As a retired machinist I watched this with great interest. From 1987 to 2000 I worked for a slury pump company in Sydney, Australia. Saw pump impellers static balanced daily. Material was removed by fixed offset turning on a vertical borer. The machines were old and worn out but new machines would never have lasted long either, esp with the high chrome alloys used for the impellers. The impellers could weigh up to 6 metric tons, The fellow who mainly did the balancing had a note book of sizes, materials and removal estimates created over many years. He NEVER let it out of his sight.
I would not argue that the crank itself is balanced. but even with a set of rods and pistons of identical weight to each other the reduced balance weights will increase the bending force on the crank. Increasing bearing load and forces on the block. You could take the balance weights off the crank completely yet still get it to balance in this machine.
Correct, it will put more strain on the crank. This is a case of risk vs reward though. We were once asked by a customer to balance a crank that he had removed all of the counterweights from. It went incredibly well but didn't last long. Over the years we must have balanced hundreds of knife edged or wedged cranks and as i recall the one with no counterweights at all is the only one that has ever caused a problem.
@@WarlordMarty that is interesting, my comment was not in keyboard warrior mode, just curious. Of course in real life the crank spins with masses of oil pouring off of it. Of course with no counterweights at all the bending moments on the crank will be pretty extreme. As you say it is all a trade off, some engines are intended for a short but exciting life.
I got a 3.50 corrected stroke knife edge crank for a 350 chevy off a guy for cheap because it was bent a little I straightened it on the crank grinder and it passed x-ray we ended up putting it in a engine with some cheap claimer class dome pistons and stock rods from 95 corvette and a mechanical roller cam and heads from a old circle track build ran it on ethanol in a mudbog truck and used to regularly slam it to 9000rpm and spit pushrods out of the valvecovers when it finally went it was awesome there was no middle in the block the entire cam and rotating assembly exited the bottom end and peeled the oil pan off the rails the crank was in 5 pieces nothing but the carb and headers was usable the harmonic balancer smacked the water pump on its exit with the crank snout in it it was awesome big fireball too best 800 dollar smallblock ever built from half wore out junk there is definite perks to working at an engine shop and building different race engines
@@79huddy hahaha...your so right...When I worked as head porter at Ten Kate in the Netherlands I once built a complete block of not used parts or illegal parts not used anymore ...a head skimmed so much and valve seats cut so deep the thinnest size lash shims where way too thick..... But in this head I made a special intake port close to water and oil and filled up with epoxy. When tightning the head bolts...several could not reach the torgue specs as I felt the threads being almost pulled out of aluminium engine block...... But it made the best power curve to that date...😂😂😂😂
It should be spun up with bobweights attached , each one equal to all of the rotating mass of the conrod plus zero % of the reciprocating mass, so just the rotating mass. The counterweights on the crank are there to balance the rotating mass otherwise they're not required and could be completely eliminated.
So they took a bunch of weight off the counter weights and then to balance had to take off some more. I believe the original balance included bob weights to replicate the additional weight of the rods and pistons .
Thanks Lee! Appreciate the video. I do wish you showed us the view of the hole you put in that flywheel. Hopefully everynow and then you can just hover your camera over any holes you drilled so we can get a feel for how much was removed… Thanks again! Cheers 🥰
As a retired American mechanic I enjoy seeing what happens behind the scenes of machining in another country, not much different from American machining just just on a smaller scale.
Very interesting video.Had a balancing machine in my old factory,always wondered how to work it.Nothing to it ,not surprised it was a semi-skilled job.
This is where I simply admit I can't get my head around the crank balancing and adding pistons to it. Please, any chance you will make a video explaining this ? It's cool and amazing, it's just my brain cannot figure out how it will work out.
It seems to me it is just like any other mod that allows for faster acceleration of the piston and seems like a great idea but in moderation for sake of longevity of bearings and valve train.
