Do you need BIGGER cartridges?

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  • čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
  • With so many cartridges on offer, it's hard to know which one to pick, and which ones to use when, especially when talking about top-of-the-range shells.
    Today we take to the Hull Sovereign Parcours for a test in the field, both on clays and on a pattern plate with top shooter James Bradley Day.
    We recorded this last year, but saved it for now, just to confuse you all!
    EnjoyBecome a channel member today -
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Komentáře • 71

  • @Eric_360
    @Eric_360 Před měsícem +14

    The Jonthorne is back in action.... Or is this the last time we'll ever see it? LOL

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem

      This was filming last July, nice to see it back on screen. Very pretty thing.

  • @jimhooley3846
    @jimhooley3846 Před měsícem +11

    It is always interesting to see how empirical data compares to scientific analysis and theory. Oberfall and Thompson in their seminal work "The mysteries of shotgun Patterns" determined that for every 5 yards, shotgun pattern densities diminish by about 10%. A 70% pattern at 40yds would be a 30%pattern at 60yds. This concurs with my own pattern testing. Yes, you can break targets at 60 and 70 yds, but can you insure 95-100% certainty? This begs the question of how far is too far in a championship tournament? When does the element of luck or chance, introduced as distance increases, supplant skill in determining the outcome?

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem +1

      It’s a great question!
      Target setters do tend to keep things within 60m (which is a very long way when you see a clay out there!)
      I guess this distance is where skill meets the right equipment. I’d say a 60m target showing face would break nearly every time you put the shot cloud on it. As we saw here, it’s when it gets edgy that luck starts to be more of a factor at range.

    • @mannygiapitzakis7778
      @mannygiapitzakis7778 Před měsícem

      The science would not be difficult to determine, particularly from a patterning (minimum pattern density) point of view. Simply calculate the cross section area of a standard edge-on (worse case scenario) target and divide this figure into the cross sectional area of a 30-inch circle. Using this figure, multiply it by whatever number of pellet strikes you feel are required to break that target (ie. 1, 2,, 3, etc) at any given distance. This will finally determine your minimum pellet strike requirement in a 30 inch circle to ensure consistent breaks.

  • @gnarshread
    @gnarshread Před měsícem +2

    Absolutely love the technical information.

    • @carlrendell3521
      @carlrendell3521 Před měsícem

      I thought. The biggest shot size at clays where 7s

  • @Grant_901
    @Grant_901 Před měsícem +1

    Great lesson on shot size. Thanks for sharing

  • @chipworrell6025
    @chipworrell6025 Před 8 dny

    Here in the Carolinas, i've never been on a course that allows larger than 7 1/2 shot rarely more than 1300 FPS. WE have to choke tighter to get more pellets on the long targets.

  • @borisfargo1290
    @borisfargo1290 Před měsícem +2

    Good game load too in fibre 28/6.5

  • @desertratsss
    @desertratsss Před měsícem +5

    At my grounds, 7 1/2 is the largest allowed.

    • @karlsailor
      @karlsailor Před měsícem +2

      US and UK shot sizes are different.
      US #8 = UK #7
      US #7 1/2 = UK #6 1/2

    • @drumhd1
      @drumhd1 Před měsícem

      @@karlsailor Thank you. I’m a Yank and that was the question I was about to ask!

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem +3

      Thanks Karl! Would be easier if we used a nominal diameter measurement instead - would sort out international shot size translation…

    • @mannygiapitzakis7778
      @mannygiapitzakis7778 Před měsícem +1

      Incorrect.
      Uk 6.5 = US 7 (2.5mm, 0.100”)
      UK 7 = US 7.5 (2.4mm, 0.095”)
      UK 7.5 = US 8 (2.3mm, 0.090”)

  • @benjaminwilley3578
    @benjaminwilley3578 Před měsícem

    For most of us, if your on em, your on em. Many moons ago, Sellier & Bellot 32g 6.5 with a plaswaad in a paper case was my go too. For game and clay, because it was all i could afford. Always intresting videos.

