Season 11 is up next, but wanted to take this little detour first. Lisa and Martin are two characters who show up in many of the same kinds of places, but rarely have anything to do with each other. It's this weird character relationship void that I'm surprised the series hasn't really addressed in 32 seasons of stories.
Can't wait for the video! I have to say, Sunday Cruddy Sunday was one of those episodes that I had never felt the need to rewatch, but your input on it brought to surface some nice aspects about it. It does some good jokes, and speaking of weird character pairings, I've even forgotten the moment where Lovejoy towel whips Homer while he's on the phone with Clinton. But, you know, make sure Behind the Laughter is number one. (Just kidding. It's a very mediocre season overall, so that particular episode really stands out. That and the tomacco one).
I think we learned from Lisa's Rival that Lisa doesn't really want to be friends with people who are as smart as she is. She wants to be around smart people, but she needs to be the smartest in the room in order to not feel jealous.
She doesn't like when other kids are as smart as her. When the smartest person is an adult or someone she looks up to, she is just happy to be included and feels validated by the attention.
Also, I wouldn't say it's because she gets jealous. She is insecure about her looks, social skills and "coolness" so she defines herself as being the smart-more mature one. The crisis is similar to when Bart is a drummer or Maggie is a genius, but no when she meets Julie or Colin who are as talented as her but no adult makes a comparison between the two.
@@driveasandwich6734 I've always wondered, what if to combat the show being stale now, they went "fuck it. Advance time" and each year we'd see the characters get a little older, Would certainly give them more material but no way they'd ever do it for obvious reasons
That two different type of nerds hating each other comment rings so true, that for awhile didn't want to believe it, but seeing film nerds, literature nerds, game nerds, anime nerds, and comic nerds all hate on each other on a daily basis makes this pairing so incompatible very realistic.
@@WobblesandBean I hate civilization 5. I think it is dumbed down in comparison to civilization 4. It disappointed me. So I hear companies talk about wanting to reach a wider audience and it kind of makes my skin crawl. I like complexity and that doesn't sell to general audiences.
Theres a pitfall with a Martin/Lisa pairing. If they were established as good friends it'd tell against Lisa's isolation and loneliness, but neither of them is the sort to actively dislike the hr other.
Honestly I think the whole "Lisa is the most unpopular person in the school" angle is dated and played out, just have her hang out with Martin and Allison and maybe develop Sherry and Terry more as her bitchy fake friends. I wouldn't mind if they finally gave Janey/Jaime an established personality either.
@@garthst.claire3459 Yeah I really wish the writers would actually use the other background kids they've had on the show for years instead of introducing a new one off kids who are forgotten about and never seen again past their episode.
@@phineas81707 Yeah, she was not used that much and I don't remember any episode where Janey and Lisa hang out despite Janey was suppose to be Lisa's "friend".
Martin is a square, he loves authority. Lisa is portrayed as a rebel and a free spirit. This is ultimately the reason for their distance: their battles, their circles, their whole focus is different. It dawned on me when you mentioned the Pre-teen Braves and the Cavalry Kids: neither of them would fit in the other group, at all.
I remember when it was revealed that Martin was the only student to voluntarily allow the school to implant a tracking chip in his skull. My first thought was along the lines of "Lisa would obviously never go along with that. Maybe that's why they're not close."
I don’t think Lisa is that much of a rebel or a free spirit She can be very square as well, she absolutely loves school and is obsessed with getting perfect grades However moments like her new speech in mrs Lisa goes to Washington shows that she does have a lil rebellious streak
No Lisa is a midwit with a large vocabulary and good rote memorization. In the relevant seasons of the simpsons I can’t recall her doing anything STEM related besides her hamster/Bart experiment. Martin is a multitude smarter by his coding and built projects.
@@buckfastbjork6968 no no you misunderstand the dynamic here Lisa is the kind of character who goes along with authority provided said authority lines up with what she thinks is correct, but fight against it when its exemplifies something that she thinks is wrong. Martion would go with the authority either way most likely Shes not a rebel without a cause, she won't rebel for the sake of it, shes not bart, but when she thinks her cause is just she goes all out
It kinda makes sense, Lisa is a humanities geek whilst Martin is a STEM nerd. More often than not those types fall on completely different social groups and are usually politically opposed. They both dabble in each other's specialities but are really two sides of the same coin.
Something I love about this series is it makes me ask questions I'd never think of. Like here, I never thought about the odd vacuum that is Lisa and Martin's relationship, but it is weird.
I've always thought about this since the early years. It's almost like the show tried to consiously ignore the fact that they had created two similar eggheads, so every time an egghead was required, they had to just just pick the one they considered most appropriate to story that week!
Lisa isn't similar to Martin. Lisa is more egotistical. She is like an adult in a kid's body. Martin seems more like an actual kid. For example, he was fighting with Bart and Milhouse over the comic book.
Lisa & Martin working together to build something they couldn't on their own, and then have an all-out war over who gets top billing. There, that's a plot that writes itself
@@Sassssky there’s some good stuff in it for sure, it’s just that he hasn’t exactly been shy about his distaste for a LOT of the episodes in this season
I am again humbly suggesting, anything covering Millhouse's dog. It is an almost contant prescense in the show but sometimes it is a real dog and sometimes a plushie of a dog. What is it really?
And i think sometimes the dog changed its race... i can't remember but i think it was something like a yorkshire and then in another it was a chihuahua
@@GarkKahn Dogs don't have races lmao, it's breeds. And true, in that dog takeover town episode there was a chihuawa so they might have got another dog
It recently caught my attention that Homer and reverend Lovejoy are not friends, despite the fact that both of them hate Ned Flanders, and it seems that each of them have their own reasons to hate him
This is true, but Milhouse and Nelson are also two grades ahead of Lisa and still have plenty of stories with her. I think it might have more to do with the de-emphasizing of Martin's appearances as the series progresses than anything.
While Milhouse and Nelson have interactions with her, Milhouse is Bart's best friend, Nelson is Bart's bully (and picking on younger kids is still easy) or friend, and both of them have the romance angle. Martin on the other hand isn't that close to Bart, and is about as straight and masculine as I am, so there's not as much reason to interact.
You know, just an aside, but I never got the impression there was a joke about Martin being gay until the past few years when I heard people talk about it. I always saw him as a dork. A guy that liked what he liked and was either blind to/or didnt care, how he was viewed by others. A lot of people bring up the "Queen of Summer" as evidence, but I always saw that as him being overjoyed at taking Lisa's role as the top dog in kids summertime aquatic popularity, that he didn't even think about the wording he was using. Just that he was taking Lisa's title.
I always saw him as essentially asexual. He just doesn't really do other people at all, he lives in his own world. And that includes not being capable of sexual/romantic interest in others.
I think they really nailed the vibe of “top students in elementary” where there’s this sort of low-key hostility that’s a lot stronger when it comes to the school staff’s “number two”, but, because stories are told with Lisa as the main character of the duo, that gets relegated to moments like the static ball and it’s not like “homer looking at ned flanders”.
Well speaking of which, I always found that Aoyama from My Hero Academia has a certain physical resemblance to Martyn, and also a psychological one when it came to competing with others
They are also from a different social class. Mr. Prince, Martin's father, takes him to the trading floor of a stock exchange in Bart on the Road. Lisa is shown having a problematic relationship with her working class heritage at times. Martin's last name is Prince and I assume that is no accident.
