Classical versus Modern Dressage
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Video about the comparison of modern day dressage riders to classical masters, clips include Edward Gal & Anky van Grunsven - two riders who I don't particuarly favour and then my favourite horseman, Nuno Oliveria, it just goes to show that people tend to forget about the real riders and masters of horsemenship and everyone raves about modern day dressage riders and how they ride so 'well' if you put clips of the two together, you can see a huge contrast in the way the horse is ridden and how the rider rides, I am not telling people that they shouldn't like Edward Gal and Anky, but they both use methods which are supposedly frowned upon in FEI rules and regulations however, they get away with this, more so Anky as she uses the hyperflexion method a lot more than Edward.
Despite the fact he passed away in 1989, Nuno Oliveria should be praised a lot more than he is, he was a quiet man that kept himself to himself and trained his horses and produced some extremely well talented horses which he loved, but he didn't do it for the money aspect, the same goes for horsemen such as Alois Podhajsky, Francois Robinchoin la Guerierene, and of course, my favourite, Philippe Karl - who petitions agaisnt roll kur technqiues, these men should be getting double the credit that Anky and Edward Gal get for there work , because Classical Dressage simply is the best- in my opinion
Yes. It's two totally different pictures. Classical is light, soft, free to the horse. Modern is a hostage situation.
This is well put
@@ano.theart3050 Thank you, however, I will credit Ray Hunt. He used to say to us that he used to like to go to dances and dance with the girls. He said he liked to hold on to them as they went around the dance floor. And he compared dancing with a lady to riding a horse. He said that it wouldn't work out well if a person grabbed hold of the lady as though she were a hostage. A hostage will fight, resist, and become resentful. It has to be a cooperation, but someone needs to lead the dance. He often told us not to make the horse your hostage. He said it's a feel following a feel. Feel for your horse, feel of your horse, and then you feel together. I miss that man and those days so much. Rest in peace, Ray.
No such thing as modern dressage. It's competitive dressage and the problem is the two words don't belong in the same sentence.
It looks more natural and free for both Rider and Horse. I know which i prefer.
Nuno Oliveira trained many different breeds of horses including Arab, Thoroughbred and Warmblood ; they all exhibited the same calmness and superior impulsion as the Lusitano and other Iberian horses he trained. Oliveira did not train horses to a system he was a Master at adapting technique and knowledge to suit each individual horse. As an example of his approach he believed that piaffe was an exercise in relaxation and not compression. Klimke and Ahlerich went to Oliveira 6 weeks before the 1984 Olympics for help with collection and he virtually retrained the horse from the beginning, with the result that Klimke/Ahlerich won gold. Oliveira's knowledge and intelligence was huge but his love for horses was even greater and this love was felt by his horses in every aid, nuance and gesture that he gave them. The extra-ordinary results he obtained from really difficult horses (rejects) he specialised in towards the end of his life was a lesson in compassion and sensitivity. Please also remember his son Joao - see Joao et Donizetti video clip. I remember when Nuno was teaching some competition riders, he stopped and said 'so much push, push, boom, boom I'm not convinced you love your horses' - there is a lesson !
Centaur Albion: Thank you for that insight into Mestre Nuno Oliveira! Did you train with him? I would love to know more. I had a lesson with Joao and would like to see the video Joao et Donizetti.
Thats interesting. When I was competing and having regular lessons, my instructor was ALL about impulsion. She always said to me, don't worry about the head until the horse is going forward and coming from behind correctly. THEN the horse will be in the right frame to collect. All too often you go to shows and see horses that look "lovely" in front, but theres nothing happening behind, yet these horses win consistently!! When did things go so wrong? :(
It sounds as though you had a great instructor. Might I ask their name? Impulsion, balance, and jaw flexion.
Exactly, That is how I was trained in Germany.
Yeah, I respect that, I have passionate hate about rollkur and I just don't think anyone should use it, simply because it can do so much damage, and even if it is useful, riders such as anky will just abuse that and use it in extensive periods, it is such a shame that this is the case of course, thankyou for your views :)
That is beautiful. Thank you for posting. Classical is the only way for me and for my horse.
