Agora Analysis
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2019
- An in depth analysis of Alejandro Amenabár's 2009 movie, 'Agora.' Spoilers.
Works Cited (in no particular order)
Watts, Edward Jay. Hypatia: the Life and Legend of an Ancient Philosopher. Oxford University Press, 2017.
(The quote that I had up on screen is from this book, page 23, but my computer decided to cut off the final dedication to his work)
Bowersock, and Glen W. “Parabalani : A Terrorist Charity in Late Antiquity.” Anabases. Traditions Et Réceptions De L'Antiquité, PLH-ERASME (EA 4153), 1 Oct. 2013, journals.openedition.org/anabases/1061.
Barron, Robert. “The Dangerous Silliness of the New Movie Agora.” Catholic Education Resource Center, 2010, www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/persecution/the-dangerous-silliness-of-the-new-movie-agora.html.
(I used a still frame from this website so I feel obligated to throw it in here even though I think the article/review is complete garbage). - Krátké a kreslené filmy
These are my opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.
No need to excuse yourself with opinions. You present a point with a good analysis.
Also - you dont seem to do this often - while I think you should !
@@nagrimorziggs1567 I would LOVE to do this more often, but CZcams isn't a source of income for me. In fact, I lose money making these. I will never stop making videos, but the nature of the beast does require long periods of breaks to do other projects. So, I'm really sorry for a lack of a schedule but I'm a one woman operation in a very niche corner here who needs to eat.
@@moviemonarch1617 That... actually makes a lot of sense. I understand and I am sorry if I sounded like the next angry internet rando 'WHERE IS MY FREE VIDEO !". I am happy with what I have heard so far from you and it would be awesome to see more stuff. We need more well opinionated people on this platform so - keep doing what you're doing with whatever pace is comfortable for ya.
@@nagrimorziggs1567 Rest assured you sounded nothing like an angry internet rando. And I totally get wanting more content. Hell, I want to produce more content. But it is what it is. So thanks for being understanding and sticking with me. You guys feed my soul.
I love that you pointed out that the main relationship is between Hypatia and her research. It's knowledge for the sake of knowledge and I can relate to her because of that. The scene of the scrolls being destroyed hit me the hardest. I watched this movie with my mother and she thought Hypatia was foolish because she was removed from reality. She did not see the movie in the same way I did and it was quite frustrating.
The destruction of the library was horrible, but what got me was when she saw the skylight on the ceiling forming an ellipse as she died.
Its a fantastic movie. It exposes problems, still relevant today.
like using white actors to depict people who were really historically black?
@@mr.s1961 no, not really. I guess some people have problems with that, i dont really care. What i meant was that religion was stupid back then and it still is today.
@@mr.s1961 are you dumb or brain dead
@@mr.s1961the inhabitants of Alexandria were ethnically Greek
Great review. Loved the rant at the end. Never saw the American poster, since I'm from Europe.
This is one of my favorite movies. I identify with Hypatia's thirst for knowledge and every time I watch the ending I get teary eyed.
I'm glad you liked it. I clearly have feelings about the cover that won't be resolved ANYTIME soon but hope springs eternal. It's a beautiful film that's super under appreciated.
I watched history buffs review of Agora and had to rent it immediately after. I thought it was great. The pagans, the christians and the jews all had their moments of extremism. Great Review! Subscribed
Moments? In the IVth century Christians already started murdering each other. The Arius' sect persecution. What was the controversy? Arians concluded that Jesus was a son of God, but they didn't consider Jesus being a God, for logical reasons. Wars and persecutions on religion between Christians did not end before the XVIIIth century
Nah, the film completely changed history. The director said he wanted to represent how bad any type of religipus fanatism is, however, in order to do so, they completed changed history. Worst of it all is that the Serapeum scene could very well serve to that end, if they had actually show what really happened in there. Instead of showing an actual case of religious fanatism, they decided to recreate one twisting history. And the worst is that they had that very horrible event of religious fanatism in front of their very eyes, but decided to ignore it and convert a political issue into a religious one.