Great videos, thanks 👍🏻 Could you clear something up for me please as I can’t seem to find the answer. I had my 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa bored and stroked from 1299cc to 1441cc. This is a common modification. I had the new crank (2mm over) balanced by a reputable engineer before assembly. I enquired with the balancer and the tuner regarding having the crank lightened as part of the build but everyone advised against it? So my question is, for road applications, what are the disadvantages is lightening a crank? Seems like a good idea to me!? 😁
how do you calculate the percentage of reciprocating weight ie the balance factor on single cyl engines you pick your rev range where you want it smoothest pick your balance factor ,do the calcs then hang the weight on the con rod rotate the crank on knife edges and drill or add weight so crank stops in any position
A question regarding crank balancing. I've seen you guys weighing the rods, pistons, pins rings etc to get them all as close as possible. Do you also simulate that weight on the crank when balancing the crank? I've seen some videos using bobbin weights to do this. I'm replacing some damaged pistons in an older classic Mercedes with oversized Mahle pistons. (OEM) manufacturer. Due to the modern processes and improved materials they use today the pistons will of course be lighter than the original. So I'm assuming i will have to have the crank balanced with these new pistons? Or do I just get the crank balanced on its own as shown in this video? Cheers Guys Love the channel. John.
well if you are willing to put the efforth in it, the crank should be cross drilled at the journals to shave off some noticable mass. knife endging is fun, but honestly i would prefer the pendulum style. that takes away the abosolute most mass while getting you the balance. but thats just me.
Why no counterweights on the big ends to mimic the reciprocating masses of the conrods and pistons? If you can machine weight off the crank counterweight that counterbalances the reciprocating masses with impunity why not take it all off?
I used to build my own racing engines for F1200, short circuit racing many years ago, originally using the Ford Anglia 1200 5 bearing crank, after sending the crank flywheel and clutch assembly to be balanced , I then assembled it in the engine, and measured each piston crown from the top of the block and find the lowest then machine the others to match, Then send the block to be topped. I would also quite literally weigh every moving set of parts, whether they be pistons, con rods tappets etc etc using an old set of jewellers scales my father gave me, every nut bolt and washer that moved, I made them all weight the same, possibly a bit ott, and anal but I enjoyed it, and boy oh boy those little engines ran like electric motors, sweet as a nut, no vibration, and more responsive than a light switch. I then moved on to the Escort engines Xflows 1100 Bored right out to max. I did at the time at one engineering shop hear engines being "stroke aligned and radial corrected"? Is that a real thing, or was they punting for work or pulling my leg? Love your comment on that. Anyhow great posta, and just subbed.
I'm surprised you don't polish them as well, whenever I have a bike crank done I have them knife edged, polished and balanced, obviously including the flywheel and any other parts on the crank, like ignition trigger wheels etc, the rods balanced, and then the piston assemblies all matched up.
@@kimmorrison9169 Yes very much so, the engine will spin up much more quickly, and with other modifications like stronger valve springs, the engine can have it's rev limit increased by around 1500rpm depending on the engine, as the overall effect is much smoother running, and decreased vibration
Been waiting for this always wondered how knife edging a crank was for balance, I’ve had bikes with knifed edged crank but never had any info on balancing.
I have one question what about the wait of the big end of the connecting rod and also this is the first time I’ve ever seen a rotating assembly balance without bobwieghts connected to the journals to replicate the weight of the connecting rod and piston as a mass I guess i need some understanding on this method I could be missing something. I do understand that the crankshaft is perfectly balanced with the fly wheel, clutch pressure plate, etc.. I am sure it’s perfectly balanced. It just makes me wonder how you don’t consider the rest of the rotating assembly
Um this may be stupid question . Or assumption . Sure the cracks itself it balanced but I was under the inpressution the the lugs were not to balance the crank but to keep a balance when the pistons were swinging around attached to it. Are you switching out for lighter pistons. And retesting with them swinging up and down. ?? Or am I a mile off of what the lugs are even for??
Have you any idea, how many horse power can give more this engine ,because you balance the crankshaft?Or its all about the wear on the bearing etc etc?Thanks.
In regards to the knifeedge crank. How is it not miles out of balance removig so much weight from the counterweights. The material has also been removed on the direct opposite side of the big end where the weight removed would affect the balance the most. Was the crank out of balance from the factory?
You will be surprised how much machine shops do it wrong as they always assume that the aftermarket say that there products are zero balanced and they aren't.
Comparing the two videos, on the first one with the crank on the lathe the big end pin webs (not the counterbalance webs) are as cast but when you see this video those webs at the big end pins have had a mountain taken off them with the grinder. This crank must have been mega out of balance and had work done on it before you started this video. But still, the thing that begs the question is......why would anyone go to this much trouble with a cast crank..!
