What Happens To Abandoned Golf Courses | WSJ
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2019
- As golf declines in popularity, communities across the country are struggling with how to best redevelop the land that’s left behind. WSJ visited the Tucson suburb of Oro Valley where the town is trying to figure out what to do with its municipal course.
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This video does not tell you what happens to abandoned golf courses
@@tron23058 spot on. How can they do a video like this without talking about climate change...
They should be turned into disc golf course.
@@TehPhuzzy Yeah buddy!! 🤘🏼
I agree lol
Turn them into community farms. Local food growth managed by the community.
What a difference a few years makes. I have never seen my course this crowded....ever...
2019: Golf is in a Crisis
2021: Golf "and I took that personally"
As someone who spent 6 years working in the turf industry... I can say the reason I left was because there wasn't enough prospects given the difficulty of the work. The only people who make a decent wage are the superintendents. Given the wage competition between the nationals vs the migrant workers... it leaves little for those wanting to be in the industry yet live in the US year round.
Then there is the environmental impacts of golf courses... the fungicide toxicity and health impacts are serious. The runoff and over-spray can impact those living near the area (and whole river systems if incorrectly applied)... grass just ain't worth it.
Then you have these folks trying to grow it in the desert... water is a limited commodity in those parts... the fungus and mold issue due to irrigation are a growing issue in what use to be a basically mold free zone.
Literally a growing issue
Covid and it's lockdowns have been the best thing for golf. Since it's a no contact outdoor sport, people took it up when gyms and other sports places closed and it boomed. Can barely find a tee time now where I am
Well said, golf courses around me are super busy since Covid, it’s difficult to find tee times anywhere
One year later, because of covid, golf is absolutely booming
One year after Covid is over, golf isn’t booming anymore.
It is. I can hardly find a tee time here in NC.
You are correct, it's booming
I miss pre COVID golf🤨
Yeah because all that golf course construction is just out of control these days
At least the people who want to keep the courses seem to be willing to put their money where their collective mouth is.
closemindedness is nothing to brag about
murdelabop I mean this is The way It works in Florida, many communities actually own The courses behind their houses
Oh they'll probably bribe, I mean "lobby", local governments to give them tax breaks and other gimmes to keep their dying businesses running.
Mega Mijit how are they being closed minded?
They may be putting their money where their mouth is now, but they're also obligating the generations that come after them to do the same.
I'm mid 40's and not making 6 figures. Golf is hard to learn but easy to enjoy. Anyone can buy used clubs, join a membership group and play for pretty cheap. I used to laugh and think there was no physical demand to the game but boy was I wrong. Great way to unplug from life for 3-4 hours and enjoy the outdoors.
Excercise for a millennial is sitting playing computer games in moms basement 😐
If you suck please play behind me or let me pass
@@irbose9895 Good luck with that right now. People are just jumping right on the course who haven't played in years without bothering to practice. The range by my house is PACKED on the weekend too. I miss pre-Covid golf.
And now every golf course in the country is packed.
Golf is a luxury. Maintaining an 18 hole course is an immense undertaking that never ends. No way should taxes finance this luxury, especially in a desert with imported water.
Golf is down because:
1. People having kids later, young kids during prime playing years.
2. Expense
3. Rounds take too long. Courses should add more tee boxes.
Agree, I think executive length courses are going to be more popular, shorter and cheaper. Which are two big concerns for most people.
@@jtlegionnaire6310 honestly, more tees between 6000-5000 yards is what would help.
What young people actually play golf for fun instead of an informal business meeting? Problem with golf is that it's seen as a rich people sport and nothing else
I love golf and I’m 30. Just can’t get out there to play with work and a daughter.
I'm 50 and just starting!!! I personally love it. Going today!!!! ⛳🏌️♂️
I like the idea of turning them into parks. Much better use for the land.
@Scott E I generally agree with the sentiment, but there are three issues with that. One if you watch the flyovers of some of these golf courses you'll see a large amount of the land is long narrow strips of land between houses which would make it difficult to build homes on due to zoning and the stiff opposition from current home owners . Also, with zoning you won't be able to build anything but single family homes within that land since everything else around it is single family. Third, if there is any attempt to build on that land the current home owners would most likely try to sell their properties and with a big sell off property values would retract which would cause the municipality to lose tax revenue. With a park the property values will most likely rise which would benefit them more than adding new homes.
