Completed some studies as part of my postgrad. I tested mutiple liquid test kits vs colorimetry. The liquid test kits were notoriously inaccurate. Often giving very wayward readings compared to the more accurate colorimtry. So you are probabaly seeing that here, the liquid test kit gives a rough figure, which can vary dramatically even when you sample the same water! I wouldnt therefore trust the liquid test kits fully. They really struggle to distinguish between nitrate levels, normally they can detect if its low or high but all the concentrations in between are not great. Have a look on your water companies website for the nitrate data. I am a Water Quality Scientist at a water company and they will use colorimtry to analyse nitrate.
Hi Tom My water company tells me: 'The data in this report is taken from water samples collected in 2023'. Minimum, Maximum and Means reported, between 8 and 108 samples depending on what is being tested for, only 8 for Nitrate. E Coli is the big one for drinking water in terms of number of samples. Data that is of only limited value for a water change on a fish tank this week in the summer of 2024. But the Nitrate readings at around 14 ppm are in line with my non-summer tap water readings with liquid reagent tests. In the summer I find sometimes I can get a much higher reading but only in the summer and normally after a dry Spring. I accept liquid tests aren't very accurate, but combining liquid tests and dip tests and crucially taking multiple tests, I have found the Nitrate in my water tap water varies significantly by season and sometimes by week. Partly explained no doubt by the sourcing of water and the deterioration in the water quality from the rivers as the water volume drops in the summer growing season. Testing tank water just after a water change and just before the next one will clearly show if the plant volume is reducing Nitrate or if the tank is biologically overloaded with fish. For most aquariums tap water is nearly always lower in Nitrate, but with lots of fast growing plants and low fish stocks the Nitrate can be very low, as it is in my garden wildlife pond, emerged plants and no fish - only insects, newts and frogs - and mainly rainwater for sourcing means I can' get a Nitrate reading.
@@williammcdowell6257 your nitrate shouldn't vary too much between seasons. Nitrate has a PCV (regulatory limit) in drinking water and therefore is strictly and crucially monitored. Most treatment works whereby the nitrate source is classed as high (45-50ppm) will have a blending with low nitrate source. If an elevated nitrate is noted from the high risk source, that source will either be stopped or blending altered so that the low nitrate source dominates. It could vary from around 20/25 to 30/35 I suppose but shouldn't vary more than 10ppm. Most definitely liquid test strips are needed and as a hobbyist it's the best we really have. However, most are very inaccurate. For example as part of my research, I often found that for high readings from the liquid test kit (100ppm to off the scale 160+ppm) when analysed using colorimetry the reading was actually only 50-60ppm. Fairly high but you can see how the liquid test kit struggles and I mean why wouldn't it, it's only a couple of quid so you get what you pay for, but it is a good indicator for sure. Don't forget nitrate might vary from location sampled. I have a large Koi pond, full of koi feeding like pigs, testing the surface Vs the water in the filter gives very different results as you can imagine. Excellent to see your passion for the subject though, not many get excited by water chemistry, keep up the excellent work and happy fish keeping!
@@tomreed3478 Thanks Tom. Never had a tap water reading above the 40-60 range, have tested fish tanks owned by others and had very high readings but I aim for Nitrate below 10 ppm in my own planted aquarium. Have a great day.
fish aren't bothered by nitrate, in natural scenarios, it can't possibly get high enough to harm fish. This is all just another thing they push to sell more products. bacteria in a bottle is a scam and it's the same companies that sell you the same products that make these claims. Using a seasoned filter = instant cycle. if bacteria in a bottle worked, it would have the same result but it doesn't. Oh and if you have enough plants, you'll never see any evidence of ammonia, ever. Thus reducing the need to test the water. I stopped testing regularly and changing water years ago and have pristine water, ammonia only exists if you feed an insane amount of food, fish don't need to eat like humans.
So glad you showed the step of shaking the nitrate indicator bottle before testing. I have done water tests many times and assumed i didn’t need to read the test kit instructions. My hubris led to me getting falsely low nitrate readings while i was trying to dial in fertilizer levels and i lost a couple of fish as a result. Live and learn.
This has always been my favourite tank in the gallery, love the planted aquariums and hardscape but its the fish that just steal the show for me. Proper bucket list fish for me!
