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New Balance Rebel v4 vs Saucony Endorphin Speed 4
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2024
- The New Balance Rebel v4 and Saucony Endorphin Speed 4 are two of the top new speed training options for 2024. However, the shoes serve two different takes on speed-the Rebel v4 is light, low and lean, while the Speed 4 has a taller stack, full race day foam and a plastic plate. In this video, I put the two to the test in a marathon pace fartlek-style workout so we can see how they match up in the real world. Here's how they fared out there on the run.
0:00 - Intro
0:28 - Rebel v4 vs Speed 4 Overview
1:41 - Plan for the Run
2:45 - Rebel v4 Test
3:47 - Speed 4 Test
7:38 - The GOAT Test
11:53 - Post-Run Comparison: Rebel v4 vs Speed 4
15:09 - What They're Best For
16:37 - Durability
17:06 - Rebel v4 vs The Goat
19:06 - Rebel v4 Stability & Width
19:50 - Winner of the Workout
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Your 6 mile "warm up" is my max run. 😆
I felt that one 😂
You're not alone. 😅
That's my long run lol
Yup, long run as well
i want to let you know, the quality of your information and content is second to none. You are on top of the competition by a wide margain. Keep it going
thank you 💪🏽
Great comparison and in depth analysis. Loving the way you talk about the shoes immediately following each run. It helps to give us a better sense of how a shoe responds/changes as more miles are put into them. You might be one of the only reviewers that have mentioned that EVA based midsoles crease when they are broken in to get a softer feel underfoot. Most see creasing as a negative, but your point of view makes a lot of sense. Keep up the great work.
Great video and love that you broke out the Speed 2’s as a surprise shoe.
Dude you are just cranking out content and I’m all here for it. Def check out the new Brooks Hyperion elite 4, was on a lot of feet for the marathon trials
Think it’s because it’s an American brand. But the HE4 does look 🔥
thanks! and yes stay tuned on coverage of the hyperion elite 4
Really appreciate your content. The depth of your shoe reviews are second to none and I often have to re-watch your videos to digest the content. Your running achievements are also enviable 👍
Thank you so much for the kind words!
Adidas Adios 8 is my favorite workout shoe right now. Just love the ground feel input of the shoe and how it seems to strengthen my lower legs. Fast, light, nimble and I find it comfortable as well. I see no issues with using it for marathon training workout days.
Enjoying your content. Thanks for the comparisons. Speed 2 is one of my favorites.
I started running 2 weeks ago and I really enjoy your content! I'm training for a half in May. Good luck with your marathon prep!
Thank you! glad to have you here 🙌🏽
Just ordered some Rebel V4s, very excited. Shout out Quentin from Kentucky.
I loved the rebel v2 and v3 and I'll try v4 wide. V3 I needed wide since they went narrow in the middle foot so I'll try normal and wide for v4.
But yeah the reason the speed 2 was so goated was because it’s basically as fast as almost any racer on the market (5k-half pace) and was stiff enough to keep at those paces
Exactly. Starting with the 3s I feel like while they still do 10k-HM well, the faster you go beyond 10k pace the more noticeable it is in how much has been lost since the previous versions. At HM efforts I still feel the love for them, but once I'm at 10k pace they feel slightly in the way and the faster I get away from 10k paces the more noticeably they feel like they get in the way. They feel clunkier, heavier, and less responsive than their predecessors and for this reason it's harder to maintain anything faster than a 10k effort as I get deeper into a workout, where it's okay for the first mile or two but by the time I'm 3-4-5 miles in I wish I had something more aggressive on my feet. I've reduced my mileage so far in 2024 to focus on everything from my 1mi-10k which compounds the problem for me, as I'd bought the ES3 while doing 60+ mpw focusing more on distance.
I've been using the Magic Speed 3 to give me some of the pop the ES3 lacks for faster efforts. The ES3 and ES4 are basically daily trainers with uptempo versatility and a budget racing option for longer events, and not really suitable as a specialist in the rotation anymore, whereas the 1s and 2s were suitable both as specialists and as daily trainers (for efficient runners who could handle the narrow platform). The MS3 is a much more fun way to speed train on a budget lol.
