Nathan That's exactly what lunchbucket did! He let it be known that it wound him up so they did it all the more. You HAVE to laugh WITH people - exactly what Jordan said. :-)
@hustle hard my g Anything that can be used to insult you. Are you short? Call yourself a midget. Fat? Call yourself lardass. No one can insult you with truths you already embraced
@@SkurtavusGrodolfus But then you continue on even though they acknowledge it, and it shall eat away at them until it explodes (for the fat one, might be literally). Tried and true tested methods from your resident red belt grandmaster troll.
Getting crap and getting teased is cool, and I can deal with it. What I can't stand is when someone has no other gear, or no other way to talk. You can't get serious with them. They're always on show.
I just walked away from a couple of “friends” for doing the exact same thing. They had no off switch. And then they would always cover themselves with the “I was just joking” retort to shield themselves.
I mean if you are ok with people disrespecting you.... People know not to criticize me because they know what happens when they do. Now I don’t have to worry about it at all.
As someone who was in the Army, the Navy and a police officer I can’t overstate how true this is. This video is a good one to share with your kids. This is without a doubt the best way to handle a verbal bully, which in my experience most are verbal. You take his/her power completely away when you poke fun at yourself with whatever verbal cudgel he was berating you with.
Def agree. Sometimes I think the verbal bully crosses a line where you can’t really turn it into a joke. Like, I can sorta see some people doing it but laughing at racist, super demeaning bullying, is harder and at that point I think it’s better to take an active stand against the bully rather than just tolerating it.
Best job I ever had was cutting grass all summer during college. 10-12 hours days, scorching heat, the job is shit, but the camaraderie made it all worth it. We named a guy shit boy because he caught salmonella and had to go to the bathroom about 30 times in 4 days while on the job before figuring out something was wrong! Took it like a champ and laughed about the nickname... good times.
I think the lack of camaraderie in professional life is the biggest reason why people in those jobs feel like life is so hopeless; no real connection to others.
I spent a summer doing landscaping (terrible pay; wonderful camaraderie). It didn't matter that some of the workers were felon's or addicts/recovering addicts. We had fun digging in the dirt.
All the time. They all thought it was dumb of me for going to college and they teased me about it. You'll get made fun of for not knowing how to use a piece of equipment (they'll still show you), they'll tell you you're not digging correctly, etc. Most weren't tactful, but if you listen and do what they say; it's all good, and you can give them crap back.
Gaurav Sharma do they need a hashtag "not everyone"?........They're talking *in general*, not every single case. And I hate to burst your bubble dude, but JBP talked about Willink a year or more ago....that's how I got here.
Applying role-play to your posts ("chuck, chuckle"), you really need to get off the internet. I'm not interested in cybering with you, pal. Go learn how to talk to girls, ey? If they don't call the cops on the spot, you creep.
From my experience, whenever I laughed things off, that same joke would come back again...and again. Like I get it, on one hand you don’t wanna act all insecure and get mad, but laughing it off just gives them permission to keep doing it. I’ve never had legitimate success with just “laughing it off”. In situations where I have been at the receiving end of a joke or something, I still haven’t found the best solution for ending it without coming off as either insecure or passive.
You’re probably not genuinely laughing it off. You’re probably sheepishly laughing it off. If you don’t agree with the insult you’ve received and see where they’re coming from really you’re just laughing it off to try get them to shut up. Think about a person who can really take it and really laugh at insults, they are so disarming and fun to be around.
@@Matt-by3yd Well, so what we assume is, that any insult is acceptable and in no way to be taken serious? Well the problem is, people need boundaries and respect of some sort. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about "having to take it" in the first place. But the more interesting question is: What does it take to be able to take it. What do people lack that can't take it? Or what do they think deep down below that keeps them from coping with it....
I was verbally bullied to various degrees for 11 years throughout which I went to 6 different schools, only in the twelfth year and the sixth school did I suddenly start seeing the humor in it and laughed along. Literally over night, the bullying stopped. I am now 32, and it took this video to really let me see and understand why that ended it. Life's incredible!
That's because the bullies had won, they took your integrity and self-respect and moved on to target a new victim who had yet to submit to their tyranny.
I got bullied in High School, and things like this happened, and you know what? I couldn't take it. But it's not that I didn't have thick skin, it's more that when people disrespect you and taunt you for months on end, you're just done with it.
If someone annoys or bothers you: 1 Confront and tell them to back off firmly and directly. Address their behavior and set boundaries. That works 95% of the time. If bad behavior continues... 2 Fight fire with fire. Pushback and unleash your anger. Get angry and dont be rational. Intense anger will stop them 99% of the time. People wont respect you until you show them you are not a pushover. Temper keeps your enemies at a distance. What does not work against bad behavior: Ignoring Laughing it off Non confronting Excusing it Being rational and nice
I think there's broadly 2 types of bully. The first is kind of group bullying that Jordan was talking about where people are essentially ribbing each other to test their mettle, but also in some sense toughen you up. And a certain amount of that is not just acceptable in a social context, but it's actually good for the person who is getting bullied because it's through hardship that we toughen up, and if you never get tough and face hardships you're barely even a person, there's just nothing to you, it forges character into people. And then there's a second type of bullying which is what happens when an individual is kinda pathological, I was bullied like this as a kid by another kid whose family had fallen apart and his father moved out and his best friend moved away and he was just a little screwed up kid and took delight in making other kids miserable. And that kind of senseless and relentless bullying is very damaging. Obviously the line between the 2 is not always clear or obvious but I think Jordan nailed it when he said if it's 100 people doing it, then the problem is you.
@@MrJimShorts You're kinda messing with the scale of 100 people vs "large groups of people", if it's genuinely 100 people bullying you then it's not very likely they're 100 screwed up psychopaths who like to torment people, odds are the person being bullied is not socially integrating very well and the bullying is to encourage conformity. Sometimes this is if you're too weird, behave inappropriately, dress funny, have really bad BO or whatever. Often times if 100 people are going to bully you over something then it's indicative of a more general social position towards you, and correcting whatever it is will be in your benefit long run.
enigmapublius1 Yup. That helps, but most people cave and lose themselves. Usually it's the ones that seek out challenges with a positive mentality that have high levels of mental and emotional resilience. You've gotta have a "Good" mentality.
enigmapublius1 I don't know how you grew up but I was distinctly middle class and we killed each other in my early twenties. Relentless. You had to be on your toes. What happened to that? I think it built a lot of character. now we got to be careful, right? What a bunch of a snowflake ass pussys.
I am one of those guys who felt like I might've acted similar to lunchbucket. While I would've most certainly understood the joke regarding lunchbucket, the part in the book when they started throwing stones at his helmet was the point where I myself would've flipped, as I saw that as crossing "the line". I most certainly would've thrown a huge rock back at the guy or even punched the guy who did so. I am not great with jokes myself, but I can understand self-deprecating humor and play along. The moment it gets to the level of rocks being thrown, my skin is not that thick.
as soon as words turn into physical abuse is when it stops being a matter of "getting thick skin" and "fun"but if you aren't used to it and you don't immediately show them where the boundaries are they'll keep doing it and push even further next time.. you'd think that kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable anymore
The Kermit comparison was less of an insult and more prophetic of Peterson's role in our lives. He's the guidance we didn't have as children, and he's the frog who alerted us to the toxic water upstream.
And this video proves the difference between Hollywood and reality. The stereotype about tough military guys is that if you tell them a yo mama joke you’ll be creatively killed by a teacup. When in reality it’s not always about retaliation, it’s about holding back and showing self-discipline.
They verbally rip you to shreds, beat you physically, and humiliate you.... when you react - they tell you you're too "thin skinned". Where does one draw the line between regular daily annoyance and abuse?
As a man you're supposed to be able to deliver an appropriate reaction - you should be able to take a joke but also stand up for yourself when need be.
Eugene Murphy don’t allow words to hurt you, any words, ever. They are noises we give meaning too. Decide to give the words used against you no meaning. Unless, they are calling for necessary change. Be wise about it man.
This is probably the first time I haven't agreed with Jordan Peterson. I've worked on construction crews for many years and have seen how tyrannical the hierarchies can become. Much of the reason for new guys quitting suddenly is because the foreman decides he doesn't like him or is threatened by his abilities and wants to shoot him down. Very few guys at the bottom of the hierarchy have the balls to stand up for the new guy and will inevitably side with the higher-ups just because it's safer to do so. Assuming that Lunch Bucket was being unreasonable for not loosening up when being teased is assuming way too much. When an entire group is picking on one guy, and nobody will stand up for him because they have no incentive to do so, of course he's going to feel extremely alone and outnumbered. When you have absolutely no allies it's hard to laugh things off. Trust me, I have been through hell and back many times and the hunger other guys have to filet someone they assume is weaker, is shocking and common. I respect the hell out of the guy for still bringing his lunch bucket that his mom gave him. I think he's awesome and you can be damn sure if I saw the same situation occurring I'd stand up for the guy being ganged up on. I don't care if I hurt my reputation with a bunch of dick-lick cowards anyways.