@@goodaimshield1115 well said, the depiction of the Parabalânoi is atrocious the art of the film is great, but the story is straight BS but what did u expect, amenabar is the classical leftist gay snob
that crapy movie is the last thing the coptic church need ,they have enough trying to survive being a minority in a country that hates them
Very nice video. I just saw this film for the first time. I'm not much of a history person, but this particular time in history is interesting to me given the political and religious turmoil taking place and how it shaped civilization going forward. This film instantly became an all-time favorite. One of the best films I've ever seen and I greatly enjoyed your analysis. Thanks.
You're so awesome in this analysis, I have to give you your 💐💐. You got straight to the point & gave major facts that were actually true to the film. Thank you!
I have watched 30 to 40 minutes long detailed film review videos on youtube and they are boring. I really like all your videos because they are not only precise but also engaging.
Also I admire you objective analysis of media which is rare to find anywhere let alone on youtube.
Aw, thank you so much!! I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
I really loved this movie, cant evem explain why. Great analysis!
Because you have taste, that's why.
Best review I've seen for this film good job
My favorite part was the rant at the end :-D lol
Thank you for this breakdown!
This movie made me cry in front of my grandma, I was sobbing trying to explain how important science is in my life
and how I felt for everyone who was persecuted for questioning and seeking knowledge
I found your videos by accident and i really enjoyed them. Your videos are amazing and so underrated. Please make more🙏
Comments like these make up for all the shitty ones I get elsewhere. Thank you. I am working on a new video right now.
Impeccable analysis, I can't think you enough. I thought the movie was incredible from an artistic point of view, whilst it displayed the role of a powerful women in ancient history. who influenced future generations. I don't really care enough about the subject to give time to extensive research on the specific timeline, but felt the need to seek for an analysis and here you are, satisfying what time tI felt a feature like that deserved, to uncover just a bit more of depth on the lives of the characters featured in this film. I look forward to more of your reviews.
This might happen in India. Rage is rising. Tolerance is seen as weakness. Don't know what will happen to Sanatana culture.
Dont concentrate the knowledge and our way of life anywhere. Spread it as much as possible.
Love love your review, I totally missed the movie at the theater, but just saw it and I lived the movie, and yes, I cried at the end! What the heck were the critics talking about?!?!🤬🤬. There is a lot of DRAMA in this story line! And yes these were not Christians, they were extremist! God is ❤️.
Khilji destroyed Nalanda University and burnt the huge Library their.
I physically flinched reading 9 million books were burned.
@@moviemonarch1617 Our civilisation is more than 12,000 years old and right now it is in danger.
It is very much possible that you will not see india as a dharmic country after 2050. All our Dharmic traditions would be lost. Christianity, Islam and communism are working against us.
Great movie . Must watch .
The last scene was like the death of science, how sad
It's my favorite film. Thank you for doing this!
My pleasure.
Your analyses are great! Whatever your name is. Do more of them please! Your videos are underrated
Aw thank you!! It's really hard for me to create more content as I am a one woman operation but I'll try to get something out soon. No promises though.
This is a really fair and well done analysis
I have read a lot of Byzantine History and I can tell you that the movie is accurate. It may not be accurate about Hypatia But about the Christians it is hundred percent accurate.
You haven't lol. There is only the Roman empire. No "byzantine". Right from the get go you reveal that you sit at the top of the dunning-kruger curve, peter.
@@Tzimiskes3506 HAHHAHAAHAH , you have a nice Nick , Why don't you check what that nick means ? Roman Empire at then was Byzantine Empire .
also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire or Byzantium .The continuation of the Roman Empire in its eastern provinces during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages.
Why Only Roman Empire ?
You need to do an analysis about the movie Silence.
