A VIEWER sent me this NES Donkey Kong Classics Game | Can I FIX It?
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2023
- This Nintendo Entertainment System Game was very kindly sent over to my PO Box by Chris. He's given it a good clean but still could only get a grey screen!
Let's see if we can do any better!
Hope you enjoy!
Steve 2 - Jak na to + styl
Steve 2 is a loser
Good effort. You should learn how to read datasheets -- your knowledge (or, rather, lack thereof) of what chips do what is holding you back here. I know that's kind of a theme of the channel, but maybe it's time that that particular tune shifted an octave or so ;3
Hint: the big two chips are most likely the ROMs containing the game, and the other two chips are "glue logic" that plays a support role of some sort. If you knew what the "glue logic" chips did, you'd be able to troubleshoot better -- and you don't need an o-scope for that, you can use a far simpler tool called a "logic probe" -- it's audio and light based. Quinn Dunki aka Blondihacks uses one, and look what she's accomplished...
@@laserhawk64 The two large chips are CHR(character) and PRG(program) data that make up the totality of the game. The small chip on the side, that's the one that handshakes with that obnoxious 10NES security chip to validate the cart (when it can't you get blinking screens) and the final one is the basic memory/logic chip to tell the cart how to work within the system in a way that extends beyond what the base hardware allows.
Hey if you ever need to swap a game board for another game board google bootgod. Decades old database of all NES/Famicom carts online with scans and data sheets basics of each, and also allows to search compatible boards to get a list to swap the right junk game for a broke game you want working again too.
@@TanookiSuit Two ROMs, an ASIC, and a bit of glue logic. Makes sense.
But if he knew the pinouts, from the datasheets, and what that glue logic chip specifically does... etc... that would probably help a LOT.
I enjoyed the troubleshooting anyway.
Ive been really badly depressed lately. I enjoy your videoes. Thank you brother.
Same. I'll hang in there if you will.
Jesus saves
Chin up bro, spend some time each day being for thankful for what you have. Motivate yourself to change what you're not happy with. You're an infinite being with unlimited potential...never forget that!
On Sega cartridges there is a trick you can do. Set your meter to diode mode check each pin to ground. The value on each pin should be identical, if you have one that's different value (relatively speaking) you can just solder a 1k resistor on that pin to ground. I was told this works because the diodes in those chips are dying and the trick forces the pin low. I've never tried this on an NES cartridge so if you attempt it please read up on it first.
I've also had a SNES Cartridge pass all tests, but not boot because the trace was broken right at the pin. I only found it because I reflowed all the pins and saw the socket spin.
"Hey mom, can we get 'Big Me' by the Foo Fighters?"
"No, we have 'Big Me' by the Foo Fighters at home."
"Big Me" by the Foo Fighters at home: 2:04
Hi Stez, just as a tip for the future.
When a capacitor appears to be an over achiever when tested on a simple capacitor value test. This can mean its leaking current through the capacitor. This is because of how the meter measures the value in checking the charge time. Hence if it leaks some current through the capacitor it seems to be a larger capacitance. Its always better to check ESR and leakage as well. Obviously replacing it like you did is another way to see if its possibly faulty.
Don't just rely on the measured capacitance it will trick you over and over !! You are a funny Guy Steve and you make me laugh, also originally being a Brit now living in the USA i like hearing your accent and appriciate your humor. Keep it up !! Thank you. As i also have a fixing channel i can appriciate the work involved in making your videos and you do an excellence job !! 👍
Great video Steve, made even more hilarious by the ads - just as you inserted the cartridge after cleaning an ad for and EVE came on . I'm like holy crap Steve cleans a cartridge and its turned from Donkey Kong to EVE - what the heck 😂😂😂😂
The pads on that PCB have been previously sanded, either by fine grit paper or a magic eraser or such. it can be done lightly and with very super fine polishing grits, but looks like someone blew this one out thinking it would help. Too much and you remove the gold plating, which is why it looks as it does. Doesn't affect connectivity so much, but is susceptible to corrosion if moisture is present, being what the plating is there to prevent. Basically, someone's had it apart and attempted fixin it before.
I would say it seems like a mask rom chip failure, you've pretty much eliminated most else that commonly fails.
There is a nescart database with pretty well documented chip data if you were curious in investigating further. But yea, once you get to chip failure, your options evaporate quickly unless you're willing to rewire/reprogram a replacement. At that point, meh... Sad to see these die.
