Apparently a ten-year-old pointed this out to the company, which recalled them and told the local paper "We're actually a little embarrassed that we didn't notice that sooner."
Like back in the 90s when I worked for a urological surgeon and had to type up an operation report on a man who was too embarrassed to go to his doctor about his erectile dysfunction and instead inserted a pencil down his urethra, and the pencil broke during sex. PSA: do not DIY treat your erectile dysfunction. Go to your doctor. You may be embarrassed but your doctor will have seen this all before and will be able to help you.
@@5Demona5 until you got to the last word and every time you tried using it, and the pencil told you 'Don't' (if the original was 'don't use drugs). You'd have to sharpen it more until it told you 'Do'
@@JrIcify it would be a waste but also necessary. I mean, what else could you do? You can't disobey the pencil. Using the pencil when it tells you, very clearly, "Don't" is a gateway to using drugs when it tells you not to. You can't risk it!
@@bravo2966i don't think that's entirely fair. She doesn't have the dorky charm of Steven but her sassy schoolmistress still works in its own way. Change can be difficult but I think Sandi picked up nicely. Out of anyone previously on the show I do think she was the best or at least I can't think of anyone better. At least she's not that one Bearded Tit who was so arrogant he got on Sean Lock's nerves, it wasn't that posh old geezer with his endless stories and I thank the lord almighty it wasn't Jo Brand who seems physically incapable of doing anything but whine about her husband.
@@bravo2966 sure but I think that's the story of 'Stephen Fry left'. Everyone would have had a very hard time replacing Fry and out of everyone who isn't Stephen, Sandi probably is one of the best possible replacements.
@@ticketyboo2456 Thanks, but my namesake was the sixth Doctor, after Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Tom Baker and Davison, and many consider him the worst!
The best part of this programme is the very first part which is a limerick about maths: a dozen, a gross and a score plus three time the square root of four, divided by seven plus five times eleven equals nine squared and not a bit more. 🌞
@@slavakulishko3771 it’s an British programme called QI and definitely worth watching. If you pause the first second of the clip you will see an equation behind the celebrities which is the limerick I quoted. It’s on CZcams somewhere. I hope this helps 🌞
We've sat through a number of presentations and talks as part of a drug prevention programme. During one of them, they gave an overview of what kind of popular drugs were on the market and - I kid you not - how exactly they were made. We were not sure why they felt the need for us to know that.
Probably trying to scare you with chemistry. They will say stuff like its made from sulfuric acid from car batteries, lithium a very reactive metal, and sodium hydroxide thats found in drain cleaner,stuff like that. So they can say you wouldn't drink drain cleaner, would you? The funny thing is that legit pharmaceuticals are made with the same types of chemicals. That's what cool about chemistry, toxic, corrosive chems can be changed into life-saving chemicals.
Perhaps it’s meant to be similar to teaching about safe sex. So that if you are to do drugs, you’re taking drugs safely and responsibly. Cutting out the cutting and cartels.
Sooooo, funny story. I was in JROTC in high school, and our proximity to an air base meant our branch for the program was the US Air Force. Which meant in addition to the uniform, we got recruitment merchandise. Which included pencils. Which included the USAF motto. At that time, the motto was "Aim High." Right there. On the pencils. All capitals. Reading from point to eraser. In the hands of American high school students, who half the time would type 58008 into their calculator for a laugh. Needless to say, similar shenanigans.
Back in the '80s I was a letter carrier in L.A. They also had the whole "Say no to drugs" campaign going on at the time. One day we get these big buttons that read "Say No To Drugs" behind the red circle with slash mark that indicates NO to the statement. Therefore, "Say no to no drugs" A double negative that this carrier had to point out to management which intern pointed out to the MBA's in charge of the error. I'm sure there were others throughout L.A. to point it out but I was the only one in my station that saw it.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s and that symbol of “say no to drugs” with a circle and line through it was fairly common. Us kids got a laugh out of it, interpreting it as “‘Say no to drugs’ is not allowed!” or “Say no to ‘Say no to drugs’”. Looking back, I do find it amusing that first and second graders were able to immediately see the double-negative meaning of the image, but the adults that came up with it couldn’t see it.