For some engine builds a billet crank is so far outside budget it's cheaper to mess with the cast crank. Say a high revving na motor for instance doesn't need a billet crank as much as it needs absolutely the closest tolerances possible. Or like in my case nobody makes one and I don't particularly want to pay 6 grand for a custom one off. Some racing circuits also limit what can be in the motor.
so now you have removed weight from crank, surely the reciprocating balance would now be off? as i understand it, the weights on the crank need to be half of the reciprocating mass, will it be having lighter con rods and pistons?
You add Mallory back to it to correct for the Bob weight of the piston and rod assembly some do it with a constant oil flow to account for the oil weight too this was just getting the crank to neutral balance
It's a flat plane 4 cyl crank. The reciprocating mass counter balances itself, which is why the rods, pistons, etc have to be exactly matched so the balance each other out. 90° V8 cranks are completely different, hence the need for the bob weights when balancing
So, if you replace the clutch, you either have to rebuild/rebalance the whole assembly again or just put up with losing your perfect balance, is it not possible to perfectly balance each seperate part so that it doesn't matter where you assemble it?
Todos los elementos están balanceados individualmente,así que no importa incluso el volante y presa puedes ponerlos en diferentes posiciones y condervaran el balanceo
Yes. We did that on my dad’s race engine. It was a different animal than my mom’s, which was all stock with twin SU’s. It rev’d more smoothly. I did the same with my 1974 BMW 2 liter that we bored to 2.2 with forged aluminum pistons gapless rings and a big valve Ti head. Very smooth and quick to rev.
@@kevinapps1233 so no explanation then, No worries, this company will not respond to my request to have a small cranshaft worked on, so I'll look elsewhere and get an explanation from them. But then as a teacher, it does go that if you can't explain something simply, you don't fully understand it yourself.
@@evotoadracekartscars.6738 sorry, I was a bit ambiguous. The Renault crank is flat plane so the rod journals are at regular intervals and therefore the weight of each rod cancels out the opposite cylinder which is 180 degrees offset. With a V8 crank (not a Ferrari flat plane version, which is like 2x 4 cylinder engines) the rod journals do not balance each other out, so the crank webs need to do that job.
@@bwm999 I've sent Lee pictures of be crank, made contact on the phone. 🤷♂️ Its a 180° inline twin. Three mains and a web on each end, turning 13k 4stk. But like I said, I'll get the company I chose to explain the in's and out's of this so that I fully understand all the possibilities. So many thanks.
Both new & old are only as good as the measurement tolerance and the calibration. The old balancer is relatively simple so less components to go out of spec, with regular calibration it should be fine for old engines. Might not be accurate enough for a turbocharger turbine or an F1 engine though
I agree with @ g0fvt, you can balance a brick if necessary, these fellas have missed the point of my comment on this bullshit ' knife edging ' lark. Two cranks that spring to mind that need counter weights are Ford A and VW flat 4's both these will smash the main bearings out if run at too higher RPM, yet both can be in perfect static balance opposed engine designs have perfect primary balance but secondary balance relies on crankshaft counter balancing that I described last episode. Knife edging ruins the designed counter weight forces the only way around this is to remove metal from the pin side and add tungsten billets to m/c ed pockets on the counter weight webs
Secondary balance cannot be achieved in this 4 cylinder engine by simply adding counterweights to the crank. The secondary balance issues of all 4 cylinder flat plane engines is caused by the speed difference of the piston between the top and bottom 180° sections of the crank. Balance shafts can be used to smooth it out but they'll never be able to fix the actual issue. Removing material from these counterweights is just a risk vs reward operation. You can probably remove a good amount before it becomes unreliable.in this case it's a Renault 5 turbo. Considering it's now a classic it'll probably be lucky to cover 50k miles in the rest of it's lifetime. It should manage that with a crank like this no problem.
@@WarlordMarty I agree with the notion of secondary balance, but you can minimize its effect by adding a proportion of the reciprocating mass to the weights
As a retired machinist I watched this with great interest. From 1987 to 2000 I worked for a slury pump company in Sydney, Australia. Saw pump impellers static balanced daily. Material was removed by fixed offset turning on a vertical borer. The machines were old and worn out but new machines would never have lasted long either, esp with the high chrome alloys used for the impellers. The impellers could weigh up to 6 metric tons, The fellow who mainly did the balancing had a note book of sizes, materials and removal estimates created over many years. He NEVER let it out of his sight.