That's a good point I hadn't considered. Actually kinda surprised the Princes didn't send Martin to a private school or whatever. Maybe they have gambling debts or something
Something like TheRealJims could maybe do is more Simpsons Comics related material, that was a fresh new take on the Simpsons Canon that I was unaware of I also always borrowed Simpsons Comic Books from the public library when I was younger and want to feel brushing up on that Simpsons Lore wasn't a complete and total waste of a childhood.
Am i the only one that really likes the idea that their are two gangs of nerds in Springfield elementary. Maybe one is STEM oriented and the other being humanities leaning?
Sounds fun, the town just thinks theyre a big group of nerds, and often they have to do activities together, but they hate eachother so much. Academic superiority complex and later understanding how disciplines overlap
haha that what as always where I saw a difference between Martin and Lisa when I used to watch the show. Lisa is good at STEM, but her true passions seem to be things like literature, philosophy, politics, the arts, etc. Martin, on other hand, sure likes poetry and stuff as well, but his main interest seems to lie in math- and engineering-related fields
I would love to see a Simpsons Histories on Martin. Back when the show was new and it was based around Bart-Mania, Martin was Bart's rival and antithesis. The guy had some fairly big screen time and relation stuff with Bart in Bart The Genius and Bart Gets An F. As Jim would put it, it was the Golden Age of Martin. Then came season 3 when Bart Mania died and Homer-is-the-main-character Mania took over. Around the time Bart's group of friends was reduced to only Milhouse and characters like Dr. Pryor and Herman were losing relevance fast, Lisa started taking over the role of the precocious, smart child who could go toe to toe with Bart away from Martin. Martin's role was changed from the smart kid to the effeminate kid. I know he's not forgotten like Herman or the Winfields, but I do think Martin is one of those season 1 characters who lost importance as the show discovered itself.
Herman being in plenty of stories like the counterfit jean opereating in Simpsons connections and the Plup fiction parody in 22 short films about Springfield they key herman sttoriesIgive you Dr Pryo since his only other appearence his Lisa's sax
I think the same, I recently saw Bart the Genius and really liked Martin as a character compared to his modern portrayal. There really was a dip in confidence for him.
A question I didn't know I had, but now have a insatiable desire to be answered... Personally, I think of them as friendly rival acquaintances. They can get on, but don't know each other, and a sense of competitiveness would override friendships in a one-on-one scenario. ETA: Also, I'd love to see you dive into the Simpsons comics more. I don't think it's a ground many people tread but from what I've heard they can be actually pretty solid stories.
Another core difference I notice between them is that Martin is interested in investments and capital like his father, while Lisa tends to represent more liberal ideals - supporting a workers' strike, fighting for feminist ideals in a Malibu Stacey alternative, convincing the town and Mr Burns to take up recycling, etc. So while they are both intellectuals, I think their fundamental ideologies are actually opposed, which could lead to some decent interactions if it weren't for politics being so depressing these days.
You should do a similar video about Bart and Maggie's relationship since it's so rarely even addressed. There's only been a handful of times in the whole series where they've interacted I think. I know a few years ago there was that B-plot where they just hung out causing trouble at the hairdressers etc, but before that the only moment I can think of was when they were playing monopoly together
I feel like it would happen if the characters actually aged. An older Maggie would probably be sort of rebellious like Bart, and an older Bart would probably mellow out a bit, so that's kind of a cool dynamic they could explore. Maybe she finds his old skateboard or something. :P
I don't think it's the lack of a character foil, there are similar dynamics with two smart characters with different viewpoints in TV sitcoms that show it can be done and done very well, the golden example being Frasier and Niles who wrote the book on how you do this kind of storyline, so much so that they got Simpsons spin-off characters made in their likeness for it
Great idea for a video. You don’t really think about the pairings you rarely see. I always had the same feeling about the status of Nelson in relation to the bully trio. He seems to oscillate between being an independent bully, a hanger on to the Jimbo crew, or occasionally even their leader.
Homer and Wiggum is a weird one. Sometimes they're friends, sometimes they're not, sometimes they get a spotlight together. The flashbacks compound the weirdness, as Wiggum seems to have been in Homer's life at least since high school, but might be a little older. They seem to have always kinda known each other.
I recently watch the Tomacco episode and Wiggum doesn’t seem to recognise Homer as he refers to him as “Mr farmer man”. I’ve noticed this pattern come up a lot where he either knows Homer or treats him as a stranger.
The reason why Martin & Lisa don't interact, is because Lisa has always been written as a character with very few friends, if any, so having Martin being a presence would undermine that. Sure, they are apart of the same "Nerd-Circles", at times, but those instances are normally swept under the rug in Lisa based episodes. It's also the reason why, out of the Elemtary Kids, Lisa's class has no one notable, besides Ralph. Bart is the one with Nelson, Millhouse and Martin. Almost everyone else is just an extra. The reason why Bart has those three friends* is so they can write story lines with them doing things which naturally fits Bart/Bart 'n' Lisa based plots.
I could see kind of a dynamic where they occasionally hang out and she's embarrassed to be seen with him sometimes because of his lacking of self awareness, but at the end of the day he's one of her few actual friends who she can just sort of openly be herself around without fear of being judged... Or subvert it and have him be a judgemental asshole. :P But then they could do the same thing with Ralph if they really wanted.
This is something I’ve always wondered since watching Trilogy of Error for the first time, that ominous line from Martin seemed like it came out of thin air. I guess we’ve never had a proper Lisa/Martin episode because they wouldn’t have anything in common, like you and the bar napkin said. I really like shows that play with and explore character archetypes, like there isn’t just “the smart one” or “the athletic one”, you can have at least two smart or athletic characters that are completely different people with unique personalities. That’s the mark of a writer who pulls from what they’ve experienced in life, and it manages to make a story and world more authentic. Love the thumbnail by the way, CZcams viewers love diagonal lines. And good luck for Season 11, you’re gonna need all the focusyn, tomacco and white pearl cereal you can get.
I'm one of the people who joined in this discussion over on twitter (you can even see my tweet at the end of the video), so I'm so glad you actually made this episode! Great as always, btw. I wouldn't mind seeing more episodes like this. Off the top of my head I've always wondered what the hell is up with Lisa and Janey's on-again off-again friendship.
I always got the sense that Lisa was mildly annoyed by Martin. Martin seems kinda off in his own world while Lisa seems more self conscious, and she finds his antics embarrassing or irritating. I'm glad you made this video, kinda like scratching an itch you never knew you had.
@@ChiefMedicPururu because of all the girl boss trashy corporate ""feminism"" in some modern films and tv shows. The writers don't really have anything new or of value to say so they just use lazy overdone story lines to try appeal to women without actually understanding or offering anything of substance. A lot of media has been doing it in recent years.
@@laurene988 You just know Hollywood is run by crusty old white guys because of that. I mean, yeah everyone knows that, but their corporate, pandering idea of "feminism" makes it even more glaringly obvious. Nothing but cookie cutter gorgeous women with superpowers, no weaknesses, no personalities, no setbacks struggles to overcome, and deliriously happy to uphold the status quo. 🤦♀️
As a former Gifted Kid, I can identify with this way too well. There were plenty of other Gifted Kids I was in elementary school with who I was in the same special classes with, a lot of the same clubs, went to a lot of the same events together, and yet barely knew and never interacted with socially. We might have had similar interests, but those interests did not really include other people. I imagine Lisa and Martin are similar.
