hey guys I finally made a part 2 to this video. I will link it here so you can check it out and see how this problem was resolved! czcams.com/video/7GqW7Nppanc/video.html
Sorry this happened to you! I would open it up and check for motors and electronics. Looks like it may be gutted of all the electronics. If you can get a hold of the show promotors and see if they have a map of vendor booths and go from there. Sad that there are so many shysters out there even in the hobby world. I hope some day you get a great diesel at a great price to sort of make up for this.
Yes, contacting the show promoters would be good. They would then be aware of the cheaters and word of mouth to other shows would be a step forward to bring them to task.
Any field of endevour or hobby variety is going to have it's share of shysters, trust me! Luckily they're in the minority but as always it's "Buyer beware!"
They used to in ho scale make what they called a dummy locomotive it had working headlights and all the other features of a powered locomotive but no motors to drive it this might be what you bought anyway it should have been marked as so good luck I hope you get some satisfaction out the seller there is a lot of dishonest people out nowadays it's a shame
That's crazy to hear and see! I live in Western Massachusetts and I go to the train show on The Big E fairgrounds in West Springfield Mass from time to time for the past 23 years , and I was just there at the end of January this year and I've never heard of anything like that happening to anybody at the train show over here.
They really ripped you off. These guys should be reported. You should find out who the organizers are and let them know. The 3 guys should be banned from all model train shows. Sorry that this happened to you.
Definitely call the show promoter. With their provided vendor info, file a police report. Also maybe you can round up the missing parts and get your loco back up to spec.
Sorry this happened to you Ray! I've been reading the comments and there's probably little I can add but I'll do so anyway, for what it's worth. Just so you know, I'm the president of the Virginia Train Collectors Association and we run several shows a year. At our shows we have test tracks so any purchasers can check out their new finds just to make sure they work. None of our exhibitors ever say no and many will go to the test track with you. If an exhibitor DOES say no the alarm bells should go off. Any show you go to SHOULD have a test track available. If not and there's clubs with display layouts there ask them if you can try your prospective purchase on it. Most are good guys and will try it for you but if not don't be insulted. As you've learned ALWAYS inspect what you're ready to buy, especially if it's used. If it's a honest dealer he'll tell you if there's something wrong or if the unit's not up to snuff in any way. The overwhelming majority of exhibitors will make sure their stuff WORKS before they put it out for sale. As far as credit card purchases are concerned the professional dealers should have the capability but remember the majority of exhibitors at shows are hobbyists and not in the business professionally, so it's always a good idea to bring cash. As far as that engine's concerned get the shell off and see what's "under the hood." If it's got motors all isn't lost. If you don't want to spend a lot of money to bring it to life you can get a drop-in conventional control board from Dallee Electronics (very reasonably priced) to get it running again. For sound, Williams by Bachmann makes diesel sound packages that are reasonably priced as well and an easy install. A complete smoke unit might be available from various sources but I'm not sure I'd bother with one. Modern well-maintained diesels don't smoke that much anyway. IF you remember who you bought the engine from certainly bring it to the show organizers attention, they don't like this kind of thing any more than you do, trust me on that! Let me know if I can pass anymore advice to you. And don't be turned off by what happened at the show, the overwheming majority of train shows are joyous occasions all of us love to visit!
Definitely not YOUR fault, they flat-out scammed you. Did you take it apart yet to see if the motor is even there? It sounds like at least one gearbox is there, because of the way the wheels were grabbing the track. As somebody else pointed out, you should talk to the show organizers to let them know that this happened, and if you can, tell them the location the vendor was at.
As a former vendor, I always had a test track for my customers. That helped make the sale and increased my customer base.One added bonus I gained friends I might not have had otherwise.
There’s a possibility these people might show up at York. Take the engine with you, but leave it in the car trunk or at least out of sight. If they are there, go back to your car and retrieve the engine, see if they’ll give you your money back. If not, then inform the show runners. If you know anyone that has any experience in buying at shows, see if you couldn’t go with them. You can learn a lot quickly from a trained eye. Good luck to you! BTW, it might be a good idea to leave that engine on your display case to remind you that it’s “Caveat Emptor”, buyer beware! Only if you can’t get your money back that is!
if they didn't take credit cards, they probably won't be at York, but good suggestion, Dan, to see if they'd give you the money back. They seem like they won't be there.
Yes it's Caveat emptor as is everywhere but generally in "our" community you expect better behavior than say an average Evilbay seller ( I'm a small seller, but you'd have to give me an Evil shot to wanna cheat someone) some of those guys are even good at staging a broken wheel set on a Milk car but , I got my money back via debit card!! So, I would advise walking away from cash only unless they give you a business card!!
@@ericdelgado3395 There have been some notorious characters on the show circuit, (different scale, however), once you know who they are, you avoid like the plague! Fortunately, they are gone for good.
They would probably say it was complete when they sold it and you did something to it. So maybe you could find a good one and use that one for a dummy.
We’ve all been there at some point. In the scheme of things, $250 is a lot but at least it wasn’t more. Like someone else mentioned, dummy units are usually about this much or more. Once you find another engine, you’ll have a double header 👍🏼
Really sorry to hear this happened to you man! I was scammed hard at a York show about 5 years ago now - thought I had hit the jackpot finding an MTH premier proto 2 climax in my preferred road name for $500. The guy even handed me the matching premier caboose for free after the transaction - Little did I know that the engine was a sitting time bomb. Brought it home to my layout and boom the tender exploded on me (literally). Old PS2 board and the owner never changed out the white battery. Plus he ran the CLIMAX way to fast in which I later found out the gears were worn down. Ended up investing way too much to get the engine fixed and operable again - even after a makeshift wheelset flip inside their truck to make the gearing move the correct way when the loco runs, even today the climax is still basically inoperable. I learned a huge lesson to inspect each and every loco when possible at a show when buying from any seller. Fresh BTO items that are NIB usually are ok, but older items that are rare and most likely used need thorough inspecting. If you are on the fence, and especially if the seller is not interested in providing contact information to follow up - Test the locomotive at a show if you can before buying. Or just pass it on and wait for a re0run of the same engine...
Sorry to hear that,a couple of things...most train shows have "test tracks" where you could have a locomotive tested to see if it runs or not,so if they refuse to test a used product before you purchase then cut ties and walk away,also you could look online for an authorized Lionel dealer near you and have it checked out and maybe order the missing part(s). another thing I do when I'm thinking of a purchase is to grab a business card from the seller.. good luck with your next purchase..👍
Hi brother, first off, I could feel your heart sink when you saw that there were no switches under the hatch. I hate the fact that you are new and got screwed like that. I have been a train guy my whole life and now I also buy/sell trains, hobbies and collectables. In dealing with the public I go out of my way to explain over and over again that my prices are low because I buy at auction and then resell the items the same way, "As is where is". On some items that are bigger ticket items I will fix/repair or at least test, but I always pass on all info to the buying public. Did these guys or was this item sold to you as new in the box and was the price close to what you expected to pay for a motorized unit with sounds, etc? Is it marked as such? I guess a lesson learned, but it really sucks. If I were you I would take it to the next show and see if you can't find those clowns. Give them a chance to explain and issue a refund, if it was a mistake they will do it instantly, if not, take it out of the box and go upside one of their heads with it :)
Sorry to see what happened to you. Most of the guys I buy from at shows are very honest. Don't let this sour you to future train shows. As some of the guys said, make sure you put it on a test track. Have fun at York. Most of the sellers there are TCA members.
Thank you for sharing your story. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully others can learn from your experience. Definitely YES, worse case put that beautiful engine on a shelf and enjoy it. Maybe someday you will have a yard or non used siding in would look good on!
Sorry that it happened to you and thank you for the warning. I would not have thought that this is possible in the model train world. Another idea you might can do with the diesel engine: Build it into the scenery of your layout. Either a scenery of a derailed train with maintenance crews around it or a scenery in a locomotive workshop, where wheels get replaced.