This is an amazing video, and I agree, that is why I think so highly of the riders at the Spanish riding school in Vienna, and also of the trainer and riding instructor, Manuel Trigo. But as far as modern dressage, there is really only horse and rider team, that I truly love to watch and admire, now I'm not sure if it is modern dressage, or a mix of both, but, Charlotte Dujardin, and, Valegro, are or were an amazing spectacle to watch.
My dear friend! It is so refreshing to know that there are a few true dressage enthusiast left out there who realize that the masters of old are whom we should look to for our knowledge! My trainer wrote a book recently and he often quotes the old masters. He teaches me on a constant basis that the Masters of old are the men who's training techniques have past the test of time and proven not only correct but at times flawless!
The problem is that if all you've seen, and the more you see, Judges awarding very high marks for incorrect work that incorrect work eventually becomes accepted as normal. Modern dressage is essentially circus to
I was at a Clinic with Anky and Sjeff in Spruce meadows about 2007 at the Masters. She was riding the bay horse shown in the night photo, and he was a dropper as soon as he was asked to engage she would pick him up and ask again and some tiny minded person decided to take a photo of him at that moment and publish it, nice. I can't imagine the incredible pressure Anky is under to please her sponsors and "Make" those high priced horses perform under the most difficult and unusual circumstances.
I don’t care what sort of pressure she was under from her sponsors - nothing justifies roll kűr.
love this video as it shows how far the dressage world has fallen! As PK says 'when an art becomes a sport and a sport becomes a business then the horse is the one that loses'
also what is the music? as it is so appropriate.
I would like to see a Classical Dressage professional and a Modern Dressage professional riding their horses bitless and see who does a better job. The one who doesn't jank, pull, jerk, shout, kick or get frustrated would be a truer horseman to me. Not just because it's bitless, but because they would take away the pain communication and if they have a good understanding of eachother they are better horsemen.
+GuardianAngelFanga Bitless = / = painless
In fact, horses can't escape the pressure of a bitless bridle if they feel pain.
+Syren Williams Why, yes, I know. Anything can hurt if used wrong. The difference between bits and bitless is, that a bit DOES hurt (even with soft hands), where a halter CAN hurt. A halter would normally only hurt when used too rough (which is not what you're supposed to do ofcourse) whereas a bit will hurt even when used 'gently'. It's a mouth it's in, and when applying pressure, you compress the tongue against the teeth and the gums. That has GOT to hurt
+TurkeyBurglar Jones I know. I never said that. Anything used wrong can and will hurt.
That is not true. He can still throw his head in the air for example. A bit they can't escape. Horses are constantly telling us they're in pain, by opening their mouth for example, or by swishing their tail and throwing their head up. And when they open their mouth, we tie leather straps so they can't open them and pull harder on the reins, tail swishing is nearly always shrugged off as 'flies' and when they throw their heads up, they get janked, kicked and recieve tie-downs so when they still do, they will yank either their nose or their mouth apart.
+GuardianAngelFanga
A horse that is opening it's mouth, swishing its tail, and showing other signs of discomfort/pain likely has a snaffle bit or is being ridden incorrectly. I agree with you on the part that nose bands are wrongful and only hide improper training... But a bit that allows access for the tongue or a bit that doesn't apply pressure on the tongue will lead to a content horse when being ridden correctly. I suggest you look up Myler bits and read the book if you want to learn more about proper bitting even if you do ride bitless.
+Samantha B I would agree in general. However, Baron Von Blixen-Finicke (RIP), former commandant at the Swedish Cavalry School, would have objected to your characterization of the snaffle has being a source of pain. He would said that it is the improper use of the snaffle that causes pain. He always encouraged his riders to use a large loose ring and disliked nose bands tremendously. The very first thing he would do with a new student was remove the nose band. His position that it was developed by the cavalries to provide an attachment point for feed bags. I had ridden with Major Bella Budjike (pardon the spelling) and a former Verden auction hall rider but the Baron opened my eyes. His entire premise disavowed the use of force. He disliked draw reins and martingales and only used side reins in ealry lunging. HIs emphasis was on communicating with your horse thru what he called "The Language of Touch" which was a language communicated by rider body position and leg position. If you can find his video series it explains it quite well as does his book, formerly published by Kenilworth Press. PS: He never fed corn, saying if a cavalry horse could carry a rider all day on oats the average sport horse could be ridden for an hour on a diet of oats.