Personally, I could see the two of them working quite well in an 'Old Man and the Lisa' type storyline, where the two of them bond over some sort of shared project, only to break friends again when they realise that they don't share the same ethics. I feel like one of the ways that Martin is most noticeably differentiated from Lisa is that he shows no interest in social justice, whereas Lisa is if anything slightly too passionate about it, so there's a lot of room for them to disagree there.
Good call, TheRealJims - I've never consciously thought about it, but Lisa and Martin do seem like characters of fairly similar intelligence and standing that, looking back at it, is odd that they've never been showcased as a combination alongside/opposite each other for an episode, especially when considering how many times we've had "Lisa and Milhouse" and "Lisa and Nelson" episodes, either in terms of A or B plots (heck, we've even had "Lisa and Ralph"!). Then again, I've long noticed that Martin can be a slightly curious character that seemed to feature more in early seasons (and a 'natural enemy' to Bart much but not all of the time) who kinda fades into the background slightly by the mid-Golden Era (bearing in mind I "don't do TV nowadays" and haven't really seen much past s13-ish, so not overly sure how he's been utilised since then) and also one that the writers will often bend slightly character-wise depending what they want out of him for the plot. He's always felt like a really good character but maybe one they've never fully settled or agreed on what to treat him as, and how. But a Lisa and Martin story, yeah, I can totally see that, and it's pretty amazing there's never really been one, especially with some of the many other unlikely combinations we've seen over the years. But great theme for a video and surly a possible starting point for a new semi-regular series for the channel - either "Unlikeliest pairing combos over the years", and/or more general ones tallying up some of the more common ones we've seen in done more often in different forms (Homer/Burns, Homer/Flanders, Bart/Skinner...... and various other ones I can't think of right now), and the different forms and angles they've taken. Certainly regarding Homer and Burns, they've gone from everything to arch rivals to best friends to "Okay let's just press the reset button on this and forget about it by next episode", in the writer's eyes at least. Or even a "different ways the same characters have been interpreted" series, like the different "versions" of a character writers will use to serve the purposes of the plot - certainly Bart had/has a few different "versions", even post early "hellion" incarnation, varying from innocent misguided youth to scheming child menace, and his intelligence fluctuates with it; Ralph (and to an extent Chief Wiggum) has obviously evolved - just some random examples here - and don't even get us started on the complex, tangled "What are they treating him as at the moment?" web of Homer himself. :)
Ha, I remember that poetry off between them from the comics! One of these days it'd be cool to see you explore how the comics takes things from the show like Ottos Busman hero idea, and embellishes it
I'd like to see a video on the relationship between Bart & Sherri AND Terri. There's been so many angles on them. Does one like him? Do they both like him? Or do they just want to mess with him? Does he like them? Does he still think they have cooties (GOD I hate that trope so much!)? Later episodes really seem to be treating it like an OTP (or even OT3) situation. It's really interesting to me to see how this has evolved over the decades, with changing standards of humor and portrayals of childhood.
I think that Lisa and Martin are more "friendly rivals" than anything else. I feel like Lisa and Martin have that intellectual rivalry where each one HAS to be the smartest person in the room. In the episode "Girls Just Wanna Have Sums", Lisa feels joy in the surprise of discovering that she ISN'T the smartest person in the room for once and that Martin may be just as intelligent as her; there is, however, that moment later, of what I feel is pettiness, where Martin prances on-stage with his flute and begins singing the opening to "Thick As A Brick" before Lisa knocks him out with a chair to the head (although, to be fair, "Thick As A Brick" is a REALLY long song, coming in nearly 44 minutes long). Although, it is also implied in the episode "Holidays of Future Passed" that Martin underwent a sex change operation as an adult and became "Marcia Princess".
I discovered this channel a year ago or so, and it has easily become one of my favorite channels. I really like your content and how you edit your videos. I like it so much, that I used some of them for my final assignment in college. The only think I can say is thank you for everything you do
Id like to see you explore the dynamic between Reverend Lovejoy and Ned Flanders. Lovejoy on many occasions is apathetic towards Flanders without Ned realising, Lovejoy even loses his willingness to help people because of Flanders, and yet theyre part of the same bowling team, they meet up constantly with their wives (it cant be that theyre the only 2 christian couples). Ned has even shown anger towards Lovejoy when he doesnt sing the right words during the roast of Homer Simpson.
@@loonytunescrazy usually we see Lovejoy hating on Flanders yet they seem to spend so much time together. Its not like the Chief Wiggum and Lou dynamic where they are catty towards eachother because they work together all the time.
why does this comment have 34 upvotes after two hours all he did was restate the video's subject and add "nobody" at the top who are you people upvoting this, why are you people upvoting this, *why*
Another great video. One that has me thinking about Lisa and her lack of friends. She is portrayed as isolated but often is shown in groups or clubs ( the super friends, slumber parties, birthdays, ect.) she also is able to make friends pretty quickly ( Alison, the beach kids) it makes me wonder if Lisa is either just introverted or just had some kind of issues with her perspective. Like maybe she doesn’t realize how many friends she actually has. I also don’t think that Lisa and Martian are particularly antagonistic towards each other. I do believe there can be times when they have a bit of competition between each other, but I think the most likely reason they aren’t seen together more often together is because they would have the same role in any given story ( brainiac who provides the solution or facts). Comedy comes in the dysfunction of a situation or relationship, so having two characters who would work well together doesn’t make for a lot of comedy. As for Lisa hanging around with barts classmates a few things need to be taken into account. Millhouse is barts best friend and so a lot of Millhouse hanging is typically him hanging around Bart ( the times Millhouse peruses his crush of Lisa Aside.) Nelson was Lisa’s first crush and that relationship usually plays off that episode. As for Sherri and Teri, I’ll chalk it up to the writers and animators not wanting to have to design another character or two for what would usually be just a quick scene. Anyways good stuff like always, I look forward to the next video
I get the vibe that Lisa is the kid version of "Hollywood Dateless": a number of sitcoms have the sad sack singleton who's portrayed as hopeless in the romance department while simultaneously dating all the time. Lisa is portrayed as a lonely friendless loser, while simultaneously having a ton of friends.
@@jaybeetee5272 I’m also thinking that while she has a best friend named Jaime, she isn’t as close with anyone as Bart is with his best friend. Another way she can see Bart as getting everything.
@@CGTV100 i think it's been confirmed her being so smart makes her an outcast since the crayon episode made homer smart and arrogant and his friends started to hate him so he put a crayon back. seemingly to have friends in springfield you gotta be dumb and not arrogant.
@@ChrissaTodd I see your point, but homer always had that kinda brash or grating aspect to his personality, it just manifested in a new way. Also he found himself unable to enjoy a lot of things around him. Lisa doesn’t have this problem or at least doesn’t have it to the degree that she can’t pull a summer of 4’2’’. I’m just starting to think Lisa being an outcast is more her perception which in turn makes her more of an outcast other social situations and that the character could really benefit from an episode exploring this and maybe even shaking off some of this aspect of her character.
-"The Queen of Summer time" joke I don't see as making a gay joke instead it something what a 10 year old would say knowing nothing outside their world. - Both Lisa and Martin narcissist and yet are the ying and yang of Springfield. -Also two rival nerd gangs that how we ended up with nuclear weapons.
great video - this is something I've actually thought about it before so really cool to see it covered in-depth! I'd absolutely love to see you cover more of the comic in future if that's something you're interested in, there's definitely some guff but there's also some really great storylines in the earlier part of the run
Hey, I just wanted to say I really enjoy your little.videos 🙂 I just happen to comment on this one but all of them I've watched have been good. I like that you explore the world of the Simpsons in a fun way without being all serious and ruining it😀. Have a great day
I appreciate this thoughtful and rational content. It's rare for content creators who make content similar to this to actually be skeptical about evidence like this without being insufferably cynical or defensive. Occam's Razor is also not used nearly enough. It's things like this that are why you're one of only a few channels I have notifications for.