Great videos Steve! Keep up the solid work!
Seeing those scratches kind of bothered me, like you said whomever did it got way to aggresive and ruined the little protection those pads had.
But could they remove all traces and leave the solder mask intact? Looks like cheap construction to save $0.10 then it was scrubbed all to hell.
Saw some NES "repair" video from a while ago that got quite a high viewcount, and the person was entirely too inexperienced to go fixing old consoles. So they were teaching completely wrong "repair" methods, including sanding the contact pads. It was painful to watch.
The PRG and CHR are ROM chips and thus not interchangeable. Donkey Kong Classics is on a CNROM board, so it uses a 74HC161 for mapping the CHR ROM. You can replace that as it's an off the shelf part. Though, I'd be concerned that the PRG is bad since you just get a grey screen. You can replace it with EPROM that has the PRG contents burned to it, but it might require rewiring some of the legs. The other IC is the CIC security chip, which shouldn't affect the Retron unless it's causing a short to ground or something.
well after watching all of your videos on main channel I came across your 2nd channel in my feeds, didn't know you had this one haha, now to watch all of them too. great stuff keem them coming.
Love to see “failures” like this - it helps me feel a bit better about all of mine :)
Good effort Steve. Its only a failure if its worse after you "fixed" it then when it came in the door.
It's worth trying freezer spray to rapidly chill a chip, it can cause it to contract and briefly work, so at least you can identify the faulty chip. Also hot air directed onto the chip.
Billy Mitchell sent this one in.
The SN74HC161 chip is a 4 bit counter (I had to look it up). That can be replaced--they are still manufactured and can be bought new. The lockout chip could be swapped with the other of the same model. Other than that, as others have said, the ROMs would need to be programmed with the game if you swapped them.
I'm not actually sure the Retron would care about the CIC chip.
Simple games you can actually mix and match the CHR rom. The graphics will be corrupt but you can usually see if the game is otherwise operating correctly, but it can get messy when the games start having CHR RAM or other more advanced features. And DK Classics is probably a touch more complex since it's got both DK and DKJ on it.
broke my OCD when you trimmed the capacitor legs before testing, If it wasn't the problem it could have been taken out as new.
But i still enjoy the videos
Generally agree with other comments. You checked the normal things. Beyond that, a chip could be bad. If it's a ROM then it can theoretically be replaced with a PROM, but the pinout is different. If it was the CIC lockout chip then the retron wouldn't care and a real NES would give the blinking red light. The last chip might be an off the shelf part. The US version uses a 4 bit binary counter according to nescartdb.
So replacing that chip would be something to try. Swapping ROMs with another DK Classics might be the only way to confirm if one is bad, and which one (though I'd guess PRG since it doesn't run at all).
Usually you’d blow on the contact pins on the cartridge and it works
Always worked 👌👍
Probably cuz the moisture from blowing on the contacts has less resistance than the oxide on the pins and the contacts which also contributes to even more oxidation.. since the cartridge contacts look like they were sanded or whatever, it probably reduced the connection on several contacts which is why this cart is a blank screen
OK, I NEED THE COW WHEN DESOLDERING IS GOING ON. CMON STEVE!
i would try to replace these ls74 chips. there are both logic gate arrays i had a NES game where one of them was fried. The other option is the Mask ROM as Nidhoegger666 said.
If you live in a country where it is allowed, you can mod your Retron 5 to dump the cart, once you've done that, you can take the binary and one from a similar cart that you know is working and do a compare. My guess is that one of the masked roms are dead, and that is the way to figure that out.
Side note: there's sites that catalog what chips are found in every known cart out there!
It looks like the memory chip can’t be read and dumped. Replacing and reprogramming an eeprom then rewiring it looks painful. Maybe check the sn74hc161n chip which looks like a 4 bit synchronous counter chip for accessing the memory, that would be an easy replacement and can be checked by replacement or by looking at how it’s driven and it’s output in your console.
Yeah, the chip holding the rom is most likely borked. From the comments it seems like a CNrom though I am not 100% sure. The thing is with certain eprom and eprom variants is that are all vulnerable to eventual failure via internal corrosion, bitrot or being exposed to sunlight or a very nasty magnetic field. Only way to really know is get an eprom programmer and check the data on it.
