We need to talk about the German Car Industry... The EV is KILLING IT.
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- In this video we're looking at a German article about the state of the car industry in Germany.
Audi is in trouble
Porsche is in trouble
Volkswagen is in trouble
BMW is just about hanging on
Chinese demand for European cars is DOWN
European demand for Chinese cars is UP
What's going on with these behemoths of automotive manufacturing?
How have the ALL got it so wrong?
Let's find out.
Turbulente Zeiten für Audi, VW & Co - Aktuelle Herausforderungen in der deutschen Automobilindustrie
www.tichyseinb...
Turbulent times for Audi, VW & Co - current challenges in the German automotive industry
#news #breaking #chinanews #europenews #automotivenews
Other videos in the 'We need to talk about' series...
The New Ford Capri
czcams.com/video/RPSGqI3F-kw/video.html
The new Honda Prelude
czcams.com/video/HIlqTKCu1mA/video.html
The German Automotive Industry
czcams.com/video/foAdF_eGJ_o/video.html
Jaguar’s latest announcement
czcams.com/video/3Blr6mRL20s/video.html
Christine Anderson is apart of the AfD neonazi party, haven't you noticed?
The business schools seem to be preaching 'Sell a product nobody wants, at a price nobody can afford' these days.
I think we are post traditional economics. Own nothing and be happy, while a small elite own it all....
@@barry5138 That's it in a nutshell.
Not worth what it costs to make, that includes houses built for 30k and sold off for 400k, the sooner people stop buying into this bullshit the sooner it will drop apart
If you are part of the narrative then it’s fine. Sales can be at 0 , they keep getting funding to do just that.
A student in 3rd world country who asks if he should go to Germany to study (computer science, social science, etc.), should put the questions:
1). Is German economy a good example? Apart from cars, nothing else is notable: no software engineering, no smartphone, no 5G, no StarLink, no rare earth, no Moon/Mars lander., no quantum computing, no cloud computing... Even machinery is being fierely competed with China's. The lack of cheap energy could lead to deindustrialization... If Germany loses car market to EV, their identity is not much left. Even BASF is reducing operation in Germany while expanding in US and China. Is it a good example for 3rd world country to learn from? (economic, science/tech)
2). Is German's political system a good example? See how Merkel sat idly from 2000-2019, putting Germany at risk in multiple fronts, from dependency of energy, to abandoning nuclear, too no public investment, to bureaucracy, to hesitation to digitalization. Now the Traffic Light alliance is in constant conflicts. The Far Right is gaining pace. Is it a good example for 3rd world to learn from?
If the German car manufacturers stop selling in china - maybe we will see an end to the grotesque oversized front grills
Yes, that's definitely a Chinese fad.
They look like either bugs bunny or beaver teeth. 😂😂
Yes BMW have done it because the Chinese market want huge grills. They look stupid!
@@markchapman1757 I'm sure they eat those over there too.
If the German car manufacturers stop selling in the world largest car market then they will be out of business. They won't have to worry about what their front grills look like.
What ever happened to the old saying "The customer is always right" no problem just go out of business you reap what you sow customers don't want EV's
That was only ever a marketing strapline.
You mean: the customer does not want the German ev? Right? They will go out of business. Everything changes so quick! If you would have told me 3...4 years ago that i would be driving an American car, i would have said You're crazy. Now i drive one. You know what i mean?? You see the picture?
Customers like you are too dumb and think global warming isn't real
@@thedreamfactory6964 American brand or American made?
They don't want a German EV? I'd say most don't want an EV full stop.
Geoff was talking about Chinese EVs, particularly BYD. BYD commonly known as Burn Your Drive!
@@COIcultistPeople busy talking the price down. A used EV is huge value for money.
They dont want us driving
That's of course their goal... They want to ban individual transportation. It's very clear now.
Or moving house near to work.
Ding, ding, ding. Once you understand this, everything makes perfect sense.
This , read the WEF “discussion paper” saying there are not enough resources like lithium, copper etc for both wide scale ev ownership and for the renewable electricity generation sector. It also states private motor vehicles are wasteful, only being used about 8% of the time. So …. The solution, public transport and car sharing for the plebs, of course the elite will be able to afford their own ev.
@@Nicks-qc6tywork will soon be gone !!! U.B.I. Coming soon !!!
Well no shit, German cars used to be all about the engines; BMW straight sixes, Mercedes 6.2 V8s, various 5 and 6 cylinder VAG engines and even the humble TDi engines...
Now that all cars are bland crossover suvs with electric motors and touchscreen everything, why spend £80k on a german ev when you can get a hyundai that looks, sounds and drives the same, and has exactly the same equipment for half the price?
and has a longer warranty!
It's an important point. The electric power train almost completely removes some of the USP for these brands. Like you say, now it doesn't matter that Hyundai engines or Chinese engines aren't very good...the EV Powertrains are all equally as smooth, powerful and responsive. When it's all the same, why pay more.
Another problem is Costs. Ford for example do not put ford badges anywhere on the Mustang Mach E. because there is no way they can put the blue oval on such an expensive car, because that was not what that badge means to people.
It doesn't help that the quality of German cars has taken a serious down turn over recent years.
With the quality, performance and reliability gone (as well as the looks - BMW) it doesn't look very rosy for them, especially when compared to the far east brands.
latest amg c63 is 4 banger with electric motor making 600+, but when battery dies, which is in couple of miles it's as fast as golf gti, mainly because it weights as much as a house and costs as one
@@r3tr0c0e3the battery is probably the least worrisome item on the car.
Its time the buyers turned around and told the WEF to ....... (censored due to being a family channel)
Don't worry, we and I think THEY got the....message🤣🤣🤣
The WEF has disposable players.
People should be able to work out where this is heading.
Blame management. Find out who the management are linked to then concentrate on the links they have.
