Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2021
- The Spanish Gymnastics Federation (RFEG) officially acknowledged mixed groups in its 2020/2021 technical regulation documents. The country already held men's rhythmic gymnastics championships. Meanwhile, Irina Viner is pushing for the Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics and facing mixed response in her own country.
The development of a sport is fascinating. Without pretending to give an exhaustive vision of the problem (because I am very far from it, and there is so much to say, men in rhythmic gymnastics raising at the same time questions about society, sponsorship, television, management, etc ...) here is a very small presentation.
I thought about a lot if I should talked only about men's rhythmic gymnastics and not about Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics, since it's not the same sport. I decided to talk about it because it's actually now part of the discussion and general issues raised in the discussion. Tgymnastics are perceived, from acceptance (yes!) to disgust (unfortunately).
The video was posted in February 2021 but since then, in July 2021, Tatiana Navka (quite famous Russian figure skater) made a instagram post criticizing the gymnast Cristofer Benítez, simply for doing the sport he loves. The general situation, with FIG now leaning more towards accepting Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics, with Morinari Watanabe and Irina Viner being in favor of it, tell us about how men's rhythmic gymnastics (as done by the Spanish) is not seen as the acceptable version, like Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics is.
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Yeah, non even talking about non-binary, genderfluid people in sports and at the Olympics. I'm curious how the Olympics are going to look maybe in like one hundreds years...I'll be dead, but I'm still curious.
Articles used
ablock.fr/peterson-ceus-la-gy...
france3-regions.francetvinfo....
perrinenmard.atavist.com/unti...
www.menrg.com
www.beatricevivaldi.com/ginna...
www.beatricevivaldi.com/ginna...
www.ouest-france.fr/leditiond...
www.tapigym.es/historia-evolu...
www.tapigym.es/historia-evolu...
jrt.ru/page/104
/ mensrg
r-gymnastics.com/muzhskaya-khu...
rsport.ria.ru/20171104/112820...
www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/r...
www.yoron-forum.jp/forum202001...
bnr.bg/en/post/100959513/niko...
www.nippon.com/en/views/b02402/ - Sport
People figured out that women are strong but couldnt yet understand that men can be elegant.
So true. The main thing is that we can be as we are, and not be afraid of showing it for the world. 😊
True
Great Comment! Applies to so many life events.
Factss
god i smashed the like button
It is very sad that we are already in 2021 and the FIG has not yet embraced the sport in the male category.
It is indeed.
Not enough countries do the sport.
@@rg1whiteywins598 and not many will do it if FIG doesn't recognize it, same happened with male artistic SWIMMING, for world championships Kazan 2015 there where less than 10 mixed duets, and the number has growing since then
@@patem7379 Very well summarised.
@@rg1whiteywins598 we are quickly working to change that. Already, Canada, Russia, USA, Australia, South Korea, and Malaysia have gymnasts and judges who compete and train the Japanese style of MRG.
Gosh, I like the style that's coming out of japan, it's really celebrates the beauty of masculinity. I think 'the stick' is a lovely homage (whether by accident or design) to the military roots of mens' gymnastics. Meanwhile the choreography is within the cannon of male classical ballet regarding many of the style of jumps & leaps.
Yes, this needs to develop further
I wish both develope further and include both sexes in their competition. I would love to see female Japanese gimnastics competition as much as I love watching male rhythmic gymnastics fig style
yesss I adore it! it's got the perfect strength ^^ kinda like how artistic gymnastics is different but stunning for both female and male. I'm excited to see how it advances over the years
As a stick fighter, I was very pleased with the stick choreography. I wish he integrated some "martial" movements.
I also hope they add a staff as an apparatus.
The Spanish Gymnastics Federation (RFEG) officially acknowledged mixed groups in its 2020/2021 technical regulation documents. The country already held men's rhythmic gymnastics championships. Meanwhile, Irina Viner is pushing for the Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics and facing mixed response in her own country.
The development of a sport is fascinating. Without pretending to give an exhaustive vision of the problem (because I am very far from it, and there is so much to say, men in rhythmic gymnastics raising at the same time questions about society, sponsorship, television, management, etc ...) here is a very small presentation.
I thought about a lot if I should talked only about men's rhythmic gymnastics and not about Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics, since it's not the same sport. I decided to talk about it because it's actually now part of the discussion and general issues raised in the discussion. Tgymnastics are perceived, from acceptance (yes!) to disgust (unfortunately).
The video was posted in February 2021 but since then, in July 2021, Tatiana Navka (quite famous Russian figure skater) made a instagram post criticizing the gymnast Cristofer Benítez, simply for doing the sport he loves. The general situation, with FIG now leaning more towards accepting Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics, with Morinari Watanabe and Irina Viner being in favor of it, tell us about how men's rhythmic gymnastics (as done by the Spanish) is not seen as the acceptable version, like Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastics is.
I think everyone can see that Japanese rg (男子新体操) is another type of gymnastics. If the translation was literal, it would have been "new gymnastics". But for a reason of coherence it was translated into "men's rhythmic gymnastics" (新体操 being already translated "rhythmic gymnastics").
I wish Spain France and Bulgaria will pressure the fig now that Russia is out. I would love BOTH to be on the olimpic games with men and women playing both.
It’s exciting that the Japanese style is quickly gaining momentum internationally. In October 2021, USA Gymnastics announced that it was finalizing the procedures to officially recognize the Japanese style as the discipline that the country will adopt. With this announcement, that means we have 7 countries spanning the globe so far!!!
Japan 🇯🇵
Canada 🇨🇦
Russia 🇷🇺
USA 🇺🇸
Australia 🇦🇺
South Korea 🇰🇷
Malaysia 🇲🇾
Additionally, Canada, USA, Australia, and Russia have individuals who have trained and been certified in Japan as judges. I will also go to take the judging certification course as well.
This is definitely an exciting time!
Well, I hope the "Spanish" version will be allowed in the near future! However, the Japanese version do deserve to be recognised as well!
P.S. Russians disliked men competing in Artistic Swimming, but when Mal'cev proved himeself to be a true champion, they changed their minds.
Same becuase im the boy who do spanish one
The sad irony is that men's Japanese rhythmic gymnastic has more rhythm than the modern women's RG. Most of you say that Japanese RG is not RG, but you can't define what rhythmic gymnastics means. RG is perfect fluidity of body and apparatus movement in sync with music representation.