Im a toolmaker, and no, books like that is never left out of sight, they are pure gold value to the one who has made it 👍
Great insight into what goes off, we all know they get balanced...but not how 👍 Now we do!
I would not argue that the crank itself is balanced. but even with a set of rods and pistons of identical weight to each other the reduced balance weights will increase the bending force on the crank. Increasing bearing load and forces on the block. You could take the balance weights off the crank completely yet still get it to balance in this machine.
Correct, it will put more strain on the crank. This is a case of risk vs reward though. We were once asked by a customer to balance a crank that he had removed all of the counterweights from. It went incredibly well but didn't last long. Over the years we must have balanced hundreds of knife edged or wedged cranks and as i recall the one with no counterweights at all is the only one that has ever caused a problem.
@@WarlordMarty that is interesting, my comment was not in keyboard warrior mode, just curious. Of course in real life the crank spins with masses of oil pouring off of it. Of course with no counterweights at all the bending moments on the crank will be pretty extreme. As you say it is all a trade off, some engines are intended for a short but exciting life.
I got a 3.50 corrected stroke knife edge crank for a 350 chevy off a guy for cheap because it was bent a little I straightened it on the crank grinder and it passed x-ray we ended up putting it in a engine with some cheap claimer class dome pistons and stock rods from 95 corvette and a mechanical roller cam and heads from a old circle track build ran it on ethanol in a mudbog truck and used to regularly slam it to 9000rpm and spit pushrods out of the valvecovers when it finally went it was awesome there was no middle in the block the entire cam and rotating assembly exited the bottom end and peeled the oil pan off the rails the crank was in 5 pieces nothing but the carb and headers was usable the harmonic balancer smacked the water pump on its exit with the crank snout in it it was awesome big fireball too best 800 dollar smallblock ever built from half wore out junk there is definite perks to working at an engine shop and building different race engines
@@79huddy hahaha...your so right...When I worked as head porter at Ten Kate in the Netherlands I once built a complete block of not used parts or illegal parts not used anymore ...a head skimmed so much and valve seats cut so deep the thinnest size lash shims where way too thick..... But in this head I made a special intake port close to water and oil and filled up with epoxy. When tightning the head bolts...several could not reach the torgue specs as I felt the threads being almost pulled out of aluminium engine block...... But it made the best power curve to that date...😂😂😂😂
It should be spun up with bobweights attached , each one equal to all of the rotating mass of the conrod plus zero % of the reciprocating mass, so just the rotating mass. The counterweights on the crank are there to balance the rotating mass otherwise they're not required and could be completely eliminated.
Awesome vid mate...you learn something new every day...cheers from NZ.
Every day's a school day, very much enjoyed this one 👌
As a mechanic it’s nice to see what you lads do 👍
Absolutely love this machine makes it look so easy when you have the right kit. 👍👍 great video as always. 👍
So they took a bunch of weight off the counter weights and then to balance had to take off some more. I believe the original balance included bob weights to replicate the additional weight of the rods and pistons .
Brilliant video. Learn so much from watching you and what you do. I will be in contact soon about some thing I need building
Like others here watching, i too have always wondered how you do this . Thank you for showing this mate.
Very interesting, thanks for showing us.
Hats off to you sir. I'm a machinist really want to learn more about auto motive machining. Old school still the best for me .great video ...
that's an amazing bit of kit!
Thanks Lee! ...I've always wondered how these parts are balanced. I Love that old balancing machine!
Thanks a lot Daniel 👍
Thanks Lee! Appreciate the video. I do wish you showed us the view of the hole you put in that flywheel. Hopefully everynow and then you can just hover your camera over any holes you drilled so we can get a feel for how much was removed… Thanks again! Cheers 🥰
The escort cosworth lumb was beautiful and would proudly have that front & centre in my front room.
Spot on, interesting video lads
Very interesting, never seen that done before.
A 17.5 lb weight savings is pretty sweet. 🏁😎👍👍
Interesting stuff !
As a retired American mechanic I enjoy seeing what happens behind the scenes of machining in another country, not much different from American machining just just on a smaller scale.
Proper engineering!
cool video and good info
Carlos is the man 👊⚡
Very interesting video.Had a balancing machine in my old factory,always wondered how to work it.Nothing to it ,not surprised it was a semi-skilled job.
Er, reckoning this is a Highly skilled Job...It's made look easy by the level of skill garnered over time. thinking this is a craft in itself.