I share your pain, brother. I've got screwed over myself & I've been doing this since the 70's. The best advise is to see if the seller will let you test run it, or at least give you a business card. Next time, look them in the eye & ask if it does run OK, that will tell you a lot most of the time!
This sucks, I hope you're able to get the unit fixed! I've been duped before too, you're not alone! PS always have a 9V battery with you when you go to shows! 😉👍
There was a test track at the Allentown show in the back by where they were running train races. You can always go to the show in the Fall and look for those guys.
If your story is legit, contact show organizers, find out vendor contact information, give them one chance to come clean, it they don't file criminal charges.
I strongly suggest getting in touch with the show organizers and explain your situation. If you don't have the name of the vendor, they should be able to provide you with information based on their location on the floor. Every show has a floor plan of vendors and exhibitors.
The people on this thread are incredible, so helpful, so concerned. I was watching your video with my wife eavesdropping and she was very upset for you. When I started telling her the comments it made us both happy. No trolls, just good human concern. Thank you for sharing. All of you.
When was at as show in 93 (I am 43) I was about 13 and been in the n scale hobby since I was very young and knew my stuff. I was looking at some Kato locomotives. They were reasonably priced for the time (about 50/60 bucks) before I could pull the trigger on the SD-40s I was looking at, the vender ask me to look at a better deal he had. I walk over to his other table and see some Bachman and life like junk. I let him start his line of BS about how he would cut me a "deal on those, and it was better blah blah blah" I let him go on for a little bit and finnaly told him, he could have made a 120 sale for two Katos until he tried to scam me into buying a bunch of used junk for 100. He was stunned and I walked away and told my Dad and other club members (who were hosted the show) about that asshole. He was asked to leave.
I don't like it when sellers do that. As a seller myself I put out what I have and let the buyer get what he wants and ask any questions they have. No pressure or sales tactics. If the item is desirable and the price is right the buyer will come.
You knew your subject at age 13. I wonder sometimes on a technical issues how young I'd have to be to not suspect something was crazy nonsense for subjects I was interested in and I think probably younger than 6. I've almost always since that time suspected in wrong dealings something was wrong, but was being polite because when talking with most people they have a very limited understanding of what they are talking about. For people running train shows watching out for and protecting their patrons from such corrupting environments is an unpleasant, but necessary responsibility to take on. A train show should be a time for everybody to enjoy the spirit and imagination trains have created since being very young for all ages.
Great that you shared this so others can learn. I don't know that I would've been wary either -- I will now for sure. I'm sure you will find use for this as you grow into the hobby. Good luck.
Definitely contact the show organizers and let them know what happened. If you know the location of the booth as someone commented below, even better. If you can figure out who it was, then get their contact info from the show organizers and contact them directly. Ask for a full refund - -or else small claims court it is.
I would try to contact the sellers. Tell them about the unit and see if they will refund your money. 240 seems about market for a tmcc unit working. York is a TCA meet and all vendors are registered TCA members and required to abide by rules. Bottom line always ask and check to see if the item operates as it is supposed sed to.
That was pretty brazen because the organizers must have some contact information for you. The sellers had to make arrangements and pay for the tables. Giving them the benefit of the doubt is they may have accidentally put a dummy unit in the wrong box. I hope you get it straightened out. Thanks for the video. It serves as a lesson for everyone. I got scammed out of $500 10 years ago and I am still kicking myself!
I would think the organizers would not want guys like that at their show. Track em down through the organizer and see if you can get the money back. That’s the stuff that gives shows a bad name.
I go to this show every year in the spring and winter. I always make sure to ask the sellers if they have a business card in case I have any problems. This definitely could've helped you if you had one but if not you will have to figure something else out. Anyways, nice video none the less!
I don't know what to tell you that you don't already know, but just commenting to say I feel for you, and hope that this doesn't sour this new hobby for you. If you really like the loco and the motors there (and you can get it wired up temporarily to see if it runs), you may be able to install a TMCC upgrade kit designed for old conventional locos to get it in the realm of command control.
Ray, your model is a "Last years" K-Line club offering from K-Line trains., also Lionel did continue selling it after they bought K-Line. K-Line used their own version of TMCC, they were good runners most of the time. Details were above lionel standard for diesels models at the same time. Look at it this way, most dummy engine run for over $200. JP
This is criminal Who are the sellers Allentown has test tracks We all want good deals,but when buying engines,buy from reputable people Hennings Nicholas smith Train world Choochoo auction I am not a fan of buying engines at train shows I wanted a beautiful atlas engine.i took it to test track and it didn't work so deal off Be careful
You mentioned this was at the Allentown train show so I am guessing in New Jersey but I can recall a recent show there. Good of you to post this as a warning that there are dishonest people in every hobby.
@@OriginalBongoliath - Ok I did not know that there was an Allentown in PA but some years ago I was in Allentown NJ and it is very small and I was surprised that a train show could be there.
@@wlh227 Allentown Train Meet Associates( ATMA) shows are twice a year. First Frost in Fall, Spring Thaw is March. It is in Pa. I don't usually buy Locos at train shows. But if I find a bargain I'll do it.
Something similar happened to me but it was my own fault since I should have trusted my gut and tested it on a layout at the show first. It was a used HO scale Athearn Big Boy w/sound at around $300, got it home and it’s dead on the rails. Took it back to the show and tested it again, still dead. Talked to the vendor and of course he claimed he tested it out when he bought it. Since it was a local vendor, I advised caution to everyone at our train club who might come across this vendor and it hurt his sales big time to where he eventually quit a couple years later. So it does happen more than we’d like to admit and these people love to play stupid to distance themselves from the fraud they committed.
Sorry to hear it. It's easy to get excited at a train show. Especially when it seems like a good buy. There are others who have lost far more money from shady dealers or even preorders. It's still a beautiful loco as it is. Word of mouth helps others. This was a good lesson to past to others and much appreciated. Thank you.
Maybe you can retrofit it with the parts it needs… it may end up costing as much as you had originally expected… I would consider it a project train, to build on for the future…. And then I would get a baseball bat and go look for those guys.😂
Do you have a receipt? Even with cash you should have that as well as a return window. I would think these guys will be at the next show. I'd go to every show in the state until I could confront them and get my money back.
Just subscribed,,,i would have flames coming out my ears by now,,,,get a hold of the people who put on the show ,,,they would be able to tell you who they were and get your money back ,,,,me after i got my cash back i break their faces you just dont do that bullshit at a train show
That appears to be the K-line SD70 that Lionel branded after it purchased K-line - What is the Item Number? Besides the non-scale fuel tank, it's a nicer unit than the Lionel SD70. The bad part was that these had inferior electronics and most were gutted. I'll bet that those sellers were just sellers moving product and never bothered to check it. This is why most shows have a test track set up in the hall somewhere.
As a reminder, you do not want to run your trains on your carpet at all because you can get the carpet particles and other stuff sucked up in your loco. Give Mainline Hobby Supply, Inc in blue Ridge Summit Pennsylvania, they can help you out and all. I hope this will help you out.
Ray, someone knows who these scum bags are..and as other comments mentioned, get in touch with show promoters. Maybe they can be identified from security cameras...if they had a Big display and Big inventory, probably not the first time and you could possibly make it their last time by exposing them with your channel...good luck👍🏻
I'm in Australia and once bought an old HO locomotive from the USA that arrived without a motor, as soon as I contacted the seller he apologised explained that he was selling a number of locomotive for someone else and wasn't aware of the problem and gave a full refund
I am so sorry that this happened to dampen your excitement and take your money. I like some of the suggestions on how to use it on your layout anyway as a 2nd unit in a consist or at a siding or locomotive shops. I hope those jerks get caught. My club is having a show later this month (April) and your experience is making me paranoid, wondering if they'll show up here. I'll make sure the guys running the show know about your experience and somehow be on the lookout for them or set up and heavily advertise a FREE (people like that word!) test track for all scales and before purchase testing. If those guys make the rounds of shows eventually it's going to catch up with them, and there ain't no wrath like that of a scammed model railroader! I see bruising in their future!