Japanese version is revised AG with apparatus, no flips in air in RG
I'm so conflicted that I think the Japanese men's rhythmic gymnastic is not actually RG but I also agree they're more musical and fluid which is how RG is supposed to be...
@@PeiwenTanbassoon821 I totally agree, i wish women RG remined like this. The COP during reign of Mamun and Kudryavtseva was one of the best.
@@PeiwenTanbassoon821 I'am a bit confused. What is it about it you dont think is rythmic gymnastics? It is deffinetly gymnastics and rythmic.
@@lidular I'm saying it's a totally different sport from the internationally recognized official "Rhythmic Gymnastics" even tho I actually find it more rhythmic and gymnastics
I'm proud to be a male rhythmic gymnast
😎you rock bro
@@yazoshprajmineva5623 huh, whats up with this toxicity?
@@dontkillmyvibe3146 Thanks
I used to do RG as a teen and now I am a sociology student. I am very touched to see guys entering this sport and I encourage you guys to continue. It gives me goosebumps. You are beautiful :')
@@yazoshprajmineva5623 then why comment if you really are? 🤣
I think we witness something extremly interesting. Two and maybe more ways to interpret mens RG...which one will be "the one" to follow or do they blend into each other? I have no problem to see how they create rules (like the use of two small hoops) that highlight the beauty of mens skills and don´t have something to do with the "original" RG. There is a lot of creativity going on.
i think the best thing would be judging both men and women with the same Cop and then watching what is making the difference and making codes acording on what we are watching on the carpet
I'm Japanese and I'm a fan of Japanese style MRG. When I read the comment section, I felt that there was a misunderstanding about Japan's MRG. One is that Japanese MRG has been seen as a male-only sport from the beginning. Japanese MRG is a sport that was born in Japan nearly 80 years ago, but when it was called 団体徒手体操(means group freehand gymnastics) right after World War II, the sport was practiced by both men and women. . In other words, there was a male version and a female version with the same base. There is currently no female version, and there is a reason for that.
In the 1960s, women involved in 団体徒手体操had a strong desire to be active in the world. Meanwhile, in 1967, two female athletes and a coach visited the 3rd Rhythmic Gymnastics World Championships held in Copenhagen and were fascinated by the gorgeous and sophisticated style. They brought that rule back to Japan, and proposed that the traditional 団体徒手体操 should be stopped and that only women should do rhythmic gymnastics, which originated in Europe. The proposal was discussed and approved by the Japan Gymnastics Association at the time. As a result, the women's version of 団体徒手体操was discontinued.
On the other hand, the gymnastics association and the athletes at that time decided to continue to form the same organization for men and women because men and women had developed together until then. However, there were no individual events in 団体徒手体操. Therefore, in the mens version, we created a new individual event using apparatus to make it consistent with women's rhythmic gymnastics. And the Japan Gymnastics Association decided to call both men's and women's gymnastics 新体操(means new gymnastics).That was in 1968.
The following year, 1969, Japanese female athletes participated in the 4th Rhythmic Gymnastics World Championships in Bulgaria and finished fifth. It is unthinkable without experience in 団体徒手体操for just over a year after starting rhythmic gymnastics.
There are also comments written as if there are no women doing MRG in Japan, but that is not the case. In recent years, although the number is small, the number of women (mainly girls) who perform MRG is increasing in various parts of Japan. There is a problem though. The Japanese gymnastics association does not allow female athletes to perform men's rhythmic gymnastics. This means that when they grow up, they cannot participate in public competitions. They participate in private club championships as a mix.
czcams.com/video/7FhDBXNEhGE/video.html
I would like the Japanese-style MRG to change its name and officially allow women to participate. I think that would solve some of the confusion and problems surrounding MRG.
Let me inform you of the history of “Japanese men’s rhythmic gymnastics” and its name, since there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings.
Actually, 新体操 was translated from “Modern Gymnastics” (not "New Gymnastics") in 1967, which was performed in many areas in Europe. In Japan, women’s rhythmic gymnastics is also called 新体操. So, discussing the word itself doesn't lead us to the right track. Rather, I think it is just an issue of translation.
Also, the first competition for freehand group routine for men was held in 1946, which means men's rg has much longer history than women’s one in Japan.
I’m afraid many people misunderstand that Japanese men’s rg is a new discipline created after women's rg was introduced. Actually, it is the sport that was invented originally in Japan, and not the sport which “changed” women’s rg.
Thank you for your comment as I think many people still misunderstand this and as I got it over quickly during the video. Yes, for it's just a translation problem because of English and that's why I though it was good to talk about it.
And for adding some informations to the useful things you already said: there are still in fact countries that called rhythmic gymnastics as "modern gymnastics" like Czech Republic or Slovakia or countries that called it "artistic gymnastics" like Russia, Ukraine, Israel etc...
Yeah. Japan for one have a long history of Men's Rhythmic Gymnastic. It's developed indenpendently as a way to improved physical strength and health as early as the 1940s. Men's rhythmic gymnastics in Japan was originally created by adopting elements from Swedish, Danish, and German gymnastics. It has been taught and performed for many years. Since FIG didn't recognized Male athlete in this field the Japan Gymnastic Association have seperated rule for men.
Currently, in Japan both Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics and Women's Rhythmic Gymnastics are under the umbrella of Japan Gymnastics Association and major competitions are often held at the same venue. Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics in Japan consists of two types of events: group events of 6 people (freehand or no apparatus) and individual events using apparatus (stick, rings, rope and clubs). Both group and individual events are performed on a spring floor, allowing gymnasts to do various kinds of tumbling during their performance.
The Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics in Japan is sometimes called synchronized tumbling, combining the dynamism of powerful acrobatics and perfection of synchronous moves. Male's athletes are judged on some of the same physical abilities and skills as their female counterparts, such as hand/body/eye co-ordination, but tumbling, strength, and power are the main focus, as well as apparatus handling, flexibility and movements called "Toshu" ("freehand"). There are an increasing number of gymnasts, competing alone and on a team; it is most popular in Japan, where high school and university teams compete fiercely
It was brought to Japan first as a male sport as a way to improved physical strength and health and gradually the woman rhythmic gymnastics started to gain popularity while men's ryhthmic gymnastics remained popular.
