I've been a drummer for 50 years. I've copied Bruford, White, Peart, Cobham - you name it. But I've never been able to get Jeff Porcaro's feel and chops. He was unreal. RIP to one of the very best ever.
His unfaltering groove was unique. I had never actually noticed the subtle 8-note pattern that he plays on the kick in the verses. Very meticulous arranger.
This is an example about why Jeff Porcaro was 80s drummer. You know, here you can take and understand how a drummer play for the music and the song. How supouse a drummer have to play. Very nice and amazing to hear.
Love the straight driving quarter notes on the bass drum during the choruses. Then funks it up on the last ones with those quick bursts. Just sick. Those don't have any impact without the quarter notes earlier.
Hearing the drums in isolation it almost sounds like he's dragging a bit where in the full mix he is clearly the engine propelling it all forward. That tug of war makes for a swinging tune. Minimal flash on a couple of fills and no accents that pull the listener out of the song, just the exact groove necessary to pull it all together. It's no wonder he was among the most sought after session musicians.
The consistency of the groove here is flawless. As was what both he and Bernard Purdie did on their Steely Dan tracks. What is amazing on this isolated drum clip is the soggy cardboard sound that sat so well in the mix. Especially when compared to the gated/compressed/reverb to death drum sounds coming out of the UK from the new SSL consoles. Both sounded great in the songs (IMHO) but the contrast is insane. I'm an old British Prog Rock and New Wave boy but I can listen to Boz Scaggs' Silk Degrees over and over. Jeff Pocarro's playing is a big reason. Now to upset everyone ... I hated Toto back then ... as if my opinion matters. Such a loss his passing ... what we would have heard is hard to imagine.
What we have here (probably) is a digitally rendered audio file, using "highly and/or slightly advanced" software that "pulls apart" single instruments in an already mixed down song, such as here, in TOTO'S "HOLD ON THE LINE". The net effect, is marginal, at best. In order to REALLY & FULLY obtain the isolated drums tracks to this piece, one would have to obtain the 24 track, 2" master session spool, running at 30 i.p.s. (from CBS Records), study the tracking sheet and ONLY LIFT UP the faders that correspond to the MANY microphones that where placed on Porcaro's drum kit. Hence, the sound of all those tracks would have NO equalization, NO compression, NO reverb, NO gating, NO other dynamic processing, just DRY AS DESERT DRUMMING. ALL THE EFFECTS to the final analog mix on "HOLD THE LINE" was done in the SUBSEQUENT MIXDOWN by engineer Thomas Knox. So getting back to the "isolation software"; it can ONLY GO SO FAR, by the means of parametric notching and artificial guesses & responses, to pull out what the software "thinks" are the specific frequencies that pertain to Porcaro's kit. There tends to always be ALOT of bleed-through by using this artificial process though, even when using the best, premium, most intelligent software...hence again...the creator of this isolated version, PROBABLY DID HAVE TO USE "GATES" in order to "filter-off" other instruments, that are in the similar frequency range, ESPECIALLY during the decaying portion, right after Porcaro hits his crash cymbals. So, in my lame-brain, 40 year experience of working in the audio & post-production field, that is my synopsis of what is going on here. BolsaChicaRadio
No gates used. What we have is what the isolation software gives us. The only post processing I do is a mild bump in the 11k range and peak normalization to -2 db.
@@IsolatedDrumming I see, I fully understand. Your small boost at the 11 kilohertz range, probably brought out more clarity to the final isolated drum audio file. Peaking your file to a maximum of -2dB under "0", is a GREAT idea too, in order to keep it away, from "The Brick Wall of Distortion". Forgive me if my contribution to this thread sounded crass, overly critical & like a "Mister-Know-It-All". That was not my intention. I believe I "may" have heard some of your legacy files from another channel(s) you once had a few years back, if I am thinking of the same uploader. You Tube has a reputation of 'banning' such GREAT channels, that contain GREAT isolation mixes & fully instrumental versions, that are painstakingly created, with ALOT of hard work! BolsaChicaRadio
No, actually, your explanation of the AI process was spot on. I have a left several comments on these videos explaining basically what you have explained. If I had the master tapes or access to them I would, of course, prefer to post those. What I do want viewers to understand is that this channel was created to get a peak behind the curtain, an approximation of what some of these drum tracks sound like on their own, as best as the AI I have can present them, but it was really created for folks to jam along with and to create some 'Ah ha!" moments for them when they hear something that may have been buried in the mix. They're not perfect and any audiophile would probably cringe at half of the videos I've posted, but for a guy in cover band who has a week to learn a song, I want this channel to be a resource for them. Also, this is my first CZcams channel, so the channel you referenced was not me. Lastly, as the AI tech improves, these should start sounding better and better. I appreciate you input, my friend. Thanks for watching!