My horse hero as a teenager in the late 60s was Alois Podhajdsky (an olympic medalist and director of the Spanish Riding School)who wrote "My Horses My Teachers" . The title alone speaks volumes .
Hard to type using smart phones. I do not see how Anky or Gal can score high in dressage competitions with their iron hands. Their horses have heads that practically between their knees. Good grief. True horseman do not need to show off their talents because they live for the true art of horsemanship which requires years of real hard work and patience. Neither Anky nor Gal has any of these qualities nor any patience to develop their horses naturally.
Nuno Oliveira is probably one of the greatest horsemen to walk this planet, no, I don't want to put clips of Monica, because its not all about it being exciting, but watching Nuno work with his horse gives me goosebumps, that is true horsemanship, I don't care if you find it boring, I think its beautiful.
Agreed, this is my first time seeing Totalis. Of course, I have heard of him. BRILLIANT and EXCEPTIONALLY GIFTED.
My two heroes and rôle models-Alois Podhajsky and Nuño Oliveira. Beautiful riders.
In the present day there is Manuel Jorge D'Oliveira, with whom I have been fortunate to have been on three of his clinics. He also studied with Nuño Oliveira.
Came across this by accident. I really appreciate the video, a beautiful message 👍
I haven't been happy with what judges are promoting as dressage in a long time but what strikes me most about Nuno's riding on here is the freedom, range of motion and clear gaits. IMO a lot of modern classical wannabe's forget this and the horse end up just a jammed up just in a different outline. preserving the purity of gaits and movement and the horse's natural charisma should be topmost priorities no matter what school we belong to!
Fantástico!!
Mestre Nuno de Oliveira: um dos melhores cavaleiros de todos os tempos!
I agree with your conclusions. Past masters rode three horses in harmony and without artificial and cruel constraints like Anky or Gal. Anky in particular has iron hands which are totally unrelenting. I do not how she can score high marks in dressGe comp
I think competition and ego and the huge amount of money that accompanies these endeavors is the link to the downfall of modern dressage. Rolkur should never be needed. It is, as everything is, about the money.
very good video. people today have forgotten what a classical seat is. and classical is not a training method like rolkur etc, it is a way of life!! very good my friend xxx
This is SO true, glad someone is speaking out against modern day dressage!!!!
Thankyou, and would be intrequied to know what you don't agree on, I know not all modern dressage isn't the same, but everything I have seen has been portrayed as this, I am a huge fan of Nuno, Podhajsky and Karl, both very great horsemen, along with other great masters, classical is the most beautiful thing, and Nuno was an amazing horsemen, glad you enjoyed the video x
My trainer has always tought me to ride the horse from my seat so that they reach for the conection rather then using my hands to pull them into it, I feel like they are happier when they get asked to be on the bit instead of having it dragging on the most sensitive part of them to force their heads down. It scares me what people will do to win some stupid ribbons.
As an ordinary person, who had ridden a horse 3 times in my life, but who likes horses, I see modern dressage as a sport with ulone goal - to make more points.
Many times I see performances where judges give high points. Technicly may be those performances are awedome, but watching them I personally don't have a feeling of lightness, beauty and freedom.
Totilas is a beautiful horse with awesome natural lightness in movements, but gigging into dressage back ground makes watching his performace not as breathtaking, as it was.