@Scott E I'm seeing those same zoning changes around me too. However most of those zoning changes are in specific places like in small down towns or on large individual plots of land. Usually don't see them mixed in with the suburbs around me. I guess the local town would have to determine which would bring more tax revenue. Even having tree lined streets have been shown to increase property values.
Path to Billions How is It a better use of the land?
Affordable housing!
@@pilotjonas8 so everyone can enjoy greenspace. In cities, there can be a lack of park space
Tiger Woods was not big in the 80s and 90s. He won his first PGA Tour victory in 1996 and didn't go buck wild until 1999.
The problems that people with money have.
Jimmy John Arizona is not that expensive stop crying
Golfing is quite accessible actually
People that work their whole lives so they can have a good retirement home are getting screwed on their prices they paid for their home next to a golf course. But I still like the idea of 18 holes and a park I'm a golfer make sense
A municipal golf course costs as little as $11 for 9 holes if you can’t pay that you have other problems.
Golf courses in urban areas are such a massive waste of space.
Thomas Nimmo it’s green space it’s good for air
@@iheartlreoy8134 But it's just grass.
Jackie grass isn’t a plant
Thomas Nimmo not gonna lie I don’t think is something they lack in that particular part of America.
@@iheartlreoy8134 Green space? In Arizona? You don't see the issue here? The water usage in a desert just to keep a healthy grass in a DESERT?
Golf courses in the middle of arid climate are a blight for the environment. Glad they're being abandoned!
MrTimy06 not really! There is a forrest created in The middle of the desert in Israel and It helps The environment dramatically
I believe most of Arizona's water comes from lake mead, and it's lower than it's ever been without much hope of it ever filling up again.
@@pilotjonas8 not analogous
@vachief I've heard good things about charter schools.
@vachief They are privately run, but they are still paid for by taxes, as of now the kids have to qualify, they are just using them to separate the kids that really want to learn from the rest.
Interesting, little mention of the cost and ecological implication of these courses - especially, since it's located in such an arid zone.
Yes! My thoughts exactly! Not only things like water waste (and I’ve never really seen animals on courses), but pesticides too. I didn’t even know they used pesticides on golf courses until recently.
@@user-pe2yx9kt4e Depends on the location but many golf course actually thrive with wildlife.
@@user-pe2yx9kt4e Most, if not all courses out there use reclaimed water.
@@user-pe2yx9kt4e Getting rid of every golf course wouldn't even put a dent in the water issue in the southwest. The biggest user of water is agriculture, and it's not even close.
Cities & states should buy the courses up for cheap and turn them into parks. It'd be far better for real estate.
I agree. An old private golf course that closed in my city became prime real estate.
Ian Henderson just imagine what kind of beautiful park you can make with that vista and that space. Add a bunch of courts and rent those out and it’ll definitely be much more profitable.
Affordable housing!
boy I wish I could use my town's taxes to pay for my hobbies!
macrossactual cities invest in supporting all types of sports with facilities; baseball, soccer, football etc
What hobbies do you have?
That’s a private course
@@alfredoalcantar8691 lol yeah until it stopped turning a profit & had to be subsidized by local taxes... see timestamp 4:15
Start golfing and you can!
This is about the most first world problem I've ever heard of.
Absolutely, right, in a desert you want to keep pumping water and chemicals so that grass stays green! Don't worry about the chemicals, they'll show up in the groundwater. Makes total sense.
Listen I love golf and it has seen a resurgence due to recent events but is anyone really surprised golf courses constructed in a literal desert are having trouble staying financial solvent? Golf is an incredible sport but we've got to recognize maintaining that much grass puts strain on the water supply and is a relative waste of habitable land
Wall Street Journal Should Update this story.
Golf: a sport dying along with it's core demographic
Hahaha
Roman Chyshkevych: a brain dying along with it's core intelligence
@@larrytits they don't even know how to use a computer
Hope it gets eradicated.
@@RChyshkevych to be fair... they have email addresses. Granted they all still end in “@aol.com”, but they have had contact with the tubes before
I like playing golf on nintendo switch ⛳️🏌🏻♂️
Good. Now replace the trees they ripped down
Golf courses and cemetaries are the biggest wastes of prime real estate.