Ok, two things. Actually… technically the red circle with the line isn’t “say no to no drugs,” it’s saying “No” to “Say no to drugs.” Basically saying “do not say no to drugs.” Very minor distinction that I wouldn’t have bothered to mention until I saw you say the second thing I noticed. It’s “in turn…” not “intern.”
My friend had a nice sharp pencil rolling off his desk, so he slammed his knees together to catch it in his lap. Alas, he was a fraction of a second too late, and caught it with the eraser against one thigh and the point against the other, driving it right through his jeans and about an inch into his leg. 😳
@@decodolly1535 and Frank Muir. I used to watch Call My Bluff with my father. We used to enjoy it so much. I think Robert Robinson used to do a children's quiz too?
I’d hazard to say (do I sound like an old British person too?!!) that the biggest problem with pencils was making the paint on the pencil with lead. Children would chew on the pencils and then the lead would leach onto their systems.
I have a pencil joke- in 4th grade church class a student John was sitting behind Amy and the teacher asked who made the world? and John poked Amy with his sharp pencil and Amy yelled "ooh my God" Teacher said, "thats right Amy" then latter talking about the garden of eden the teacher asked "Adam and Eve populated the earth, after having alot of children what do you think eve would say to Adam?" then John poked Amy with the sharp pencil again and Amy yelled "you poke me with that again, and Im gonna break it in half!" Teacher then changed the subject.
In cigarettes they are required to have a warning in the package and at the top it said “never quit trying to quit” the box was cut out in such a way that only the “never quit” was visible until you removed it. As most people simply throw it away immediately without looking at it again it was subliminal messaging that they eventually had to change.
Surely the biggest mistake ever made with a pencil, was the ones the Soviet cosmonauts used. The US gets a lot of stick for spending millions developing a pen that could write in low gravity, but the bits of graphite floated into the instruments on the Russian rockets, nearly causing a disaster.
Actually, those weren't "Stephen noises" but a reference to Robert Robinson on "Call my Bluff" who made those noises. They made jokes about it before, and Stephen was leaning into that here.
I believe some people have lost their lives in explosions caused by graphite dust from writing with pencils. That's why the Soviet space program switched to grease pencils and NASA used Space Pens.
This is even worse because back in the 80s the Nancy Reagan, "Say no to drugs" pencils did the same thing and parents complained about their kids pencils just saying DRUGS on them... The fact that it happened again just goes to show you that some people never learn from their mistakes.
Well you see.. the problem is that they were using chuck Norris as their mascot and everytime he would sharpen the pencil from the right side with his bare hands, it would always end up saying "too cool".
I knew someone who set fire to the school lab because they plugged the pencil into a powerpack after the teacher told us to do our own experiments, it was the same lesson that I blow up a powerpack after looping the circuit and creating a feedback loop.
Thought they were going to talk about pencils on spacecraft and the issues with the graphite fragments shorting circuits as it drifted around in the zero gravity.
Well, dropping pencils out of aircrafts in WW2 to attract children on the street and therefore be able to kill them, could be one of the wirst thing ever done with pencils as well.
Of course, everyone forgets about the Mathematician who got constipated. He formulated an equation, evaluated some variables, and finally managed to “work it out with a pencil”.
Also, the paint coatings on the pencils of some brands had lead and other type of hazardous materials. So when kids chew on the pencils, which nobody should, they become sick.
Apparently a ten-year-old pointed this out to the company, which recalled them and told the local paper "We're actually a little embarrassed that we didn't notice that sooner."
There's always one kid that has to ruin the fun 🤣
Bet that's the same kid who reminded the teacher about the homework 😂
Maybe the kid wanted to do drugs but wanted to check if the pencil was really giving him permission first.
So none sharpened them first to check it before sell them
Just make the words read from eraser to point instead of point to eraser???
*Stephen Noises*
'aah'
Melchard Noises
Robert Robinson impression.
They say of the acropolis where the parthanon is
@@colinbaker3916 Because nobody ever did it before he did (whoever he is)!
My mind immediately went into "embarrassing trip to the emergency room" territory.
Like the constipated mathematician who tried to work it out with a pencil?
Like back in the 90s when I worked for a urological surgeon and had to type up an operation report on a man who was too embarrassed to go to his doctor about his erectile dysfunction and instead inserted a pencil down his urethra, and the pencil broke during sex.
