I had a 2007 Yukon with a flexfuel I ran E85 for 2 years without any issues. I now have a 2016 F150, and i bought it because it was flexfuel. It's been running great without any issues or the delay he claimed. I live in California. Regular gas is 4.99 a gallon and E85 is 2.98 a gallon so thats a difference of $115 dollars to refuel with regular gas and $60 with E85. I installed a scanner that can read the E85 rating and i have never gone below 77%. it gets me about 2-3 mpg less on E85 but even with the price difference its still cheaper to go with E85
Same page brother We got a Tahoe with a flex fuel And yes it gets a lot 2-3 mpg less, specially city driving, but gas being in my area about $5.00 plus per gallon, while $2.89 for e85, it just makes a lot more sense and yes we also fill up with $60 of e85 vs close to $150 with regular premium fuel
PCMTEC software for us Ford users in Australia. Allows the use of flex fuel and to blend maps (fuel, ignition, boost) together... Water/meth or lpg even if you wanted to I suppose!
Just an FYI, you did not explain the difference in stoichiometric values correctly. You stated that because it has a lower BTU content, you need more fuel to make power. Stoich value has nothing to do with the energy in the content in the fuel. If you combust both fuels at their stoich values, the energy released in the E85 will be lower and with a different energy release curve (e85 has a slower burn and higher resistance to ignition). The correct explanation is because you have less energy during combustion after you reach the same lambda value, you need to add more air (and thus even more fuel) plus more timing to get more power. This allows you to access power that was previously restricted due to knock limitations based on engine design and operating conditions. Still a solid video on e85, just that one bit that was miss-associated
You're correct he did explain stoichiometric value incorrectly but so did you in your 2nd paragraph. Stoichiometric is merely the value at which fuel burn most efficiently, meaning the best burn not the most power. LPG has a stoic value of 15.5 and a lower calorific value but can, and in liquid phase injection does, produce more power due to the removal of latent heat from the intake air stream as it is entering the cylinder (or in the case of direct injection it lowers the latent heat within the cylinder itself). Thus stoichiometry has very little to do with "power" output but alot to do with fuel efficiency (as in MPG).
@@michaelau5159 I think you misread my comment. I said for a given lambda, you make less power with all else being constant of course (i.e. same boost, temps, timing, etc). Lambda is not the same as AFR and has nothing to do with stoich values themselves. It's actually the ratio current AFR to stoich AFR so a stoich burn for any fuel is 1.00, but usually run about a .80 for turbo engines. Multiple that by your fuel's stoich value and you get your AFR. Getting an e85 car to run the same lambda as gasoline will cause you to lose power. It moves the knock threshold allowing you to advance the timing more and run more boost without knock. It gives you a more stable and controllable burn. You are correct that power and AFR are not directly linked.
Stating that E85 needs a tune every single time you fill up is a bit of a misnomer. It’s a VERY forgiving fuel. As an example, in a carbureted application, you only need to change one jet size for every 5% change in the mixture. So if you have your carb square jetted with 94’s for e85, and then run a 80% fuel mix the next time you refuel, you drop one jet size to 93’s.
I installed a flexfuel kit on my 2002 Mustang GT with stock injectors and fuel pump. And it's working fine with E85. I didn't do this for environmental concerns. I'm still testing it to see if it was a good investment.
Yea, this video was basicly a commercial for Proflex. What they did was bassicly talk shit about every flexfuel so that proflex seems like a better choice
A consistent ethanol content is more likely to mean bad gas station. The reason the Ethanol content in E85 varies is because of the seasons. When its hotter you can run more Ethanol than when its colder. One of the reasons being that ethanol has a much bigger cooling effect than normal gas. When its really cold outside starting your engine with a high ethanol content might become quite hard.
Have a nissan titan with flex from the factory. I have avoided it for fear of "lower grade" gas before. Honestly, just didnt know anything about it. Im going to try it out now on the titan!
I hope you can answer this question. I have an LS3 75 pound injectors, Pro Charge, big blower cam. Should I install a Continental Fuel Sensor and run E-85 and will this add HP to my set up? What are the risks and downsides to the above? Happy 4th of July. Where are you guys located in Florida?
The Ford Mustang with 12:1 compression stock loves e85 and makes huge power on a flex tune. As long as your tuner unlocks that’s ability. You can watch the computer learn it after fueling up and it is very close and thousands and thousands of people run flex tunes and they work great? Not sure what you mean by bad and slow learning and rough running? Maybe older cars but 18+ mustangs work great and learn fast and add timing instantly after it learns
Question. None ethonal fuel is pretty available in GA is that a good fuel to get a tune for on a daily driven/ track car for road courses and auto cross?
Typically, no. The lack of ethanol most likely is going to lower the Octane rating. This makes running the fuel in a performance application less than ideal.