People pay money to play golf. People do not pay money to go to parks. You still have to mow the grass and care for it. At least some of that money is recouped by golf. Zero of that money is recouped by a park. A park will, in fact, lose more money for the town.
Maybe golf is dying in certain parts of America but not Columbus Ohio. 4 years ago you could get on just about anywhere and play. Now every non-private course is packed almost every day of the week
Same in NC.
Cause no one wants to waste money like boomers did
imawesome 1260 and nothing’s more annoying than playing in front of a group of boomers.
What a ridiculous statement, think that through.
@@Mistro07 He was talking about boomers wasting money playing golf, the way I look at it, most of those guys worked hard, and saved and invested their money so when they retired they could play golf or whatever else they want to do with the money they saved over their lifetime.
I don't know what the hell's going on with the government, conservatives used to be against spending, now both sides want to spend like there's no tomorrow, the last tax cuts that helped billionaires make more billions were criminal.
Didn’t waste it. They enjoyed it. Can’t take it with you.😐
Lot of truth in that statement. I have to have conversations with my parents more and more frequently on whether or not that they really need to buy that new thing or not. My friends are seeing similar trends too. The materialistic mindset is rooted deep in that generation. (For context - I'm 26, parents are 61)
Meanwhile, the golf course in my city is always full of young kids and teenagers golfing.
That’s wonderful to hear! What city?
Yikes..
It's sad alot of people won't give golf a try. It's truly the most fun and challenging sports I've picked up. Nothing quite feels like hitting a 300+ yard drive I would maybe compare it to hitting a home run on a major league field. PURE JOY
Keun Pruitt I agree. It’s the best game period.
@@sundog7094 best game? Seriously? Best at wasting space for sure.
x_x muck off you knob
BOrrrrriiinnnnnngggg
And nothing more infuriating than duffing your next approach shot!!!
ah yes, oro valley, arizona. in the middle of the desert. sure makes me want to waste massive amounts of water resources on golf courses.
This doesn't answer what happens to courses that have actually been abandoned.
My main issue is that they use an obscene amount of water, I don't whether it's clean water or waste water they use.
The issue is not the courses themselves.. its the massively inflated cost of memberships at courses in recent years.
1:46 "why would you abandon this?" There are several reasons. Golf is one of the most wasteful sports concerning the consumption of resources, it also is one of the most engineered sports known to man which makes it difficult to convert the land for alternate uses and it takes much longer for Nature to reclaim it. It's not worth putting money into something that is NOT a sustainable sport. It costs a tremendous amount of cash in upkeep and maintenance alone. Golf also takes a lot of out of a person. Playing Golf is a desert is exhausting.
If you have nothing to do, you can go play golf.
@vachief I know it, but I have to study, work, help my family. Golf is created for people who are not tied with everyday lufe routine.
@vachief I am glad to hear that. I am not from the US, in my country it is considered a kind of sport for rich...
Turn it into a godamn public park. Irrigation already built into the systems, bathrooms likely in place. It’s literally a seamless transition
my daughter and son in law lived on an abandoned course. it was horribly mis managed and was not located in an area that would financially support the course. the course was a selling point for the surrounding neighborhood. they built and sold as many lots/ houses as they could which is only about 25% of the available lots. after about 10 years the course tanked and now the selling point of the neighborhood is defaulted. good luck trying to sell.
Turn it into to agricultural land and tree reserves.
Joshua Adi they make nice pasture farms I know of two little that
Apparently a lot are being redeveloped into housing complexes or storage lots :( it’s just sick
I totally agree though
Just let them go to waste. Man, it’s one on Dunham Rd, Garfield Hts Ohio that was my favorite. Crazy.
Well, that being said, right now the golf business is booming, COVID keeping people at home plus a good economy, more and more people joining private clubs, dues are increasing.
A Jack Nicklaus designed course in Clifton, TN closed down over 10 years ago. Beautiful landscaping with a local airport adjacent to it.
There's alot of homeless in Cali. Maybe you could do something about that...
Nah the Homeless can still be profited off of so capitalists have no reason to actually help them.
What did you do about it?
@@mscislawin
I give the homeless in my area giftcards to restaurants.