@@idonotwantahandle2 💯
Were you going to comment something about fornication and fecal material?
They'd stand a better chance selling fridges to Eskimos🙃
My friends an eskimo she’ll by a fridge
@@user-eg7uw9ls4o My friend's switched on, she won't buy an EV😂
Especially if they are as dumb as you
Since the German automakers don't want to sell EVs but are forced by our governments to do so, I guess your 100% wrong. If you think the government mandated switch to EVs is an opportunity to stop buying premium brands and to reimagine yourself as a china car man, well, then it's your right to be a china car man!
At the least her food wont feeze 😅
If VW put a 2 litre turbo diesel in the ID Buzz,they wouldn't keep up with demand!
Minus the DMF !!!
Diesel engines kill peoples lungs smartass
Agree
This is part why the EU is trying to ban old cars.
Se can buy more cheap chinese cars ?
@@LevyHappyClapperexcept with the new European taxes they won't be cheap because it's always the consumer who ends up paying more.
@@vlada they will still be cheaper than the equivalent EU built EV's
EU needs to go. Why are we listening to some old, one foot in grave Ursula and her stupid laws that are clearly Europeans unfriendly. Just because America can afford to do something doesnt mean we can afford it as well.
The war on older cars is on for at least 10 years, nobody does repair anymore, even parts are not always availible. Before the goal was to buy new, now the goal is to buy new EVs
It’s a sad sad world and I’m glad I am old 😢😢
I know I’m old, but in the Eighties it was a real pleasure to visit our local VAG dealership. Today I went to my local Audi ‘temple’ to pick up my A5. I love the car but couldn’t get out of there fast enough. The price of the new stuff is obscene and wouldn’t put £100k in an EV even if the planet depended on it (it doesn’t). Two heated discussions between customers and service staff over their broken down almost new electrical vehicles left me feeling really out of step with cars today. Would love to buy a new Renault 5 for my kids, but with a peppy petrol engine and no more than £15,000. Am I being unreasonable?
Agree entirely.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
It does depend on it, you selfish turd. Global warming i8s a real problem.
No you’re not being unreasonable, I had a horrendous experience with them last year, they had my RS6 for 5 months and I got it back and it failed again. As soon as it came back fixed, I part exchanged it for the 911 I’ve always wanted! And guess what, it went wrong again a month later, with the same head gasket problem for its new owner!
The problem is leasing and PCP, eg the scheme to get poor people into expensive cars.
Car manufactures have pushed up car prices as interest rates were low and idiots who use PCP/Leasing have helped drive this.
I only buy for cash ever.
Always had stupidly expensive company cars, but now I just by for cash as the difference between a £90K car and a cheap car when your stuck in a traffic jam on the M5 is ZERO.
Bought a 996 back in 2002 for cash(very nice foreign tax rebate) at that point my 996 was a really rare beast, now they are common and that is going to lead to the destruction of these brands. I think i paid circa £60K+ SIMILAR PORSCHE NOW IS AT LEAST DOUBLE, but 99.9% are leased.
We need interest rates to get to 10% to resolve the stupid house and car price in UK.
taycan sales down no wonder when a 12v battery is £2800
They dont seem to understand that we don't want EV sh!t boxes that cost a fortune and weigh three tonnes!
We want Evs but not AS many as they have planed!So Evs are the Future but it will Take a very Long Time and Not every country has to Money to built the Infrastruktur needet for Evs!
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl No, "we" don't want EVs. Maybe "you" do, but speak for yourself. You couldn't give me one of those lithium ion powered trash cans.
The problem with using "we" to ascribe a group of people is that you need to qualify who exactly 'we" are!
For example
If person A days "we don't want EVs" where "we" is defined as "people who don't want EVs"
And at the same time person B says "we do want EVs" where "we" is defined as people who want EVs.
The both statements are true and correct.😂
@@geraldscott4302
@geraldscott4302 So you represent "we" 😂
You don't represent the already millions of EV owners, and you don't represent me 😊
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl Hardly anyone wants a Ev. The figures prove that. Can't see them lasting tbh if customers have the choice.Just one big scam Imo.
if so then Jaguar is toast - completely
When governments get involved it all goes down the toilet 😅
Someone i was chatting with in Germany said to me what is the point of a job if it damages the environment - i think hundreds of thousands of german workers are about to find out...
They already have.
And no doubt you will also find out what clImate change can do to you
@@christophervaughan2637 nothing as per usual, apart from having to tolerate the easily lead.
@@pippip8744 you can’t see ahead
@@christophervaughan2637 There is no such thing as man made climate change. It's a lie being used to justify changes in society we wouldn't normally accept.
Audi be ashamed of themselves.
Cause we will all be skint how can u drive a car when a loaf of bread costs 3 weeks wrth of petrol ,
@@Crosshatch1212 ... ... ... honey, I'm off out to fuel the car *grabs the Hovis*
All the time I’ve got a hole in my arse I will not buy electric car
Ditto
I know we're all thinking it so I'll ask... Does a prolapse count? 🙃
@@Sebastianraikkonen_actualname wasn't thinking but thanks for the image!
I'm proud to say I never caved to the diesel push (I can't enjoy a diesel). I'll never cave to the current EV offerings - too big, too expensive, soulless. They're not cars, they're appliances.
As an owner of a 1990 Audi, they're nothing like the company they used to be. They've lost the plot and I'd never buy an Audi designed in the last 15-20 years.
I'd like to see some smaller, less luxurious, more affordable EV offerings. I'm not paying more than £25k for a brand new car.
@@JamesGadbury stop saying cave after I mentioned Prolapse 😂😂😂
@@Sebastianraikkonen_actualname Is *_'Prolapse'_* the name of the new Audi EV
Im still driving a 2004 vw jetta TDI with 360,000 kilometers so hopefully she'll be around for many more years.
best engine VW ever made
German manufacturer are not giving what their customers want. They see the signs but refuse to react.
