The Bottomless Rabbit Hole of Japanese Train Controllers | Punching Weight | SSFF
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- The first 500 people to use this link and code SSFF30 will get 30% off their first subscription with Soylent: bit.ly/49yYZ9n
Fell down a deep rabbit hole and clawed my way back. I know too much about train controllers now.
☠Credits ☠
Written and Shot by Derek Alexander
Edited by Derek Alexander and SoberDwarf
T-Shirt Design by 1000 Dead Draculas ► / 1000deaddraculas
Thumbnail by Daniel Alba ► / evernightstudio
Chiptune cover of "Not the Same" by 3xBlast ► • Kickblips (THPS Chiptu...
Intro/Outro Music by ☠ ► hellstarplus.bandcamp.com/alb...
Artwork and Bumper by Studio Goblin ☠ ► www.studiogoblin.co.uk
00:00 - Hey I’m Derek It’s Me Derek
00:54 - Soylent Ad Spot
02:25 - What is Densha de GO!?
03:15 - Densha Controller Up Close
04:22 - A True Story...
05:58 - Let’s Play Densha de GO!
07:30 - Playstation Port
11:15 - Densha de GO! EX for Sega Saturn
13:22 - Densha de GO! 2 for Dreamcast
15:40 - Japanese Train Controller Legacy
22:20 - Playing Doom on a Densha!
29:51 - Quake Trilogy and Duke Nukem 3D
34:07 - Unreal Tournament
35:51 - Puzzle Bobble / Bust-A-Move
39:27 - Street Fighter & Marvel vs Capcom 2
43:55 - Power Stone, Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter
45:13 - SoulCalibur
48:54 - Tekken
50:25 - Tony Hawk Pro Skater
51:01 - Resident Evil
51:26 - Mascot Games
51:56 - Other Vehicles
53:14 - and of course, Virtual Hydlide
53:38 - So many people made this video happen!!
#stopskeletons #denshadego #trainsimulator - Hry
The first 500 people to use this link and code SSFF30 will get 30% off their first subscription with Soylent: bit.ly/49yYZ9n
Okay but wait - did Tyler Durden suplex a train?
No thanks
Imagine drinking this filth
@@invaderzim1842 That's wonderful. Support creators by dissing their sponsors. The stuff's actually not bad. Was a good lunch replacement for me a couple of times a week.
Glad you’re getting paid but Soylent is genuinely a messed up company. Take one look at the Wikipedia page.
Alright, but if they release a Green variant, I'm out.
ATS is Automatic Train Stop. Basically you fucked up so bad the train thinks you are probably incapacitated and stops itself
"Awful train-ing, stupid."
LMAO
The way it worked for a long time is that trains have emergency brake valves mounted on the side and there are mechanical "trippers" or "train stops" on the side of the track that will stick up if the track signal is red or if you are going too fast.
It's increasingly being computerized of course, with the train itself automatically stopping if it detects a violation.
A so-called "dead man's switch"
@@DaneeBoundYep, particularly when it comes to high speed rails, like the Frecciarossa 1000 in Italy.
"Yes Derek, we still have it" made me laugh SO HARD
11:07 The clip of the guy pulling out a measuring tape to see if the train was "good enough," and everyone else waiting for the official measurement before anyone was willing to get on was extremely funny to me.
I think that's from a commercial for one of the Densha De Go games
@@Enecororo97well at least they are self aware about how absurd it is if your train stops 1 meter of the desired place.
My brain read 'Japanese Train Controllers'.
My brain asked 'What?!'.
My brain saw Derek.
"Click"
Caddicarus has a fun video with them too.
Edit: it’s in the video lol.
YES!
I did wonder if he got it off Caddy XD
I half expected this to be some thing that someone had created using some game consoles to manage some model train layouts. Considering some of the things they use at the yearly christmas displays near me, that kind of thing would not surprise me
“Yes, Derek, we still have it.”
He could sense your impending demands.
You think you'll be remembered for this? Good luck, Uncle Zeebo.
32:27 HEY I'M ZARITHYA, THAT'S ME ZARITHYA
Glad I could help you fix your busted capture card!