A nice analysis as always. I would adore an episode about two rival gangs of nerds in springfield elementary, such potential lost there. Lisa and Martin do make one another better -- they are like productive frenemies (imo)
As someone who has never really committed to being one type of nerd and so tries to be in various circles, the ones who are really committed to one type of nerdery tend to see that thing as superior to basically everything else.
I love Simpsons mysteries as a series, perhaps a next mystery is how old each of the kids are, especially Rod and Todd which you covered recently, a deep dive into some of Springfield elementaries lesser known characters would be fun too, database and wendell spring to mind
In Season 6 episode 17, Homer vs Patty and Selma. The TV mysteriously switch on and off when Lisa and Homer are watching TV. Nobody knows who switched it on or off
I was just wondering this a couple of days ago. I’d want to imagine them as friends, simply bc they’re my favorite characters, but it makes sense that they wouldn’t be. The point about kids being tribalistic about age and gender is an interesting factor. I also think that it could be that Lisa and Martin both see mirrors of themselves in each other and decide, “Nah lets keep our distance.”
I always feel like they have sort of a friendly rivalry since they're both the 2 smartest people in the school. They can be polite and OK with each other but when it comes to academics they can be really competitive Her and Martin don't like to share the spotlight it seems
I think you could do one on Ned and Moe. You don't expect them to have a lot of moments together but they're featured together a lot, usually when Homer gets a posse together (when they spy on Apu, the vigilante group, the biker gang) plus Ned brings up Moe's softer side like when he mentions him reading at the hospital or at the soup kitchen
OMG I’ve always thought about this, I’d imagine Martin and Lisa would be like best friends, but they aren’t. 7:50, uh oh! Didn’t know Martin was a _gamer_ *gasp!
great mysteries episode! Have you ever thought about doing a video list of your favourite Simpsons episodes for their visuals/animation? I don't think the Simpsons gets enough credit for its art direction, first 10 seasons had some great visuals!
Swear this channel just popped up for me one day and I hadn't looked up anything to do with the simps since like 15 years ago, yet it was just such good content I subbed and then got back into the simps. Sorry the term simp.reminds me of the Simpsons back when I didn't know what simp meant so it stuck
Was cool to see the comics get a mention. I'd be interested to see more about extended canon like that. I haven't read many but I had a Bartman one as a kid in the 90s. I remember being surprised by the darker tone and how seriously they took the premise. Could make an interesting video.
My argument is kinda simple; we hate the who that is almost us. They are very similar characters, which is why they don't get along. Lisa, among other things, is a rebel at heart. Martin is a conformist. Lisa creates art, Martin just recreates it.
Season 11 is up next, but wanted to take this little detour first. Lisa and Martin are two characters who show up in many of the same kinds of places, but rarely have anything to do with each other. It's this weird character relationship void that I'm surprised the series hasn't really addressed in 32 seasons of stories.
When is the season 11 video happening
Alligator the was the entire alive time
Can't wait for the video! I have to say, Sunday Cruddy Sunday was one of those episodes that I had never felt the need to rewatch, but your input on it brought to surface some nice aspects about it. It does some good jokes, and speaking of weird character pairings, I've even forgotten the moment where Lovejoy towel whips Homer while he's on the phone with Clinton.
But, you know, make sure Behind the Laughter is number one. (Just kidding. It's a very mediocre season overall, so that particular episode really stands out. That and the tomacco one).
Be honest: It's been a real chore coming up with a top 10 for season 11, isn't it? Not that these detours are bad, of course...
We want simpsons histories Moe or Willy
I think we learned from Lisa's Rival that Lisa doesn't really want to be friends with people who are as smart as she is. She wants to be around smart people, but she needs to be the smartest in the room in order to not feel jealous.
She doesn't like when other kids are as smart as her. When the smartest person is an adult or someone she looks up to, she is just happy to be included and feels validated by the attention.
That’s a really insightful take tbh
That was only one girl and Lisa realized she could be.
Also, I wouldn't say it's because she gets jealous. She is insecure about her looks, social skills and "coolness" so she defines herself as being the smart-more mature one. The crisis is similar to when Bart is a drummer or Maggie is a genius, but no when she meets Julie or Colin who are as talented as her but no adult makes a comparison between the two.
She likes hanging out with the super nerds but feels like she needs to keep it a secret.
Martin always felt like he was going to end up being best friends with Bart, Milhouse and Nelson in highschool.
That kind of sounds like it'd make a fun spin-off
It’s crazy to think that off the 4, I can’t tell if it’s Bart or Nelson whose the straight man of the quartet.
@@vinnythewebsurfer I think it might vary, depending on the situation they find themselves in. That's part of what makes it so "right," ye know?
I think Ralph would somehow be in that squad too.
@@driveasandwich6734 I've always wondered, what if to combat the show being stale now, they went "fuck it. Advance time" and each year we'd see the characters get a little older,
Would certainly give them more material but no way they'd ever do it for obvious reasons
How about Simpsons Mysteries: Kearny’s Age?
"As a teenager and the father of a teenager..."
Great suggestion
His ID confirms his adultivity.
Lmao ! This!
Those tall ships really lifted our nations spirits after watergate - Kearney
That two different type of nerds hating each other comment rings so true, that for awhile didn't want to believe it, but seeing film nerds, literature nerds, game nerds, anime nerds, and comic nerds all hate on each other on a daily basis makes this pairing so incompatible very realistic.
Yeah, I never understood that gatekeep-y BS.
@@WobblesandBean I hate civilization 5. I think it is dumbed down in comparison to civilization 4. It disappointed me.
So I hear companies talk about wanting to reach a wider audience and it kind of makes my skin crawl. I like complexity and that doesn't sell to general audiences.
@@warrenjehosephat231 Civ V is basically "Civ, The Memes Edition for Basic Bitches", so I feel you.
Don't forget sports nerds
@@WobblesandBean exclusivity give people a sense of importance regardless of how actually important they are.
Theres a pitfall with a Martin/Lisa pairing. If they were established as good friends it'd tell against Lisa's isolation and loneliness, but neither of them is the sort to actively dislike the hr other.
Exactly, it makes sense if you think of the show's writing as a practical based first over continuity and relationships.
Honestly I think the whole "Lisa is the most unpopular person in the school" angle is dated and played out, just have her hang out with Martin and Allison and maybe develop Sherry and Terry more as her bitchy fake friends. I wouldn't mind if they finally gave Janey/Jaime an established personality either.
@@garthst.claire3459 Yeah I really wish the writers would actually use the other background kids they've had on the show for years instead of introducing a new one off kids who are forgotten about and never seen again past their episode.
@@garthst.claire3459 I've always assumed I've just never seen the Janey episodes. Is she really that flat?
@@phineas81707 Yeah, she was not used that much and I don't remember any episode where Janey and Lisa hang out despite Janey was suppose to be Lisa's "friend".
I just like the concept of there being an underground nerd war, with Lisa and Martin at the head of it.
Martin is a square, he loves authority.
