where you could then vary each parameter and observe the resulting action.
Excellent example of how effortless it is to cast a lot of line (all that you had off the reel) at 11:21by using your wrist to speed up and stop the tip to form the loop over the rod tip. Rotation stops in this [Stop] sequence: shoulder, elbow stop, forearm stop, hand stop, micro wrist by pulling in with your lower three fingers and pushing with your thumb against the grip, with no throwing of the arm forward. A gentle relaxing of your hand on the grip at this point will dampen the flex and counter flex of the rod tip, especially in soft rods.
I'm a big fan of extending the arm (hand) as a component of the FC. There's a great interview with Steve Rajeff somewhere where he's asked, "Where does your hand finish on the FC"? and his answer was "When I run out of arm". I have adopted this approach, this longer stroke, along with a contribution of body movement has been a very positive change for me when making longer casts. Many different ways to do this.
What I did wrong when flipping the rod at the end first was not giving it one flip but as I come from drumming I more of shocked the rod at the end and it wiggled too many times not just once back and forth which always got me into a tangle in the end of the line. Well explained. Now I know what I did wrong actually. But it’s all just a lot of practice and trial and error until your body realizes what it should do and what not. Everyone has a bit of a different feel and understanding of this feels. So you gotta experience a lot of it yourself anyways within your time on the water which is for me the best way to practice.
I self taught myself to fly cast over fifty years ago and have always used my wrist and arm despite that all the experts of that time told us to cast as if we had a book pinned against our body with our arm and to absolutely keep your wrist straight without bending it! Little did they know!
If you bring back cast accelerating hard and punch arm straight behind you like you’re sticking a jab in boxing at 3/4 to sidearm fully extended elbow straight at end with solid haul you will shoot line low as hell under wind right over water with more line speed. You stop, catch, gather and bring into a normal explosively accelerated forward cast. I guided Clients for 10 years in 25-40 mile hour winds in Hawaii and those that got it could punch a 9 weight with a heavily weighted size 2-4 Spam and Eggs bonefish pattern into 30 mile hour winds. It’s an advanced concept of the Belgian and should be called the Kreh cast as Lefty did this as part of his natural stroke. Sidearm stopping I’e the “Belgian” doesn’t generate half the line speed and is inefficient once winds hit 20 plus Coach Duff PS Great Videos you’re a good instructor
I picked up an Eagle Claw 5wt quite a while ago. I don't even remember where I bought it, and I bought it just for grins. I haven't fished with it, but I use it a lot to warm up with when practicing. I can't cast it nearly as well as you. 🙂
In my pursuit which is striper centric in the California bay and delta, i have gotten to the point where I am trying to carry the back cast high, pause for the unfurl and drive slightly upward (think about a line drive) so the line can accelerate forward and slightly upward to give just a bit more distance. I like the hauling tip you gave in your big fly casting vid, timing the offhand setup to haul prior to starting the forward stroke. Gunnar you should check out some Chris Korich vids on that hammer stroke he teaches…it’s slick.
That was actually awesome… very instructive. Also not much of a three wt, kind of guy, been some small stream fishing also been eyeballing those little eagle claw 3 wt, s now I have another reason, like I need another rod lol 😆.
Redington Trout Classic 6 pc 3wt… I nymph 90% but my this little rod is my favorite above all others when I just wanna throw some dries on my little local waters. Not too bad on the pocket book, casts really nice, and damn near fits in the glove box when it’s all packed up in the tube.
Hitting the water on the backcast is invariably a consequence of either breaking the wrist excessively on the backcast directing the rod leg of the loop downwards, or from pausing too long, or a combination of both. The great advantage of the Oval cast, is that when done well, it sends the fly upwards on the backcast.
Ironically I cannot break my wrist on a cast because i have such bad arthritis that my wrists don't bend anymore lol. My fly casting isn't horrible either. I've learned to rely on my fingers to to kind of "roll" the rod in my hand so I can get that forward "flick" like I'm flicking paint from a paintbrush.
Instead of using your fist you can also (gently) squeeze the rod handle with your rod hand at the end of the forward and backward stroke. Hold the rod as loosely as possible through the stroke and at the end of the stroke squeeze the handle.
First of all I love your channel especially the fly tying. I'm just wondering why Americans use the term Belgium Cast since its just wrong.. This style of casting is called Gebetsroither Style. It was invented by Hans Gebetsroiehter who was Austrian and not from Belgium. Any ideas why Americans use Belgium Cast instead..? Regards from Germany :)
Beginners initiate their casts with the wrist, rather than finishing them with it. That’s the big difference. Good stuff mate.
