Ultimate Voiceprint Deep Dive (For Violin/Fiddle and Cello Players)
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2021
- The Voiceprint DI Review all Violin, Viola, and cello players have been waiting for!
This deep-dive review with Megan on Violin and Jacob on cello includes:
Unboxing and feature overview, a real-time violin training session using multiple testing protocols, and a full-blown comparison to The Voicprints competitors namely the Tonedexter and The VSound 2).
Hear the truth for yourself and get the Real-Real from THE BOWED STRING IR EXPERTS.
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Fantastic job! Thank you so much! This type of content is really unique.
Fantastic review, as always.
thanks guys! #weluvEVS!
Thanks for the great review; a bypass would be nice. It's odd because most stomp boxes have a bypass. I have a TD, but found it a ton of work to record the IR, and didn't feel it did that much. For the slight sliver of better sound that likely gets lost in a mix anyway; I'll go with the convenience.
Since I play electric violin, I sent LR Baggs an email yesterday asking them if they plan to have VoicePrint DI support loading 3rd party IRs. For example, IRs created by 3Sigma Audio that have been created using pickups present in my electric violins (e.g., Fourness Fuse, and Jordan).LR Baggs response was NO. They plan to support only their proprietary VoicePrint format. When I asked the same question to James May of the ToneDexter team, his response was YES. They plan to support 3rd party IRs in the ToneDexter II. But perhaps not in ToneDexter II's first release (Fall 2023).
Len, please check out the new interview with Jon Fields about this... via ToneMatch which is what Baggs uses, means it wouldn't be possible to support 3rd party Irs in this way
Thanks for your comments everyone and hope you enjoy!
Great review. Thanks! I personally preferred the 12-inch prints in both cases. But yeah, there was a funny resonance in all of them. I wonder if that came from the training - specifically the "tap the bridge" phase ; it reminds me of the ringing you get from tapping a violin (which is often absent when tapping a guitar). Given that similarity, I wonder if it has to do with the difference between pickup and mic sensitivity to tapping. I've found when trying to get percussive lines on my Realist RV5e that the pickup is incredibly sensitive to the exact positioning of the tap and what part of my hands or fingers are doing the tapping. I actually get the most "guitar-like" results from tapping the chin-rest. Basically, I wonder if refining the tapping phase would help with the resonance.
we tried on with chopping as well Matthew, but these are good questions, and really correlate to the amount of variability. I piezo bridge pickups are much less sensitive to exact placement, but unless you had an impulse hammer that delivered exact blows it would be hard to repeat an exact strike anyway. The Chinrest is a great idea and we will give that a try~ The ringing was also present in other boxes (check out our VSound playthroughs, so it could also just be an inherent limitation in the technology as well.
When I first got my TD I was happy with the sound, but after looping some phrases and listening to the playback, I'm a bit underwhelmed. Still a bit piezo-y although still much better than raw pickup. If the TD could reproduce what the mic hears then I would be in amplified utopia. I've also noticed that my best TD IR maps were captured using the Realist pickup, then switching to my Kremona for performance using the Realist IR image. Similar experience with guitar pickups. I like what I'm hearing from the Voiceprint DI. Think I'm gonna try one soon.
Any oppinion between the VPDI and TD? For someone that already have nice microophones, I could go with both of them! Thank you!
Rodrigo, It really depends on so many factors. Ease of use? LR Baggs Feature Set: TD Sound depends on many factors including the type of pickup you use. Hard to make a definitive statement here.
You can make a second wavemap that acts as a boost switch and will work well if you only have two wavemaps.
Fantastic ideea! Or if you just save the same one with a different/boosted EQ in the adjacent slot.
Was thinking the same thing. Also, to the point about the "voiceprint bypass" you could probably do that same thing by changing the blend ratio on one of the presets if I'm not mistaken.
The app is unbelievably user-friendly and useful! Too bad I'm on Android, so a deal-breaker for me.
For cello the 8 inches Bass F, to me sounded slightly better than the rest. Alternate training distorted the bass tones. Treble F too thin. The 12 inches looses character (same for violin), I prefered close mic training.
Missed the pizz. and chop test though! Overall it does improve the sound...sort of... As mentioned, amplified cellos just don't sound right with current tech.
Maybe, for now, we should think about finding a completely "new" sound, treating the cello as an electric guitar (or synth) and abandoning (temporarily) the pursue for the "acoustic tone".