Peterson is just making a case for when banter can be used in a good way to build comradely, coach each other and separate the weed from the chaff. He's not saying abuse doesn't happens or that corrupt foreman don't exist. I don't know why you would question Petersons observations about lunchbuckets behaviour. He was there doing the work and observing it from up close as he probably observed many new guys come and go. He had one of the worst nicknames himself too, howdy doodle, one look at that puppet tells you more than enough. Seems you're just coming from a place of resentment because you were bullied and feel you have to stand up for everybody else now.
Guaranteed it didn’t start out with everyone ganging up on him. He probably reacted badly to the first joke about the lunch box and the others realized he couldn’t take even the lightest of ribbing so they wanted to get a reaction out of him. He was mentally weak, end of story. You can be the white knight all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that a guy like that probably couldn’t be relied on under pressure.
I beg to differ. I worked in both Carpentry and Welding for 5 and a half years. People would talk shit to me, both playfully and painfully. I would play along with it until I felt disrespected. I had felt disrespected to the point they are trying to hurt to hurt, I would pull the person or people aside and tell them, or I would immediately jump down someone’s throat with a better comeback. Yes it can hurt to get ganged up on. But being able to speak up and back to them (especially multiple at once) shows your not a coward or push over. I was a 17 old kid when I started re-learning Spanish to work with them and learning a couple thousand year old trade. I worked those jobs for years giving shit back to only whoever gave it to me. I also outlasted a lot of older guys who couldn’t deal with how quick witted and strong I had to become. Both of my foreman’s gave me shit and both of them respected me and took me under their wings when I would still show up everyday for years to get ahead, kick-ass and talk shit back to those who challenged me. Again I never did it until it was done to me. That also shows restraint and intelligences. Those men feared to talk to me. But respected what I had to say. “Those who speak less, ultimately have much more to say” -Cruz Almada Yes I quoted myself, because it’s something I would repeat to myself my who life. I don’t speak much but when I do I get an audience. Even when playing older “talk-shit” lobbies in video games I would hold back and take being talked shit to or mute them because it was practice for what really mattered. The way I hold myself to a higher standards than those who try to hold me down. Also being yelled at by Drill Sargents and Older people when young I learned to take it and wait. Wait until they’ve said everything and they have nothing left. Then hit them when they least expect it (not drill sergeants) with drill sergeants you always shut up and speak when told.
This is so spot on. One of my best memories of the military was the non stop crap we gave each other. No matter how shitty the situation, we did it. It made it better. It made the worst situations better. Then you get the person that took it personally. That was like chumming the water. It was all about seeing how they would react in bad situations.
When I transitioned to the office environment about 20 years ago, I really missed the ribbing by all of the great guys in the field. Office people get butt hurt way to easy.
Well initially it would be. But the more you know each other and keep teasing the lines become clear. Also I think what the teasing does is it helps you control your emotions, so that when someone does disrespect you, you dont throw a temper tantrum and end up looking like a 2 year old. You gain the ability to let them know politely that hey you are crossing a line and most people will understand and back off.
Why would you be ok with someone being disrespectful to you? I never made friends by being offensive or rude to someone, and never became friends with someone treating me that way. Teasing between friends, siblings or even partners is one thing, but a bunch of people who don’t even know you? No no and again no. It’s toxic. It’s bullying.
You need to put it in perspective, mate. This is referring to groups accepting a new member. It's a brutal handshake. A test to see if you are what they want. Now you're absolutely right that in some cases its just spright up abuse. But look at it this way, you're joining a team. They were a team before you got there. The lesson is you can either disregard the group riffing(might be a good idea if it's a bad team, let people know its not needed) or you roll with it and give it back just as much. It's a trial of sorts. "Can you deal with how shit this post can be?" Something to keep in mind. They describe it as a test. It's soft punches to see if you can take real ones. Not evey job can get that real, but the social mindset is "I need to be able to trust you if things get nuts. Now can you handle the little version?" There's a difference between hazing and team building. And if you think it's hazing? Build rhe team.
I always tell myself - "if you can't chance it, embrace it" and that has been so helpful. I poke quite a bit and get poked back a lot but people pretty much always stop bothering me if I just embrace it properly
Was in construction for 15 years and got hurt and went into sales for 5 years was pretty good at it and still went back to construction and never really understood why until I heard what JP said about commerie and he is 1000% right I enjoy being in the dirt with the men and making fun of each other all day all lol
“ Take some ribbing with good grace, not sick up to the management too much” and the most important and my favorite...” not have someone else do YOUR JOB!!!” If you look back on the the opportunities missed and the jobs you were fired from, you can look back at those simple traits and find the answer to some(not all) the question you have when you didn’t succeed. Don’t have anyone do “YOUR FREAKING JOB!” Very powerful piece..
This is so awesome and relate-able. I went to an all boys high school. There I learned from day one show strength and take every mean or disrupting comment with a pinch of salt. In our final year every guy was emotionally so tough that when we went to varsity it was hard to make friends because everyone thought that you are trying to insult or offend them. For that I am thankful so many people have tried to insult me or hurt me and I will literally start laughing in their faces and they won't know how to react to that.
@Weevil If you're weak you'll be offended and do something back to "get them back" but I'll most likely flip them back and laugh and go on with my day. Me and my friends go to bars almost every week or 2 and this happens a lot and honestly you'll notice it's the weak men who usually do this and to retaliate makes you an idiot. But if someone is trying to hurt me I'll definitely defend myself and make sure that guy would never want to touch me again.
I've been that "good guy" that tolerated almost everything. And realized it devalue myself So now i have a good understanding on how far i can tolerate how people behave Be a patience man, but take no shit
That last sentence - "A sense of humor, that's a good thing to arm yourself with, because sometimes you just don't have anything other than that." Reminds me of when Tyrion Lannister avoids getting killed by that big gang of warriors. He tries bribing them with promises of family money, but they're aren't having it. They then ask him how he'd like to die, and he responds by saying preferably drunk with a woman's mouth around my cock, and they totally start laughing. Tyrion got out of that one a-okay.
Thanks Jocko and Jordan. That was powerful shit. Too many men can't handle anyone being critical of them. Tears instantly come Hahaha. Myself included. I only got stronger by realising it was no one else's problem but my own. These days people trying to stop bullying are preparing their children to fail at life. Bullying will find its way into their life and their is nothing teachers can do to protect them.
I sat around discussing the subject of why men are so hard on each other especially growing up, with a friend of mine who was in college to become a psychologist. And he wound up writing a very interesting paper on this subject after we had had many many discussions about this. And the basic premise of the answer we came up with was, because as men we are constantly testing one another. Even in the good times. Because we want to know what the people we are surrounding ourselves with are made of. So when the SHTF or we're in a very stressful situation or there's just a lot of pressure. You know how those men around you are going to react. And whether or not they are the type that are going to stand their ground or watch your back or break and run under the strain. I'm sure there are just some abusive dicks in the world. But I have found times in life, that the friends that bust your balls the worst. Are also the kind of friends who will roll with you through anything. Because there's a brothers love in those insults and jokes.
Less than 100 years ago men used to get hurt by bullets in a world war. Now people get hurt by words. It is shameful, but hopefully more messages like this will be shared.
This is true. The irritation part is so true because I went through that and it can get worse. It resulted into bullying. I use to think people were trying to mock me when I got teased and that's why I got irritated. It's hard taking a joke when you have an anger problem but the more I get older I wish I could of reacted differently to peoples test, hell maybe I could of gotten more friends. The only time u actually fight back is if someone is really trying to psychically hurt you but other then that if it's just humor then just go along with it. It kind of backfires on them using humor lol. It's just a win win overall
This was a great segment. I've often doubted myself about what has caused me to respond to respond to ridicule with humor and wit. I think many men doubt their own masculinity when they use strategies that dont entail asserting dominance in response to every challenge. But looking back being able to disarm challenge with humor and the ironic turnaround was simply a strategically better option. I have been served by this both in close relationships and in the professional environment. And it's nice to see this form of socializing explained.
The thing that always confused me was, I never knew if the violence, threats, attacks and insults on work would escalate further. People out there are so serious, you don't know if they're bluffing or if they really mean it. It turns out that they really meant it because I got fired repeatedly. But I would have laughed and jabbed them back if I had known that's the way it worked! I've seen some really good, hard working people get fired because of shitty attitudes by employers.