@@IsolatedDrumming I would like you to offer an additional version with a greatly reduced volume track of the song itself to go along with your awesome drum track isolations ... when I'm trying to learn a new song, I'm not familiar enough with the tune to know where I am at all times ... I'm not a writer/reader, but a heart player ...
@@tompetteruti250 hows that? He is playing it as basic as it comes. Jeff was a good drummer, just not a drumming god lile hes talked uo to be by some. I love toto, but simmon phillips is technically more advanced than jeff was
@micahgrubb6867, I am not referring to technique, I am referring to his "feel," which is what made him a first-call session player. If you check out some of the fusion sessions on which he played, he had plenty of serious chops, however he knew when to use them when called upon - he only let them rip when necessary. He exercised great restraint and great taste. As Steve Gadd famously stated, "Fills (or chops/technique) are for thrills, but grooves pay the bills." Comparing Simon to Jeff is almost apples and oranges. I saw both perform with Toto, and all due respect to Simon Phillips - who did a great job, I prefer Jeff's pocket and feel.
![Toto - Africa / Hold The Line / Stop Loving You (live) [2024]](/img/n.gif)
The bass drum just kills me.
The extra notes. The dynamics.
I've been a drummer for 50 years. I've copied Bruford, White, Peart, Cobham - you name it. But I've never been able to get Jeff Porcaro's feel and chops. He was unreal. RIP to one of the very best ever.
I've been playing for 50 years as well. I know you're showing respect for Jeff. But if you've been playing for 50 years, I'm sure you got it brother
@@The_Watchful_Eyes Funny - all the well-known best drummers disagree. I have to wonder how you fit your head through a doorway.
You can copy all you want. Feel is individual. You'll never sound like Porcaro or anyone else, even if you can copy note for note.
@@The_Watchful_Eyes feel doesn't mean difficulty. it never has.
Tnx
Jeff’s pocket was so relaxed, love his playing
@@joedecker3900i dont know what this means
I believe it is the basic set a (session) drummer can play when asked
Porcaro's feel is sooooo the antithesis of a drum machine. So good.
The fact that he adds and subtracts different elements at different spots and it is so subtle...
Well said
As talented as that guy was, he KNEW what NOT to play. He played for the song. Awesome track. Thanks for posting.
I got to see TOTO back in 78 with STILLWATER& APRIL WINE great show, tickets were $6.00 the good ole days,😊
This is a man who knows exactly what's he's doing
The audio of his drumming would make great material for a masterclass. His consistency alone made him stand out, not to mention his feel.
His unfaltering groove was unique. I had never actually noticed the subtle 8-note pattern that he plays on the kick in the verses. Very meticulous arranger.
Man… pushing in that 8-Track tape of that Toto first album was a great summer for music for us ! The great records that came out in 1978 !
The Police, Toto and Van Halen debuted. Quite a fucking year 😂
I remember first hearing Toto and Tom Petty in summer of ‘78.
My favourite drummer of all time.
He was the groove master. No one else like him.
Gadd, Bonham, ...
What a groove that feels so darn good. Oh.. the feel!!! Will never be another Jeff, there's only one!!
Man ghost notes his bass like everyone does on a snare!!! Superb swing.
This is an example about why Jeff Porcaro was 80s drummer. You know, here you can take and understand how a drummer play for the music and the song. How supouse a drummer have to play.
Very nice and amazing to hear.
He was a 70s drummer too…besides playing on other artists records…this song came out in ‘78.
