The Raven Queen's lore is so fascinating! I feel like Matt Mercer and the Critical Role cast had a lot to do with garnering interest in her as a deity.
I know that that's how TAZ Balance (and, to some extent, Critrole too) portrayed her, but it's really rather ironic - she isn't Grave Domain at all, but rather Death Domain. So much for not associating with un-death, I guess...
She could be, right? The domains are kinda general, so several gods can fit in their categories. For the Raven Queen Death and Grave are very logical choices, I think
Her origin story from one of my campaigns is that she was Erandis Vol that Ascended to a god-like being. She started the campaign doing work for the Blood of Vol and it was all designed for Erandis trying to regain her actual life. The Shadar-kai are actually her entire retinue of elves of Illmarrow that were transformed when the ritual that was supposed to bring her back to normal life transformed her into beyond death and undeath itself.
This has some pretty big implications about the nature of the Shadowfell. Before it was always treated like the Feywild and Shadowfell were kind of mirror-planes existing alongside the material plane of whatever setting you were using. So going with Forgotten Realms for example, you'd have the Feywild, Toril, and then the Shadowfell. The geography of one would be similar to the geography of the other, but could have differences based on what happened in that specific plane of existence. So for instance, if the Terrasque would destroy a mountain or something on Toril, that mountain would still probably exist on the Feywild and the Shadowfell. But the way Mearl's describes the Raven Queen as some kind of interplanar being that exists across settings and rules over the Shadowfell, it seems like they've switched gears a bit, making the Shadowfell from all different realities kind of exist together. So conceivably, one could enter the Shadowfell on Toril, and then somehow find an exit to another world, like Athas (Dark Sun) or Nerath (Nentire Vale).
The way I would make this work is that there is one Material Plane that contains the worlds of Krynn, Oerth and Toril, and one Shadowfell that similarly contains Shadow-Krynn, Shadow-Oerth and Shadow-Toril. Some locations in the Shadowfell, such as the Domains of Dread or the city of the Raven Queen, would however be found on every shadow-world, surrounded by strange mists.
Wasn't that how the Shadowfel/Plane of Shadow worked in 3.5e though? Even if not, they sort of already did that by placing Ravenloft in the Shadowfel now. The whole domains of dread and the dark powers are now for some reason placed into the Shadowfel. Wouldn't that put them UNDER the Raven Queen? That bugs me. Not only that, but the Domains of Dread are gathered portions of lands from several material planes, so if they're in the Shadowfell, which Material Plane is that that houses them? I think separating it into a material but disconnected plane is the way to go given all of this, but it's still kind of a big change. Since the Dark Powers like to manipulate souls they find worthy or unworthy, that makes me worry that the Raven Queen is either behind them, or is one of them. I'm slightly more ok with her being one of them but in either case I hope they stay mysterious and unnamed.
4E and prior lore is naturally going to get updated. Hating undeath while allowing resurrection does in fact imply curiosity, and now we're seeing a more explicit confirmation.
mega17 yep. In 4E her followers commandments include: Bring down the proud who try to cast off the chains of fate. Watch for the cults of Orcus (demon prince of undead) and stamp them out whenever they arise.
There seems to be quite a muddled/ crowded mythology here. There is Kelemvor (god of the dead), Myrkul (god of death), with the raven queen seeming to fulfill a niche role surrounding life/ death as well. I liked the Critical Role interpretation which focused strongly on her hatred of unnatural necromancy because she governs both death (transition) and fate. Plus she has a cool aesthetic.
They used to be setting specific (and Myrkul is dead, unless something's changed). They might be mixing things from different settings up now, but It's not exactly new to have two or more gods representing the same thing anyway. When that happens there's usually a struggle for power or they take care of separate aspects of their domain. If they're mixing the pantheons, it's understandable that they'd remove the undead hatred focus, since Kelemvor already did that is is much older and better developed.
My only wish is for WotC to revisit The Raven Queen Warlock pact. I’m playing one right now and it’s been super fun but we have made some adjustments to it. I’d love to see an official release sometime soon
No mentions of Revenants :( Always liked them in 4E since they were the RQ's champions she would forge from restless souls. Her own squad of undead Terminators
5th edition has been pretty dead silent on the Raven Queen so far. Up until XGtE, I don't think we've even had a mention of her. The Raven Queen popped up in XGtE when describing a potential patron for Hexblade Warlocks, but not much else is touched on. I really hope MToF covers more about her, so that we can get some 5e canonical information on her.
MToF will definitely cover her more, this is obviously just a brief overview and teaser, but RQ is SUPPOSED to be mysterious. That said, Raven Queen isn't a potential patron in XGtE - She is the puppeteer behind one of the Hexblades, so your warlock should just be dealing with the sentient Hexblade and never even get a word from RQ. It's only a nod to the Raven Queen patron in UA - The Hexblade is the Patron, it's powerful enough for that.
If a sentient blade is fashioned by the Raven Queen, one would suggest that the blade is somewhat loyal to the Raven Queen, wouldn't you think so? So I guess it's indirectly deriving powers from the Raven Queen, if you know what I mean. I'm also hoping that MToF will feature the Raven Queen more, but they didn't really mention it at all in this video.
Raven Queen was first "officially" introduced in UA: Warlocks & Wizards as an actual Warlock patron (a mixed bag at that). Even still, not a lot of information is displayed about her. At the very least, powerful enough that the almighty Wizards debated making her a patron option. That said, I still very much want that to be refined into an official patron just like Hexblade was.
Currently the main figure of my goliath Blood Hunter’s pact of the Hexblade. Killing undead in exchange for Winter winds to end the heat wave cursing the rest of the goliath’s herd
then just don't use that lore, talk to your DM lol. for all purposes, I could make the Raven Queen a total drama queen that laughs at her servants, Up to the game.
I understand people complaining about her being different from her 4e version, but people complaining about her not having her Critical Role traits should realize that Matt Mercer's world is a homebrew setting. Regarding the "she hates undead" thing, just because Mike Mearls didn't mention it here doesn't mean that it's gone, and if it is, there's always Kelemvor who did that long before RQ.
Yeah I had part of my Campaign in the Feywild and i had to do a extense research about it it wasn't that bad but hopefully we get more details on the new book
My personal favorite god like entity has to be the Pale Night. She came from another universe that ended and she was at the start of this universe. She creates monsters with a twitch of her finger and so hideous reality itself rejects her true image. She so fascinating to me. I would love to know more about her.