This whole mentality seems weird and invasive to me. People don’t come to work to be a jester for you, most of the time it’s just to put food on the table for them or their family, not being able to handle that is a boundaries issue with you, not them.
As a tradesman, I call it “earning your stripes”. Got to prove yourself. Seems unrational but as a team you need people you can count on rely on, and they will test to see what your individual strength’s are.
Blue collar collar jobs build camaraderie to a certain point then it gets a little stagnant. Me for example, I enjoy socializing with guys on site but as I got older I grew weary of "teamwork" jobs/roles and preferred more solitary individual jobs where I could be assigned small micro tasks and don't have to be bothered by someone else fucking up and dealing with the cacaphony of bitching outbursts and finger pointing. The thing is, especially in blue collar jobs (construction etc.) one must develop not only thick skin but a lot of tolerance and patience as well because those types of jobs tend to have lots of employees with sketchy pasts such as drug/alcohol abuse problems, anger problems, mental health issues and prison sentences (I've witnessed knives being pulled out as intimidation, skillsaws thrown at people's heads, caught people smoking crack and snorting coke in the lunch trailer during work hours, and a female worker giving head to another male worker in the parkade). Blue collar work is definitely not for introverts or the meek.
Lunch bucket should have found the biggest, brightest, most childish lunch bucket and walked into work with it. Make everyone laugh, laugh himself, and now he's in on the joke. He's made people feel good so now they kinda like him and they can't hurt him with it anymore. Redemption.
Jocko/Echo, I would like to suggest a great book for you to read and do a review on. It's titled 'The Men's Code of Honor' (66 Principles That Make A Man). The author is Dan Stradford. Although it is not a book about war it does have alot of military principles in it. Reading it changed my life and I think it would a positive impact on anyone who is trying to be a better man. Thanks for all your work!
Having a thick skin will bring respect and admiration if your peers and your significant other will also respect you more too because they know they’re not dating a complete sissy!
My boyfriend is one thick-skinned guy. He doesn’t take shit from anyone. It’s amazing to be with somebody like that because that shows he’s strong and has a personality.
This is completely true. I was lunch bucket for years due to a poor school experience. For the first few years of work I was an easily made mark and my friends took every opportunity to rinse me (North East English term) and I tried not to react and of course that was in itself a reaction. It took years of break times when i felt the centre of attention to give me a sense of humor about it and to laugh with them and I was incredibly proud when my reaction were to laugh with people that mocked me and even joined in a bit. My life improved immeasurably. I also feel that if I had learned this lesson much sooner I would have had a much better Territorial Army (The Reserve Army in the UK) experience and missed my chance at that because of a poor initial reception. I did try to re enlist for the TA but got a medical knock back but ownership comes into it here, got to lie on the bed I made there I could have done a lot more. Still can. Hope you're all well
When I was on a long middle school trip (about two weeks) this one kid was just relentlessly giving me shit. Like super nasty stuff. At first I was like "what the hell is this guys problem?" but eventually I just starting doing exactly what you mentioned. I came up with the best comebacks I could think of and eventually starting harassing him unprovoked as well. A week in we were pretty much verbally abusing each other to the point that if any adult heard what we were saying we would have been in deep shit. By the end of the trip we were best friends, and over ten years later we are still super close.
I love Jordan Peterson, 85%-90% of what he says I agree with and the rest I am open to learning if maybe it’s my way of thinking that isn’t optimal, I don’t like the degree of harsh stance he takes here though. I don’t know the exact scenario of Lunch Bucket as I wasn’t there to whiteness or experience it, but from making this degree of example of him it seems to be pulling further down those who don’t have the experience, skill set or moral or at the time inner conviction of someone who may very well be already going through something elsewhere, as much as this is raising up those of us who are ready to use it. From experience, I take a lot of antidepressants and depending on my scale of stability at the time this either somewhat motivates me or instead tears me down, and I am at a comparatively very stable place right now. Back when I was being treated for suicidal depression this would have absolutely destroyed me where even a slightly more inclusive approach to this issue would have given confidence to those who didn’t already have it, those who really need to hear it.
Yeah it’s really not some co-workers business to push you to get “thicker skin”, they don’t know what you’re going through, and what develops thicker skin for most people might just make things worse for someone with past trauma and such. Have some boundaries and recognize that it’s not up to you to bother people until they develop thicker skin in the workplace.
This is perfect! I would like to share a bit of my story, as an underground miner people always ask me how I keep going underground. How am I not scared, truth is I am every day but just enough to pay attention to come home safe, the comrodary is second to none in that environment, I run into miners I have never met but call them brother/sister, were hard on eachother in teasing but only to sift out those who are only there for the money not to be a part of what is a rare type of family. In saying this I believe that when a soldier of any branch of forces comes home and feels alianated by society that help center's should try to get them jobs in a mine, I will never dare compare to combat or anything in that matter but I believe that is the closest you can get to that trust and love for the person beside you in a civilian setting even when you dont know that persons name. Because that's what I believe most soldiers miss and thrive for, and need to re-enter society.
Hi Jocko. Thank you for the content and the content that derives out of it (pun intended, for sure). Anyway, yours truly is located far, far away, at the other side of the pond and then some (Southeastern Europe... yes, indeed... many, many miles)... but, BUT, it feels otherwise. In the recent past I have come across a multitude of videos where you have been interviewed mostly with regards to the fundamentals of a good and solid stance in life, necessary for every individual to cop with the facts of life. And more or less (and then again more for that matter), your attitude and your elaboration got me. Now, recently I have been following, obsessively, Jordan's videos, because his approach gets me too. And one video leading to another, I came across this one. So, two birds with one stone. Yet another video of solid gold content and the decision to subscribe to yours, too. So, my blabbering comes to an end. Take care, be well, go on with your prolific endeavors and thank you for it. Cheers. Giorgos.
My only problem with this is that it might be a slippery slope towards condoning unnecessary bullying. If people are just doing some light teasing, AND THEY CAN ALSO TAKE WHAT THEY DISH OUT, then of course you are probably better off just rolling with the punches, maybe throwing a few jabs back here and there, and moving on while trying to make the best of it. If, on the other hand, you’re being constantly ridiculed for pretty minor things, but you aren’t ever able to defend yourself or get a few of your own jabs in, BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE DISHING IT OUT REFUSE TO TAKE IT WHEN IT’S DONE BACK TO THEM, then I think issues will start to set in, because this is almost starting to become borderline abuse. These people aren’t interested in teasing dialogue to increase group morale. Rather, they are just ganging up on you because they can. This is not good or healthy. Finally, if you are being downright tormented by actual badly- motivated actors, then I believe that the pressure should be put on the bullies to change THEIR behavior, not on YOU to develop “thicker skin”. Yes, having thick skin might be a good way to improve yourself and defend against outside forces. In no way do I argue against that. But at some point, people doing bad things also need to be called out on their behavior. It can’t always be up to the victim(s) to just ‘tough it out’.
You still have no control over your tormentor's behavior. The only control you have is how you take it. Let it destroy you and prevent you from excelling or not give a fuck and plow on. Your choice.
3:20 I dealt with this doing Iron Work. Working with a bunch of youngsters 10 to 15 years younger some ex cons and others from the oil fields. I am a quiet but very observant person. Always a lead role person as I was there . At times my wit was good other times it wasn't. I learned if they are not picking at you they don't really care. You can't have fragile feelings lol. It's all in your head if you let it get to you. Sometimes you have to show your teeth. Discernment is needed. While working on the road traveling the U.S. with these young men I was able to teach them and plant seeds when they came to me one by one in private with their personal problems. They weren't the tough guys as they portrayed while among their peers 🤣 I didn't drink or smoke weed and always exercised and they in return respected that. God always uses me everywhere I go. The last laugh was on them I rolled with it. Showed my teeth when I had to, in a good way without totally zapping out lol. Tis life another great video. The brain is a muscle, use it.
Sometimes its necessary to fight back. If you just stay quiet then youll come off as harmless and an easy target. Stick up to bullies and face your fears.
As someone who was bullied as a kid and was never armed with proper ways to deal with that, I can't agree with this apology of normalized mistreatment - although his explanation of the social motives behind banter does make sense.
Like you Léa Mu Biu, I was picked on quite a bit in my youth. It bothered me terribly, but I've come to understand that this kind of banter isn't really bullying, it's just normal masculine behavior that is meant to be all in good fun. The guy picking on you WANTS you to turn it around on him so he can then laugh at himself (and he welcomes the laughter of his peers too). This is particularly true between men in the building trades. It is just a fellowship exercise when you get down to it. Just another point of view and I hope it gives you something worth considering.