So brilliant, amazing groove
Love the straight driving quarter notes on the bass drum during the choruses. Then funks it up on the last ones with those quick bursts. Just sick. Those don't have any impact without the quarter notes earlier.
He said that took the rithm from hot in the summertime, by the stone family, porcaro was and is an institucion for musicians♥️♥️♥️
Ah. Quality post. I totally hear that!
It takes real skill to underplay in the moments other instruments are syncopating with you. It is obviously the thing to do, but few do it.
Parts of this song remind me of Mick Fleetwood's drumming in the Fleetwood Mac song Hypnotized.
It's funny you mentioned that because that's also on the list!
As easy as it sounds to play, it's a beast. To play a solid pattern without fills, rolls or cymbals crashes for 4 minutes takes severe discipline.
The only difference is that Mick Fleetwood's snare is always a bit ahead of the beat. That makes his groove so unique.
Holy s***... thank you brother!! this is the greatest to true Drummers ever!!
Your contributions are amazing
Much Love!!
Bigg Wiggle
The Groove King
But had tricks up his sleeve when needed
Groove reigns supreme
Tears for fears really like this groove!
So good!
Confidence abound!
It also sounds like “ the way you make me feel “ by Michael Jackson.
Hearing the drums in isolation it almost sounds like he's dragging a bit where in the full mix he is clearly the engine propelling it all forward. That tug of war makes for a swinging tune. Minimal flash on a couple of fills and no accents that pull the listener out of the song, just the exact groove necessary to pull it all together. It's no wonder he was among the most sought after session musicians.
Sublime
His drums were the lead instrument of that song.
All ❤
The only case along with Bonzo/Zep and Stewart/Police where the sound of the band is defined by the drums
Genesis/Phil Collins as well.
I would add Tool to that list also
Moon the Loon
I think there are more even cases where a band sound is defined by the drums, but can't remember now.
Uh...Rush/Neil Peart.
Ok..how about Vinnie/x? With x ="anyone who Vinnie played with"..i was just thinking to the impact of the seven days groove to the song...monumental!
sangat akurat, sangat rumit tapi juga sederhana. benar dewa drum
Bello/Magnifico.😭👑👑👑👑👑👑
The consistency of the groove here is flawless. As was what both he and Bernard Purdie did on their Steely Dan tracks. What is amazing on this isolated drum clip is the soggy cardboard sound that sat so well in the mix. Especially when compared to the gated/compressed/reverb to death drum sounds coming out of the UK from the new SSL consoles. Both sounded great in the songs (IMHO) but the contrast is insane.
I'm an old British Prog Rock and New Wave boy but I can listen to Boz Scaggs' Silk Degrees over and over. Jeff Pocarro's playing is a big reason.
Now to upset everyone ... I hated Toto back then ... as if my opinion matters.
Such a loss his passing ... what we would have heard is hard to imagine.
me, a covers drummer, playing every chorus like the last one 🤣
That is such a great snare sound...any idea what he was using and how it was miked?
Anybody notice that he never moves to the ride?
He’s basically coping the drum beat to “hot fun in the summertime” by Sly Stone and playing it on a straight rock tune. Sheer Genius!
Why not? Genesis coped the pre-chorus walk up as the main melody for "Misunderstanding"...
Well at least he was "coping" as you both put it...
@@IsolatedDrumming When I figured out Phil was doing that, I was like whaaat.
had me at hi hat
The drums sound pretty dry - were they gated in some way?
What we have here (probably) is a digitally rendered audio file, using "highly and/or slightly advanced" software that "pulls apart" single instruments in an already mixed down song, such as here, in TOTO'S "HOLD ON THE LINE". The net effect, is marginal, at best.
In order to REALLY & FULLY obtain the isolated drums tracks to this piece, one would have to obtain the 24 track, 2" master session spool, running at 30 i.p.s. (from CBS Records), study the tracking sheet and ONLY LIFT UP the faders that correspond to the MANY microphones that where placed on Porcaro's drum kit. Hence, the sound of all those tracks would have NO equalization, NO compression, NO reverb, NO gating, NO other dynamic processing, just DRY AS DESERT DRUMMING. ALL THE EFFECTS to the final analog mix on "HOLD THE LINE" was done in the SUBSEQUENT MIXDOWN by engineer Thomas Knox.
