AT-105 Saxon APC: Britain's Cold War Battle Taxi
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- The GKN Sankey AT-105 Saxon APC was a 1980s Cold War era armored vehicle built on the Bedford TM platform to ferry troops on long hauls, perform riot duties, amongst many other light armor tasks.
Sources:
www.thinkdefen...
military.wikia...
www.military-to...
www.military-to...
www.defence24....
• Avro Vulcan Beautiful ...
• British Army Infantry ...
• SAXON Bovington Tankfe...
• Ex Lionheart as seen b...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
commons.wikime...
commons.wikime...
commons.wikime...
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
#Military #Vehicles
4:05 that graph is superb.
As a QDG who worked on challenger 1 we got attached to 1RGJ as they were short of men to deploy to Bosnia , I was in charge of about 8 blokes who were sent to Bulford to familiarise ourselves with the Saxon , a supposed 1 week course turned into about one half a days lesson , whilst the instructor scrambled desperately for something to teach us , basically ended up in the pub all week
Briefly, the vehicle was designed to haul a Brigade up the MSR from the Channel coast when 432 was our benchmark. It was (for the time) quick, modern and offered 432 level of protection. It was driven as close to our digging areas as possible, we debussed and starter to dig. We could move between positions protected against artillery splinters. It never promised WARRIOR mobility or protection, but for the Brigade, it was cheap, relatively reliable and no more difficult to work on than it's parent.
The General was pushing a different agenda, the Dogs of War MRAP. He was speaking simply, to simpletons, trying to explain that he needed something different. That "No Minister. Just because the MRAP has wheels too, doesn't mean the answer is SAXON because it it wheeled and Cheap!" I rate SAXON for the job it was designed to do, in its historical context. Today I am FOXHOUND for both jobs, though FOXHOUND would need a large trailer on the march up (5 DOS); And a very strong force of MPs to get them away from commanders (who would be keen to retake FOXHOUND rather than just digging in.
As a former back seat user and driver of one these I can say on a very positive note that it was better than tabbing for miles in full kit including bergan (and the long bench seat was ideal for a kip😁)
What did it feel like to drive?
@@WhoThisMonkey Was Ok, auto gearbox, cramped position with limited view but could have been worse
This grabbed my attention!
I drove these with “wings” on & ambulance variant a LOT when in Northern Ireland.
Also took part in a road move of Saxons GWR (General War Role) from Belfast, across to Liverpool & then a tedious drive all the way to Aldershot through the night, talk about knackered!!
As my former Bn was at times in both 1 and 19 Mech Bdes I had the unfortunate pleasure of spending about 8 years in total operating with this vehicle, which was by the time, well and truly worn out and obsolete (mid 90s - early 00s)
We had saxon in Iraq in 2003/4. They were supposed to be used for public order whilst we were deployed. They were useless at best, and were well inferior by that point. I think we just ended up parking them up in camp.
First time that came across these was in the late 80s. All we did all day was pull them out of the mud and really not that bader terrain.
So if the saxon was on a road it didn't go anywhere!!
@@kitjunky133 nine ton on four wheels will make it a bit sinky :o)
As a Brick Immortar subscriber and a veteran I look forward to more videos on this channel. Witnessing how thoroughly researched the Brick videos are, I can expect the same dedication in this venture. Forward!
psst...how about the USMC Amtrac? AAVP (My fave)? Or the ACV?
Its more than appropriate option for the motorised infantry which would've otherwise been driven in open topped trucks and other soft-skined/uparmoured vehicles like the 4x4 Mercedes or Land Rover.
Although even with the inclusion of Saxon, significant number of infantry units would still have trucks as the only option as it is impossible to provide armoured vehicles for the whole army.
On the other hand it isn't suitable for the tasks of mechanized infantry units as these are specifically trained to work hand in hand with the tank units and importantly these units are much fewer in number compared to infantry/motorized infantry units in any army.
Thanks for informing me that you have this other channel in your latest Duck disaster video!
Great work Hounds of Steel. Interesting vehicle.
I'm not understanding the hate for this vehicle. Seems to be a capable, well armored Calvary option. I know that having no air conditioning sucks, especially in the desert, but I'd rather have that armored "tub" than to be riding in a lightly armored Land Rover. Great video!☺
I was concerned that it could only stop up to a 7.62 armor piercing round, but I guess the idea is to be moving fast enough to not get hit by an RPG
@@macstmanj3 Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Quick mobility plus those crazy angles to deflect RPG rounds
The hate comes from those that had to drive and maintain it.
60mph? Off a cliff with a following wind maybe. In theory it may be able to do 60 but there’s not a road long enough to give it time to get to that speed.
I had mine, 95 KC 41, showing over 65 on the speedo along the A12 in the early 90's
Love the brief graphical explanation of the capabilities around the 4 minute mark. Hope you do the same for future videos.