Andy A I had no clue if you were talking about the Lady or the Raven Queen until the 4th last word of your sentence. The LoP is perhaps the most overrated and boring deity in any DnD verse, who people only find interesting because she get's cool points just for being in the planescape setting.
ᛋᛋatania She's the font of pain, an intangible, abstract thing that only exists in the mind, even in D&D. Planescape, the Lady included, in much more than "cool points." With the possible exception of Dark Sun, it's the most adult and involved of settings. You can dive deeper in Planescape than anywhere else, and it's not because of the infinite planes; it's because of their finite nature. It's because the center of everything is a really just a mundane ring. Planescape constantly reminds you that that which is important is only because you make it so. With all due respect, I think you're missing the point of the Lady. Pain is futile. So is everything else.
Matt Mercer's Raven Queen is a much better version of the character. Less mysterious, more benevolent, able to have a conversation and communion with. She's cool.
I like the Raven Queen better as a Deity/cosmic entity shrouded in mystery and inscrutable, Matt Mercer's take was cool and all but in my opinion it took all the juice out her and made her . . . kind of boring, his Pelor and Vecna were incredible though.
@@thefracturedbutwhole5475 years late i know but she is entirely still shrouded in mystery in Matt's version. all we know is that she watches fate and guides the transition between life and death.
That’s one of the fun things about D&D. Everyone gets to put their own spin on things. Your Raven Queen can be a goddess, mine can be an Archfey, someone else’s might be something else entirely.
But she could have been a minor psychopomp figure still, without the weird BS of her meddling in the proper course of death, and just this completely different take on her that might as well be an entirely new entity.
One thing I love about the DnD cannon is that you can steal ideas and if your players say anything well its not stealing an idea, its just using the already established cannon.
First campaign I even did was in 4th edition when Orcus was the go-to bad guy on the front of the monster manual and I had us fighting all sorts of undead to gain at her behest (the party never choice her as it's patron, she kinda chose us, especialyl one character who was a revenant.) As this was going on I kept the "Heroes of Shadows" close to my heart. Played a race and class from it and reread the "keepers of the Everflow" paragon path again and again so when my party was told to fight Orcus 2/3s of the way through the campaign i instead had him explain that the whole undead thing is just him keeping souls from the Raven Queen so she cant turn them into her personal army, and in actuality He wanted the party's help to fight her and restore the Cycle of Reincarnation.
That's a neat take on it. Kinda turns the whole "Orcus is the KING OF EVIL" thing on it head. Less black and white, more grey. Even if he was lying about it, it adds some cool ambiguity to the campaign.
It was both really. He was did envy her throne but he also saw himself as the good guy in dethroning her. Of course RQ killed him right before the final battle but that just made more room for us
What about Shar, who created the Shadowfell by merging the remnants of the Negative Energy Plane into the Plane of Shadow when it collapsed? This seems to be overlooked heavily here, especially since my understanding was that The Raven Queen was a grayhawk deity...
She's not a Greyhawk deity, she's from the 4e implied setting (what Mike Mearls is referring to as "the world of Nentir Vale" in this video), which had no set world. Those gods are listed in the 5e DMG as the "Dawn War" pantheon, and feature mix of deities from various sources (some Greyhawk, some FR, some original).
Shar is Forgotten Realms, Raven Queen is Nentir Vale(which is kinda Greyhawk). And yes, Shar created the Shadowfell, but the RQ would just rule it(maybe after she took it from Shar). In the end it's up to WotC if, and how they want to rewrite the "canon" lore of their settings. Everything else is left up to the DM.
I hate this "she doesn't keep it, she meddles with it" thing. Like, why would you flip one of her defining traits? This is like giving Batman a sword and making him not scare people.
I thought she was the one who knows and determines your death, and loathes those who deny their destiny, not that she’s just curious about certain people. I don’t know if it’s okay, but I’m gonna stick with my description of her.
In FR they are tied to Netheril, but in the 4e implied setting they are just tied to the Shadowfell and RQ. either way, they were descended from humans in 4e, and were just Fey (but not elves) before that.
I don't see why they couldn't be former humans or former elves since they are something different from either anyway. Elves really don't need yet another subrace though.
Some of the 4e are human, but the 3e shadar kai which were the first ones were fey like creatures, the ones he speaks in the video are the 3e one, which are old as fk, as old as the Raven Queen, the Human Shadar kai from 4e came from the spellplague, not that old
During the critical role campaign ran by Matthew Mercer The Raven Queen was my favorite goddess so much so when my half-orc fighter died and we were looking for a means to bring them back I brought the Raven Queen to my DM who was also my cousin and so he would be brought back as a hexblade warlock multi-class but it quickly went to a place I did not care for he was playing the Raven Queen too dark and too villainous to where I want it out of the deal to the point where am I now half-orc fighter is now a paladin for Corellon Larethian ain't that crazy a half-orc worshipping the king of the Elven gods. we'll see how it pans out what's my characters out of his coma.
I'm confused. Every video says she's only existed since 4th edition, but that can't be right. I've multiple characters and notes from games in 3rd edition when it was young, about 18 years(?) ago. References to Shadowfell And Raven Queen appear in 3rd. Not clearly and explicitly defined certainly but it's there.
They were humans in 4e, so was the raven queen. I think they are changing the whole thing over to overlap with elves and the Seldarine (elf gods) in 5e and while I don't see a precedence for the change it's not one I'm opposed to, I always like to see the elves as being more magical than just pointy eared humans... maybe they are trying to make the elves a more planar race between the shadar-kai and the eladrin
In 3e, they were fey. In 4e, they were human-like and descended from humans. I guess in 5e they're splitting the difference and calling them elves. In case you haven't figured it out yet, Mearls really likes elves.
Also, what the hell is this "they look withered and old while in the shadowfell" crap? And RQ is a meddler in the transition of death now? Nope. I'm ignoring 99% of this nonsense and just using the original flavour text for her. This is an absurd level of completely necessary change that makes what it changes dramatically less interesting.