It says NES- CNROM - right on the top of the chip side of the PCB look at for instance 5:37
You can buy replacement PCBs for the carts. I would start with that and move the ROMs over while replacing the other two.
The 74HC161 is a standard logic chip (a counter iirc.), so that one should be easy/inexpensive to swap out. I even have a device to test it out of circuit, but getting it to me and back would be a bit of a hassle.
When people get pissed off and rip the cart in and out of the machine it tends to erase the chips sometimes, I believe thats whats happened here. You probably need to reflash the cart.
You can look up which games use that same PCB online by checking the NESdb cart database or similar.
As another commenter noted, the pins were hit with sandpaper or another harsh mechanical abrasive, which removed the plating. The "cart line" you noticed isn't from the cart shell, it's from Brasso most likely. Because of course it is. People need to stop doing this stuff, it wasn't okay 20 years ago and it isn't okay now 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Anyway, to fix, remove the PROM and CHR ROM and put into a reader and compare against online dumps. If they don't match, burn replacement and try again. You could also try swapping the PROM and CHR ROM to a donor to see if it works; if it does, it's most likely the smaller TI chip that needs replacing. The lockout chip isn't a factor here since the Retron bypasses it.
Good luck!
I'm here for the music ...
Wonderful calm video
Good job bud
did not seaclamvideo
Snake rattle and roll was one of my fave games lad
My retron won't read a bunch of my games till I plugged the pcd in without the plastic cartridge housing. Think the pcb is rececessed to far to contact just right that's my only issue with nes on retron 5.
I have the same exact game with the same exact problem. It's still in my collection waiting for a solution. Maybe these DK Classics have a high failure rate?
My guess goes towards a broken MASK-ROM. Happens rarely, but happens. The CIC is irrelevant, since the retron 5 does not care. If a MASK-ROM is fried, you need to replace it with an EEPROM. But it needs some rewiring to be compatible. P.S.: Steve, is that the Snake Rattle 'n' Roll Ive sent you? :D Did you have a chance to play it?
Not exactly... the retron 5 doesnt care about it thats right but if the CIC resets in short intervals even the retron 5 cant read the cartridge.
Had this to a game of mine and after i lifted the pin for the CIC it just startet to work..
Maskrom IC can be fixed / it is def the IC and i have fixed these in the past by a simple resistor trick / check the IC on diode mode with the positive lead on ICs known ground and negative on other legs one by one it should show 600+ value and if there is a broken connector you add the resistor 1.2k i think to the ground with that leg. Good luck
@@PanicsX1 The CIC in the Cartridge is in Key mode, only the lock can reset the console, as its connected to the reset line circuit.
@@Nidhoegger666 okay.. mmh i am not the most sophisticated in such things so i need to ask: a game of mine (Metroid in this case) acted excatly the same way until the CIC got disabled. I tested it on an retron 5 at the time and it gave exactly the same result until the CIC was disabled. How can this be if the retron 5 bypasses it entirely?
@@PanicsX1 I suspect that RetroN5 does not ignore the CIC chip entirely, since that also provides region info, which can tell the system whether to run the cartridge in PAL or NTSC mode. As such, I can believe it would fail to start a cartridge that has a malfunctioning CIC but would at least work with the chip disabled.
I was thinking he'd fix it in the end but he got stomped. Dammm. I don't even see what's wrong with the game either. 🤔🤷♂️?!
The retron 5 does not actually play the game cartridge in the same way other clone consoles or an original nes would. It just seeks to dump the rom to its memory and you play via an emulator. More than likely it is a bad rom chip that holds the game data since the retron is 1: acknowledging a game, and 2 not reading. It cannot read the rom. One example i had one time i had Super Street Fighter 2 for snes. The game wouldnt boot at all. I put the cartridge in a rom dumper i own and the rom data would allow me to get past the capcom logo but lock up on the title screen. I looked at the pcb later and could notice the rom chip got hot in one section at some point.
those card fingers are extremely worn as you noted. try tinning them to build them up a little and see if it gets a better connection?
I wish life was that simple.
John rigs had a issue where it wouldnt work in reptron but worked in real hardware you can that or transfer the roms on a new pcb replacements
First time seeing contacts being cleaned with one of those magic erasers.