Maybe the VAG Group should follow Ford's lead and cancel production of their best selling models, the Golf and the Polo. 😂😂😂You couldn't make it up!
Shush, don’t give them ideas!!
They did follow Ford to a steering group the VW foundation came after the Ford foundation.
It's planned, no new Up, Polo and no Golf MK 9.........
@@markuskruger2102 Really, I'm shocked. Although, I guess that I shouldn't be.
Well the Fiesta and Focus sales fell off. Like badly didn't even sell 100k units I believe.
I have heard they cut production to lower output which obviously contributed if true.
The Lunatics have taken over the Asylum
That happened a long time ago, it's been hidden from veiw, but the blighters have escaped, and the public is finally becoming aware
Yes - you and Geoff. Planet haters
And they pretend like they are normal people.
Audi have lost the plot 😮
Not just Audi...
Yeah all premium car brands are charging to much for premium cars
German philosophy with regards to engineering cars has been tempered over the past 100 years they have not only abandoned their cultural industrial identity they are condemning their youth. Instead they could have embraced alternative technologies, when they obviously know that EV cars are an environmental tragedy for the future downfall of manufacturing
@@tony5oos I was in a 1 Series M recently and this is why I hate modern cars. I start reversing to park it and the left mirror is completely out of line, I assumed I'd knocked the button when scanning my pass for the car park... NOPE the stupid thing automatically points downwards when reverse parking, ironically I can see the bay park line but I could NOT see the parked car. What absolute moron thought that was a good idea! Over engineered rubbish. Mirrors have worked fine for a hundred years, just bloody leave them alone 🙄
@@Sebastianraikkonen_actualname that feature is being there for the last 20years or so. Just move the adjuster out of the right mirror position and the mirror will not move down.
@@xg5zm but why are we having to use additional buttons to just park 🤷🏻♂️ so unnecessary. This is why people are so bad at parking these days as they rely solely on the car to see everything
@@Sebastianraikkonen_actualname by the mirror tilting down you are supposed to be helped as the mirror will now let you see the curve and them help you position the car while maneuvering backwards during a parallel parking maneuver.
I am with you it is easier to just lower the mirror if needed, wich I found it isn't that often
Porches did build a hybrid tank in the 40s
Audi should just turn the lights off. Even with government tax breaks on EVs, all e-tron gt models are 100k€++ in Finland. Never going to buy one, since everything else is getting expensive even faster. Don't need an EV when you're soon homeless, eh?
ICE ban will destroy EU, since they will wreck so many industries and economies. For absolutely no reason.
VW already has very good economy cars. The problem why they don't sell new cars, is that a new Passat costs twice as much as a family can afford.
My neighbour is middle management at BMW here in Munich. He says none of his collegues believe the ICE ban will actually happen. And he said it like I was stupid for even asking.
帕萨特在中国的最低售价是13万人民币，不到两万欧元
Reality will kick in before the ban. Governments and parliaments will change when people with 5k€ rustbins (majority) realize they need to put 80k€ to a car by law.
Audi is the premium brand of VAG, with VW models costing upwards of 60k there is no need for them anymore
@@dademr Some of that is inflation though, i.e. everything has become 20% - 30% more expensive over the past 5 years. Salaries increased by only roughly 2% - 3%. Houses and cars in particular went up by 50% - 100%. You’ll notice the price difference between ICE and electric versions of the same mode aren’t that big.
Jaguar are also going into decline with all electric models
@@Beefyfarmer Ummmm…. Jaguar has only one BEV, and that is a 6 year old model.
You build a car for 30k. You get about 50k from the govt (TAX payer) and bout 50k from the customer. Thats the manufacturers new model for making a profit. Why would they stop?
You don’t really believe that do you, where did you get that information?
I use to work for chysler in 2000 and from sheet metal to the end of the assembly line it cost about 5-6k per car, every cost included . Im sure thats gone up a bit now but its probably less than 10k a car still.
Even with all the lithium it cant be more then 15k, i work at Renault and for example, the battery for Twingo EV is about 5000€, the rest of the car around 4000€, a completed car is 9000€, sell price was set to 27000€, exclude vat and still you make 100% profit
Geoff, German here: your pronounciation is quite 'English' .....but lovable (because of it) and understandable for a German (with 1 English ear). Always brings me an extra bright smile when you spell a German bureaucrat's monster snake word. The reason why only BMW goes somewhat in line with reality is that it is still largely a (Quandt) family owned (and directed) company while the rest (after old Piëch left VW) is a 'manager' (not) lead branch who did and do everything not to collude with left-green MSM or politicians. As quality and 'advance by technic' declined to an all time low and costs remained 1st class high and the hail is searched in exporting production to communist China the collapse of the German (car) industry is almost scheduled. Thanks to elected(!) politicians. Keep up the good work, 'schönen Montagabend! (myself running XUD powered Citroën BXs and a tdi Disco1)
Putting on one side debates on the many virtues of Mercedes old school Diesels, the XUD in my lightweight Citroën Visas and Peugeot 205s (especially the DTurbo in 1990) was a revelation. And I then had 6 years of an early Defender 200 TDI in a Defender. All were utterly reliable, in contrast to today's admittedly slightly less smoky electronics infested Diesels.
Hello from Germany, thanks for this. I'm here on family recommendation.
What do I think of the German pronunciation so far? Rubbish! :)
There was a video from John Cadogan, an Australian motoring journalist. VW Audi Group have redirected €67 billion from EV to ICE development. The CEO of Toyota said EV's will make up 30 percent of the market.
The use case for EV's works as long as it's for local journeys and you can install a charger at home. Add to that the lack of infrastructure and the cost of charging away from home costing as much if not more than ICE cars.
The future is alternatives fuels; primarily Hydrogen.
