PSA: I Found a Fatal Flaw in the BigSkyMX! Can Strymon Fix it??
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- UPDATES:
- June 10, 2024, after much back and forth with Strymon Service, they were able to recreate the clipping based on my settings. Said it was not a hardware issue and might be something they address in a future firmware update, but make no guarantees. They said under “normal circumstances” this will not happen. I guess guitar into pedal is not normal! 🤣 Shoegazers beware, the BSMX may disappoint you.
- May 31, 2024, I received this message direct from Strymon support, “The INFINITE can clip if the signal builds enough within the pedal and is tied to input level. It will always clip eventually, just due to the nature of how it works and how it builds the signal on itself. This means that if it runs into an amp sim that is also generating gain, it could be clipping the amp sim or the HX (Stomp).” This tells me they knew/know but haven’t given any mention or note to potential buyers that you can’t use the BSMX with gain this feels problematic.
- May 30, 2024, I have sent the settings to Strymon for them to investigate and recreate. Will update wirh findings.
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Hey there! As of this date, May 24, 2014, with firmware 01.98, the @strymon BigSkyMX (BSMX) has a undeniable flaw within the software. Whenever you're in infinite mode, the buildup creates audible digital clipping, with EVERY algorithm. (You can jump to 4:52 to hear what I’m talking about.)
The infinite mode "capture(s) and sustain(s) the reverb applied to your signal indefinitely...to all input signals." (Strymon BigSkyMX Manual, pg. 21 www.strymon.ne...) This is by far one of my favorite new features on the BSMX, but with this clipping, I can't use it! I don't want to use it! I mean I want to, but NOT with the clipping! Why is it doing this? Can it be fixed? What do you think?
I'll update you all on here AS SOON AS THIS IS FIXED!!!
…also some people have confused my usage of FREEZE and INFINITE, and informed me I was wrong. “It’s not rocket science” was my favorite comment. I agree. It’s not 🚀 🧬, however it seems like I need to go over it again, so that’s in here too (1:38). No hate though, just love.
EDIT: I've found that you can lower the OUTPUT LEVEL of the preset and get rid of the clipping. However, I only found success at OUTPUT LEVEL 2 (out of 16), which also greatly reduces the output of the reverb as well! So not really a fix??
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#strymon #bigsky #bigskymx #reverb #stereo #dualreverb #digitalclipping #unusable #pedalflaw #fatalflaw #npd #freeze #infinite #rocketscience
Has it been mentioned to try in line level mode? The clipping is likely for too hot a signal on the input. Line level may have enough headroom.
Not yet but that’s a great idea! Will check that out!
Whoo... I am intersted in this pedal, but yea, that is pretty severe and I'm suprisedwith Strymons quality control that this was not picked up on... are you sure it's not just overloading you amp sim? Have you tried lowering the output? And is it the same when you do? Thanks for sharing.
I’ve moved it into the FX loop and same deal. Only fix I’ve found is lowering the output level of the reverb down to 2 out of 16, but then the reverb is too quiet so I have to gain it up later adding a whole bunch of noise
I would have preferred to hear the Strymon directly connected to the computer's A/D converter and nothing else. It could be the Line6 HX Stomp's input getting saturated.
I can do that tonight and take the stomp completely out of the chain. Would you trust me to report back on here or do you need to see/hear it for yourself? No wrong answer
@@thepedalcollaborative
Both? 😁
Okey dokey!
@@thepedalcollaborative
And the verdict?
Verdict is still out. Did some prelim testing and still came out with clipping every time. I want to replicate it several times in multiple ways before putting more on the internet. Lol
The bsmx is probably putting out too much signal for the hx stomp
You should switch both devices to line level
Yes I do need to test them at line level. I keep forgetting 🤦🏻♂️
At instruments level though the clipping persists with the BSMX after the stomp, as well as in the FX loop, as well as with the input turned all the way down on the stomp.
