Spyderco Native 5 - S90V/CF - review and sharpening
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2018
- This video is a review of the Spyderco Native 5 in S90V with fluted carbon fiber handle scales. The video has discussion on the knife and the steel. The video also documents sharpening the knife.
- Věda a technologie
Healthy Edges how many people missed that gold nugget. Well Done brother. Time flew by watching this video, hit some great topics
Big Brown Bear I caught that. That a very good way to describe how we want an edge.
Big Brown Bear thanks man.
Thank you for the info. I just bought my first knife with S90V. So far it's been great. I really like this steel. Thanks again.
I Love Your Terminology and Constructive Criticism!!! MC Strikes Again :-)))
Never stop making videos man. I always take my time watching your stuff in the morning, drinking my coffee and flicking some spyderco.
E M nice.
This knife is a favorite edc for me, outstanding ergonomics and blade retention!
That Native is killer. I gotta thank you for turning be back onto s90v with a lot of your vids recently. I had a couple bad experiences in the past I’m now attributing to the particular knife from back then, and I’ve come back to s90v as a user steel and just couldn’t be happier with it. Rock on dude, great vid as usual. 🔥
Ranger Jon Outdoors thanks. S90V is a great user steel. Glad you’re happy with it.
Definitely one thats on my list. Absolutely love the fluted CF and never tried S90v before.
EDC with Aaron it’s a good one to get. It’s not a beefed up knife at all, but perfect for a high quality, light weight EDC blade.
Purchased this knife based on your review and you’re correct fit and finish is outstanding also how it fits in my hand makes it a favorite in the rotation but it’s a stiff one!
Tony Davis stiff is good.
Excellent information. Thank You.
Great stuff as always! Glad you liked the Latigo leather!
Ken Schwartz is da man!
Thanks Mike, for reviewing these products. I look forward to you review of the nano cloth from Ken.
Very interesting and informative video, thanks for sharing Michael ! 🙂
I got the 154/s90v version with saber grind and it's totally amazing, initially after "unboxing" it i almost had buyers regret. I looked at the knife and the quality and fit and finish was 5/5 but i was thinking what am I supposed to do with this "stocky" little knife 🤷🏻♂️ so i took it to work and put in some punishing work to see what it was about and it worked amazingly. Funny how little dislike of a knife then putting it through something that you wouldn't necessarily do with your favorite knives changes your opinion. But the best part about the knife is resharpening, it really baffles me how easily this s90v gets sharp and how good of an polish the edge takes and this is after DMT 600 and Spyderco UF + strops.
Awesome vid!
Another really informative video. Comparing this with your recent Para 3 review gives some excellent guidance on sharpening S90V.
The native 5 cutlery shop exclusive with s90v orange frn/dlc coating is pretty cool. I switch back and forth with my native 5 & para 3 s30v.
I always watch, but I don't think I've ever made a comment to one of your videos. I really enjoy the content, and have learned a lot. Thanks.
Bob Snyder thanks for watching.
Great review I’m trying to choose which platform to get s110v steel in. This is very helpful thanks 😊
WoW, thank you 👍
Some of the best ergos in the biz. Ya the para 3 really needs to be thinner. After a few hard sharpenings its thick
Do you think the compound sticks better to the surface of that leather? I am running into issues with the either the diamond abrasive or the steel being removed loading, or seeming to dust the surface of the strop.
After getting para 3 in s90v i have really started to prefer it over s110v. Just easier to sharpen and in use can't really tell difference in edge retention. Can't wait till para3 comes out in cpm rex 45, i missed the opportunity to get Delica in hap40 so im excited for this one.
Oozy9Millimeetah I’m looking forward to it.
I grabbed the wharncliff HAP40 delica but still gonna grab the para 3 in Rex 45 lol
@Mike Neil oh i got one! I completely missed the moring it went on sale... Never got an email notification... I was fucking pissed!
I was walking out of jury duty when i got a notification from CZcams from BBB... It was his post about DLT trading having some! I freaked! Went on and grabbed one!
Would totally have paid $200 for it if i had too lol
Its my favorite knife since i got it.
The F@F is perfect, its my first Para 3... The model is great... Perfect size and ergos.
And the REX45.... They hit it perfect.