I would also add that when you do reach out to the Allentown Folks let us know if you get a resolution. It's always good to pass on this information as well.
On the show website is both the floor plan and the vendor list. If you can remember the table location, you can get the vendor name they registered as.
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience at the show. Unfortunately I have found it to be common (for me) issue, especially when it is a first time experience where and I can get tunnel vision and fixated on something. I've done it as well, making a purchase in haste, only to get home and wonder "don't this look SOOOO much better at the show??". I have found that PERSONALLY for me, I will make the rounds at a show, taking mental note of what I like, and see what there is at the rest of the show. Sometimes you might find a few tables with the same item at wildly different prices. Some will be in better condition than others. It also helps curb those impulse buys where you drop your entire bankroll in the first few minutes to find you may have WAAAAY overpaid on something. ALSO, at train shows near MY location, there are often test tracks set up for varying scales so that you can ensure something works before purchase. If you are buying a locomotive, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask them to demo the unit for you to show you that it runs, has DCC if they mention it, and makes sound if that is noted. Funny enough, I learned this FROM one of the sellers at a show, who INSISTED that we take it to the test track to demo it. It was an NYC Hudson steam locomotive with DCC which I happened to really want to pull an impulse purchase of heavyweight pullman passenger cars. The vendor said he thought it ran well, and had DCC, he brought me over to the test track, tried to run it for me, but he couldn't get it to budge or make noise. He cut the price from $100 to $30 on the spot, which I gladly accepted, thinking I could tear it down, replace the motor and Decoder and be back in business. Getting it back home I found that the issue was that the plug between the loco and tender was loose, so the decoder in the tender wasn't getting track power, thus no power back to motor or speaker. Adjusted the connector and it worked, for a bit. I still need to replace that cable because one of the cables actually came out of the harness so it doesn't work again, but life lesson learned, ALWAYS trust BUT VERIFY. If it isn't as they described, make an offer of what you think it is worth in the condition it is in. i
You're doing much better than me, Ray. I'd be so completely miffed. As djstangerdude says, talk to the show promoters; they will have a seller's booth map and will know exactly who these guys are. Trust me that the show's promoters don't want any scammers or scheisters at their shows for exactly the reason that happened to you. Give them a call. I'm 100% confident that they'll tell you that they don't get involved with transactions etc. but I'm also 100% confident that they don't want their show reputation besmirched in this way. One other thing I'd watch for is that you don't ever want to let that engine out of sight after you have seen it run. The dude needs to run it, you say OK to the purchase, and immediately pack it in the box. You don't want to allow a cowboy to bait-and-switch you. You already are aware of the "cash only" tell. Good luck going forward.
Great video mate . I think this can happen to anyone a bit like buying your first car which happened to me many years ago when I purchased a absolute lemon and ended up scrapping it a week later but it was a big and useful lesson learnt .
I am sorry this had to happened at your first train show. Here is a tip. Most train shows have test track so ask if you can test the engine before you buy it to see if it even works. If there is no test track then don't get a engine at that show and save your money.
Been there, done that. I'm into n scale and I desperately needed a ATSF F7B for my n scale passenger train, so I rushed to buy one when I first saw one, with little attention to how it looked on the outside and how it ran. Once I bought it, the guy seemed to act weird and he kepy saying "thank you". The next thing I know, I take it back to the car and I notice that it has a broken axle (common to old bachmann n scale diesels)! I immediately go back to the guy and tell him that he sold me a broken train, and he was extremely reluctant to give me a refund. Eventually, he gave me a refund and was extremely mad. All I told him was to run the train for a while and see what happens, but he was having none of it. I felt I almost got scammed, but I made it out. From bow on, in my case and to all the train fans here, always take your items to a test track before purchasing it. If it runs, buy it! If not, take it back to the seller and thell them. There's always the chance that the seller isn't aware of the running conditions, and if thet knows what's wrong, then ither buyers afterwards won't inquire about it and risk buying broken trains.
Props for still posting. I was kind of pissed too as you found out. Did they tell you it was a functional engine? I’m Nscale but I’m sure dummies or non-functional units are sold for O-scale. Edit: so they did tell you it ran I hear.
After going to shows for years, you get an idea who the trustworthy players and who the scammers are. Scammers are everywhere, including the hobby you love. Double check everything, and adjust your offer based on what you know and what is unknown. Never assume anything is 100 percent. Why would it be sold as a second hand exhibition? Because someone had their fun and is done with it. The best stuff i found were from older dealers and hobbyists who are unloading wonderfully durable postwar lionel for reasonable prices and allow for testing of the bits and bobs before the transaction takes place. Verify before you buy, and regret nothing if you pass on a purchase. There’s plenty more out there to choose from.
Dude, that just stinks! I'm not really into trains - for some reason I click on model train stuff that pops up on my screen because I like the cool set-ups and the models are really amazing - but I know how it feels to get scammed on something. Especially something you were so darn excited about and that you had to go to so much trouble to obtain. I'm glad to see you're going to your next train show and haven't been put off entirely. It might've been tough but you definitely learned something and, if it's any condolence, people like that usually get what's coming to them.
You should bring the locomotive to York and see if the same sellers are there and if so, you should confront them and ask for a refund or if that doesn’t work, you can try going to the train stop to buy the parts required
When the price is too low, run away. A running locomotive would cost twice what you paid. The locomotive was a display model at some store and not made to run.
Ray, I’m so sorry this happened to you! But thanks so much for sharing this. Many people will learn from what happened to you, and be able to avoid it themselves. It’s happened to me, so I know how you feel. Thanks again for sharing!!
Is it (possibly) what is called a “dummy engine”…..one that you attach to the consist to make it look longer? I know these are sold by Lionel! I’d be interested in seeing the model number on the end of the box it came in!
New Sub - I just recently came across your channel. I was looking up prices to see if you actually got scammed once you said $250 because I used to work in a mom & pop hobby shop part time that sold a lot of Lionel and MTH 3 rail locomotives. Good news is, I really don't think you got scammed per say as a MTH SD70MAC dummy unit is roughly going for about $300. Bad news is, you bought a dummy unit and not a powered one even though they said it didn't work. I do not think Lionel makes dummy units but rather they make non powered meaning it still has lights, smoke, and sound but no motors but I could be wrong. Train shows, you have to be really careful but sometimes you can come out on the better end of the deal because the seller could be selling an estate from a modeler who passed away and the widow wants everything sold off. I model HO and I scored a switcher locomotive with sound when the seller thought it only had DCC because in HO, sound is very hard to get in switchers without putting it inside the cab where it's noticeable. If I did my due diligence on that one, I would of ended up paying more so it's a gamble either way. Good luck on getting another CSX locomotive to lash up with this one or if you choose to find a hobby shop to add the electronics in it to get it up and running. - Jason
Just me being me, I prefer cash only when going to shows like this, mainly cause you dont know who is holding that card reader, could be a skimming machine to lift card data. There are two sides to ever coin. That being said. If i were a seller at a train show, with locomotives, i would have a few test loops for people to test before they buy. To me, Cash is king, but it is honesty, that gets you into the kingdom. *Post Edit* Silver Lining - It's still a decent shelf model, and as you said, it could be a perminent reminder to always verify second hand models. As a collector > a runner, i always have use for locomotives that look good, that dont run.
One total plus. Everyone likes you now. We all feel with you! Way better than facing this kind of thing alone. In the end, having friends is way more important than money. Hell, I was thinking of sending you a couple hundred to fix the issue!
Same thing happened to me, when I was getting started. What I learned was there is always a test track somewhere at the show. I test everything and make sure I get a receipt or something to prove I brought from that vendor. I feel your pain.
Wow! What a scam. I'm so sorry you got caught with a gut free engine. At $240, it's priced like a dummy unit. That it was in a box that stated it was a TMCC was misrepresentation and those fellows ought to be followed up with the train show and police. A criminal complaint needs to be filed and followed through. If they did it to you, they'll do it again to somebody else.