I say it's going to be a LONG while before I tackle religious themes again.
and if you liked this film, i recomended thats film "mientras dure la guerra". dont know if you know what is, because its the latest
but still the center of the movie that Hypathia died for her research, and the connection of this with the library of Alexandria, or the idea that she was just about to discover heliocentrism if it were not for those pesky fundamentalists is pure fiction promoting 18th and 19th century mythology
Yes, I believe I said that. What's your point?
excuse me for my english in beforehand. thats was the one of bestes review i had see from this film, what i had to watch in the past was... AGH. i saw this film in the cinema when i was twelve or thirteen years, and i liked; i liked as the first opportunity when i could i bought the poster (ok, i thinks thats the name in spanish for wallpaper but i dont know now). Ok, i think thats so long and i can´t to explain me anything. what i whant to write its, that its a great film (with a many mistakes) and the people throw to it so much shit. sure, please, don´t kill me for my english.
Your English is fine. I'm happy you enjoyed my video and am jealous of your poster. Thank you so much recommending mientras dure la guerra. I had no idea it existed but I will be watching it ❤️
I'm curious why you define Christianity according to it's supposed abstract tenets rather than its actual real expression on earth? You say that the burning of the pagan man 'is not Christianity, but extremism'. But these sorts of acts (and worse) are common althoughout the history of Christianity, and very often were enthusiastically encouraged and condoned by Christian authorities and churches up to the very highest level - 'deus vult!'.
By that logic, the vast majority of Christian churches, priests and Christians themselves are not 'Christian', but are extremist? Who are the actual Christians then?
I didn't define Christianity. I gave an example of what it's not. What you read into that is your own affair.
@@moviemonarch1617 And my response is to give you multiple examples which show that Christianity was and is those things. Seems that you are unable or unwilling to engage with that point substantively.
@@stonem0013 Exactly. I don't do philosophical debates. Discussions? Yes. But your animosity levels suggest you're not interested in that. Sorry if this offends you, but I'm not interested in twisting myself into pretzel with a stranger over a religion I don't follow. Go bother another bridge.
@@moviemonarch1617 you've projected animosity, which seems to be a pattern for you based on your other defensive responses on this page.
@@stonem0013 I projected no such animosity but inferred it from your language when you first commented on my video asking why I define Christianity by abstract tenants rather than its actual real expression on earth. Such language implies juxtaposition. Which is fine...at first. But when you look at the language you used it becomes less fine. Actual.real. expressions. as opposed to my abstract ones? Hmm...one can infer your position has more merit than mine does because of those actual.real.expressions that you gave so many examples of, but oh wait! You didn't.
'You say that the burning of the pagan man 'is not Christianity, but extremism'. But these sorts of acts (and worse) are common althoughout the history of Christianity, and very often were enthusiastically encouraged and condoned by Christian authorities and churches up to the very highest level.'
This is not an example. It's a statement. You don't back it up with any evidence for me to consider. So rather than do your research for you and debunk it, I declined to engage. In what I thought was a fairly polite manner. But no. You came back saying I was unwilling to engage with you substantively. Which YES. I was. Mainly because you didn't offer anything for me to consider. So, yeah, sue me for thinking you just wanted to engage in a philosophical debate about the merits of Christianity on this world which, no. I'm not fourteen anymore. I'm not doing this. So I got a little more strict with my boundaries HOPING you would finally take the hint and just leave it be. But no.
So here we are. Like it or lump it but I don't care about defending or hating on Christianity. It's not my thing. I came to terms with what I think of Christianity a long time ago. You asking me the whys and reasons is a personal question. One I don't feel deserves a response. So like I said before if that's your thing, fine. Far be it for me to yuck on someone else's yum. But when I decline to answer please respect it. If not I will block you. Have a nice day!!
Many reviewer's say that hypatia is described as an atheist.personally I don't think so.What is your opinion? And I know it is not about romance but just wished she once kissed Orestes.
9:51 what's he doing to her ??