@@aaronsheflin2370 no it isnt you fool. well i mean ok sure, in some cases, but you can usually sense if it is good natured even before the words have been said. if it is malevolent (which it often is) no way in hell do they want you to give back. you make a joke back about them they wont laugh, they will give you a cold stare often combined with a comment like "wtf did you just say bitch?"they view you as beneath them and will not accept that you fire back. youre supposed to lay on the ground and take it, be their stress ball, whatever shit theyve got inside they feel like they have the right to take it out on you for whatever reason. the only thing that will change this is if they feel negative consequences somehow, either from you or from other people.
That was exactly my first job and I loved it, it was Sushi Restaurant and it's true, I started in the lowest position as dishwasher to one of the top sushi chefs, but eventuality things change
Well said. Great conversation because Jocko actually read Jordan's book unlike a lot of the infamous interviews he's been in. When it comes to teasing, I go along with it, I laugh and do teasing of my own. Actually, I learn to live with what I got and I do this by coming up with jokes on myself because it's better than anything else. This is the ultimate practice. Practice on yourself so you can practice with everyone else. Remember, how you treat yourself is how you're able to treat others.
i certainly agree that thick skin is good, but it kind of sounds like they are defending bullying here which i disagree with. i mean its all good if everyone are on the same level and its a give-and-take situation. but when its someone stronger picking on a weaker, and others joining in etc. i dont think that is right at all and i dont think it necessarily creates thicker skin either. teasing is often more than just teasing, it can be an insidious toxic weapon, used to undermine others and it can be very destructive. not to mention that some people are just naturally more sensitive than others, should we just say oh well sucks to be them? sounds to me like they are basically saying that a "lord of the flies"-type scenario is not only natural but good. its easy to pick on others, a lot harder to be kind.
Peterson pointed out numerous times that when you allow people to poke at you some, then it won't get vicious. There is obviously a line. Jocko points in out when he references his book. Once his character made acknowledged the plate face joke, he and the bully became friends. Teasing, if allowed, won't usually escalate into bullying.
I take issue with your idea of "I dislike when the stronger is picking on someone weaker." Cause what's preventing someone who's supposedly weaker than me coming up with something witty and clever? They're afraid? They're not as quick with their words? They're not as creative? They don't have practice? Whatever the case may be, why should that earn them a reprieve or a free pass? If someone is naturally a bit more sensitive, then yeah; sucks to be them. The world is a rough place, and you aren't going to get stronger if people pull punches just because you're sensitive. Get stronger, get a thicker skin, learn to punch back (or at the very least learn to take the hit well enough).
@@mjlover1801" I take issue with your idea of "I dislike when the stronger is picking on someone weaker." Cause what's preventing someone who's supposedly weaker than me coming up with something witty and clever? They're afraid? They're not as quick with their words? They're not as creative? They don't have practice?" could be all of those, or could just be that they dont feel the urge to attack and hurt other people for no reason? im not sure what "why should that earn them a free pass" mean. people should earn the right of not being bullied? "the world is a rough place" is not something written in stone, it doesnt have to be like that if we dont want to. btw the first thing i wrote was "i agree that thick skin is good" perhaps you missed that part. im not sensitive at all myself if someone punched me i would punch back 10 times at hard and keep doing it for weeks if necessary. however since i try to be an honorable man i wouldnt pick on someone weaker just for the hell of it. but i can also see that some people simply do not have it in them to defend themselves, and i dont think they shouldnt have to be cold, hard and mean to survive at least that is my opinion. not only do some people not have that innate ability it can of course also change with situation and physical ability or just being outnumbered by hostiles (its easy to be tough one on one not so easy one against ten). or it can simply be that they dont want to stoop to the bullys level? but it can also quickly escalate or turn into long vendettas spanning over years or even generations in worst case which is very non productive for an organisation, community or society. "sucks to be them" is just a heartless non argument that creates a very evil environment.
This is the perfect description of your traditional blue collar world, to a Tee. 1. Take some ribbing with good grace. 2. Not suck up to the management too badly. 3. Not have other people do your job. AKA - Do your job properly.
Damn, Dr. Peterson is such a great guest. I could listen to you guys chatting for hours. You need to get him back on soon. Maybe a skype to give us advice on coping with social isolation during corona.
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
Be careful what you tolerate because you’re teaching others how to treat you.
Well Said.
Nah, that's weakness. Don't take anything personal.
Nathan That's exactly what lunchbucket did! He let it be known that it wound him up so they did it all the more. You HAVE to laugh WITH people - exactly what Jordan said. :-)
Jordan however defended himself when the reporters attacked him
Snapshot-ing this right now
A man is measured by the amount of truth he is willing to take.
Truth!!! From a retired female union crane operator. Daddy wanted boys.
Well said!
Very well said!👍
i like that one1
@Truthful Chap we all want to believe the truth but the truth is you are just justifying your self or what ever.
"wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you."
Hell yeah
@hustle hard my g Anything that can be used to insult you. Are you short? Call yourself a midget.
Fat? Call yourself lardass.
No one can insult you with truths you already embraced
Tyrion!
And always pay back your debts.
@@SkurtavusGrodolfus But then you continue on even though they acknowledge it, and it shall eat away at them until it explodes (for the fat one, might be literally). Tried and true tested methods from your resident red belt grandmaster troll.
Getting crap and getting teased is cool, and I can deal with it. What I can't stand is when someone has no other gear, or no other way to talk. You can't get serious with them. They're always on show.
Oh yeah we love comedians
I just walked away from a couple of “friends” for doing the exact same thing. They had no off switch. And then they would always cover themselves with the “I was just joking” retort to shield themselves.
Always performing, never living.
My friend circle talks serious in our teasing language your serious and joking at the same time
Which book are they talking about?
Having tough skin means not folding under the pressure of criticism.
Spot on! Beautifully put, great job man!
Or life
I mean if you are ok with people disrespecting you....
People know not to criticize me because they know what happens when they do. Now I don’t have to worry about it at all.
@@philmcrackinnow sounds like a beta😂
@@reyg3626
Whatever you want to call it. People probably disrespect you all the time, but they don’t do it to me. I’d rather be me any day.
"Sometimes sense of humor is a good thing to armor yourself with because that's the only thing you got." Jordan Peterson
"sometimes" ;)
Sometimes the only reason you laugh is because you're either going to laugh or cry. ;oP
not including "sometimes" is a crucial part in your misquoting.
You paraphrase but yeah that's essentially the same words. Got to be careful "directly quoting" when that's not actually what was said though...
It's your Jew jitsu ;)
"Did your Mama pack that lunchbox for you?"
"No... YOUR Mama packed it for me!"
Mom jokes are always the most savage
Snaaaap!
😂 😂 😂
Yep that’s the answer.
There’s no come back from a Mom joke
As someone who was in the Army, the Navy and a police officer I can’t overstate how true this is. This video is a good one to share with your kids. This is without a doubt the best way to handle a verbal bully, which in my experience most are verbal. You take his/her power completely away when you poke fun at yourself with whatever verbal cudgel he was berating you with.
Def agree. Sometimes I think the verbal bully crosses a line where you can’t really turn it into a joke. Like, I can sorta see some people doing it but laughing at racist, super demeaning bullying, is harder and at that point I think it’s better to take an active stand against the bully rather than just tolerating it.
@@Stinger913 Yeah true...Its sad they didnt talk about such situations!
It’s called agree and amplify
This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read
The lack of camaraderie in professional life is definitely unfortunate. I miss college days blue collar co-workers.
Best job I ever had was cutting grass all summer during college. 10-12 hours days, scorching heat, the job is shit, but the camaraderie made it all worth it. We named a guy shit boy because he caught salmonella and had to go to the bathroom about 30 times in 4 days while on the job before figuring out something was wrong! Took it like a champ and laughed about the nickname... good times.
I think the lack of camaraderie in professional life is the biggest reason why people in those jobs feel like life is so hopeless; no real connection to others.
@@acrossdline hahaha that's awesome
@@CE-vd2px so true. Missed the working class days, wouldnt go back though. White collar paycheck fills the belly
My blue collar job includes a toxic gossip culture lol
I spent a summer doing landscaping (terrible pay; wonderful camaraderie). It didn't matter that some of the workers were felon's or addicts/recovering addicts. We had fun digging in the dirt.
and was there bullying/being made fun of?
All the time. They all thought it was dumb of me for going to college and they teased me about it. You'll get made fun of for not knowing how to use a piece of equipment (they'll still show you), they'll tell you you're not digging correctly, etc. Most weren't tactful, but if you listen and do what they say; it's all good, and you can give them crap back.
Sounds like you were the bitch of the group.
are you sure it was landscaping and not actually a chain-gang?