Lisa is portrayed as a rebel and a free spirit.
This is ultimately the reason for their distance: their battles, their circles, their whole focus is different.
It dawned on me when you mentioned the Pre-teen Braves and the Cavalry Kids: neither of them would fit in the other group, at all.
I remember when it was revealed that Martin was the only student to voluntarily allow the school to implant a tracking chip in his skull. My first thought was along the lines of "Lisa would obviously never go along with that. Maybe that's why they're not close."
I don’t think Lisa is that much of a rebel or a free spirit
She can be very square as well, she absolutely loves school and is obsessed with getting perfect grades
However moments like her new speech in mrs Lisa goes to Washington shows that she does have a lil rebellious streak
No Lisa is a midwit with a large vocabulary and good rote memorization. In the relevant seasons of the simpsons I can’t recall her doing anything STEM related besides her hamster/Bart experiment.
Martin is a multitude smarter by his coding and built projects.
@@buckfastbjork6968 no no you misunderstand the dynamic here
Lisa is the kind of character who goes along with authority provided said authority lines up with what she thinks is correct, but fight against it when its exemplifies something that she thinks is wrong. Martion would go with the authority either way most likely
Shes not a rebel without a cause, she won't rebel for the sake of it, shes not bart, but when she thinks her cause is just she goes all out
@@rustyshackleford3649 Linguo the talking robot?
It kinda makes sense, Lisa is a humanities geek whilst Martin is a STEM nerd. More often than not those types fall on completely different social groups and are usually politically opposed. They both dabble in each other's specialities but are really two sides of the same coin.
Yes, Lisa is all for animal rights but Martin would probably do animal testing.
@@EthantotheMax Martin is right
🎯
@@tesseract2144indeed
Something I love about this series is it makes me ask questions I'd never think of. Like here, I never thought about the odd vacuum that is Lisa and Martin's relationship, but it is weird.
They don't have one.
I've always thought about this since the early years. It's almost like the show tried to consiously ignore the fact that they had created two similar eggheads, so every time an egghead was required, they had to just just pick the one they considered most appropriate to story that week!
They are different.
Lisa isn't similar to Martin. Lisa is more egotistical. She is like an adult in a kid's body. Martin seems more like an actual kid. For example, he was fighting with Bart and Milhouse over the comic book.
Lisa & Martin working together to build something they couldn't on their own, and then have an all-out war over who gets top billing. There, that's a plot that writes itself
Problem is they already did that storyline... with Lisa & Marge in Springfield Splendor.
@@bradlascelle7131 Simpsons did it!
reusing a plot, big deal
I like how TheRealJims seems to be posting videos like this just so he doesn’t have to drop the Season 11 retrospective because it’s killing his soul
No its just because he comes up with original ideas.
It might be because I was 10 but s11 was/is still awesome to me.
A little from Column A, a little from Column B
@@TheRealJims that’s hilarious! But seriously though take your time, I’m really looking forward to what you have to say as always
@@Sassssky there’s some good stuff in it for sure, it’s just that he hasn’t exactly been shy about his distaste for a LOT of the episodes in this season
I am again humbly suggesting, anything covering Millhouse's dog. It is an almost contant prescense in the show but sometimes it is a real dog and sometimes a plushie of a dog. What is it really?
Puppy Goo-Goo is a real dog and Milhouse has a plushie version of it that smells like strawberries... if that makes any sense
I always assumed it WAS a real dog, then died and was stuffed so Milhouse could cope with her death
And i think sometimes the dog changed its race... i can't remember but i think it was something like a yorkshire and then in another it was a chihuahua
@@GarkKahn Dogs don't have races lmao, it's breeds. And true, in that dog takeover town episode there was a chihuawa so they might have got another dog
Maybe it's a Hobbes object-character duality situation?
It recently caught my attention that Homer and reverend Lovejoy are not friends, despite the fact that both of them hate Ned Flanders, and it seems that each of them have their own reasons to hate him
Well, Rev. Lovejoy finds Homer annoying, too, just for different reasons than he finds Ned annoying.
Captain Whatshisname?
Their wifes hate each other's guts
Lisa and Martin are in different grades; hard to pair them in school settings, save for like, events and non-actual school stuff.
Doesn't stop lisa with Milhouse, Nelson and the twins
This is true, but Milhouse and Nelson are also two grades ahead of Lisa and still have plenty of stories with her. I think it might have more to do with the de-emphasizing of Martin's appearances as the series progresses than anything.
They're in the same school. They share the same interests.
Like TheRealJims said they're not particularly good foils for one another.
While Milhouse and Nelson have interactions with her, Milhouse is Bart's best friend, Nelson is Bart's bully (and picking on younger kids is still easy) or friend, and both of them have the romance angle.
Martin on the other hand isn't that close to Bart, and is about as straight and masculine as I am, so there's not as much reason to interact.
You know, just an aside, but I never got the impression there was a joke about Martin being gay until the past few years when I heard people talk about it.
I always saw him as a dork. A guy that liked what he liked and was either blind to/or didnt care, how he was viewed by others.
A lot of people bring up the "Queen of Summer" as evidence, but I always saw that as him being overjoyed at taking Lisa's role as the top dog in kids summertime aquatic popularity, that he didn't even think about the wording he was using. Just that he was taking Lisa's title.
I always saw him as essentially asexual. He just doesn't really do other people at all, he lives in his own world. And that includes not being capable of sexual/romantic interest in others.
no one does that with Milhouse and his penchant for awkward phrasing;
and he's such a good big sister
"... and *that's* why lisa and Martin shot Mr Burns."
Ooh this is a great idea! I was so intrigued by the question when you posted it on Twitter I had to repost it 😄 Thanks Jims!
I love seeing you pop up on my other favorite channels, cameo or the comments!:)
Thanks Strider! :D
It's nice to have characters interact with each other when they normally don't, like Principal Skinner and Apu, or Bart and Lisa with Mr. Smithers.
I think they really nailed the vibe of “top students in elementary” where there’s this sort of low-key hostility that’s a lot stronger when it comes to the school staff’s “number two”, but, because stories are told with Lisa as the main character of the duo, that gets relegated to moments like the static ball and it’s not like “homer looking at ned flanders”.
The thumbnail reminds me of Shonen anime, like Lisa is gonna stop Martin mad with power
Like Akira
@@mathieuleader8601 Oh my god you just reminded me that there's literally a Simpsons X Akira comic series
Well speaking of which, I always found that Aoyama from My Hero Academia has a certain physical resemblance to Martyn, and also a psychological one when it came to competing with others
I think you should've seen this coming. You should do a Simpsons history on Martin.
He's said that he's waiting to see how the production handles the character after Russi Taylor passed away.
He should do one for database.
I never noticed how much he appears in the show.
I don't think they're friends- he's just as unpopular with the ladies as he is with the chaps!
They are also from a different social class. Mr. Prince, Martin's father, takes him to the trading floor of a stock exchange in Bart on the Road. Lisa is shown having a problematic relationship with her working class heritage at times. Martin's last name is Prince and I assume that is no accident.
That's a good point I hadn't considered. Actually kinda surprised the Princes didn't send Martin to a private school or whatever. Maybe they have gambling debts or something
Oh wow, thank you for replying personally to my comment. I just said to my bf, look at me I'm so smart, s m r t. Lol
I mean s. m. a. r. t.@@amaliapursell
Something like TheRealJims could maybe do is more Simpsons Comics related material, that was a fresh new take on the Simpsons Canon that I was unaware of
I also always borrowed Simpsons Comic Books from the public library when I was younger and want to feel brushing up on that Simpsons Lore wasn't a complete and total waste of a childhood.