So getting back to the "isolation software"; it can ONLY GO SO FAR, by the means of parametric notching and artificial guesses & responses, to pull out what the software "thinks" are the specific frequencies that pertain to Porcaro's kit. There tends to always be ALOT of bleed-through by using this artificial process though, even when using the best, premium, most intelligent software...hence again...the creator of this isolated version, PROBABLY DID HAVE TO USE "GATES" in order to "filter-off" other instruments, that are in the similar frequency range, ESPECIALLY during the decaying portion, right after Porcaro hits his crash cymbals.
So, in my lame-brain, 40 year experience of working in the audio & post-production field, that is my synopsis of what is going on here.
BolsaChicaRadio
No gates used. What we have is what the isolation software gives us. The only post processing I do is a mild bump in the 11k range and peak normalization to -2 db.
@@IsolatedDrumming I see, I fully understand. Your small boost at the 11 kilohertz range, probably brought out more clarity to the final isolated drum audio file. Peaking your file to a maximum of -2dB under "0", is a GREAT idea too, in order to keep it away, from "The Brick Wall of Distortion". Forgive me if my contribution to this thread sounded crass, overly critical & like a "Mister-Know-It-All". That was not my intention. I believe I "may" have heard some of your legacy files from another channel(s) you once had a few years back, if I am thinking of the same uploader.
You Tube has a reputation of 'banning' such GREAT channels, that contain GREAT isolation mixes & fully instrumental versions, that are painstakingly created, with ALOT of hard work!
BolsaChicaRadio
No, actually, your explanation of the AI process was spot on. I have a left several comments on these videos explaining basically what you have explained. If I had the master tapes or access to them I would, of course, prefer to post those. What I do want viewers to understand is that this channel was created to get a peak behind the curtain, an approximation of what some of these drum tracks sound like on their own, as best as the AI I have can present them, but it was really created for folks to jam along with and to create some 'Ah ha!" moments for them when they hear something that may have been buried in the mix. They're not perfect and any audiophile would probably cringe at half of the videos I've posted, but for a guy in cover band who has a week to learn a song, I want this channel to be a resource for them. Also, this is my first CZcams channel, so the channel you referenced was not me. Lastly, as the AI tech improves, these should start sounding better and better. I appreciate you input, my friend. Thanks for watching!
@@IsolatedDrumming I would like you to offer an additional version with a greatly reduced volume track of the song itself to go along with your awesome drum track isolations ... when I'm trying to learn a new song, I'm not familiar enough with the tune to know where I am at all times ... I'm not a writer/reader, but a heart player ...
Noice..
Dio c'è... amen
Didn’t know his guy from doing too much coke?
His guy??
La Marlboro a la bouche était sa perte dommage pour ce grand batteur 🥁
Come on this isn’t original
Taken directly from the master mix.
You might want to train your musical ear some more :). This is SO defnitely Jeff's original take.
Needs more coke…….I mean cowbell.
That is undoubtedly the most boring drum track I've ever heard.
Super easy and basic. Great drummer, but basic .
Yes. He was so basic that he got to play on hundreds of albums.
It's not necessarily WHAT he is playing, but HOW he's playing it.
@@tompetteruti250 hows that? He is playing it as basic as it comes. Jeff was a good drummer, just not a drumming god lile hes talked uo to be by some. I love toto, but simmon phillips is technically more advanced than jeff was
@micahgrubb6867, I am not referring to technique, I am referring to his "feel," which is what made him a first-call session player. If you check out some of the fusion sessions on which he played, he had plenty of serious chops, however he knew when to use them when called upon - he only let them rip when necessary. He exercised great restraint and great taste. As Steve Gadd famously stated, "Fills (or chops/technique) are for thrills, but grooves pay the bills." Comparing Simon to Jeff is almost apples and oranges. I saw both perform with Toto, and all due respect to Simon Phillips - who did a great job, I prefer Jeff's pocket and feel.
comments like this usually mean the person does not understand the greatest are great because of what they did not play as much as what they did.
one of my favorite drummers. Impeccable groove. However, what's up with the cymbals? They don't sound right