👀
Do you work on electronics regularly? Or was that a one off stream?
@@steph_fergi I actually try to stream electronics repair and stuff like that every Tuesday!
I went and looked up the protocol for the controller and it's slightly insane.
On the Playstation, it always holds up and down on the dpad, then uses triangle, left, and right as three bits for the power lever and L1, L2, R1, and R2 as four bits for the brake.
So if you pull back to power 5 you should go straight, then 2 and 4 let you turn.
What's really weird is they use this sort of crazy mapping on every console, even though most of them let you say "yo I'm a weird game specific controller" natively.
Sounds like you could use one of those micro computers to translate this into something more sensible for the specific game.
@@henke37 You could, but you could also use software on the computer running the game.
Ah! Thanks for the details on its protocol!
Interesting. I imagine the controller always holding down is probably a detect feature the game checks to see if there's the train controller connect, otherwise assume the player is using a regular PS1 controller and map the controls accordingly
I like that all the music you used is just train stage themes from various games
Que haces aqui?!
I kinda wish he didn't add any music at all. I'm watching this video about weird chill trains for, well, the weird chill trains, I don't need Mario Kart music
2 dozen or so controllers for these train games, and like 80% of them make sure to include the spot to place the conductor's pocket watch.
It was such an odd detail that I had to look into it. Apparently there was an official watch for these controllers. Uncle Derek, keep an eye out
The reason it says "Densya" is because of different standards of how Japanese characters are converted (or "romanized") into English letters.
Most of us are familiar with what is known as "Hepburn-shiki", where certain characters like しゃ are written as "sha". But in another system "Kunrei-shiki", しゃ becomes "sya".
The Japanese government officially uses and prefers Kunrei, but most other people prefer or are just used to Hepburn. So that's why it says "Densya" and not "Densha". Love ya Uncle Derek!!
Even the Japanese government recently changed its stance on Kunrei in favor of Hepburn
That's really interesting, thanks for the info!
To add, while Hepburn makes a lot more phonetic sense to someone who natively uses the alphabet in english, there is still a logic to kunrei especially for native japanese. While 'sya' may look strange, in japanese that sound is denoted with しゃ or 'shi' followed by a small 'ya'. The english 's' indicates it's of the 'sa s(h)i su se so' characters and the 'ya' indicates the ゃ as well as the final vowel sound (as opposed to something like 'syo' しょ).
I still vastly prefer Hepburn though.
So like… 続ける would be romanized as tudukeru?
It makes sense for native speakers but man that feels very weird. But I suppose if the Japanese government uses Hepburn now they realized it’s probably better to use a system more intuitive for foreigners since that’s going to be the primary user of romanized signs.
@@medalkingslime4844 yes, and you can even use kunrei when typing which is often fewer keystrokes, though only debatably more efficient. It throws me that many older japanese typing games use Kunrei and my brain doesn't like it.
Though I will say I actually prefer things like ぢ-di and づ-du. Frankly, I mix the two systems in everyday use.
The Green One, it’s just Mint, and Chocolate, and People…
lol I thought the same thing. Soylent brown was the stuff from a different story where people drink people but it was a chocolate drink that time.
@@fullauto86what? There was another story about people eating people in the form of Soylent + (a color) but instead of Soylent green, it was brown? Wtf?
@@Yixdyyeah that's definitely new to me lol
@@YixdySoylent Green had multiple different colours, although brown was not one of them
I played this game in Japan last year….
IT WAS A FULL SIZED TRAIN COCKPIT YOU WALK INTO!
I’m not sure but I think that arcade cabinet had full surround sound, vibration, and high definition recreations of train lines. My sister watched me play and said it was entertaining despite having no idea what was happening
As an owner of two Power Shovel controllers I can tell you that the controller does in fact work with the NTSC version of the game and system!
I didn't even know Power Shovel was part of this series.
And my hopes were, indeed, shot down when I heard the JP controller doesn't work on the US version
Derek was tempted to finish the video with "That's it for the moment. As always, thanks for watching."
???
@@theincrediblegeneral5135 It's a reference to Techmoan, who generally makes videos about old audio tech but has made one about train games and their dedicated controllers.
