43311 vs 44111: What You Don’t Know! (READ PINNED) | Wuthering Waves
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- This is the proof to end the debate of 44111 vs 43311.
All the math is here, all the scenarios are here.
Want to know what you gain/lose the exact moment you swap?
When should you swap to 43311? Here's the video.
44111 vs 43311 Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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0:00 Intro
0:20 What is in this Video?
0:42 Do You HAVE To Swap?
SAME SUBSTATS
0:54 Direct Comparison 44111 vs 43311
1:34 Why is 43311 Better?
1:56 Damage Equation Visualization
LOSING SUBSTATS (-2 CR / -2 CD / -2 Atk%)
2:32 When Do Most People Swap?
2:59 Worst Case Scenario of Losing Stats
3:52 Damage Gap Table for -2 Substats (Elemental% Character)
4:58 Damage Gap Table for -2 Substats (Critical% Character)
LOSING SUBSTATS (-1 CR / -1 CD / -1 Atk%)
5:47 When You SHOULD Switch?
6:13 Damage Gap Table for -1 Substats
ALTERNATIVE SETUPS
7:14 2pc2pc 43311
7:42 5pc 43311 Atk% Elites
8:10 Summary
8:33 Outro
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So I was asked if I would A/B test an alternative thumbnail that focused on this Camellya art's greatest feature.
Let me know if I should've used this as my Thumbnail instead:
i.imgur.com/4aRRwmk.png
*TIMESTAMPS*
44111 vs 43311 Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L-AXsmuC5UV20j9iIn0ywObUJDV683LIhMjaRAawQuI/
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0:00 Intro
0:20 What is in this Video?
0:42 Do You HAVE To Swap?
SAME SUBSTATS
0:54 Direct Comparison 44111 vs 43311
1:34 Why is 43311 Better?
1:56 Damage Equation Visualization
LOSING SUBSTATS (-2 CR / -2 CD / -2 Atk%)
2:32 When Do Most People Swap?
2:59 Worst Case Scenario of Losing Stats
3:52 Damage Gap Table for -2 Substats (Elemental% Character)
4:58 Damage Gap Table for -2 Substats (Critical% Character)
LOSING SUBSTATS (-1 CR / -1 CD / -1 Atk%)
5:47 When You SHOULD Switch?
6:13 Damage Gap Table for -1 Substats
ALTERNATIVE SETUPS
7:14 2pc2pc 43311
7:42 5pc 43311 Atk% Elites
8:10 Summary
8:33 Outro
Not the feet pls 😅
Great Video as always.
Great video as always getting to the heart of the manner
Do you have any particular opinion on using attack main stat elite echoes for Lingering Tunes? I watched a video regarding active echoes and seeing Mech Abomination in action single handedly convinced me that I should swap my Calcharro to Lingering Tunes. Let's be real, both Mephises are awful as the one with better buffs for him is unplayable while the shorter and playable one has worse buffs for him. Both of which have infinitely more animation time for significantly less AoE. I have also heard that both sets are pretty close on him specifically, but then I thought about going attack main stat to make it maximally distributable in the tower as well.
Am I cooking too much with the attack main stat idea and I should just stop at electro elites for Calcharo?
I clicked because camellya thumbnail hot.
I felt like I was following right up until the talk of Atk% Elites.
When should you be using Atk% (and therefore 44111) instead of... whatever the alternative is? Im still pretty new to the game and realising I dont understand echoes as well as I thought I did.
Thanks a lot for the calcs!
But I have a question - How much would you lose out on by going 43311 with the 3 cost echoes from LOWER RARITIES but with better substats? The reason is, substat AMOUNT does not depend on echo rarity - Going from a lv 15 blue echo to a lv 25 gold echo gets you a 16% elemental dmg increase from main stat and you get to roll 2 more substats. But once you get the crits/atks/energy substats, the other substats you roll are prolly not gonna do much (due to a typical character's damage profile being split between different sources).
I feel like main stats dont offer too much in this game, and so lower rarities are viable. My primary motivation being to save tuners and echo xp material (blue echoes cost 60% less to level up at each level compared to gold).
A lv 25 echo that gets you a 16% main stat increase is astronimally expensive to a lv 15 blue echo. Adding to my point, I think 1 cost blue echoes should be considered, since you lose even less from the main stats (lv 15 blue echo - 8% atk%, lv 25 gold - 18% atk%)
very realistic approach for 44111 vs 43311... having luck in your substats is not guaranteed...
that is why in my yinlin i use 44111 having crit rate% and crit dmg% gives me more damage than having element damage for now that i cant tune for all 3 cost electro echo
Great video, lots of detail you don't find from other youtubers.
I've seen everyone recommend crit rate as the best sub stat for 4 costs. But from my napkin math, if you got a crit % weapon, and just a few crit % echos, crit damage should outperform it? But a guideline for which one is likely to be most optimal, would be nice.
I personally almost always use CR echo.
If you have a Crit Rate% weapon, CD Echo will always be better, even if overall CR sucks, it will still slightly favor CD echo. The issue instead becomes though is consistency. I would rather lose a little bit of damage to get better CR, than run a 40/210 split if I had the choice to do 60/170 instead. In longer fights, this is a minor DPS loss, but in shorter overworld stuff, it can help with enemies just tanking your very low non-crit damage, if all you need is to crit once or twice in general to kill fodder.
This *does* mean you will have to swap back to CD for harder content like Tower/Hologram though. Realistically, the decision of CR or CD echo is mostly just a "feels good" situation that has less than 5% overall difference, of which much bigger DPS variance will come from having enough ER to run rotations properly, and actually playing your rotations correctly.