Also, you should have over 100k subscribers! I love your content!
I was wondering about rebel v4 and damn u delivered!
I find my Speed 2s a bit unstable so rarely use them and have only done about 30 miles in them. They're great if I'm feeling good and running very smoothly, but most days I prefer my Tempus, bought at the same time and now at 230 miles. I'm looking forward to getting some ES3s in a sale as the extra stability should make them a good companion for the Tempus.
Definitely interested in the Rebel v4! But not sure if I should wait for the comparison to the Hoka Mach 6 🤔 I've had the New Balance Rebel V2 and currently have the Hoka Mach 5.
Mach 6 testing is coming soon! I'm super excited for that one. My hunch is it's going to feel a little more cushioned than the Rebel v4 given what I saw from it at TRE and the stack height. But stay tuned on that one - I should hopefully have it within the next few weeks
"6mile warm up" and I just ran my first 5k LMAOOOOO!!! Youre an animal!
I'm disappointed in the direction the Endorphin Speed has been going. I still enjoy the 3s for tempos and longer fartleks but that's really as fast as I want to take it. They do 10k-half marathon pace well but once you get somewhere between 10k and 5k pace they just drop off a bit for me. I never had the 2s but I had the OG, and those were much faster than the 3s (and from the sound of it, the 4s too).
I did my first speed session in the Magic Speed 3 a couple of weeks ago and they didn't protect my legs as well as I had more soreness the next day or two than I do after a session in the ES3, but I was flyyyying and reaching those top end paces without having to put in the amount of effort I have to put into the ES3, so the MS3 has become my go-to for training at 10k pace and faster. I did an interval ladder 200-400-600-800-600-400-200 (3200m total) and at these intensities the difference in top end speed becomes obvious. The ES3 is just too soft and clunky for truly fast stuff and it sounds like the ES4 is only doubling down on being more of a daily trainer. As for the MS3, I rate its stability as not as good as the ES3 but better than the ES1.
For those who are nostalgic for the ES1 and ES2, I think the Asics Magic Speed 3 is worth a look. Carbon plate, but not a superfoam (same FF Blast+ foam as the Novablast 3, but not the FF Turbo used in the Metaspeeds and Superblast). Very reasonable $160 price tag considering what other shoes are going for, and if you have a rotation, a better deal as I feel it specializes as a speed trainer better than the latest Endo Speeds, which at $170 I find hard to justify unless you're a one shoe type of person and don't have/don't want a rotation.
Anyway, my current rotation for anyone curious (you're welcome to ask me questions):
Intervals/time trials/truly fast: Magic Speed 3
Tempo & longer fartleks (approx 10k pace at fastest): Endorphin Speed 3
Long runs with speed work built in: Superblast (amazing shoe tbh, Tempus filled this role pretty well too)
Long, slow distance/Recovery: Triumph 21*
Daily trainers: Tempus, Novablasts 3 & 4, E Shift 3, Guide 16*
I would probably use the MS3 for tempos and fartleks too if I wasn't busy justifying the ES3 which I would prefer to use more as a daily trainer but don't in part because I work in running specialty and get seeded daily trainers from time to time lol, so I have a speed rotation and even a long run rotation within an overall rotation. I might have skipped the ES3 if I'd realized how much more of a daily trainer it had truly become.
* = pairs I didn't have to buy
If I was to simplify:
All speed work: Magic Speed 3 (maybe I'd buy a supershoe to race/time trial in)
Most long runs: Superblast (Tempus if budgeting)
LSD/Recovery: Triumph 21 (energy return of the Superblast easily tempts me out of keeping a long run easy; the firmness of the PWRRUN foam at the arch in the Tempus feels better in steady states than at truly easy paces)
Daily trainers: Whatever I get seeded or last year's models marked way down lol
You'll find the 4 is more like the 2 but more stable and protective.
I’ve been curious about the Magic speed 3 but still in love with my Endorphin Speed 2’s. The all peba midsole is just so fun and responsive that I can’t imagine returning to an EVA foam.