It's surprising how easy jobs look when they're done by someone who has practiced! 😀
I have had. cranks balanced. never had any idea. how it was done. thank you.
Interesting 😊
This is where I simply admit I can't get my head around the crank balancing and adding pistons to it.
Please, any chance you will make a video explaining this ?
It's cool and amazing, it's just my brain cannot figure out how it will work out.
Awesome 👍👍
Love the vids👍 can we have one on balancing rods n pistons nxt 🙏
@@kevinapps1233 oh, are you saying barum engines won't do it properly 😬
Nice job I can’t wait to get my bmw m52tub28 turbo engine built
I have never seen an analog crank balancer before. Interesting.
If you remove the same amount of material from each counterweight its essentially balanced the same in theroy
It seems to me it is just like any other mod that allows for faster acceleration of the piston and seems like a great idea but in moderation for sake of longevity of bearings and valve train.
Great videos, thanks 👍🏻 Could you clear something up for me please as I can’t seem to find the answer.
I had my 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa bored and stroked from 1299cc to 1441cc. This is a common modification. I had the new crank (2mm over) balanced by a reputable engineer before assembly. I enquired with the balancer and the tuner regarding having the crank lightened as part of the build but everyone advised against it?
So my question is, for road applications, what are the disadvantages is lightening a crank? Seems like a good idea to me!? 😁
how do you calculate the percentage of reciprocating weight ie the balance factor
on single cyl engines you pick your rev range where you want it smoothest
pick your balance factor ,do the calcs
then hang the weight on the con rod
rotate the crank on knife edges and drill or add weight so crank stops in any position
nice
A balancer is an amazing machine, whoever designed the original must have been a very intelligent person.....
👌👌
A question regarding crank balancing. I've seen you guys weighing the rods, pistons, pins rings etc to get them all as close as possible. Do you also simulate that weight on the crank when balancing the crank? I've seen some videos using bobbin weights to do this. I'm replacing some damaged pistons in an older classic Mercedes with oversized Mahle pistons. (OEM) manufacturer. Due to the modern processes and improved materials they use today the pistons will of course be lighter than the original. So I'm assuming i will have to have the crank balanced with these new pistons? Or do I just get the crank balanced on its own as shown in this video? Cheers Guys Love the channel. John.
well if you are willing to put the efforth in it, the crank should be cross drilled at the journals to shave off some noticable mass. knife endging is fun, but honestly i would prefer the pendulum style. that takes away the abosolute most mass while getting you the balance. but thats just me.
Why no counterweights on the big ends to mimic the reciprocating masses of the conrods and pistons? If you can machine weight off the crank counterweight that counterbalances the reciprocating masses with impunity why not take it all off?
👍👍👍
I used to build my own racing engines for F1200, short circuit racing many years ago, originally using the Ford Anglia 1200 5 bearing crank, after sending the crank flywheel and clutch assembly to be balanced , I then assembled it in the engine, and measured each piston crown from the top of the block and find the lowest then machine the others to match, Then send the block to be topped. I would also quite literally weigh every moving set of parts, whether they be pistons, con rods tappets etc etc using an old set of jewellers scales my father gave me, every nut bolt and washer that moved, I made them all weight the same, possibly a bit ott, and anal but I enjoyed it, and boy oh boy those little engines ran like electric motors, sweet as a nut, no vibration, and more responsive than a light switch. I then moved on to the Escort engines Xflows 1100 Bored right out to max. I did at the time at one engineering shop hear engines being "stroke aligned and radial corrected"? Is that a real thing, or was they punting for work or pulling my leg? Love your comment on that. Anyhow great posta, and just subbed.
You could do this to my Alfa 33 16v knife edge crank lighten flywheel and balance ??.
Not knowing the finer parts but doesn’t the weight Of the webs include an allowance for the bottom end of the con rod?
I'm surprised you don't polish them as well, whenever I have a bike crank done I have them knife edged, polished and balanced, obviously including the flywheel and any other parts on the crank, like ignition trigger wheels etc, the rods balanced, and then the piston assemblies all matched up.
and do you notice much difference with a mc engine after installing the machines parts?
@@kimmorrison9169 Yes very much so, the engine will spin up much more quickly, and with other modifications like stronger valve springs, the engine can have it's rev limit increased by around 1500rpm depending on the engine, as the overall effect is much smoother running, and decreased vibration
Argent silver? Old truck grills were painted that.