Used in northern Ireland for the last of the troubles,,,,,, the humber,, pig,, being the vehicle,, most used in the province when I was growing up,,a saxons remember seeing one pushing a burning jcb out of the way in East Belfast ☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️
Great! More please. This is an area of particular interest to me so thumbs up!
That front differential is the prime target for a 50 calibre machine gun. It would stop it dead losing drive.
The Saxon proved ideal in Hong Kong’s urban environment by providing a mean of getting officers up close to a target location and offering a degree of protection on approach.
Don't have the time to watch right now, but I will be back later for sure! I love your style of commentary and how thoroughly you explain everything, which I'm certain will translate well for this subject.
Hope everything goes well and this channel takes off!
25 years in the REME, and as an Artificer, these were the very worst P.O.S. ever devised. Neither fish not fowl, they were an MoD Procurement Department disaster... amongst many!
Hated by the users and units, they were a very poor replacement for the Humber Pig, deployed on the streets of N.I.
Thank feck Dannert had the courage to get rid.
It's really neat it's got a v shaped hull
Interesting stuff. Can’t wait to see what’s next.
It would make an excellent food truck in certain cities.
Sub 58 reporting.
I can understand the desire to replace the Saxon, as it was made to operate in a *very* specific environment.
A 10-man passenger capacity and resistance to GPMG fire and not a lick more put it in a bit of an awkward place between soft-skinned transports and anything that could foreseeably operate in an asymmetric theater; having less average capacity than the former, but the maneuverability and bulk of the latter.
In Western Germany, that level of protection would probably have been put more to use against hypothetical Soviet artillery fragments, as opposed to small arms fire; which, if it had run flats, it would probably be really useful for. But that level of protection just wouldn't cut it in Afghanistan; not against HMG fire, rockets, and certainly not IEDs hitting harder than any standard AT mine does. Neither would no AC; that's a health hazard down there. Does sound like a real nice police tactical van though.
MRAPs and other vics prepared for asymmetric warfare tend to be quite large, as engineering necessitates to resist explosive forces, so properly replacing the Saxon I'm sure wouldn't have been easy, no matter the outcome. You either end up with a well-protected unit about the same size that carries basically nothing, or something the size of a bus to carry the same number of personnel. The third option - to skimp on protection - is more or less what they already had.
That conundrum and the drama surrounding its replacement somewhat reminds me a little of the TAPV here in Canada, maybe another good video topic:
We've been running Mercedes G-Class up-amoured in place of Land Rovers and they... Exist... Though you'd be hard-pressed to find a story with one where someone inside wasn't injured; do with that as you will. The next size up in terms of armoured vehicles has for a long time been the 20-ton 8-wheeled LAVs. Great, if you're mechanized infantry, but not so much if you're 3-4 people who just need to drive somewhere on your own (pers. transfer, recce, comms detachment, OP supply run, light convoy escort / route clearance, etc.), since you probably won't get the green light to use an LAV for taskings like that.
Enter the TAPV: a vehicle which, despite *also* weighing 20 tons like the LAV, has half as many wheels (thus, twice the ground pressure), less weaponry (or none at all, as procurement decided to acquire a sizable percentage of the first 500 *without* remote weapons systems), half the internal seating at 6 including crew, and less armour.
I can't for the life of me imagine why it weighs 20 tons. It should be 10 based on what it's capable of.
Despite all that, it IS an improvement on the G-Wagon in just about every way, but it remains to be seen if we'll be using them more prolifically, as there are a lot of outside-the-wire situations where it *could* be a direct replacement for the G-Wagon, or if they're going to be treated more like a dedicated recce vehicle - which I think would be a bit of a waste, despite any teething problems the system might have.
All-in-all it leaves me with a very mixed set of feelings about the thing. At least we actually GOT them - which is more than can be said for nearly any materiel procurement rumours I'd ever heard back when I was in. And they weren't second hand, moldy, and sinking in the harbour either, so that's a plus.
Your over analysing and applying metrics to it that it's use was never for. It was a troop transport for moving troops while offering a light level of protection, in Europe the infantry would be dug in on the hill facing the Soviets advance, the Saxon would be sat on the other side of the hill ready to redeploy/resupply, may be some fire support with the mounted GPMG, moving Troops through or out off nuclear fallout and so on. Battle Taxi is all the Saxon was, 432s later replaced with Warriors were the AFV
@@robert6106 Yes, and the Russian propensity for artillery - rocket, heavy, and otherwise - means those supply lines would have been under near constant barrage along any attacked frontage. Small arms protection would have been useful for that is *all* I said, and it would have done... Certainly more than canvas and sheet metal on most wheeled transports, since 'light protection' isn't only for small arms fire and never has been.
I'd hardly call it over-analyzing by putting it in the exact combined-arms context for which it was designed.