Thanks for telling. I understand that. But both are different sports with different basis and BOTH. Should be considered. Men and women should compete in Japanese gimnastics while men and women should also be competing equally in rhythmic gymnastics
I usually donʻt pay much attention to the Olympics except for the opening ceremony - a rare review of all the people on our Earth. But this year I saw womenʻs rhythmic gymnastics and was fascinated. However, I asked myself: why just women? So I looked up menʻs rhythmic gymnastics. This is a beautiful sport. I am so amazed at what humans can do and when they do it together, so wonderfully coordinated, then I have no words for my wonder. I hope that this sport takes off in schools around the world.
In my opinion, the Japanese version is not RG at all. It's more like a mixture of acrobatic and artistic gymnastics. Their most body movements are not related to rhythmic gymnastics.
I saw a clip of the Japanese version clubs routine where the athlete does more backflips and I could not see him do a single leap or pirouette during the entire routine.
I wish they stuck to the standard Rhythmic gymnastics style no matter what the gender is.
The Japanese version should not be called rhythmic gymnastics at all since it misses some of the very basic RG styles.
Yes, I do agree with you
True. I believe they do it that way to avoid being "too feminine" which is sad cause there's nothing wrong with being feminine.
I disagree. Men’s and Women’s artistic gymnastics are vastly different in both discipline and style. Yet both are called “Artistic Gymnastics.” In my mind I hope the Japanese style prevails. I have started training it in hopes of helping it spread more in my country. I really enjoy it.
Exactly!
I like this, but they need to only compete against other men, because even on those little pieces, you can see the physical strength issue. I love rhythmic gymnastics and could really enjoy a mens competition.
what physical strength issue?
Same like men in ballet. They do turning jumps that I have never seen a woman do. Not in dance nor gymnastics.
This needs to be a thing I love it Imagine mixed and men rhythmic and synchronized swimming
Love thia video. The Spanish RG could be incorporated into rhythymic gymnastics and directly comparable to the women's.
The Japanese RG could be a brand new catgetory of its own and it would be so fascinating to see how that grows. It's almost like a version of cheerleading.
If breakdancing is considered an Olympic sport, then it'll be so cool if these also get included!
I was not aware that Men's Rhytmic Gymnastics existed until last week when Tatiana Navka posted on Instagram a picture of a male rhytmic gymnast and made a very derogative comment. In the light of this, I am surprised to hear that the leader of the Russian RG federation supports the involvement of male athletes, I thought Navka's opinion was common in Russia. I think men should be permitted to do this sport too (maybe with some differences), if women can do wrestling, weightlifting and soccer. Based on the video, I like the Japanese RG very much!
I love the rhythmic male gymnastics they do in Spain.I think that’s the most similar to the ones in the competition.
It is indeed following the women's rhythmic gymnastics FIG rules. And sometimes with some adaptations too, the same there are adaptations of the international code at national and local levels for women.
Thank you so much for this video which includes many interesting (and rare!) infos about beautiful Men’s Rhythmic Gymnastics!
P.s.: Appreciation for Yuzuru Hanyu’s music at the end 😌
the japanese men’s rg was amazing to watch. it almost reminded me a little of cheer been had it’s own charm to it. i would love to see it gain popularity because it was simply incredible
Beautiful moves and such a pity it is not recognised more!
My thoughts - why not? They will be recognizing breakdancing, so this makes more sense to me than making breakdancing an "official" sport. I'm all for equality in sports, so I'd love to see men's RG in the Olympics. If Viner supports it, others easily can too. It would add a cool element to the sport!
Break dancing could be an official sport.... in the Xgames which include skate boarding etc.
@@mairedaly4926 Its because the current Olympic sports are kind of dry. Mostly old people watch the Olympics, nowadays kids couldn't give af. Breaking is huge and is growing bigger by the day, so they want to tap that audience. Because when this generation grow up things like television broadcasts and Olympics are kaput. They have to start opening up to things. Watch this space, MMA will be one in the future most likely. Breaking doesn't need the Olympics. It's the other way around.
Also one of the much cooler aspects of Breaking, though I doubt they'll do it in this Olympics, is kids compete against adults and men compete against women. This is an element you don't get in any other sport.
Its a much more radical thing than most realise.
I wish we have men's rhythmic gymnastics in USA. ✌️😛🎉🇺🇸
We do! There are several gyms and experts that are training the Japanese style, myself included 😀
@@LotusPandaCrane Ohh well good for you and them👏👍😎
@@LotusPandaCrane Wish they'd train the spanish style as well
I don't get why so many people are arguing against Spanish Men's RG, using ballet as an example for a sport with differences between the male and female parts.🤔 The majority of techniques and training in ballet are unisex, with the exception of partner work (lifts, turns, ...) and pointe - both of which aren't part of RG typically. Furthermore, the base of RG is ballet, both male AND female. Big leaps, many turns, and no pointe would usually be considered "male", whereas fouettes, balances, as well as the "elegant" physique of most rhythmic gymnasts, are traditionally "female" in ballet. Male and female ballet aren't as different as they might seem at first, and even then it's obviously the same sport. When looking at expanding a sport for both genders, the highest priority should be recognisability - whether it's ski jumping, ballet, or RG - anything else can be adjusted to match the expectations. Male and Female RG don't have to be the same, but they should not be so different, that they cannot be recognized as the same sport by a person without any knowledge about RG.
true
exactly. you can see how both sports look completely different. they come from different originsand they have completely different elements. i thing both should be separated but with mixed genedered competitors
That was very interesting! Thank you very much for educating me. I noticed there's a new anime series out focusing on men's rhythmic gymnastics and had never known it was a thing, so this was really helpful!
Which anime?
@@matheuslacerda4672 It's called Bakuten in Japanese or just Backflip in English.
I knew someone will talk abt bakuten here
Japanese version is cool but it’s not RG! They could create a new discipline, but I don’t think that calling it RG and comparing it with the Spanish version will be right.
Yes, agree! I believe only Spanish version is truly Rhytmic Gymnastic. I would celebrate man joining and developing into RG in that verion.
Japanese version is truly revised Artisctic Gymanstic with apparatus, because RG doesn't have any somersaults in air.
@@kaienzhu8760 yes and it actually amuses me as this is the one Viner/Morinabi are pushing towards since those elements are actually explicitly forbidden in RG!
