Learning to Hydrofoil Dockstart with zero foil experience!
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2023
- After discovering @WakeThief I decided to learn how to foil. The only issue was that I had no foiling experience. What could possibly go wrong?
I go over some tips that may help you on your hydrofoil dockstart journey.
My setup is an @axisfoils3588 PNG1150 foil on a 75cm aluminum mast. - Sport
Don't look at the board while pumping, look up to the horizon and where you want to fly. You will feel that it goes easier and the foil stays more on the fly
😁🤙 You will then easily clear the 40sec
I was about to comment, "Look up and forward, not down", and saw that was the most recent comment! Yup, look down, you go down.
To try this from zero is really bold. My deepest admiration. 👍
Thank you for documenting this, inspiration! Hope you're journeying like a pro these days man
Great Documentaion of your journey. Some tips that have helped me. Try to keep your back straighter. You want to drive the force directly down the Mast. If you can find someone with a Personal WaterCraft to Pump behind it allows you to work on your technique for longer runs ("Pump Assist") Dryland Training - place inflatable disc on the floor, put your board on top. Place 4 lb dumbbells in your hands - Practice Perfect Pumps. Looking forward to watching your update video!
Good advice, thanks!
Great advice for me also with the straight back. What do you meen by inflatable disc. Like one for excersise. Like a UFO shaped inflatable? I live in germany. Think they call them different here. Thanks
I really enjoyed watching your efforts and progress. Congrats.
Most people won’t even be surfing when they get to our age so it’s pretty rad you’re doing what doing.
Well documented journey, thanks
I love your persistence. Amazing guy.
Inspirational. My journey continues this summers.
fantastic effort
Thanks for your great documentation of your journey. I am just starting myself in northern Germany. This will help a lot.
double thumbs up for the Rebillet soundtrack! And very nice to see the progression from the start!
Great progression. It's my goal for this summer to learn how to foil
If I may offer a suggestion on pump technique..
You seem to be assuming that you need to pull your knees up, which limits the amount of power you can put into the pump and causes inefficient fast pumping.
My epiphany came when I realized the physics of generating momentum from pumping. I suggest reading "how to pump your bike, according to physics" on pinkbike. This article applies to pumping a hydrofoil as well. The trick is that you want to raise your center of mass through the pump - so instead of pulling the board up, you push with your back leg and create power through the upward arc. This is what adds momentum as you pump.
On the large axis wings you can really slow things down and let the foil glide for longer. This is much more efficient 🤙🏻
Good advice, thanks! Finding those little bits of efficiency will make a big difference...
Amazing video! Of ocurse perseverance is the key! COngratulations for your progression. Now, You only have to try and try and try, And you will be better and better and better
Thank you!
Excellent video. I hope it's just a matter of perseverance before I succeed like you!
Thanks! Don't give up!
Great video. I found moving both feet closer together and finding the sweet spot both legs can work and giving far more powerful pumps helped me and have a little glide in-between pumps. Also trying to keep the board more level and there is sweet spot in the pitch between down and up and I find if I can consistently keep hitting it with my pump I feel like I can go forever. Best of luck with you foiling journey.
Great video! Thanks!
Very impressive
Kudos to you, Sir. I admire your dedication and look at you now, You are rocking it!
Great Video! Keep it up! "Broken ribs and public humiliation." lol
congratsssss!!! next shoild be beach start)))
So much work. I commend you. I’m buying a Lift.
Ha! yeah, it's work but oddly fun... I've got an E assist foil project on the go (like foildrive) I'm hoping to document...
Great explanations!
If you can pump, then winging will be easy, and it's a lot of fun.
Pumpfoil is much more difficult than wingfoil. With the wing you can use the wing to keep the balance.
I found a sale on a Duotone Slick wing over the winter... There's a couple lakes that get pretty good afternoon winds, so there's definitely more adventures coming!
This was a great video, and yeah the public humiliation is overshadowed by curiosity by spectators.
not giving up for over a year is admirable
Very interesting thanks for posting! It seems the power required is about what a racing cyclist can maintain for a short period. It seems like an incredibly intense activity. Could there be a breakthrough in foil design I wonder?
Check out the Wake Thief's "freefoiling" videos... and also the world record flatwater pumping guys... it's crazy... they're getting it in the 150 to 180 watt range and going forever. I think the freefoiling wing is under 150W... Of course they're 20 years younger than I am, lean, and fit...
The @WakeThief singlehandedly sold a lot of 1150 kits for Axis. Did you manage to get to 60s? Great documentation - I sometimes forget how hard it actually was in the beginning and how much commitment it took to keep at it.