@@MeanderBot 😅 I thought this felt familiar
@@MeanderBot oh thanks! I haven't watched techmoan in a bit!
Yay uncle Derek!
WHEN WILL THESE SKELETONS STOP FIGHTING ALREADYYYYY
Keep watching and maybe they will 😎😎😎
I was waiting for the Soylent Green reference on the promo.
Don't you get it!? Soylent Green is People, It's People!
Made from the best people on earth
Did you seriously Tyler Durden in the Train Suplex, Derek?
....Niiiice.
Hahaha Derek, my man, “don’t act like you’re on my level of dumb” immediately after “here’s all the patrons that paid for it” that was either advanced trash talk or hilariously unfortunate.
If you wanna do a follow-up Punching Weight to this video; check out the original PSP version!! It actually uses fully pre-rendered video to display the graphics, and it's one of the most ambitious things I've seen on the PSP! You could also check out the translated N64 version and a few of the other ports, this game goes a lot deeper than just these three ports!
45:49 Technically, Soul Edge IS the correct name, and that's what the arcade and Japanese PS1 versions go by. It was renamed Soulblade in the US and Europe due to a trademark issue over the word "Edge". Infact, that's why the sequel was called SoulCalibur, just so they wouldn't have to deal with this again.
oh god I remember that. the one magazine that claimed to own the word edge in all contexts.
@@keiyakins the twit responsible for maybe one of the two times EA was remotely sympathetic?
@@keiyakinsAlmost. The gaming magazine was actually a victim of the Edge copyright/trademark trolling.
The guy who changed the name was Tim Langdell, based on the fact that he owned a defunct ZX Spectrum publisher called the "the edge games". He was eventually destroyed by EA and their lawyers whom discovered the evidence he had submitted to prove he was still using the trademark was either fabricated or a straight up lie. So his trademark was invalidated. Then the edge magazine sued him, and it turned out he'd lied and fabricated evidence to convince them to pay him a fee for the name, and then he fabricated further evidence during that court case and lost.
So yeah. Not the gaming magazine. Tim Langdell.
@@keiyakinsAlmost. The gaming magazine was actually a victim of the Edge copyright/trademark trolling.
The guy who changed the name was Tim Langdell, based on the fact that he owned a defunct ZX Spectrum publisher called the "the edge games". He was eventually destroyed by EA and their lawyers whom discovered the evidence he had submitted to prove he was still using the trademark was either fabricated or a straight up lie. So his trademark was invalidated. Then the edge magazine sued him, and it turned out he'd lied and fabricated evidence to convince them to pay him a fee for the name, and then he fabricated further evidence during that court case and lost.
So yeah. Not the gaming magazine. Tim Langdell.
I still remember the "SOUUULLL... EDGE" title announcer voice in the arcade version back in the 90s...
god I'm old
6:12
It says "Densya", because most Japanese use Kunrei-shiki romanization for their language.
Most Westerners use Hepburn romanization, which would say "Densha", which is closer to the Japanese pronunciation.
Came here to mostly say this, although as I understand it Hepburn, or specifically Revised Hepburn, has overtaken other methods of romanisation, and in January it was proposed to make Hepburn the official romanisation system of Japan, replacing Kunrei-shiki, which is officially the standard but not really used as much. All railway station signage uses Hepburn these days too, which made visiting railway museums interesting as old signs taken from stations have different romanisation methods on.
Well hey, thanks guys. I learned something today.
@@petershillitoyeah, visiting the Kyoto railway museum was kinda weird because I was used to Hepburn
I like trains.
I like Uncle Derek.
I like controllers.
This video has it all.
That callout to Caddy at the beginning.
I really do wish we have localized versions of the games, sometimes, as... stressful as they are.
Also gotta love the "I'm the best at trains!" while hiding your final score because you still did awful despite you pay-to-winning via continues. I feel like you got bankrupt not because of buying the controllers, but because you spent all your money on having to continue on every stage.
I wish the countries would share more strange and weird stuff like this..!
