Complete rebuild Model F-AT & F-XT
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2023
- Replacement of neoprene & cord repair. + minor repair of two Model Fs.
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Tools I regularly use
DeoxIT D5 Contact Cleaner
Hanstar 861DW Rework Station
Pro'sKit SS-331 Desoldering Station
UNI-T UT61E Auto Ranging Multimeter
UNI-T UT890D Manual Ranging Multimeter
MESR-100 mk2 ESR meeter
PINECIL Soldering Iron
PinePowerPSU
TS-100 Soldering Iron
AMTECH NC-559-ASM Flux
Kester 951 Flux pen
MaAnt Grinding Pen
Multicore 60/40. 0.38mm and 0.5mm solder
TL866 II Plus Programmer
RIGOL DHO800 70MHz four-channel digital scope
Tektronix 2246A 100 MHz four-channel analog scope
PCBs from PCBWay.com :)
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Join me on Twitter: / epictronics1
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio - Věda a technologie
Great job you did again. Steven now works on 2x IBM 5150s. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Thanks. Good luck with the 5150s
Great video! Might be the best Model F video on CZcams. Some comments, though.
I've purchased replacement foam from the same eBay seller. You don't need to trim it. If you insert the tabs on the barrel plate into the corresponding edge cutouts/slots in the foam, and then reassemble the keyboard, you'll find that the foam fits perfectly. Not too big or small. I've rebuilt/restored several Model Fs with this seller's foam... it's always a perfect fit on each project I've done. (Wouldn't surprise me if the seller is cutting these to IBM's original specifications.)
Also, nice find on the protective plastic on the IBM badge! You wouldn't believe how many original owners never removed that from their keyboards. Definitely keeps the badges in A+ condition as the years go by.
Thanks! Keep up your great work on these keyboards.
Thanks!
Did you find that the foam was too thin? I ordered from the same seller, and while it was perfectly cut, the original foam in my XT was twice as thick. The replacement holds the barrels fine, but it doesn't fill the gap in the middle. I have two XTs from 1983 currently disassembled; one is 4.59mm at the widest gap between the plates, and the other is 4.71mm. The original foam completely fills the gap. The foam I received from the seller is only 2.01mm. I'm going to order some different foam sheets in several thicknesses, and a leather punch set to cut them.
@@fonseca898 Yes it is thin, but it worked on the boards I used it on. The only issue I experienced was that the space bars on F/AT keyboards typically didn't have the same "thock" sound as they would when using the original foam. That was a while ago, though. These days I've gotten away from using replacement foam (where ever the source, or even foam I source and cut myself) and just have been keeping the original foam in a lot of the F/XT and F/AT keyboards I work on. 90% of the time, the foam doesn't need to be replaced.
Back in the day i had a Model-F XT with my first PC (Circa 1992), didnt realise then how much these can be worth these days.....
If I remeber correctly I used it with an adapter on my AT 286- 12, used it up and to my later 486 "Garage sale parts upgrade" PC circa 1996.
Very impressive! An old article on the Model M recommended a 1/4" drive deep socket, 7/32" size for servicing it. That allowed me to reach the three deeply recessed screws on that one. A deep socket is is probably not news to you but you might find it convenient to grab one and be done with it if your tolerance threshold for unnecessary annoyance is as low as mine. This may come from a childhood of having only pliers, a hammer and a few really bad screwdrivers to work with. (The good old days.) 😉
Oh, in that case, maybe I have the correct nut driver! I just assumed these bolts were larger than on the Model M and didn't think to try! Thanks!
This is an excellent, educational video. Thanks for sharing.!
I personally would not recommend bending the tabs (other than the one lock tab). When I originally did that on an XT, it resulted in a "dead" typing feel, for lack of a better word. You need that plate under tension during reassembly. Bending the tabs back to their exact,. original orientation, or even tighter, does not result in the same typing feel as sliding the plates together while under tension.
I use small clamps on the edges of the plates to keep everything aligned, and get a second person to put pressure on the middle of the plates from both sides, while sliding them back together. It really seems to make a difference for me, but other people might not notice or care.
Thanks! Interesting. I'll do a comparison next time. I have tried both methods before but didn't think to compare the sound and feel.
Regarding the spacebar, I haven't heard of them outright breaking. However, it's impossible to reattach the stabilizer bar once you remove it.
There are a few methods to try and fix this. The one I came up with involves filing the tabs that grab the stabilizer bar in such a way that it's actually quite easy to re-attach. This effectively eliminates this problem and has caused me no issues. Given other methods tend to also require modification (ex: drilling holes in the barrels to fish with floss) I'd consider this a very good method.
This also allows you to assemble without the spacebar installed, mitigating the other use of floss demonstrated in this video.
As far as parts, Model F Labs creates entire reproduction Model F's which is cool, but they also do sell foam sheets and cork feet among other parts. So they're a useful resource.
Honestly, installing the back plate was super difficult for me when I did it. I never want to do that again.
Yeah, I have some serious cravings for their Model M style Model F. Probably the perfect keyboard for me but it's a bit pricy...
Beautiful work as always; love the feel of the F!
Thanks! A fresh foam pad takes the amazing Model F to the next level.
For the curly cord, if you want it to be as springy as the original, you need to invert the coil after doing the heat trick.
I thought I would try that trick in this video but the cord turned out very nice. I'll definitely try that with some future project, thanks
@@Epictronics1 Yeah perhaps it's better to try it out on something less important.
@@UpLateGeek I better try it on something off-camera first :)
wow thank you, extremely helpful!!!!!!!!!