You men the same original flavor that had her LITERALLY DOING EXACTLY THAT... WTF do you think revenants are the result of if not meddling in the transition of death? She has ZERO issues with meddling with the transition of death when it catches her attention. She literally was established as only having issues with sentient undead that sought it as a means of avoiding the inevitablity of death entirely.... She didn't care about undeath as a whole (mindless undead had no souls and thus she didn't care, meanwhile revenants were sentient undead she made and gave enough time to fulfill their purpose that they were denied because she also had the portfolio over fate).... she didn't care about people meddling with the transition of death... its something she is perfectly content with if you accept that you are still to die. At no point does she oppose resurrection magic, those seeking an extended but not indefinite life (such as Wizards who can grow to great age but will one day become a part of the magic that has always been a part of them), etc.... She is instead shown to embrace the idea of meddling with the transition between life and death, but not acting against the transition (which is what often leads to sentient undead).
I really don't like Shadar Kai as elves. There's already way more types of elves than there needs to be. Its becoming a tired trope. The old appearance thing... who came up with that? It's so bad. I prefer the 4e shadar kai desceded from humans. Keep the fey in the feywild and create a separate mythology for the Shadowfel.
Personally I prefer have the Shadowfell and the Raven Queen as the default after life for mortals because it's more in-line with most mythological underworlds. Most people go to just this kind of dull place where their spirits exist for eternity, while really special (evil or good or just impressive) people go to a special location. I reimagine the Shadowfell as more like the Kingdom of the Dead from Egyptian mythology.
I was looking up the Shadar-Kai today and everything I find talks about them being human or human like except the UA stuff and what Mike said. I don't know why people assumed they were human or human like. Unless there was something in the past that described them like that.
In previous editions they were humans altered by the shadowfel (4e) or general fey with no real connection to elves (3e). The sudden change to elf subrace from both previously established lore sources is bugging a lot of people.
favorite deity EVER! at least her interpretation as a Goddess of Death. the fact that shes against undeath of any form, and takes it upon herself to make sure people who die stay dead, made her a fantastic deity for certain characters. ive used the UA raven queen warlock in a game, and it lasted much longer than i expected. i was glad it did, cause that was one of the most fun characters i had ever played. my dm also did an amazing job portraying the raven queen, so there was that. while we do have the grave domain cleric, i wouldnt mind getting a refined raven queens warlock, or something similar.
Kelemvor attempts to take the souls to their deserved afterlife. The Raven Queen attempts to interfere. I believe both of them hate necromancers and liches because they feel that once you're dead you should stay dead. Whether or not she's in your game's Shadowfell is up to your DM.
She has 0 opposition to necromancers in canon actually.... she is one.... She is perfectly fine with those that create mindless undead as it has no interference on the transition and the bodies are simply husks.... She also does NOT believe once you are dead you should stay dead, she actually demonstrably is not a believer in such a thing. She is responsible for revenants, she never opposes the use of resurrection magic, she does not even oppose undeath in the way it is often assumed. Her opposition to undeath (including an opposition to many necromancers) when given context always amounted to..... they didn't want to have a second chance to take care of unfinished business (she literally creates undead and gives them time to finish such things).... but instead by their actions they oppose the very role of death itself. Those that have the mentality of "I don't care if I die tomorrow but the world needs me today" aren't an issue because they still accept death. Necromancers is very broad and doesn't even require being one that deals with undeath but death magic as a whole, but even taking the common usage as those that create undead..... she doesn't ever oppose it as a whole but the path that many end up walking. Its one thing to raise skeletons, but the path many necromancers walk leads them towards trying to avoid dying at all or otherwise acting against the natural order of things. She in canon has at the very least sympathy for certain undead as well.Those still tied to the mortal plane in death due to horrible deaths she feels bad for despite being intelligent undead that do not have to answer when she calls for them to move on (revenants she can claim at any time), because they never made that choice but rather are suffering like her people were before she became the Raven Queen.
The warlock's pact with her is awesome! ! You could realease an unhearted arcana about Warlocks pact with it but improved. I see the Raven's Quenn as Raven from Teen Titans. Are we going to get D&D 6?
D&D doesnt like to put out new editions too often. 4e didnt last long b it wasnt popular. They still have more prewritten adventures coming out, plus Mordenkainens Tome of foes isnt even out yet. itll be at least a decade due to 5es popularity.
WotC has confirmed that they intend to revisit all of the D&D's multiverse settings in 5e before even thinking of making a prospective 6e a thing, so you'd better wait three decades or so, pal ;)
I can't see how the warlock is incomplete. It has sub-classes that range a huge variaty of Patron's now, they can be a pure caster\ gish or support, have lore and story hooks for any personal flavor you want to add and are mechanics-wise one of the more broken of all classes, with their crazy EB scaling, short rest resets and how easily they can abuse all the good feats.
Bacchus probaly it's their book of shadows it should be improved with more magic and stuff. And I think they have few spell slots l, yeah they get all of them in a short rest but you never have that time during a season. And I think they should get at list two mistic arcana .
According to Mike Mearls here, the Raven Queen holds the status of deity on at least one world, that of the Nentir Vale campaign setting, but not on every other world.
Why are Shadar-kai faithful to her considering she has them live in a terrible world despite everything they've done for her? If she's a god, shouldn't she have the power to improve their lives?
Played not quite right in Critical Role... The god of ensuring people die WHEN IT IS THEIR TIME. would be very much against any undead and it is really stretching things to have her make her"champion" (paladin) into an undead for any reason. Sending a soul back for raise dead, resurrection or revivify is far different from sending one back as a revenant. Putting the soul back in a body brought back to actual life is indicating the Raven Queen thought it was not really their time to die... yet. Also note that ALL of the spells for bringing some one back from death require the spirit to be willing. You can't force them. some specifically say "a willing spirit" Its implied for the others.
I personally prefer this to be much more nebulous rather than strictly connected to an entity known as the Raven Queen. I wasn't in favour of her warlock pact either, it's too specific unlike the others who are certainly more general. I also dislike the insinuation she's the one beyond the Hexblade pact. She's a cool character to be sure, but her existence should be optional in campaigns as per the book.
Isn't literally everything in the books optional, at the end of the day? Everything is at the discretion of the DM. If they want to invent a new Pantheon, they can. If they don't want certain classes for whatever reasons, that's also up to them.
I still don't understand why WotC wants so much to unite all world's cosmology into one. Why meddle with the perfect Nentir Vale Raven Queen, and remove her divinity there? Also, I prefer shadar-kai as humans. We already have other what, 8 variations of elves?
ollininvincible yes, I am aware of planescape and spelljammer, but that doesn't have to mean that the death of a god here must be the death of the god there. I'm left to wonder how WotC will take divinity and the planes of Athas and Eberron.