Nothing good.
My problem with the film is being West centric. The Egyptian church was part of the eastern church, the eastern church was in harmony with classical heritage, in the holly city of Constantinople statues of Greek gods like Hera and Hercules and Helios stood next to statues of Christian saints. The library of Alexandria was rebuild by Christians only to be burned down by Muslims under the orders of the second Caliph. Finally when the catholic crusaders burned and sacked Constantinople the local poets named the city "Helene of Troy" in their poems which proves that classical culture and Christian identity continued to shape the collective psyche.
You might have a point in it being western centric but you lost me when you tried to compare Constantinople to Alexandria which were two VERY different cities at the time we're discussing. Which is about 390-415. What applies one would not necessarily apply to the other. Yes, they were a part of the same empire but the distance that ruled them cannot nor should not be underestimated in terms of government, policies, and its people. Plus the difference between when the Serapeum of Alexandria being destroyed, rebuilt, then destroyed again is over 400 years. This is a movie covers maybe 25 years worth of history. Not 400. So your expectations are wildly out of proportion for what it actually presents: the story of a woman trying to unravel the mysteries of our solar system in one of the most tumultuous times of history for highly educated folks. That's it. It's not trying to give a detailed history of the library. For that you need to look elsewhere or write your own script.
I haven't seen the Movie... Yet.... I love your voice, love the way you Narrate this, But Be Neutral.. People would have enjoyed it more if you hadn't sided with Christ.....
I did?
@@moviemonarch1617 People treat Christianity more like a football team they root for than a philosophy which ought to inform one’s actions. I’m not even a Christian anymore and I recognize Jesus wouldn’t have approved of what was done to Hypatia.
I agree most of your analysis but l absolutely can't agree with davos behaviour towards hypatia.Hypatia is not like martyr as the movie depicted but still she is a martyr by her own way.
I'm not asking ANYONE to agree with Davos behavior towards Hypatia. Sexual assault = bad
?????
Do you read all books of the Bible ? It is important, because Old Testament is so cruel, but New testament is more kind and merciful. You can also find there cruelties and bad things. For example woman can not teaching or being priest. Jesus said in Evangelium of the Luke that everybody who doesn`t want Jesus to be his god must die. Secondly, Bible say that everybody who doesn`t have faith will be burning in Hell and etc.
Religious faith is dangerous if there is no power to suppress it with rational thinking.
I have read the Bible which is why I think you're misquoting Luke. As for the Bible saying everybody who doesn't have faith will be burning in Hell...well hell isn't mentioned all that often in the Bible. When it is, it's usually an English translation for the Hebrew word Sheol. VERY different.
Sheol means the dark place or without god. It's a void, really. Because they're not in the shining presence of their god. Sometimes Sheol is described as a pit, but some scholars think this is a reference to the garbage pits that were outside of cities where trash was burned. Hence the idea that hell smells like sulfur and is filled with fire.
Personally, I think the Bible is fascinating as a work of literature not divinity. Still...people who have faith in the teachings of Christ aren't inherently dangerous. They're only dangerous when they choose to cherry pick certain passages to try and justify suppressing others of their human rights.
After the British invading our Greek homes and land in Cyprus Greece 1950s they murdered most of my family and most of my family were only children. The Savagery of the British war crimes is hideous and the UK military is still occupying Cyprus, Greece. So for me, it's disturbing and anger's me to see British characters portraying my Greek ancestors, without even having any Hellenistic characteristics whatsoever, it really sickens me to my core, indeed. I know that these British actress's & actor's and other British people had nothing to do with the war, but there is still some semblance of hate within me towards them. There is an intelligent Movie to be made in English about Hypatia and the Alexandria culture, and Agora - (2009) this isn't it, indeed.
In Rome the Greek doctors were the best. University and library had writers from doctors around the world from India, China, Egypt, and even Mesopotamia.