So a 2007 Chevy flex fuel Tahoe should have no problem with filling up on regular 87 octane one day and E85 another day ? The 2007 Flex Fuel Tahoe will run on both fuels even a 50/50 mix ?
E85 can cause problems. with Yukon. Drop your oil pan and take a look. My understanding is there will be sludge based on another video I saw: "When E85 Sucks!". Appears not to work well for those who let the vehicle sit for a while.
Only if the gas cap or manual states you can. Usually flex fuel vehicles have a flex fuel sticker or badge somewhere on the car. If you put it in a non flex vehicle you will run into starting issues and can damage the engine because your compression ratio is not tuned for it. It’s like putting 110 octane in a 87 gas car.
So if I'm running a 6.0L and computer out of an 05 Escalade I can convert to flex fuel injectors and wire in the sensor to convert to E85 and the computer will not need to be changed?
The computer should not need to be changed. However, there are tune changes that will need to be performed. Also, the modifications to the engine are going to play a factor in what mechanical parts are needed.
@@TheTuningSchool Modifications pertaining to what? I'm planning on running all the factory sensors hooked up, stage two cam, bigger injectors w/ truck rails and turbos. What other mechanical parts are needed besides a larger fuel pump?
@lManson Campos The 05 Escalade ECM (P59) will need tuning to Enable the Flex Fuel Sensor and to Change the Stoichiometric Air Fuel Ratio according to Alcohol percentage so the ECM can use that stoichiometric reference table to know what AFR to run at different Alcohol percentage mixes.
Mason Campos No such thing as a “Flex Fuel Injector” In high HP applications you may need larger injectors and pump, but they are not specific to Flex Fuel/e85
E85 will make you lose 33% mpg... Butt its usually 1/2 the price of 93. Sooo it's actually a net gain in savings. Just make sure you drive long enough to evap the water in the fuel tank.
Definitely a big price difference between setting up a fuel system for E85 vs pump. Having the mindset of wanting to use E85 because it’s cheaper rather the benefits of your setup is not the way to go.
@@66hayloss66 don't even worry about, it's all just a scam between the government and automakers, they don't care if your engine breaks. Just run what it was designed to run and dw about saving the environment.. you'll get better mpg with 93
cmdrdredd Ethanol is very forgiving. That being said, the harder you push your engine combo, the more exact the tune and fuel percentages need to be. Best of luck making great power!
The E85 standard is 51-83% ethanol. So las long as the ethanol content is 51-83% at the pump, it's E85. It's not a quality issue. If the ethanol content is below 51% at the pump, then you'd have a right to complain because it is not E85.
Did you seriously just say you have to tune at each fillup? Na, you don’t, if you have a good tuner, your car can be tuned to simply adjust fueling/timing based on 02/AFR readings. I daily drive an E85 tuned LSJ Cobalt, I have ZERO issues with running E85 year round, car runs a little richer in the winter… I’m talking a 0.1-0.2 max on my Wideband. Other than that, no noticeable difference in drive-ability. My testing at the pump shows a MAX swing in ethanol content of about 13%, summer months it’s always straight 85% at the station I use. Lowest I’ve seen in the winter is between 72%-76%. So no, you don’t have to pull your laptop out and tune when the percentage changes. If you wanna be safe, go light on the throttle in the winter months, but my tuner says I don’t even have to do that. Car makes about 30whp more when the temps are around freezing anyway lol I still don’t bash it in the winter thou. I’ve put 15K miles on the car in the above described conditions, no issues with the engine whatsoever. Still pulls the same vacuum as the day I installed the new longblock (also 15K miles ago). And FYI, Ford does not use Flex Fuel sensors in their Flex Fuel vehicles, the PCM simply adjusts fueling maps/timing when the O2’s see a rich/lean condition change after fillup. No sensors. I personally don’t have a preference to either, although sensors do fail…. and if they fail… your cars PCM isn’t going to know what to do. In that sense, seems like Fords solution is safer.
I want to point out the most misleading argument against E85 vs regular fuel. In theory ethanol (not E85) can increase fuel consumption up to 30%, but all comparisons you can find are 100% ethanol vs. 100% gasoline. In real life E85 has 85% ethanol, max. Regular fuel has 10% of ethanol, always. If you do comparison between what you find in the gas pump, the difference is even smaller. I have 1993 Mazda MX-3 V6 with eFlexifuel kit and i have calculated the increased consumption about 10-20%, 15% being average increase. I save a lot using E85, because sometimes i fill up with E85 and it contains only 50% ethanol and consumption is only 10% more.