I’ll report back on the line vs instrument level. Thanks for the reminder
Same issue. But with dual reverb with good settings, you can fix it!
Strymon knows about it. Not sure if they’re going to “fix” it. I have a workaround that I’ll load up a vid later. But yeah
might be the output volume pushing the “tubes” of the amp in the HX Stomp? Does it clip like this in the effects loop after the “amp”?
…likewise, does it clip when placed after the HX Stomp?
That’s a fantastic and logical suggestion! Just tried in the FX look and it still clips. Instantly stops when the BSMX is turned off.
I’ll have to reconfigure my set up to place it after the Stomp since it’s connected directly to my computer. I have another interface I’ll just have to do that swap. I’ll report back!
awesome. Would love to see if, after placing the BSMX after the HXstonp, the clipping occurs at the interface or not.
Initial tests has it even if not in the stomp at all. I used a different interface (Audient Sono) and still experienced it. Now I need to level the signals to see if it’s the same between the two.
Interestingly enough I turned the input on the stomp all the way down and still had the clipping come through 🤔
Initial testing says yes. I put it through a different interface (Audient Sono) and still experienced it. Now I’m going to level out the two interfaces to compare apples to apples.
Interestingly enough I rolled the input going into the Stomp all the way down and still heard the clipping.
Great info! I just got one last week and have decided to keep it. It sounds absolutely amazing and will be replacing my Flint and Cloudburst. I personally thought the "broken" sound was pretty cool but definitely something that'll likely be patched as it's not supposed to do that (right?). Anyway, Strymon knows what's up so I'm sure it'll be fixed soon hopefully! In the meantime, I'll probably stick to freeze mode and let my El Cap do the oscillating thing.
Oh yeah, aside from this “broken “sound it sounds incredible. If it’s something that you like as is, that’s great! I’m sure a lot of people may not be bothered by it, especially if you throw spies after Reverb, for example. Or put this into an amplifier With a bit of gain or natural distortion. For me, I like pristine clarity as my basis finding this out was a disappointment. Maybe I’m the only one. Maybe I’m asking too much IDK lol
@@thepedalcollaborative No that's fair. And I'm sure they'll fix it. I feel like most digital pedals end up going through an update or two post-launch. I'm just saying I didn't hate the chaotic "out of control" clipping oscillation thing. It reminds me of what my El Cap does when I do infinite repeats. It builds and builds and eventually starts to sound broken and clip, etc. That's always been my experience with this type of effect but maybe it's just not showing up well on my phone? Either way, I'm sure they'll fix it! Strymon is no slouch.
@ryanlineaweaver8220 IMO this should never have come to market like this…BUT if they can fix it, no harm no foul!
Has this been confirmed with a different BigSkyMX? In other words, this has been confirmed to be a design problem affecting all units and not one defective one?
Brilliant question! Only other person I know with one currently would be @nickreesyt
@strymon : this is concerning…I’m waiting for my MX to arrive…any official recognition of what we’re hearing in this video? (Wishful thinking they’ll see this, led alone respond here)
I’m hoping they do! Their response to me via Instagram was to email support. I’m waiting to hear back
its a thing. I noticed this in about 15 mins of owning the pedal as it was one of the features I was excited about. I actually used it for a gig recently and once I'd sustained a few notes then had to press to switch off the reverb, whilst staying in infinite mode, so it didn't sound messed up whilst I carried on playing with other pedals. did the job but shouldn't be a concern.
Oh, that’s an interesting workaround! So did you engage the preset switch, then engage the incident switch to sustain a few notes or chords, then disengage the preset switch? What did that do to the incoming signal? Did that operate similarly to the freeze function at that point?
What do you think is going on with it? Not enough headroom? JFET pre input too high? I’m trying to figure out what the root cause is simply for my understanding.
Workaround or not though, for $680 this should be addressed.