@@kurtbaumgartner8769 Fair enough. The thing is I might also have never even looked the Magic Speed 3's way had the Endorphin Speed not regressed in the 3rd version. To me it's become even less specialist and even more daily trainer, which has broader appeal and would be an improvement for the non-rotation runner but a regression for those like me who want more differentiation from the conventional daily trainer. The MS3 feels more energetic to me and more suitable for speed work than the ES3 does, and the ES1 and ES2 are totally different comparisons.
All my PBs are in the v2! Love them!
Your content is awesome man! The Rebel v4 is very intriguing.
But i would not describe the rebel v4 as minimal in any definition of the word 😂
Great reviews. I like how you give updates on the shoes you've tried. I'm wondering if you will try the same thing with the SC Elite 4. I've read takes on it that were very different than yours and I wonder if it's a similar issue that you had with the Rebel v4, giving that Peba foam time to break in.
I agree with you about the Speeds. The big advantage of the 3s for me was the energy saving capacity. I have really wide feet (well slightly wider Midfoot and much wider forefoot, with higher arches) so the width of the Rebel doesn't turn me off. My ES3s were in wide size, and for me the slightly wider base didn't seem to slow me down, it just ensured I was more comfortable. My take on the Speeds is that they are relatively lightweight (not as light as some, but lighter than workhorse type shoes), for me deceptively fast and really forgiving on the legs. I could generally go faster in my older Rebels, but I definitely felt much less tired after using the Speeds.
Thanks nick! And yes I'm going to run in the sc elite a lot more and give updates - that pair wasn't the right size but I have a bigger one on the way right now. And yeah great description of the speeds - super easy on the legs
I’ll take the upper fit of the Speed 1 over the Speed 2 all day long. (same mid/outsole)
Thank you for this comparison, Saucony wtf is up with their colors 😂
The new Fuel Cell foam actually sounds pretty good. I can definitely feel a 1 oz. difference between shoes. The Deviate Nitro 2 feels like a lot of shoe on foot compared to the Hyperion Max, despite the bouncy Nitro foam.
Been really enjoying your channel. Would love to see some of your workouts guides or books you follow. Always looking for new fun workouts and I see you mention a couple of them, like in this video. But where can I find them? Thanks.
Thanks! A great place to start is the Jack Daniels running formula book. I love his approach to training and how he breaks down all the concepts simply - he also has a system called VDOT that will give you all your training paces so you don't have to guess how fast to run a workout. There are tons of plans and workouts in there that you can choose from - the one downside is some of the workouts can get pretty complex. The other book id recommend for simpler but effective woks is the hansons marathon method. Even if you're not training for a marathon it has great info on all the basics of training and the workouts and easy to understand and execute
Would love a Rebel v4 vs Mach 6 comparison (once its out!)
Definitely!
Great video, thank you.
The Endorphin Speed 1 is the goat threshold shoe ever in my opinion!
Thanks for this comparison video bro! Currently looking at getting one of these but still undecided. I LOVED the Rebel V2, it’s the shoe that made me fall in love with running. Can you tell me how the V4 compares to the V2 ? Much appreciated and keep up the great content
I didn't run in rebel v2 but the rebel v4 is going to be way closer to that feeling than the speed 4. I loved the rebel v3 because it felt so simple but was also fast and fun. Rebel v4 has that same spirit. Another shoe that keeps popping up that people compare to rebel v2 is the Topo cyclone 2 - full PEBA midsole and below 30mm stack. that's worth a try if you want something simple, light and fun
Curious if you've tried the Topo Cyclone 2. A lot of fast runners I know really love it. They say it's like a souped up Rebel 1 or 2. Super low stack, with full Pebax foam and about the weight of the Rebel.
Not yet - that's on my list for sure
Sounds like you really liked the Rebel v4!!
Boston 12 have more ground feel than speed 4 ?
neither of them have very much ground feel. they both feel cushioned, although the boston 12 feels firmer especially until broken in
Great content. Have you tried the Brooks hyperion (not max or elite)? This is a lower stack shoe, lightweight, and no plate. Just might suit you. 👍
thanks! and no not yet - i may try the hyperion 2 coming out this year
Rebel v4 is only 20% PEBA in the blend. 80% is EVA so that is why it feels like traditional EVA.