1:54 not really, the difference in stoichiometric ratio between E85 and regular fuel comes from oxygen content in fuel, E85 is an oxygenated fuel, regular fuel do not content O2, that is why those fuel have different stoic ratio and that is why once you put E85 your lambda increase
I dont have a theory. because I have tuned many cars over to e85. So I've actually tested different content mixes of ethanol. I think you are confused and have half of the full picture. If you pour ethanol Into your gas tank of your car. You will indeed lean out, causing your lambda to increase. Assuming your fuel trims are not reacting to the fuel change. Or you do not have 02 sensors. But if you increase the amount of fuel that enters the engine it will bring your lambda back to 1. Your "theory " suggest that e85 Carries enough oxygen to achieve combustion with out the need of air ? So if I ignite e85 in a vacuum chamber it should ignite ? It is oxygenated but it does not carry as much o2 as you think .
@@DynoLess Oxygen content of ethanol is 35%, this where the difference in AFR comes, It might not be enough to ingnite under vaccum but that is a lot no ? sorry for my english
If you want to present the truth about E85, you have to present truthful facts. First off, with E85, you're getting 51% to 83% ethanol, not 40% to 60% ethanol. The energy content of gasoline vs ethanol is irrelevant. Concerning yourself with stoichiometric values is a waste of time. Worrying about the difference in BTUs between ethanol and gasoline is a waste of time. If the energy content of a fuel in an internal combustion engine was significant, then every internal combustion engine regardless of how it is optimized will get the best performance on the highest BTU fuel. This is never the case. An engine optimized to run on ethanol will perform equal to or better than an internal combustion engine optimized to run on ethanol free gasoline. Moreover, there are many instances where a vehicle optimized to run on E0 or E10 will get its best performance with ethanol-gasoline blends between E30 and E50. This has been known and proven for more than 100 years. The notion of energy content and BTUs was developed in relationship to boiling water for steam to power steam engines. Internal combustion engines do not, under any circumstances, run on steam. If you have an ICE vehicle and it's producing steam, you have a faulty radiator or radiator hose. Pull over, turn off the engine, and find some water. In addition, although there is a BTU difference between gasoline and ethanol of approximately 33%, the burning of gasoline is so inefficient that it loses about 25% of its energy content (this is why and how debris forms in your engine). This means that there is not a 33% difference, there is about an 11% difference in the effective energy content between E0 and E100. And, if this wasn't enough, since all "gasoline" in America at normal retail pumps is E10, then you would never get a fuel with 116,000 BTUs, it would be less. Since E85 can range from 51% to 83%, you would never get an ethanol fuel that has a BTU value of only 76,000 BTUs, it would always be higher. Therefore, an E10 fuel that has lower BTU effectiveness because of inefficient burning and ethanol dilution might have only 5% or 6% higher BTUs than E85 that has only 70% ethanol. This means there is never a 30%-33% reduction in MPG between using a low ethanol-gasoline blend and a high ethanol-gasoline blend unless a person's driving characteristics and route between the comparative runs are vastly different. I'm unaware of any mass produced vehicle that only runs on E85. Flex fuels vehicles can run on any blend of ethanol-fuel, as well as on ethanol-free gasoline. What's more, a flex-fuel vehicle is not optimized to run on ethanol, it merely is capable of sensing the fuel being used and will adapt the best it can. If you have a vehicle that is tuned to only run on E85, then it is a track car and no one will actually try to drive the vehicle across country using an 85% ethanol fuel except as a stunt or experiment. All vehicles of any age, and make can use ethanol-gasoline blends. I've personally tested various ethanol-gasoline blends in hundreds of press-media vehicles that I've driven over the past 20 years (I've been regularly test driving and reporting on vehicles for 32 years, but ethanol-gasoline blends have only been regularly available for the past two decades). I also owned a non-flex fuel 2002 Ford Taurus for several years. I used it specifically as a test car and used everything from E10 to E85 without any converter or change in spark timing, fuel injectors, or adjustment in the length of the piston stroke. Naturally, the Taurus did not run as smoothly using E85 as it did using E40 or E10 because the onboard computer couldn't make the necessary air adjustment. Recently, at the end of June, my wife and I drove from Northern California to San Diego, and back, to attend graduation at the Marine training base. The drive is about 530 miles each way. We drove a non-flex fuel 2021 Nissan Altima. Driving down we filled up on E10. We made it all the way on one tank full, averaging 35 miles per gallon of fuel. Driving home, we filled the 16.2 gallon tank with 8 gallons of E85, and topped it off with E10. We encountered more traffic on the return trip (same highway route), with some bumper-to-bumper traffic around Anaheim and then again near Stockton - this should have negatively impacted our average MPG. We made it all the way home on one tank, averaging the same 35 miles per gallon of fuel (it would have been an effective blend of about E40 assuming that the E85 was around 83% ethanol and the E10 was around 10% ethanol). The cost of the E85 was $1.30 less per gallon than the E10 (E85 was $3.19 per gallon, E10 was $4.49 per gallon). If I had filled the entire tank with E85 I would have saved slightly more than $21.00, nearly 30%. What this all means is that I got equal MPG performance and saved a good amount of money using a higher ethanol-gasoline blend (that theoretically had less energy content). I cover the history of ethanol, the politics behind it, and much of the real science regarding it all in my 600-page book THE ETHANOL PAPERS. It is available to read online for free on my website.