Definitely was getting one... If its the input volume being the problem and the big sky can't compensate internally for the amount of #$$$...
Might keep shopping 🛒
I’m really hoping it gets fixed. I’m quite hopeful it will. Currently in this form, this function is not usable to me. Which is quite the shame for the dollar amount spent, and the level of excitement I had about this function.
Im glad you did this. Thanks. I have heard the clipping on other demos myself. This is definitely something strymon had to know about in beta. No way this went unnoticed.
I have read even bringing levels way down going into BSMX is still creating this issue. Its very present over the different algos. They are going to have to fix that in a fw update and then i will get one. Until then im going to wait because clipping crackles/distortion bothers me more than anything in music production.
Hearing clipping like this is like when you go to play a gig with 15 titles on your board all perfectly in a row with custom patch cabling looking all neat and professional, and there’s a short in one of them. You pull all your hair out, trying to figure out what’s going on ha ha
I’m fairly certain this is fixable with a firmware update, but the chance does remain that it’s a hardware issue, which then wouldn’t be fixable. If it’s just an input level, I get that from a gain stage perspective, but in this video I was guitar straight into the BSMX no overdrive or anything! The only way I could have lowered the input signal is to lower my guitar’s volume, but then for playing, I’d have to retrain myself on never maxing out my guitar volume nor using overdrive or anything. Seems like a tall ask just to play a single pedal.
@@thepedalcollaborative exactly and that is just not ok for a 679.00 pedal. The only thing you could do is put an eq pedal before it which is ridiculous tbh and make cuts on gain and other frequencies. To me sounds like a firmware fix and not a hardware issue here but then again i don’t know for sure. Any idea what they could do with the firmware to fix it? Im sure some type of db cuts or frequency cuts but thats the most i can think of to deal with. I was about to pull the trigger on this to
@joeymc5272 keep in mind that many people do reverb LAST, which means you’d have to lower the output of EVERYTHING coming into the BSMX. Boost pedal to push your OD and amp into breakup? Forget it.
Now, what we’re essentially talking about here is headroom, measured in dB. This could be the overall headroom throughout the whole signal chain within the reverb, or the headroom at a specific location where INFINITE is occurring. My guess there is the feedback loop. Now, IF we’re just talking headroom in the feedback loop, then in theory they could add a firmware update that gives you the ability to adjust the input gain BEFORE the feedback loop, and then be able to compensate for loss AFTER the feedback loop.
However is its overall headroom of the pedal itself that is likely hardware, and while they could probably squeeze an extra dB or two via a firmware update, they will be limited to the specifications of the hardware they’re using.
I’m speculating here on both accounts, so a circuit engineer would probably have more insight.
That makes a lot of sense. Hopefully its not a hardware situation because if so that makes infinite unusable for adding multiple notes for example as the feedback loop will definitely clip. Hopefully they can add an input gain level control within a firmware update and then problem solved everybody happy. Freeze function is fine but designated a stomp to just a freeze function and unusable infinite is not ok at the price point in my opinion. I think i will wait until news comes out as im guessing other people have brought this to their attention so far.
@joeymc5272 whatever the issue is, whether it’s just a few units, firmware, or hardware, Strymon will make it right. They’re a legit company!
Yikes, that is a big problem. Hopefully Strymon fixes that asap. The only suggestion I can think of is maybe running the MX after the stomp. This might help a little bit, putting it after the amps, but it seems like it'd probably still be the MX (since it was clipping even on lower reverb settings.) Is there an input volume cut internally on the mx? That might also be another possibility. I had that issue with my poly effects Beebo.
There’s no input volume cut afaik. Maybe in globals? I’ll have to check.
As long as it’s a firmware issue it can be fixed.
I can try it after the Stomp but I think that will only make it worse 🤣
Holy shit that sounds bad when it gets feeding back. Wild. I’m sure they’ll patch this.