DEFINETLY! I watch a Simpsons mexican CZcamsr and he always brings up things from the comics, it's actually pretty interesting.
Am i the only one that really likes the idea that their are two gangs of nerds in Springfield elementary. Maybe one is STEM oriented and the other being humanities leaning?
Sounds fun, the town just thinks theyre a big group of nerds, and often they have to do activities together, but they hate eachother so much. Academic superiority complex and later understanding how disciplines overlap
More like STEM vs pop culture.
It would make sense were it just Martin and Lisa, but the other members of the Super Friends seem to be sort of spread out in their interests.
Ah yes stem vs humanities, the eternal battle between a complete fake distinction
haha that what as always where I saw a difference between Martin and Lisa when I used to watch the show.
Lisa is good at STEM, but her true passions seem to be things like literature, philosophy, politics, the arts, etc.
Martin, on other hand, sure likes poetry and stuff as well, but his main interest seems to lie in math- and engineering-related fields
I would love to see a Simpsons Histories on Martin. Back when the show was new and it was based around Bart-Mania, Martin was Bart's rival and antithesis. The guy had some fairly big screen time and relation stuff with Bart in Bart The Genius and Bart Gets An F. As Jim would put it, it was the Golden Age of Martin. Then came season 3 when Bart Mania died and Homer-is-the-main-character Mania took over. Around the time Bart's group of friends was reduced to only Milhouse and characters like Dr. Pryor and Herman were losing relevance fast, Lisa started taking over the role of the precocious, smart child who could go toe to toe with Bart away from Martin. Martin's role was changed from the smart kid to the effeminate kid.
I know he's not forgotten like Herman or the Winfields, but I do think Martin is one of those season 1 characters who lost importance as the show discovered itself.
Herman being in plenty of stories like the counterfit jean opereating in Simpsons connections and the Plup fiction parody in 22 short films about Springfield they key herman sttoriesIgive you Dr Pryo since his only other appearence his Lisa's sax
@@loonytunescrazy You have a very loose definition of plenty.
I think the same, I recently saw Bart the Genius and really liked Martin as a character compared to his modern portrayal. There really was a dip in confidence for him.
A question I didn't know I had, but now have a insatiable desire to be answered...
Personally, I think of them as friendly rival acquaintances. They can get on, but don't know each other, and a sense of competitiveness would override friendships in a one-on-one scenario.
ETA: Also, I'd love to see you dive into the Simpsons comics more. I don't think it's a ground many people tread but from what I've heard they can be actually pretty solid stories.
Another core difference I notice between them is that Martin is interested in investments and capital like his father, while Lisa tends to represent more liberal ideals - supporting a workers' strike, fighting for feminist ideals in a Malibu Stacey alternative, convincing the town and Mr Burns to take up recycling, etc. So while they are both intellectuals, I think their fundamental ideologies are actually opposed, which could lead to some decent interactions if it weren't for politics being so depressing these days.
Im sorry to inform you that politics were equally depressing back then, you just happened not to notice or be affected
I never noticed that before. Perhaps Martin’s slight sexism is a part of this semi political fuid.
You should do a similar video about Bart and Maggie's relationship since it's so rarely even addressed. There's only been a handful of times in the whole series where they've interacted I think. I know a few years ago there was that B-plot where they just hung out causing trouble at the hairdressers etc, but before that the only moment I can think of was when they were playing monopoly together
Homer and Cletus comes to mind. He's both a good friend (supposedly) but he's also met Homer for the first time in numerous episodes.
Cletus would be a good candidate for a simpsons histories.
The pairing of Apu and snake I remember having some weird moments where it’s like “ah yes my weekly robbery friend”
Yeah that was funny when they went to a counsellor and acted liked they breaking up
Now Jim needs to do a series exploring the untapped lore of Simpsons' comics
Martin's raw masculine energy is simply too much for Lisa to handle.
Real mystery: are Nelson and Martin friends?
One episode he's bullying Martin, in the next they are good chums.
You know what I find weirder, I can’t think of a single Bart and Maggie centric plot
B-plot in "How Lisa Got Her Marge Back", season 27.
What would they do
I feel like it would happen if the characters actually aged. An older Maggie would probably be sort of rebellious like Bart, and an older Bart would probably mellow out a bit, so that's kind of a cool dynamic they could explore. Maybe she finds his old skateboard or something. :P
Watch how Lisa got her Marge Back.
@@PeterParker-ff7ub Bart would be forced to take care of his sister and babysit or whatever.
I don't think it's the lack of a character foil, there are similar dynamics with two smart characters with different viewpoints in TV sitcoms that show it can be done and done very well, the golden example being Frasier and Niles who wrote the book on how you do this kind of storyline, so much so that they got Simpsons spin-off characters made in their likeness for it
Great idea for a video. You don’t really think about the pairings you rarely see.
I always had the same feeling about the status of Nelson in relation to the bully trio.
He seems to oscillate between being an independent bully, a hanger on to the Jimbo crew, or occasionally even their leader.
Homer and Wiggum is a weird one. Sometimes they're friends, sometimes they're not, sometimes they get a spotlight together. The flashbacks compound the weirdness, as Wiggum seems to have been in Homer's life at least since high school, but might be a little older. They seem to have always kinda known each other.
That also fact the Wiggium helped Homer's mother escape
I recently watch the Tomacco episode and Wiggum doesn’t seem to recognise Homer as he refers to him as “Mr farmer man”. I’ve noticed this pattern come up a lot where he either knows Homer or treats him as a stranger.
"The simplest explanation is probably the correct one."
The reason why Martin & Lisa don't interact, is because Lisa has always been written as a character with very few friends, if any, so having Martin being a presence would undermine that. Sure, they are apart of the same "Nerd-Circles", at times, but those instances are normally swept under the rug in Lisa based episodes. It's also the reason why, out of the Elemtary Kids, Lisa's class has no one notable, besides Ralph. Bart is the one with Nelson, Millhouse and Martin. Almost everyone else is just an extra. The reason why Bart has those three friends* is so they can write story lines with them doing things which naturally fits Bart/Bart 'n' Lisa based plots.
they don't know how to put them together
I could see kind of a dynamic where they occasionally hang out and she's embarrassed to be seen with him sometimes because of his lacking of self awareness, but at the end of the day he's one of her few actual friends who she can just sort of openly be herself around without fear of being judged... Or subvert it and have him be a judgemental asshole. :P
But then they could do the same thing with Ralph if they really wanted.
This is something I’ve always wondered since watching Trilogy of Error for the first time, that ominous line from Martin seemed like it came out of thin air. I guess we’ve never had a proper Lisa/Martin episode because they wouldn’t have anything in common, like you and the bar napkin said.
I really like shows that play with and explore character archetypes, like there isn’t just “the smart one” or “the athletic one”, you can have at least two smart or athletic characters that are completely different people with unique personalities. That’s the mark of a writer who pulls from what they’ve experienced in life, and it manages to make a story and world more authentic.
Love the thumbnail by the way, CZcams viewers love diagonal lines. And good luck for Season 11, you’re gonna need all the focusyn, tomacco and white pearl cereal you can get.