Hey I have a couple questions. Im having trouble getting my mini griptilian 556-1 (cpm20cv) to a high level of sharpness like I do on my other knives (kershaw leek - 14c28n, and spyderco ladybug in zdp 189) I can get it to shave hair but not as well as the other steels I mention. Im sharpening with a lansky system using diamond and them ceramic and then there super Safire. (600 grit diamond, 1000 grit ceramic, 2000 grit safire.) And then I use lanskys strops loaded with 7,3.5,1,0.5 micron paste from Temo. Am I just not taking cpm 20cv far enough to get that super sharp edge or are there some other variables I could check out? Iv gotten 14c28n to whittle a hair before but not the other steels but I know it has a very fine grain structure. And I would like to point out that on the mini grip I get very very slight chiping it seems while sharpening but the more I resharpen it the less is seems to have that tiny chipping, im thinking it could have a burnt edge and that could have something to do with it as im not getting the edge retention I was expecting with this steel. Sorry I know this is long but I wanted to hear from someone that knows alot more then I do about this topic.
If i have a courser diamond strop (4 micron) for initial burr removal what is the effect of jumping to my 1/2 micron for finishing? Is it a more aggressive edge? I always see that you go through big progressions with strops but i cant see why if the burr is gone.
I did a double take when I saw your name. How ya been dude?? I just ordered the Native 5 Lightweight…I’m not a big Spyderco fan other than this and the Shaman…so this is my first one…we’ll see if it changes my mind!
It's interesting to me that for quite some time, I was under the impression that mono diamond was simply more effective or consistent than poly. But I suspect that came from some sharpening tips guide I read very early in the hobby. It reminds me of how very few issues are so cut and dry, and that I have to question my own cognitive biases.
Do you have an experience with the native chief? I have the s90v cf one on the way. Thinking about doing my own contoured cf handles.
Would you recommend atoma diamond plates or venev stones and what grits would you get to get going?
Mic Drop
man that was a good video. ive always wanted one of these but just never got the chance to pick one up yet.
was the 4 micron Ken Shwartz also?
Tactical Center thanks.
The 4 micron was Jende. Very good stuff for removing any burr.
Great video I just Touch up My pocket knives I don’t use them hard . But my hunting knives require a full sharpen After hunting season . My pocket knives are also steel with low vanadium in them .
little woody not too far back I talked to a guy on one of the groups that was having a chipping issue with M4. In discussing the details with him, came to find out he had been doing touch ups for a year, which would cause the problem. I mention it just to make the point, even something as tough and strong as M4 will eventually have a problem with just getting touch ups.
Wow thanks for heads up .
The most important pro of the knife i suppose is the countored handle, this it can be balance with the short blade.
Ces Bma I think the knife was well done overall. The handle is definitely nice.
You also reviewed a Native 5 s110v/cf. Would you recommend this s90v/cf instead? I guess you prefer s90v for its toughness.
Hey Michael, long time listener haha! :) I watch your channel and look at you IG posts almost daily and was curious if youve had an opportunity to take stock of your collection recently and see how many knives you have? Personally I have about 20 in my collection and the titanium framelock Military (I have all 3 they put out, fluted, plain and CF s90v) is my favorite model. I know its a question you probably get a lot but do you have a couple knives that you tend to favor?
What do you mean by fatigued steel and how do touch ups do that?
👍Great videos and info you put out there.Michael you're a very talented guy brother! I got a question man. I see that u take your edges to a very refined edge. My question is how to you go so high in refinement and still get edges that are still hair whittling, and yet at the same time still have plenty of bite or slicing aggression? That's inpressive man! Just say I stop at ultra fine ceramic, which diamond spray do I need to strop on? Which spray leaves a refined , but also a aggressive slicing action with still plenty of bite? Mono diamond or poly diamond? Is it best to use these sprays on basswood or on leather?
Thanks Mike!
Michael Shults there’s a lot of variables. I need to do a whole video on it.
Michael Christy When you get a chance I would like to see that video! !
Can you add a link to the stones you use for S90V?
I love my maxamet native 5, talk about a hard-use folder that will still be nice and light/slim for EDC it's a bad muh fugga but damnitt I have a hard time getting it to a sticky edge and the level of sharpness I like lol
kevin auman that’s surprising. Maxamet sharpens pretty well. What stones are you using?
@@michaelchristy4982 well I have actually tried a few different stones on it, first the terrible idea I had was to put it on my worksharp which rounded the tip right off of it lol and then I tried a cheap jap water stone 600/1000, lansky turn box ceramic rods, lanksy deluxe guided system, worksharp field sharpener I just recently started messing with 1mic diamond spray on leather but have not tried it on that knife... why would be a good inexpensive stone or stones you would recommend?
How do s90v and s110v compare in your experience with regard to edge retention and toughness?
Ryan Bryant S90V is tougher. S110V will hold an edge longer. Both difficult to sharpen, but S110V is more difficult.
How long does it take you to work through your progressions on s90v when you have worked the blade to a dull edge?