I’m sure they will too! I’m getting used to it. Doesn’t sound as offensive as it did initially. Still not something I want to have to deal with though. 🤣
Personally think it’s a cool sound. At least giving me ideas on how I would love to use it. Especially with the dramatic cut when it’s not in spillover.
Honestly another reason I really like the MercuryX. You can add all sorts of grit and degradation in your reverb. You can’t add that intentionally into the BSMX, minus this clipping, which I don’t want 😆
Stick with the Mercury X. It’s also cheaper!!!
Oh I am! Honestly it wasn’t even a question before finding this out. The MercuryX just has more options that I like
At that price, they should have used 32-bit floating point.
They did actually. 800-mhz tri-core ARM 32-but floating
I had clipping in mine too but i thought it was my input levels. I thought I was crazy. Jeez.
Edit: can’t replicate it on my amp versus the quad cortex and only clips at the most saturated infinite mode. (Utter max)
Did you figure out what was going on or how to make it stop?
i had ran it through fx loop on my quad cortex and it opened up a discovery on the input levels on there.
found out it was the input signal.
So i dropped my QC’s input level to 0db and it went away. only started clipping at ungodly levels of infinity when i forced it to.
It could be that your guitars output must be hot. Ran it direct to test with my amp.
Gtr > BSMX > amp
Tried to replicate but it didnt clip.
@user-gv3vq7jg5h mine has clipped with just my guitar, which is a Fender Tele with a Seth Lover HB in the neck and reversed 51 nocaster in the bridge. I haven’t measured their specific outputs, but I wouldn’t consider this a “hot” guitar, but I could be wrong? 🤷🏻
Update: I’m currently running through my matchless spitfire.
Tested both instrument level and line level.
Nothing on Plate.
Nothing on cloud.
If you really really push hard you get a soothing clipping on bloom.
Can’t replicate it 😢
It’s likely whatever output you’re sending into the bsmx (either direct or fx loop) is far too much of a signal for it to handle.. sorry my man
I tried maxing both high end and low end on the tone knob - still nothing.
Maybe slight rumble of the speaker when I kept playing the C on the A string. But that’s me plucking vigorously.
big yikes.
I think you mean BigSkyMX.
MX stands for MercuryX
I think by “big yikes” he just means “BIG YIKES” aha
@JackSole17 I know. I was just instigating 🤣
Horrible, Ain't no way in hell that I am considering this pedal if that's the case. I could buy a new computer and run Vahalla or buy the Meris! This endless wash thing is really starting to get old. Where's the music guys?
Can’t hear the music due to the clipping! Haha!!
Jk, I’m sure they’ll fix this
I continue to fail to understand the seemingly universal love of Strymon pedals. That's insanely bad and unacceptable. Honestly even if it wasn't clipping half of those algos would sound like some of the cheesiest reverbs I've ever heard in my life. Every time I see a Big Sky on a board I think "maybe there's just something I'm missing?" lol the pedal community is unintentionally gaslighting me with this ish.
🤣 🤣 🤣 gaslighting for sure! Tbh I’ve never loved the BigSky. Even the OG. I maybe used 1 algo and that’s it. I’m a fan of Strymon delays though. El cap, volante, brig, deco, maybe the TimelineMX when it comes out if it doesn’t have this clipping issue. Haha
Reverbs though I dug the Bluesky for a bit and the Flint for a hot minute. Cloudburst is cool for its thing. Everything else is just meh to me.
@@thepedalcollaborative yeah I'm way more ok with their delays than reverbs. The Volante and TimeLine are cool, but the 'verbs all sound way too digital/processed etc...like there's a layer of sheen over everything before you get to the actual sound. Their stuff is all very high quality but to me it's kinda like, if I'm going to go that digital I'm just gonna go with Eventide or Meris and get sounds that are straight bonkers
@experimentalchris and a mighty fine opinion to have! I haven’t messed with the H90 to see about those reverbs. I really should. The Meris is bonkers in the best way!