PSA: do not DIY treat your erectile dysfunction. Go to your doctor. You may be embarrassed but your doctor will have seen this all before and will be able to help you.
samee
@@Luubelaar I imagine having sex with a pencil inside your urethra would be horrendously painful. Broken or not. Also, how did that man urinate?!
@@NsKrewtable - I'm guessing he only put it in before he had sex and the pencil broke during the act, proving it was a bad idea.
I love that QI is "Down with the kids" enough to use the words *Stephen Noises*
It's the hip new lingo in the hit parade!
I don't believe this is the official channel. That or CZcams doesn't consider QI important enough to have to verify the channel.
@@MrSmithers naw it's actually legit. Look at the longer videos on it they have outtros from Sandi.
I loved when the youths decided the internet was a place for stupidity, its so much more fun this way
@@MrSmithersit is the official channel, and it is verified..
“Drugs!” - Sandi Toksvig
"The English Scotsman"? Pick a side
@@notaspider4084 nah, I’m good
And I took that as instructions like I have 300 bucks of pot here and it's not gunna use itself
@@notaspider4084Motherfucker is riding that fence like he's at the Grand National.
You shave it more to get here. She was right
“It’s time for drugs!” 😂
Alan is a friggin treasure ❤
A problem that could be easily solved by having it written starting from the eraser end.
@@Hargeysa Better for it to have something senseless over something negative
@@5Demona5 until you got to the last word and every time you tried using it, and the pencil told you 'Don't' (if the original was 'don't use drugs). You'd have to sharpen it more until it told you 'Do'
@@lisahenry20What a waste of pencils that would be. I guess they did make the right choice in the end.
@@JrIcify it would be a waste but also necessary. I mean, what else could you do? You can't disobey the pencil. Using the pencil when it tells you, very clearly, "Don't" is a gateway to using drugs when it tells you not to. You can't risk it!
@@lisahenry20 from the looks of it, it would seem as though you listened to these pencils they showed and did too many drugs. /j
The “it’s time for drugs” is one of the most perfect executed display of comedy timing I’ve ever seen
At school I got suspended for "defacing" a sticker on the councillor's car when I altered it from "GIVE ME HUGS NOT DRUGS" to "GIVE ME DRUGS".
Good job. The original sounds kinda creepy anyways.
@@rkah6187 I park outside a school in a van with "free hugs" spraypainted on the side and suddenly I'm the bad guy?!
Suspended? Seems harsh
The normal sticker isn’t better. Sounds like a sticker a pedo would put on his car. XD
man, don't be fuckin with people's cars, even if it was a sticker
funny edit though, props for that
Sandy really was the sensible choice to take over from Steve
The boring choice, she's killed it stone dead.
@@bravo2966you know. It is absolute dogshit now
@@bravo2966i don't think that's entirely fair. She doesn't have the dorky charm of Steven but her sassy schoolmistress still works in its own way. Change can be difficult but I think Sandi picked up nicely.
Out of anyone previously on the show I do think she was the best or at least I can't think of anyone better.
At least she's not that one Bearded Tit who was so arrogant he got on Sean Lock's nerves, it wasn't that posh old geezer with his endless stories and I thank the lord almighty it wasn't Jo Brand who seems physically incapable of doing anything but whine about her husband.
@@AW-sx8hm Yet the viewing figures plummeting since she took over tell their own story.
@@bravo2966 sure but I think that's the story of 'Stephen Fry left'.
Everyone would have had a very hard time replacing Fry and out of everyone who isn't Stephen, Sandi probably is one of the best possible replacements.
This is why you always test products, even when it seems ridiculous to do so. 😆
@Tyler Lopes They do, it's called sex and living together.
Perhaps it was no accident.
I do try and test my drugs as much as possible
The “Stephen noises” was Stephen impersonating Robert Robinson.
Colin Baker Thank you I was going to point that out. Btw loved you as the fifth Doctor.
@@ticketyboo2456 Thanks, but my namesake was the sixth Doctor, after Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Tom Baker and Davison, and many consider him the worst!
Bamber Gascoigne I think.
@@Species1571 No it is definitely Robert Robinson.
czcams.com/video/npvQ3M3WaPA/video.html
To be fair, I don't think you can reasonably expect people to recognize and impression when its literally just noises
And this is why I Sandi Toksvig got the gig she didn't even have the cue cards
No lol, she got the job because of what is between her legs and her choice in partner. The show went massively downhill when she was in charge.