A time when Romans thought of war. Greeks thought of philosophy in Alexandria, they thought of thought itself. Too bad, so sad. They couldn't put that in the Movie.
[18:08, 24/12/2021] -: Verse 34. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send [or bring] peace, but a sword."
[18:12, 24/12/2021] -: The Sword of the Gospel
33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.…
Berean Study Bible · Download
Cross References
Luke 12:51
Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division.
Revelation 6:4
Then another horse went forth. It was bright red, and its rider was granted permission to take away peace from the earth and to make men slay one another. And he was given a great sword.
Thank you for randomly quoting the Bible and not trying to put an ounce of context to them. I appreciate it. Especially since you took the time to quote the exact same quote three times in two different ways.
Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. I can only assume. And well that just makes an ass of a cliche so *shrug*
😂🤣🤣🤣
Most of it, is True.
&
Shows ,,,,,power corrupts.
Once the Christians have power.lookout.
No, most of it is....FALSE
Christ and Christianity are two different things. Christianity which is harsh in the movie is political religion. And as every age we went from light to dark. The end we are living now again but this time we will go back to the light like the ancient Greek age. Knowledge is coming back. Christ is a title and has nothing to do with jesus. It's a consciousness. A spirit of good. Christ is Charisma. The gifted one. We had christ or gifted ones in the past ages. Socrates was a christ or gifted one. Means who are very high philosophe. Very divine a level that is hard to reach. Another christ was Alexander The Great. Its not for nothing he was called The Great. He was a christ, a liberator of his time. They all were against the tyrannical system like we are living now at this moment at the end of our age and the new age is going to restart and with a new christ. But this time I don't know if its a person or us the people altogether against the system in christ consciousness. There is a say.. the voice of the people/folk is as strong as the wrath of God. Means All becoming One is strength of God.
And hellenism has never forbidden freedom of religion like Hypathia shows by saying we are all brothers not matter what. While Christianity of political power did all kind of crimes in so called the name of God. Which is a lie. There was a roman emperor who wanted to bring back pagan but as i said they didnt stop the "christians" as their belief was to be free to chose but that ofc didn't help as the Christianity wasn't thinking the same way and thats why it didn't come back but Christianity took power. That emperor was also an apostate by the Christians. And was even killed by a christian fanatic. Christian fanatics like we have today muslim fanatics. Same thing. Those christians are not to be confused with the first christians who were put to death by rome in earlier age.
If extremists have been such a large part of the history of the religion, then it is not a stretch to call religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism extremist religions.
Nice straw man. Thinking of going out for the Wizard of Oz?
There are evidences that the Serapeum was not a library. There's no contemporary mention of it as a library, not even pagans who hated christians and described what they did with all shorts of horrible adjectives and viciously insulted Christians said anythung about books. From their writings, it is quite delusional to believe that had Christians burnt books, they wouldn't have record it. Plus, the closer contemporary source about the Serapeum is from decades before these events, and it talls about a ñibrary in past tense, clearly evidencing it was no longer a library.
Your knowledge of history is very flawed and that's why you are unable to see how horrible the movie is and to what extent the film twisted histories to make the Christians look bad. It's also funny how both, you and the film, ignore why the Christians were destroying the Serapeum while completely mentioning what was going on in there and explaining ancient views on justice and their perception of evil.
It's simple: this movie is based on John Tolands Hypatia. John Toland was a neopaganist and a fanatic antichristian who wrote Hypatia with almost 0 ancient sources, based almost entirely in his antichristian imaginations...
I think I was fairly clear when I said I wasn't going to argue this movie isn't anti-Christian because what its displaying isn't Christianity, it's extremism. But if you want to continue to think it's attacking a belief system, I can't stop you and I'm not going to try. What's the point? You want to be offended be offended. Doesn't hurt me in the least. Nor does your unfounded accusation that there were no contemporary mentions of the Serapeum as library when there are. One of the most prominent being Apithonius's description in his work Progymnasmata:
people.umass.edu/dfleming/E388%20Aphthonius%20Progymnasmata.pdf
Scroll down the the 16th page. You'll find it there.