Send it to Lionel because they have a good reputation to protect, if they are a halfway decent company they should give you a replacement engine as a goodwill gesture, even though it is not their fault, but you can bet that behind the scenes they will go after the scammers to make sure they never attend another trade show.
Man that's rough. I was out of the hobby for about 20 years and just got back in. I recently went to a Greenburg show in Edison NJ and bought an old N scale engine, but made sure to have the guys at the table test it before I purchased. Only piece of advice I can give is if you ever purchase an engine at any of these shows. Make sure the guys at the table allow you to test it. These types of shows usually have some booth where you can go to test any engines. If they say no, then just walk away. It's a shame cause that's a really nice looking CSX. Hopefully you can find a chassis for it.
This sucks big time. You have such a great attitude. Sometimes bad things happen in life, but you have to move on. Live and learn. The guys that sold you that engine should have been up front on what was included (or not included). Slime balls.
I set up a vendor table at a train show last month, I sold $4,000 worth of rolling stock and structures that I had bought at an estate sale, and I did not have a credit card reader. I had two people ask me if I had a credit card reader. The ATM at the show was broken!! I still made sales. It is VERY COMMON for vendors to NOT take credit cards. Buying the credit card reader is not the issue, it's the credit card company that is processing your sales. That's where the cost is. That's like saying an inkjet printer is cheap. Yeah it's cheap. The ink is what kills you. Contact the people that set up the show. They will give you contact information for the vendor. And yes, you got scammed. I have too!! Multiple times, mostly on kits that were missing parts.
Those 3 guys should be reported and then Banned from all Train Shows. People like them are bad for the hobby. Can you use it as a Dummy Engine? At worst it would look great being hooked up to a Running Engine.
This is a bummer. I'm sorry you got scammed. It was pricey, but it happens to everyone. Just take the lesson and run with it. Sometimes the excitement of seeing what looks like what we want gets to us. If they labeled, represented, or sold the engine as being functional, then contact the show promoters, and go from there. I would kindly explain to them that you have a public platform to tell the world about your experience at their show. No one wants bad publicity. Look into prices for dummy units, to see if you got beat hard. Turn it into a positive, as you said, a reminder. It's still a very beautiful locomotive, that many couldn't afford either way. I know I'll probably never be able to purchase one, even at the cheapest price.
That is legitimately the most heartbreaking thing I have ever seen! Did you ever get it apart to see how much was missing? Might know someone who has some spare parts if it needs them. Subbed to your channel to follow along..
Take it to your hobby store and have them look at it. You could have ask to run it on a test track. Do your research on your phone before you buy. Ask questions, talk to those around you, and if you are new, don't buy the most expensive thing.
A non-powered locomotive is called a dummy. Dummy and powered diesel locomotives have been part of this hobby for at least 60 years. I'm sorry you bought a dummy thinking it was a powered locomotive. I'm sure you will never make that mistake again.
Wow, those three guys are crooks. If you see them at York, call them out on it. I hope you got some kind of receipt. If they got you they have and will get others. Word of mouth is your best tool right now.
Welcome to buying things at train shows, this IS how it goes. Sometimes things are missing, sometimes there's lots of extras, everything isna pig in a poke and there is NO junk at a train show, just treasure that doesn't appeal to You!! The key is to see what's missing and to then make your offers accordingly and walk when it's too high and too firm. There's a chance someone took the unit to the test track and swiped the missing boards on the way back after testing. Or they bought a large estate, and the previous owner removed these boards. You have a $240 start towards acquiring the missing parts and learning how to rebuild, repower and rewire your locomotives. $240 isn't great, but it's not $500, 600 or 700. You may get to $500 by the time you gfinish, but the education you gain rebuilding this will be worth it. Unboxing and running is the very surface scratch of this hobby.
I'm part of NASME, out in Stockertown, PA. I'll ask around the club to see if anyone has any ideas, but you may be able to get the parts from Lionel, or find a commission engine you can part out at Trains and Lanes.
It happens, I was sold a set with the wrong power supply in it, which smoked the engine. I got a new power supply and a board from ERR and it’s all in the past now. Funny thing is it was a used set so I did check the engine on a layout at the show (show organizers had a table of tracks in ovals of all gauges for testing…). Worked great but when I got home and used the power supply in the set…. Smoke.
Sorry to hear that it happened to you. They should had even put something like a label saying non-runner. You mentioned York in April, funny enough I going to to a Model Rail Exhibition in York, England in April with a 2020 ticket, been waiting 3 years to attend this event 😂 Great video
I can tell you a quick story I was scammed out of $500 from a store a few decades ago and I talked to the manager and she wouldn’t refund my money I went back in and talk to the store owner she would not refund my money so I drove to say Vons bought some posterboard drew up some signs and went and stood out front of that store and had people coming up to us asking what the problem was and I turned around and left I don’t think we were out there 45 minutes when they decided to refund my money!Next time you see these guys at a train show stand right there with your protest sign and believe me they won’t have any customers they’ll give you back your money
Definitely get in contact with show promoters. I go there all the time . Everyone is normally good but you did experience different. Sorry that happened to you. Thanks for sharing, I will be on extra alert time I'm at that show.
I stopped responding to comments on this video bcuz it was too mucvh to keep up with but I am happy to say this issue has been resolved as of tonight FINALLY lol. So I will be making a video on this tomorrow I’m very excited to do so keep an eye out for that
That's a sad commentary on train shows today..... note in the comments how many others have been misrepresented, scammed or (and I love this one ) 'just made a mistake'.
Pretty sure that K-Line sold that model to K-Line club members when they were going out of business, but before they could make the orders, K-Line went out of business & was bought by Lionel, so Lionel decided to be a good company & constructed the models at a loss, because they were only sold at $100-$200 MSRP. These models are actually not very easy to find from what I have heard.
As others have suggested report the scammers to the show organizers also try the police. Clearly the sellers have committed fraud and I doubt if you are the first victim. If the organizers are unhelpful tell them you're informing the police. That can produce quite amazing help!
Bruh, wow! Never deal with “vendors” that don’t give a receipt or take cards. I have gotten taken in the past, never again. Some footwork, but you could track them down, fund a name and number, if nothing else name them on your channel for being scammers if they won’t refund. Good luck!
hey guys I finally made a part 2 to this video. I will link it here so you can check it out and see how this problem was resolved!
czcams.com/video/7GqW7Nppanc/video.html
Sorry this happened to you! I would open it up and check for motors and electronics. Looks like it may be gutted of all the electronics. If you can get a hold of the show promotors and see if they have a map of vendor booths and go from there. Sad that there are so many shysters out there even in the hobby world. I hope some day you get a great diesel at a great price to sort of make up for this.
Yes, contacting the show promoters would be good. They would then be aware of the cheaters and word of mouth to other shows would be a step forward to bring them to task.
Any field of endevour or hobby variety is going to have it's share of shysters, trust me! Luckily they're in the minority but as always it's "Buyer beware!"
Crooked dealers are rare because they make everyone else look bad. But of course it's always caveat emptor on used equipment.
What you have is an expensive box. Does the box actually match the serial number?
They used to in ho scale make what they called a dummy locomotive it had working headlights and all the other features of a powered locomotive but no motors to drive it this might be what you bought anyway it should have been marked as so good luck I hope you get some satisfaction out the seller there is a lot of dishonest people out nowadays it's a shame
You should report these guys to the show. How terrible!!
I agree, before they rip off others
That's crazy to hear and see! I live in Western Massachusetts and I go to the train show on The Big E fairgrounds in West Springfield Mass from time to time for the past 23 years , and I was just there at the end of January this year and I've never heard of anything like that happening to anybody at the train show over here.
They really ripped you off. These guys should be reported. You should find out who the organizers are and let them know. The 3 guys should be banned from all model train shows. Sorry that this happened to you.
Definitely call the show promoter. With their provided vendor info, file a police report. Also maybe you can round up the missing parts and get your loco back up to spec.
Most of the vendors are at every show go to the next one in fall if they are there so if they make good
Sorry this happened to you Ray! I've been reading the comments and there's probably little I can add but I'll do so anyway, for what it's worth.