Same here.
"If a hundred people are teasing you about it.. they're probably not wrong"
True.
Gaurav Sharma do they need a hashtag "not everyone"?........They're talking *in general*, not every single case.
And I hate to burst your bubble dude, but JBP talked about Willink a year or more ago....that's how I got here.
Don't tell me what I "need to" when you can't even handle that someone on the internet has a different opinion than you, Andrew Scott. :]
Applying role-play to your posts ("chuck, chuckle"), you really need to get off the internet. I'm not interested in cybering with you, pal. Go learn how to talk to girls, ey? If they don't call the cops on the spot, you creep.
tbh tesla and galileo were fuckin nerds
Or they're a bunch of coward followers.
There's a difference between playful teasing and blatanant disrespect. The latter should never be tolerated. Period.
Those two are the same in the military lol
So do something or quit
Daniel Alejandro everything.
chadgrov yo pussy
@Infantry Gunner Going to war over words is necessary sometimes. No reply necessary.
From my experience, whenever I laughed things off, that same joke would come back again...and again. Like I get it, on one hand you don’t wanna act all insecure and get mad, but laughing it off just gives them permission to keep doing it. I’ve never had legitimate success with just “laughing it off”. In situations where I have been at the receiving end of a joke or something, I still haven’t found the best solution for ending it without coming off as either insecure or passive.
You’re probably not genuinely laughing it off. You’re probably sheepishly laughing it off. If you don’t agree with the insult you’ve received and see where they’re coming from really you’re just laughing it off to try get them to shut up. Think about a person who can really take it and really laugh at insults, they are so disarming and fun to be around.
@Weevil exactly, the hypocrisy
You need to mean it.
If you can't laugh about it, you need to out funny them with a comeback that stings. See it from their perspective.
@@Matt-by3yd Well, so what we assume is, that any insult is acceptable and in no way to be taken serious? Well the problem is, people need boundaries and respect of some sort. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about "having to take it" in the first place. But the more interesting question is: What does it take to be able to take it. What do people lack that can't take it? Or what do they think deep down below that keeps them from coping with it....
Two different veins of manhood on display here.
Very good comment!
Stephen Lode how? Because I don’t understand
Sure. Both men have prowess in their craft that allows for mutual respect while having almost nothing in common but aggression.
Stephen Lode thank for explaining
“Cooking can be dangerous” said JP to bulky army vets 😂
Well then you probably haven't worked in a kitchen before
@@MarkCT42 Knives are obvious. Hot steam does a lot of damage to tissue you won't imagine. Also a water boiler blew up in my face.
@@lordofchaosinc.261 Yea I know Ive worked in a kitchen for a year.😂
He was correct about dishwasher or kitchen porter here in UK. Hardest job I ever did. And I'm 6' 2". Back breaker.
AS filled arms.
I was verbally bullied to various degrees for 11 years throughout which I went to 6 different schools, only in the twelfth year and the sixth school did I suddenly start seeing the humor in it and laughed along.
Literally over night, the bullying stopped.
I am now 32, and it took this video to really let me see and understand why that ended it.
Life's incredible!
That's because the bullies had won, they took your integrity and self-respect and moved on to target a new victim who had yet to submit to their tyranny.
I found that laughing didn't work because when i told the teachers about my bullying the bullies would just say 'he laughs so it mustn't bother him'.
@@tt128556this is a correct response
I got bullied in High School, and things like this happened, and you know what? I couldn't take it. But it's not that I didn't have thick skin, it's more that when people disrespect you and taunt you for months on end, you're just done with it.
If someone annoys or bothers you: 1 Confront and tell them to back off firmly and directly. Address their behavior and set boundaries. That works 95% of the time.
If bad behavior continues...
2 Fight fire with fire. Pushback and unleash your anger. Get angry and dont be rational. Intense anger will stop them 99% of the time.
People wont respect you until you show them you are not a pushover. Temper keeps your enemies at a distance.
What does not work against bad behavior:
Ignoring
Laughing it off
Non confronting
Excusing it
Being rational and nice
People in general need to stop caring so much about what others think- of them or about anything else
It’s really not that easy
@@whoolgather8987 believe me I know. But I worked on it every day until it just became how I am. My life is much better and happier for it.
Taking the piss now and again is fine.
Bullying shouldn't be tolerated though,as its toxic and damaging.
I absolutely agree. It's very important to know the difference
@@goochipoochie Especially when they make fun at you for watching anime
I think there's broadly 2 types of bully. The first is kind of group bullying that Jordan was talking about where people are essentially ribbing each other to test their mettle, but also in some sense toughen you up. And a certain amount of that is not just acceptable in a social context, but it's actually good for the person who is getting bullied because it's through hardship that we toughen up, and if you never get tough and face hardships you're barely even a person, there's just nothing to you, it forges character into people. And then there's a second type of bullying which is what happens when an individual is kinda pathological, I was bullied like this as a kid by another kid whose family had fallen apart and his father moved out and his best friend moved away and he was just a little screwed up kid and took delight in making other kids miserable. And that kind of senseless and relentless bullying is very damaging. Obviously the line between the 2 is not always clear or obvious but I think Jordan nailed it when he said if it's 100 people doing it, then the problem is you.
@@MrJimShorts You're kinda messing with the scale of 100 people vs "large groups of people", if it's genuinely 100 people bullying you then it's not very likely they're 100 screwed up psychopaths who like to torment people, odds are the person being bullied is not socially integrating very well and the bullying is to encourage conformity. Sometimes this is if you're too weird, behave inappropriately, dress funny, have really bad BO or whatever. Often times if 100 people are going to bully you over something then it's indicative of a more general social position towards you, and correcting whatever it is will be in your benefit long run.
in my opinion the best way to develop thick skin is by having a struggle you can´t bail out unless you take it head on
enigmapublius1
Yup. That helps, but most people cave and lose themselves. Usually it's the ones that seek out challenges with a positive mentality that have high levels of mental and emotional resilience. You've gotta have a "Good" mentality.
enigmapublius1 I don't know how you grew up but I was distinctly middle class and we killed each other in my early twenties. Relentless. You had to be on your toes. What happened to that? I think it built a lot of character. now we got to be careful, right? What a bunch of a snowflake ass pussys.
That certainly seems like the most natural way
I am one of those guys who felt like I might've acted similar to lunchbucket. While I would've most certainly understood the joke regarding lunchbucket, the part in the book when they started throwing stones at his helmet was the point where I myself would've flipped, as I saw that as crossing "the line". I most certainly would've thrown a huge rock back at the guy or even punched the guy who did so.
I am not great with jokes myself, but I can understand self-deprecating humor and play along. The moment it gets to the level of rocks being thrown, my skin is not that thick.
as soon as words turn into physical abuse is when it stops being a matter of "getting thick skin" and "fun"but if you aren't used to it and you don't immediately show them where the boundaries are they'll keep doing it and push even further next time..
you'd think that kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable anymore
The Kermit comparison was less of an insult and more prophetic of Peterson's role in our lives. He's the guidance we didn't have as children, and he's the frog who alerted us to the toxic water upstream.
And this video proves the difference between Hollywood and reality. The stereotype about tough military guys is that if you tell them a yo mama joke you’ll be creatively killed by a teacup. When in reality it’s not always about retaliation, it’s about holding back and showing self-discipline.
Sometimes we fought over to mama jokes tho 😂😂
@@pastorhaze9509also my tea cups are fucking nails
"nice lunchbucket"
"thanks your wife made it for me this morning"
*Dead body reported*
2:38 How to be successful:
1. Take some ribbing with good grace
2. Don’t suck up to the management too badly
3. Don’t have other people do your job
They verbally rip you to shreds, beat you physically, and humiliate you.... when you react - they tell you you're too "thin skinned". Where does one draw the line between regular daily annoyance and abuse?
As a man you're supposed to be able to deliver an appropriate reaction - you should be able to take a joke but also stand up for yourself when need be.
Eugene Murphy don’t allow words to hurt you, any words, ever. They are noises we give meaning too. Decide to give the words used against you no meaning. Unless, they are calling for necessary change. Be wise about it man.
Bro he's talking about humorous teasing, if you can't tell the difference then idk what to tell you
John Massingale Are you denying that people can be abusive without physically hurting you? Do you not believe in emotional abuse?
Barely. Imo its kinda weak
This is probably the first time I haven't agreed with Jordan Peterson. I've worked on construction crews for many years and have seen how tyrannical the hierarchies can become. Much of the reason for new guys quitting suddenly is because the foreman decides he doesn't like him or is threatened by his abilities and wants to shoot him down. Very few guys at the bottom of the hierarchy have the balls to stand up for the new guy and will inevitably side with the higher-ups just because it's safer to do so.