But if that's too pagan of a resource for you to trust there's also Tertullian's Apology, chapter 18, where he says: And the libraries of Ptolemy are to be seen at this day in the Serapeum with the identical Hebrew writings. But the Jews also constantly read them publicly,-a taxed liberty. Written in A.D. 197.
And I did explain why the Christians destroyed the temple. Maybe not to your satisfaction but I think I've already established how high I hold your opinion. So have a nice day.
@@moviemonarch1617 Aphthonius (Ancient Greek: Ἀφθόνιος) , that you mentioned as Apithonius speaks about small rooms with books not for a library and he is not mention any major destruction in the temple.
@@hkffg506 Didn't say Apithonius (oops, sorry Ἀφθόνιος) work mentioned the destruction of the library. Only claimed that he was a contemporary source who refers to the Serapeum as having books. Which he did. Books and records that were readily available to the public or said Tertullian who I noticed doesn't get nearly the scrutiny that poor Ἀφθόνιος does. Probably because he was writing 150 odd years before what we're talking about and therefore isn't qualified as a contemporary, I'm sure.
Also I wasn't aware that library's definition is contingent on how many books it holds. Goodness is there egg on my face! Thank you for opening my eyes to that new and improved definition that EVERY major dictionary was lacking. Those Oxford English Dictionary fools! How could they be so neglectful of what you--a complete stranger on the internet--has assured me is true. PFFT! Scholars. Intellectuals. What do they know?
@@moviemonarch1617 wow, you are really smart! So I can compare my library with ancient Alaxandrias one! Thanks, now I can tell to everyone how great my house is!
Hold up all this fact checking wat about her RACE.
Greco-Roman rule of north Africa had been in place for hundreds of years making Alexandria a massive metropolitan hub the likes of which can be roughly equated to New York or Tokyo today. Is it possible Hypatia was a POC? Absolutely. Is it possible she was Greek? Yes. Will I argue for one over the other? No, because personally I'm not sure what you seem positive of. And I refuse to brow beat film makers for choices they made over 10 years ago regarding a figure of antiquity whose portraiture has largely been white in depiction.
If this film were being being made today, of course I would argue for an Egyptian actress. But not because I truly believe Hypatia of historical texts could only possibly be brown and white makes no sense, but because representation matters. Every little girl deserves to see herself as someone worthy of admiration and respect in media. But if you want to be the one to make the case that the historical figure Hypatia of Alexandria was a brown woman, go for it. I encourage you. But don't ask me to take sides because honestly don't know. I just don't.
Agora tells the truth. It tells the reality of Christianity.
Hey if any one want to know this type of cultural genocide christians
Come to india
Come to Kerala...we treat our culture with utmost respect...we Christians worship in Malayalam and have many practices which you would regard as Hindu....don't mistake Protestants who hate on others for true Christians...
I hate the American cover as well! What an insult.
Just laim explain
The Scripture Gospels were never written by jesus or god. So any one who claims otherwise is an idiot who's never read the Gospels in Greek. The Verse of Matthew 5:44: You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. There is no evidence that jesus or even god said that.
I was enjoying this until 13:48. You say "this isn't Christianity, it is extremism" then immediately say anyone who disagrees are idiots and has never read the gospels, then you quote the Bible. That is exactly what an extremist would say.
How? Because I'll admit it's what an idiot would say (not that idiots and extremists are mutually exclusive because they're not), but I would argue my statement was more of a hasty generalization based on my own philosophical definitions of who does and doesn't qualify as a Christian given my less than masterful study of the Bible. Does that make me judgmental? Fuck yes. Is it a fallacy? For sure. But extremist? I don't see it. However, I'm open to the possibility of being wrong. So, how is pointing to a religious text that directly contradicts the actions of ones convictions considered extremist?