I subscribed half way through this video, I then discovered that this is the ONLY video... I hope for more as this was good :D
.
PS: Notifications turned on
Very informative; I liked the technical info.Interesting presentation and format.Also,nice to see a topic on a slightly-more obscure military vehicle.Thank's.
Great vehicle, for its time. Think it had a bad rap for a while, but i did like them. Great on exercise.
Interesting video, thanks! Reminds me of some of the vehicles my husband drove for the National Guard and that makes me wonder how the troops themselves felt about the Saxon. Was it popular with them? Did they hate it? They clearly didn’t like the “armored” Land Rovers.
Hooray, I love your work and I love military vehicles! Truly this made my night.
If you're ever in the Seattle area check out the Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum in Everett--a world-class collection that no one seems to know about :)
Wouldn't mind a video on that SNATCH Land Rover you mentioned, or just military service Land Rovers in general. Absolutely adore the old 110s and Defenders
Great job , waiting for more.👍
Great video to start off this new channel. When's the next video it's been over 3 months now.
Big up the chromehounds soundtrack at the start :)
Love this kind of stuff
I always felt that once it reached BAOR, Saxon would have primarily functioned as a bug out vehicle. It's job would have been to evacuate surviving infantrymen from untenable positions to the next defensive line. A top speed of 60mph and bullet proof and shell splinter proof armour would have been very, very useful.
Love these type of Videos! Looking foward to more from ya! ^^
Great presentation. Good info. I agree with with Ms Slates below - what did or do the troops think about them. This could be a very interesting series!
They were rubbish and should never have been issued for anything other than internal security.
Slowest thing with wheels ever designed by man.
Terrible,top heavy and shite to drive. Cross country mobility of a London bus and the reliability of a Renault.
In my Bn, We used to say “A 12 tonne Wagon with an 8 tonne Braking system…..GREAT 👎🏼👎🏼!” - Unfortunately, They WERE absolutely crap and I agree with all the other comments from ex users of this vehicle.
Please make more videos just like this ! 👍
I had the dubious distinction of riding in one in Kabul in 2006. Let's just say that it had seen better days!
Subscriber 44 reporting for duty! love this kind of stuff man, looking forward to more!
Never liked them always thought someone had a backhander in the MoD
I might add the L37 turret variant as well. Like a small armoured (prolly better then the rest of it) turret with a turret specific gpmg in it. oily. Trained as an instructor in it back in 99..funnily just before Kosovo. amazing timing.
Also remember seeing one roll backwards end over end in salisbury plains...and also the death of one officer after a roll over.
I remember those days
Great video! Could you do a piece on what’s got to be the most reliable bit of kit the UK has, the FV432?
@Stanly Stud it wasn’t the Saxon beats it hands down for that .
@Stanly Stud I spent a couple of years driving them. (BFPO 23) (1979/82) they were slow, had no power, and a pain in the arse to maintain, had a little habit of breaking down but other than that they could be fun to drive.... sometimes.
I should have made the irony more apparent sorry XD
These things are junk in belfast riots they were set on firevand soldiers ran for there lives ifv are the best way in all sits .
@@thecurlew7403 I think here you might be, as I did for a moment or 2, be remembering the dear old Humber pig FV1600 series.
First saw these in '84 on op Lionheart.
Interesting and for the top speed it's 60 MPH 100kmh without the tires being shot if shot you lose 20 mph you are now 40 mph about 60 kmh max speed. This was said by Jeremy Clarkson back in series 17
They had three of these shipped to Shiabah logistics base in Iraq in 2005, they were to be used as ambulances responding to local incidents outside the camp perimeter. However senior officers decided that they were to un-armoured for that task............ we ended up using standard GS landrovers with bits of cut up hesco zip tied on to them and and un armoured landrover ambulance instead to respond to incidents ............. British Army logic is a joke
Holy shit that is some serious upper autism right there.
Sha-ibiza
They did leave Shaiba, we had one accompany us on a couple of ops. I drove one in the UK for a while, can't imagine driving it in Iraq, horrible.
Saxon was and still is good for what it was intended to do. Quick and cheap long distance travel for B infantry units in low threat rear areas. Certainly warmer than the back of a canvas lorry. Given it's impressive internal space, I imagine it has uses in logistical support roles too.
no, that spare got filled quick. the 8 94mms took alot of spare to the left of the turret, also rations and water keep inside....but plus note it had a BV (Boiling vessel) hook to its mains so hot food and tea all round. Also a REME could get you an adaptor to power a radio as well...90's living
@@jonathanohagan1349 My time with it was all good.
They seem to have left out the large amount used in Northern Ireland .