In brief - do you want to say that even non-flex fuel vehicle can be fueled with e85 with no risk of damage to engine? I have Fusion Sport Ecoboost 2.7 (2017) and driving around Europe, in France there're real problems with gas at the moment, but e85 is available, so I'm wondering. Driving e15 I didn't notice any difference comparing to non-ethanol fuel.
@@Drag0nheart91 Engines are tuned and built to run on the specifics of a particular fuel. If you use another fuel, it's possible that the performance of the engine will be different (it could be worse or better). But different performance doesn't mean "damage" to the engine. When talking about "damage" caused by ethanol, people usually attribute problems that are caused by gasoline and aromatics. Ethanol burns cleanly and dries cleanly, and it is more compatible with more types of metals, rubbers, and plastic than gasoline and aromatics. This means that ethanol is less corrosive than gasoline and aromatics. What I wrote about in my initial post above was my experience with using some E85 in a non-flex fuel engine to approximate ethanol-gasoline blends that are significantly higher than E10 or E15. When I have used only E85 in non-flex fuel vehicles the engines may run rough and my MPG may suffer, but there is no greater "damage" caused to the engine and components than what the gasoline has or is already causing. Remember, even in E85 there is still some gasoline and aromatics being used. It is the gasoline and aromatics that leave gummy deposits and burnt carbon that can build up and foul plugs, filters, etc. If you are successfully running on E15, you may wish to try upping your ethanol blend by adding a couple of gallons of E85, and see if there are any performance changes. If that's successful, add a few more gallons of E85, and test that. When you get to optimum performance (usually determined by the best MPG), you can go with that. However, depending on weather conditions and driving necessities, you may need to change your fuel mixture from time to time.
Hi, you are the most knowledgeable person I have seen this far on E85/flex fuel. I was wondering if u can answer my question, I have a 2012 Chevy Malibu flex fuel edition. And I have been running it on E85 solely for the past year or so... I recently just had my fuel injectors and mass sensor (?) Replaced and my mechanic said to run it on 91 for two weeks then I can go back to E85. This is my pref fuel because its the cheapest here on socal. Do u think that will be okay to switch from 91 to E85 mid tank/ empty tank / mixed, or at all? What are your thoughts?
@@maloriramos3881 Flex fuel cars are perfectly capable of running on any ethanol-free gasoline (E0). However, why would you? In particular, why 91 octane instead of 89 or 87 or 85 (if you're in Colorado? Did the mechanic offer a reason for his suggestion? Did he provide any supportive resources? If it's just his "voodoo" technique I'd say skip it.
I don't know if this dude is trying to hustle products or just doesn't really know what he's talking about. You can very easily just convert to E85 and live you life not having to worry about if your fuel is 60% or 85% ethanol with no ill effects. 40% on up has about the same effective octane, your fuel trims will change with a big shift but won't be a problem.
I had a 2007 Yukon with a flexfuel I ran E85 for 2 years without any issues. I now have a 2016 F150, and i bought it because it was flexfuel. It's been running great without any issues or the delay he claimed. I live in California. Regular gas is 4.99 a gallon and E85 is 2.98 a gallon so thats a difference of $115 dollars to refuel with regular gas and $60 with E85. I installed a scanner that can read the E85 rating and i have never gone below 77%. it gets me about 2-3 mpg less on E85 but even with the price difference its still cheaper to go with E85
Same page brother
We got a Tahoe with a flex fuel
And yes it gets a lot 2-3 mpg less, specially city driving, but gas being in my area about $5.00 plus per gallon, while $2.89 for e85, it just makes a lot more sense and yes we also fill up with $60 of e85 vs close to $150 with regular premium fuel
E85 is $2.079/gal at Casey’s; Franklin KY
This might be my favorite car channel on CZcams
Thanks for making this video👍🏾
wow great video it help make a decision for my build coming up, the best video on e85 and the flex fuel tech so far!
Awesome, thank you! We're happy to hear it helped you out!
PCMTEC software for us Ford users in Australia. Allows the use of flex fuel and to blend maps (fuel, ignition, boost) together...
Water/meth or lpg even if you wanted to I suppose!
Just an FYI, you did not explain the difference in stoichiometric values correctly. You stated that because it has a lower BTU content, you need more fuel to make power. Stoich value has nothing to do with the energy in the content in the fuel. If you combust both fuels at their stoich values, the energy released in the E85 will be lower and with a different energy release curve (e85 has a slower burn and higher resistance to ignition).
The correct explanation is because you have less energy during combustion after you reach the same lambda value, you need to add more air (and thus even more fuel) plus more timing to get more power. This allows you to access power that was previously restricted due to knock limitations based on engine design and operating conditions.