  • @markchapman2414
    @markchapman2414 Před měsícem +2

    They certainly break the bank

  • @russhumphries7283
    @russhumphries7283 Před 23 dny

    One wouldn't think that a clay at and a shot string at would not make much difference if the clay was coming towards or away from you. I could do the math but I'm feeling lazy ... lol. However there is nothin like the proof of the pudding.
    Today at Southdown I practiced on a 60 ish yard midi crosser off the tower - comparing breaks with my standard 3/8 choke and 8's with 6.5 and then again tightening up to 3/4's with the same cartridges (Eley Superb 8's and the same Hull 6.5) Overall I had more breaks with 3/8 and the larger pellet and the breaks were more obvious. This is a testiment to my skill levels over the cartridges - at least that's my suspicion. I'm not goo enough to centre them but edge the 6.5 will break better than edgy 8s. This makes sense. Thusly, I shall stick to 3/8 in both barrels and carry some of the boomers for longish stuff.
    Great video as ever. For clarity I'm a 70's x 100 shooter using a K80 with those chokes.
    Being a geek I love the theory side. More of this please sir :)
    Being a countryman I also think that for actual pigeons 6's rock :)

  • @martinsatchell
    @martinsatchell Před 20 dny

    Yet again so informative and very interesting well done

  • @royjennison3916
    @royjennison3916 Před měsícem +2

    GREAT vid well done , could you do a test on 28in ,30in,32in barrels to see if there is any difference in patten and much difference in speed , we all know the shorter barrels will have a little less muzzle velocity but how much .

    • @RobertSmith-qs8yl
      @RobertSmith-qs8yl Před měsícem

      insignificant amount, little round balls are very inefficient projectiles with poor ballistic coefficients, so for the same size small shot regardless of muzzle velocity by the time the shot has travelled around 30yards it will all be traveling at virtually the same terminal velocity give or take just a few feet per second. For
      the faster the muzzle velocity the quicker the shot slows down simple as that, no arguing with the laws of physics.

  • @ddoherty5956
    @ddoherty5956 Před měsícem +2

    Laport break in the box fairly easily though.

  • @dandylion1987
    @dandylion1987 Před měsícem +5

    Yes. 50 Grams of #0 shot is ideal for skeet.

  • @spencerford2608
    @spencerford2608 Před 29 dny +1

    Thats interesting, I thought British 6.5 was equivalent to American 7.5 but those pellets are clearly much larger than our 7.5.

  • @ronaldjohnson1474
    @ronaldjohnson1474 Před měsícem

    Great information. Thanks.

  • @John-uo1qf
    @John-uo1qf Před měsícem +1

    Size matters!

  • @Ben-mh4pj
    @Ben-mh4pj Před měsícem

    Very interesting video once again Johnny well done. Just for the hell of it why don’t you replace the 6.5’s with some nickel or copper plated 4’s and see what that does to a long range target. I think you’ll be amazed what that pellet size will do to a clay down range. Just for the fun and research. I’d never advocate doing that in competition of course!! 😁😁

  • @mannygiapitzakis7778
    @mannygiapitzakis7778 Před měsícem

    I’m not yet convinced on the use of UK #6.5, particularly given its greatly reduced in-shell pellet count in lighter loads and the need of much tighter choke constrictions to make them work. In my view, shotgunning has always been about compromise and finding that optimal balance of pattern density and pellet energy. I find that a 28g load of UK #7.5 (US #8) will cover most target presentations today and that the same load weight in a UK #7 (US #7.5) will adequately cover the longer stuff.

  • @smksg42
    @smksg42 Před měsícem

    Trap I hit best with 36g 6. Using smaller shot does not make sense on 35m+ ranges, the small pellets make only sense on short range. 6 Is quite a good size vis amount of pellets. (especially on eco clays, they are nasty when they was long out of the box, these get soft again).

  • @joegraziano5849
    @joegraziano5849 Před měsícem

    You convinced me. I’m going to buy some 6.5 Sovereigns

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem

      They are the best thing since sliced bread, the price tag is top end but the result is too when needed

  • @budzo100
    @budzo100 Před 28 dny

    Another question to be asked. Is the UK shot, lead? Or steel? I have heard that some course's are moving to Steel shot, which will have a difference in shot performance. Size and steel/lead shot differences are a very real difference. Jonny, what are you using? Steel or lead?

    • @AdamsClayPigeonGuide
      @AdamsClayPigeonGuide Před 14 dny

      We are still lead. The difference is negligible. I recently tried steel cartridges on a looper that would be considered a hard target and the steel broke it no problem at all.

  • @batmantiss
    @batmantiss Před měsícem

    I love a heavier load, because DUST DON'T COUNT!

  • @brianoneill6718
    @brianoneill6718 Před měsícem

    which lens is he wearing?

  • @beeboop1726
    @beeboop1726 Před měsícem +1

    3/4 is IM. Think of it was FULL = 4/4, IM = 3/4, M = 1/2, IC = 1/4.

    • @BrokenBarBox
      @BrokenBarBox Před měsícem

      Thank you! As an American it can be hard to understand the meaning sometimes. Like when they discuss the cartridges in terms of grams, I don’t know what they’re talking about.