Just so you know, I'm the president of the Virginia Train Collectors Association and we run several shows a year. At our shows we have test tracks so any purchasers can check out their new finds just to make sure they work. None of our exhibitors ever say no and many will go to the test track with you. If an exhibitor DOES say no the alarm bells should go off. Any show you go to SHOULD have a test track available. If not and there's clubs with display layouts there ask them if you can try your prospective purchase on it. Most are good guys and will try it for you but if not don't be insulted.
As you've learned ALWAYS inspect what you're ready to buy, especially if it's used.
If it's a honest dealer he'll tell you if there's something wrong or if the unit's not up to snuff in any way. The overwhelming majority of exhibitors will make sure their stuff WORKS before they put it out for sale.
As far as credit card purchases are concerned the professional dealers should have the capability but remember the majority of exhibitors at shows are hobbyists and not in the business professionally, so it's always a good idea to bring cash.
As far as that engine's concerned get the shell off and see what's "under the hood." If it's got motors all isn't lost. If you don't want to spend a lot of money to bring it to life you can get a drop-in conventional control board from Dallee Electronics (very reasonably priced) to get it running again. For sound, Williams by Bachmann makes diesel sound packages that are reasonably priced as well and an easy install. A complete smoke unit might be available from various sources but I'm not sure I'd bother with one. Modern well-maintained diesels don't smoke that much anyway.
IF you remember who you bought the engine from certainly bring it to the show organizers attention, they don't like this kind of thing any more than you do, trust me on that!
Let me know if I can pass anymore advice to you. And don't be turned off by what happened at the show, the overwheming majority of train shows are joyous occasions all of us love to visit!
At least it looks pretty.
Definitely not YOUR fault, they flat-out scammed you. Did you take it apart yet to see if the motor is even there? It sounds like at least one gearbox is there, because of the way the wheels were grabbing the track. As somebody else pointed out, you should talk to the show organizers to let them know that this happened, and if you can, tell them the location the vendor was at.
As a former vendor, I always had a test track for my customers. That helped make the sale and increased my customer base.One added bonus I gained friends I might not have had otherwise.
I am also a former vendor here in San Antonio. Always had a test track at the shows. Wouldn't sell anything that wouldn't run!
There’s a possibility these people might show up at York. Take the engine with you, but leave it in the car trunk or at least out of sight. If they are there, go back to your car and retrieve the engine, see if they’ll give you your money back. If not, then inform the show runners.
If you know anyone that has any experience in buying at shows, see if you couldn’t go with them. You can learn a lot quickly from a trained eye. Good luck to you!
BTW, it might be a good idea to leave that engine on your display case to remind you that it’s “Caveat Emptor”, buyer beware! Only if you can’t get your money back that is!
if they didn't take credit cards, they probably won't be at York, but good suggestion, Dan, to see if they'd give you the money back. They seem like they won't be there.
Yes it's Caveat emptor as is everywhere but generally in "our" community you expect better behavior than say an average Evilbay seller ( I'm a small seller, but you'd have to give me an Evil shot to wanna cheat someone) some of those guys are even good at staging a broken wheel set on a Milk car but , I got my money back via debit card!! So, I would advise walking away from cash only unless they give you a business card!!
@@ericdelgado3395
There have been some notorious characters on the show circuit, (different scale, however), once you know who they are, you avoid like the plague! Fortunately, they are gone for good.
And have a friend in the background film, maybe you can wear a wireless mic, then we will get a very interesting video here!
They would probably say it was complete when they sold it and you did something to it. So maybe you could find a good one and use that one for a dummy.
We’ve all been there at some point. In the scheme of things, $250 is a lot but at least it wasn’t more. Like someone else mentioned, dummy units are usually about this much or more. Once you find another engine, you’ll have a double header 👍🏼
That is a great point!
Was thinking the same thing meself the towards the end of the vid.
Really sorry to hear this happened to you man! I was scammed hard at a York show about 5 years ago now - thought I had hit the jackpot finding an MTH premier proto 2 climax in my preferred road name for $500. The guy even handed me the matching premier caboose for free after the transaction - Little did I know that the engine was a sitting time bomb. Brought it home to my layout and boom the tender exploded on me (literally). Old PS2 board and the owner never changed out the white battery. Plus he ran the CLIMAX way to fast in which I later found out the gears were worn down. Ended up investing way too much to get the engine fixed and operable again - even after a makeshift wheelset flip inside their truck to make the gearing move the correct way when the loco runs, even today the climax is still basically inoperable.
I learned a huge lesson to inspect each and every loco when possible at a show when buying from any seller. Fresh BTO items that are NIB usually are ok, but older items that are rare and most likely used need thorough inspecting. If you are on the fence, and especially if the seller is not interested in providing contact information to follow up - Test the locomotive at a show if you can before buying. Or just pass it on and wait for a re0run of the same engine...
That is crazy even my wife was like oh my god lol. Thanks for sharing I hope to see you at York this year !
Sorry to hear that,a couple of things...most train shows have "test tracks" where you could have a locomotive tested to see if it runs or not,so if they refuse to test a used product before you purchase then cut ties and walk away,also you could look online for an authorized Lionel dealer near you and have it checked out and maybe order the missing part(s). another thing I do when I'm thinking of a purchase is to grab a business card from the seller.. good luck with your next purchase..👍
Hi brother, first off, I could feel your heart sink when you saw that there were no switches under the hatch. I hate the fact that you are new and got screwed like that. I have been a train guy my whole life and now I also buy/sell trains, hobbies and collectables. In dealing with the public I go out of my way to explain over and over again that my prices are low because I buy at auction and then resell the items the same way, "As is where is".
On some items that are bigger ticket items I will fix/repair or at least test, but I always pass on all info to the buying public.
Did these guys or was this item sold to you as new in the box and was the price close to what you expected to pay for a motorized unit with sounds, etc?
Is it marked as such?
I guess a lesson learned, but it really sucks.
If I were you I would take it to the next show and see if you can't find those clowns. Give them a chance to explain and issue a refund, if it was a mistake they will do it instantly, if not, take it out of the box and go upside one of their heads with it :)
Sorry to see what happened to you. Most of the guys I buy from at shows are very honest. Don't let this sour you to future train shows. As some of the guys said, make sure you put it on a test track. Have fun at York. Most of the sellers there are TCA members.
“I think I may have been duped here” is my favorite phrase
Thank you for sharing your story. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully others can learn from your experience. Definitely YES, worse case put that beautiful engine on a shelf and enjoy it. Maybe someday you will have a yard or non used siding in would look good on!
Sorry that it happened to you and thank you for the warning. I would not have thought that this is possible in the model train world.
Another idea you might can do with the diesel engine: Build it into the scenery of your layout. Either a scenery of a derailed train with maintenance crews around it or a scenery in a locomotive workshop, where wheels get replaced.
I share your pain, brother. I've got screwed over myself & I've been doing this since the 70's. The best advise is to see if the seller will let you test run it, or at least give you a business card. Next time, look them in the eye & ask if it does run OK, that will tell you a lot most of the time!
This sucks, I hope you're able to get the unit fixed! I've been duped before too, you're not alone! PS always have a 9V battery with you when you go to shows! 😉👍
There was a test track at the Allentown show in the back by where they were running train races. You can always go to the show in the Fall and look for those guys.
If your story is legit, contact show organizers, find out vendor contact information, give them one chance to come clean, it they don't file criminal charges.
Don’t even give a chance to come clean.
I strongly suggest getting in touch with the show organizers and explain your situation. If you don't have the name of the vendor, they should be able to provide you with information based on their location on the floor. Every show has a floor plan of vendors and exhibitors.
The people on this thread are incredible, so helpful, so concerned. I was watching your video with my wife eavesdropping and she was very upset for you. When I started telling her the comments it made us both happy. No trolls, just good human concern. Thank you for sharing. All of you.