The other issue is recent car design. It seems manufacturers are obsessed with SUV crossovers. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in not wanting that particular style of car.
Agree with your last opinion. The market is saturated with crossovers, even worse, they are all having the same cookie-cutting designs.
Never seen the automotive market so boring nowadays.
German here.
German automobile manufacturers have relied far too heavily on electric cars.
Probably also due to pressure from politics.
It was clear from the start that German drivers don't want to buy electric cars at the moment. At least not in the quantity as hoped.
The range is too short and it is often uncertain where the battery can be charged.
Many Germans live in a high-rise building and not in their own house. So it´s difficult for them to charge the battery.
And of course electric cars are far too expensive. A normal German earner simply cannot afford a new electric car.
This just shows how far removed from reality our politicians and company bosses are.
They also push for high EU tariffs to Chinese cars to save German jobs and subsidise generous retirement packages no one else enjoys in Europe, making cars more expensive for all of us.
If Audi isn’t careful it will be the car version of Nokia. It needs to step back and read the market, not the politicians.
Sold few years ago my 2004 A4 1.9 TDI with almost 500.000Km. Still had the original turbo and clutch. Did 1000 Km with a tank. Still regret selling it.
I’ve owned a B5.5 Passat 1.9tdi with 130,000+ miles on the clock for the past ten years. Runs like a Swiss watch, pulls like a train, economical, serviced every year and zero problems. Best car I’ve ever owned.
So don’t the declining sales percentages given by VW indicate that it’s the EV sales that are dragging down the numbers ?
Yes, because their EV sales are being taken over by tesla and byd. European manufacturers thought it'd be an easy switch and they could just continue pumping out models, what they didn't realise was that other manufacturers can now build better cars than them, for cheaper, and unless they stuff a great big battery in an "luxury" SUV, they can't even come close to the efficiency of other EVs with smaller batteries.
@@DS9FANINDADEFIANTTesla a better car 🤣🤣🤣
@Isclachau as the best selling car of last year, yes, it is. They are far more efficient than their rivals at around 170mpgE vs 100mpgE
@@DS9FANINDADEFIANT You probably believe that as well. 🤣🤣
@Isclachau okay? On what metric do you want to analyse VWs cars vs tesla, because they beat them in nearly every category in the same class. Unless you want to continue to believe the overused quality argument which really hasn't been a thing since 2018, they beat VW in price, performance, functionality, features, usability, efficiency, range, infrastructure, software... shall I go on?
- btw, I don't even drive a tesla, I drive a bmw, but my mates have tesla, and other than personal preference, to most people, they're just better cars for what they do, and I understand why they were the best selling car last year.
I'm not a car person, but I always thought what was under the bonnet is what made the car?
I enjoyed radio controlled cars growing up - a little 10 cc engine! Battery operated cars were always a bore...
Why did they ever think we would all buy electric vehicles? They could have asked and we would have told them. To the consumers this is no surprise yet they all seem to be shocked.
All part of the plan to stop us driving and keep us housebound
Well I am sorry that you are a brain dead planet hating clown. Intelligent people can run them for 3p a mile.
Shanghai used to have unbearable air due to Ice’s but now that electric vehicles are becoming the norm their air quality is even better than some western cities.
According to China?
@@kalle5548 no it’s confirmed by westerners who have lived there during the change
In a poor economic period, where the demand for new vehicles is naturally depressed, why don't the car manufacturers supply the "parts" market so that older models are cheaper to repair (see insurance increase reasoning) It would both provide the sustainable/green position, and it would avoid the ICE/EV government imposed selling ratio fines.
Because ev is an idealogical pie in the sky idea
That would certainly make sense environmentally but common sense is not as common as it used to be.
You obviously have not the slightest idea how economics work.
Common sense and the environment are both enemies of the state.
@@thedreamfactory6964 I know enough that I can see the current economic model is broken and prefer to look at alternatives rather than sticking with the same model with everything crossed hoping it will work. ( because the current crop of economists can only repeat what they have been taught and lack the vision or creative thinking that is required to change)The "just in time model" was a mistake imo when it was introduced in the 80's, it only made sense to accountants in the board room and short sighted inherited executives. Buying new to keep up with your neighbours, makes no sense when new means buying at unrealistic inflated prices with huge depreciation built in, short life expectancy ( built around lease the hire and finance model ) and a zero parts and/or repair infrastructure to keep the customers confidence in the product.
Car manufacturers have lost sight of what made their industry so successful. Producing an individual transport solution for the masses at numbers and reliability which make it also affordable for those masses. Designing form following function not the other way around. I'm with Geoff in that I think cars reached their peak in the early part of this century. Everything added since has just been bling, and the trouble with bling is the novelty soon wears off.
So yes, I'm not an economist, I have a successful business based solely around common sense and knowing what my customers want and supplying it. The only model that might improve it is of the leggy variety.
While polishing my car yestery, I explained to my new neighbour that my Audi TT was 20 years old next year. He’s obviously not a car buff as he thought it was a newer model! After that conversation I couldn’t help but wonder how many electric Audis will still be running in 20 years time!
None
My honda was built in 91 ,and it's mint honda 400 four super sport ,yum
@@Crosshatch1212bullet proof!! 😁👍👍👍
@@cleanhit777 Why would they no longer be running? Plenty of EVs have clocked up +400,000 miles with batteries still above 70% capacity providing hundreds of miles of range.
@@glowwurm9365which specific Audi models were they?
If only everything in life was as reliable as a......oh wait. 😬
TOYOTA & LEXUS?
When were they even reliable anyway? I know volvo was reliable when the had the 240 etc
When were they even reliable anyway? I know volvo was reliable when the had the 240 etc
@@petarigic5246had a baby and it's called Texas
Five years with no repairs - who is the idiot?