Still a solid video on e85, just that one bit that was miss-associated
You're correct he did explain stoichiometric value incorrectly but so did you in your 2nd paragraph. Stoichiometric is merely the value at which fuel burn most efficiently, meaning the best burn not the most power. LPG has a stoic value of 15.5 and a lower calorific value but can, and in liquid phase injection does, produce more power due to the removal of latent heat from the intake air stream as it is entering the cylinder (or in the case of direct injection it lowers the latent heat within the cylinder itself). Thus stoichiometry has very little to do with "power" output but alot to do with fuel efficiency (as in MPG).
@@michaelau5159 I think you misread my comment. I said for a given lambda, you make less power with all else being constant of course (i.e. same boost, temps, timing, etc). Lambda is not the same as AFR and has nothing to do with stoich values themselves. It's actually the ratio current AFR to stoich AFR so a stoich burn for any fuel is 1.00, but usually run about a .80 for turbo engines. Multiple that by your fuel's stoich value and you get your AFR.
Getting an e85 car to run the same lambda as gasoline will cause you to lose power. It moves the knock threshold allowing you to advance the timing more and run more boost without knock. It gives you a more stable and controllable burn.
You are correct that power and AFR are not directly linked.
5:37 clearly said it.
@@wrotedog he said it... incorrectly, which was the point of my comment mate. I just came to add some more information to the conversation 😉👍
Stating that E85 needs a tune every single time you fill up is a bit of a misnomer. It’s a VERY forgiving fuel. As an example, in a carbureted application, you only need to change one jet size for every 5% change in the mixture. So if you have your carb square jetted with 94’s for e85, and then run a 80% fuel mix the next time you refuel, you drop one jet size to 93’s.
I installed a flexfuel kit on my 2002 Mustang GT with stock injectors and fuel pump. And it's working fine with E85. I didn't do this for environmental concerns. I'm still testing it to see if it was a good investment.
Yea, this video was basicly a commercial for Proflex. What they did was bassicly talk shit about every flexfuel so that proflex seems like a better choice
The bowser at the fuel station I go to (Australia) says "Always contains 85% ethanol"
A consistent ethanol content is more likely to mean bad gas station. The reason the Ethanol content in E85 varies is because of the seasons. When its hotter you can run more Ethanol than when its colder. One of the reasons being that ethanol has a much bigger cooling effect than normal gas. When its really cold outside starting your engine with a high ethanol content might become quite hard.
Have a nissan titan with flex from the factory. I have avoided it for fear of "lower grade" gas before. Honestly, just didnt know anything about it. Im going to try it out now on the titan!
Mine ran well on it 🫡 GO TITAN!
Matthew Broderick knows a lot about cars!
I hope you can answer this question. I have an LS3 75 pound injectors, Pro Charge, big blower cam. Should I install a Continental Fuel Sensor and run E-85 and will this add HP to my set up? What are the risks and downsides to the above? Happy 4th of July. Where are you guys located in Florida?
Question is, did Ferris run e85 in the Ferrari?
The Ford Mustang with 12:1 compression stock loves e85 and makes huge power on a flex tune. As long as your tuner unlocks that’s ability. You can watch the computer learn it after fueling up and it is very close and thousands and thousands of people run flex tunes and they work great? Not sure what you mean by bad and slow learning and rough running? Maybe older cars but 18+ mustangs work great and learn fast and add timing instantly after it learns
He's likely talking about stock sensor less tunes on older vehicles.
Hurray for having flex fuel from the factory.
Amen 🙏 Family!
E85 a great octane booster? What is the octane #?? I tested my local E85 and it was 70%.
90s 3800 v6. Just install 42lb injectors and go. Fill Up with E85 and enjoy the Supercharger.
This could be a dumb question for most of people,but I wonder if 96 will damage a 2018 Honda Civic Ex L ?
Question. None ethonal fuel is pretty available in GA is that a good fuel to get a tune for on a daily driven/ track car for road courses and auto cross?
Typically, no. The lack of ethanol most likely is going to lower the Octane rating. This makes running the fuel in a performance application less than ideal.
Its Georgia, we'll find a way, tune that shit. Too many cars here run on it so well, our climate is best for it
So a 2007 Chevy flex fuel Tahoe should have no problem with filling up on regular 87 octane one day and E85 another day ?
The 2007 Flex Fuel Tahoe will run on both fuels even a 50/50 mix ?
GM has a sensor, so it constantly updates the tune for the mix in real time.
Would like to see a comparison between E85 and 110 octane
Jeff Baker E85 is still better. It’ll out perform most race gas short of Q16, methanol, and nitro.
I’d love to tune my F150 but basically it’s not practical if it’s flex fuel and I fill up with different fuels?
If it has built in factory flex fuel capability just make sure you're running below half a tank every time you fuel up, and allow it to relearn.
E85 can cause problems. with Yukon. Drop your oil pan and take a look. My understanding is there will be sludge based on another video I saw: "When E85 Sucks!". Appears not to work well for those who let the vehicle sit for a while.