Der Test hat gezeigt, dass dein Filter mit sehr gutem Filtermaterial bestückt ist und in Kombination mit den Bakterien im Bodengrund - und natürlich auch dem regelmäßigen Teilwasserwechsel - sogar eine denitrifizierende Wirkung hat und dies trotz des scheinbar zu hohen Fischbesatzes! 👍 Bei dem kranken Weibchen tippe ich auf ein Schwimmblasenproblem....🙄 Abgeben würde ich Fische aus dem Nachwuchs, damit die Rangordnung der Fische im Becken nicht unnötig gestört wird. 😉
Great aquarium! I notice you do a water change, use raw tap water, and throw the conditioner in the tank (rather than treat just the new water). I am always too nervous to do that!
I’ve had 2 tanks in my fish keeping history that were balanced. I changed the water monthly not because I had to but because I thought the tank would appreciate some fresh H2O.
With the combination of filtration, as well as a deeper Sandbed, and all of that Hardscape, you should have no problem with nitrates because of the biological capacity. I kept African cichlids this way for years and never had any problems. Keeping up on routine maintenance is also a must.
I always found some trace nitrate in my water living in the countryside. Seemed to be more so in the spring summer when crop growing was going on. I assumed it’s related to fertilization of the fields. With your filtration and water change regimens I would definitely say there is no worries on excess and while Anubias the plant mass is large so in my opinion that’s probably helping a load with denitrification.
A lot of tap water conditioners will 'detoxify' nitrates, whatever that means, so you could be seeing the results of that. Definitely worth using full RO in a lot of the UK, helps with algae issues a great deal.
with slow growing plants (anubis) in a well fed ciclid tank = algae. I solved mine with frequent water change but not optimal. Throws the rest of the water params out and bad for ciclid. Instead, I now circulate the ciclid tank water into a secondary holding tank (2 feet tank) in which I plant water hyacinth and other fast growing plants. Now I have ciclid tank and a show tank for plants that eat up the nitrates and phosphates
I got 9 of these in a 120 liter Juwel. Very hardy fish. I do a water change every 2 months. Definitely no need for weekly water change. It will for sure reduce the algae tho. I give them tropical discus granulaat
George, I'm assuming you are using biomaster canister filtration on this aquarium. Also, assuming with the pre filter system on these filters, you aren't disturbing the media in the baskets themselves. If, all of this is true, and you're using something like seachem matrix as your primary media inside your filter, it's a possibility that could explain the nitrate mystery or at least play a part in it I'm fascinated in some way by all styles of freshwater aquarium keeping that seems to be working, or in better terms, a work in progress. If you are indeed using something like matrix in your canister, I'm wondering if over time, food particles and detritus, have made there way into the tiny holes of the media creating a food source for various types of the microbes needing various levels of oxygen to none at all. This "clogging" could be the very thing that's allowed your system to mature and "balance" itself within the media itself in ways we are only starting to consider. I wonder this, largely because of things being talked about within the plenum community and said by the pond guy who created biohome media. Ultimately, both support the same idea in different ways. The plenum community has discovered nice results with the denitification process by adding fired red clay to the bottom layer of their system. Results are showing that doing this decreases the amount of time it takes for the denitrification process to start and seems to be giving more stability long term if I'm understanding the technical talk of it anyways. Also, the creator of biohome media explains this process working within his media in basically the same way over time with the clogging effect being vital to the process. It makes me wonder that if that's not what's going on within your filtration system. Within a mature system these particles could be providing vital minerals and nutrients to a much broader range of biomes deep within the media causing this effect on your nitrates in ways we don't fully understand yet. Some would argue that any nutrients within the clogged media would quickly be depleted...but according to soil science within the horticulture community, anything organic has CEC abilities to hold minerals and nutrients....so isn't it possible that there would be a neverending supply of whatever these microbes actually require to whatever they are doing far beyond what we understand within this alien underwater world? Even if it's just more sponge in your canister, one could argue, that it's doing the same thing if it's not being touched for extended periods of time....the particles themselves could join a form these various layers of ecosystems within ecosystems. I think it's all fascinating, and am so glad you shared what was going on within your aquarium to make me rethink and ponder about all of this again. If people could learn to listen with curiosity and respect to one another in our difference across all avenues without fear of "catching" someone else's opinion, theologies, beliefs, and way of life like it's a death virus, the world could be such a beautiful place. Thank you so much for sharing your little drop of that dream with us all George. It's been a pleasure watching you learn and grow in your craft through the years. I enjoy your peaceful insightful content very much. ☺️❤️☺️
Hi George Pretty confusing on the Nitrate issue. I often have high Nitrate in my tap water in the summer, water changes have in the past led to green algae issues, however, my guess is that the high rainfall this year has so far ensured my tap has not been high in Nitrate. I find it hard to believe that slow growing plants have reduced Nitrate levels, harvesting twice a week high amounts of fast floating plants will. A test of tap water before a water change would have been more useful and really probably best to test at least twice when results are significantly unexpected. With such high stocking of largish fish I would be anticipating using a Nitrate absorbing resin. I have consistently found higher Nitrate levels at times in the summer, though flash rainfall in the summer will flush agricultural Nitrate into water courses, but dilution is what I would expect this past 9 months. Nitrates in the summer are often much higher than the water company published reports according to my tests with different kits in Kent, London and Berkshire. With a Nitrate absorption resin in a filter in a bin full of tap water I have taken tap at around 40 ppm to less than 10 over a few days.