Couldn’t agree more thanks for the kind words
When was at as show in 93 (I am 43) I was about 13 and been in the n scale hobby since I was very young and knew my stuff. I was looking at some Kato locomotives. They were reasonably priced for the time (about 50/60 bucks) before I could pull the trigger on the SD-40s I was looking at, the vender ask me to look at a better deal he had. I walk over to his other table and see some Bachman and life like junk. I let him start his line of BS about how he would cut me a "deal on those, and it was better blah blah blah" I let him go on for a little bit and finnaly told him, he could have made a 120 sale for two Katos until he tried to scam me into buying a bunch of used junk for 100. He was stunned and I walked away and told my Dad and other club members (who were hosted the show) about that asshole. He was asked to leave.
I don't like it when sellers do that. As a seller myself I put out what I have and let the buyer get what he wants and ask any questions they have. No pressure or sales tactics. If the item is desirable and the price is right the buyer will come.
You knew your subject at age 13. I wonder sometimes on a technical issues how young I'd have to be to not suspect something was crazy nonsense for subjects I was interested in and I think probably younger than 6. I've almost always since that time suspected in wrong dealings something was wrong, but was being polite because when talking with most people they have a very limited understanding of what they are talking about. For people running train shows watching out for and protecting their patrons from such corrupting environments is an unpleasant, but necessary responsibility to take on. A train show should be a time for everybody to enjoy the spirit and imagination trains have created since being very young for all ages.
Great that you shared this so others can learn. I don't know that I would've been wary either -- I will now for sure. I'm sure you will find use for this as you grow into the hobby. Good luck.
Definitely contact the show organizers and let them know what happened. If you know the location of the booth as someone commented below, even better. If you can figure out who it was, then get their contact info from the show organizers and contact them directly. Ask for a full refund - -or else small claims court it is.
Name and shame them!
@@feraxks Agreed.
I would try to contact the sellers. Tell them about the unit and see if they will refund your money. 240 seems about market for a tmcc unit working. York is a TCA meet and all vendors are registered TCA members and required to abide by rules. Bottom line always ask and check to see if the item operates as it is supposed sed to.
That was pretty brazen because the organizers must have some contact information for you. The sellers had to make arrangements and pay for the tables. Giving them the benefit of the doubt is they may have accidentally put a dummy unit in the wrong box. I hope you get it straightened out. Thanks for the video. It serves as a lesson for everyone. I got scammed out of $500 10 years ago and I am still kicking myself!
I would think the organizers would not want guys like that at their show. Track em down through the organizer and see if you can get the money back. That’s the stuff that gives shows a bad name.
I go to this show every year in the spring and winter. I always make sure to ask the sellers if they have a business card in case I have any problems. This definitely could've helped you if you had one but if not you will have to figure something else out. Anyways, nice video none the less!
I’m sorry this happened to you. That is a real bummer. Hope the show is able to help you out some how.
I don't know what to tell you that you don't already know, but just commenting to say I feel for you, and hope that this doesn't sour this new hobby for you. If you really like the loco and the motors there (and you can get it wired up temporarily to see if it runs), you may be able to install a TMCC upgrade kit designed for old conventional locos to get it in the realm of command control.
Ray, your model is a "Last years" K-Line club offering from K-Line trains., also Lionel did continue selling it after they bought K-Line. K-Line used their own version of TMCC, they were good runners most of the time. Details were above lionel standard for diesels models at the same time. Look at it this way, most dummy engine run for over $200. JP
Came to say the same. "You got one good looking dummy unit" and "Don't throw good money after bad"
This is criminal
Who are the sellers
Allentown has test tracks
We all want good deals,but when buying engines,buy from reputable people
Hennings
Nicholas smith
Train world
Choochoo auction
I am not a fan of buying engines at train shows
I wanted a beautiful atlas engine.i took it to test track and it didn't work so deal off
Be careful
You mentioned this was at the Allentown train show so I am guessing in New Jersey but I can recall a recent show there. Good of you to post this as a warning that there are dishonest people in every hobby.
Allentown is in Pennsylvania.
@@OriginalBongoliath - Ok I did not know that there was an Allentown in PA but some years ago I was in Allentown NJ and it is very small and I was surprised that a train show could be there.
@@wlh227 Allentown Train Meet Associates( ATMA) shows are twice a year. First Frost in Fall, Spring Thaw is March. It is in Pa. I don't usually buy Locos at train shows. But if I find a bargain I'll do it.
Something similar happened to me but it was my own fault since I should have trusted my gut and tested it on a layout at the show first. It was a used HO scale Athearn Big Boy w/sound at around $300, got it home and it’s dead on the rails. Took it back to the show and tested it again, still dead. Talked to the vendor and of course he claimed he tested it out when he bought it. Since it was a local vendor, I advised caution to everyone at our train club who might come across this vendor and it hurt his sales big time to where he eventually quit a couple years later. So it does happen more than we’d like to admit and these people love to play stupid to distance themselves from the fraud they committed.
I am so sorry that happened! Didn’t know there were scammers at the show!
Scammers can be at ANY kind of show for collectibles of ANY kind, trust me!
Sorry to hear it. It's easy to get excited at a train show. Especially when it seems like a good buy. There are others who have lost far more money from shady dealers or even preorders. It's still a beautiful loco as it is. Word of mouth helps others. This was a good lesson to past to others and much appreciated. Thank you.
You should have filmed their table where they were selling. I would watch for them next time.
I am going to start doing this!
Check with Lionel. You should be able to get the missing pieces you need.
Maybe you can retrofit it with the parts it needs… it may end up costing as much as you had originally expected… I would consider it a project train, to build on for the future…. And then I would get a baseball bat and go look for those guys.😂
Do you have a receipt? Even with cash you should have that as well as a return window. I would think these guys will be at the next show. I'd go to every show in the state until I could confront them and get my money back.
Just subscribed,,,i would have flames coming out my ears by now,,,,get a hold of the people who put on the show ,,,they would be able to tell you who they were and get your money back ,,,,me after i got my cash back i break their faces you just dont do that bullshit at a train show
I'm so sorry this happened. It really is a shame that people are not trustworthy anymore. Hopefully this will all work out for you.
Oh Man I feel so bad for you! My heart sank when you opened it up. I know how you feel! I would report them to the train show for sure.
If the train show does not have a test layout, so you can run items before you leave. Then DON’T BUY ANYTHING.
That appears to be the K-line SD70 that Lionel branded after it purchased K-line - What is the Item Number? Besides the non-scale fuel tank, it's a nicer unit than the Lionel SD70. The bad part was that these had inferior electronics and most were gutted. I'll bet that those sellers were just sellers moving product and never bothered to check it. This is why most shows have a test track set up in the hall somewhere.
I just searched this item on the internet and it is a K-Line By Lionel model.
As a reminder, you do not want to run your trains on your carpet at all because you can get the carpet particles and other stuff sucked up in your loco. Give Mainline Hobby Supply, Inc in blue Ridge Summit Pennsylvania, they can help you out and all. I hope this will help you out.
Isn’t Allentown a tca show I’d email the tca maybe they can find who these 3 are and ban them from shows this is said ppl do things like that
Ray, someone knows who these scum bags are..and as other comments mentioned, get in touch with show promoters. Maybe they can be identified from security cameras...if they had a Big display and Big inventory, probably not the first time and you could possibly make it their last time by exposing them with your channel...good luck👍🏻
I'm in Australia and once bought an old HO locomotive from the USA that arrived without a motor, as soon as I contacted the seller he apologised explained that he was selling a number of locomotive for someone else and wasn't aware of the problem and gave a full refund
I am so sorry that this happened to dampen your excitement and take your money. I like some of the suggestions on how to use it on your layout anyway as a 2nd unit in a consist or at a siding or locomotive shops. I hope those jerks get caught. My club is having a show later this month (April) and your experience is making me paranoid, wondering if they'll show up here. I'll make sure the guys running the show know about your experience and somehow be on the lookout for them or set up and heavily advertise a FREE (people like that word!) test track for all scales and before purchase testing. If those guys make the rounds of shows eventually it's going to catch up with them, and there ain't no wrath like that of a scammed model railroader! I see bruising in their future!