Crazy Taxi but with Trains, alright talented indie developers. Derek has laid down the challenge, it’s up to you to make it Real. Bonus points if it’s compatible with these Train Controllers.
Does Snakeybus count?
compatibility with these wouldn't be too hard, actually. The mappings are weird but perfectly possible to work with, and there's even example code out there because train people wrote input plugins for modern simulators because of course they did.
It's the Initial D train game footage that got me on the floor.
Multi-track drifting is real 2401
Bonus points if you can licence Ozzy's Crazy Train.
I got really into Densha De Go a while back, starting with the N64 game which turned out to be a smart move because it’s one of the few translated versions. The translation helped me learn most of the symbols and warnings, so I didn’t quite have the same experience of confusion as to what all the warnings meant. But it’s still a tough game, and it really does go from peaceful railway riding to stressful management of lots of different variables at the drop of a hat.
Yeah, I have been playing the japanese Densha De Go on PS1 back in the day. Im enjoying it still but didnt understand how to properly play until translation of DDG 64 came. It teach me about coasting, the meaning of the sign and how to properly play it. There is also translation patch for Densha De GO Final PC version, but after playing the 64 version we all will understand how to play properly in the rest of the series
45:45
Edit: please read the first reply, I misremembered the facts
Don't apologise, the game was originally called Soul Edge until a bullshit lawsuit by a gaming magazine that believed that they owned the rights to the word "Edge" for video games and related media.
Almost. The gaming magazine was actually a victim of the Edge copyright/trademark trolling.
The guy who changed the name was Tim Langdell, based on the fact that he owned a defunct ZX Spectrum publisher called the "the edge games". He was eventually destroyed by EA and their lawyers whom discovered the evidence he had submitted to prove he was still using the trademark was either fabricated or a straight up lie. So his trademark was invalidated. Then the edge magazine sued him, and it turned out he'd lied and fabricated evidence to convince them to pay him a fee for the name, and then he fabricated further evidence during that court case and lost.
So yeah. Not the gaming magazine. Tim Langdell.
@@failedstateupdate ah, guess I misremembered, thanks for the correction
@@failedstateupdateYou need to send this to Larry Bundy Jr.
I own the original Densha de Go! Plug & Play (which happens to be the second version, as the first one apparently had some issues), and it's a really impressive device. It's not simply "based" on the PS2 controller for Densha de Go!, it's actually a self-contained re-release of DdG! Final, making it possibly the most ambitious device of its type.
While every other company was doing devices for old arcade, NES, SNES, Genesis, PC-Engine, & 80s micro computer games, Taito just goes "Yeah, well OUR plug-&-play device is for a PS2 game!".
Best part - that controller can be soft-modded to add back missing jingles from the PS2 release, and you can add controller functionality to the USB port so that it can also be used as a Densha de Go controller on PC.
The PC version of DenshaFinal was recently translated into English, so now more people can learn how to drive Japanese Train routes circa 2004.
Derek briefly mentioned it, but I know about the N64 version of _Densha de Go!_ because a guy named Thabeast721 played it about two years ago as part of his ongoing series called _Beating Every N64 Game,_ which includes Japanese only releases. He also had one of these special controllers.
Derek is like an old friend you don't see super often but when you do it feels like no time has passed
Co-op steam train, Player 2 is on a shovel controller huckin' coal at strategic moments.
btw, this train game being brutal, is because, in Japan, trains are super strict to use, they have very strict rules when carrying passengers to their next stop
The Soylent ad killed me. You can't make this stuff up, he actually just didn't know what taking that sponsorship meant.
ITS MADE OF PEOPLE
@@daveraschke as if no one made that joke here before
Thanks Derek for being there on rough days. If my real life's going to shit, nice to see at least a new SSFF vid in my feed.
huge credit for such an in-depth vid! the ratchety clicks of the controller levers are really satisfying
A few people have already commented on why it's written "densya", but I want to add a bit more explanation.
The difference in Kunrei (densya) vs Hepburn (densha) romanization is basically a difference of romanizing for consistency vs romanizing for pronunciation.