I'm surprised by the Nitrate value of your tap water. Where I live, that is so little (8.8 mg/l) that I cannot measure that with a drop test. In you tank I do believe that the plant mass and the strong (biological?) filtration lowers the Nitrate level.
Actually Nitrogen is the final stage of the nitrogen cycle You have anaerobic bacteria in the sandbed breaking down nitrates. In a bare bottom tank you would have higher nitrate levels. Beautifull tank. Would lower the stocking and keep the tank going.
Regarding your paradoxical NO3 findings, I would guess the simplest explanation might well be the most likely...namely, your anubias is/are world class NO3 removers.
Hey George, I live down the road from you in bar hill and my tank was reading 40ppm nitrate constantly so I checked my tap water and it was exactly the same colour as the tank water 😂🤦♂️ so water changes were doing nothing for nitrate levels. 🤷♂️ makes you wonder about what we put into our bodies drinking out the tap. Cheers
Completed some studies as part of my postgrad. I tested mutiple liquid test kits vs colorimetry. The liquid test kits were notoriously inaccurate. Often giving very wayward readings compared to the more accurate colorimtry. So you are probabaly seeing that here, the liquid test kit gives a rough figure, which can vary dramatically even when you sample the same water! I wouldnt therefore trust the liquid test kits fully. They really struggle to distinguish between nitrate levels, normally they can detect if its low or high but all the concentrations in between are not great. Have a look on your water companies website for the nitrate data. I am a Water Quality Scientist at a water company and they will use colorimtry to analyse nitrate.
Hi Tom
My water company tells me: 'The data in this report is taken from water samples collected in 2023'. Minimum, Maximum and Means reported, between 8 and 108 samples depending on what is being tested for, only 8 for Nitrate. E Coli is the big one for drinking water in terms of number of samples. Data that is of only limited value for a water change on a fish tank this week in the summer of 2024. But the Nitrate readings at around 14 ppm are in line with my non-summer tap water readings with liquid reagent tests. In the summer I find sometimes I can get a much higher reading but only in the summer and normally after a dry Spring.
I accept liquid tests aren't very accurate, but combining liquid tests and dip tests and crucially taking multiple tests, I have found the Nitrate in my water tap water varies significantly by season and sometimes by week. Partly explained no doubt by the sourcing of water and the deterioration in the water quality from the rivers as the water volume drops in the summer growing season.
Testing tank water just after a water change and just before the next one will clearly show if the plant volume is reducing Nitrate or if the tank is biologically overloaded with fish. For most aquariums tap water is nearly always lower in Nitrate, but with lots of fast growing plants and low fish stocks the Nitrate can be very low, as it is in my garden wildlife pond, emerged plants and no fish - only insects, newts and frogs - and mainly rainwater for sourcing means I can' get a Nitrate reading.
@@williammcdowell6257 your nitrate shouldn't vary too much between seasons. Nitrate has a PCV (regulatory limit) in drinking water and therefore is strictly and crucially monitored. Most treatment works whereby the nitrate source is classed as high (45-50ppm) will have a blending with low nitrate source. If an elevated nitrate is noted from the high risk source, that source will either be stopped or blending altered so that the low nitrate source dominates. It could vary from around 20/25 to 30/35 I suppose but shouldn't vary more than 10ppm. Most definitely liquid test strips are needed and as a hobbyist it's the best we really have. However, most are very inaccurate. For example as part of my research, I often found that for high readings from the liquid test kit (100ppm to off the scale 160+ppm) when analysed using colorimetry the reading was actually only 50-60ppm. Fairly high but you can see how the liquid test kit struggles and I mean why wouldn't it, it's only a couple of quid so you get what you pay for, but it is a good indicator for sure. Don't forget nitrate might vary from location sampled. I have a large Koi pond, full of koi feeding like pigs, testing the surface Vs the water in the filter gives very different results as you can imagine. Excellent to see your passion for the subject though, not many get excited by water chemistry, keep up the excellent work and happy fish keeping!