@lilmisshorsey14 thanks for your comments, when I made this video I think I was a little naive, I respect that and there are modern riders out there who I am sure have respect and empathy for the horse- but then I'm sure you all have classical principles in mind too- because that is what it is based upon!!! x
I personally would have loved to see your comparison feature the riders asking the horse to preform the same movement, or at least riding the horses in the same gait. It would have had more of an impact on those of us who are just starting to get into classical dressage as the contrast would have been more obvious. I think I understand what you are getting at though, but I do quite like the way Edward handles the horses. Totilas always seemed to be happy in his work with Edward.
For a grand illustration of upper level dressage movements at the highest levels see Taine and Lesage at the Olympics in the LA Coliseum in the '30's. Breathtaking!
I think Totilas looks like he wants to please Edward, I wouldn't say Edward's style is anything to really admire, though. Perhaps he is the most cooperative with the horse in regards to competitive-trained riders; the least worst. Totilas has a prodigious forehand, from breeding and some training, everything else about him is stiff. He's like a marionette, dancing up and down, flings his toes toward his nose.... It's hard to get past, especially knowing Ed trained him with Rolkur.
Edward is a rider who rides consistently from his seat & his hips. He's probably the most in tune professional modern rider out there & the closest to classical other than Carl Hester. You can tell big time when you watch videos of him riding Totalis verses after ownership changed just how much he communicated with the horse. Totalis wasn't stiff at all until he started training under Mathias Rath, who imo is one of the worst dressage riders out there in the present time. Any rich, snobby, spoiled novice using a rolkur is obviously going to use it incorrectly. I'm not saying it's right, bc it's obviously uncomfortable & painful for the horse, but there are those few riders who know what they're doing and can use the 'modern' tools properly.
Are you saying there's a right way to use rolkur? There's a humane way to yank an animals nose to it's chest?
Unfortunately Edward Gal is far from a classical dressage rider, and he does use rollkur. Lets not forget that he was disqualified in 2015 because he bloodied Glock's Undercover's mouth in Aachen and was photographed and videoed riding him with severe hyperflexion in the warmup. I agree that Totilas did appear to be better with him than with Rath, but that had to do with the horse's age. As more time went on, the effects of rollkur used on him by Edward Gal and trainer Sjef Janssen worsened. The reason he was sold to Rath's family in the first place was because Totilas was already starting to break down under Gal, and his owners sensed that and wanted to sell him while they still could. The only difference between Edward Gal and Mathias Rath is that Rath doesn't try and hide his horrid training methods, while Edward Gal and his sponsors do and sue anyone who tries to expose them.
please the crowd. Tension in the horse with exaggerated rider movements is the name of the game. Thank you for putting this video on.
Thank you for your video, l too am very happy working and training with French Classic, the masters are our gifts from the post to make presents to our horses today.
@bevinallison Exactly! See how powerful, free and full of energy are the pirouettes of Oliveira in this video. This is something never seen in modern dressage.
I think you vill find regardless of which modern riders you choose, none have ze finesse + grace of phillipe karl or nuno oliviera, without their use of their favourite spurs and head between the knee's dance. today it is not about lightness and beauty in a dance, but about compulsion and winning the money. I feel very sad for the horses who look quite dull in their work, and the piaffe never has vertical front legs it is always the bad triangle with front coming too far under chest. very sad :(
Classical Dressage is beautiful to watch. You can see the purpose of it - producing a horse that could maneuver naturally and with agility in battle.
Competitive dressage is rather sad in comparison - forcing a horse into unnatural restrictive movements mostly for looks.
the song is black beauty theme tune, i can send you it if you like :) and thankyou Mel :) I know, i think we could all benefit from classical training, because I think a lot of people I've talked to have thought its very restrictive, but it actually helps you in showjumping, xc, any discipline that you want to specialize in, it just provides good, flatwork and horsemanship and is beneficial to all type of rider, so I'd defanitely recommend it, if your wanting to read up on it, then i can
I don't believe modern dressage has to be forced. however the use of rollkur by quite a few riders is despicable. To compare neoclassical dressage to classical dressage is apples and oranges. As in any sport, figure skating, dance, etc etc. the sport is expected to evolve and become more technically difficult. it's like comparing Dorothy Hamill to Michelle Kwan. both are beautiful skaters and excellled their sports in their time. But, Michelle by far is the more technically advanced skater. If that makes any sense. Of course some riders use cheap or gimmicks to train. it's how it has always been. However, unless the federations penalize these practices the sport will never evolve in a kind way in regard to the horses.