IT really depends. Mics and blending can still work in many situations, but with a loud band, a natural acoustic tone wouldn't even be useful. Check out Jacob's Effects masterclass on thePickuptest.com It's the best video we've seen on this topic!
Point of clarification, please:
In a live setting, does the iPhone have to be set up on the performance stage during live performance? I see the phone placed while she plays. This is the cause for my concern.
no it does not. It is just for creating the initial wavemaps.
@@ElectricStringPlayer Thank You for your time & expertise...
Can you upload prerecorded IRs to the Voiceprint? Using the ToneDexter wave maps?
No Giancarlo you can't.
@@ElectricStringPlayer ah, thanks!
Is there a software alternative to these boxes, that works with a Mac?
any DAW will allow you to use IR's... maybe start there?
Hello, thank you for the video! I want to ask Jacob and anyone who feels like sharing experience or acknowledgment, which preamp would work fine with the Softstep 2 Keith Mcmillen with an Ableton as the resource for looper and effects? Thank you :)
Eurico,
The soft step is a midi controller and doesn’t really have anything to do with audio in Ableton or anywhere else . Are you asking about an audio interface for Ableton, or other DAWs?
Thank you for your message! Actually looking for a preamp to use with my soft step for live concerts? So the questions is more about which preamp would you recommend to use with a soft step as my midi controller? Thank you for you patience :)
@@euricomathias MAny tools for this job Eurico... We would recommend you check out the preamp tests and reviews on ThePickuptest.com It's the best and only place to hear for yourself!
Yes I know and that’s why I’m asking directly…it’s a very difficult decision 😅 anyway thank you!
Yes I know and that’s why I’m asking directly…it’s a very difficult decision 😅 anyway thank you!
Would anyone use their smartphone with the built-in microphone to do a proper recording of an instrument? Then why use it to create IRs? You should really try this again with an audio interface and a suitable microphone.
UMMM.... did you actually see the review, Michael? We address all these issues and the unit ONLY works with a smartphone in this case so using another mic isn't an option.
@@ElectricStringPlayer Yes, I've watched it almost twice by now. I notice that you mention the possible future option of using an external microphone at 34:48. Apart from that I see your experiments with different mic positions. Did I miss something? I'm surprised the app doesn't just work with an external audio interface and mic attached to that. At any rate, even if the iPhone mic is the only choice that doesn't make it a good one. You of all people know the importance of the mic and I don't think I need to argue this any further.
Instead, I'll close with a constructive suggestion. Record your cello in parallel with your pickup and your favorite mic into Logic. Then use the Match EQ to find a setting that makes the pickup sound like the mic. Maybe you don't need any of the pedals.
@@MichaelSchuerig Michael, the microphone is being used as a reference measurement device not for it's sonic qualities. As we say in the video this can be counterintuitive and was for us as well, but please compare the results with the other units on the pickuptest and let us know what you think.
@@ElectricStringPlayer Jacob, my argument comes down to this: If you are completely satisfied with the sound you get when recording your instrument through the iPhone built-in mic(s), then everything is fine. In that case it is also perfectly fine to use that mic for calibrating the Voiceprint. Just don't expect a sound that is better than what you would get from the iPhone mic.
If you want to use a better mic, you can already connect an external mic to your iPhone without an audio interface. The "Apple Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter" works for that purpose.
To my ears, none of the pickups I remember listening to on thepickuptest reproduce transients properly. The attack of the tone is considerably softened. Unfortunately, those transients are very important for the characteristic sounds of string instruments. If the pickups don't transduce the transients to begin with, there's nothing an IR unit can do to fix this. These devices are essentially fancy EQs (possibly dynamic EQs in the case of the ToneDexter and its WaveMaps).
I need to correct my earlier claim regarding the iPhone mic. In this application, it is indeed used for measuring not for recording and as such it does not matter how good or bad it sounds. What does matter is that it is known how it sounds, ie what frequency response it has. You would need the IR (yes, indeed) of the iPhone mic and use it to invert the deviations from a flat response.
In order for this to work, the differences between iPhone mics has to be very small, which appears to be the case: signalessence.com/can-you-use-an-iphones-internal-microphone-for-acoustic-testing-and-accurate-recordings/
So, if LR Baggs have indeed tested several iPhone mics, determined their IRs, and use the result to correct for imperfections in the mic, there is a good chance it does work as intended.