The 'sha' portion of "densha" is written しゃ, which is a 'shi' し modified by a small 'ya' ゃ to make the sound 'sha'. That's why in Kunrei it's written as 'sya', to match the 'ya' や character even though it's pronounced 'sha'. This goes for all "yō-on", where a character is modified by a small 'y-' group character, and is therefore written with a 'y' in Kunrei.
There are a few different pronunciation mismatchs to keep in mind when reading Kunrei.
Always great to see a new SSFF video c:
I saw that frame of Sabin suplexing a train during the game intro, Derek!
Well played~
Always love the esoteric controllers. Would love to see a breakdown of exactly what each of the levers actually does, i.e. what they map to (if they do at all) on a regular controller, which might explain why the functions seem to change depending on position, and why the buttons don't always work. Maybe how they look on something like a gamepad tester...
I love it when ad reads are relevant to the content, you did it hilariously here, and Renn's Reviews does some amazing ad reads as well
You know, this video brought me joy in some tough times, thanks Derek.
Always putting out bangers! Love the content man! Always learning stuff 🤯
I was just thinking today would be a good day for a SSFF video.
I am surprised the sponsor hasn't a flavor called Green. Also Derek, you do realize that the Light rail is coming... if a bit slower than some of us would have wanted.
Yes I am VERY aware! Been watching it slowly be built the entire time I’ve lived in Seattle! Can’t wait for the new extension to open, then it’s MY turn to be the drunkard on the train!
@@StopSkeletonsFromFightingYou are in Seattle ? I've always wanted to take the ferry over and check out some of the game stores like Pink Gorilla.. I'm just right across the canal and do enjoy the ferry trip. Only few time I've been to Seattle is just to catch a baseball game but want to just take the ferry over one day and walk around and see the sights.
The green flavor is mint chocolate
Light rail came to my city. Slow is right, and paaacked.
@@Neer-yy5nm the Puget Sound getting light/commuter rail was originally supposed to happen in the 1960s, after getting rid of the last version in the 30s. Slow rollout is one thing, slow realization that it is needed after all is another. Both were involved here, to the point that the Everett portion will have been without a rail link for over a century.
Was NOT expecting my music to suddenly pop up in this vid :') Very cool! Really made my day that! :D
My day always seems a bit better whenever an SSFF vid pops up in my feed! 👍
Love the Peanut Butter GDQ shirt, Derek. Was such a wonderful run with not just a unique controller, but a unique runner! Oh yeah, crazy that these train controllers exist.
Happy (super) belated birthday, Uncle Derek
I've been hoping you'd put out another video soon AND I've weirdly had a lot of train controller questions building up so this is excellent 🤠
I'm endlessly fascinated with this stuff, great video.
A whole hour of Derek talking about stupid controllers? Sign me up!!
Woohoo Uncle Derek is back, it's him, Uncle Derek! 🎉🥳
ALWAYS READY FOR THE GOOD GOOD UNCLE DEREK CONTENT
Good to see you back!
Yeah! ^^ More Derek. I really love rewatching your old HVGN videos, and your 13 year anniversary episode where you gave commentary on the first half of your HVGN videos library. Do you ever think you want to do another commentary episode of the rest of your HVGN videos? Clash at Demonhead onward?
Just as a side note: While not part of the Densha no Go series nor made by Taito, there's the Japanese Rail Sim 3D games made by Sonic Powered Co that pretty much play exactly the same but with the added bonus of being available in fully translated English! Two were released for the 3DS's digital store (if I remember correctly) although that shut down so I have no idea how to get them now, and one should be available on Steam.
First off, the Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks music that kicked in for Densha De Go! 2 on Dreamcast? _Brilliant move,_ Uncle Derek - that game is amazing and that theme is low-key one of the best in the entire series. PERFECT for train... train, um.... goodness? Train goodness; let's go with that, lol.
Secondly, this exchange - "Yes Derek we have it... I'll put it aside for you" - That's amazing! 😄
The first thing I thought of was those clicks! They were really satisfying to hear for some reason!
Also spinning, whee!!! 😂😂😂
Love your content, dude!
Honestly I do love the wacky oddball stuff Derek covers regularly on the channel, it makes my day. Either be the Zeebo or in this case Train Controllers, such awesome.