J.C. Elkins Have you read Philippe Karl's book "The twisted truths of modern dressage" its incredible, he describes all the physical effects the different kind of training aids have on the horse and he talks about suggestions to make "modern dressage" competitions more geared towards gentle ways.
No I haven't, will look it up
Me acuerdo. Para mi el trabajo de Nuno Oliveira fue increible. Que latisima, que Anky y otros tienen tanto exito. No lo entiendo.
Edward Gal Does (or has) used Rollkur, there is video evidence out there. He may not be as bad as Anky but he's certain not innocent. Give me Nuno and his method of riding any day. I have to wonder how famous Edward and Totilas would have been if Toto was chestnut rather than black!
Hey also just wondering what music this is? its absolutely breathtaking!
Main titles from Black Beauty by Danny Elfman
FYI the shot of the horse Anky is riding at Spruce Meadows is a horse Sjeff purchased at a youngish age and he had already been over ridden as a jumper, before coming to the stableand had head gear used on him. He had exceptional movement and they thought he might make a dressage horse, however everytime he was asked to move out or sit and carry himself he would drop the contact and bury his head, something he already knew how to do when purchased. Computer chair coaches like you need to go
Classical riding doesn't squinch the horse into a "frame". The horse moves freely and is natural, light and soft. Modern riding, sets the horse into a frame and holds him there i.e. Rollkur. There's no freedom of movement of the shoulder to the tail and the neck is squashed and forced.
Even though I get what you're meaning, I don't like that you say that modern dressage is what Anky does. Just because she rides that was, it doesn't mean that everyone does that. You have to have more than one example on what modern dressage is. I believe that you have to see very many people train for more than a week to decide what is and what is not modern dressage.
YES: “A feel following a feel.” And who wouldn’t want to be felt up like that? 🤪
Rider and horse in harmony. Classical, perfect.
To be honest i don't agree with everything in the video, but i agree that classical was definitely more gentle and kind to the horse. Although, what was so special about Totilas and Edward Gal is that they had a great connection and this is what brought them as high as they were and if Totilas was not willing to do anything for Edward then they would have not gotten so famous. On the other hand i think that anky and sjef have a bad and torturous training technique. But the video was great!
There are great modern dressage riders out there. I don't know who does and does not use rollkur, but I love watching Andreas Helgestrand's WEG test on Blue Hors Matine, that was one horse who was loving her job. A shame Anky beat her to the gold medal, that little mare truly deserved it.
Modern dressage is not only Edward gal !
Charlotte dujardin is on absolute respect !
+FAVERJON Paul Of course they all aren't. But, when a world record breaking score is ridden that horridly. People will try to mimic it. I think that's the point here.
Charlotte was also seen using rollkur. Which in my opinion isn't acceptable.
Somewhere along the way, we went wrong. We let the sport become more about the medals than about the horse.
it 's so thrue...unfortunetly...i'm so sad that this man gone so fast...the thrue riding...is this riding, the maistro Nuno Olivera is one of the best horsemen of the world....he is my model...
For instance before about 25,000 spectators, at night under Oilfield type spotlights, with the British House band playing and hiding under the grandstand with little music lights on their music stands, umpteen children and dogs running back and forth in and out of the dark, and to keep composed and perform the highest level of dressage while speaking into a Microphone, on a nervous horse dancing around strange looking HUGE International jumps.
The examples are very bad. You should take two riders, who are able to ride their horses with a normal simple bit. Here you will recognize what is the correct way to ride a horse, the classical Philip Carl) or the modern (Ingrid Klimke)
They're using EXACT same position and using the EXACT same Pelham bit to achieve the EXACT same level of lateral flexion that Edward Gal is, the only difference is that Van Grunsven is riding a horse that is physically suited to that style of riding.