Ryan Bryant on the stones, not very long. Depending on the number of stones, 10-15 minutes at the most. Strops, maybe another 10-15 if I have a stubborn burr.
I’ve heard that the ceramic stones from Spyderco have arrived in warped condition. Have you ran into this issue? If so, does lapping it take away from the ultra fine finish? As I hear that is the only difference between the fine and ultra fine is the finish they put on the stone, other than that they are supposedly the same.
T.S. S I have not run into the issue of warped stones. Your question about lapping the stones is a very good one, and it’s not one that I have a definite answer on. Based off of a discussion I had once in Edge Snobs, I did a test resurfacing a Spyderco UF ceramic using varying grits of DMT products. I was expecting the diamond to leave deep scratches like a scratch pattern on a knife and completely ruin the stone. I was surprised to see this was not the case. I guess because of the freedom of movement in resurfacing the stone, the finish left was much better then what you see in a knife’s scratch pattern. I even looked under a micro scope at the finish left on the stone and the finish it left on a knife, when considering resurfacing the stone and finishing with C, F, EF, and EEF. Even having done that test, I can’t give you an answer that I would feel confident in, and I won’t bullshit you.
What I can say is, I don’t resurface my Spyderco Stones. If I had to, I would use a progression and finish with the finest diamond stone I had, and then probably work with some compounds on the stone to try to make it even finer.
But if you get some ceramics from Spyderco, they’ll probably be fine and you should just use them instead of worrying about altering them.
Michael Christy, it’s hindered in the past from grabbing one but I think I will now.
Thanks !
I’ve always had my eye on the Native and never pulled the trigger. How would you compare its slicing ability to, say, a Chaparral or a Stretch?
jooky5 I don’t think it’s as thin as those models, but it’s a great EDC knife.
Michael Christy TY Michael
Hey mike can you recommend some diamond spray ? I never used it before thanks Rich from Michigan .
little woody Hand American is good and inexpensive. Jende is good. Ken Schwartz products are probably the best I’ve used.
Okay mike thanks .
Do you sharpen other people's knives? I got some s90v I'm having some issues with. Thanks
James Heard no, I don’t take sharpening jobs. Schedule is too busy.
Would you suggest this version or the CM154/S90V with a Saber grind??
Tae So this version, unless you want a thicker blade.
@@michaelchristy4982 thank you! Appreciate the reply Michael!
(sigh) why does this stuff get almost 10 mil views? (making a kitchen knife out of carbon fibre). He also makes them out of wood, cardboard, chocolate, pasta, and many of his vids have millions of views. I am obviously not advertising for him to get you to see his vids...just wanted to vent. Comparatively speaking, THIS is how worthless our dedication to actual sharpness is. The only light i see in this is that it got to me via a recommended vid, and that alone can get you millions of views. The vid is here: watch?v=TCkmKgUp1ak
Great vid as usual btw
Do you still use that leather for strops
Hi Dude yes
Great knife, great video.
Got a question here that's off topic in regards to the video if that's alright.
What do you know about W2C? I recently came across it in a bit of literature from Uddeholm with a chart listing Carbide types, according to that it lists W2C as a harder carbide than vanadium carbide (I think it's using Vickers).
www5.kau.se/sites/default/files/Dokument/subpage/2010/02/21_269_287_pdf_18759.pdf
Just wondering if it's formed in steels we know of. I'll do more reading and digging for it.
acoupleofsharpthings it’s interesting. I’ve been looking into it since reading your comment. I read somewhere it’s tungsten semi carbide, but I’m not sure.
bit of a delayed reply but here goes. I've had a further look into it since I made this comment and asked a couple of people about it.
The most help in figuring out how it worked exactly was Larrin's article over here: knifesteelnerds.com/2018/03/29/is-blue-super-steel-actually-super-the-facts-about-tungsten-alloyed-steels/ - in particular the chart and the paragraph in the section about Wear Resistance. Another large help was his response to my question about what steels (if any) it could be forming in.
It goes by a couple of names (ditungsten carbide, W2C, tungsten semicarbide) but it's essentially just two parts tungsten one part carbon. Larrin's response was this:
"There aren't many direct measurements of the hardness of tungsten carbides in low-alloy steels because the steels are pretty rare. The high tungsten high speed steels form a different type of tungsten carbide which is much lower in hardness."
My takeaway from this being that it's not something you'll be seeing in high speed steels as according to ThermoCalc predictions it'll be W6C being formed. It would form in a low alloy steel with moderate tungsten content and lower carbon content (unsure how much lower) but there's very little data on the hardness of the carbide due to the reason Larrin mentioned. I'm unsure why I just rewrote what Larrin said, but that is how I now have it in my head.