@@tomreed3478 Thanks Tom. Never had a tap water reading above the 40-60 range, have tested fish tanks owned by others and had very high readings but I aim for Nitrate below 10 ppm in my own planted aquarium. Have a great day.
fish aren't bothered by nitrate, in natural scenarios, it can't possibly get high enough to harm fish. This is all just another thing they push to sell more products. bacteria in a bottle is a scam and it's the same companies that sell you the same products that make these claims. Using a seasoned filter = instant cycle. if bacteria in a bottle worked, it would have the same result but it doesn't. Oh and if you have enough plants, you'll never see any evidence of ammonia, ever. Thus reducing the need to test the water. I stopped testing regularly and changing water years ago and have pristine water, ammonia only exists if you feed an insane amount of food, fish don't need to eat like humans.
So glad you showed the step of shaking the nitrate indicator bottle before testing.
I have done water tests many times and assumed i didn’t need to read the test kit instructions.
My hubris led to me getting falsely low nitrate readings while i was trying to dial in fertilizer levels and i lost a couple of fish as a result. Live and learn.
Hubris is a great word. Thanks for sharing your humility here.
This has always been my favourite tank in the gallery, love the planted aquariums and hardscape but its the fish that just steal the show for me. Proper bucket list fish for me!
Der Test hat gezeigt, dass dein Filter mit sehr gutem Filtermaterial bestückt ist und in Kombination mit den Bakterien im Bodengrund - und natürlich auch dem regelmäßigen Teilwasserwechsel - sogar eine denitrifizierende Wirkung hat und dies trotz des scheinbar zu hohen Fischbesatzes! 👍
Bei dem kranken Weibchen tippe ich auf ein Schwimmblasenproblem....🙄 Abgeben würde ich Fische aus dem Nachwuchs, damit die Rangordnung der Fische im Becken nicht unnötig gestört wird. 😉
Great aquarium! I notice you do a water change, use raw tap water, and throw the conditioner in the tank (rather than treat just the new water). I am always too nervous to do that!
I’ve had 2 tanks in my fish keeping history that were balanced. I changed the water monthly not because I had to but because I thought the tank would appreciate some fresh H2O.
I would be interested in testing the nitrite in the tank and the tap water rather than just nitrate.
With the combination of filtration, as well as a deeper Sandbed, and all of that Hardscape, you should have no problem with nitrates because of the biological capacity. I kept African cichlids this way for years and never had any problems. Keeping up on routine maintenance is also a must.
There could be anaerobic bacteria in the wood
It also looks like there might be pockets of sand > 3in which would have pockets of anaerobic bacteria.
By far my favorite on your collection.. love how you are successful on having an aquascape in a cichlid tank...
I always found some trace nitrate in my water living in the countryside. Seemed to be more so in the spring summer when crop growing was going on. I assumed it’s related to fertilization of the fields.
With your filtration and water change regimens I would definitely say there is no worries on excess and while Anubias the plant mass is large so in my opinion that’s probably helping a load with denitrification.
Do you not have the synodontis cat’s any longer George?
A lot of tap water conditioners will 'detoxify' nitrates, whatever that means, so you could be seeing the results of that. Definitely worth using full RO in a lot of the UK, helps with algae issues a great deal.
23:16 cook book coming soon 😂
with slow growing plants (anubis) in a well fed ciclid tank = algae. I solved mine with frequent water change but not optimal. Throws the rest of the water params out and bad for ciclid. Instead, I now circulate the ciclid tank water into a secondary holding tank (2 feet tank) in which I plant water hyacinth and other fast growing plants. Now I have ciclid tank and a show tank for plants that eat up the nitrates and phosphates
Sounds like a perfect set up with the second planted tank ridding the main one with Cichlids of ammonium.
Hi George! :) I remember you had baby fish born in that tank a couple years ago. Did they live?
The nitrate level may depend on your water source and the time of the year. I have the Walstad book, but it's too big for me to read. Lol
I got 9 of these in a 120 liter Juwel. Very hardy fish. I do a water change every 2 months. Definitely no need for weekly water change. It will for sure reduce the algae tho. I give them tropical discus granulaat
Very interesting and as usual relaxing video
I always think the hard scrapes take up way too much swimming space
whole foods diet! yay for you! basically if food is in a can or box it's processed, or what I like to think poisoned.
My tank has been up fourteen plus years. I never checked the Ph. One less chemical you to add.😊
In my first year I thought to try and chase ph. Once I gave up on that, life was better.
George, I'm assuming you are using biomaster canister filtration on this aquarium. Also, assuming with the pre filter system on these filters, you aren't disturbing the media in the baskets themselves. If, all of this is true, and you're using something like seachem matrix as your primary media inside your filter, it's a possibility that could explain the nitrate mystery or at least play a part in it
I'm fascinated in some way by all styles of freshwater aquarium keeping that seems to be working, or in better terms, a work in progress.