Wha?
One of the few people who could take over the role imo. Along with Susie Dent and Sue Perkins.
@@Jagjamin are you high?
@@robinelliott-ni2eh right now, or in general?
Someone gave a pencil to John Wick.
the comment I was looking for.
I scrolled the entire section only searching for this comment. My friend, you hand down won.
The best part of this programme is the very first part which is a limerick about maths: a dozen, a gross and a score plus three time the square root of four, divided by seven plus five times eleven equals nine squared and not a bit more. 🌞
I feel stupid.
There once was a man from Bombay, who sailed to China one day.
He was strapped to the tiller, by a Sex Starved Gorilla. And China’s a bloody long way.
What is the name of this show?
@@slavakulishko3771 it’s an British programme called QI and definitely worth watching. If you pause the first second of the clip you will see an equation behind the celebrities which is the limerick I quoted. It’s on CZcams somewhere. I hope this helps 🌞
@@raydriver7300
Thank you.
Someone in a bar once loaned a pencil to John Wick…
#justsayin
Someone let the Joker perform a magic trick with a pencil.
We've sat through a number of presentations and talks as part of a drug prevention programme. During one of them, they gave an overview of what kind of popular drugs were on the market and - I kid you not - how exactly they were made. We were not sure why they felt the need for us to know that.
Probably trying to scare you with chemistry. They will say stuff like its made from sulfuric acid from car batteries, lithium a very reactive metal, and sodium hydroxide thats found in drain cleaner,stuff like that. So they can say you wouldn't drink drain cleaner, would you? The funny thing is that legit pharmaceuticals are made with the same types of chemicals. That's what cool about chemistry, toxic, corrosive chems can be changed into life-saving chemicals.
@@GMCLabs Nah, they told us things like how people get opiates from the poppy plant. Like the exact procedure
Perhaps it’s meant to be similar to teaching about safe sex.
So that if you are to do drugs, you’re taking drugs safely and responsibly. Cutting out the cutting and cartels.
@@Elephantstonica I guess it could have been? :D Anyhow, we thought it very strange at the time. Still do, to be honest.
@rkah6187 with the knowledge at hands, I must assume you have made a drug empire?!?!?
I'd have done the "graphite dust when a pencil was used in a space station"
Look up the whole video they have that one after if I remember correctly, they have like 3 different answers as QI does so often
It's time for drugs! 😂
I'm an accountant. The biggest mistake I personally ever made with a pencil was returning to my desk from the ladies room with a tampon behind my ear.
@@ediebegonia Well, that's something, at least! 🤣
I'm not going to ask where you had put the pencil!
@@Sue474 😉
Sooooo, funny story.
I was in JROTC in high school, and our proximity to an air base meant our branch for the program was the US Air Force.
Which meant in addition to the uniform, we got recruitment merchandise. Which included pencils.
Which included the USAF motto.
At that time, the motto was "Aim High."
Right there. On the pencils. All capitals.
Reading from point to eraser.
In the hands of American high school students, who half the time would type 58008 into their calculator for a laugh.
Needless to say, similar shenanigans.
Need a clip of Alan Davies saying time.for drugs
Back in the '80s I was a letter carrier in L.A. They also had the whole "Say no to drugs" campaign going on at the time. One day we get these big buttons that read "Say No To Drugs" behind the red circle with slash mark that indicates NO to the statement. Therefore, "Say no to no drugs" A double negative that this carrier had to point out to management which intern pointed out to the MBA's in charge of the error. I'm sure there were others throughout L.A. to point it out but I was the only one in my station that saw it.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s and that symbol of “say no to drugs” with a circle and line through it was fairly common.
Us kids got a laugh out of it, interpreting it as “‘Say no to drugs’ is not allowed!” or “Say no to ‘Say no to drugs’”.
Looking back, I do find it amusing that first and second graders were able to immediately see the double-negative meaning of the image, but the adults that came up with it couldn’t see it.
Ok, two things. Actually… technically the red circle with the line isn’t “say no to no drugs,” it’s saying “No” to “Say no to drugs.” Basically saying “do not say no to drugs.” Very minor distinction that I wouldn’t have bothered to mention until I saw you say the second thing I noticed. It’s “in turn…” not “intern.”