Did you notice all the BYD advertising during the Euros …in Germany . No wonder they’re in trouble
When you get global activists in your board that have no idea that they are destroying the company
So Audi must be planning to go out of business by 2033!
RIP Audi
Across the whole industry quality is down and price is up. Price rises in the last 5 years will automatically dampen down new car sales. Service and insurance costs have rocketed meaning that, for many, running an older ICE car and using an independent garage is the only way to stay mobile.
I have driven Audi, BMW and VW from the 90s and early 00s. They were simpler, better cars.
Spot on, this isnt an EV issue, its the plethora of stuff i need to turn off as soon as leave the forecourt. I dont need half of whats on the car, some of which makes driving slightly unnerving (lane assist which jerks my wheel? No thanks, off you go).
Seems like there is a golden opportunity for VW here. They used to be expert in making cheap and reliable Ice cars. If they have a smart manegement they can grab more sales now.
@glowwurm9365 The hazard especially in unfamiliar rental cars is baffling touch screens making heater control and radio selection a wild ride, apart from random surround sound bleeps and bongs and yes the scary steering wheel action when the bloody things detect a joint in the tarmac etc. Do any buyers actually want any of this stuff that seems an excuse to charge 30 grand for a 15 grand car ?
Welcome to Euro 7😂😂😂China makes a 😂😂😂😂😂
How the German car industry has fallen . In 1982 I bought my first brand new car a black XR3 .Across the full width of the windscreen was a sticker saying " Proudly assembled in Western Germany " . Followed by an RS Turbo in 1985 and a Mk2 Golf GTi 19 year in 1988 . I still have the Golf , even though it has not turned a wheel for several years . The Golf is with a restoration company and hopefully be back on the road next year . I have not bought a new car since , currently driving a 19 year old Astra . I certainly would not consider an EV .
Companies out date there own vehicles so quickly, like the Audi Etron and Porsche Taycan are already 4 years old. Any computer, laptop, Tv, or phone from 2020 is of course usable but is definitely aged. Anything that's mechanical or has a engine jus doesn't faze out so rapidly.
I have a note 10 plus, not really aged that much.
Loved the Audi Quattro, a true classic, shame Audi has lost the plot.
Is it just me or does anyone else feel that we are regressing for the sake of net zero and I can't help feeling that is part of the plan from Davos & the WEF.
Go woke go broke. See ya Audi
It is unbelievable to think that Audi has been the pioneer for usable four wheel drive cars having spent millions of Euros developing their market on the back of their iconic Quattro brand, together with their domination of 13 overall 24 hour wins during the early to mid 2000s….i have an independent Audi Specialist garage in Surrey specialising in the RS Quattro brand now experiencing supplies of essential parts being systematically made obsolete for, Audi Quattro, RS2, RS4, RS6, and early R8s!! These mega cars are no longer being supported by the manufacturer !! It is as if Audi don’t want to acknowledge they even existed. Companies like ours, forums, clubs are the only hope for the brands’ future…….progress ??? In so so many ways ‘The Future is so retarded !’
What is all the fuss about the german car industry ? Their cars are completely overpriced, poor reliability, over-engineered, complex and expensive maintainance…etc. They offer you the worst warranty of all auto makers ( especially here in germany), they’re arrogant AF and they cheat on you on all occasions. Why would anyone miss them ? I certainly wouldn‘t
Like the Tycan. The e-tron irrespective of wether it’s an EV or not is just too bloody wide. Who wants to wrestle these monstrosities into a parking spot at their local supermarket? I’d love to know how sales are going for the new electric Macan too???
The electric macan is selling well I heard.
My issue with the e-tron is its performance (the Q4 is smaller than the ICE Q5 by the way), not only is it heavier than peers but its also slower. And whilst its interior is nice its not enough to warrant the premium being asked over peers like the KIA or the Honda of the Volvo.
I just bought a 2023 BMW 520d, six months old with 3000 miles, estate car. I think I have bought one of the last proper normal car ever made by BMW, as what they make now is sheite.
the industry is lost, manufacturers have no sense of purpose, direction or unique value proposition ... they ended themselves
If Governments were confident that EVs were the way forward they would have ALREADY improved the electricity generation and distribution across the relevant countries. Clearly they are waiting to see which way the wind blows - no pun intended.
Mk 1, 225 , TT driver here. Over 20 years old (both me & the car) ..... how eco friendly can you get?
2024 is undoubtedly the year this all falls apart but we saw this from day 1!
I get my cars via the Motability Scheme, this past year the have been pushing the EV’S really hard dropping the Advance payments by large amounts pushing up the AP in ICE’s and reducing the choice.
Should not push EVS on to disable to many problems and safety issues
Easy to check.
Go to the website and use the filter feature.
There are more ICE cars than EVs on offer on Motability.
There are more ICE cars on offer with zero Advance Payment cost than EVs.
Based on that it seems that the balance is skewed to ICE don't you think?
On the German theme, "Danke, Aber Nein, Danke!" Take your money, buy a 2nd hand car yourself. I've no idea what modifications you need, but ironically, high roof cars equipped with ramps for wheelchairs that might work for mobility scooters have a low resale price. If you know someone who can look over cars or can find a reasonable 2nd hand dealer. You will have a car you own and lots of money in your pocket. The Govt still covers your tax. What do they take per month for a vehicle with a limited mileage allowance? You might not be able to drive great distances, but do you have less physically limited friends? If they have time, then you can use them to chauffeur you to places because they get to travel there too.
I'm losing my ability to walk any distance (amongst other things) I'm re applying for PIP, but should I get a mobility allowance I'd not touch Motability with a bargepole.
@@colingaskell9571 My wife is disabled and the car dealership never once mentioned an EV.
@@COIcultist motability is not for everyone, because I had to give up work as did my wife our credit rating took a missive hit buying a car out right is out of the question and cannot get a loan either, motability works great for many people and takes the stress out of running a car, no bills other than fuel, I’ve had a car on the scheme from 2 months since I qualified so I do not miss the money I’ve never had.