    • @beeboop1726
      @beeboop1726 Před měsícem

      @@BrokenBarBox funny enough I never really know what the Americans are talking about when they mention ounce loads. As a rough guide a 1 ounce load is 30grams of shot. My go to game loads are 30grams 6 shot.

    • @BrokenBarBox
      @BrokenBarBox Před měsícem

      @@beeboop1726 now it’s all making sense. Thank you! When I’m hunting Jack rabbits with a 20 gauge I use one ounce of #6, and for pheasant a 12 gauge with 1-1/4 ounce load of 5 or 6 shot

  • @ghillie35
    @ghillie35 Před měsícem +1

    Do hull do the sovereign 6.5 in fibre

    • @borisfargo1290
      @borisfargo1290 Před měsícem

      Yes now they do

    • @ghillie35
      @ghillie35 Před měsícem

      @@borisfargo1290 how come I haven’t seen them
      In the gun shops I dot. Want to look daft asking for them

    • @borisfargo1290
      @borisfargo1290 Před měsícem

      @@ghillie35 I don’t know, ask them to get you them in if they stock Hull.

    • @ghillie35
      @ghillie35 Před měsícem

      @@borisfargo1290 they do stock hull

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem +1

      They discontinued them for a few years, but they came back into production last year. My favourite fibre wad shell

  • @JanePurnell
    @JanePurnell Před měsícem +1

    the technical part of the game..............the expensive part of the game!

  • @manning421
    @manning421 Před měsícem

    Is this what was used in the Olympic skeet?

    • @dylanredmond759
      @dylanredmond759 Před měsícem +1

      Olympic skeet is shot using 9 shot

    • @SkeetsPaintball
      @SkeetsPaintball Před měsícem

      9 Shot and 24g

    • @maximilianmustermann5763
      @maximilianmustermann5763 Před 22 dny +1

      @@SkeetsPaintball The ISSF rules say you can use up to 24 gram (0.5 g tolerance) shot with a maximum pellet diameter of 2.6 mm.
      What is usually sold in Germany as (ISSF) "skeet shot" is 2.0 mm 24 grams. What is sold as (ISSF) "trap shot" is usually 2.4 mm 24 grams. Those seem to be the most popular inside the ISSF trap/skeet world.

    • @SkeetsPaintball
      @SkeetsPaintball Před 22 dny

      @@maximilianmustermann5763
      Yes 2.0mm is #9 Shot in the UK and is what people generally use for all Skeet varieties.
      2.4mm is UK #7 Shot, which I understand trap shooters would use.
      I don't shoot Trap, or Skeet anymore.
      Mainly shoot sporting/compak/FITASC

  • @RobertSmith-qs8yl
    @RobertSmith-qs8yl Před měsícem

    would like to see the video repeated again but with steel shot and biodegradable wads. 😊

  • @bryanfaustino3819
    @bryanfaustino3819 Před měsícem

    Who made the stock on the 694? I like the grip

    • @tgsoutdoors
      @tgsoutdoors  Před měsícem

      I think it started life as a factory stock

  • @ddoherty5956
    @ddoherty5956 Před měsícem

    I need cheaper ones Jonny 😢

    • @SkeetsPaintball
      @SkeetsPaintball Před měsícem +1

      Fiocchi F3 Red, are a UK 7, so not quite as big as a 6.5, but they do hit hard and are cost effective.

    • @ddoherty5956
      @ddoherty5956 Před měsícem

      @@SkeetsPaintball cheers 👍

  • @TheMoodyedge
    @TheMoodyedge Před měsícem

    no

  • @wholeNwon
    @wholeNwon Před měsícem +1

    Were you using biodegradable targets? Seems a shame to litter that beautiful land with shards of fired clay that will last much longer and be toxic, too.

    • @ronaldjohnson1474
      @ronaldjohnson1474 Před měsícem +3

      What part of "clay" don't you understand?

    • @RobertSmith-qs8yl
      @RobertSmith-qs8yl Před měsícem +1

      your forgetting the non biodegradable plastic wads as shown on the video which will be on the ground for hundreds of years the clays degrade in months if not weeks.

    • @AdamsClayPigeonGuide
      @AdamsClayPigeonGuide Před měsícem +1

      Grounds clear up clays and wads regularly, otherwise they would be in a right mess.

    • @wholeNwon
      @wholeNwon Před měsícem

      @@RobertSmith-qs8yl I think only the biodegradable ones do and they can take a long time.

    • @wholeNwon
      @wholeNwon Před měsícem

      @@ronaldjohnson1474 Oh, I think I have a pretty good idea.