@@AznvasionsII Cool, thanks for the answer. Think I'll stick to CD then, at least on characters where I got some lucky CR rolls. I don't mind the inconsistency, I like seeing big numbas.
what if i dont have a crit weapon and overall crit rate
@@earthlingx5267 definitely works and is better for damage in that case. Just be aware that you will probably end up feeding that for exp in the long run. It’s just a question of short term gains vs long term gains. If it helps you significantly now, you can go for it, since we play games so that we can, well, actually play. But yea, comes down to how long you’re willing to wait and wanting to save exp, versus actually being able to progress sooner.
@@AznvasionsII Damn I was in this situation some days ago, Got the 5* Standard Sword, CR Dreamless and a good luck on some of my echoes to have 70/177 but still felt conflicted about CD, ended up replacing the CR echo for a CD one for 48/221 but still had doubts, good to see that it's just a small difference.
I still have a bit over 4% CR to get from the weapon when it gets to lvl90 and still have to get a CD/CR dreamless with CR/CD substat but I think I can stop here for a while before minmaxing that
What if we take someone with huge modifiers, like c6 YangYang?
bruh provides excel sheets?? i subscribed.
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But thats the thing with % bonuses. They are very abundant so much so that they also lose value the more you stack it.
ok, to sum up, difference is in two pieces: 4+1 or 3+3. later gives you 3 substats for free. 4+1 is equal to 3+3 when it has 3 more substats
Just to add, from my experience the elemental damage does matter a lot. My Havoc Rover has suboptimal CRIT rate so does always do a critical hit but she can still on clear health bars of bosses prone to Havoc damage with her Resonance Liberation.
guys i think 33330 is better
Great Video, Your math is always fun to Watch. The only thing i want to add, is that you get quite a few elemental damage echoes from events etc. So an absolutely casual player Like me will already have equiped an average 43311 on 5+- Charakters by now. It is more time consuming to farm Bosses than not farming at all.
I think it is a very good move to give away a certain abount of These echoes for casuals while allowing people who truely want to spend all their time on the Game to farm for them but with very limited rates. It keeps the gap between all players low enough.
idk why but i felt how theres a mistake the substats compersion part. because its unrealistic how just missing 2 good stats its worst 32% than equal number of good stats.
but im not a prof so... u know
It’s 2 of cc, 2 of cd and 2 of atk%. Not just 2 of any combination of them.
I got all hp% and flat defense on my echo...Im feeling called out in this video
The argument of transferring 44111 to 43311 to me makes no sense why would I ever use crownless over dreamless on other characters (assuming ur not just going to fodder the second 4 cost piece)
I much rather just use 3cost ones with atk stat with terrible substats to just get through the early game and then fodder them later for late game
Because there are cases where casting Dreamless can be dps loss, and they would rather use Flautist or Roseshroom since they have 0 animation time to deploy Roseshroom, and Flautist can give concerto for greedier rotations. The flautist and Roseshroom debate is still a very significant one that is relevant even now.
Great analysis, but I feel like your 44111 situation is unrealistic. Getting an echo with 3 useful stats is exponentially harder than getting one with 2 useful stats, much less 4 useful stats. Furthermore, the limiting resource is not echoes in the long run, it's tuners and echo exp. I feel like it would be more realistic that switching to 43311 the moment you have 2 3-cost echoes with even one crit stat would be most efficient.
Hey, thanks for watching!
That's the reason why I projected 3 useful stats for the 44111 setup, because it's on the higher end of what's considered "good". A lot of people are also unwilling to give up their 44111 and will thus overinvest. The other reason why I used that benchmark, is because if you remove two echoes (4-cost and 1-cost, with 6 total useful stats) that have 3 useful stats each, they only need to be replaced by two echoes (3-cost, with 3 total useful stats, hence -1 CR, -1 CD, -1 Atk% overall) with 1.5 useful stats each, of which is a very realistic benchmark to reference off of.
This is not that far off from the suggestion you made of switching to 43311 as soon as you get 1 crit stat, as the refence I'm suggesting is 1.5 useful stats as the equivalent point. 2 useful stats would already make it superior.
@@AznvasionsII ah, you meant 3-4 total between the extra 4 and 1 cost. That makes a lot more sense.
Mathematically this is completely wrong because those 60% also aplies on everything including the critical rate values . So the correct answer is that 43311 its more than 30% better in all cases including bad rolls . With good rolls on 43311 its around 40% to 44% better in damage per second. Don't forget what dps stands for . In 41 to be better than 33 you need 150% critical values to be equal and the maximum you can roll in the game its 125% with max rolls .
The spreadsheet I made to get these numbers already includes average crit value calculations…the math has already been done dude. I hope you realize elemental% is diluted by resonance% as well. There are other sources of elemental% on a typical build than just elite mainstats.
I’m sure we’d like to know where these calcs you are referencing come from.
@@AznvasionsII spoiler alert, he has no calcs lol
tldr?
Crappy substat 43311 < godly substat 44111 ?
Don’t even need it to be godly. Decent substat 44111 is already equal to crappy substat 43311. Good substat 44111 is better than crappy substat 43311.
33311
I just wish people would accept the difference is negligible especially this early in the game.
I'm sick of the "you're ruining an bricking your account using 44111!!! Stop it's a scam!!"
Like nobody who pushed 44111 ever said it had more damage, just it was easier to far for specific sets an the damage difference wasn't a big difference. People just like to make everything make or break an it's annoying for a game like this were 95% of the time SKILL does most of the work.
The thing is, it isnt that difficult to get a usable placeholder relevant element damage 3 cost. You already get 6 of them just from events.
So 44111 being easier to farm isnt so true. To farm perfect stat? Yeah. To farm midrolls? Probly about the same.