If you are indeed using something like matrix in your canister, I'm wondering if over time, food particles and detritus, have made there way into the tiny holes of the media creating a food source for various types of the microbes needing various levels of oxygen to none at all. This "clogging" could be the very thing that's allowed your system to mature and "balance" itself within the media itself in ways we are only starting to consider.
I wonder this, largely because of things being talked about within the plenum community and said by the pond guy who created biohome media. Ultimately, both support the same idea in different ways.
The plenum community has discovered nice results with the denitification process by adding fired red clay to the bottom layer of their system. Results are showing that doing this decreases the amount of time it takes for the denitrification process to start and seems to be giving more stability long term if I'm understanding the technical talk of it anyways. Also, the creator of biohome media explains this process working within his media in basically the same way over time with the clogging effect being vital to the process.
It makes me wonder that if that's not what's going on within your filtration system. Within a mature system these particles could be providing vital minerals and nutrients to a much broader range of biomes deep within the media causing this effect on your nitrates in ways we don't fully understand yet.
Some would argue that any nutrients within the clogged media would quickly be depleted...but according to soil science within the horticulture community, anything organic has CEC abilities to hold minerals and nutrients....so isn't it possible that there would be a neverending supply of whatever these microbes actually require to whatever they are doing far beyond what we understand within this alien underwater world?
Even if it's just more sponge in your canister, one could argue, that it's doing the same thing if it's not being touched for extended periods of time....the particles themselves could join a form these various layers of ecosystems within ecosystems.
I think it's all fascinating, and am so glad you shared what was going on within your aquarium to make me rethink and ponder about all of this again.
If people could learn to listen with curiosity and respect to one another in our difference across all avenues without fear of "catching" someone else's opinion, theologies, beliefs, and way of life like it's a death virus, the world could be such a beautiful place.
Thank you so much for sharing your little drop of that dream with us all George. It's been a pleasure watching you learn and grow in your craft through the years. I enjoy your peaceful insightful content very much. ☺️❤️☺️
Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful comment. 🙏
Hi George
Pretty confusing on the Nitrate issue. I often have high Nitrate in my tap water in the summer, water changes have in the past led to green algae issues, however, my guess is that the high rainfall this year has so far ensured my tap has not been high in Nitrate. I find it hard to believe that slow growing plants have reduced Nitrate levels, harvesting twice a week high amounts of fast floating plants will. A test of tap water before a water change would have been more useful and really probably best to test at least twice when results are significantly unexpected. With such high stocking of largish fish I would be anticipating using a Nitrate absorbing resin. I have consistently found higher Nitrate levels at times in the summer, though flash rainfall in the summer will flush agricultural Nitrate into water courses, but dilution is what I would expect this past 9 months. Nitrates in the summer are often much higher than the water company published reports according to my tests with different kits in Kent, London and Berkshire. With a Nitrate absorption resin in a filter in a bin full of tap water I have taken tap at around 40 ppm to less than 10 over a few days.
Thanks William. The aquarium NO3 was tested before the water change.
I'm surprised by the Nitrate value of your tap water. Where I live, that is so little (8.8 mg/l) that I cannot measure that with a drop test.
In you tank I do believe that the plant mass and the strong (biological?) filtration lowers the Nitrate level.
Cheers!
Actually Nitrogen is the final stage of the nitrogen cycle
You have anaerobic bacteria in the sandbed breaking down nitrates.
In a bare bottom tank you would have higher nitrate levels.
Beautifull tank.
Would lower the stocking and keep the tank going.
When you donate fish to a new tank setup how do you make sure the fish will be ok with a quick cycle on the new setup?
The guy is maturing his filter well in advance 😃
@@GeorgeFarmerStudios any tips for someone who doesn’t have access to an established tank ?
That's indeed a overstocked.
Nitrates in tap water. That shouldn't be a thing, should it?
Someone doesen't skip leg day. 😁
Regarding your paradoxical NO3 findings, I would guess the simplest explanation might well be the most likely...namely, your anubias is/are world class NO3 removers.
Грунт для цихлид слишком крупный, нужен 0.4-1 мм. Цихлиды любят брать песок в рот , а ваш крупный песок они не осилят
Hey George, I live down the road from you in bar hill and my tank was reading 40ppm nitrate constantly so I checked my tap water and it was exactly the same colour as the tank water 😂🤦♂️ so water changes were doing nothing for nitrate levels. 🤷♂️ makes you wonder about what we put into our bodies drinking out the tap. Cheers