I'm one of the people who joined in this discussion over on twitter (you can even see my tweet at the end of the video), so I'm so glad you actually made this episode! Great as always, btw. I wouldn't mind seeing more episodes like this. Off the top of my head I've always wondered what the hell is up with Lisa and Janey's on-again off-again friendship.
This is one of my fav videos, I get the urge to rewatch it all the time lol. The research is fascinating into a topic I never thought about before
I wanna know about the pet fish in The Simpsons' front room. Homer even says at one point _"When did we get these fish?"_ or something similar.
I always got the sense that Lisa was mildly annoyed by Martin. Martin seems kinda off in his own world while Lisa seems more self conscious, and she finds his antics embarrassing or irritating. I'm glad you made this video, kinda like scratching an itch you never knew you had.
I think Martin getting more sexist is mostly thanks to the hamfisted writers team trying to keep the show relevant and failing miserably
...I don't get what sexism has to do with relevance?
@@ChiefMedicPururu because of all the girl boss trashy corporate ""feminism"" in some modern films and tv shows.
The writers don't really have anything new or of value to say so they just use lazy overdone story lines to try appeal to women without actually understanding or offering anything of substance.
A lot of media has been doing it in recent years.
@@laurene988 You just know Hollywood is run by crusty old white guys because of that. I mean, yeah everyone knows that, but their corporate, pandering idea of "feminism" makes it even more glaringly obvious. Nothing but cookie cutter gorgeous women with superpowers, no weaknesses, no personalities, no setbacks struggles to overcome, and deliriously happy to uphold the status quo. 🤦♀️
Well, Holidays of Future Passed, it could have a little more meaning behind it.
@@demi-femme4821 ?
As a former Gifted Kid, I can identify with this way too well. There were plenty of other Gifted Kids I was in elementary school with who I was in the same special classes with, a lot of the same clubs, went to a lot of the same events together, and yet barely knew and never interacted with socially. We might have had similar interests, but those interests did not really include other people. I imagine Lisa and Martin are similar.
Personally, I could see the two of them working quite well in an 'Old Man and the Lisa' type storyline, where the two of them bond over some sort of shared project, only to break friends again when they realise that they don't share the same ethics. I feel like one of the ways that Martin is most noticeably differentiated from Lisa is that he shows no interest in social justice, whereas Lisa is if anything slightly too passionate about it, so there's a lot of room for them to disagree there.
They always struck me as "Not friends,yet don't exactly dislike each other"
Good call, TheRealJims - I've never consciously thought about it, but Lisa and Martin do seem like characters of fairly similar intelligence and standing that, looking back at it, is odd that they've never been showcased as a combination alongside/opposite each other for an episode, especially when considering how many times we've had "Lisa and Milhouse" and "Lisa and Nelson" episodes, either in terms of A or B plots (heck, we've even had "Lisa and Ralph"!).
Then again, I've long noticed that Martin can be a slightly curious character that seemed to feature more in early seasons (and a 'natural enemy' to Bart much but not all of the time) who kinda fades into the background slightly by the mid-Golden Era (bearing in mind I "don't do TV nowadays" and haven't really seen much past s13-ish, so not overly sure how he's been utilised since then) and also one that the writers will often bend slightly character-wise depending what they want out of him for the plot. He's always felt like a really good character but maybe one they've never fully settled or agreed on what to treat him as, and how. But a Lisa and Martin story, yeah, I can totally see that, and it's pretty amazing there's never really been one, especially with some of the many other unlikely combinations we've seen over the years.
But great theme for a video and surly a possible starting point for a new semi-regular series for the channel - either "Unlikeliest pairing combos over the years", and/or more general ones tallying up some of the more common ones we've seen in done more often in different forms (Homer/Burns, Homer/Flanders, Bart/Skinner...... and various other ones I can't think of right now), and the different forms and angles they've taken. Certainly regarding Homer and Burns, they've gone from everything to arch rivals to best friends to "Okay let's just press the reset button on this and forget about it by next episode", in the writer's eyes at least. Or even a "different ways the same characters have been interpreted" series, like the different "versions" of a character writers will use to serve the purposes of the plot - certainly Bart had/has a few different "versions", even post early "hellion" incarnation, varying from innocent misguided youth to scheming child menace, and his intelligence fluctuates with it; Ralph (and to an extent Chief Wiggum) has obviously evolved - just some random examples here - and don't even get us started on the complex, tangled "What are they treating him as at the moment?" web of Homer himself. :)
Sideshow Mel and Moe get a weird amount of time together in crowd scenes due to their mob mentality behavior
His geode MUST be acknowledged!
The writers are more comfortable with "Lisa makes a new friend voiced by a guest star for one episode" storyline than having a consistent friend.
Now I NEED an episode of lisa and Martin
And SelMoe
My first thought weirdly went to the Simpson vs. Prince comic showdown! Glad to see you mentioned it!
Ha, I remember that poetry off between them from the comics!
One of these days it'd be cool to see you explore how the comics takes things from the show like Ottos Busman hero idea, and embellishes it
I'd like to see a video on the relationship between Bart & Sherri AND Terri. There's been so many angles on them. Does one like him? Do they both like him? Or do they just want to mess with him? Does he like them? Does he still think they have cooties (GOD I hate that trope so much!)? Later episodes really seem to be treating it like an OTP (or even OT3) situation. It's really interesting to me to see how this has evolved over the decades, with changing standards of humor and portrayals of childhood.
I think that Lisa and Martin are more "friendly rivals" than anything else.
I feel like Lisa and Martin have that intellectual rivalry where each one HAS to be the smartest person in the room.
In the episode "Girls Just Wanna Have Sums", Lisa feels joy in the surprise of discovering that she ISN'T the smartest person in the room for once and that Martin may be just as intelligent as her; there is, however, that moment later, of what I feel is pettiness, where Martin prances on-stage with his flute and begins singing the opening to "Thick As A Brick" before Lisa knocks him out with a chair to the head (although, to be fair, "Thick As A Brick" is a REALLY long song, coming in nearly 44 minutes long).
Although, it is also implied in the episode "Holidays of Future Passed" that Martin underwent a sex change operation as an adult and became "Marcia Princess".
I discovered this channel a year ago or so, and it has easily become one of my favorite channels. I really like your content and how you edit your videos. I like it so much, that I used some of them for my final assignment in college. The only think I can say is thank you for everything you do
Id like to see you explore the dynamic between Reverend Lovejoy and Ned Flanders. Lovejoy on many occasions is apathetic towards Flanders without Ned realising, Lovejoy even loses his willingness to help people because of Flanders, and yet theyre part of the same bowling team, they meet up constantly with their wives (it cant be that theyre the only 2 christian couples). Ned has even shown anger towards Lovejoy when he doesnt sing the right words during the roast of Homer Simpson.
Lovejoy hates Flander almost as much as Homer does it a surprise that Homer and Lovejoy aren't friends because of that
@@loonytunescrazy usually we see Lovejoy hating on Flanders yet they seem to spend so much time together. Its not like the Chief Wiggum and Lou dynamic where they are catty towards eachother because they work together all the time.
Dude I fucking love the intro music for this series. I always look forward to new Simpsons Mysteries so I can hear that SWEET chill drum groove.
Nobody:
TheRealJims: Do Lisa and Martin have a millennia-old rivalry?