@@nadejdakopanova415 you're right that Japanese RG doesn't follow the natural emphasis that RG has for the body work nor the apparatus handling
@@nadejdakopanova415 The absence of danger in RG is why the sport is so boring. The Japanese version is actually watchable. In my not so humble opinion.
This is stunning and very sad that there is a male/female imbalance in the artistic arts like this.
I see people in the comments arguing over terminology and potentially outdated opinions on what is and is not RG.
How about just updating the entire thing to allow everyone to compete and do more advanced tricks?
We do not move forward by remaining stuck in the past.
I like the Japanese men's ryhthmic gymnastics because they demonstrate the gymnastic and athletic moves while retaining that masculine feel. They didn't move like the usual women's rhythmic gymnasts.
The spanish version of this sport is awesome really, but i’m not a fan of the japanese version ngl because it isn’t rg. They do artistic and acrobatic gymnastics movement that the female counterparts just doesn’t do, so it isn’t the same, it isn’t equal and can’t be compared which is sad...
really i think exactly the opposite thing. Modern rg gymnastics doesn't have rhythm and character, it is a cheap circus rush for difficulty. At least the asian men's RG kept the rhythm and the character. The point of RG is the body & apparatus movement in sync with the music, this is exactly that we miss nowadays in RG (women version). BTW the spanish guys play fem rg which is stupid and wrong. Even is artistic gymnastics women and men have different apparatuses for a reason.
I love it all. The individual of Japanese is original mens rhythmic gymnastics from long ago.
That’s mostly because the Japanese version is it’s own original thing, I think it’s just mistranslation straight up classifying it as RG.
@@vivs9314 yes.
@@vivs9314 yeah,people should read ouen MRG comment,that guy point out abt japanese mrg
Japanese' one feels like another discipline. I prefer the Spanish version of Men's RG and hoping that one is recognized by FIG. I also think the apparatuses should remain the same
true
Thanks for this video! I've never seen the japanese RG, only the spanish one (which I am really not a fan of). On the other hand, I LOVE this japanese version! I am going to watch more videos of it! Personally, I think that it should be right to differentiate the sport for the gender, not for sexism but to highlight physical possibilities of both genders: I mean, even in ballet men and women have different "difficulties"! (I hope I'm being clear, it is sooo difficult to express something so delicate, and english is not even my language!). About Paris 2024, it is such a mess: if they approve male RG there is no way a high number of athlets will be ready in 3 years with a brand new regulation for an OLYMPIC competition (not just gala!), so...
Oh, and about the "Not popular sport", I think it is really a good point: I've never practice RG because when I was young (I'm talking about 15 years ago!) there was no school close to my home (the closest was more than 2 hours car ride!), and I'm from Italy! After the "farfalle boom" many more schools have appear, and now there is one even in my town, but in many parts of Italy it is still just a "balletto col nastrino" (little dance with little ribbon), many don't take it seriously as a sport(even athlets from other sports...), so it doesn't surpise me at all this disinterest for an evolution...
Hello! That's a very interesting comment, so thank you for it. I got the same feedback from another Italian gymnast. For girls doing RG in Italy, at least there isn't the "oh you're doing a girls' sport" comment.
On ballet, I'd like to add something because it's a (hidden) second passion.
While I do agree that there are difference physical capabilities and that it is good to bring the best out of these capabilities, I'd also like to be bring you some keys elements on ballet. Ballet technique come from a long tradition going back to the 1800s and Romantic ballet technique. Women were expected to do ghost/fairy roles with work on point, showing elegant and fairy moves. They works on balance and flexibility first. Men had to do real person, living on the earth and not in the clouds. That's how a whole technique tradition was built: men learning jumps and big trick while women learn to move elegantly and show off their legs, feet and arms. It got more complex with time, classical ballet and then neoclassical ballet bringing new elements, but followed those foundations of ballet.
Women and men in ballet have to learn a certain repertoire based on those throughs (which bring us beautiful things, I am not saying abolish the Classical ballet). It is just important to know the context. The difference between men and women in ballet is of course a question of technical abilities but also a question of what technique was learned and transmitted until today.
I got you,I know what you mean.
NO you can do that with the actual RG code. Im sorry these are different sports AND adopting japanese gimnastics as Male RG would be DETRIMENTAL to the sport. as you can't male mic¡xed groups with girls and boys traind in such different sports
We have male fugure skating and dancing, why not RG.
A sport has to be widely participated in order to be considered for inclusion in the Olympic program of events. At the moment, male rhythmic/new gymnastics is performed by only a small handful of men and, therefore, does not yet qualify for inclusion in the games.
Thank you so much for this video!!!! I learned so much in these 7 minutes, I wish I could hire you to be my school teacher instead 😂😂😂
I coach a gymnastics show team in denmark, and I take a lot of inspiration from MRG. I really like it, and it is much more entertaing to watch. Furthermore in denmark it is expected that boys who do gymnastics usually also do rythmic gymnastics. we do have disciplines where you dont have to, but the two most popular are performance and teamgym, where it is more or less a requirement that you do the rythmic aswell.
Oh that's interesting! Thank you for your comment
« RG isn’t even a popular sport in many countries » ok but if the guys aren’t allowed to do RG they won’t be concerned about this sport. Maybe RG is just stupidly loosing audience by sexism.
My thoughts are : we must allow people to express themselves in every sports.
I do agree completely, that's why I said it was a vicious circle and why I placed "prejudices" as the first reason. RG not being a popular sport in many country is one of the reason but not the first reason of course.
I would add that allowing men might be a sweeping change for the podiums! I am quite tired of the same medals for the same countries :(
C'est bien, il faut encourager l'égalité !
I'd love to see men's rhythmic gymnastics in Olympics. I thought it would look weird for men to perform in the sports. But this video changed my mind.
From an acro gymnast perspective
I like the Spanish version the best I think that the Japanese and russian mixed pairs have a lot of acro elements balance and dynamic moves
Acro is also fighting hard for recognition and to get into the Olympics I am alittle worried that rhythmic could start to blur the lines and incorporate acro more into it I would like both acro and rhythmic to have a platform and not have the main defining part of acro lost and then the recognition it does have to be lost because a similar sport has the only pic spot
Dunno if it makes sense but I hope that men’s rhythmic becomes more prominent
I'm not extremely familiar with acro but I watch it occasionally to know how it looks and I was wondering about this aspect of blurring the line and absorbing others sports. Thank you for commenting and confirmed what I expected.
i fully see your point, japanese gymnastics is basically acrobatic gymnastics with aparatusses (only in individual category) so it would be the acro gimnasts and male rhytmic gymnast following fig CoP the fully perjudicated ones.