Assuming that Lunch Bucket was being unreasonable for not loosening up when being teased is assuming way too much. When an entire group is picking on one guy, and nobody will stand up for him because they have no incentive to do so, of course he's going to feel extremely alone and outnumbered. When you have absolutely no allies it's hard to laugh things off. Trust me, I have been through hell and back many times and the hunger other guys have to filet someone they assume is weaker, is shocking and common.
I respect the hell out of the guy for still bringing his lunch bucket that his mom gave him. I think he's awesome and you can be damn sure if I saw the same situation occurring I'd stand up for the guy being ganged up on. I don't care if I hurt my reputation with a bunch of dick-lick cowards anyways.
FK the hierarchy !Anybody worth his salt will stand up to intimidation ,especially in front of his co workers !
Point well made...when crews are modeled on prison life, they are like prison!
Peterson is just making a case for when banter can be used in a good way to build comradely, coach each other and separate the weed from the chaff.
He's not saying abuse doesn't happens or that corrupt foreman don't exist. I don't know why you would question Petersons observations about lunchbuckets behaviour. He was there doing the work and observing it from up close as he probably observed many new guys come and go. He had one of the worst nicknames himself too, howdy doodle, one look at that puppet tells you more than enough. Seems you're just coming from a place of resentment because you were bullied and feel you have to stand up for everybody else now.
Guaranteed it didn’t start out with everyone ganging up on him. He probably reacted badly to the first joke about the lunch box and the others realized he couldn’t take even the lightest of ribbing so they wanted to get a reaction out of him. He was mentally weak, end of story. You can be the white knight all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that a guy like that probably couldn’t be relied on under pressure.
I beg to differ. I worked in both Carpentry and Welding for 5 and a half years. People would talk shit to me, both playfully and painfully. I would play along with it until I felt disrespected.
I had felt disrespected to the point they are trying to hurt to hurt, I would pull the person or people aside and tell them, or I would immediately jump down someone’s throat with a better comeback. Yes it can hurt to get ganged up on. But being able to speak up and back to them (especially multiple at once) shows your not a coward or push over.
I was a 17 old kid when I started re-learning Spanish to work with them and learning a couple thousand year old trade. I worked those jobs for years giving shit back to only whoever gave it to me. I also outlasted a lot of older guys who couldn’t deal with how quick witted and strong I had to become. Both of my foreman’s gave me shit and both of them respected me and took me under their wings when I would still show up everyday for years to get ahead, kick-ass and talk shit back to those who challenged me.
Again I never did it until it was done to me. That also shows restraint and intelligences. Those men feared to talk to me. But respected what I had to say.
“Those who speak less, ultimately have much more to say” -Cruz Almada
Yes I quoted myself, because it’s something I would repeat to myself my who life. I don’t speak much but when I do I get an audience. Even when playing older “talk-shit” lobbies in video games I would hold back and take being talked shit to or mute them because it was practice for what really mattered. The way I hold myself to a higher standards than those who try to hold me down. Also being yelled at by Drill Sargents and Older people when young I learned to take it and wait. Wait until they’ve said everything and they have nothing left. Then hit them when they least expect it (not drill sergeants) with drill sergeants you always shut up and speak when told.
This is so spot on. One of my best memories of the military was the non stop crap we gave each other. No matter how shitty the situation, we did it. It made it better. It made the worst situations better. Then you get the person that took it personally. That was like chumming the water. It was all about seeing how they would react in bad situations.
It's so good to see JP actually relaxed and having a good time during a podcast/interview
I love these podcasts it's just pure raw truth about life and how to overcome the hurdles it throws at you.
When I transitioned to the office environment about 20 years ago, I really missed the ribbing by all of the great guys in the field. Office people get butt hurt way to easy.
Trouble is, the line between teasing and genuine disrespect is often unclear.
Well initially it would be. But the more you know each other and keep teasing the lines become clear.
Also I think what the teasing does is it helps you control your emotions, so that when someone does disrespect you, you dont throw a temper tantrum and end up looking like a 2 year old. You gain the ability to let them know politely that hey you are crossing a line and most people will understand and back off.
and that is why its important to get skillful at the nuance
@@crabtrap How do you think one begins to understand the nuance?
@@Ryan-Petre the poster above me says it well
@@crabtrap true
Why would you be ok with someone being disrespectful to you? I never made friends by being offensive or rude to someone, and never became friends with someone treating me that way.
Teasing between friends, siblings or even partners is one thing, but a bunch of people who don’t even know you?
No no and again no. It’s toxic. It’s bullying.
You need to put it in perspective, mate. This is referring to groups accepting a new member. It's a brutal handshake. A test to see if you are what they want. Now you're absolutely right that in some cases its just spright up abuse.
But look at it this way, you're joining a team. They were a team before you got there. The lesson is you can either disregard the group riffing(might be a good idea if it's a bad team, let people know its not needed) or you roll with it and give it back just as much. It's a trial of sorts. "Can you deal with how shit this post can be?"
Something to keep in mind. They describe it as a test.
It's soft punches to see if you can take real ones.
Not evey job can get that real, but the social mindset is "I need to be able to trust you if things get nuts. Now can you handle the little version?"
There's a difference between hazing and team building. And if you think it's hazing? Build rhe team.
I always tell myself - "if you can't chance it, embrace it" and that has been so helpful. I poke quite a bit and get poked back a lot but people pretty much always stop bothering me if I just embrace it properly
I’ve been in industrial construction since I was 18. I’m now 40 and I can totally relate to this
Two of the most inspiring human beings together. Great conversation!
Thank you. this video changed my life. I realized I am too thin skinned and it's affecting my relationships.
Was in construction for 15 years and got hurt and went into sales for 5 years was pretty good at it and still went back to construction and never really understood why until I heard what JP said about commerie and he is 1000% right I enjoy being in the dirt with the men and making fun of each other all day all lol
“ Take some ribbing with good grace, not sick up to the management too much” and the most important and my favorite...” not have someone else do YOUR JOB!!!” If you look back on the the opportunities missed and the jobs you were fired from, you can look back at those simple traits and find the answer to some(not all) the question you have when you didn’t succeed. Don’t have anyone do “YOUR FREAKING JOB!” Very powerful piece..
This is so awesome and relate-able. I went to an all boys high school. There I learned from day one show strength and take every mean or disrupting comment with a pinch of salt. In our final year every guy was emotionally so tough that when we went to varsity it was hard to make friends because everyone thought that you are trying to insult or offend them. For that I am thankful so many people have tried to insult me or hurt me and I will literally start laughing in their faces and they won't know how to react to that.
@Weevil If you're weak you'll be offended and do something back to "get them back" but I'll most likely flip them back and laugh and go on with my day. Me and my friends go to bars almost every week or 2 and this happens a lot and honestly you'll notice it's the weak men who usually do this and to retaliate makes you an idiot. But if someone is trying to hurt me I'll definitely defend myself and make sure that guy would never want to touch me again.
when Jordan Peterson said "Oh no" about kermit frog, I lost it HAHAHAHAHAH
As soon as Peterson brought up the Kermit thing, I totally lost it haha. Glad to know he can laugh about it!
5:15 The way he tells the story is very good! He's feelings are spot on
its great to see these men having such a great time
The ribbing and the harshness is an expression of love. I live for it; been called a soup sammich and grinned through it.
Good work, Echo. Keep the video clips coming
I've been that "good guy" that tolerated almost everything. And realized it devalue myself
So now i have a good understanding on how far i can tolerate how people behave
Be a patience man, but take no shit
Jocks and Jordan, that’s a powerhouse conversation right there!🤘
With having a thick skin we also have to have boundaries. And if anyone crosses those boundaries there are going to be severe consequences
"In life, a sense of humour is a good thing to arm yourself with. Because sometimes you really don't have anything else."
That last sentence - "A sense of humor, that's a good thing to arm yourself with, because sometimes you just don't have anything other than that."
Reminds me of when Tyrion Lannister avoids getting killed by that big gang of warriors. He tries bribing them with promises of family money, but they're aren't having it. They then ask him how he'd like to die, and he responds by saying preferably drunk with a woman's mouth around my cock, and they totally start laughing. Tyrion got out of that one a-okay.
SevenRiderAirForce Great Point!
And he gave them "this"
With lipstick
Wow, Jordan Peterson has tremendous insight. I’m learning a major lesson from his advice towards “criticism “
Jocko, thank you for your service!
Thanks Jocko and Jordan. That was powerful shit. Too many men can't handle anyone being critical of them. Tears instantly come Hahaha. Myself included. I only got stronger by realising it was no one else's problem but my own. These days people trying to stop bullying are preparing their children to fail at life. Bullying will find its way into their life and their is nothing teachers can do to protect them.
