Keynote: Where Web Tech is Going Now - Steve Sanderson - NDC Porto 2023
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- čas přidán 4. 01. 2024
- This talk was recorded at NDC Porto in Porto, Portugal. #ndcporto #ndcconferences #web #developer #softwaredeveloper
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It’s nearly 2024, and the web continues to dominate the software landscape. Innovation proceeds in all directions, with new frameworks, build systems, and architectural patterns emerging at pace. But where are we all heading? Is there a pattern? What’s the next big phase?
In this keynote we’ll look at the common trends across web frameworks: disruptive new features that are showing up across technologies and changing how web apps are built. This is a technical, demo-centric, and occasionally advanced talk, digging into live code examples in Next.js (React), SvelteKit, Blazor, Astro, and more. We’ll see how these and others are setting a similar path for the next phase of web technology - and how you could implement the same features yourself without any framework.
Finally, we’ll catch up on the state of WebAssembly and try out WASI preview 2 - the upcoming reinvention of WASI. Will it finally achieve the dream of seamless interop across all languages, operating systems, and CPU architectures? Will it become the standard for server-side cloud programming? Let’s build something with it! - Věda a technologie
Impressive how much content you can put into a single presentation. Good job Steve! 😮
It great to see how much influence Phoenix Framework's Live View had on other frameworks, just sad for it not to be mentioned.
Steven is the best! :)
Wish curl was utilized more to peel off more of the magic layers
Steve does it again. Brilliant presentation.
Why does everyone who do these web tech history timelines forget about Flex? I get it was not perfect, but it did have a huge impact. and we are still trying to fill the hole it left.
I love listening to Steve! If only SSR in Blazor would be AOT.
they are working on it.
@@obinnaokafor6252 hopefully they really do. But in all honesty, we will have to wait a year to see the light of that. And from experience that initial version is pretty limited. Microsoft would have a killer solution now for solutions using HTMX. None of the other tech stack can offer together with a productive language. But since Razor leans *heavily* on reflection and must be used everywhere I am not hopeful.
I like “clink,” accidentally coined around 29:10, for “click on a link.”
The ability to use wasi to make, in effect, an all-languages interoperable package system is both terrifying and amazing. Now the question is will the tooling exist for it to make it usable. (Including importing wasM into existing web frameworks, which as is kinda sucks)
Steve is just amazing.
Steve is amazing. Blazor is an exceptionally excellent web application framework ❤
There's a really easy to avoid sending navigation content over and over again: use a JS file that does a doc write. Yeah, yeah, complain about doc write, but it's instantaneous
Pretty awesome talk.
Now I'm craving a damned good cup of coffee...
I'm currently a Microsoft developer and have been ever since my first experience with C# in the early 2000's. With that said, I can't take anyone serious that thinks django and ASPdotNET ruled the internet from the 90's up to 2005, but fail to mention Java - which for enterprise web applications from the late 90's through the early 2000's was THE major server-rendered tech. App Servers? All Java. There was also this period where a few Microsoft clowns that would write .NET books without mentioning Java, claiming that C# was entirely based on C/C++. The best writers such as Jon Skeet mention Java, but I disagree with his comment that C# would still exist had Java never been a thing. I think we'd still be doing MFC and Visual Basic...
And for the young bucks that weren't around for the first period of enterprise web development, "App Servers" were a major part of this. A few of the major products at the time were BEA WebLogic, IBM WebSphere, and Bluestone Sapphire/Web on the commercial side. On the OSS side, there was JBoss and while not a full app server, Apache Tomcat was frequently used to build small to medium-sized web applications. I used Caucho Resin on several applications at the time. It was a commercial product, but IIRC, it had a flexible license format that allowed free use in certain circumstances.
Amazing!
Steve is the best! Coffe + Twin Peaks - love the idea 🙂
thank you steve. long live knockout
WASI is COM and CORBA reimagined...
I'm so confused how this talk managed to not even mention HTMX when it comes to partial server side HTML rendering.
Dumb remark htmx is meant to remove js from the equation, that is an alternative that has nothing to do with this talk
htmx is basically jQuery++ - nothing special about it. It's not new, it's not that exciting, it's literally a wrapper around jQuey "get response, replace DOM with selector"
This is all cool but the thing about WASM is that it claims that it will do a bunch of stuff, and then the committee behind it change the vision so many times that it no longer claims to do what you were hoping. WASM originally claimed to be a byte code format for the ***WEB*** and interface types would allow us to expose browser API's natively. Then that changed to a new name, and now its under the "component model" that Steves showing off in this demo. Are we getting it? Who knows, the focus of WASM this week seems to be WASI and server sided execution. Maybe next week it will be embedded systems. Or hey, maybe we'll get lucky and actually finish a defined proposal.
that's what happens when you want to "get it right" in V1
@@Qrzychu92 Its almost been 10 years. How long do you need to be confident about a specification. We're not even talking implementation details here. Look at any other language and see what they have done in 10 years.
Yeah, its a hard problem to equate for no doubt, but come on... decide something and stick with it. There's a reason why every other language hates breaking changes and deals with technical debt rather than starting from scratch every 6 months.
"Javascript is great now" Yeah IDK about that
Can we please stop overloading the term "render" in web tech? It's HTML *generation*. Rendering is when the browser goes to paint the page on the screen.
Or I could use HTMX + Alpine + WebComponents + Server Templates and be free of this madness. Nothing against Steve, he's super smart and I appreciate his work but I think we've lost our minds.
what madness?4 different technologies instead of 1? :) plus, HTMX is just a specialized version of "enhanced navigation" - nothing "different" there
@@Qrzychu92 4 technologies instead of 1 is a stretch. C'mon now.
@@Qrzychu92 One? That's funny... Have you built a real application using a Microsoft stack?
Srrsly ... why should I care about server side rendering? For Servers I need to pay hard earned cash. Clients are free. I want as much client side rendering as possible! I want the opposite: A framework that offloads server loads onto clients in a distributed peer-to-peer nature.
Yawn.
Try a Gantt chart as dead HTML from the server.
This is all very well if you’re just creating fancy forms to submit to a server like most HTML authors (they’re not software engineers) do.
But if you are creating highly dynamic components with hundreds of moving parts and interactions then is bollocks.
Seems like we've found the Gate Keeper for the definition of "Software Engineer". Thank god. Can stop looking now...
DevExpress not only has a Gantt chart as "dead HTML from the server", but they even offer it for dead platforms like Web Forms.
Webassembly shouldn't even exist