Been waiting for this always wondered how knife edging a crank was for balance, I’ve had bikes with knifed edged crank but never had any info on balancing.
Derek Huxley the guvnor with a Honda bike crank does Bsb bottom ends and some say is the best in Europe
I have one question what about the wait of the big end of the connecting rod and also this is the first time I’ve ever seen a rotating assembly balance without bobwieghts connected to the journals to replicate the weight of the connecting rod and piston as a mass I guess i need some understanding on this method I could be missing something. I do understand that the crankshaft is perfectly balanced with the fly wheel, clutch pressure plate, etc.. I am sure it’s perfectly balanced. It just makes me wonder how you don’t consider the rest of the rotating assembly
Um this may be stupid question . Or assumption .
Sure the cracks itself it balanced but I was under the inpressution the the lugs were not to balance the crank but to keep a balance when the pistons were swinging around attached to it.
Are you switching out for lighter pistons. And retesting with them swinging up and down. ??
Or am I a mile off of what the lugs are even for??
How does the exact weight of the pistons and rods affect the balance of the engine?
also is there a need for bob weights on a 4 cylinder?
Cool , 😊Very
Have you any idea, how many horse power can give more this engine ,because you balance the crankshaft?Or its all about the wear on the bearing etc etc?Thanks.
Does your balancer need a new starter cap Lee?
At what rpm are you balancing at?
Someone is trying to ring you about an extended "car" warranty 😆😆🤣🤣
No bobb weights? Do the pistons and rods not have to match the weight of counter weights? sorry if that a stupid question.
In regards to the knifeedge crank. How is it not miles out of balance removig so much weight from the counterweights. The material has also been removed on the direct opposite side of the big end where the weight removed would affect the balance the most. Was the crank out of balance from the factory?
Where would you get a machine like this?
Absolutely fascinating, always wondered how this was done! Do you not balance the middle of the crank as well or is only the ends needed?
It’s done on more modern machines these days a bit like balancing a car wheel .
Would this machine balance my zxr750 crank ??.
You will be surprised how much machine shops do it wrong as they always assume that the aftermarket say that there products are zero balanced and they aren't.
dont you need to put bob weights on the crank to counter the weight of the rods and pistons?
Not on inline 4 cylinder engines.
Comparing the two videos, on the first one with the crank on the lathe the big end pin webs (not the counterbalance webs) are as cast but when you see this video those webs at the big end pins have had a mountain taken off them with the grinder. This crank must have been mega out of balance and had work done on it before you started this video. But still, the thing that begs the question is......why would anyone go to this much trouble with a cast crank..!
For some engine builds a billet crank is so far outside budget it's cheaper to mess with the cast crank. Say a high revving na motor for instance doesn't need a billet crank as much as it needs absolutely the closest tolerances possible. Or like in my case nobody makes one and I don't particularly want to pay 6 grand for a custom one off. Some racing circuits also limit what can be in the motor.
Am I under the wrong train of thought. I figured it should have Bob weights on it
How in the hell can you balance without the Bob weight of the Pistons pin rods locks and rings?
so now you have removed weight from crank, surely the reciprocating balance would now be off?
as i understand it, the weights on the crank need to be half of the reciprocating mass, will it be having lighter con rods and pistons?
I was thinking wondering the same thing.
You add Mallory back to it to correct for the Bob weight of the piston and rod assembly some do it with a constant oil flow to account for the oil weight too this was just getting the crank to neutral balance
It's a flat plane 4 cyl crank. The reciprocating mass counter balances itself, which is why the rods, pistons, etc have to be exactly matched so the balance each other out. 90° V8 cranks are completely different, hence the need for the bob weights when balancing
@@theshed8802 That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
@@theshed8802 no it doesn't, if that was the case there would not be weights there at all, they are there to couneract the weight of the rod.
So, if you replace the clutch, you either have to rebuild/rebalance the whole assembly again or just put up with losing your perfect balance, is it not possible to perfectly balance each seperate part so that it doesn't matter where you assemble it?
It was only a few grams off so you wouldn't even notice a clutch replacement. Although you can just rebuild the pressure plate if needed.
Todos los elementos están balanceados individualmente,así que no importa incluso el volante y presa puedes ponerlos en diferentes posiciones y condervaran el balanceo
How is that balanced without bob weights?
Its not, so its wrong. Every other vid on CZcams they all replicate the rod+piston weight with bob weights which is correct.