I would argue that the very nature of being a god in the D&D multiverse means exactly that. Deities fall out of favor all of the time. Portfolios have to be managed. Besides, RQ isn't being treated as a true goddess. She's in that fuzzy area that Bahamut fell into for a while.
Lets be honest, the original Raven Queen is the Pale Night. She was only mentioned once, but is probably the oldest and strongest of gods and abyssal lords.
I love these interviews, but someone needs to tell Mike that he keeps dropping into mumbles about 2/3 into his sentences and then what he's saying becomes unintelligible. I've had to start turning on captions for his videos
I love everything here. The elaboration in Tome of Foes is disappointing to me, however. It takes her from a mysterious and powerful quasi-diety with a protective interest in the dead (and hints of a underlying interest) and turns her into a rather weak and pathetic creature, grasping at memories out of self-preservation. I've ruled that the elaboration in Tome of Foes is merely speculation in my campaign.
I love Mike but he has this unfortunate tendency for his sentences to trail off into a low mumble/whisper and it's very hard to hear him speaking in videos even in a quiet room unless i have headphones on
So what about Shar??? Shadar-kai werent from the shade enclave? And the Shades??? That you also destroy that amazing lore and material... The Raven Queen wasnt Lawful Neutral? This doesnt make any sense.
Mike "You're fired as a customer" Mearls everyone. Raven Queen became a thing in Critical Role, so now it needs to be implemented everywhere. It seems they want to make her into some kind of discount Lady of Pain while still keeping their options open, so what you get is this very weird vagueness surrounding every aspect of her while still breaking established lore.
What an absolute mess of a convoluted character, perhaps it was supposed to be a push for mysteriousness but it just makes her seem like an absolute waste.
"Trope Talk: Mary Sue" by Overly Sarcastic Production. Try to watch that video. I think you'll realise that the Raven Queen is very far from being any kind of Mary Sue.
TravistheGREAT03 I thought I was the only one who thought as much. I don't dislike the Raven Queen, but I'm sick of everyone's obsession with her. Raven queen races, raven queen subclasses, raven queen lore everywhere...
The Raven Queen's lore is so fascinating! I feel like Matt Mercer and the Critical Role cast had a lot to do with garnering interest in her as a deity.
I'd bet money on it, that last farewell before she takes vax was some of the best story telling I've ever seen.
For HexBlade Warlocks is the Raven Queen a patron
@@Slightly_Irish_Mach she could be
also would say the same of The Adventure Zone... Know my enjoyment of Raven Queen came from her ties with the Death of Balance's campaign
she was not the most interesting person in the 4ed and i think there was a little about her in 3.5 but she has had a good following in the past
So she acts like a raven taking anything shiny and pecks at it, sometimes bringing it back to her neat.
Y'all got any of that uhhhhhhh, Feywild?
Athorell9 you’re soooo right I don’t think that wizards has made a feywild adventure for like, thirty years lol
YAAAAS! Everyone's been thirsty for more Raven Queen lore, but my warlock/sorcerer bats for Team Queen of Air and Darkness
QoA&D is great, I'd love more new material about her.
Ain't no feywild around here bucko. Anti-Feywild only.
@@ch00p my blood hunter/warlock has set out to vanquish her for the raven queen so uh... we might have a conflict of interests there
I thought The Raven Queen was more like a Grave Domain deity who disliked undeath.
I know that that's how TAZ Balance (and, to some extent, Critrole too) portrayed her, but it's really rather ironic - she isn't Grave Domain at all, but rather Death Domain.
So much for not associating with un-death, I guess...
Kinda, sure, if that's how you want your campaign to do it.
She could be, right? The domains are kinda general, so several gods can fit in their categories. For the Raven Queen Death and Grave are very logical choices, I think
Her origin story from one of my campaigns is that she was Erandis Vol that Ascended to a god-like being. She started the campaign doing work for the Blood of Vol and it was all designed for Erandis trying to regain her actual life. The Shadar-kai are actually her entire retinue of elves of Illmarrow that were transformed when the ritual that was supposed to bring her back to normal life transformed her into beyond death and undeath itself.
This has some pretty big implications about the nature of the Shadowfell. Before it was always treated like the Feywild and Shadowfell were kind of mirror-planes existing alongside the material plane of whatever setting you were using. So going with Forgotten Realms for example, you'd have the Feywild, Toril, and then the Shadowfell. The geography of one would be similar to the geography of the other, but could have differences based on what happened in that specific plane of existence. So for instance, if the Terrasque would destroy a mountain or something on Toril, that mountain would still probably exist on the Feywild and the Shadowfell.
But the way Mearl's describes the Raven Queen as some kind of interplanar being that exists across settings and rules over the Shadowfell, it seems like they've switched gears a bit, making the Shadowfell from all different realities kind of exist together. So conceivably, one could enter the Shadowfell on Toril, and then somehow find an exit to another world, like Athas (Dark Sun) or Nerath (Nentire Vale).
The way I would make this work is that there is one Material Plane that contains the worlds of Krynn, Oerth and Toril, and one Shadowfell that similarly contains Shadow-Krynn, Shadow-Oerth and Shadow-Toril. Some locations in the Shadowfell, such as the Domains of Dread or the city of the Raven Queen, would however be found on every shadow-world, surrounded by strange mists.
Wasn't that how the Shadowfel/Plane of Shadow worked in 3.5e though? Even if not, they sort of already did that by placing Ravenloft in the Shadowfel now. The whole domains of dread and the dark powers are now for some reason placed into the Shadowfel. Wouldn't that put them UNDER the Raven Queen? That bugs me. Not only that, but the Domains of Dread are gathered portions of lands from several material planes, so if they're in the Shadowfell, which Material Plane is that that houses them? I think separating it into a material but disconnected plane is the way to go given all of this, but it's still kind of a big change.
Since the Dark Powers like to manipulate souls they find worthy or unworthy, that makes me worry that the Raven Queen is either behind them, or is one of them. I'm slightly more ok with her being one of them but in either case I hope they stay mysterious and unnamed.
huh that’s interesting
I thought she was the “don’t let liches and the like cheat death” entity not the curious meddling entity
A T yeah, the adventure zone misuses a LOT of official dnd lore (not that it’s any worse for it.)