My bet is to include the 3 tipes of gymnastics and the three of them with both men and women
BEAUTIFUL!!
La Gimnasia Ritmica masculina Asiatica o japonesa coincide exactamente en la definición de Ritmo y masculinidad, por lo tanto es la mas idonea a ser llamado GIMNASIA RITMICA MASCULINA..
The Japanese version looks so cool!!!
I don't really know why they Japanese version is called rg... It has nothing to do with it! It's awesome, of course, but there shouldn't be "men rg" that isn't rg at all and "women rg". There should just be rg - practiced by everyone, who wants to practice it. And as I said, I love Japanese version, but I wish it wasn't named like this, because it can be confusing.
yup true
I get the prejudice issue that Spain male RG is addressing. But even if the Spanish style departs less than the Japanese from traditionally female
RG, it doesn’t mean it makes more sense. Especially in a sport that has ballet as it’s core technique. It’s as if male ballet dancers were doing female ballet dancer elements. Men have different physical capabilities and therefore male ballet is different (and in my opinion superior to) female ballet.
While I do agree that there are difference physical capabilities and that it is good to have sport that bring the best out of these capabilities (and that you obviously can preferred men doing ballet than women!), I'd also like to be bring you some keys elements on ballet. Ballet technique come from a long tradition going back to the 1800s and Romantic ballet technique. Women were expected to do ghost/fairy roles with work on point, showing elegant and fairy moves. They works on balance and flexibility first. Men had to do real person, living on the earth and not in the clouds. That's how a whole technique tradition was built: men learning jumps and big trick while women learn to move elegantly and show off their legs, feet and arms. the difference between men and women in ballet is of course a question of technical abilities but also a question of what technique is learned.
Why do you think male ballet is superior?
Thanks!
I'm a fan of Gerard, he's awesome. But I lean more towards the Japanese style. It highlights the male physique and skills, while the Spanish version is a copy and paste of the female counterpart.
AG and Figure Skating do the same thing: The core sport is the same, but they're adapted to each gender. They're also judged differently and have clear differences while still being intertwined. I think that's the way to approach this, with the Japanese individual style: Music, an apparatus, but a code of points and elements much more befitting of men.
I totally agree. The Japan version Is exciting and It fit men's phisical abilities...doing the exact same thing as female rg Is not entirely right in their regard cause It highlights flexibility, grace...from a phisical point of view they would be penalized and from an aestetic point of view many of them would never even consider the sport, cause it's structured to fit women aestetic...equality Means to also recognize everyone's strenght and weaknesses. Maybe something in the middle of the japanese and spanish would be the best
Yes I agree with everything you said. Men and boys trying to copy the female gymnastics doesn't seem fitting to me. The Japanese variant is very strong and truly exciting imo.
Same thing in ballet - the same base for men and women, but while women are required to do pointe work (which looks light and airy but does require strong, lean legs), men have more difficult, also higher jumps, are expected to lift, often one-handed, and do multiple pirouettes more often than women.
What is masculine or feminine is transient and a social construct... let's move on from the outdated pink and blue arguments shall we.
@@thedanceshack16 it's not about the words it's about doing the same. There should be a difference and men should have the possibility to show something else since their physique is different. It's not about the construct but the logic behind it. Like in figure skating.
Well, I'll tell you what. As a male gymnast who competed in the 70's in high school and can still do back handsprings and aerial cartwheels 40+ years later, I wish RG had been available - I would've made the switch. I think it's fantastic that men are competing now.
Before I watched this video I never held Irina Viner in high regard after seeing videos of how she's verbally undressed her own Russian RG gymnasts. But, knowing now how she endorses men to be in RG - she's now earned my respect.
It's completely fantastic indeed that RG is spreading more and more!
However, Viner endorses men to be in RG but in a certain way only...
the version viner endorses is the japanese one if i remember correctly.
Can we have pairs RG too?
I would love to see men doing rhythmic gymnastics! I mean the routines that were done by the Spanish and French gymnasts looked fantastic! The Japanese version is cool as well, but I think I prefer the Spanish version more since it’s more similar to the ”original” version and I would love to see a more grounded version where men can show the same qualities as the women. And also, the big reason why it’s still an unknown sport is that we don’t know it actually exists! Like, until this video I didn’t know that there was a version of RG for men that was under the same rules as the women and I only knew of the Japanese version. So how is it going to be more popular if it’s not talked about?
exactly!
the spanish one is the original one. they are judged with the same code as the females.
Honestly I will join when theres a Men Rhytmic Gymnastics here in my country
here in spain it was born because a kid wanted to do rhythmic gymnastics and he was allowed in the club. maybe trying that route could be possible for you
Japanese gymnastics shouldn’t be considered RG at all as long as they use lot of acrobatic skills not allowed in women to keep de identity of the sport …however I find good they try to have a “masculine” version of the sport I think retiring the acrobatics and adding more male ballet-like style would be better
In the other hand Spanish version fulfills 💯 the definition of the sport, and it must be approved right now by FIG…even though I guess the artistry and stage presence should be again more close to male ballet technique rather than women RG . Not meaning it’s bad but as WAG and MAG I think is good to have an own identity that differentiates both disciplines
To find a balance between breaking the prejudice but also having a very own personality I f I were FIG Technical comitee I would take the Spanish version with some changes:
Replacing ribbon for rope
Having costume rules that enhance male ballet attires
Adding a strength element in use of a technical apparatus element or AD (such as in artistic gymnastics FX) then promoting a strong physique as in male dancers …I mean imagine. A plank position with a ball roll or a handstand with foot hoop handling 😅
Adding jump difficulties similar to male ballet (múltiples tour en l’air, cabriolé, entrechat)
We’ve had the Japanese version for 60 years in America.... it’s called Winter Guard.
Thank you for using Yuzuru’s Heaven and Earth music! Lol
I am for it👍👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I would definitely watch that discipline!