This however will often make them upset because they ask for cash... for you know...
@@alecnolastname4362 it was a question to @Chichan
Caddies.
They make nice pasture farms with paved paths for feeding hay in winter
My grandpa called golf "cow pasture pool."
Disc golf is way better than regular golf. George Carlin did a skit on golf courses. But I think leaving them as green spaces is the best solution when they do close down.
good thing golf is super popular again
imagine what stresses you out is the uncertainty of you own backyard golf course...
Turn them into giant mini golf courses. Duh.
Not 100 percent sure but I think giant mini golf is called golf🤪🤣🤣
The best thing that’s ever happened to that sport is Top Golf
The maintenance on a golf course is insane. The costs are crazy. I worked on a beautiful dual course here in Kissimmee fla. I did mowing, bunkers weedwacking etc. we had 20 workers on each course. We made $10 hour. Each course used 500 gallons of gasoline per week, at (2012 prices, $3.20 a gal) if a $40,000 fairway mower didn’t break a part, say a clutch for $1200 that week.parts for all the mowers, real expensive, sand trap machines, rough mowers, greens mowers, weed eaters all the seeds, chemicals turf stuff, shovels etc. all machines need small engine mechanics who don’t work for $10 an hour. Each course needs flags, cups, ball washers , soap drinking water, and a dozen other things. Then there are the golf carts, whether electric or four strokes need massive maintenance constantly. I could go on and on. People complain about $12 greens fees. It’s getting impossible to turn a profit. The expenses are just too much today...the hoa and taxes pay for a lot of the expenses and a lot of people are not happy about it. A nice course here in south Florida just closed, lekerika, been there since 1923. Developers are knocking on the door to build more dollar generals. Sad
Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this info :)
Ugh, Dollar Generals? That’s disgusting, especially for a course that old. They should just let the land be. Doesn’t even need to be a park (an official one at least) as far as I’m concerned, with fees and unnecessary infrastructure, but I guess they would want to suck money out of it however they could. Also, Dollar General sucks. False advertising in my opinion. Dollar Trees > Dollar Generals
Wish they could just let the land be or use it for agriculture (community garden/pasture?) or something. Wonder if they’d hike taxes to do that...
they shouldve closed down half in favor of building a park. much more versatile better use of the land. stubborn fogies
Thank God plebeian opinions don't matter, otherwise, the whole country would have been turned into a big commie block.
@@1N73RC3P7OR thank science, christians opinions dont matter cuz theyre idiots
this aged like milk and the fact that these places are shutting down is good. now lets actually reclaim them.
Sounds like the right choice... homeowners want to live on a golf course or community and players want to play... so pay your fair share to keep it. Don't ask the entire county at large to help pay for your luxury lifestyle choice.
Home owners and members agreed to pay more too so sounds like its a win
"Disc" golf is growing very fast. Turn it into a disc golf club and make it cheap to play there. Let the members take care of the property if they love being members so much
All the golf courses are becoming large subdivisions and shopping complexes in my area!
Ew that sucks
In 2021 Rancho Vistoso Golf Course, at the north end of Oro Valley was purchased by a conservation fund as a permanent open space.
I am 13 and play golf A lot
44,000 people, 7 courses. Need we say more?
Most golf courses can survive lean times if they conserve water and simply downgrade to a Single line irrigation system, water the tee boxes only, eliminate fairway irrigation on par 3's, and start the fairway irrigation on par 4's and par 5's one hundred yards from the tee boxes. Kinda the Anti-Augusta National.
Click bait...No abandoned golf courses were covered in this story.
why do people waste so much water to maintain golf courses in a dessert? Golf courses that don't even have enough usage 😡
Abandoned golf courses
2020: HOLD MY ...
NEVER,EVER buy a lot or property along side a golf course. I learned that lesson the hard way.
Broken windows?
It's a global problem. Letham Grange in Scotland ( 3 miles from my house) closed for good last week after being run by members for the past year but they just couldn't sustain it anymore
Ok so let me get this straight. The people who want the course for themselves are going to pay more for it's upkeep?
However the vast national golfer volume is decreasing steadily.
So let's golf clap for having lots of money to buy your fun!
We had a small course walking distance from our home. It is now redeveloped into high density ugly condos. The course owners made a good profit, I hope.