Jocko Willink is awesome. Wish there were more people like him.
So much value in just under 7 minutes, amazing.
I sat around discussing the subject of why men are so hard on each other especially growing up, with a friend of mine who was in college to become a psychologist. And he wound up writing a very interesting paper on this subject after we had had many many discussions about this. And the basic premise of the answer we came up with was, because as men we are constantly testing one another. Even in the good times. Because we want to know what the people we are surrounding ourselves with are made of. So when the SHTF or we're in a very stressful situation or there's just a lot of pressure. You know how those men around you are going to react. And whether or not they are the type that are going to stand their ground or watch your back or break and run under the strain. I'm sure there are just some abusive dicks in the world. But I have found times in life, that the friends that bust your balls the worst. Are also the kind of friends who will roll with you through anything. Because there's a brothers love in those insults and jokes.
Less than 100 years ago men used to get hurt by bullets in a world war. Now people get hurt by words. It is shameful, but hopefully more messages like this will be shared.
Well said. Like a friend of mine used to say: "What's the point of having a big nose if my friends can't make fun of it."
@@IngCataPower Great attitude.
Love all the videos you do brother!
2 brilliant men. I could listen to these guys all day. Heroes.
'I really sound like kermit' XD
hahaha
This is true. The irritation part is so true because I went through that and it can get worse. It resulted into bullying. I use to think people were trying to mock me when I got teased and that's why I got irritated. It's hard taking a joke when you have an anger problem but the more I get older I wish I could of reacted differently to peoples test, hell maybe I could of gotten more friends. The only time u actually fight back is if someone is really trying to psychically hurt you but other then that if it's just humor then just go along with it. It kind of backfires on them using humor lol. It's just a win win overall
This is by far the most enjoyable and interesting podcast I have encountered.
2 of my favorite people to listen and learn
This was a great segment. I've often doubted myself about what has caused me to respond to respond to ridicule with humor and wit. I think many men doubt their own masculinity when they use strategies that dont entail asserting dominance in response to every challenge. But looking back being able to disarm challenge with humor and the ironic turnaround was simply a strategically better option. I have been served by this both in close relationships and in the professional environment. And it's nice to see this form of socializing explained.
And there is a double standard where men have to prove
their gender and females do not,AKA MAN UP.
HOW MUCH WORK HAS FEMINISM SPENT ON STOPPING THIS?
@@johnthehumanist2333 don't worry, femininity is enforced in women too
The thing that always confused me was, I never knew if the violence, threats, attacks and insults on work would escalate further. People out there are so serious, you don't know if they're bluffing or if they really mean it. It turns out that they really meant it because I got fired repeatedly. But I would have laughed and jabbed them back if I had known that's the way it worked! I've seen some really good, hard working people get fired because of shitty attitudes by employers.
This whole mentality seems weird and invasive to me. People don’t come to work to be a jester for you, most of the time it’s just to put food on the table for them or their family, not being able to handle that is a boundaries issue with you, not them.
GREAT words to end on for a great discussion.
I needed to hear this, thank you.
As a tradesman, I call it “earning your stripes”. Got to prove yourself. Seems unrational but as a team you need people you can count on rely on, and they will test to see what your individual strength’s are.
"A sense of humor, that's a good thing to arm yourself with. Because sometimes you just don't have anything other than that"
Powerful
Awesome conversation!!
Excellent video Jocko !!!
You and Peterson are awesome !!!
Thank you. This is like forgiveness. It's cool to be not so affected.
God bless, Proverbs 31
Blue collar collar jobs build camaraderie to a certain point then it gets a little stagnant. Me for example, I enjoy socializing with guys on site but as I got older I grew weary of "teamwork" jobs/roles and preferred more solitary individual jobs where I could be assigned small micro tasks and don't have to be bothered by someone else fucking up and dealing with the cacaphony of bitching outbursts and finger pointing. The thing is, especially in blue collar jobs (construction etc.) one must develop not only thick skin but a lot of tolerance and patience as well because those types of jobs tend to have lots of employees with sketchy pasts such as drug/alcohol abuse problems, anger problems, mental health issues and prison sentences (I've witnessed knives being pulled out as intimidation, skillsaws thrown at people's heads, caught people smoking crack and snorting coke in the lunch trailer during work hours, and a female worker giving head to another male worker in the parkade). Blue collar work is definitely not for introverts or the meek.
I'm introverted and so far it works pretty well for me to just not be involved in people's drama. If you're quiet, no one bothers you lol
I needed this! Thank you
He's correct about working-class culture, the banter is relentless and highly prized. A rapid fire wit (alongside toughness) usually wins.
Lunch bucket should have found the biggest, brightest, most childish lunch bucket and walked into work with it. Make everyone laugh, laugh himself, and now he's in on the joke. He's made people feel good so now they kinda like him and they can't hurt him with it anymore. Redemption.
100% this
He didn’t have to DO anything but his fucking job!!! Those guys ASSAULTED him!!!
Jocko/Echo,
I would like to suggest a great book for you to read and do a review on. It's titled 'The Men's Code of Honor' (66 Principles That Make A Man). The author is Dan Stradford. Although it is not a book about war it does have alot of military principles in it. Reading it changed my life and I think it would a positive impact on anyone who is trying to be a better man. Thanks for all your work!
Donald Turner ima check this book out
Thanks!
How was the book guys?
"Sometimes you don't have anything other than that."
Awesome.
You are much appreciated, thank you!
Very insightful......good stuff.
Having a thick skin will bring respect and admiration if your peers and your significant other will also respect you more too because they know they’re not dating a complete sissy!
Damn straight
HOTBALLZ look at your comment again and edit it because I am so thrown off by the word "if" in your comment. Did you mean "of"? What? I am confusion.
You described "tough". Nevermind that fighting shit
Your girl will not respect you for taking her shit. Good luck with that
My boyfriend is one thick-skinned guy. He doesn’t take shit from anyone. It’s amazing to be with somebody like that because that shows he’s strong and has a personality.
Those very last words in this video really hit me. That's also what creates such great comedians, and what makes them so important.
This is completely true. I was lunch bucket for years due to a poor school experience. For the first few years of work I was an easily made mark and my friends took every opportunity to rinse me (North East English term) and I tried not to react and of course that was in itself a reaction. It took years of break times when i felt the centre of attention to give me a sense of humor about it and to laugh with them and I was incredibly proud when my reaction were to laugh with people that mocked me and even joined in a bit. My life improved immeasurably. I also feel that if I had learned this lesson much sooner I would have had a much better Territorial Army (The Reserve Army in the UK) experience and missed my chance at that because of a poor initial reception.
I did try to re enlist for the TA but got a medical knock back but ownership comes into it here, got to lie on the bed I made there I could have done a lot more. Still can.
Hope you're all well
When I was on a long middle school trip (about two weeks) this one kid was just relentlessly giving me shit. Like super nasty stuff. At first I was like "what the hell is this guys problem?" but eventually I just starting doing exactly what you mentioned. I came up with the best comebacks I could think of and eventually starting harassing him unprovoked as well. A week in we were pretty much verbally abusing each other to the point that if any adult heard what we were saying we would have been in deep shit. By the end of the trip we were best friends, and over ten years later we are still super close.
I love Jordan Peterson, 85%-90% of what he says I agree with and the rest I am open to learning if maybe it’s my way of thinking that isn’t optimal, I don’t like the degree of harsh stance he takes here though. I don’t know the exact scenario of Lunch Bucket as I wasn’t there to whiteness or experience it, but from making this degree of example of him it seems to be pulling further down those who don’t have the experience, skill set or moral or at the time inner conviction of someone who may very well be already going through something elsewhere, as much as this is raising up those of us who are ready to use it. From experience, I take a lot of antidepressants and depending on my scale of stability at the time this either somewhat motivates me or instead tears me down, and I am at a comparatively very stable place right now. Back when I was being treated for suicidal depression this would have absolutely destroyed me where even a slightly more inclusive approach to this issue would have given confidence to those who didn’t already have it, those who really need to hear it.
Yeah it’s really not some co-workers business to push you to get “thicker skin”, they don’t know what you’re going through, and what develops thicker skin for most people might just make things worse for someone with past trauma and such. Have some boundaries and recognize that it’s not up to you to bother people until they develop thicker skin in the workplace.