I came here cause of Ranma bringing up the subject! It did not dissappoint!
I like it
Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics.
Like It 👍 👌 ❤
Russians should create their own version of male RG, they have some of the greatest ballet dancers like Nureyev or Baryshnikov. It would be great if we can see something like that in a sport.
Japanese version is great but don't have dance elements
Yes, I have the same feeling that why Viner doesn't think about their own-styled male RG, Russia is supposed to have more opportunity than some other countries.
Japanese male RG yes it's artistic and aesthetic but it isn't rhythmic gymnastics, it should be named other way because it does not follow the same base of work, for example MAG and WAG despite having different apparatus they still share two apparatus and in general the work on each discipline come from the same base therefore it is inclusive, despite the different physical capacities of each genre, even there's a campaign to promote guys doing balance beam and girls doing rings, parallel bars etc, which for me it's fine it's inclusive, but when it comes to RG why there's an issue about seeing a guy to perform a more ballet based sport which even it's based on male ballet, and that at difference with the Jpanese rhythmic gymnastics, the Spanish school of RG follow the same work base for apparatus handling, risk, masteries and BD, yes I'm pretty sure male rhythmic gymnastics still needs a lot of work to do to adapt it to the physical characteristics of the male body, because we want it or not it has difference with the girls, but these changes will not happen until we give green light to male rhythmic gymnastics, sadly this issue illustrate how much we are narrow to accept that everybody should be able to practise the sport everybody wants, if FIG supports Japanese RG to be the counterpart of traditional RG then it means that equality in sport isn't achieved, I'm not saying Japanese RG should not be supported as a sport, but trying to convince us that that's how RG for male should be then it would be some kind of hypocrisy, because in mynown opinion it would mean that asides from phhsical differences it would be a message that say - Hey women and men cannot do the same
yeah true
I think a blend of the Japanese and Spanish would do justice, i. E the Japanese Apparatus minus the extensive acrobatic + more RG elements. Just like any other sport that celebrate the male and female bodies , there are elements that showcase the various gender capabilities than others.e.g ballet.I think the Japanese Apparatus will appeal to the masses i.e Male which will then get more people interested in the sport which will then warrant the inclusion in the Olympics. RG as a whole has a long way to go, not many countries participate in the sport, so opening the criteria will go a long way and almost accelerate the adoption of the sport
Somehow the Japanese version looks rather like a mix of modern dance and martial arts.
👏👏👏Молодцы🙌✨
If men can be ballet dancers and figure skaters. Two disciplines that also require strength, flexibility and grace. Why not rhythmic gymnastics as well?
here in Michigan they just changed it and made it available for men to join rg teams
Nice information!
Is the code of points of women same as mens?
Personally, I support Men's RG, but the thing is, so many sports favour men over women.
agreed... of course men should be able to practice rg if they want to, but just like that women should be able to practice every other sport that "prefers" the opposite sex. I wish people would stop looking at others' genitals and just let them do what they want. Equality isn't only about giving men what they don't already have
@@GumGirl I couldn't have put that better myself!
@@GumGirl exactly!
Those sports (rhythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming) could help improve muscle flexibility in men, and many taboos from past generations would be broken. We have the opportunity to be a healthier society, mentally and physically.
truly!
Irish Dance origins have a small comparison: boys only did heavy jigs and horn pipes and girls only did reels and slip jigs back then. A few years later, girls started dancing in hard shoe and soft reel shoes were worn by boys so that they could do reels in soft shoe.
Interesting!
My view is that
1. Every Olympic events, including all dances and ballet and ice skating and artistic cycling, are favouring men due to criteria from power (that of major muscles.) Only 2 that emphasis delicate control and feminine figuring. We are, heading towards space age, power is going to be less valued than delicate control. There should be more events with criteria supporting the development of women’s body, specifically!
2. Once they mix men into these 2 events, human tendency is to alter the criteria ‘equally’ so that men are winning again. ( power speed ), these plus the condemnation of European women slender long leg figure as racism, will move RG body towards that of artistic floor gym body, favoured by asian women. Sharapova VS Williams, williams win! ( ...but actually racism was on Williams so that black women don’t get that ballet figure, keeping asian women happy).
3. In gala and shows, boys interested should show talent. I support male in gala. Concern is if competitions are the focus, millions of asian boys gets pushed into deadly competitions to ( finish off Europeans lady’s leading edge for asian women ), putting pressure onto boys age 3 (yeah, asian!!!) -25 sacrifice masculinity male development ( helping to make European men unique but American black men wouldn’t agree) and spent 50 hours per week ( try the asian boys!!! Maybe 50+++) getting a none profit three medal every 4 years. It’s a concern about physical and mental/psychological health for the boys but, not every nation sees this way, and half the population on this Earth would just carelessly watching those ‘kamikaze’ keep going. Boys have larger chest and smaller hips, once the criteria gets pushed to favour boys, that slender long leg fit Europeans lady body figuring, is gone explained as ‘Aryan’ myth again.
I've seen a lot of people criticize and bad-mouthing Japanese Men's Rhythmic Gymnastics saying that it's not really rhythmic gymnastics. I disagree. IT IS Rhythmic Gymnastics!!!
Personally, I like the individual Japanese version much more than the Spanish one.
First of all, I know that the groups look more like Acrobatic Gymnastics, as they don't have any apparatuses and they do a lot of things that they do in Acrobatic Gymnastics. They probably should add apparatuses in their routines.
Secondly, the individual version has a lot of similarities with the Women's Rhythmic Gymnastics, as they both have 4 apparatuses and they use music as well. The only difference is that men do acrobatic skills instead of pivots. They also do jumps and balances, especially in the groups. The apparatus is also similar, as they also have clubs, rope, double rings instead of hoop and stick instead of ball.
I want to ask all of you something!!! Why Viner has invited so many times the Japanese rhythmic gymnastics men to Galas, but never the Spanish ones?
It's because she likes and supports more the Japanese version.
As you can see in this video she included the japanese version in the Charter of the Russian Federation and now it's officially acknowledged as a new sport in Russia. She even has men training in the national team and puts them in Galas. It's obvious that she likes the japanese version better.
I mean I’m not sure how Viner liking one more than the other makes one more valid
I think the fact that Spain’s male rhythmic gymnastics isn’t often seen as often as Japans I can see why that would also play apart in why they put the two against each other
same thoughts! ultimately, I think I'll like to see a fusion of both styles popularized by Spain and Japan.