In 4th edition she indeed loathed undeath, many feats related to her cult was about destroying undeads.
I believe the "don't let liches cheat death" thing is pretty much handled by Kelemvor and his Doomguides now
4E and prior lore is naturally going to get updated. Hating undeath while allowing resurrection does in fact imply curiosity, and now we're seeing a more explicit confirmation.
mega17 yep. In 4E her followers commandments include:
Bring down the proud who try to cast off the chains of fate.
Watch for the cults of Orcus (demon prince of undead) and stamp them out whenever they arise.
There seems to be quite a muddled/ crowded mythology here. There is Kelemvor (god of the dead), Myrkul (god of death), with the raven queen seeming to fulfill a niche role surrounding life/ death as well.
I liked the Critical Role interpretation which focused strongly on her hatred of unnatural necromancy because she governs both death (transition) and fate. Plus she has a cool aesthetic.
Read the SCAG it's even more muddled with the Scribe of Death replaced by three gods that are in turn replaced by Kelemvor
They used to be setting specific (and Myrkul is dead, unless something's changed). They might be mixing things from different settings up now, but It's not exactly new to have two or more gods representing the same thing anyway. When that happens there's usually a struggle for power or they take care of separate aspects of their domain. If they're mixing the pantheons, it's understandable that they'd remove the undead hatred focus, since Kelemvor already did that is is much older and better developed.
Dr TBS -- Myrkul is back, actually, as is Bhaal.
Knew about Bhaal, but its the first I've heard of Myrkul being back. Must have missed that.
She reminds me of an Anubis figure more than a real world Hades, Devil, Satan. Very neutral about the whole process
My only wish is for WotC to revisit The Raven Queen Warlock pact. I’m playing one right now and it’s been super fun but we have made some adjustments to it. I’d love to see an official release sometime soon
Well, if they're gonna talk about her in MToF, maybe it will be in their. Probably not, but it's fun to dream, right?
Luis de la Vega What kind of adjustments have you made?
I would also like to know.
Hexblades are implied to be kinda sorta serving the Raven Queen in XGtE, but I get what you mean
i know right, it's awesome.
No mentions of Revenants :( Always liked them in 4E since they were the RQ's champions she would forge from restless souls. Her own squad of undead Terminators
Yeah, they were super awesome for that reason!
5th edition has been pretty dead silent on the Raven Queen so far. Up until XGtE, I don't think we've even had a mention of her. The Raven Queen popped up in XGtE when describing a potential patron for Hexblade Warlocks, but not much else is touched on. I really hope MToF covers more about her, so that we can get some 5e canonical information on her.
Kevin Tang the DMG has her included in the "dawn war deities" table (pg. 10)
D.M. N. Precisely, and that was all the information given on her
MToF will definitely cover her more, this is obviously just a brief overview and teaser, but RQ is SUPPOSED to be mysterious.
That said, Raven Queen isn't a potential patron in XGtE - She is the puppeteer behind one of the Hexblades, so your warlock should just be dealing with the sentient Hexblade and never even get a word from RQ. It's only a nod to the Raven Queen patron in UA - The Hexblade is the Patron, it's powerful enough for that.
If a sentient blade is fashioned by the Raven Queen, one would suggest that the blade is somewhat loyal to the Raven Queen, wouldn't you think so? So I guess it's indirectly deriving powers from the Raven Queen, if you know what I mean.
I'm also hoping that MToF will feature the Raven Queen more, but they didn't really mention it at all in this video.
Raven Queen was first "officially" introduced in UA: Warlocks & Wizards as an actual Warlock patron (a mixed bag at that). Even still, not a lot of information is displayed about her. At the very least, powerful enough that the almighty Wizards debated making her a patron option.
That said, I still very much want that to be refined into an official patron just like Hexblade was.
Currently the main figure of my goliath Blood Hunter’s pact of the Hexblade. Killing undead in exchange for Winter winds to end the heat wave cursing the rest of the goliath’s herd
This is perfect. I just made a Shader Kai Assassin, that preys the the Raven Queen, a few weeks ago :)
*rocks back and forth*
Thats not my lore, thats not my lore, thats not my lore...
Quothcraft as someone building a campaign based around long life i feel you buddy
then just don't use that lore, talk to your DM lol. for all purposes, I could make the Raven Queen a total drama queen that laughs at her servants, Up to the game.
That's cool, run your campaign however you want.
I understand people complaining about her being different from her 4e version, but people complaining about her not having her Critical Role traits should realize that Matt Mercer's world is a homebrew setting. Regarding the "she hates undead" thing, just because Mike Mearls didn't mention it here doesn't mean that it's gone, and if it is, there's always Kelemvor who did that long before RQ.
Really the Raven Queen from 4e couldn't fit in into Forgotten Realms. All of her portfolios are already held by other gods.
Love these videos, thanks Mike!
What is her connection to the Darkpowers and the Mists of Ravenloft?
Feywild and its courts please
YAAAAAAASSS!!! Bring Queen Titania, King Oberon, Princess Verenestra, and Queen Mab into the fold!
This would be a subject I would love to see in 5e lore
Yeah I had part of my Campaign in the Feywild and i had to do a extense research about it it wasn't that bad but hopefully we get more details on the new book
Yuuuup, we need this A.S.A.P. please
The Raven queen the most shrouded character in d&d multiverse
Lady of pain:yes
My personal favorite god like entity has to be the Pale Night. She came from another universe that ended and she was at the start of this universe. She creates monsters with a twitch of her finger and so hideous reality itself rejects her true image.
She so fascinating to me. I would love to know more about her.
-sees the title-
That's my girl!
That's my girl!!!
Jacki Lynn wonder what she would think of shar XD
I would be really excited for more Fey stuff!
I feel like her and the Lady of Pain might be BFFs.
If the Lady of Pain or Sigil are in that book, I would have to choke back some tears of joy.
This unbearable mary-sued ripoff would be mazed in a second
I wonder if they've elected to thematically adapt the Lady to the Raven Queen. I sure hope not.
Andy A I had no clue if you were talking about the Lady or the Raven Queen until the 4th last word of your sentence.
The LoP is perhaps the most overrated and boring deity in any DnD verse, who people only find interesting because she get's cool points just for being in the planescape setting.