He sure did! I'm close to 60s on the 1150 in a straight line, but my figure 8's are still at about 45 seconds... standing up straight helps a lot.
I've been messing with my E-assist EFoil I built... just put a new vid up... that's been distracting me from pump foil record breaking...
czcams.com/video/vHVuRl1syok/video.html
Good effort! If you learn to ride higher on the mast and concentrate on staying high - that's what will improve your time the quickest. Put a blue piece of painters top marking the top 1/3 of the mast - then as you watch back your videos - look to see how low you're riding.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing your journey. I want to be able to learn but at 53 and 220 pounds, I don’t think I could hit the watts. I do enjoy pumping with a wing as I have something to pull against and with the wind behind me, I can get some glide. Most foilers have to worry about sharks. You have to worry about bears.
I'm late 40's, but 165 lbs... the power to weight ratio seems pretty important. I'm hoping to learn how to wing this summer, I feel like that's a sweet spot in this sport. A big wing, big foil, windy lake, sun shining...
Oh, and forget bears and sharks, Canada Geese are the real threat!
No need to fret, even though I began at 55 years of age and weighed 211 pounds, it was simply a question of obtaining the appropriate gear and finding the drive. My initial attempt (one sesh) with a Sabfoil W1100 was unsuccessful , but once I switched to the AXIS PNG1310, I was able to catch on from the first session. Unfortunately, I had to take a few months off due to a spinal injury, but I'm back in the game now, with roughly 5 or 6 sessions under my belt. As spring arrives, I intend to concentrate more on dockstart and progress even further.
Selecting the right equipment and dock is essential for a successful start during your initial sessions. If the dock is low, opt for a shorter mast, such as a 65 cm mast, to keep your board approximately 15 cm above the dock.
Great vid. Thanks for sharing. Curious to know how u came up with the 200watts figure of energy expended?
The cardio effort feels about the same as being on a bike trainer at 200 Watts... it's not usually my lungs that give up, but my rear leg starts to get tired which leads to some bad pumps, which spirals into a lactic acid burn and a crash. It's a bit different than a bicycle where you can pound in 300+ Watts in a sprint and stay upright... once the pump technique gets sloppy, you're in the water... There's lots of suggestions in these comments about how to stand up straighter to save your legs etc...
bravo
It kind of looks like a pogo stick for water.
I love the part at 0:50 "You got this!.... Oh Jesus."
On the dock starts for goofy footers like u and me I make sure my left shoulder is more forwards and my spine more at a 45degree, plus I let my feet take the board from my hands, this creates a powerful first pump, I'm 170lbs and dock start with the naish 1240ha👍👍👍
Good info. It took me a long time to generate the power for a standing start... twisting your body into the motion as you suggest would generate more speed.
Unfortunately I'm not flexible enough to let my feet come anywhere close to my hands! It always feels like I'm going to hook my toes under the rail if I leave my hands on the board! More stretching needed!
Building your own boards….core score way up. Nice.
Hi, great video, great documentary on such difficult journey!
What's the ending music btw, it's excellent ?
Thanks! The music is just a jam on my looper I recorded... I'm still learning where all the good notes are on the keys... there's a different live version here: czcams.com/video/4fRFExCRFHs/video.html
Many thanks for sharing your experience and congratulations!
Quick question:
Even though I can pump in flat water for a minute, I am really struggling to start from the dock.
This is my setup: Naish S25 Jet Foil High Aspect (Front wing: 1.800) with a small board.
Do you think the setup is ok? Is Axis much better?
I have a comment below in response to @mihazidar4856 where I outline Naish vs Axis.
My main feeling is that Naish are faster foils and don't have great low speed lift (but have good high speed drag)... Axis has made pump specific foils that have great low speed lift that allow easier dock starting. The top speed of the Axis PNG stuff is lower than Naish.
When you get the speed right dock starting it will feel like you are jumping onto a stool, you immediately feel the foil flying and providing lift.
So I think it's just a speed thing... Here's some other pointers:
-The foil should be descending in the water when you get on, that way your weight drives the foil down creating speed and lift.
-You might need a running start for a faster foil. A 3 step launch vs my usual standing start will give a higher speed.
-You should get on the board in a partial crouch so you can push down and gain speed. The first pump is critical to gaining speed, but of course you need to immediately unweight and gain mast height. Fast cadence can help.
-Modify your dock to get as much height as you can handle... the foil should just be underwater, and you shouldn't have to jump too high to climb on the board... This can be really hard depending on what you have available at your local dock... I have one dock that forces the foil really deep, and I'm 50% at best... but the docks that let me keep the foil higher I have better success on. @paygr01 has some good videos on all kinds of different starts.