What I'm wanting to do is build a ford 300 I6 turbo pulling truck run it in e85
Nice! Keep us updated on it.
Ive never used E85, never even knew my truck took it but can i just add it? im kinda nervous, its a 2006
Only if the gas cap or manual states you can. Usually flex fuel vehicles have a flex fuel sticker or badge somewhere on the car. If you put it in a non flex vehicle you will run into starting issues and can damage the engine because your compression ratio is not tuned for it. It’s like putting 110 octane in a 87 gas car.
My concern is what about the oil, if a run everyday e85 i have to chanche oil sooner? Or the same
You'd want to change it sooner, maybe 1-2k miles sooner to be safe
So if I'm running a 6.0L and computer out of an 05 Escalade I can convert to flex fuel injectors and wire in the sensor to convert to E85 and the computer will not need to be changed?
Mason Campos yes you just tune your current ecm to enable it
The computer should not need to be changed. However, there are tune changes that will need to be performed. Also, the modifications to the engine are going to play a factor in what mechanical parts are needed.
@@TheTuningSchool Modifications pertaining to what? I'm planning on running all the factory sensors hooked up, stage two cam, bigger injectors w/ truck rails and turbos. What other mechanical parts are needed besides a larger fuel pump?
@lManson Campos The 05 Escalade ECM (P59) will need tuning to Enable the Flex Fuel Sensor and to Change the Stoichiometric Air Fuel Ratio according to Alcohol percentage so the ECM can use that stoichiometric reference table to know what AFR to run at different Alcohol percentage mixes.
Mason Campos No such thing as a “Flex Fuel Injector”
In high HP applications you may need larger injectors and pump, but they are not specific to Flex Fuel/e85
I like fords o2 wideband better than a flex fuel sensor.
can you run pure Ethanol on a flex fuel vehicle?
Depends on the exact vehicle and if the injectors ate big enough for E100 but most likely they are.
E85 will make you lose 33% mpg... Butt its usually 1/2 the price of 93. Sooo it's actually a net gain in savings. Just make sure you drive long enough to evap the water in the fuel tank.
Definitely a big price difference between setting up a fuel system for E85 vs pump. Having the mindset of wanting to use E85 because it’s cheaper rather the benefits of your setup is not the way to go.
e85 is more expensive than the highest octane fuel where I live lol
@@66hayloss66 don't even worry about, it's all just a scam between the government and automakers, they don't care if your engine breaks. Just run what it was designed to run and dw about saving the environment.. you'll get better mpg with 93
@@66hayloss66 Which city and state do you live in?
@@TheAutoChannel not USA
Forgot to mention that e85 can corrode certain parts if they not compatible
that’s solely for vehicles built pre-2001
omg ferris bueller???
Must have some crap station for E85 where you're at to be getting 40-60% lol. I never see below 76% here and average is 80%
Yeah, I live in the northern east coast and we see a much higher average here. Helps a lot that every 3-5 miles is a gas station that carries e85.
Damn you lucky. Where I’m at max is 56% sadly
cmdrdredd Ethanol is very forgiving. That being said, the harder you push your engine combo, the more exact the tune and fuel percentages need to be. Best of luck making great power!
The E85 standard is 51-83% ethanol. So las long as the ethanol content is 51-83% at the pump, it's E85. It's not a quality issue. If the ethanol content is below 51% at the pump, then you'd have a right to complain because it is not E85.
Did you seriously just say you have to tune at each fillup? Na, you don’t, if you have a good tuner, your car can be tuned to simply adjust fueling/timing based on 02/AFR readings. I daily drive an E85 tuned LSJ Cobalt, I have ZERO issues with running E85 year round, car runs a little richer in the winter… I’m talking a 0.1-0.2 max on my Wideband. Other than that, no noticeable difference in drive-ability. My testing at the pump shows a MAX swing in ethanol content of about 13%, summer months it’s always straight 85% at the station I use. Lowest I’ve seen in the winter is between 72%-76%. So no, you don’t have to pull your laptop out and tune when the percentage changes. If you wanna be safe, go light on the throttle in the winter months, but my tuner says I don’t even have to do that. Car makes about 30whp more when the temps are around freezing anyway lol I still don’t bash it in the winter thou. I’ve put 15K miles on the car in the above described conditions, no issues with the engine whatsoever. Still pulls the same vacuum as the day I installed the new longblock (also 15K miles ago). And FYI, Ford does not use Flex Fuel sensors in their Flex Fuel vehicles, the PCM simply adjusts fueling maps/timing when the O2’s see a rich/lean condition change after fillup. No sensors. I personally don’t have a preference to either, although sensors do fail…. and if they fail… your cars PCM isn’t going to know what to do. In that sense, seems like Fords solution is safer.