It was my team that was responsible for the deployment of the Saxon Patrol across Northern Ireland back in 1993, along with the Land Rover “Snatch’”, and the removal of the Humber “Pigs” and old Series 3 “ Macrolon” Landies. I also worked with the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders back in the late 80’s who were equipped with the Saxon GS.
@@stevei0220 thanks info , I was lucky to be there during the peace process so not as hairy as it was for you no doubt .
brings back memories of playing the old daisarenyaku 7 on xbox with friends, we used to nickname it "the cow" because of the shape and paintjob in game, these things are also super fun. in wargame RD and I'd love to see an arma 3 mod for them in the future
also: general dannet: "No! ArMor TRuCK No BeLONg On FrOnt LIne!!!" somewhere in the middle east: *sheet metal bolt on Toyota noises*
*Royal Malaysian Police are still using the AT-105 for its General Operation Force, Armoured Car Squadron. The Malaysian AT-105 were used during 1968-1989 Communist Insurgency for patrol, escort, armoured transport and roadblock duties and usually paired with V-150 Commando. The Malaysian Sankey AT105 were only fitted with turret with 2 FN Mag GPMG and smoke discharger.*
I drove one of these my btn 1KORB IN 83 when we trialed them then we drove them to Germany for lionheart utter nightmare
Interesting Video and interesting Vehicle. Nices visuales too.
Looking at the west german Fuchs, I am surprised how "simpel" and improvised this looks by comparison.
Maybe we do overengineer stuff :)
Edit: 1 Video and already 248 Subscribers. I am jelaous/envious (whatever fits best ;) ) That took me over 60 Videos and some major luck as well as over a year :)
Well done
Saxon still operate in Ukrainian Army like medical evacuation vehicle. Has good feedback. Has some small disadvantages: Should drive by experienced drivers, to prevent overturn etc. Repaired in 2020 by one local company.
So, the early-'80s British version of THALES Bushmaster, then?
you transposed the engine size and the number of cylinders
Great vehicle!
Cool vid! U planning on doing more?
Wow very interesting 🧐.
So many lives could have been saved by the Saxons V shaped hull In Afghanistan. This statement is written in blood.
The Saxon would have saved quite a few lives just in its original form let alone what it could have become to a recent deployment. It came way after my time . Well that’s Civil servants and Politicians that have the final say on British Kit.
مقطع جميل شكراً لك.
Taxi the TA from Ports to central Germany.. lets be honest it was built for NI. light arms and IEDs.
if they used these at the begining off that afgancampaign maybe there would have been less casualties .!.Sending paras in six wheel drive unarmoured pinzgauers .
They did use them in Iraq and Afghanistan. However the Snatch was more numerous and versatile.
Hi sir Please make a video about Philippines GKN SANKEY Simba Armored Vehicle
Prototype Saxons started off on Bedford MK running gear and was meant to have a b81 engine option there was a left hand drive prototype that had a 7.62 mm in a turret the vehicle was on the GKN stand in 1976 at a Arms fair and had a strange hybrid between TM and MK axles
Sea coal truck in the 80s in the north east used these trucks
Malaysian police armoured brigade still use it, damn this thing looks old when face to face.
that's no taxi... thats a bus... where we droppin?
ChromeHounds music?
Definately! Plus the "Hounds" in the username. Always fun to find other old Rafzekael mercs.
Snatch land rover and Canadian ILTIS right up there for the death coffin awards in there time.
Battlefield taxi / ice cream van... 🤣😂👏
PHILIPPINES 🇵🇭 BRITISH GKN SANKEY SIMBA
You forgot to add Serbia on the map
It was shit but kept you dry and saved walking and definitely better than the Humber pig FYI as a driver loved getting in the drivers seat lol
24 airmobile brigade 1987 to be fair as stated better than a 4 tonner with canvas bullet proofing😁 genrally reliable fast with some cross country performance as zulu muster commander they worked better than tabbing and oh waterproof as an infantry soldier for 28 years ok and not armchair warrior just saying 🤣
REME is pronounced ‘Ree-Mee’.
Saxon driver vision very poor
Had these in Bosnia, they are crap always braking down
I can say , it was rubbish in my day , it's rubbish now
MRAPS grandpa
Britain makes some the ugliest army vehicles
as i remember it , it was a pile of junk that had a nasty habit of turning over.
A terrible vehicle to drive.
A truly useless vehicle.
Nope, its was great for it's intended role. Moving infantry long distances with light protection just short of deployment and nothing more than that.
@@robert6106 that's true, but unfortunately the powers that be will always try to make a crappy silk purse out of a perfectly serviceable sow's ear. As a battle taxi on roads and moderate tracks it was OK, but for anything other than that, it was rubbish. I was saddled with several of them as CP vehicles......terrible.
@@gunner678 if they were used for a purpose other than that they were designed for then don't blame the designer and it clearly doesn't make them useless. It makes them wrongly used.
That is an impressively ugly vehicle.