Did you run in Brooks Hyperion Max. It is a nitrogen infused EVA foam and it takes 20-30 miles as well to break but very lightweight, bouncy and fast shoe. It would be good to compare Rebel v4 to Hyperion Max.
How's the sizing on the Rebel4? I had to go up a whole size with the Rebel2 for length; width was fine.
sizing is great in my normal 10.5 us - perfectly roomy toe-box. i would go true-to-size
I love my Rebel V3. I think I might be getting the Rebel V4 this year. Will you please compare Novablast 4 with the rebel V4 please
The rebel v4 is much lighter (in the sample size 9, around 7.5 oz for the rebel vs 9.0 for the novablast 4). Rebel won't feel as protective and cushioned for longer miles, but the lightweight make it a much better option for short and fast runs. Novablast has 41 mm in the heel, so very protective but not the most nimble or fast for any type of speed work. So if you want something simple and fast, go with the rebel v4 - for cushioned and protective go with the novablast 4
@@supwell Thank you for your detailed response. Your channel keeps getting better and you cover the right information. I think I’m going to need both of them. Novablast for longer runs and the rebel for shorter faster summer runs.
@@snowwalker9999 I haven't ran in the Rebel but I agree with Yowana's take on the Nova 4. The Nova 4 for me still feels great up to around HM pace on those days I hadn't intended to run this fast, but I wouldn't reach for it on a day where I'm setting out for a tempo run (which for most people will be faster than HM pace and slower than 10k pace).
How is the stability in the rebel v4? Compare to the speed 4. I love wide shoes but I need stability and I am bit heavier heel runner. Speed 4 are great for my.
what is the low-ankle socks that you are wearing? Link to Amazon would be appreciated.
Or did you get this color on the Saucony endorphin speed 4 ? It’s the best color !
New balance the goat
Controversial take here but As a thicker dude at 5'7 and 178lbs former football player I did not like the instability of the Speed 2. I prefer the Boston 12 for speed training.
Agreed on the boston 12 - I love how it's supportive and fast. That's what I'm liking about the rebel v4 too - even though it's lower stack it has that wider base and gives some great natural stability
What is your current favourite work out shoe ?
boston 12! perfect blend of supportive cushioning for longer miles and bounce for running fast
You ran a lot in the Speed 3, but aren't liking the 4. Do you find the 4 to be a much different shoe than the 3 or has your preference changed?
yeah i ran a lot in the 3 but had some issues with it as well from the jump - the foam feeling too squishy and mushy on long runs, not the most pop for faster than marathon speed work at my paces. idk if i mentioned this but i actually only ran in the second pair bc i got it for free hahaha the foam/outsole in the first pair broke after only 50 miles of use so saucony did me a solid and gave me a new pair. the speed 4 is similar but the major difference i'm finding is it's a little more awkward and clunky at slower paces - both from the weight and the way they changed the heel foam to have that piece jut out in the back
What are some shoes that would be comparable to the speed 2 ? Mine are getting kinda old and I can’t find any my size anymore
are you looking to replace them more for fast speed training or everyday miles? if you want something fast and firmer for speed training, i'd suggest the boston 12. if you want something for speed and everyday miles, the puma deviate nitro 2 is also a good option that's less firm than the boston 12. i'm also looking forward to the TYR speedworks coming out in april - it's the same beaded PEBA foam as the endorphin speed and has the plastic plate, but should be lighter and less clunky than the speed 4. stay tuned - i'll be testing that one soon
Thanks I’ll check them out.
I have the ASICS Magic Speed 3 and the feel is very similar to the Endo Speed 1/2. It has a training foam (FF Blast+), 7mm drop, full length carbon plate, and a light weight race upper (same as the Metaspeed Sky+/Edge+). Excellent shoe that feels good at an easy pace, but excels at the quicker paces. I’ve been recommending this shoe a lot in the past 6 months that I’ve had the shoe.