@@tendercuriosity9938 that would be cool although I’m curious how they would do that without sacrificing something important to one or the other unless they just allowed men to do things from both but I wonder how that would affect the training regimen since the acrobatics required more body strength but the flexible difficulties require you to be slimmer I think
To me Japanese RG isn’t RG BUT it’s amazing and I really like it. I don’t think we have to choose between Japanese and Spanish RG. We should allow both.
@@aramisaramis7784 agreed! and also, we should allow women practice the Japanese version
Sorry, but japanese rg is another type of gymnastic. The real rhythmic gymnastic is the spanish version
I think everyone can see that Japanese rg (男子新体操) is another type of gymnastics. If the translation was literal, it would have been "new gymnastics". But for a reason of coherence it was translated into "men's rhythmic gymnastics" (新体操 being already translated "rhythmic gymnastics"). I find it interesting how a discipline who is very different from rhythmics gymnastics is currently the one most favored to be part of FIG.
Yes, you are right！
@@ClematisRGVideos Hi, I enjoyed your video very much. I can see a lot of hard work and dedication. Let me inform you of the history of “Japanese men’s rhythmic gymnastics” and its name, since there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings.
Actually, 新体操 was translated from “Modern Gymnastics” (not "New Gymnastics") in 1967, which was performed in many areas in Europe. In Japan, women’s rhythmic gymnastics is also called 新体操. So, discussing the word itself doesn't lead us to the right track. Rather, I think it is just an issue of translation.
Also, the first competition for freehand group routine for men was held in 1946, which means men's rg has much longer history than women’s one in Japan.
I’m afraid many people misunderstand that Japanese men’s rg is a new discipline created after women's rg was introduced. Actually, it is the sport that was invented originally in Japan, and not the sport which “changed” women’s rg.
Wow
Bonjour. Merci Clematis pour cette vidéo très intéressante :)
J'aimerais cependant contredire le deuxième paragraphe de ton commentaire. En gymnastique artistique il y a deja d’énormes différences entre les hommes et les femmes. Les hommes ne pratiquent ni la poutre ni les barres asymétriques. De même que les femmes ne pratiquent ni les anneaux ni les barres parallèles. Le sol entre les femmes et les hommes présentent aussi de sérieuses différences.
J'aime bien la gymnastique rythmique des japonais car elle tient compte des différences entre les deux sexes. Je trouve ça dommage de dire que ce n'est pas de la gymnastique rythmique juste car il y a des acrobaties. On retrouve une réelle composante artistique (peut être même plus que chez les femmes ou en ce moment c'est juste des enchainements de difficultés les uns après les autres...)
Bonjour,
Je te remercie pour ce commentaire :) Il est vrai que je suis passée très rapidement sur la GAF et GAM en description et (malgré mes très maigres connaissances) je sais qu'il y a des différences entre GAF et GAM, même pour le sol (musique, certains éléments obligatoires différents...); c'était simplement pour montrer que même quelqu'un qui ne connait pas bien la GA peut dire "c'est le même type de gymnastique" que ce soit un homme ou une femme. Mais il y a en effet de sérieuses différences.
Je suis totalement d'accord avec la composante artistique de la rg japonaise: l'attention porté à la musique est souvent merveilleuse et meilleur que ce que l'on peut voir actuellement! Dire qu'un sport ne peut pas être artistique en raison d'acrobatie me paraît étrange.
@@ClematisRGVideos Je te remercie d'avoir pris le temps de lire et de répondre a mon commentaire :). La seule chose que je souhaite pour tous ces athlètes c'est que la discipline soit enfin reconnue car l'entrainement auquel ils doivent se plier demande tellement de sacrifices...
I can see the IOC maybe allowing a revised version of rhe Japanese style, maybe with no music, acceptable outfits etc but they will never allow the Spanish or Drench versions.
I really would've tried rhythmic gymnastics if men was allowed🥺
I love it
Men are allowed now you can still try.
It is very sad, because I have veen looking for a RG school, but in my country anyone wants to train me, just because I'm a man
I hope you get to train and people stop being so prejudiced :(
Bernie mac show brought me here
i stopped doing rg bc i was prejudiced. I stopped training in 2016 and i am just watching rg from afar. It hurts you know.
I feel sorry, I was prevented from practicing RG because boys weren't allowed at that time :(
The Japanese new RG is really hot...the other...let it go...
nah
we fight so much for equality yet from a very young age we teach children another thing!!! shame!!!
Yeah. Sport has no gender.
Seria um sonho se FIG reconhecesse ginastica rítmica masculina
Mais FIg deveria usar mesmo aparelhos do feminino corda aro bola mazas e fita , eu não gosto dos aparelhos usados na ginastica rítmica japonesa
I am a male and I always wanted to give rhytmic gymnastics a try. But the original version, not the Japanese version. To me I feel like the Japanese made it less feminine than the original version and I didn't like it. I'm glad the Spanish kept to the original curriculum when men practice the sport so everything stays feminine. I like girly stuff anyway like aerial silk/hoop and pole fitness, so rhytmic gymnastics is next on my 'to do' list. There's lot of men out there from any country doing ballet so I don't see why not men give rhytmic gymnastics a try.
Yes, that's a great idea!
Thank you for the very informative video. Is the Japanese group and individual RG for men only? Can women perform with a stick or rings too ? RG will get even more attractive and difficult if more apparatuses become allowed.
Sadly its men only
maybe it will be a thing if more men around the world practice it. But young men today who are doing parkour and tricking and various forms of over the top superhuman routines are not waiting for FIG or any other organization to tell them what they can and what they can't do, stigmatization is not the same thing for men and women, men love niches and they all find theirs. I think men are not into this, and those who are make much more money in circuses and tv shows, so the need for it isn't there it, and forcing the issue, like the west has been doing for the last 10 years won't solve any problem but compound existing ones. Sport like anything else should be organic and evolve naturally, from the street to the public, to the big screens, like skateboard and all the new events we see today in the Olympics. So no I don't agree, not because it's a women's sport, but because the number of men athletes and their public hasn't reach a critical mass yet and making the sport official without the public's interest is just taking up screen time that could be given to other much more prominent and generation defining sports like parkour and tricking and Esports, things that genuinely interest people.