And how come every other video that says I’m telling the truth is different from what you’re saying
Time to switch to E-85 even E-100 fuel. Ford was originally designed to run on ethanol.
Corn is for livestock. Also why is e100 not everywhere? Alcohol and gasoline don't mix.
Put the gas cap on the door!!
With E85, you get 20 - 25% less mileage than regular gasoline.
I thought flex fuel and e85 was the same thing
E 85 burns faster
Charlene cruz
I want to point out the most misleading argument against E85 vs regular fuel. In theory ethanol (not E85) can increase fuel consumption up to 30%, but all comparisons you can find are 100% ethanol vs. 100% gasoline. In real life E85 has 85% ethanol, max. Regular fuel has 10% of ethanol, always. If you do comparison between what you find in the gas pump, the difference is even smaller.
I have 1993 Mazda MX-3 V6 with eFlexifuel kit and i have calculated the increased consumption about 10-20%, 15% being average increase. I save a lot using E85, because sometimes i fill up with E85 and it contains only 50% ethanol and consumption is only 10% more.
0:35 I don't care what type of fuel you use, if you're putting it on your vehicle, you're doing it wrong.
1:54 not really, the difference in stoichiometric ratio between E85 and regular fuel comes from oxygen content in fuel, E85 is an oxygenated fuel, regular fuel do not content O2, that is why those fuel have different stoic ratio and that is why once you put E85 your lambda increase
Wrong
@@DynoLess wrong what ? develop your theory, I'm interested in :)
I dont have a theory. because I have tuned many cars over to e85. So I've actually tested different content mixes of ethanol. I think you are confused and have half of the full picture.
If you pour ethanol Into your gas tank of your car. You will indeed lean out, causing your lambda to increase. Assuming your fuel trims are not reacting to the fuel change. Or you do not have 02 sensors. But if you increase the amount of fuel that enters the engine it will bring your lambda back to 1. Your "theory " suggest that e85 Carries enough oxygen to achieve combustion with out the need of air ? So if I ignite e85 in a vacuum chamber it should ignite ? It is oxygenated but it does not carry as much o2 as you think .
@@DynoLess Oxygen content of ethanol is 35%, this where the difference in AFR comes, It might not be enough to ingnite under vaccum but that is a lot no ? sorry for my english
@@jeepgarage Your English is better than mine. Lol.
Flex fuel 2 bucks.... 91 super 4 bucks and climbing lol ill find a station that sells it in cali
Im 777 like lol
If you want to present the truth about E85, you have to present truthful facts.
First off, with E85, you're getting 51% to 83% ethanol, not 40% to 60% ethanol.
The energy content of gasoline vs ethanol is irrelevant. Concerning yourself with stoichiometric values is a waste of time. Worrying about the difference in BTUs between ethanol and gasoline is a waste of time. If the energy content of a fuel in an internal combustion engine was significant, then every internal combustion engine regardless of how it is optimized will get the best performance on the highest BTU fuel. This is never the case. An engine optimized to run on ethanol will perform equal to or better than an internal combustion engine optimized to run on ethanol free gasoline. Moreover, there are many instances where a vehicle optimized to run on E0 or E10 will get its best performance with ethanol-gasoline blends between E30 and E50. This has been known and proven for more than 100 years.
The notion of energy content and BTUs was developed in relationship to boiling water for steam to power steam engines. Internal combustion engines do not, under any circumstances, run on steam. If you have an ICE vehicle and it's producing steam, you have a faulty radiator or radiator hose. Pull over, turn off the engine, and find some water.
In addition, although there is a BTU difference between gasoline and ethanol of approximately 33%, the burning of gasoline is so inefficient that it loses about 25% of its energy content (this is why and how debris forms in your engine). This means that there is not a 33% difference, there is about an 11% difference in the effective energy content between E0 and E100. And, if this wasn't enough, since all "gasoline" in America at normal retail pumps is E10, then you would never get a fuel with 116,000 BTUs, it would be less. Since E85 can range from 51% to 83%, you would never get an ethanol fuel that has a BTU value of only 76,000 BTUs, it would always be higher. Therefore, an E10 fuel that has lower BTU effectiveness because of inefficient burning and ethanol dilution might have only 5% or 6% higher BTUs than E85 that has only 70% ethanol. This means there is never a 30%-33% reduction in MPG between using a low ethanol-gasoline blend and a high ethanol-gasoline blend unless a person's driving characteristics and route between the comparative runs are vastly different.
I'm unaware of any mass produced vehicle that only runs on E85. Flex fuels vehicles can run on any blend of ethanol-fuel, as well as on ethanol-free gasoline. What's more, a flex-fuel vehicle is not optimized to run on ethanol, it merely is capable of sensing the fuel being used and will adapt the best it can. If you have a vehicle that is tuned to only run on E85, then it is a track car and no one will actually try to drive the vehicle across country using an 85% ethanol fuel except as a stunt or experiment.