ᛋᛋatania She's the font of pain, an intangible, abstract thing that only exists in the mind, even in D&D. Planescape, the Lady included, in much more than "cool points." With the possible exception of Dark Sun, it's the most adult and involved of settings. You can dive deeper in Planescape than anywhere else, and it's not because of the infinite planes; it's because of their finite nature. It's because the center of everything is a really just a mundane ring. Planescape constantly reminds you that that which is important is only because you make it so.
With all due respect, I think you're missing the point of the Lady. Pain is futile. So is everything else.
Matt Mercer's Raven Queen is a much better version of the character. Less mysterious, more benevolent, able to have a conversation and communion with. She's cool.
I like the Raven Queen better as a Deity/cosmic entity shrouded in mystery and inscrutable, Matt Mercer's take was cool and all but in my opinion it took all the juice out her and made her . . . kind of boring, his Pelor and Vecna were incredible though.
@@thefracturedbutwhole5475
years late i know but she is entirely still shrouded in mystery in Matt's version. all we know is that she watches fate and guides the transition between life and death.
Feywild and it's courts
Hexblade patron options
Please
I always consider Raven Queen to be a curious, relatively-young ruler who is LN
So we might be getting shadar kai (sp)? If so, my edge lord player is gonna love that race.
The rules for Shadar-Kai were already in november's UA as an elf subrace
This Raven Queen sounds very different from Mathew Mercer's interpretation of her.
Mainly because there's already a God of Death in Forgotten Realms via Kelemvor, and he's a pretty righteous dude as far as Death Gods go.
That’s one of the fun things about D&D. Everyone gets to put their own spin on things. Your Raven Queen can be a goddess, mine can be an Archfey, someone else’s might be something else entirely.
Matt Mercer's Exandria cosmology seems to be simplified and streamlined. I like it quite a lot, personally.
It's also a really massive change from the interpretation of her in previous stuff. Matt's is much closer to her original description.
But she could have been a minor psychopomp figure still, without the weird BS of her meddling in the proper course of death, and just this completely different take on her that might as well be an entirely new entity.
One thing I love about the DnD cannon is that you can steal ideas and if your players say anything well its not stealing an idea, its just using the already established cannon.
damn those cosmic entities meddling with forces better left alone
First campaign I even did was in 4th edition when Orcus was the go-to bad guy on the front of the monster manual and I had us fighting all sorts of undead to gain at her behest (the party never choice her as it's patron, she kinda chose us, especialyl one character who was a revenant.)
As this was going on I kept the "Heroes of Shadows" close to my heart. Played a race and class from it and reread the "keepers of the Everflow" paragon path again and again so when my party was told to fight Orcus 2/3s of the way through the campaign i instead had him explain that the whole undead thing is just him keeping souls from the Raven Queen so she cant turn them into her personal army, and in actuality He wanted the party's help to fight her and restore the Cycle of Reincarnation.
That's a neat take on it. Kinda turns the whole "Orcus is the KING OF EVIL" thing on it head. Less black and white, more grey. Even if he was lying about it, it adds some cool ambiguity to the campaign.
It was both really. He was did envy her throne but he also saw himself as the good guy in dethroning her. Of course RQ killed him right before the final battle but that just made more room for us
How does the wood elves and high elves view the raven queen?
The Raven Queen reminds me of the celtic goddess The Morrigan.
I’m pumped to worship her!
I tend to think of her as Mab and the Feywild/Shadowfell as Summer/Winter.
What about Shar, who created the Shadowfell by merging the remnants of the Negative Energy Plane into the Plane of Shadow when it collapsed? This seems to be overlooked heavily here, especially since my understanding was that The Raven Queen was a grayhawk deity...
She's not a Greyhawk deity, she's from the 4e implied setting (what Mike Mearls is referring to as "the world of Nentir Vale" in this video), which had no set world. Those gods are listed in the 5e DMG as the "Dawn War" pantheon, and feature mix of deities from various sources (some Greyhawk, some FR, some original).
Shar is Forgotten Realms, Raven Queen is Nentir Vale(which is kinda Greyhawk). And yes, Shar created the Shadowfell, but the RQ would just rule it(maybe after she took it from Shar). In the end it's up to WotC if, and how they want to rewrite the "canon" lore of their settings. Everything else is left up to the DM.
Shar only exists in FR, Raven Queen is a core diety in the Dawn War pantheon.
This is also an egregiously terrible take on her.
I hate this "she doesn't keep it, she meddles with it" thing. Like, why would you flip one of her defining traits? This is like giving Batman a sword and making him not scare people.
I’d love to run the raven queen as the Dorian grey meets Baron Von Zarovich meets Entreri
will there be more lore videos like this?
Well, if you know anything about the raven queen and vecna. The raven queen will be in the next season of stranger things.
Elves! Talk about the elves! Will we have Greyhawk's gray elves covered in Mordenkainen's Tomb of Foes?
I thought she was the one who knows and determines your death, and loathes those who deny their destiny, not that she’s just curious about certain people.
I don’t know if it’s okay, but I’m gonna stick with my description of her.
"The Universe of D&D is the struggle between Law and Chaos... But She is neither.. She is something in between"... So.... Neutral then.
I swear shadar kai have human origins, somewhat tied to netheril..?
In FR they are tied to Netheril, but in the 4e implied setting they are just tied to the Shadowfell and RQ. either way, they were descended from humans in 4e, and were just Fey (but not elves) before that.
I don't see why they couldn't be former humans or former elves since they are something different from either anyway. Elves really don't need yet another subrace though.
Some of the 4e are human, but the 3e shadar kai which were the first ones were fey like creatures, the ones he speaks in the video are the 3e one, which are old as fk, as old as the Raven Queen, the Human Shadar kai from 4e came from the spellplague, not that old
Whoa, the Shadar-kai are elves now?
So the raven queen is a shut in. Cool
During the critical role campaign ran by Matthew Mercer The Raven Queen was my favorite goddess so much so when my half-orc fighter died and we were looking for a means to bring them back I brought the Raven Queen to my DM who was also my cousin and so he would be brought back as a hexblade warlock multi-class but it quickly went to a place I did not care for he was playing the Raven Queen too dark and too villainous to where I want it out of the deal to the point where am I now half-orc fighter is now a paladin for Corellon Larethian ain't that crazy a half-orc worshipping the king of the Elven gods. we'll see how it pans out what's my characters out of his coma.
It kinda sucks when you are roleplaying as her cleric and one of your party members dies.