This is perfect! I would like to share a bit of my story, as an underground miner people always ask me how I keep going underground. How am I not scared, truth is I am every day but just enough to pay attention to come home safe, the comrodary is second to none in that environment, I run into miners I have never met but call them brother/sister, were hard on eachother in teasing but only to sift out those who are only there for the money not to be a part of what is a rare type of family. In saying this I believe that when a soldier of any branch of forces comes home and feels alianated by society that help center's should try to get them jobs in a mine, I will never dare compare to combat or anything in that matter but I believe that is the closest you can get to that trust and love for the person beside you in a civilian setting even when you dont know that persons name. Because that's what I believe most soldiers miss and thrive for, and need to re-enter society.
Hi Jocko. Thank you for the content and the content that derives out of it (pun intended, for sure). Anyway, yours truly is located far, far away, at the other side of the pond and then some (Southeastern Europe... yes, indeed... many, many miles)... but, BUT, it feels otherwise. In the recent past I have come across a multitude of videos where you have been interviewed mostly with regards to the fundamentals of a good and solid stance in life, necessary for every individual to cop with the facts of life. And more or less (and then again more for that matter), your attitude and your elaboration got me. Now, recently I have been following, obsessively, Jordan's videos, because his approach gets me too. And one video leading to another, I came across this one. So, two birds with one stone. Yet another video of solid gold content and the decision to subscribe to yours, too.
So, my blabbering comes to an end. Take care, be well, go on with your prolific endeavors and thank you for it. Cheers. Giorgos.
My only problem with this is that it might be a slippery slope towards condoning unnecessary bullying.
If people are just doing some light teasing, AND THEY CAN ALSO TAKE WHAT THEY DISH OUT, then of course you are probably better off just rolling with the punches, maybe throwing a few jabs back here and there, and moving on while trying to make the best of it.
If, on the other hand, you’re being constantly ridiculed for pretty minor things, but you aren’t ever able to defend yourself or get a few of your own jabs in, BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE DISHING IT OUT REFUSE TO TAKE IT WHEN IT’S DONE BACK TO THEM, then I think issues will start to set in, because this is almost starting to become borderline abuse. These people aren’t interested in teasing dialogue to increase group morale. Rather, they are just ganging up on you because they can. This is not good or healthy.
Finally, if you are being downright tormented by actual badly- motivated actors, then I believe that the pressure should be put on the bullies to change THEIR behavior, not on YOU to develop “thicker skin”.
Yes, having thick skin might be a good way to improve yourself and defend against outside forces. In no way do I argue against that. But at some point, people doing bad things also need to be called out on their behavior. It can’t always be up to the victim(s) to just ‘tough it out’.
No its up to the victims to stop acting like victims
Man up.
@@daveking9627 so you're illiterate huh?
You still have no control over your tormentor's behavior. The only control you have is how you take it. Let it destroy you and prevent you from excelling or not give a fuck and plow on. Your choice.
3:20 I dealt with this doing Iron Work. Working with a bunch of youngsters 10 to 15 years younger some ex cons and others from the oil fields. I am a quiet but very observant person. Always a lead role person as I was there . At times my wit was good other times it wasn't. I learned if they are not picking at you they don't really care. You can't have fragile feelings lol. It's all in your head if you let it get to you. Sometimes you have to show your teeth. Discernment is needed.
While working on the road traveling the U.S. with these young men I was able to teach them and plant seeds when they came to me one by one in private with their personal problems. They weren't the tough guys as they portrayed while among their peers 🤣
I didn't drink or smoke weed and always exercised and they in return respected that. God always uses me everywhere I go. The last laugh was on them I rolled with it. Showed my teeth when I had to, in a good way without totally zapping out lol. Tis life another great video.
The brain is a muscle, use it.
Sometimes its necessary to fight back. If you just stay quiet then youll come off as harmless and an easy target. Stick up to bullies and face your fears.
Thanks 3 of u
As someone who was bullied as a kid and was never armed with proper ways to deal with that, I can't agree with this apology of normalized mistreatment - although his explanation of the social motives behind banter does make sense.
Like you Léa Mu Biu, I was picked on quite a bit in my youth. It bothered me terribly, but I've come to understand that this kind of banter isn't really bullying, it's just normal masculine behavior that is meant to be all in good fun. The guy picking on you WANTS you to turn it around on him so he can then laugh at himself (and he welcomes the laughter of his peers too). This is particularly true between men in the building trades. It is just a fellowship exercise when you get down to it.
Just another point of view and I hope it gives you something worth considering.
@@aaronsheflin2370 no it isnt you fool. well i mean ok sure, in some cases, but you can usually sense if it is good natured even before the words have been said. if it is malevolent (which it often is) no way in hell do they want you to give back. you make a joke back about them they wont laugh, they will give you a cold stare often combined with a comment like "wtf did you just say bitch?"they view you as beneath them and will not accept that you fire back. youre supposed to lay on the ground and take it, be their stress ball, whatever shit theyve got inside they feel like they have the right to take it out on you for whatever reason. the only thing that will change this is if they feel negative consequences somehow, either from you or from other people.
@@runestone8619 wow! You must know some really mean, nasty people!
@@aaronsheflin2370, I also know plenty of those type off people.
@@runestone8619 wow, personality-wise you're kind of an asshole but i fully agree with you, i couldn't have said it any better myself. Good job.
That was exactly my first job and I loved it, it was Sushi Restaurant and it's true, I started in the lowest position as dishwasher to one of the top sushi chefs, but eventuality things change
To have the combined knowledge of these two would be amazing.
Well said. Great conversation because Jocko actually read Jordan's book unlike a lot of the infamous interviews he's been in. When it comes to teasing, I go along with it, I laugh and do teasing of my own. Actually, I learn to live with what I got and I do this by coming up with jokes on myself because it's better than anything else. This is the ultimate practice. Practice on yourself so you can practice with everyone else. Remember, how you treat yourself is how you're able to treat others.
i certainly agree that thick skin is good, but it kind of sounds like they are defending bullying here which i disagree with. i mean its all good if everyone are on the same level and its a give-and-take situation. but when its someone stronger picking on a weaker, and others joining in etc. i dont think that is right at all and i dont think it necessarily creates thicker skin either. teasing is often more than just teasing, it can be an insidious toxic weapon, used to undermine others and it can be very destructive. not to mention that some people are just naturally more sensitive than others, should we just say oh well sucks to be them? sounds to me like they are basically saying that a "lord of the flies"-type scenario is not only natural but good. its easy to pick on others, a lot harder to be kind.
Peterson pointed out numerous times that when you allow people to poke at you some, then it won't get vicious. There is obviously a line. Jocko points in out when he references his book. Once his character made acknowledged the plate face joke, he and the bully became friends. Teasing, if allowed, won't usually escalate into bullying.
I take issue with your idea of "I dislike when the stronger is picking on someone weaker." Cause what's preventing someone who's supposedly weaker than me coming up with something witty and clever? They're afraid? They're not as quick with their words? They're not as creative? They don't have practice?
Whatever the case may be, why should that earn them a reprieve or a free pass? If someone is naturally a bit more sensitive, then yeah; sucks to be them. The world is a rough place, and you aren't going to get stronger if people pull punches just because you're sensitive. Get stronger, get a thicker skin, learn to punch back (or at the very least learn to take the hit well enough).
@@mjlover1801" I take issue with your idea of "I dislike when the stronger is picking on someone weaker." Cause what's preventing someone who's supposedly weaker than me coming up with something witty and clever? They're afraid? They're not as quick with their words? They're not as creative? They don't have practice?" could be all of those, or could just be that they dont feel the urge to attack and hurt other people for no reason? im not sure what "why should that earn them a free pass" mean. people should earn the right of not being bullied? "the world is a rough place" is not something written in stone, it doesnt have to be like that if we dont want to. btw the first thing i wrote was "i agree that thick skin is good" perhaps you missed that part. im not sensitive at all myself if someone punched me i would punch back 10 times at hard and keep doing it for weeks if necessary. however since i try to be an honorable man i wouldnt pick on someone weaker just for the hell of it.
but i can also see that some people simply do not have it in them to defend themselves, and i dont think they shouldnt have to be cold, hard and mean to survive at least that is my opinion. not only do some people not have that innate ability it can of course also change with situation and physical ability or just being outnumbered by hostiles (its easy to be tough one on one not so easy one against ten). or it can simply be that they dont want to stoop to the bullys level? but it can also quickly escalate or turn into long vendettas spanning over years or even generations in worst case which is very non productive for an organisation, community or society. "sucks to be them" is just a heartless non argument that creates a very evil environment.
This is the perfect description of your traditional blue collar world, to a Tee.
1. Take some ribbing with good grace.
2. Not suck up to the management too badly.
3. Not have other people do your job. AKA - Do your job properly.
Two of my favorite people in the world...
Damn, Dr. Peterson is such a great guest. I could listen to you guys chatting for hours. You need to get him back on soon. Maybe a skype to give us advice on coping with social isolation during corona.