I went through a lot of papers and sources on it but the only one I found to answer what questions I had, other than the names of it, were Larrin's article and response. Interesting couple of days, I didn't know about the different types of tungsten carbide and the hardnesses of the varying types prior to this. I'm no metallurgist though, could be incorrect on several points here.
As an aside, this knife model will be with me in a couple of weeks, looking forward to it.
acoupleofsharpthings nice info. Enjoy the knife. It’s a really good one.
Why dont you use micro bevels? Other than to say it's not needed, is there a detriment?
corismsyn they’re not needed. They make the edge more obtuse. And, I refine the edge (the edge, not the edge bevel. Talking about sharpness here, not aesthetics) through my whole process. If I used a micro bevel at the end, that would all be a waist.
Michael Christy yeah that's what I thought. Why would someone work so hard maintaining a certain angle through a series of stones then change the angle at the very end. Plus the edge on the microbevel is probably not as refined or accurate.
corismsyn micro bevels have their place, but I don’t think they fit with what I’m doing.
Michael : that leather looks thick, does it gives a lot ? . What type of leather?
Kevin Chen it is thick, but has very little (if any) give.
Michael Christy thanks.
i would think its horse butt leather? i think thats what my leather looks like. expensive stuff, but otherwise i dunno for sure.
Tactical Center I’m not sure what kind it is.
Hey Michael quick question. When sharpening a harder steel like s110v or s90v and you finish with the spyderco stones I know you like to worry about the burr later and get rid of it with your strops. Is there a certain thing you do to get the burr real small on the spyderco stones before you go to strops or do you just spend a long time on your coarser strop...and if the strop then what micron do you start with to get rid of the burr quick. Or what grit. I have been using the bark river black 3k compound as my strop right off the spyderco stones and with the harder steels im having a hard time getting the burr to disappear and its taking forever. Just wondering if you have a certain compound or emulsion that you use that works quick. Hope you can help me out! I'm doing my native 5 in s110v and its taking sooooo long lol
Paul Lonardo there is burr minimization that I do on the stones, but it’s very intuitive. Also, with something like S110V or S90V, I only use diamond compound and I start at 4 micron usually.
Michael Christy Hmmm...do you have a video I can look up on your channel where you do the burr minimization ? I am guessing its real light pressure and alternating strokes or even edge trailing strokes...I tend to use decent pressure as I work up the grits to make sure I get the entire apex and make sure my burr goes the entire length, but it seems when I get to my spyderco bench stones the burr shows up quicker and bigger...I think I need to use way less pressure. But as you know to get all the scratches out from my atoma 1200 and get an even polish from the spyderco stones you have to give some pressure at least. Ill get It...your videos have helped me alot already and I am so close to getting edges as sharp as yours but I think when I hit the strops I get frustrated trying to make the burr disappear entirely I end up losing that super fine edge. I'm going at low angles and keep it steady so I know I'm not stropping too steep...at least I think. Well ill keep practicing! I have 150 knives so eventually right lol
Michael Christy hey bro did you see yr me Shapton glass stone set? Smaller stones like you like and goes down to .44 micron. Hope you get some sent to you or something id like to see How the .44 is.
Id just buy a light sabre
Does stropping with diamond or plain strops tear out carbides?
Jeremy Sharpe Diamonds are much harder than Vanadium Carbide. So the diamond compounds will indeed cut the carbide and thus not result in carbide tearout. There are no carbides present in blade steels that will not be cut by CBN or Diamond.
Bare strops will not remove steel as far as I know, only align a weakened edge. I could be wrong on that.
acoupleofsharpthings no, you’ve said it pretty good there. The other thing that bare strops do is clean the edge. Some sharpeners find an advantage by finishing with a bare strop, but that’s because it cleans off compound from the edge. Bare leather will also help to remove stuff like glue from tape, which will make your edge feel very dull.
Michael Christy I use a bare strop, about a quarter inch as a cleaner strop and finisher. Thanks for the reply
Michael Christy I guess the 2nd part of his questio was missed : using a strop with say green or white compound rouge instead of diamond spray or diamond emulsion..would there be tear out using the rouges? Good question!!
Chief Chuf I don’t know if rouges would cause tear out. I don’t know if anyone has ever tested it. But I don’t see any reason that those strops would cut the carbides in the edge, so even if they didn’t cause tear out, would it make sense to use them when there’s other options?
have you buy s90v shaman yet?
詹皓翔 no. I’ve thought about it, but the scales are smooth, and that’s given me pause.