Gunnar, the Belgian cast is misnamed by all of us (came from Austria) and is a constant tension cast, rising on the back cast with the loop below the rod tip and the fly rising and then coming over the top of the tip on the forward cast. There is no stop on the back cast but rather a continuous movement of the rod tip with constant pressure (load) and then tracking forward as normal. Check your video at 6:18 where the fly almost hits the ground because of the stop (unloading) and at 6:29 where it hits the ground behind you. I have been a casting instructor for 21+ years and taught the FFI certification applicants. Please accept my comments as helpful for all.
A constant tension cast with the line travel rearward and upward brings bulky and heavy flies to a rising position behind us and with no stop easily brings the flies over the top.
I really appreciate the helpful comment Mike! Hopefully everyone else who reads it will also learn from it and appreciate it as such!
Priceless information!
Thx from a sea trout only fly fisherman from the Baltic Sea.
Tight lines from the most northern part of Germany 🇩🇪
I noticed the same thing throwing a back cast. I threw an absolute bomb and said to myself what the hell am I doing on my back cast that I'm not in my forward cast. That's exactly it!! The wrist!! Thanks Gunner. Great information!!
I rally enjoy casting that rod. Great video
Unreal demonstration. Went to Florida for a guided trip and was getting yelled at for using wrist even though it helped me throw 100 ft bombs into wind in New England salt. Glad I found this video to tell me I was A okay!
You're not only a great tyer, you're also a great caster, thank's for the information!
This is the best casting instructiuonal video. Thank you.
Thanks Gunnar. You're always full if useful information. Keep the good stuff coming.
Another great lesson.thanks for posting
In regards to the wrist flick, it is helpful to think of flicking paint from a paint brush directly onto a wall in front of you (actually practiced with a brush dipped in water). When done improperly, the water creates a vertical line that starts upward into the air, downward from the top of the wall and onto the ground
very interesting vid! thanks for sharing!
the belgium cast is spot on (even if it's actually a stopless cast, and it's one of the reasons why it is so nice with XH rigs). I kinda disagree with your analysis of the stop and why it's so important. energy stored in the rod is really not much. if you want to convince yourself, just stick it somewhere and use it as a catapult. you won't send a line very far this way, and much less with a big fly attached. also, interestingly, you're own cast says you're wrong on this : you try a stopless forward stroke and the loop is great... plus, hard stops tend to create tip rebound (as you mention) and that's always bad as it sends a unwanted wave into the line. actually, if you stop hard enough, you can even get a tailing loop.
what I think is that all the energy in the line comes from tip acceleration, and the explosive part should be right before loop formation (which will happen at deceleration). and the explosive bit will come from the combination of extra fast late haul and wrist flick. I don't recall who explained this in a vid, but as you go down in the 3 arm joints (shoulder/elbow/wrist) power goes down but rotation speed goes higher (wrist flicks way faster than anything you could do with your shoulder). so the proper casting sequence will use the joints in sequence, starting from max power in initial acceleration (shoulder) and ending in max speed (wrist flick + haul).
the problem with soft deceleration is not that it robs you energy, it's that you tend to start it too early, right in the split second where you should go full explosion in wrist/haul. but if you got that part right, what happens next has little bearing on line speed (but is has on loop shape).
Look at the distance guys casting crazy long loops using the 170° technique. the back cast ends horizontally or even lower, and the loop went its way at fantastic speed long before the rod stops.
anyway, again, great content, big fan here, thanks for sharing!!
Good points mate. I suspect you’ve been watching Paul Arden…
Belgian cast is a constant tension cast designed to fight windy conditions and also keeps the heavy fly away from you. You’re right in that there is no stop on the backcast but I wouldn’t compare the backcast part of it with the 170 long distance cast because there is a snap wrist action on the latter, in spite of ending with a horizontal rod position.
I wish someone came up with a mathematical model and simulator of the casting stroke where you could then vary each parameter and observe the resulting action.
Excellent example of how effortless it is to cast a lot of line (all that you had off the reel) at 11:21by using your wrist to speed up and stop the tip to form the loop over the rod tip. Rotation stops in this [Stop] sequence: shoulder, elbow stop, forearm stop, hand stop, micro wrist by pulling in with your lower three fingers and pushing with your thumb against the grip, with no throwing of the arm forward. A gentle relaxing of your hand on the grip at this point will dampen the flex and counter flex of the rod tip, especially in soft rods.
I'm a big fan of extending the arm (hand) as a component of the FC. There's a great interview with Steve Rajeff somewhere where he's asked, "Where does your hand finish on the FC"? and his answer was "When I run out of arm". I have adopted this approach, this longer stroke, along with a contribution of body movement has been a very positive change for me when making longer casts. Many different ways to do this.
@@petermorse5442 Thank you Peter. I am a follower of your instruction along with Peter Hayes and Tony, etc. Best Fishes
@@mikefranz6820 No worries Mike, I have some recent casting clips up on my own channel as well.