@@luxmonday
I really appreciate you getting back to me so soon. I will change the dock to have space to run and will let you know if something happens.
What a view
How did you make your board?
Im very very new to this, randomly remembered foiling exists and made up my mind to make one and learn it this summer.
I started with the @AndrewWorkshop channel. He has a couple foil board builds and his videos felt relatable. Also the Greenlight Surf Supply website has really good instructions buried in there, including accurate estimates for epoxy use.
I think making a board is a pretty accessible way to save some money... making a carbon foil would be super hard, but you can for sure make an OK board, particularly if you're looking for an under 30 liter volume.
My first 22 liter board used fin boxes epoxied into the foam. The fin boxes should be flat on top, some have a curve that should be sanded flat. This board works with any foil brand...
My second 12 liter board used stainless steel hammer-in metric threaded furniture inserts with a wood block as a foil mount. This seemed easier since I was only going to mount one brand of foil. I used twin stringers, one on each side of the foil mount, then it was just adventures in foam, fiberglass and epoxy.
As for design, I started with Fusion 360 on one monitor, and various board manufacturers websites on the other. Draw until you think it looks good!
@@luxmonday Alright thanks a ton, and have a great day/evening
I'm just starting to learn dock starting. How many days do you think it took till you were able to finally pump for 30 to 40 seconds.
I'm on day 4 and I still havn't figured how to hop onto the board correctly to even just get a small glide.
If you just dock start with no other foiling I think it should take a summer of 2-3 days at the lake a week... If you can get on an e-foil for a day or two and practice the pump motion at low throttle, you will progress much faster. (E-foil is so much easier to learn than dock, wing or boat foiling)
For a good drill at the dock, start your session with a few belly-flops on the board from a standing start. This is nice and safe and lets you get a feeling for the glide and center of gravity.
Many people like to dock start by keeping their hands (at least 1 hand) on the board so they have a 3D sense of where it is. I don't bend like that so I have a moment where the board is flying without me as I jump on. I think my way is harder.
Practice either a one-step launch, or a two or 3 step launch, keeping the run up the same each time. You need speed and accuracy which takes time. Make sure you clear the end of the dock each launch with momentum so you don't hit the dock if things go wrong.
Starting with the foil deeper in the water lets you build speed and accuracy, even though it is unlikely you will magically be able to recover from the low mast height... as you get more accurate and get mini-rides bring the mast higher.
@@luxmonday thank you very much
A small motor would help at the start to get velocity
When you get your arms in sync with your pump you will easily break 1 minute
I was working on this today, it helps ease the leg burn...
Whats wrong about a plywood Board? Ist looked quite well
The Epoxy on the screw holes didn't hold up and the plywood delaminated in the water. Glassing a foam core reduces overall weight and also reduces the swing weight at the front foot.
My third board uses a solid 2x6 piece of Fir to mount the foil and stringers to, and is otherwise foam. You can see it at 6:24. I waterproofed the bolt holes with Styrene tube and used Stainless Steel hardware in the wood. The wood should never get wet, but if it does at least it's not plywood!
I chose a direct bolt on mount instead of the fin box partly as an experiment, but it seems to work really well. I'm happy with Axis, and on small boards there's not much point in having a wide range of positions.
Nice work - and now get an eFoil...
Have you tried Efoiling or wing foiling?
Funny you should ask that... I just posted this: czcams.com/video/4j0ltST2FvY/video.html
My current experience is that E-foiling is the way to learn... Being behind a boat is much harder than e-foiling because of the rope and throttle management...
My wing experience has just been on a SUP with a center fin... it was the most fun I've had on a SUP, but I haven't managed the foil and wing yet.
@@luxmonday yeh I want to get into wing fooling but I have no foil experience so was gonna do some efoiling first then wing sup before trying wingfoiling! Thanks for the content!
No prop? Looks extremely difficult.
No prop... I think if you started on E-foil or on a big board behind a boat you could get up on day 1 and probably learn to pump in 4 or 5 sessions. But there's a lot of detail in the pumping to get efficient. It's fun going back to a SUP and having it feel like a dance floor!
You should have a life vest for sure and probably a helmet. Drowning happens really fast.
Where is the engine?
I've asked myself the same question a few times.
Rebillet? 😄
Yup, from one of his many live streams... he digs the stank.
@@luxmonday I've watched his show here in Warsaw. He threw himself onto the crowd of people and broke his finger. Then came the song "it hurts sooo bad that it's good" 😊 Guy is crazy.
Watts? Lol
put a kite with long lines on top and see what foiling is really about.......