My friend had a nice sharp pencil rolling off his desk, so he slammed his knees together to catch it in his lap. Alas, he was a fraction of a second too late, and caught it with the eraser against one thigh and the point against the other, driving it right through his jeans and about an inch into his leg. 😳
Silly to subtitle them "Stephen noises" when he's specifically doing an impression of Robert Robinson.
Absolutely - came here to say that very thing.
I was trying to remember the name, thanks! Great memories!
@@juliestone9371 Here's another name for you: Arthur Marshall?
@@decodolly1535 and Frank Muir. I used to watch Call My Bluff with my father. We used to enjoy it so much. I think Robert Robinson used to do a children's quiz too?
A throwback to the Robert Robinsons sketch from ABOFAL
'A problem with pencils.'
'A problem with pencils?'
'A pencil problem.'
... And you're telling me these aren't musical lines?!
W. S. Gilbert could never
Lekker Marit
Pretty sure there are a few doctors and nurses in A&E who can show you X-rays of where people shoved pencils. That, to me is a far bigger mistake.
I’d hazard to say (do I sound like an old British person too?!!) that the biggest problem with pencils was making the paint on the pencil with lead. Children would chew on the pencils and then the lead would leach onto their systems.
It's graphite though, not actual lead.
Not the graphite, the paint. It used to be lead based paint.
I have a pencil joke-
in 4th grade church class a student John was sitting behind Amy and the teacher asked who made the world? and John poked Amy with his sharp pencil and Amy yelled "ooh my God"
Teacher said, "thats right Amy"
then latter talking about the garden of eden the teacher asked "Adam and Eve populated the earth, after having alot of children what do you think eve would say to Adam?" then John poked Amy with the sharp pencil again and Amy yelled "you poke me with that again, and Im gonna break it in half!"
Teacher then changed the subject.
Glad sandy took over from Steven as host, it always a fun way to find out info
Those were some dope pencils.
In cigarettes they are required to have a warning in the package and at the top it said “never quit trying to quit” the box was cut out in such a way that only the “never quit” was visible until you removed it.
As most people simply throw it away immediately without looking at it again it was subliminal messaging that they eventually had to change.
If a kid has a pencil that says too cool to do drugs, they're probably doing drugs.
100%
Surely the biggest mistake ever made with a pencil, was the ones the Soviet cosmonauts used. The US gets a lot of stick for spending millions developing a pen that could write in low gravity, but the bits of graphite floated into the instruments on the Russian rockets, nearly causing a disaster.
The biggest mistake would be giving it to John Wick when he doesn't like you.
Having a pencil near John Wick.
Actually, those weren't "Stephen noises" but a reference to Robert Robinson on "Call my Bluff" who made those noises. They made jokes about it before, and Stephen was leaning into that here.
I remember those pencils 🤣. They where funny. The DARE program in school passed them out. They regretted it😂.
There was once a constipated mathematician who worked it out with a pencil.
*Stephen Noises* might be my favourite thing I've seen on the internet.
Except it’s his impression of Robert Robinson.
Stephen noises are when he sucks air in around his tongue!
@@jamesthecat The subtitle came up exactly when he said the Robert Robinson “Aaaahhh”.
Yep, they're typical "English person" noises and Stephen does them best, I think!
@@weirdunclebob In the sense that Robert Robinson was English, yes.
I feel like there have been far greater mistakes made with a pencil
Accidentally killing a family member you thought was a home invader with a pencil…
Still one of my favorite episodes.
I was gonna say "looking too closely at the joker's pencil"
Makes sense in this world. The more you learn the more you want to do drugs to forget what you learned.
Incredible seeing both hosts on the show at once
I love it when Stephen slips into Robert Robinson in Call my bluff / Ask the family mode.
So they just put the rubber/eraser on the wrong end of the pencils then🤷🏻♂️
Yes if the first word to be removed were 'drugs' that would be nicely symbolic
I am DB Cooper and I left my fingerprints on the pencil that came in the complementary flight Entertainment package.
How the crack?
I don't think any of that is true.
I don't know why ever time someone says pencil, John wick comes to mind
big wig and carpet companies were delighted by the free 'rugs' promotion on these pencils though
I thought a constipated mathematician trying to work it out with a pencil.