It's always a nice surprise to see a new SSFF
People: Oh hey, a controller for trains.
Derek: But does it play Doom?
Derek uploads a new video, I watch immediately
Has Derek just invented some Speedrunning Catagories?
Derek, I am someone who in fact, loves the hell out of trains. I've never been into video games about them, because I am very particular about what I would want, but I did appreciate the heck out of this video.
I find it unlikely that Taito specifically blocked the controller; rather the wild inputs may be triggering some kind of soft reset function or (perhaps more likely) are simply crashing the software during the load lol Great video!
Ya know, I don’t think I would have watched this if Derek wasn’t so delightful. This is soooooo dumb… But Derek makes it endearing in a way I can’t properly articulate.
Somethings are worth waiting for… SSFF is one of them!!!
i can't help but feel the japanese bubble bobble is not kicking you out on purpose... it would probably just give a popup that says wrong controller.
i feel the controller accidentally triggering a button combo for soft resets is more likely.
I been following Derek since Space Money Octagon. I'm glad to see mans doing well in his passion. Hilarious video!
Can't believe how much I loved a video about TRAINS, but, then again, it is Derek we're talking about.
I'm glad you're back, gang
Great video, super fun. I love the newer train sims like journey to kyoto and jr east on steam but haven’t seen the older ones yet and you played so much more than just train games, wow!
There is no other CZcamsr who makes me feel like I'm in the room with him. Great, fun guy! :D
From hearing your into so much, I’ve been implementing my own greeting for people named Nathan, Nate, or Nathaniel. It goes, “Hey Nate, it’s me, Nate! How’s it going, Nate?!” Just thought you’d like to know you influenced me for so long. :)
Thanks for your unending dedication to weird gaming Derek! Was nice to meet you at MGC, shame the Faceball setup wasnt working at the time i was near that area 😢
Great video! I'm really curious now what it would look like to play the train games on a regular controller. It looks like the levers are combining all sorts of button combinations together, so I bet there would be some pretty entertaining finger pretzels going on.
Uncle Derek, I just saw the SSFF logo in a game called Selaco. It made my day :)
I appreciate that you used the train level music from X4 :)
45:55 It's okay Derek, you've simply immersed yourself so deeply in the Japanese train-controller life that you've shed the need for Western worries like cars or localized game titles.
So mad CZcams didn’t tell me this came out sooner, absolutely love Punching Weights about weird controllers
Uncle Derek’s back and I’m here for it
Awesome episode. SSFF lightning in a bottle
You are basically the Lockpicking Lawyer of weird ass video fake junk. I love this channel!
happy birthday! you look great!
Not only is this vid about something obscure, its nearly an HOUR LONG. Derek, you madlad
Is that the freaking music from the FF8 train hijacking scene you slipped in there?
Well played, Derek.
Still looking pretty fly for 40, Uncle Derek!
I’m looking forward to the second video, in which you go into the full history of all the Go games and play them all using their respective controllers. ;)
I loved the Soylent bit! :DDD
It's 3 in the morning, but it's a Punching Weight video about weird controllers, so going back to sleep can wait.
I'm glad you didn't run through the emenies.
10/10 video!
I literally thought you were like 32, you look great :) also this video is incredible thanks derek! I love your desire to play doom on everything
Speaking of Zen connections to Doom controls, I once beat the entirety of episode 1 with the screen flipped upside down and the left and right controls mirrored. I wanted to prove that our proprioception system is highly adaptable and given a consistent set of inputs, even the most literally backwards controls become second nature. And yes I wished I had recorded it but my PC is from 2009 and OBS can't run at more than 0 frames per second 😢
you know how deep a rabbit hole has become when Derek is almost exasperated listing off the number of controllers
This must be a good one. Densha de Go rocks.
Not to mention the by far best episode of GameCenter CX is about this game.
This was quite the undertaking 🤯
I was just thinking it was a while since I saw a SSFF. Great start to the weekend
welcome back derek 🗣️
Just got here but can't wait to watch. I love Densha De Go, especially Yamanote-sen on PS4.