Some of what you say makes sense, but the biggest driving factor is cost and the finance packages involved , BMW are still selling both electric and petrol cars because they are offering 4.9% interest rate , some models even lower , Audi , vw and Porsche are offering anywhere from 6.9 % (vw) , 9.9 % (Audi) and anything Porsche can get away with , the world has slowed down , the economies in countries have suffered , but manufacturers put prices up (new taycan Over £100k !) , I’m sorry but manufacturers are crying when trying to charge ridiculous overinflated prices when the the average family can’t afford them, they are after the fast money by selling more expensive cars , their audience has shrunk and it now can’t be sustained.
Reduce your prices and make the finance attractive again and guess what they will sell cars and probably have record sales, build your profits back up slowly.
Before COVID manufactures were offering huge discounts and still making money , £100 k cars were super cars not family suvs as they are today.
Manufacturers are getting everything they deserve by not gauging their market they are selling into.
Because over the years the idiots have got incharge.. they hire for diversity rather than who can actually do the job... Management are now just yes men/women with no idea..... They need to take all the pointless electrical junk of cars that would make them far more attractive and a lot cheaper.. but they won't cuz some 🔔end accountant is in charge and only sees 2 inches in front of their face 🙄
100% the idea you can just look at figures without looking at global macro and the associated finance then blame EV is laughable. My mortgage has risen by 35%, i cant afford to buy a brand new car at £50k, yet my family are in the top 10% of earners. So its no surprise that premium car makers are struggling if they aren't adapting finance models.
Nobody wanted computers until everyone did.
Do these folks in high positions not remember VHS vs Beta Max? Folks won't buy what they don't want. I would rasther walk before I buy an EV. If you want an EV, go get one, good luck going far in it though. Plus, second-hand, battery life? WTF. Why do I change my mobile phone every few years......mainly because the battery is f'd. Thats ok for a £1000 phone, but no good for a £50000 car. Nope, stick em where the sun don't shine. They are not ready yet. I need to tow a caravan, so no use to me.
It’s more super 8 vs VHS. There is a global recession and high interest rates so the TCO is not as good as it used to be but also. You’re pretending ICE cars sell like cup cakes. They don’t.
Private buyers is hardly buying any cars. It’s company leasing cars and they look at TCO. As prices go down and interest rates too, there’s no turning back. Once you hit a crucial threshold like in China, Norway and Sweden it happens fast. Norway is 85% EVs.
We dont matter to them, forcing this on to people was a bad approach, the tech is 10 years away from being on par with the freedom of ICE system
I did think it was quite funny that BYD was allowed to be the title sponsor at the Euro's. You would have thought VW Audi BMW and Mercedes would have banned them
I think your concept is even funnier. For whatever reason VW Audi BMW MB did not become a sponsor, be it they were not interested / couldn't afford, why do you think they could just "ban" other brands from becoming a sponsor? I'm sure many German brands sponsored games in China, should the Chinese ban Adidas / Puma / Philips / Bosch / Siemens / Allianz? All of these German brands mentioned, the Chinese have their own respective local industry too.
51% I wonder how much of that is down to The Mac Master
hes an absolute total D$$K head.. a idiot bloke how PCP his way into acar he stupiudly couldnt ever afford then goes crying about becuse its lost money.. people like him have are all whats wrong with the uk PCP never never.. dont buy what you cant afford ..
Management can never be accused of realy knowing anything! They have degrees and diplomas, not knowledge. People on the workfloor know usuallybest, but have no say in management!
What no one in the comments has said is -
(1) The illegal under the table payments paid by successive German Govts to their auto industry since 1982 -When they stopped paying 2% of GDP to NATO and only paid 0.70%.
(2) When Trump won the Presidency and visited the EU he made it clear by naming EVERY single country that had renegged on its 2% GDP payment (Britain was the only country not mentioned) and that they would have to start paying their full membership immediately (NB -I'm no Trump supporter).
(3) When Biden won the Presidency and visited the EU he reiterated this by stating that he would not overturn what Trump had said -and rightly so.
(4) Germany and other EU nations had to divert funds from their 'Grand Schemes' and start paying their 2% as well as re-arm because of the threat of Putin.
(5) Germanys car industry as well as certain other industries have have felt the loss of this illegal payment greatly as the German car industry took the extra billions for developement and that's why German car manufacturers were so far ahead of the rest of Europe .
NB -It will cost trillions of Euros to re arm the German army ,airforce and navy back to NATO standard -the same trillions the past Gernan govts diverted to their industries instead of paying to NATO -THE CHICKENS HAVE FINALLY COME HOME TO ROOST.
NB -German car companies will find it increasingly hard to take a big market share or even maintain what they have regardless of the advent of electric cars. It's predicted by German business analysts that in the next 5/7 years VW/AUDI/PORSCHE will probably have to be split as well as staff redundanciea running into the tens of thousands so that they can remain viable (VW are experiencing for the first time a diwnturn in their market at home as once loyal VW buyers purchase other brands because they don't see VW as goid value for money any more).
What manufactureres don't seem to understand: we don't want to drive in 3 tons range monsters.
It's not about range or price. It's about charging time.
When charging from 10% to 80% will be possible in 5 minutes I'll buy an EV, too, not before.
When charging is fast enough, range will be no problem anymore and EVs can finally get lighter again.
Current EVs charging times are not fit for purpose. Currently I would not buy an EV, even if it was cheaper than a combustion car.
If Blackrock/Vanguard have a controlling share of VW and all the other companies going electric then it all makes sense.
I can't believe I'm eating Haggis today.....normally don't do that til mid winter.....
Ugh I miss Haggis, post some to Surrey please!