Wow🎉 so true.
no i know, but just in general i prefer the classical way of riding, Its just I'd rather ride like that, however, yes I agree I am sure there are riders out there who are doing fine, but I expect a lot of them have trained under classical principles, and god Roll Kur- bleugh, its disgusting :)
thankyou and the music is the Black Beauty theme tune by Danny Elfman, and to be honest, I don't really know much about Klimke or Alreich, so I don't know much about their work or training methods- insight me :) x
@JesusFreak494 - To be fair, 'Modern' dressage trainers (as the term is used here) are under pressure to get faster results. And rewarded in the ring by judges. Their methods tend to be more 'from the top down' rather than building the horse up through a solid foundation of exercizes in calm, enjoyable partnership with the horse. Most of these people mean well. Not all are hurting their horses through extreme methods. But grace. lightness, and oneness are often lacking.
I would have liked to see video of Nuno's horse performing the movements piaffe and passage in order to better compare the differences between the modern and classical.
I find it hard to explain to people because I tell lots of people I wanna reach the top and be at first place, but not alone and I think video sorta sums it up for me, I wanna be on top with a great friend and partner at my side who want to be there to y'know. I really feel inspired by those grand masters, I wish I could connect to horses like they do. My lease horses cando and I argue sometimes, but also seem to get the best out of each other anyway.
The horses head has to have rein so the movements are smooth and so the hardest movements look easy. Tight reins and rolkurs cause the horses movements to become bunchy and coiled + tight and limited
I feel today's riders have lost the freedom of movement and joy of riding that I experienced many years ago and carry with me to this day. My mare was never forced to do anything that was unnatural. She did dressage willingly and happily with no huge bits or martingales or unyielding hands. So sad that this is the way of dressage or even plain riding now.
Modern dressage is not all hyperflexion and rollkur. That is 100% stereotype. There are many dressage riders that achieve high scores in dressage tests while riding properly. Granted, your point is valid because Edward Gal is being less worshipped and more criticized because he rode his horse (including Totilas) in a hyperflexed frame and other riders practice rollkur too, even in different disciplines.
The thing is that to say that everyone who rides dressage today forces their horse into a false frame is like saying all barrel racers starfish. They don't. However, each discipline has a good and bad side and the only thing we can do about it is promote proper riding by riding correctly ourselves.
Unless of course, you're more well-known like Alycia Burton, Eva Roemaat, and Jesse Drent and can give clinics, lessons, etc. on how to have a mutual trusting, respectful relationship with your horse.
I 100% agree that there are modern dressage riders who are not trash but I would also say that the problem is INSANELY prevalent. There's this dressage youtuber called "your riding success" who is absolute trash. Yanks her horses head, is visibly agressive while riding, and shows about half the bad shit you should never do (also uses rollkur though idk if she knows it is or not? I've never seen her admit to it in any videos I've clicked on before but her horse is pretty much always behind the vertical and its painful to watch.) Her intro of "I'm a grand prix rider" makes me lol every time. I feel like the more fei puts up with it and the more people like her aren't called out for being abusive the more prevalent the usage or rollkur and trash riding will continue.
I agree. I never see anyone praising rollkur. It is always met with furious backlash on any of my online groups. People will soil these rollkur riders names publicly sharing personal information and essentially doxxing them. People hate rollkur. It isn't normal, at least in the US.
With all due respect to the message of the clip I really think that it is a good habit to take enough time to learn how to spell the names of people you admire!