If you only paid 240 be happy. It’s a good dummy locomotive. Lionel wants 500 for dummy locomotives
At 1:24 that’s my booth!
I would also add that when you do reach out to the Allentown Folks let us know if you get a resolution. It's always good to pass on this information as well.
On the show website is both the floor plan and the vendor list. If you can remember the table location, you can get the vendor name they registered as.
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience at the show. Unfortunately I have found it to be common (for me) issue, especially when it is a first time experience where and I can get tunnel vision and fixated on something. I've done it as well, making a purchase in haste, only to get home and wonder "don't this look SOOOO much better at the show??". I have found that PERSONALLY for me, I will make the rounds at a show, taking mental note of what I like, and see what there is at the rest of the show. Sometimes you might find a few tables with the same item at wildly different prices. Some will be in better condition than others. It also helps curb those impulse buys where you drop your entire bankroll in the first few minutes to find you may have WAAAAY overpaid on something.
ALSO, at train shows near MY location, there are often test tracks set up for varying scales so that you can ensure something works before purchase. If you are buying a locomotive, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask them to demo the unit for you to show you that it runs, has DCC if they mention it, and makes sound if that is noted. Funny enough, I learned this FROM one of the sellers at a show, who INSISTED that we take it to the test track to demo it. It was an NYC Hudson steam locomotive with DCC which I happened to really want to pull an impulse purchase of heavyweight pullman passenger cars. The vendor said he thought it ran well, and had DCC, he brought me over to the test track, tried to run it for me, but he couldn't get it to budge or make noise. He cut the price from $100 to $30 on the spot, which I gladly accepted, thinking I could tear it down, replace the motor and Decoder and be back in business. Getting it back home I found that the issue was that the plug between the loco and tender was loose, so the decoder in the tender wasn't getting track power, thus no power back to motor or speaker. Adjusted the connector and it worked, for a bit. I still need to replace that cable because one of the cables actually came out of the harness so it doesn't work again, but life lesson learned, ALWAYS trust BUT VERIFY. If it isn't as they described, make an offer of what you think it is worth in the condition it is in. i
Thank you for sharing I have definitely been more careful a year later lol
Thanks for posting and getting the word out to others especially those new to the hobby. I hope you can track these guys down for a refund, good luck.
You're doing much better than me, Ray. I'd be so completely miffed. As djstangerdude says, talk to the show promoters; they will have a seller's booth map and will know exactly who these guys are. Trust me that the show's promoters don't want any scammers or scheisters at their shows for exactly the reason that happened to you. Give them a call. I'm 100% confident that they'll tell you that they don't get involved with transactions etc. but I'm also 100% confident that they don't want their show reputation besmirched in this way.
One other thing I'd watch for is that you don't ever want to let that engine out of sight after you have seen it run. The dude needs to run it, you say OK to the purchase, and immediately pack it in the box. You don't want to allow a cowboy to bait-and-switch you. You already are aware of the "cash only" tell.
Good luck going forward.
Great video mate . I think this can happen to anyone a bit like buying your first car which happened to me many years ago when I purchased a absolute lemon and ended up scrapping it a week later but it was a big and useful lesson learnt .
Im so sorry sir. People like those 3 that rip people off give new guys like yourself a bad taste in our awesome hobby. God remembers those kind.
thank you for the kind words dont worry i havent let this discourage me im still loving the hobby so far!
I am sorry this had to happened at your first train show. Here is a tip. Most train shows have test track so ask if you can test the engine before you buy it to see if it even works. If there is no test track then don't get a engine at that show and save your money.
Been there, done that. I'm into n scale and I desperately needed a ATSF F7B for my n scale passenger train, so I rushed to buy one when I first saw one, with little attention to how it looked on the outside and how it ran. Once I bought it, the guy seemed to act weird and he kepy saying "thank you". The next thing I know, I take it back to the car and I notice that it has a broken axle (common to old bachmann n scale diesels)! I immediately go back to the guy and tell him that he sold me a broken train, and he was extremely reluctant to give me a refund. Eventually, he gave me a refund and was extremely mad. All I told him was to run the train for a while and see what happens, but he was having none of it. I felt I almost got scammed, but I made it out. From bow on, in my case and to all the train fans here, always take your items to a test track before purchasing it. If it runs, buy it! If not, take it back to the seller and thell them. There's always the chance that the seller isn't aware of the running conditions, and if thet knows what's wrong, then ither buyers afterwards won't inquire about it and risk buying broken trains.
Props for still posting. I was kind of pissed too as you found out. Did they tell you it was a functional engine? I’m Nscale but I’m sure dummies or non-functional units are sold for O-scale. Edit: so they did tell you it ran I hear.
After going to shows for years, you get an idea who the trustworthy players and who the scammers are. Scammers are everywhere, including the hobby you love. Double check everything, and adjust your offer based on what you know and what is unknown. Never assume anything is 100 percent. Why would it be sold as a second hand exhibition? Because someone had their fun and is done with it. The best stuff i found were from older dealers and hobbyists who are unloading wonderfully durable postwar lionel for reasonable prices and allow for testing of the bits and bobs before the transaction takes place. Verify before you buy, and regret nothing if you pass on a purchase. There’s plenty more out there to choose from.
Dude, that just stinks! I'm not really into trains - for some reason I click on model train stuff that pops up on my screen because I like the cool set-ups and the models are really amazing - but I know how it feels to get scammed on something. Especially something you were so darn excited about and that you had to go to so much trouble to obtain. I'm glad to see you're going to your next train show and haven't been put off entirely. It might've been tough but you definitely learned something and, if it's any condolence, people like that usually get what's coming to them.
You should bring the locomotive to York and see if the same sellers are there and if so, you should confront them and ask for a refund or if that doesn’t work, you can try going to the train stop to buy the parts required
When the price is too low, run away. A running locomotive would cost twice what you paid. The locomotive was a display model at some store and not made to run.
Ray, I’m so sorry this happened to you! But thanks so much for sharing this. Many people will learn from what happened to you, and be able to avoid it themselves. It’s happened to me, so I know how you feel. Thanks again for sharing!!
Is it (possibly) what is called a “dummy engine”…..one that you attach to the consist to make it look longer? I know these are sold by Lionel! I’d be interested in seeing the model number on the end of the box it came in!
New Sub - I just recently came across your channel. I was looking up prices to see if you actually got scammed once you said $250 because I used to work in a mom & pop hobby shop part time that sold a lot of Lionel and MTH 3 rail locomotives. Good news is, I really don't think you got scammed per say as a MTH SD70MAC dummy unit is roughly going for about $300. Bad news is, you bought a dummy unit and not a powered one even though they said it didn't work. I do not think Lionel makes dummy units but rather they make non powered meaning it still has lights, smoke, and sound but no motors but I could be wrong. Train shows, you have to be really careful but sometimes you can come out on the better end of the deal because the seller could be selling an estate from a modeler who passed away and the widow wants everything sold off. I model HO and I scored a switcher locomotive with sound when the seller thought it only had DCC because in HO, sound is very hard to get in switchers without putting it inside the cab where it's noticeable. If I did my due diligence on that one, I would of ended up paying more so it's a gamble either way. Good luck on getting another CSX locomotive to lash up with this one or if you choose to find a hobby shop to add the electronics in it to get it up and running. - Jason
It's not you the victim's fault, it's the fault of the three criminals who defrauded you.
Just me being me, I prefer cash only when going to shows like this, mainly cause you dont know who is holding that card reader, could be a skimming machine to lift card data. There are two sides to ever coin.
That being said. If i were a seller at a train show, with locomotives, i would have a few test loops for people to test before they buy.
To me, Cash is king, but it is honesty, that gets you into the kingdom.
*Post Edit* Silver Lining - It's still a decent shelf model, and as you said, it could be a perminent reminder to always verify second hand models. As a collector > a runner, i always have use for locomotives that look good, that dont run.