Haggis but it’s the hottest summer on record 😮
I had haggis today bloody lovely 😁
@@imbonkers3629it’s not hot in the U.K. midlands. I have just turned the central heating back on.
I like Haggis. Started buying it from a butcher in the Scottish Borders.
I wondered why I never received a questionnaire asking if I wanted an EV. I bought three cars in 2021, so it would seem they would want my opinion. Instead, they stumbled ahead, pushing EV’s I will never buy.
I'm from Germany. I would never buy a car from a German manufacture. They're highly overpriced in our country, less reliabel and build qualitity is going worse and worse. I don't know what they're thinking and doing.
Have a look at Big Car on European car production by brand over the years. Opel the major German Manufacturer just disappeared.
VWs Belgian plant is going to shut, the Zwickau plant (The old Trabant place) is having hard times trying to produce EVs. Shifts closed, I believe.)
3rd or 4th time of trying. The Ford Crapi is built on the Audi e-tron base. Built in Belgium, (French speaking) run a French to English translation on étron. They both have the same name. You have to run it, you wouldn't believe me if I told you.
Damn. 🤣
@@stevenjones916 No, not damn but dump.
Oh! shit
Opel is owned by GM, it's Vauxhall by another name. GM is American
@@baronvonhoughton *"Opel is owned by GM, it's Vauxhall by another name. GM is American"*
European production, not ownership. By the way, both are now part of the same clusterf(mistake) that is Stellantis.
Look at the Big Car production timeline. Car companies are going to crash now because of the misadventure that is EV. Opel just managed to destroy itself without any of the usual factors that haunt the British and American industries.
Interesting that you say that no-one wants electric cars but also that low cost Chinese cars are selling well in both Europe and China. And expensive Chinese electric cars are cornering the premium market in China too. So maybe it's not that people don't want electric cars, it's just that they don't wants the ones coming out of VAG. Just a thought...
I think the problems for the car industry go much deeper than people simply not liking electric cars. I have never been a '3 years and chop it in' car owner and often keep cars well over ten years. My current cars are a 9 year old diesel Tiguan and a 14 year old SLK. They are both looked after and run perfectly, and anything they need doing gets done. Recently my wife asked me if we should get a new car. my instant answer was "why, there's nothing wrong with the ones we have." So then we thought about it for a while and my argument for not buying a new car was a wake up call that had been an unformed thought for some time.
So what don't I like about new cars -
1) the industry seems to have gone back to the 1970s producing ugly boxes that all look the same. I know this is partly due to them mostly sharing platforms and the amount of equipment bolted on these days which limits what will fit under a sloping bonnet. I'm a retired graphic designer, so my opinion of car designers is "must try harder".
2) Europe has mandated the fitting of data loggers. How long before they mandate that those data loggers share the information with law enforcement to issue automatic fines for every transgression? Apparently owners already have to sign T&Cs so my guess is sooner rather than later.
3) Speed limiters are also being fitted. Not the type like on our SLK where we can set it when its convenient to do so, but the sort that intrude on you every time the car is started and do daft things like hit the brakes when they spot a 30mph sign on a side road, despite you driving on a 60mph road. Something a relative's I-pace has done.
4) Glass cockpits with bloody silly iPads for a huge range of options. I have no problem with the information screen in front of the driver, but all the other controls you need while moving must be proper knobs and switches you can feel without needing to look.
All these issues affect pretty much all cars at present and while they do, I will not be buying, and I suspect a great many others will also not be buying. I was at a classic and sports car show at the weekend where there were some beautiful examples of cars that are 50 years old and simply put modern car design to utter shame. Even a mk4 Cortina is nicer looking than the current crop of boxes and don't get me started on the Capri!
Your pronunciation: nicht schlecht! I live in Germany. I was on the autobahn the other day and there weren't that many EVs about. All our neighbours who have electric cars either charge them at home from their solar panels or charge them at work. I have seen no new EVs around here since the start of the year. I was at our local dump on Friday and I asked the guy about what they were going to do about recycling EV batteries and he said that he hadn't a clue and neither did anyone else.
EV is not the problem, it is that they cannot compete on EVs. Actually in the history, no company was able to transit to new revolutionary technology that basically kills their current products.
Offer 600 miles per charge and a five minute recharge time with zero increase in automotive fires, and they might attract genuine buyers, people shouldn't be coerced into taking up their shoddy not fit for market conceptually flawed products.
How often do you drive 600 miles in a day? Genuinely interested...
I drive to my daughter's home twice a year 625 miles and 12 hours on one filling of diesel, my car can do it on 60ltrs and my van uses 70ltrs give or take a litre. The vehicles will do this until they expire but a EV wont, I can't afford to buy an EV and the train journey is slower. I'm waiting for the synthetic fuel to arrive in the pumps, it can mix with normal fuels and is better for the planet than large chemical batteries.
@@stephenhowe568 Affordability is an issue, then again i doubt your going out and buying a new ICE either. I went second hand and picked up and EV with fewer than 4k miles for a fraction of the cost of a new ICE of equal standing.
You could do that trip with an hours stop of for charging (i assume you stop and dont drive +600 miles without a break), i know this because i have done similar distances in an EV and it cost me less than my old Q5. Right now i am using Octopus renewable tariff and i can charge my car for 5p a KWH, its insanely cheap when compared to the 38/40 mpg i would get from my Q5 and i get 240/250 miles range from an initial charge.
What synthetic fuel do you see coming to market which is better than an EV and better for the planet?
Edit - In hindsight more like 90 minutes, rather dependent on the charger and availability.
@glowwurm9365 just you wait until they start hitting you with their already planned from the start pay per mile tax tariffs to recoup the obvious tax revenue losses at the pumps let's wait and see, you didn't think you would genuinely get a better deal by being fooled into ev life did you ?
@stephen 12 hours a day? That's like driving drunk and nor only that but you're commiting a crime cause you can kill someone like that.