Yuck :( they could at least use the land for farming or something
I don't play it because I didn't grow up with it. Millennials grew up during the video game, and early cell phone era. Parents bought that for their kids, and that's what we like to do. You grew up with golf? Great, now you're 50 still playing. Same concept. But if you don't actually do those things with your kids, and push them towards that stuff, they won't grow into it as an adult. Granted, they might not even if you do push them towards it, but chances are way better.
Oh, there is no golf issue....there are tons of courses where I live in Chester county PA and I'll tell you, tee times are ALMOST ALWAYS booked up
The worst course is in Wayne New Jersey the packanack course which is 9 holes and a dump.
Sure why not have the tax payers for the golf course hahaha what a joke.
The first issue is Private members. Make it available to the Public at reasonable prices and then you will get more. I live in Perth Western Australia, and every Private Course has public days and the prices are reasonable enough to afford for most people. And the public course near me has 27 holes, charges $35 for 18 and is full all the time. Very hard to get on and very profitable. Also 7 Golf Courses in a place with 44,000 people is way too many. 3 would be enough if they are 27 and 36 holes. They need to start thinking outside of the box. As said, the course near me, also has mini golf, and that is always busy with families, plus a very nice Bar and Restaurant. All making money. Now 4 other course here have done the same and are reaping the benefits. Also, have decent driving ranges that can cater for a large group of people, practice greens for putting and chipping. That will always attract people, who then have a drink afterwards, and that is more money going in.
I don't like golf, but the courses are good for fires and floods. They serve an important part of infrastructure in many places.
What I have seen in our area is lack of knowledge on how to run there courses that is why the go out of business
they wind up as PG&E storage yards... a total blight on the local neighborhood....
No we don't have any water in Arizona.
Another issue that affects the industry... owners and companies that own courses who should not. I worked for a company that owned or leased the management rights to eight course. They ran all of them into the ground, used revenue from some of the courses to keep a premier course with wealthy members green. That company went bankrupt, with a reputation that was the laughing stock of the other courses in the area.
Park with community garden!
Answer: Do both.
Redevelop the not green areas into suburbs
The green areas will be an amenity for normal people
Adding more houses is probably something the people living around the golf course wouldnt vote for
I was so confused about this video until I realized it was made before Covid. Golf is nuts right now.
They turn into Disc Golf Courses 🥏🏌🏼♂️💚
If golf clubs didn't cost a small fortune, more people might play it, Someone stole all my clubs, and I have never been able to replace them :(
Where did this video address the question of "what happens to abandoned golf courses"?
Mike sounds like he does a good Gerald Ford impression
Glad to know i'm not the only millennial who's bad at golf!
Golf schmolf- What About the Water use? In the desert I mean, I don't care about that in places that aren't in a 1200 year drought.
They get turned into Disc Golf courses...🤘🏼
Plant Trees!
Affordable housing!
Free golf
We won’t mind some of these golf courses coming to Canada
The houses are too close to the fairway. Re-invest and turn it into 36-54 hole, Par 3 courses.
You're welcome.
The funny thing is- Covid completely changed golf forever. Tee times are harder to come by than ever because during the pandemic it was one of the few activities you could do as a group and the youth of the country became obsessed with it
You haven’t really told us what happens to abandoned golf courses though.
It also doesn’t reflect what’s happening in my city of Overland Park, KS. The muny down the street is packed almost every day of the week. People, young and old, are out on the golf course daily.
This video should just highlight the supply and demand. Yes, it will ebb and flow.
Its a pretty pathetic problem.
A golf course is a treasure? Lol no its a polluted piece of land
FirstWorldProblems.....
Man that’s a lot of water being used. Lol
Enter Covid, 2020..... A trend can quickly change.
Old golfers are dying off and no new generation... go figure.
Golf is lame.
Golf is dying just like its demographics
Fast forward to 2021 and the Conquistador is heavily in the black!
The golf course behind my house closed last year. The owner stopped watering and cutting the grass. Now it is covered with weeds and is an eyesore. A few volunteers have cut the weeds, but not the entire course. Trees have been planted, but homeowners want the weeds cut on a regular basis. They have petitioned the county to make it a law.
@peter barlow That would be trespass on private property