That's how people find out about things.
why does this comment have 34 upvotes after two hours
all he did was restate the video's subject and add "nobody" at the top
who are you people upvoting this, why are you people upvoting this, *why*
@@ohnoitschris I agree
R.I.P Russi Taylor
don't read the 4th and 5th words of lisa's poem at 10:05
worst mistake of my life
New Simpsons mysteries lets gooooooo
We're gonna need a Simpsons Mysteries explaining what Milhouse is doing at 10:15
Another great video. One that has me thinking about Lisa and her lack of friends. She is portrayed as isolated but often is shown in groups or clubs ( the super friends, slumber parties, birthdays, ect.) she also is able to make friends pretty quickly ( Alison, the beach kids) it makes me wonder if Lisa is either just introverted or just had some kind of issues with her perspective. Like maybe she doesn’t realize how many friends she actually has. I also don’t think that Lisa and Martian are particularly antagonistic towards each other. I do believe there can be times when they have a bit of competition between each other, but I think the most likely reason they aren’t seen together more often together is because they would have the same role in any given story ( brainiac who provides the solution or facts). Comedy comes in the dysfunction of a situation or relationship, so having two characters who would work well together doesn’t make for a lot of comedy. As for Lisa hanging around with barts classmates a few things need to be taken into account. Millhouse is barts best friend and so a lot of Millhouse hanging is typically him hanging around Bart ( the times Millhouse peruses his crush of Lisa Aside.) Nelson was Lisa’s first crush and that relationship usually plays off that episode. As for Sherri and Teri, I’ll chalk it up to the writers and animators not wanting to have to design another character or two for what would usually be just a quick scene. Anyways good stuff like always, I look forward to the next video
I get the vibe that Lisa is the kid version of "Hollywood Dateless": a number of sitcoms have the sad sack singleton who's portrayed as hopeless in the romance department while simultaneously dating all the time. Lisa is portrayed as a lonely friendless loser, while simultaneously having a ton of friends.
@@jaybeetee5272 I’m also thinking that while she has a best friend named Jaime, she isn’t as close with anyone as Bart is with his best friend. Another way she can see Bart as getting everything.
@@CGTV100 i think it's been confirmed her being so smart makes her an outcast since the crayon episode made homer smart and arrogant and his friends started to hate him so he put a crayon back. seemingly to have friends in springfield you gotta be dumb and not arrogant.
@@ChrissaTodd I see your point, but homer always had that kinda brash or grating aspect to his personality, it just manifested in a new way. Also he found himself unable to enjoy a lot of things around him. Lisa doesn’t have this problem or at least doesn’t have it to the degree that she can’t pull a summer of 4’2’’. I’m just starting to think Lisa being an outcast is more her perception which in turn makes her more of an outcast other social situations and that the character could really benefit from an episode exploring this and maybe even shaking off some of this aspect of her character.
-"The Queen of Summer time" joke I don't see as making a gay joke instead it something what a 10 year old would say knowing nothing outside their world.
- Both Lisa and Martin narcissist and yet are the ying and yang of Springfield.
-Also two rival nerd gangs that how we ended up with nuclear weapons.
great video - this is something I've actually thought about it before so really cool to see it covered in-depth! I'd absolutely love to see you cover more of the comic in future if that's something you're interested in, there's definitely some guff but there's also some really great storylines in the earlier part of the run
Hey, I just wanted to say I really enjoy your little.videos 🙂
I just happen to comment on this one but all of them I've watched have been good. I like that you explore the world of the Simpsons in a fun way without being all serious and ruining it😀.
Have a great day
Thanks John!
I appreciate this thoughtful and rational content. It's rare for content creators who make content similar to this to actually be skeptical about evidence like this without being insufferably cynical or defensive. Occam's Razor is also not used nearly enough.
It's things like this that are why you're one of only a few channels I have notifications for.
I really liked how ruthless Lisa got when she thought they killed him. It was fun to see a new side to her
This really opens up the door for further episodes about character combination speculation and I'm fully here for it.
A nice analysis as always. I would adore an episode about two rival gangs of nerds in springfield elementary, such potential lost there. Lisa and Martin do make one another better -- they are like productive frenemies (imo)
As someone who has never really committed to being one type of nerd and so tries to be in various circles, the ones who are really committed to one type of nerdery tend to see that thing as superior to basically everything else.
I love Simpsons mysteries as a series, perhaps a next mystery is how old each of the kids are, especially Rod and Todd which you covered recently, a deep dive into some of Springfield elementaries lesser known characters would be fun too, database and wendell spring to mind
karney's age I'm VERY curious lol
I never realized that Martin was 2 years older then Lisa for some reason. That's probably why they weren't put together too much in the story.
I love these Simpsons Mysteries videos, as well as the intro. Great job on another cool video!
Woohoo! New video from therealjims! Been reading your tweets and have been looking forward to this!
This just proves to me that the Simpsons REALLY needs to play with random and unexpected character combos.
In Season 6 episode 17, Homer vs Patty and Selma.
The TV mysteriously switch on and off when Lisa and Homer are watching TV. Nobody knows who switched it on or off
Your channel and content is brilliant. I couldn't even imagine thinking of these pairings, so great job
I was just wondering this a couple of days ago. I’d want to imagine them as friends, simply bc they’re my favorite characters, but it makes sense that they wouldn’t be. The point about kids being tribalistic about age and gender is an interesting factor. I also think that it could be that Lisa and Martin both see mirrors of themselves in each other and decide, “Nah lets keep our distance.”
I used to wonder about this as a kid, my inner child is super glad you did a video on this
I adore your videos. This was such an interesting topic I probably wouldn't have thought about otherwise. I'd love more like this.
this guy is answering questions no one even asked, truly the definition a chad
They're indirect rivals but don't interact that often on account of they're in different years
I always feel like they have sort of a friendly rivalry since they're both the 2 smartest people in the school. They can be polite and OK with each other but when it comes to academics they can be really competitive
Her and Martin don't like to share the spotlight it seems
I think you could do one on Ned and Moe. You don't expect them to have a lot of moments together but they're featured together a lot, usually when Homer gets a posse together (when they spy on Apu, the vigilante group, the biker gang) plus Ned brings up Moe's softer side like when he mentions him reading at the hospital or at the soup kitchen
Yooo you used the scene I mentioned to you on Twitter as the thumbnail, that’s awesome.
OMG I’ve always thought about this, I’d imagine Martin and Lisa would be like best friends, but they aren’t. 7:50, uh oh! Didn’t know Martin was a _gamer_ *gasp!
Gaymer
That poetry comic was in the first collection of Simpsons comics I ever bought. Forgot about it until you mentioned it.
Thank you for exploring this. I can finally sleep soundly at night.
great mysteries episode! Have you ever thought about doing a video list of your favourite Simpsons episodes for their visuals/animation? I don't think the Simpsons gets enough credit for its art direction, first 10 seasons had some great visuals!
Swear this channel just popped up for me one day and I hadn't looked up anything to do with the simps since like 15 years ago, yet it was just such good content I subbed and then got back into the simps. Sorry the term simp.reminds me of the Simpsons back when I didn't know what simp meant so it stuck
I've been waiting for a simpsons mysteries video for soooo long
Was cool to see the comics get a mention. I'd be interested to see more about extended canon like that. I haven't read many but I had a Bartman one as a kid in the 90s. I remember being surprised by the darker tone and how seriously they took the premise. Could make an interesting video.
My argument is kinda simple; we hate the who that is almost us. They are very similar characters, which is why they don't get along. Lisa, among other things, is a rebel at heart. Martin is a conformist. Lisa creates art, Martin just recreates it.
Holy shit! I actually own a copy of that Simpsons comic you showed! Nice.