All vehicles of any age, and make can use ethanol-gasoline blends. I've personally tested various ethanol-gasoline blends in hundreds of press-media vehicles that I've driven over the past 20 years (I've been regularly test driving and reporting on vehicles for 32 years, but ethanol-gasoline blends have only been regularly available for the past two decades). I also owned a non-flex fuel 2002 Ford Taurus for several years. I used it specifically as a test car and used everything from E10 to E85 without any converter or change in spark timing, fuel injectors, or adjustment in the length of the piston stroke. Naturally, the Taurus did not run as smoothly using E85 as it did using E40 or E10 because the onboard computer couldn't make the necessary air adjustment.
Recently, at the end of June, my wife and I drove from Northern California to San Diego, and back, to attend graduation at the Marine training base. The drive is about 530 miles each way. We drove a non-flex fuel 2021 Nissan Altima. Driving down we filled up on E10. We made it all the way on one tank full, averaging 35 miles per gallon of fuel.
Driving home, we filled the 16.2 gallon tank with 8 gallons of E85, and topped it off with E10. We encountered more traffic on the return trip (same highway route), with some bumper-to-bumper traffic around Anaheim and then again near Stockton - this should have negatively impacted our average MPG. We made it all the way home on one tank, averaging the same 35 miles per gallon of fuel (it would have been an effective blend of about E40 assuming that the E85 was around 83% ethanol and the E10 was around 10% ethanol).
The cost of the E85 was $1.30 less per gallon than the E10 (E85 was $3.19 per gallon, E10 was $4.49 per gallon). If I had filled the entire tank with E85 I would have saved slightly more than $21.00, nearly 30%.
What this all means is that I got equal MPG performance and saved a good amount of money using a higher ethanol-gasoline blend (that theoretically had less energy content).
I cover the history of ethanol, the politics behind it, and much of the real science regarding it all in my 600-page book THE ETHANOL PAPERS. It is available to read online for free on my website.
In brief - do you want to say that even non-flex fuel vehicle can be fueled with e85 with no risk of damage to engine? I have Fusion Sport Ecoboost 2.7 (2017) and driving around Europe, in France there're real problems with gas at the moment, but e85 is available, so I'm wondering. Driving e15 I didn't notice any difference comparing to non-ethanol fuel.
@@Drag0nheart91 Engines are tuned and built to run on the specifics of a particular fuel. If you use another fuel, it's possible that the performance of the engine will be different (it could be worse or better). But different performance doesn't mean "damage" to the engine. When talking about "damage" caused by ethanol, people usually attribute problems that are caused by gasoline and aromatics. Ethanol burns cleanly and dries cleanly, and it is more compatible with more types of metals, rubbers, and plastic than gasoline and aromatics. This means that ethanol is less corrosive than gasoline and aromatics.
What I wrote about in my initial post above was my experience with using some E85 in a non-flex fuel engine to approximate ethanol-gasoline blends that are significantly higher than E10 or E15. When I have used only E85 in non-flex fuel vehicles the engines may run rough and my MPG may suffer, but there is no greater "damage" caused to the engine and components than what the gasoline has or is already causing. Remember, even in E85 there is still some gasoline and aromatics being used. It is the gasoline and aromatics that leave gummy deposits and burnt carbon that can build up and foul plugs, filters, etc.
If you are successfully running on E15, you may wish to try upping your ethanol blend by adding a couple of gallons of E85, and see if there are any performance changes. If that's successful, add a few more gallons of E85, and test that. When you get to optimum performance (usually determined by the best MPG), you can go with that. However, depending on weather conditions and driving necessities, you may need to change your fuel mixture from time to time.
Hi, you are the most knowledgeable person I have seen this far on E85/flex fuel. I was wondering if u can answer my question, I have a 2012 Chevy Malibu flex fuel edition. And I have been running it on E85 solely for the past year or so... I recently just had my fuel injectors and mass sensor (?) Replaced and my mechanic said to run it on 91 for two weeks then I can go back to E85. This is my pref fuel because its the cheapest here on socal. Do u think that will be okay to switch from 91 to E85 mid tank/ empty tank / mixed, or at all? What are your thoughts?
@@TheAutoChannel.
@@maloriramos3881 Flex fuel cars are perfectly capable of running on any ethanol-free gasoline (E0). However, why would you? In particular, why 91 octane instead of 89 or 87 or 85 (if you're in Colorado? Did the mechanic offer a reason for his suggestion? Did he provide any supportive resources? If it's just his "voodoo" technique I'd say skip it.
I don't know if this dude is trying to hustle products or just doesn't really know what he's talking about. You can very easily just convert to E85 and live you life not having to worry about if your fuel is 60% or 85% ethanol with no ill effects. 40% on up has about the same effective octane, your fuel trims will change with a big shift but won't be a problem.
You clearly have 1 clue what you’re talking about, that’s it.