Bought a 3 year Corolla hybrid and honestly do not know why I bought Golf’s for so long. Removing the knobs was the final straw. I’m getting 55 mpg and don’t understand why we need pure electric.
Here's a thought ive been saying for 5 or 6 years now.....The govts world wide should TALK to car manufacturers BEFORE taking action !!!!
Security of food supply is more important than the car market.
Vorsprung durch technik!
Go woke.
Go btoke.
Always check your spelling.
It was maybe 50 years ago when some city dwellers came to visit us in our rural town in the middle of the USA. And they were driving an Audi - a car I had never heard of before (unlike Chevy, Ford, Mopar or VW). And that Audi had one of the best sounding (and running) engines I had ever heard. I was so impressed. Of course I wouldn't have had one, parts and mechanics would be nowhere to be found, but that engine ran so smooth.
And now Audi is going to quit making ICE cars? They're abandoning a skill that they once excelled at. Sad.
The CFO of a business has basically one job, keep the money flowing. As such they often show a refreshing lack of hypocrisy and politics and groupthink that other senior leaders might get caught up in - because (outside merchant banking at least) the money doesn’t lie. As such, were I a CEO, and my CFO advised differently to the rest of my board, I would certainly be paying attention, because they could well be the only one who’s got it right.
Got to love how they advertise it driving down a german road because its too wide for a uk road
Simple answer.... Why don't the German car companies just lie about their figures.... After all that's what they did about the emissions debarcle.??
Personally, I'm not a fan of German cars. By the time the depreciation has calmed down, they have usually ended up with owners that don't maintain them. As a mechanic with 30 years experience, I dont judge people by the badge on their car, I judge the quality of their tyres. Nothing funnier than a fast german car with ditch finders on it.
It's a shame to see these iconic car makers disappear in the future. Also I have noticed less new cars on the road. 24 plates seem to be less apparent now. This is what happens when government interference begins to break up an industry.
Five and ten year plans did not work in the past, why would they work now?
how long will Audi have to supply spares for the ice cars they sell in there last year.
I only realised recently the Audi etron GT is basically a “budget” Porsche Taycan. The automotive sector is in a bit of a crisis at the moment. There’s not really a linear progression any more like we had with ICE engines for decades. Lots of alternative fuels and drivetrain ideas being thrown at the wall.
I believe sales of new cars, be it ICE or battery ( I refuse to call them EV’s) will decline. With all new cars having speed limiters fitted and in the EU, enabled along with awful laptop style dashboards, shared chassis technology and corporate styling, who wants one? I own a 20 year old Shogun, an F type and a 10 year old Range Rover. Approaching my 70’s the delight of driving is being diminished. Happy to accept I’ll never buy a new car again, I’d be happier with a classic!
Wouldn't worry too much about the car manufacturers yet as when pay per mile is introduced im sure by 2033 we will be paying £1000 per km to travel anywhere anyway
"The electric car *niche*"
Egg-flippin-xatly!
It's really simple, people can't afford the cars!!! There's only so many that get a company car or scheme, everyone else is just making do with their old car. Look at the roads, there's brand new cars and then there's the cars between 15-20 years old.
Somehow in german news it’s either car makers pay record high bonuses and increased dividends or they are close to bankruptcy and need government money 😂 it changes every other year.
they want us all to drive electric cars. i am really scared. i wish it could be like the old days. everything was great then.
And I really think that about sums it up in a nutshell! Yes.
Scared? Of what? Do you routinely live in fear of your mobile? Or you TV or PC?
Life has changed now, we aren't going back to the 80s, beside not everything was "great" back then, cold war, football violence, strikes, crap trains, recession collapse of British manufacturing. I remember quite a lot of the 70/80s being crap!
@@glowwurm9365 I think he's not happy about his options being taken away through government mandates.
@@mike-fp6lq Government has always restricted citizens options, to suggest otherwise is either idiotic or disingenuous.
If you don't want an EV, the Chinese will happily sell you an ICE car.
The Chinese have a lock cheap batteries, but their steel and everything else is way cheaper too.
The Germans were doing well in China until recently, now Chinese consumers are buying Chinese cars.
China is alao heavily investing in their energy infrastructure and since they don't have much domestic oil production, they aren't expanding that to the dame degree.
Cheap energy and EVs is a match made in heaven for the Chinese, no way anyone will be able to yompete with their very low transportion costs, which will flow through to end product pricing.
The Germans can make a £30000 car that costs 20 p/mile to run, the Chinese make a £20000 car that costs 2 p/mile to run.
China is subsidizing their automotive industry, just as they did with Steel, and they dump these products at cost onto foreign markets (since profit isnt their driving motive).
Doesnt help that European manufacturers are dependent on Chinese batteries and are loading up EV's with every tech imaginable forcing the costs higher.
Based coal burning Chinese.
@@pippip8744 don't forget they have deployed more solar and wind than the rest of the world combined. Soon their energy and transport infrastructure will be so cheap it will be impossible to compete on cost.
@@pippip8744 China has the largest renewable infrastructure in the world, and it continues to outstrip the west in new supply.
Meanwhile we have Trump suggesting to dig more coal? Care to explain?
Ah well, if it ends German car industry, it can't be all bad , can it?
There will come a tipping point where governments realise all electric isn’t going to happen and the goalposts will be shifted. Looking at things a different way: the UK government is really paying into AI (which apparently is currently at the intelligence level of a cat) & we are going to need a lot of data centres, centres which will possibly gobble electricity like the data cloud, so will there be enough in the grid to service all the county’s needs without adding EVs?
Where you are wrong is that they won't realise all electric is wrong. They don't give a s..t. They just want to ban individual transportation and force a majority of people to take public transportation. That's part of a bigger plan, the 15 minute cities, CBDC, universal income etc
audi in trouble thats made my day cant stand that brand