A #2 pencil
@@Pacvalham Nah, a mechanical one.
Those aren't Stephen noises, they are Robert Robinson noises!
That's hardly the biggest mistake with a pencil
I know 2 accounts of ppl who accidentally got stabbed with pencils
I believe some people have lost their lives in explosions caused by graphite dust from writing with pencils. That's why the Soviet space program switched to grease pencils and NASA used Space Pens.
Love seeing Sandy on old IQ shows.
I remember that because we got those pencils given out to us in 3rd grade (which for me was 1998)
This is even worse because back in the 80s the Nancy Reagan, "Say no to drugs" pencils did the same thing and parents complained about their kids pencils just saying DRUGS on them... The fact that it happened again just goes to show you that some people never learn from their mistakes.
Thanks! I was thinking I'd heard about this many years ago, couldn't place it.
Sandi is just so smart omg
WE HAD THESE PENCILS. AND YES WE WERE AWARE OF THE HILARITY.
😂 that lady repeating the pwoblem with pencils so seriously, I can't
I remember these pencils they were great.
They used to have actual lead on the pencil. Yeah.
You might think it didn't last long, but it did.
Well you see.. the problem is that they were using chuck Norris as their mascot and everytime he would sharpen the pencil from the right side with his bare hands, it would always end up saying "too cool".
To be fair, it *was* a miscalculation of sorts.
The biggest mistake someone ever did with a pencil was to let John Wick grab one.
Stephen was such a great host!!
"Stephen noises" would more accurately be "Stephen making Robert Robinson noises". That's who he's impersonating.
that pencil is the legit progression of a lot of people's thoughts on doing drugs.
I figured they were going for someone who miscalculated a math problem, but write really large numbers. The biggest mistake.
These pencils are like life.
The more its used, the more it says what it wants.
Stephen Noises is weirdly the most accurate description
"hilaaaahhhhhrious"
I grew up in that era and had one of those pencils it was great.
Proud to be old enough to remember those pencils, and laugh with my friend when we sharpened them enough
My immediate thought was, "Playing doctor."
"Hilaaaarious", he sounded like friggin Hermione right there
Quite amazing to see Sandy and Stephen at the same time and now she is the host of the show
I remember those pencils. I wish I still had some. We sharpened all of them. 😅
"It's time for drugs!" in the tone of someone announcing a random show segment knocks me out me every time.
We had these and did this. Still gives me a chuckle. Must be a canadian thing though. We left it on and just laughed about it
This has changed my life, thank you
I knew someone who set fire to the school lab because they plugged the pencil into a powerpack after the teacher told us to do our own experiments, it was the same lesson that I blow up a powerpack after looping the circuit and creating a feedback loop.
Lead pencils probably were quite a big problem.
I would suggest the Sykes Picot agreement or any time where lines were randomly drawn on a map leading to decades of conflict, but drugs work too
I remember these. Thanks to the DARE program.
I had one!! good times xD i grew up in the early 2000s, basically same time lol
Oh! *Slap* Drugs!
That was way too funny.
I remember these, we laughed a lot in class
I remember those, we had a giggle
Thought they were going to talk about pencils on spacecraft and the issues with the graphite fragments shorting circuits as it drifted around in the zero gravity.
"It had to be a miscalculation"
Stephen: Oh, ooh, ah; how right your words are yet not the way you think
Well, dropping pencils out of aircrafts in WW2 to attract children on the street and therefore be able to kill them, could be one of the wirst thing ever done with pencils as well.
reminds me of the plot in Drawn Away where they made the pencils flavored but then the kids got addicted to them
That was no mistake. It had to be one of the greatest trolling events of all time.
Of course, everyone forgets about the Mathematician who got constipated. He formulated an equation, evaluated some variables, and finally managed to “work it out with a pencil”.
I had these as a kid, we thoroughly enjoyed the joke 10/10.
Reminds me of South Dakotas failed, but Highly popular anti-drug shirt that said, "Meth, We're On It." I also want this shirt.
I love Stephen Fry; especially as Jeeves.❤😊
Also, the paint coatings on the pencils of some brands had lead and other type of hazardous materials.
So when kids chew on the pencils, which nobody should, they become sick.
I refused to believe that it was entirely unintentional. Somebody in the pencil company must have known this