Why didn't Mike mention that The Raven Queen's origins were in 4th edition?
He mentioned the world of Nentir Vale, though.
i know its a big part of her story, but i really wish we could know her name as a mortal
I heard that it was Suzanne
I found out all this and more from a wiki site....
I'm confused. Every video says she's only existed since 4th edition, but that can't be right. I've multiple characters and notes from games in 3rd edition when it was young, about 18 years(?) ago. References to Shadowfell And Raven Queen appear in 3rd. Not clearly and explicitly defined certainly but it's there.
Wait, so what happened to Shar? Is she the Raven Queen in disguise? Or did the Shadowfell also eventually transform her?
whats with the weird cropping?
How can I become a cleric for the Raven Queen?
Thank you, my only question is, when did the shadar kai become elves? I recall them being described as human like
They were humans in 4e, so was the raven queen. I think they are changing the whole thing over to overlap with elves and the Seldarine (elf gods) in 5e and while I don't see a precedence for the change it's not one I'm opposed to, I always like to see the elves as being more magical than just pointy eared humans... maybe they are trying to make the elves a more planar race between the shadar-kai and the eladrin
In 3e, they were fey. In 4e, they were human-like and descended from humans. I guess in 5e they're splitting the difference and calling them elves.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, Mearls really likes elves.
Also, what the hell is this "they look withered and old while in the shadowfell" crap?
And RQ is a meddler in the transition of death now?
Nope. I'm ignoring 99% of this nonsense and just using the original flavour text for her.
This is an absurd level of completely necessary change that makes what it changes dramatically less interesting.
You men the same original flavor that had her LITERALLY DOING EXACTLY THAT... WTF do you think revenants are the result of if not meddling in the transition of death? She has ZERO issues with meddling with the transition of death when it catches her attention.
She literally was established as only having issues with sentient undead that sought it as a means of avoiding the inevitablity of death entirely.... She didn't care about undeath as a whole (mindless undead had no souls and thus she didn't care, meanwhile revenants were sentient undead she made and gave enough time to fulfill their purpose that they were denied because she also had the portfolio over fate).... she didn't care about people meddling with the transition of death... its something she is perfectly content with if you accept that you are still to die. At no point does she oppose resurrection magic, those seeking an extended but not indefinite life (such as Wizards who can grow to great age but will one day become a part of the magic that has always been a part of them), etc.... She is instead shown to embrace the idea of meddling with the transition between life and death, but not acting against the transition (which is what often leads to sentient undead).
I really don't like Shadar Kai as elves. There's already way more types of elves than there needs to be. Its becoming a tired trope. The old appearance thing... who came up with that? It's so bad. I prefer the 4e shadar kai desceded from humans. Keep the fey in the feywild and create a separate mythology for the Shadowfel.
Wouldn't the Raven Queen try to interfere when Acererak activated the Atropal in Tome of Annihilation?
Personally I prefer have the Shadowfell and the Raven Queen as the default after life for mortals because it's more in-line with most mythological underworlds. Most people go to just this kind of dull place where their spirits exist for eternity, while really special (evil or good or just impressive) people go to a special location. I reimagine the Shadowfell as more like the Kingdom of the Dead from Egyptian mythology.
In the Realms Kelemvor is the god who fits that description.
Nah, even more shrouded in mystery is the Lady of Pain, protector of Sigil.
I was looking up the Shadar-Kai today and everything I find talks about them being human or human like except the UA stuff and what Mike said. I don't know why people assumed they were human or human like. Unless there was something in the past that described them like that.
In previous editions they were humans altered by the shadowfel (4e) or general fey with no real connection to elves (3e). The sudden change to elf subrace from both previously established lore sources is bugging a lot of people.
Yea I just read an article about the change. Most of my play has been modified 2e so I didn't really know much about them.
When I was about to like the video, I noticed it was 666 likes.
I almost didn't press the like button not to spoil the beauty of such moment.
Is Falkon a servant of the Raven Queen?
Yeah I don't have lolth or the raven queen in my brew haha
what about the Lady of Pain?
The Shadar-kai are the descendants of Netheril. They’re not specifically elves.
Bring Greyhawk back! The Forgettable Realms are lame.
favorite deity EVER! at least her interpretation as a Goddess of Death. the fact that shes against undeath of any form, and takes it upon herself to make sure people who die stay dead, made her a fantastic deity for certain characters. ive used the UA raven queen warlock in a game, and it lasted much longer than i expected. i was glad it did, cause that was one of the most fun characters i had ever played. my dm also did an amazing job portraying the raven queen, so there was that. while we do have the grave domain cleric, i wouldnt mind getting a refined raven queens warlock, or something similar.
I have A Eladrin blood hunter who serves the raven queen in exchange for some....Things...lol
We need Mawr female death gods.
So is she a thing in the Forgotten Realms or does Kelemvor take her place there?
Kelemvor attempts to take the souls to their deserved afterlife. The Raven Queen attempts to interfere. I believe both of them hate necromancers and liches because they feel that once you're dead you should stay dead. Whether or not she's in your game's Shadowfell is up to your DM.
She has 0 opposition to necromancers in canon actually.... she is one.... She is perfectly fine with those that create mindless undead as it has no interference on the transition and the bodies are simply husks.... She also does NOT believe once you are dead you should stay dead, she actually demonstrably is not a believer in such a thing.
She is responsible for revenants, she never opposes the use of resurrection magic, she does not even oppose undeath in the way it is often assumed.
Her opposition to undeath (including an opposition to many necromancers) when given context always amounted to..... they didn't want to have a second chance to take care of unfinished business (she literally creates undead and gives them time to finish such things).... but instead by their actions they oppose the very role of death itself. Those that have the mentality of "I don't care if I die tomorrow but the world needs me today" aren't an issue because they still accept death. Necromancers is very broad and doesn't even require being one that deals with undeath but death magic as a whole, but even taking the common usage as those that create undead..... she doesn't ever oppose it as a whole but the path that many end up walking. Its one thing to raise skeletons, but the path many necromancers walk leads them towards trying to avoid dying at all or otherwise acting against the natural order of things.
She in canon has at the very least sympathy for certain undead as well.Those still tied to the mortal plane in death due to horrible deaths she feels bad for despite being intelligent undead that do not have to answer when she calls for them to move on (revenants she can claim at any time), because they never made that choice but rather are suffering like her people were before she became the Raven Queen.