What I did wrong when flipping the rod at the end first was not giving it one flip but as I come from drumming I more of shocked the rod at the end and it wiggled too many times not just once back and forth which always got me into a tangle in the end of the line.
Well explained. Now I know what I did wrong actually. But it’s all just a lot of practice and trial and error until your body realizes what it should do and what not. Everyone has a bit of a different feel and understanding of this feels. So you gotta experience a lot of it yourself anyways within your time on the water which is for me the best way to practice.
Thanks man awesome video, going to try and check out more videos on the Belgium cast .
Unbelievable, glad I found this👍
I self taught myself to fly cast over fifty years ago and have always used my wrist and arm despite that all the experts of that time
told us to cast as if we had a book pinned against our body with our arm and to absolutely keep your wrist straight
without bending it! Little did they know!
Oh yeah, the book under your arm mantra. 😊
If you bring back cast accelerating hard and punch arm straight behind you like you’re sticking a jab in boxing at 3/4 to sidearm fully extended elbow straight at end with solid haul you will shoot line low as hell under wind right over water with more line speed. You stop, catch, gather and bring into a normal explosively accelerated forward cast. I guided Clients for 10 years in 25-40 mile hour winds in Hawaii and those that got it could punch a 9 weight with a heavily weighted size 2-4 Spam and Eggs bonefish pattern into 30 mile hour winds. It’s an advanced concept of the Belgian and should be called the Kreh cast as Lefty did this as part of his natural stroke. Sidearm stopping I’e the “Belgian” doesn’t generate half the line speed and is inefficient once winds hit 20 plus
Coach Duff
PS Great Videos you’re a good instructor
I picked up an Eagle Claw 5wt quite a while ago. I don't even remember where I bought it, and I bought it just for grins. I haven't fished with it, but I use it a lot to warm up with when practicing. I can't cast it nearly as well as you. 🙂
Thanks for sharing. I need to practice .
In my pursuit which is striper centric in the California bay and delta, i have gotten to the point where I am trying to carry the back cast high, pause for the unfurl and drive slightly upward (think about a line drive) so the line can accelerate forward and slightly upward to give just a bit more distance. I like the hauling tip you gave in your big fly casting vid, timing the offhand setup to haul prior to starting the forward stroke. Gunnar you should check out some Chris Korich vids on that hammer stroke he teaches…it’s slick.
Dry casting without a fly is one thing. I'd like to see this same demonstration with a hookless heavy fly to see how things work.
Thanks heaps for that mate learnt a whole lot.
I fuckin love this guy.......THAT SHIT WAS SICK!!! LOLLLLLL Hell yea it was my dude....
It did help thanks man !!
That was actually awesome… very instructive. Also not much of a three wt, kind of guy, been some small stream fishing also been eyeballing those little eagle claw 3 wt, s now I have another reason, like I need another rod lol 😆.
Redington Trout Classic 6 pc 3wt… I nymph 90% but my this little rod is my favorite above all others when I just wanna throw some dries on my little local waters. Not too bad on the pocket book, casts really nice, and damn near fits in the glove box when it’s all packed up in the tube.
Hitting the water on the backcast is invariably a consequence of either breaking the wrist excessively on the backcast directing the rod leg of the loop downwards, or from pausing too long, or a combination of both. The great advantage of the Oval cast, is that when done well, it sends the fly upwards on the backcast.
I’ve thought of getting one of those rods. I’m sold lol
Ironically I cannot break my wrist on a cast because i have such bad arthritis that my wrists don't bend anymore lol. My fly casting isn't horrible either. I've learned to rely on my fingers to to kind of "roll" the rod in my hand so I can get that forward "flick" like I'm flicking paint from a paintbrush.
I couldn't roll cast for crap until I learned to flick my wrist at the end.
Instead of using your fist you can also (gently) squeeze the rod handle with your rod hand at the end of the forward and backward stroke. Hold the rod as loosely as possible through the stroke and at the end of the stroke squeeze the handle.
Great presentation. What line are you using?
Awedome video Gunnar Interested in that El cheapo rod any link to it? Gonna hand it to my son as well
First of all I love your channel especially the fly tying. I'm just wondering why Americans use the term Belgium Cast since its just wrong.. This style of casting is called Gebetsroither Style. It was invented by Hans Gebetsroiehter who was Austrian and not from Belgium. Any ideas why Americans use Belgium Cast instead..?
Regards from Germany :)
Do you practice with just the fly line or do you have a leader on there?
thanks for share the skill, but 720p in 2021 was just....
Dude know u do t me from Adam. But I have created something and hareline ran with it. Blane k knows If u like reach out to me