@unicorndream I agree! I bought a little pony who has had a rough history and fights any kind of domination. So I am going to try Friendship Training with him. So far(we haven't even started yet, just took some advice from the web site until I get the money saved) he has responded to it like a fish to water! I highly recommend it as it does not involve domination, but instead peer bonding. I would be more than happy to share info or give the web site to anyone who wants it. :)
I agree. But now schow us modern horses who passage and piaffe the classical way. I only see Andalisian horses (they collect mutch easeyer) excuus my englisch writting
Where as Gal is, just like every other modern rider has become enamored with the modern warmblood breeds which have very long and graceful necks, so when they’re pulled past the vertical to achieve a higher step, it looks so strange while the Andalusian looks very natural because of their shorter broader necks. It’s the same style of riding, the same equipment, just different horses.
what is the difference between classic and modern? is it just the way the horses head is held? i dont know much about the showing part of riding :)
@horsegirlanna warmbloods cant be ridden so kindly? Hmm, funny how I´ve seen many warmbloods in my country totally opposite to that sentence of yours. And force isn´t the only way a rider should be able to control his horse. a stressed horse should not be ridden with total control on your mind. Control does not ease a stressed horse. And that is my opinion.
fantastic!!😍👍❤
There's no comparison, it's too bad that video of our old masters doesn't exist to compare fully. I was trained in classical dressage and modern dressage has become so extreme. I'm hoping that it will level out. Yes Charlotte Dujardin is marvelous, I wish they all had her heart and talent. Very enjoyable
Is she? I read she has really hard hands.
recommend some v.good books which are useful, Philippe Karls' twisted truths of modern dressage, one i'm reading at the moment opened my eyes to the truths of dressage and made you look twice when you watched a dressage rider, also, alois podhajsky's complete training of horse and rider is a fantastic book, there are dvd's and of course, Nuno himself has written various books, amazon them! I think watching the contrast of both classical and modern dressage together shows the difference in them
I realize you posted this 13 years ago, but I only just came across it. I rode for many years, mainly hunters and jumpers, but also took some dressage lessons. Ever on the look-out to improve my skills, I have a fairly vast collection of books on the subject, including Col. Podhajsky's. At one point I worked for an international dressage rider, who had trained in Germany, and mentioned the book to her. Her response was that he was basically useless, didn't know what he was talking about - well, you get the idea! I kept my mouth shut, as the job was supporting both me and my horse. But I watched various competitions, and noticed (going back to the 1970s, here), that the riding was not what I had been led to expect. Few light hands, overbent horses. So it had started, even back then. Another excellent book, which I feel supports Col. Podhajsky's methods, is called "Training Hunters, Jumpers and Hacks", by Brig. Gen. Harry Chamberlain, of the U.S. Its title may seem to have nothing to do with dressage, but nothing could be further from the truth. The basics are all the same, the principles are the same, the desired end result is the same. A well-trained horse that is light in hand and happy in its work. It seems to me that the dressage world has been having the same problems with judging that have been found in the world of figure skating. Consequently, it is not always the best horse and rider who win.
People like what comes easy to them.
LS The problem is that 95% off all people when they SITTING on a horse , they thinking that they " ridding" What a pitty for the horses!!!!!!!
أعتقد أن كل أنواع الخيول لها تدريب خاص مناسب لها فقط
@lilmisshorsey14 no it does not make sense.
if you ride modern dressage you ride according to the FEI's methods. Now I am not saying that you're using rollkur because rollkur isn't mandatory but that means you use low hands, you don't know what lightness is or how to achieve it and that is because modern dressage ignores it.
Lassiesuca - Thank you....
Any good sources for learning from these people?
This video is very misleading. The MAIN difference between the two clips are not at all the methods, but the horses themselves, to achieve the flashy gaits that dressage demands a horse must be able to flex beyond the vertical and hold that position, it’s been done from the beginning, Rollkur is the training technique that helps the horse develop the strength to do that.
You should have a look at Nevzorov Haute École... Thay do that without bridless! You should like it!
When dressage horses can do what they do without the rider having double reigns and slobbering mouths clearly in pain, without wringing tails and clear destress, I'll say they are doing something, until then I wouldn't let a dressage rider on my horses back. All you have to do is watch the mouth and noses on these animals and their lips....They are NOT happy free moving animals.
I agree with you regarding the modern dressage and it’s harmful effects on horses, however the horses you are referring to as great are clearly uncomfortable. You can see this if you take a closer look at the horses tales. Not only the neck issue is a common problem in dressage. Kyra Kyrklund is a master!