I agree.
My opinion: maybe men's and women's RG should probably not hold the same rules. I mean, some movements look very graceful for females, but not as good for males, mainly due to body proportion differences. That's something which needs to be put into consideration.
I totally agree.
Peterson Ceus is a hero!
Imagine Peterson Ceus at Paris 2024!!
Japan seems to have developed an RG in which men do not stop being manly at it. However, their RG is not purely rhythmic as it contains acrobatics, which in itself is yet another FIG discipline, acrobatic gymnastics. So the Japanese mix these disciplines. However I like that they have their own apparatus. On the other hand, western men's RG is truer to the rhythmic principles. But most of the time, they look like men trying to imitate women. RG is way too femenine as a sport. Also, I do not understand why women cannot have a space only for them!
This exists??
wait.... is that tenchi I hear?
yes!
@@ClematisRGVideos AYEEEEEE I love tenchi!!!!
Spain's RG Is the best.....not that artistic jumping from Japan
Japanese gymnastics is like a mix of rhythmic and acrobatic gymnastics
@@jimenacatalin2317 I don't like it one bit.....it should be regarded as another discipline
@@abiyejoseph2980 I think everyone can see that Japanese rg (男子新体操) is another type of gymnastics. If the translation was literal, it would have been "new gymnastics". But for a reason of coherence it was translated into "men's rhythmic gymnastics" (新体操 being already translated "rhythmic gymnastics").What I find interesting (and the reason why I included it in the video) is how a discipline who is very different from rhythmics gymnastics is currently the one most favored to be part of FIG.
@@ClematisRGVideos I think what would probably help is if men basically use only rope,hoop,ball and club.....and use the 80's and 90's CoP with no dance steps required.... just Continues AD and BD(my best friends idea)
I think with that people might try to see rhythmic gymnastics as not only a girl sport.....
I'm a boy and I'll really love to tryout rhythmic gymnastics even though I'm not flexible
@@ClematisRGVideos Let me inform you of the history of “Japanese men’s rhythmic gymnastics” and its name, since there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings.
Actually, 新体操 was translated from “Modern Gymnastics” (not "New Gymnastics") in 1967, which was performed in many areas in Europe. In Japan, women’s rhythmic gymnastics is also called 新体操. So, discussing the word itself doesn't lead us to the right track. Rather, I think it is just an issue of translation.
Also, the first competition for freehand group routine for men was held in 1946, which means men's rg has much longer history than women’s one in Japan.
I’m afraid many people misunderstand that Japanese men’s rg is a new discipline created after women's rg was introduced. Actually, it is the sport that was invented originally in Japan, and not the sport which “changed” women’s rg.
I personally like the Japanese gymnastics more than the Spanish one
Sería un gran triunfo contra el machismo que se reconozco la gimnasia rítmica para varones. Todos los miedos sobre el cambio del deporte deberían desaparecer, porque todo evoluciona, nada debería ser fijo. Y ya que están con los cambios, deberían de revisar el sistema de jurado para que ya no haya corrupción ni favoritismo.
The thing is rhythmic gymnastic for men has to stem from a sport on in itself and not based on female version of the sports. Search Nikolai Tsiskaridze where he dances with a fan in his hands. Just search his name and It’s the video where he did a solo in Carmen. Or here’s the link
czcams.com/video/OTrsCcgFZLo/video.html
It’s gotta be something like that. Not with a fan of course but with a different apparatus . And pay attention to the clothes he is wearing as well. That’s the types of leotards male rhythmic gymnastics should be wearing. Of course it will revolutionize from there but they need to stop wearing the same style as women’s rhythmic gymnasts too much. It looks off
I think the men can 100% be recognised in RG but I feel like they should do rope, ball, clubs and hoop instead. The Japanese men are incredible, but that is not really RG. Yes it is really fluid and artistic, but you lose the leaps, turns, balances, risks and masteries of RG. So it is a really interesting topic but surely yes men's RG should be able to be recognised by FIG.
Japanese version is like revised AG with apparatus
I agree. Same type of ropes, balls, clubs (possibly larger?), 2 small hoops, and not having ribbon since I find it quite feminine. I think a good replacement for ribbon is a stick or a baton for men. The men could also put masculine ballet and acrobatics together in their routines
@@jaysarno6216 Agreed but MRG should also have ribbons as that would look more interesting
I think the FIG should recognize male ( Spanish ) rg, male gymnasts have been shamed for so many years and have been told that rg is just for girls or that a man can't graceful, thankfully france and spain have helped a tonn but it's not enough, the FIG needs to wake up and recognize male gymnasts doing "Spanish " rg, if women can do all olympic sports then why not men ?
Actually the female competitions are a question mark too at the moment, apperently some people in the olympics dont consider it a sport “worth” of that level, they said it could be removed in short times, so i guess they wont introduce male competitions either
I think Spanish version is far better but I'm not sure I want to see ribbon routines in men (I think it's a very feminine apparatus). I think they can make a CoP with rings, clubs, ball and rope and achive the gender equality. It can be like artistic gymnastics 2 same and 2 different apparatuses.
Your comment is really sexist. Would yo think it’s OK to say that you wouldn’t love to see a woman playing footlball because the ball isn’t femenine? If you do, you should really think about it.
@@lauragregorio5852 I'm sorry I didn't mean to be sexist. I just think ribbon doesn't suit a man perfectly. I have all the respect women playing football. All I'm saying is some apparatuses just can't get the full potential out of someone. And because of the nature of man's body there won't be dance steps etc. It's like still rings they wouldn't have took the full potential out of a women's body.
@@ekinadacalk3077 I recommend you to watch some Gerard López routines. If that’s not the full potential of RG, I don’t know what could be. I underestand your point of view, but everytime single gymnats adapts her routines to her skills, so men in Spain are doing the same (without the need to create a new code).
I actually think the stick is really cool and suits better than the ball (though it needs a more original name cause stick sounds funny)
@@ygb6586 I agree every word of yours.
Talk please 😥
Mmmmm, NO.
I call the Spanish version gay's rg 😅😂 the Japanese version is like a dish with little bit of everything, definitely not rg... Overall, men's rg is more like walking in high heels not gender equality 😁
What a sexist comment, but your username explains a lot
@@sb8095 like what?