It's either the lock out chip that's burnt out, or it could be a scam cartridge made to look real, the contacts of the Donkey Kong cartridge looks a bit reproduction to me, genuine cartridges have gold plated contacts, when reproductions haven't, but I could be wrong.
I think the Donkey Kong cartridge is a reproduction to be honest.
It may of never worked in the first place.
I've had cartridges that had pieces of black plastic crafted to look like IC's before.
It is a real board. Some say to try the board only, no cart housing and make sure that the retron5 is updated to version 2.2 or above. Beyond that if you have an original NES then try it on that. Not everything plays on retron5.
I'd take this on as a part two. Have a pic reader here to see if the game rom files are still on there.
You need to blow into it, always worked for me.
I'm wondering if it's time to throw that blue mat in the dishwasher to clean it some
What's the mooing solder sucker you use? Cheers
What if you change only the rom? Love U Stez ❤
Unknown cart means it's not reading the rom chip.
Use glassfiber pen/brush on the pins, allways works like a charm.
I think those tiny things are diodes and not resistors, and they may be dead.
Did you try blowing on the cartridge?
i would do what i did in the 80's..blow on the contacts and put it in the console..or you can solder the contacts on the gameboard to get good connection when it slides in 👀👀😁😁
Hi Steve. Do you know that this game will work in the Retron? It is not 100% compatible with every NES game. I have a couple of game that are known incompatible.
Do you think you could fix a Nakamichi SoundSpace 3 powers up ,no remotes or aerials radio scans but no signal pick up re no aerials. just says no cd bought this from charity shop been sat for years cd doesn’t spin so could be belt or maybe lens pics /video via email if interested.
I thought i was listening to Foo Fighters when the music started
Could it be a PAL/NTSC system conversion problem?
Somewhere along the line the card fingers or whatever we are calling them have been cleaned with a solvent that was too invasive hence the silver colour. These even look sanded. This is the issue with the card being unreadable
Maybe not. They still work on board.
Crazy to think how big the case was back in the day just for that size board
The story goes Nintendo intentionally did that to make consumers feel as though they were getting 'more for their money' - since people were very skeptical of home console video games after the video game market crash. Interestingly the Nintendo Famicom cartridges are much smaller.
I've always thought that electronics that are “too simple” can be as hard to fix as those that are too complicated, things like this, with only a handful of parts, once you've tested them, you're sort of out of options unless you've got a lot of specialist knowledge/tech/parts.
It's true. I tried to repair wireless headphones dongle and with no luck. Replacement that i ordered also came in broken. I tried to read flash image from it and program it into new chip but that didn't help in any of 2. So i have a device with it's main feature unusable, because I'm unable to repair (and no official spares available).
I had a game (ice climb) that wiped out the rom and turned gray. Baby that happend to that game to ?
Snake rattle and roll not played that in 20+ years
Hello my friend..have you tried to buy same game and open it and se the difference?
Try the game without the case on it. I have had three games that were black screens that worked when I took them out of the cart. I find that I have to wiggle them a bit with the cart off to get them to work. I am using a Retron 2HD and Gamerz Tek 8 bit boy.
you win some you lose some~
Maybe a working copy of the same game could be used in a side by side comparison of the motherboards.
You look like a kind teddy bear
What is that contact cleaner pen? Have you got a link for it? I've go a few Switch cartridges that won't read and i'd like to give them a try.
it is a ink eraser, lol
superabrasive stuff, to make holes on your pages basically
@@betag24cn I'm not an idiot, I just play one on the internet! I thought he'd found some decent fibreglass pen with an integrated brush. Oh well, turns out my wife was right about me :)
speaking of ways to clean cart contacts, I got some brasso for that task. works extremely quickly and very well
Try using a 400 or 500 grit drywall sanding sponge to clean pins been using one for 15 years on carts doing the same thing and 80% of the time it works. When nothing else will
try reflowing the pins just incase if all else fails you can always get a cheap cart as a donor board. by looking at the video the donkey kong classics board is a nes-cnrom-07. then just move the 2 large chips to the donor board. also keep in mind on the top cart this is H "horizontal" and V "vertical" if the donor board is V, unbridge V and bridge H.
Stez the fingers looked washed out as the gold plate has been rubbed off,
Nice try don’t give up mate 😊
Nice
I can't help noticing that you didn't blow into it.... hope this helps
Solid!