Wouldn't make a difference on this crankshaft
I found that because the crank arms are on the same plane, no bob weights are necessary with this style of crank.
Is this worth doing on an MGB engine?
Yes. We did that on my dad’s race engine. It was a different animal than my mom’s, which was all stock with twin SU’s. It rev’d more smoothly. I did the same with my 1974 BMW 2 liter that we bored to 2.2 with forged aluminum pistons gapless rings and a big valve Ti head. Very smooth and quick to rev.
Why do other ballancers talk about ballance factors and use clamp on counter ballance weights please?
They are dealing with a “V” engine which doesn’t have a “flat plane” crankshaft.
@@bwm999 please explain? I thought this crank was Renault 5
@@kevinapps1233 so no explanation then,
No worries, this company will not respond to my request to have a small cranshaft worked on, so I'll look elsewhere and get an explanation from them.
But then as a teacher, it does go that if you can't explain something simply, you don't fully understand it yourself.
@@evotoadracekartscars.6738 sorry, I was a bit ambiguous. The Renault crank is flat plane so the rod journals are at regular intervals and therefore the weight of each rod cancels out the opposite cylinder which is 180 degrees offset. With a V8 crank (not a Ferrari flat plane version, which is like 2x 4 cylinder engines) the rod journals do not balance each other out, so the crank webs need to do that job.
@@bwm999 I've sent Lee pictures of be crank, made contact on the phone. 🤷♂️ Its a 180° inline twin. Three mains and a web on each end, turning 13k 4stk.
But like I said, I'll get the company I chose to explain the in's and out's of this so that I fully understand all the possibilities.
So many thanks.
ford ARGENT silver
I'm in the US and wonder if the cosworth engine block is the same as the early 70's 2.0L found in the US pinto?
No , its similar not the same
@@colinscutt5104 wonder if the DOHC head will work with my 2.0 block?
Moondust
to all of the fools spinning cranks with a drill on plywood blocks and trying to say they are balancing something...... THIS is how it is done.
Every other machine shop vid I seen they all use bob weights to replicate the rods+pistons weight.
@@kevinapps1233 Doesnt matter, still have a weight added to a crank that is imposing forces reciprocally.
@@kevinapps1233 fast engines is what I do, many class wins and trophys thanks.
@@bigggangsta Yes that is one of the specialities :)
@@bigggangsta OK, will contact you ASAP, sure we can work something out
a pint at the pub... its called a Horn .. and Mjöd ... wtf you guys turned from saxon to normans ? ... 5 stars
that is a very old crank balancer,would be interesting to see how accurate it is compared to a current CWT industries 6000 crank balancer.
Old skool da best skool. Bet they are no better
Both new & old are only as good as the measurement tolerance and the calibration. The old balancer is relatively simple so less components to go out of spec, with regular calibration it should be fine for old engines. Might not be accurate enough for a turbocharger turbine or an F1 engine though
I agree with @ g0fvt, you can balance a brick if necessary, these fellas have missed the point of my comment on this bullshit ' knife edging ' lark. Two cranks that spring to mind that need counter weights are Ford A and VW flat 4's both these will smash the main bearings out if run at too higher RPM, yet both can be in perfect static balance
opposed engine designs have perfect primary balance but secondary balance relies on crankshaft counter balancing that I described last episode. Knife edging ruins the designed counter weight forces the only way around this is to remove metal from the pin side and add tungsten billets to m/c ed pockets on the counter weight webs
Fair point. The VW crank is like wet spaghetti above 5k rpm due to the thin crank webs.
Secondary balance cannot be achieved in this 4 cylinder engine by simply adding counterweights to the crank. The secondary balance issues of all 4 cylinder flat plane engines is caused by the speed difference of the piston between the top and bottom 180° sections of the crank. Balance shafts can be used to smooth it out but they'll never be able to fix the actual issue.
Removing material from these counterweights is just a risk vs reward operation. You can probably remove a good amount before it becomes unreliable.in this case it's a Renault 5 turbo. Considering it's now a classic it'll probably be lucky to cover 50k miles in the rest of it's lifetime. It should manage that with a crank like this no problem.
@@WarlordMarty I agree with the notion of secondary balance, but you can minimize its effect by adding a proportion of the reciprocating mass to the weights
You need a cleaning lady .
Those britts don't know how to build an engine for big RPM