She had so much lore in 4E
Y E S
The warlock's pact with her is awesome! !
You could realease an unhearted arcana about Warlocks pact with it but improved.
I see the Raven's Quenn as Raven from Teen Titans.
Are we going to get D&D 6?
D&D doesnt like to put out new editions too often. 4e didnt last long b it wasnt popular. They still have more prewritten adventures coming out, plus Mordenkainens Tome of foes isnt even out yet. itll be at least a decade due to 5es popularity.
WotC has confirmed that they intend to revisit all of the D&D's multiverse settings in 5e before even thinking of making a prospective 6e a thing, so you'd better wait three decades or so, pal ;)
Zillion Taborda Omg hahaha.
I love the 5 edition but I feel like the monk and the warlock still incomplete .
I can't see how the warlock is incomplete. It has sub-classes that range a huge variaty of Patron's now, they can be a pure caster\ gish or support, have lore and story hooks for any personal flavor you want to add and are mechanics-wise one of the more broken of all classes, with their crazy EB scaling, short rest resets and how easily they can abuse all the good feats.
Bacchus probaly it's their book of shadows it should be improved with more magic and stuff.
And I think they have few spell slots l, yeah they get all of them in a short rest but you never have that time during a season.
And I think they should get at list two mistic arcana .
Pssh, you want an enigmatic female figure, try the Lady of Pain in Sigil!
So shes evil? He described evil things she does shes lawful natural i thought...... So shes a petty god basicly
So... Kelemvor's no longer the God of the Dead in FR. Are they going to explain this?
According to Mike Mearls here, the Raven Queen holds the status of deity on at least one world, that of the Nentir Vale campaign setting, but not on every other world.
I love the fourth edition pantheon.
My girlfriend wants to be the Raven Queen.
I WILL BE THE RAVEN QUEEN! ..ps: I love you.
Make Torog great again
why is Mike pink in this one?
selúne is my clerics deity, she’s truly the best
Why are Shadar-kai faithful to her considering she has them live in a terrible world despite everything they've done for her? If she's a god, shouldn't she have the power to improve their lives?
Played not quite right in Critical Role...
The god of ensuring people die WHEN IT IS THEIR TIME. would be very much against any undead and it is really stretching things to have her make her"champion" (paladin) into an undead for any reason.
Sending a soul back for raise dead, resurrection or revivify is far different from sending one back as a revenant.
Putting the soul back in a body brought back to actual life is indicating the Raven Queen thought it was not really their time to die... yet.
Also note that ALL of the spells for bringing some one back from death require the spirit to be willing. You can't force them. some specifically say "a willing spirit" Its implied for the others.
I personally prefer this to be much more nebulous rather than strictly connected to an entity known as the Raven Queen. I wasn't in favour of her warlock pact either, it's too specific unlike the others who are certainly more general. I also dislike the insinuation she's the one beyond the Hexblade pact. She's a cool character to be sure, but her existence should be optional in campaigns as per the book.
It is. In the same way that say, Asmodeus or Demogorgon is.
Isn't literally everything in the books optional, at the end of the day? Everything is at the discretion of the DM. If they want to invent a new Pantheon, they can. If they don't want certain classes for whatever reasons, that's also up to them.
I still don't understand why WotC wants so much to unite all world's cosmology into one. Why meddle with the perfect Nentir Vale Raven Queen, and remove her divinity there?
Also, I prefer shadar-kai as humans. We already have other what, 8 variations of elves?
The worlds have been connected for quite some time. There's solid lore on this.
ollininvincible yes, I am aware of planescape and spelljammer, but that doesn't have to mean that the death of a god here must be the death of the god there. I'm left to wonder how WotC will take divinity and the planes of Athas and Eberron.
Same. If they screw Eberron with this nonsense they'll certainly lose me as a customer. I have no patience for this crap.
I would argue that the very nature of being a god in the D&D multiverse means exactly that. Deities fall out of favor all of the time. Portfolios have to be managed. Besides, RQ isn't being treated as a true goddess. She's in that fuzzy area that Bahamut fell into for a while.
Lets be honest, the original Raven Queen is the Pale Night. She was only mentioned once, but is probably the oldest and strongest of gods and abyssal lords.
Mike...it is time to just shave it brother. Just shave it off.
I love these interviews, but someone needs to tell Mike that he keeps dropping into mumbles about 2/3 into his sentences and then what he's saying becomes unintelligible. I've had to start turning on captions for his videos
So, basically... Raven Queen confirmed for DCA?! :DDDDD
I love everything here. The elaboration in Tome of Foes is disappointing to me, however. It takes her from a mysterious and powerful quasi-diety with a protective interest in the dead (and hints of a underlying interest) and turns her into a rather weak and pathetic creature, grasping at memories out of self-preservation. I've ruled that the elaboration in Tome of Foes is merely speculation in my campaign.
Again the word "soul" was uttered, yet there is still no satisfactory definition of what it means in D&D terminology …
I love Mike but he has this unfortunate tendency for his sentences to trail off into a low mumble/whisper and it's very hard to hear him speaking in videos even in a quiet room unless i have headphones on
So what about Shar??? Shadar-kai werent from the shade enclave? And the Shades??? That you also destroy that amazing lore and material... The Raven Queen wasnt Lawful Neutral? This doesnt make any sense.
Mike "You're fired as a customer" Mearls everyone. Raven Queen became a thing in Critical Role, so now it needs to be implemented everywhere. It seems they want to make her into some kind of discount Lady of Pain while still keeping their options open, so what you get is this very weird vagueness surrounding every aspect of her while still breaking established lore.
What an absolute mess of a convoluted character, perhaps it was supposed to be a push for mysteriousness but it just makes her seem like an absolute waste.
Out of so many entities and gods in the D&D multiverse, the raven queen might be the biggest Mary Sue
Any good lore needs a Mary Sue, so that's a compliment.
"Trope Talk: Mary Sue" by Overly Sarcastic Production. Try to watch that video. I think you'll realise that the Raven Queen is very far from being any kind of Mary Sue.
How is that even possible?
I really think the Raven Queen has to become overrepresented in 5e in a way that is not healthy.
TravistheGREAT03 I thought I was the only one who thought as much. I don't dislike the Raven Queen, but I'm sick of everyone's obsession with her. Raven queen races, raven queen subclasses, raven queen lore everywhere...