One total plus. Everyone likes you now. We all feel with you! Way better than facing this kind of thing alone. In the end, having friends is way more important than money. Hell, I was thinking of sending you a couple hundred to fix the issue!
I appreciate you Marshall
Same thing happened to me, when I was getting started. What I learned was there is always a test track somewhere at the show. I test everything and make sure I get a receipt or something to prove I brought from that vendor. I feel your pain.
Wow! What a scam. I'm so sorry you got caught with a gut free engine. At $240, it's priced like a dummy unit. That it was in a box that stated it was a TMCC was misrepresentation and those fellows ought to be followed up with the train show and police. A criminal complaint needs to be filed and followed through. If they did it to you, they'll do it again to somebody else.
Number one reason I refuse to buy trains at shows, finding the vendor after a problem arises unless its a local or regional shop.
Send it to Lionel because they have a good reputation to protect, if they are a halfway decent company they should give you a replacement engine as a goodwill gesture, even though it is not their fault, but you can bet that behind the scenes they will go after the scammers to make sure they never attend another trade show.
Man that's rough. I was out of the hobby for about 20 years and just got back in. I recently went to a Greenburg show in Edison NJ and bought an old N scale engine, but made sure to have the guys at the table test it before I purchased. Only piece of advice I can give is if you ever purchase an engine at any of these shows. Make sure the guys at the table allow you to test it. These types of shows usually have some booth where you can go to test any engines. If they say no, then just walk away. It's a shame cause that's a really nice looking CSX. Hopefully you can find a chassis for it.
The train show footage made me homesick for the Great Midwest Train Show in Wheaton, Illinois.
This sucks big time. You have such a great attitude. Sometimes bad things happen in life, but you have to move on. Live and learn. The guys that sold you that engine should have been up front on what was included (or not included). Slime balls.
I set up a vendor table at a train show last month, I sold $4,000 worth of rolling stock and structures that I had bought at an estate sale, and I did not have a credit card reader. I had two people ask me if I had a credit card reader. The ATM at the show was broken!! I still made sales. It is VERY COMMON for vendors to NOT take credit cards.
Buying the credit card reader is not the issue, it's the credit card company that is processing your sales. That's where the cost is. That's like saying an inkjet printer is cheap. Yeah it's cheap. The ink is what kills you.
Contact the people that set up the show. They will give you contact information for the vendor.
And yes, you got scammed. I have too!! Multiple times, mostly on kits that were missing parts.
Those 3 guys should be reported and then Banned from all Train Shows. People like them are bad for the hobby. Can you use it as a Dummy Engine? At worst it would look great being hooked up to a Running Engine.
This is a bummer. I'm sorry you got scammed. It was pricey, but it happens to everyone. Just take the lesson and run with it. Sometimes the excitement of seeing what looks like what we want gets to us. If they labeled, represented, or sold the engine as being functional, then contact the show promoters, and go from there. I would kindly explain to them that you have a public platform to tell the world about your experience at their show. No one wants bad publicity. Look into prices for dummy units, to see if you got beat hard. Turn it into a positive, as you said, a reminder. It's still a very beautiful locomotive, that many couldn't afford either way. I know I'll probably never be able to purchase one, even at the cheapest price.
That is legitimately the most heartbreaking thing I have ever seen! Did you ever get it apart to see how much was missing? Might know someone who has some spare parts if it needs them. Subbed to your channel to follow along..
Take it to your hobby store and have them look at it. You could have ask to run it on a test track. Do your research on your phone before you buy. Ask questions, talk to those around you, and if you are new, don't buy the most expensive thing.
Never a brick convert it to a dummy for other engines or for using as a distributed power uint dpu
A non-powered locomotive is called a dummy. Dummy and powered diesel locomotives have been part of this hobby for at least 60 years. I'm sorry you bought a dummy thinking it was a powered locomotive. I'm sure you will never make that mistake again.
You should contact the show and let them know what happened. I’m sure they could figure out who scammed you.
Good luck,
Buddy
Wow, those three guys are crooks. If you see them at York, call them out on it. I hope you got some kind of receipt.
If they got you they have and will get others.
Word of mouth is your best tool right now.
Welcome to buying things at train shows, this IS how it goes. Sometimes things are missing, sometimes there's lots of extras, everything isna pig in a poke and there is NO junk at a train show, just treasure that doesn't appeal to You!! The key is to see what's missing and to then make your offers accordingly and walk when it's too high and too firm.
There's a chance someone took the unit to the test track and swiped the missing boards on the way back after testing. Or they bought a large estate, and the previous owner removed these boards.
You have a $240 start towards acquiring the missing parts and learning how to rebuild, repower and rewire your locomotives. $240 isn't great, but it's not $500, 600 or 700. You may get to $500 by the time you gfinish, but the education you gain rebuilding this will be worth it.
Unboxing and running is the very surface scratch of this hobby.
I'm part of NASME, out in Stockertown, PA. I'll ask around the club to see if anyone has any ideas, but you may be able to get the parts from Lionel, or find a commission engine you can part out at Trains and Lanes.
It happens, I was sold a set with the wrong power supply in it, which smoked the engine. I got a new power supply and a board from ERR and it’s all in the past now. Funny thing is it was a used set so I did check the engine on a layout at the show (show organizers had a table of tracks in ovals of all gauges for testing…). Worked great but when I got home and used the power supply in the set…. Smoke.
For a guy to come on here and say he made a huge mistake so you dont have to. I hope you get it sorted. I'm not even a train guy and you helped me!
Sorry to hear that it happened to you. They should had even put something like a label saying non-runner. You mentioned York in April, funny enough I going to to a Model Rail Exhibition in York, England in April with a 2020 ticket, been waiting 3 years to attend this event 😂 Great video
I can tell you a quick story I was scammed out of $500 from a store a few decades ago and I talked to the manager and she wouldn’t refund my money I went back in and talk to the store owner she would not refund my money so I drove to say Vons bought some posterboard drew up some signs and went and stood out front of that store and had people coming up to us asking what the problem was and I turned around and left I don’t think we were out there 45 minutes when they decided to refund my money!Next time you see these guys at a train show stand right there with your protest sign and believe me they won’t have any customers they’ll give you back your money
Was the train a "dummy" locomotive? Was it meant to connect to a powered locomotive in a two unit setup?
Very sorry to hear. Maybe make make it a non-powered. Add soundcard, aftermarket smokeunit. Stay positive!
Definitely get in contact with show promoters. I go there all the time . Everyone is normally good but you did experience different. Sorry that happened to you. Thanks for sharing, I will be on extra alert time I'm at that show.
I stopped responding to comments on this video bcuz it was too mucvh to keep up with but I am happy to say this issue has been resolved as of tonight FINALLY lol. So I will be making a video on this tomorrow I’m very excited to do so keep an eye out for that
@@RaysTrains I'm glad. I will keep an eye out for the video. 👍
So sorry dude! And your 1st show...bogus!! Definitely need to report to police and show producers...get these bastards banned! Good luck!
That's a sad commentary on train shows today..... note in the comments how many others have been misrepresented, scammed or (and I love this one ) 'just made a mistake'.
The damage is done, now look up the parts sheet for it ,and see what's missing and replace.
try to look on the bright side. You now have a reason to attend every train show within driving distance to look for these guy.
Pretty sure that K-Line sold that model to K-Line club members when they were going out of business, but before they could make the orders, K-Line went out of business & was bought by Lionel, so Lionel decided to be a good company & constructed the models at a loss, because they were only sold at $100-$200 MSRP. These models are actually not very easy to find from what I have heard.
As others have suggested report the scammers to the show organizers also try the police. Clearly the sellers have committed fraud and I doubt if you are the first victim. If the organizers are unhelpful tell them you're informing the police. That can produce quite amazing help!
Bruh, wow! Never deal with “vendors” that don’t give a receipt or take cards. I have gotten taken in the past, never again. Some footwork, but you could track them down, fund a name and number, if nothing else name them on your channel for being scammers if they won’t refund. Good luck!