NEVER Record With Rimshots?
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2021
- Have you ever been told to never record while playing rimshots? This common recording tip has always bugged me for several reasons. Today we're talking about recording with rimshots conceptually, then putting it to the test to see what kind of difference it really makes.
Demo at: 2:50
Song: song.link/us/i/1532192384
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DW Collector's Series Santa Monica drums
Ludwig 6.5x14 Black Beauty
Meinl Byzance cymbals
Shure SM57 (snare top/bottom)
AKG 414 XLS (overheads)
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I used to play rimshots all the time.
Then a drummer entered my studio playing center... And I loved the sound.
So I decided to try "center hitting" myself, and... I think I'm gonna be more "center hitting" from now on
The thing that really stands out to me is not only how strong the attack of the rimshot is on the close mics, but also how strong it is in the ambient mics. Having an extremely present snare in the OH and room mics is super critical in rock and metal genres as the kick and snare really drive the music, so its no surprise that drummers of these bands do that in the studio.
100% right! It's extremely noticeable in the waveforms as well.
Great comparison! Rimshot for me (at least in "loud" genres) because
1. Lower cymbal bleed so u can boost treble on snare mic Much further
2. Higher volume snare in room mics
3. Even if hit easily with rimshots u can have much more consistent sound
Informative and very useful comparison. Thanks for this.
Another typically great video inspection, Cole! Since you asked for thoughts, mine are that much like the choice of the snare itself, trying out each technique and listening in the booth afterward as well as looking at the wave forms, will tell me whether I should play on the head or with rim shots. I haven't found any substitute for running both the snare and the two techniques up the flagpole to see how they sound under that variables of mics, room and song. Sometimes, I've chosen one technique for the verses and another for the choruses. And on a few occasions, I've actually put up a different snare entirely after the main "keeper" take and punched in to the choruses with an entirely different snare. Or vice versa.
You also mentioned the choice of burying the beater or playing off the bass drum head. After getting my main set from our mutual friend Jerry Garcia, the set was SO resonant, that I changed to playing off the head almost ALL the time. I can still bury it when I want as that technique takes far less skill, but I at least have it in my toolkit for when I prefer that sound which is 90% of the time. And I can control any possible "slap back" MUCH better with that technique as well. I even use the Dixson Bass Drum lift which I find allows the shell to really resonate to its fullest AND allows me the opportunity to place the beater in the most optimum impact point on the head too. And my bass drum pedals attach to the lifter and not the rim of the bass drum which I like both for it's being able to keep my rims from getting gouged by my pedal clamp and because the bass drum can be suspended up on the lifter and the front spurs with no ground muffling. Anyway, my two cents. Thanks again for another great video and keep em coming, my friend!
Great insight as usual Stephen! Thanks so much for the comment and thoughts. I feel like an entire video, or series of videos, could look into the idea of more or less resonance and what's optimal for each situation. We're definitely conditioned (or at least I am) as drummers to believe that more is always better, but once you get under the mics many engineers push in the opposite direction. I think, like you underscored, context is key (which basically ends up being my conclusion in every video 😅). Good to hear from you Stephen, hope to see you in the shop soon!
Great video! To me the main difference is that I only concentrate on hitting the rimshots perfectly, which may leave my mind totally stiff 🤷♂️ And so all of the rest is definitely far away from being in some kind of flow. Am I the only one feeling like that?
No happens to me too. We have to get more used to hitting rim shots I guess.
Learning to make rimshots consistent is a huge challenge. When I decided to incorporate them into my playing it felt like I started to learn the drums from scratch again-it felt debilitating. But you do get used to it and the drums will feel natural again! It is worth it for sure. The difference between my ghost notes and attacks and the tone of my snare now is miles and miles above what they used to be without rimshots. Totally worth it, the work will pay off.
I used to be like this. I played a lot more laid back simply because the snare was my only focus. I think what helped a lot is practicing rudiments with accents. Once I REALLY got good with accents on a pad, it helped translate over to rimshots. Just make sure when you practice accents on the pad, you're adding the arm movement in as well, not just higher stick height with the wrist alone.
Rimshots are all we engineers want. The sound is indeed much better along with signal to noise/bleed ratio.
Something that is hard to capture in recording and even in these side-by-sides is just how massive the difference between rimshots and no rimshots is in person. In recordings, even what differences you are able to hear do not do justice to the change in tonality that you can hear live. In my opinion, the snare may as well be a completely different instrument when you play rimshots on it. It's really really hard to capture with microphones but once you hear it in person you can't unhear it. As a drummer who doesn't record I really have no opinion on the discussion at hand but when it comes to live performance there is NO CONTEST. Rimshots make the snare sing and they make my soul come alive 🤤
The difference in the mix wasn't as huge as I would have expected. It's nice that you get lower cymbal bleed in the rim shot close mic since snare is so much louder, and that can be really important. I play almost all rim shots because I like the sound it makes in the room, I like the way it feels and it makes the snare much louder in a live environment where acoustic sounds are a big part of what the audience hears.
Never thought I’d say this, but I like the rim shot take a lot better because it more a three-dimensional sounds more attitude, good job. Note, I removed the rim on my snare drum hoop. I ground it off leaving only half of the rim intact so I could do side sticks. I sometimes simply hit the edge of the shell to get a brighter sound from the snare. I haven’t noticed any damage to the shell yet, been about six months and a couple head changes.
Never thought I’d say this, but I like the no rimshot take a lot better.
Nice! You know I think despite what I said in the video I actually felt the same as you and used no rimshots in the original recording.
I almost always record with rimshots and it’s amazing. For an aggressive track, pound the snot out of the drums and don’t destroy cymbals.. you’ll have amazing recordings
The Grohl philosophy! Hard to argue with the results.
@@ColeParamore 110%!! 😃👌🏼👌🏼 yet another great video my friend 🙌🏼
I tilt the front of my snare up if I want to avoid rimshots and keep it flat if I want rimshots. I know this might not be ideal during a performance or show. The goal is to develop your technique regardless of the snare angle.
It's a tradeoff. Rims have cooler overtones, so they cut through the mix better in these. More a radio friendly sound. BUT - no rims = more beef. Rims don't have the beef unless you use back of sticks. For sure, never do rimshots when recording dry 70s funk. In fact, those are best played quiet as can be, too. Then cranked up later in the mix. All the body and beef + volume = creamed jeans
Totally agreed on all points.
I liked both about the same. But moral of the story - if it sounds good to your ears, it can and should be able to be captured by a microphone.
Truth!
What feels better than a rimshot?
(Let’s hear your best answers!)
serotonin
🤝🤝🤝
I hear less cymbal bleed into the snare mic with rimshots…
Good point!
I’m pro rimshot
Lmao! Title is the dumbest advise EVER