Fixing threads.... A drop of acetone and mush up the inside a bit and then let it fully dry and hard.
Sounds like a good solution. I may try this, thanks
Very good content each week. Thankx a lot for sharing with us. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Thank you :)
I've always just used 2 part epoxy on plastic screw holes that are cross threaded or otherwise damaged. Mix the epoxy and put a bit on the screw. Turn the screw in and leave it. Just dries in place over time.
Can you still remove the screw if ever needed?
A very good question. I believe so, but it has been a very long time since I've done it. Probably best not to trust my memory and test the efficacy on something you don't care about before trying on your Model Fs.@@Epictronics1
Awesome video! Loved the repairs. I look forward to one day when you are fixing a Coleco Adam keyboard!
Thank you!
You typed 'jumped' instead of 'jumps'. You didn't test the S key.
I enjoyed seeing how those keyboards went together. Like you said, they are highly over engineered - but that's why they last so long!
After 15 years of using MX brown keys, any clicky keyboard is a challenge, even the best of the best :)
Not tried brown MX yet. I'll take your word for it
@@Epictronics1I too prefer tactile switches but they seem to be unpopular now as there are many more clicky and linear switch designs than tactile. However, i do love the model M for everything except gaming; mine happens to have been made in 1986 here in Scotland, probably at the Greenock plant.
@@initial_kd Because of the lack of n-key rollover?
Browns suck
@@Epictronics1It's effectively a MX blue without the click, but the keyboard itself (acoustics and the sound consistency between keys) and keycaps (the feeling) are also very important. With clicky keys, the click sound is usually quite dominant, but with 'silent' keys, differences between keyboards are way more noticeable... But it's a big of a rabbit hole too 😊
To treat the rust on the plate, you could soak it in a product called Evaporust. It won't harm the plastic, and will remove the rust without having to sand it. After a rinse and dry, you can respray.
I may try that, thanks
Evaporust is the best. Vinegar can actually break down protective coatings on metals and make the rust WORSE.
I still have my Black Model M13. Amazing keyboard. I got a new cable from Unicomp a few years ago. 👍
Oh, wow, those are super cool. I'd love to get my hands on one of those someday
ah that's why those keyboards are impossible to find! You got them all! :)
You know, I'm not sure I understand how the mechanism works? Where is the clicking coming from?
Haha, It's quite a fascinating design actually. The spring is pushed down until its limit and then has to move sideways and crash onto the wall inside the barrel. IBM filed the patent under the wonderful name "Catastrophically buckling compression column switch and actuator" How's that for an interesting design name!
The best keyboard I have ever used came on a IBM RT.
Wow, that thing seems very rare and interesting. Never heard of it before I googled it now
@@Epictronics1 I was involved in setting up a travel coordination email system dedicated to a high tech company, Gandalf Technologies. It was a pilot program where employees accessed the system directly, making travel requests etc., thus avoiding time consuming telephone tag. Alas, the current technology/software available at the time wasn't quite up to the task.
Magnificent work, as always. I'd love to do this to my Model Ms, but the cost of materials for bolt-modding is insane down here, and I can't import new membranes. Model Fs are also unobtanium, so... Cherry clones all the way for now. :S
I understand that the foam isn't strictly necessary? Maybe you could test that in the future.
Thank you. I haven't tried a model F without the foam pad. I'm sure it would work but it would probably be insanely loud : )
You should try one of the Northgate Omnikey keyboards. Just as good as the IBM F and M. Heavy suckers, great key feel. I have two in storage.....can't use them with my iMac. But a year or so ago LGR reviewed a similar keyboard to the Omnikey made by Unicomp. Its great too.
Yeah, heard of it but never tried it. Seems great
@@Epictronics1 if you want to try one I’ll loan/sell you one of mine….
Just make sure the switches are clean. Alps go from great to awful the moment it gets dirty. They can be taken apart which is a bonus.
I have a model F with a soarer’s converter. I love the typing feel, but I can never find the enter and the backspace keys.
Yeah, same here. Too bad they predate the Model M standard
I may have missed it. What was your source for the precut foam padding? I have an IBM PC 5150 PC (not XT) model F 83 key that I want to refurbish. Also any source for cork feet? love the video keep up the good work!
Thanks. I got the neoprene sheet from the eBayer kbdzero. I have not tried to find cork feet yet. Good luck with the project
Great video. I have two Model F keyboards I would like to restore. Could you tell us the correct thickness of the foam?
Thanks. Sure, there is no way to tell what the original foam pad ones was, but the neoprene sheet I used in this video is 2mm.
I've never tried it but I bet you could use something like your baking soda & superglue trick to fill in the screw holes, then re-tap them.
yeah, that would totally work. I may try that
in case one of the keys, letters C and J, in my case, don't work, what's your advice? after cleaning it, worked for a week like brand new and then letters C stopped working and now J.
Have you taken the PCB out? I would check the spring first. Then if there is dirt or corrosion on the PCB
That would be the Focus FK-2001 keyboard. :p
I had to look it up. seems like a nice kb
Is this a Chyrosran22 alt account, that's his favorite keyboard too.
@@SonicBoone56 No, but I do enjoy his videos
@@Epictronics1 nice. He's the reason I bought an NEC APC-H412.
Sorry No. Just been in computers since mid 1991. So I try to offer advice, etc, etc.@@SonicBoone56
Hi
Their keyboard was such trash they had to make the weird-shaped keys to prevent biting. LMAO.
It is also weird that they included the space and contacts for the 102nd and 108th keys but no layout actually used them until model M.