It's a a criminal shame the dressage world has chosen to completely ignore signs of a horse in distress -- tail ringing, bulging eyes, labored/fearful breathing, etc.- and institutionalized cruelty in the form of double bridles, in place of "pretty" movements.
8 people need to get their heads checked, I think a screw might be lose
I have a question.. Do you still know who the rider in 1:26 is? Thanks for answering :)
yes yes yes
What is the name of the music?
@JesusFreak494 - The principle of Classical dressage is the full development of the horse's NATURAL abilities. The goal is a partnership between horse and rider so they are like a centaur - they move as one. In classical dressage you will see 'impulsion', but not tension. The head/neck is never overbent/overflexed, aka 'behind the bit', but the poll is the highest point of the neck and the profile is vertical. Classical methods develop the horse from a strong foundation.
I can understand your comments agains modern dressage, which I ride, but there really is no quite difference. Dressage is still dressage and no matter how modern it gets, it will always be uncomfertable to the horse for some time while being riden.
it makes me sad to hear that you believe all modern riders use rollkur. its actually not the way to achieve anything that we want in dressage. some people believe its affective but it eventually will just deteriorate the horse's performance and only creates a very non-forgiving rider.
Tell me how would YOUR horses perform under that pressure? I don't care for some of the shots I've seen on You tube of Anky, but she is a very nice person and an amazing rider.
It's just silly to say the quality of the clips is too poor to form an opinion. Like that's the one thing holding you back from forming one. There's loads of others out there so go form one. That was just my point. I'm giving you feedback. The whole purpose of the comment section huh.
You purposefully choose the worst of dressage. Look at Blue Moon Matinée with Hegelstrand or Fuego with Muñoz Díaz.... I like so called ‘academic” dressage but this false division is mostly to make you feel special and avoid competition.
please look at " classic meets doma vaquera" and look at Uta Graef. This is modern dressage.
Yes I believe I am at fault here. Now that I reread it I clearly see you are simply submitting feedback about the video and not supporting modern dressage. Not sure why I got on my high horse but I'm off now. I apologize.
well u can take all the riding schools of the english and military style. it not just anky but a whole generation(s!) of them!
I think this is one persons view and a bit misleading and unrepresentative. First, Warmblood breeds are completely different to ride than Andalusian who have a different gait with high knee action and are different in temperament. I rather think there is a new better dressage coming along now where you see the horses more relaxed and not over bent. I have ridden both warmblood sport types and high school Andalusian horses
@decidido45 Me acuerdo. Yo pienso que hoy en dia el dressage no ha perdido todo y ahora anima rollkur que causa demasiada dolor a el caballo. Lo odio.
Classical dressage is so much more mesmerizing than this modern day horse abuse we like to call dressage.
Oh please, don´t take Van Grunsven as an example of modern dressage!!! why not Hubertus Schmidt, Matthias Rath, Kyra Kirklund, there are so many wonderful riders!!!!!!!!! and on the other hand, please show movies of Nuno where he is riding a warmblood (not a spanish horse, they have a short and comfortable back) with regular bite, not always with a Kandarre!!
i go with modern without ABUSE!!
The difference between Classical and Modern is showing. Classical Dressage is actually used in the training AND showing of Modern Dressage. Nuno even taught Modern Dressage riders. If you dont want to show, that's fine. I respect that. But you shouldn't bash people who do. I wish that Anky wasnt used as an example for Modern Dressage. most of us hate her anyway. It's not the people who ride Modern that are bad, it's how they go about the training. Because there is no real difference other than
Ask a competent veterinarian what modern dressage methods are doing to a horse, and you'd be shocked to hear how 'win at all costs' permanently affects a horse. When you ask a horse to give his heart and soul, do not crush it by making him do something that may ultimately shorten his life or cause irreversible pain. Sadly, today's standards have made classical dressage a lost art. We just don't take the time to 'understand' what is truly important.
im not saying i like modern dressage more than classical dressage but not all people doing modern dressage does that in your video ;)