I think the cartridges was in diferent versions like PAL-A, PAL-b and NTSC. Is this version for UK? maybe is a diferent version? I dont know nothing about that only thinking..
Yes, this is the PAL version of the game. You can tell by the "NES-DJ-UKV" model number and the French text. Usually that doesn't matter, but some games were optimized to run on PAL. Sometimes this means the game will play slower/faster and may have black bars, depending on what system its played on. I did a quick search, and some people report that ~70% of PAL games work fine on NTSC consoles.
All I could think of was a reversed cart or a region issue; if not the pads being stripped somehow. Maybe? Alternatively, it could be a fake or bootleg cart? I am guessing with all these suggestions, however, but you never know!
when its none of the usual suspects and you've rules out the cic, in my limited experience if it doesn't boot its probably the prg rom and if it boots and the graphics are wrong its probably the chr rom
Never heard of a ‘multomater’. It’s called a multi-meter. As in multi meaning many. 😂
replacing one of the chips with dave might work!
6:37 Mmm... 😂😂😂😂
these resistors are actually capacitors
I agree C2 and C3
They are marked as such but in the video they look more like metal film resistors. I’ve never seen those markings on a capacitor
I wonder if John Riggs might have been able to fix it he fixes a lot of NES games
I've recently got a working one of this game I could send you to swappy swappy, if that might help
I sa some on solder a resistor on one of those chips and the game came back too life didn't know where I sa it😱
Did you try soaking in water for 30min?
As you have a name for some of your bits and pieces, how about Daisy for your solder sucker?
Do you have a grounding strap on? If not, why aren't you using rubber gloves?
I almost get the feeling the lockout chip is held in a nonstop reset in the cartridge, you could try using a different lockout chip and see if that solves it, otherwise you are probably out of luck if the ROM is dead, I have a Dead Genesis cartridge here too and I also tried everything possible and it likely also have a dead ROM I'm afraid. Stupid broken games
How many shades of GREY?😅
in theory you should be able to write a rom file to a programmable eprom that would be compatible with the pinout of the original chip. Zero experience with that though
Sometimes reflowing the solder works
Check out John Riggs Open Cart Surgery, he does a lot of chip swaps.
Well, if you buy a repro cartridge of the same game, you can use those chips
it needs a donor board of the same type so it'll be something like nrom, srom, lrom. donkey kong classics is on a cnrom board so find a game with that board
Take it apart and make a little picture to hang on the wall 😅
Tronicsfix just did a video on some games and he got the donkey Kong one to work
Man those pins are the worst I have ever seen. I clean and refurbish cartridges all the time and there is virtually no copper plating left on those contacts. And with the visible scratch lines it looks like someone sanded it all right off. That's gonna be a lot of the problem there, no conductivity.
I agree, the pins look rough, is it also possible during such a cleaning, to static shock a cartridge, or it's roms, rendering it basically dead
Crafty vape at 6:38? :D
You have to try different brand retro console I have several 500 in 1 games that come with it's own little console and and Sega games that don't work either
You can always desolder the rom, hook it up to a computer and do a comparison against a known good rom to see if it is corrupted.
Worst case, you can burn a new rom chip and solder it in place of the old one.
I don't know the ins and outs but I did see a video once on different consoles and how they handled copy protection with regards to cartridges. Even though a cartridge may seem perfectly in tact and working, the device (NES in this case) would fail to recognise it. I'm wondering if what you have might be a pirate copy of the game. There were ways devised to bypass it but only by modding the recipient device. I might be completely on the wrong track and the explanation went completely over my head but I'd say its worth looking into.
NES copy protection is that CIC chip on the left side of the board. If the CIC handshake fails, the NES reboots and tries again, so it wouldn’t produce a gray screen. The Retron 5 ignores CIC entirely anyway.
@@Dave01Rhodes I'd be Interested to learn as to what the cause of the failure to boot may be in that case. I can't recall what it was that I saw on this whole issue but I remember they shaved a very small area off of the plastic case to fix a particular issue with a cartridge not booting. I hope Steve re-visits this.
Realizing that you can't fix them all, there has to be a video chip that generates the video output to be able to play the games. Try looking up the chip numbers to see what they actually do and than look for the video chip. Could be you could swap such chips and see... Thumbs Up!
Those are not resistors, they're axial ceramic capacitors