Personally, I found Hyperion Max similar to Speed 1/2 for tempo and threshold runs. It needs about 20-30 miles however to break-in, then have the same style bound of Speed 1/2.
Hi, I'm thinking of getting the SC Trainer v2 or the Rebel v4. If I can only have 1 shoe for all daily training, which is the better option? I'm just a beginner so I don't want too many shoes. Thx!
i would go for the rebel v4 for your one shoe. it feels more natural to run in - the sc trainer v2 is great but i wouldn't want to run in it everyday/as my only shoe because of the plate
So which one for more daily training?
rebel v4 if you want something lightweight with more of a natural ride and a little groundfeel. speed 4 if you want something more protective with more speed assistance. i personally prefer the rebel v4 as a daily trainer but if you want something that is easier on your legs, then the speed 4 is a better choice
@@supwell thanks for the info and getting back to me.
That look when 12 rolls in 😂😂
😂 pure panic
i dont know if i just missed it, but is the rebelv4 more accommodating in fit compared to the speed 4?
Yes definitely - rebel v4 has a much roomier upper with wider toebox. Speed 4 is narrow
@@supwell i just tried the speed 4s and they definitely felt narrow coming from 3 pairs of speed 3s
Unrelated but we need a tutorial on how you lace your shoes. Not having massive laces banging around looks deluxe
hahah thanks - someone requested this a few weeks ago so here you go czcams.com/users/shortstASsKW2FFEI
@@supwell you’re the hero we need not the hero we want
I have a bit of a hammertoe, any chance I would fit one of these? Rebel looks wide enough from the top;)
i think it will - upper is super roomy on the rebel v4. one of the best non-wide shoes i've seen
@@supwell thanks! Will try them tomorrow at my local running store:-))
What does the tattoo on her foot say?
The stack height between Rebel v4 and Speed v4 does not look significant. The eye test both seem comparable
yeah the way the rebel v4 midsole is contoured makes the foam look taller - but the stack is a bit lower than speed 4. rebel v4 is 30 in the heel and 24 in the forefoot compared to 37 in the heel and 29 in the forefoot for the speed 4
I think they took out the "Speed Roll" in the Speed 4. It was in the Speed 2 and 3.
must be nice to have alot of shoes..
Love the Speed 2. Amazing shoe. Hate the Speed 3. Speed 3 is mushy and boring.
Speed 4 feels very different to Speed 3 to me. Not as mushy and more peppy.
@@Fozzee.1970 Good to hear. How about the fit? Speed 3 was a bit narrow for me in the toebox.
@@i.p2088 I prefer the upper on the 4 and there is a bit more room at the end of the shoe. Width wise in the toe box it's similar to the 3 but fits differently. I think you would have to try it.
I enjoy the ride of the Speed 3 but maybe it's because I'm a lighter runner and I don't feel the shoe bottoming out.
@@icejam-xq5hj I'm a lighter runner too and I enjoy the E Speed 3 overall but it's just not the same energy when going 10k pace and faster, which in my case means it begins to feel like it's lacking something as I'm reaching about a 6:00-ish mile and faster, paces that felt great in the ES1. It may still work well for me for fast long runs with HM-FM paces but it's lost a lot of the magic the first version had in training at 5k-10k paces. The Magic Speed 3 has become my shoe for those efforts.
Sizing on the speed 4s is off. Super small and narrow.
I am very upset with Hoka. They had one of the absolute best shoes ever with the Hoka mach five, with a huge fan base.
The Mach 6 has just came out and they did a switch up on all of us loyal mach fans.
The shoe is now another but Clifton with a different foam. And unfortunately, would you believe they have added a whopping eight millimeters to the stack. The shoe has nothing to do with the original mach series as is only 2mm difference from the Clifton's, give or take. What on earth? Hoka now have nothing for those of us who like a bit of a lower stack and a bit of flexibility without plates, etc.
These Rebel v4 sneakers Seem to be a very good replacement, particularly with the
stack height and drop, with only 1mm difference in the drop.
I know the Hoka Mac 5 was one of your favourite shoes also, so so how would you compare these rebel v 4 to the Hoka mach five? Hoka have lost my business now and im thinking of getting these......
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