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Three MIC PREAMPS compared! Can you hear the difference?
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Let's compare three mic preamps both clean and pushed hard!
Today German producer Kristian Kohle (Aborted, Powerwolf, Electric Callboy, Hämatom, Van Canto, Emil Bulls) compares three great sounding mic preamps on vocals. From affordable to expensive, from clean sounding to highly colored sounding.
The mic pres used in this video (affiliate link):
➡️thmn.to/thocf/gz45gm8l7f
The microphone used (affiliate link):
➡️tinyurl.com/29ga65ag
Check out René's band WIGHT:
• Wight - Atlas (Officia...
The mic splitter:
➡️www.atelier-der-tonkunst.de/p...
And don't forget to check out my academy KOHLE AUDIO KULT:
➡️www.kohleaudiokult.com/
Subscribe to my email list to stay connected:
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00.00 Intro
02:23 The Test Setup
04:22 The three Mic Pres
09:07 Clean Comparison
14:03 Slightly Distorted
19:13 Let's go crazy!
22:45 Vocal Preamp distortion with the WARM MPX
27:14 Bass and E-Piano
29:28 Outro
Which preamp would you get and why? Let me know!
I would get Audient its best value overall and preamp is great in my opinion 🤘
the WA-2MPX fer sure!
Get solid built gear, without surface-mount components. Last longer, easier to fix/mod and keep value better. API and Neve = yes please!!!!
In this example the WA 412
I have an audient. One thing i don't know, is it better when you record guitar to go through a DI box into balanced into the mic pre and push the level or go straight into the Hi-z? Are they different A/D converters? Which is better?
These comparing videos you do are really cool, Kohle. Keep em up 😝
Love your video's and information bro, learning a lot from you: thanks a lot for your videos
As a vocalist I've been on a huge journey of going straight to interface to now a golden age 73 clone. What impresses me the most, in post my plugin eq and comp moves are completely different. I went from spending hours trying to cut out harsh high end ringing frequencies to using very small moves with analog pre amps. Lastly, I've been watching a ton of videos on the Warm MPX, and this is exactly what I'm looking for next. I feel like in a plugin world, getting it right at the source.. Very warm and round building block (waveform) makes life so much easier in post. The MPX sounds like a tone shaping machine leaving tons of room for adding the type of high end you need with plugins. I'm buying it!
Hi, can't you get the same result using vst preamps on post (Decapitator or UAD emulations)? Does the real amp so different to it?
Awesome as always, brother! I think there may very well be an MPX in my future...
For the kind of stuff I work with I'm partial to the MPX. It's VERY versatile. Great shoot-out. I like anything that enables my tone box addiction... LOL!
Very cool video! Thanks for checking out the WA-MPX and giving it a whirl! Nice to see the WA-412 making a cameo too. 😉
Thanks a lot! The MPX is a clear winner! 🤘
I’m a sucker for the Coil Audio CA-70 but also love the Ampex 601 units that Electric and Co refurbish.
Thanks Kristian for this video, i really like how tube pre behaves.
I know you like it dirty! 😜
Nice sounding Pres. I’ve use 5 different Pres for my recordings. I compare them before i just record.
The MPX sounds amazing.
I've watched several demo/reviews of the MPX and this one has sealed the deal. I must have it. Already own a WA412 and love it on most things -- drums especially, but also guitars, keys, vocals -- all sounds great. I'd say it has the midrange punch the API gives and I could hear it in the solo'd vocal takes. Dope ass tune as well -- Great stuff Kohle!
💪❤️
They’re all good. It’s cliche, but “different tools for different jobs” is just the way it is. I’ve been using an id44 as my main interface since they were released and I still use it over much more expensive ones most of the time. I love a 1073 or API always, just gotta try them each for every source and you just never know. Been wanting to try some WA stuff too, I’m always down for overall value.
Awesome video as always! Is there a plug that can add similar tone of warm mpx to clean audient tracks?
Thank you!! You are a bad ass producer!
I was already leaning toward the Audient; after this, I'll get the Audient... it's clear and has many features for a home studio, next I could add some of the nices rack pre amps and re-amp using the audient cause I know it will not add distortion to the new track. Thanks for another great video!
You're revealing all my secrets. I have a similar 1U 4 channel API clone (niche brand) and a similar 2 channel tube pre (including the mic/line/instrument options) plus some other preamps (I tried a WA12 but I didn't like it). I often "reamp" VIs through analog gear to get some character which works really well as you demonstrated. I also have an Apollo x8p, so I shot out my analog gear against the UA unison preamps and I never used the UA preamps (with or without the plugins) again.
For vocals I’ll record with a tube mic, a ribbon mic and a measurement microphone, all have their benefits/character, at mixing I’ll then mix the signals together using whatever part of the microphone signal for whatever I need, sometimes a stage vocal mic too (Sennheiser 435/445 at the moment)for monitoring and even more variance when it comes to mixing, of course the preamp I’ll use is what I feel is best for that microphone attributes.
In case anybody is wondering why a 435/445 as well I find it is a great control system for microphone discipline, most people are used to working with a stage microphone and therefore you can position the other mics, not many singers these days have so much studio experience and it’s a great way to give the singer a focus and sound that they are more used to, but anyway each to their own, without necessarily „dasein‘s Berechtigung „ needed…
I've used the wa-2mpx as a guitar amp as well. The tube distortion is fantastic and with the ir technology, you can really use it as a "silent" guitar amp for recording or reamping!
Wow!
ach was! gude rené :D
Great video! As always! How are you routing your Behringer P-16?
I have an Audient but now I want a Waarm audio WA-2MPX...😂
Totally a distort your pre amps guy!!
Great video and awesome song!
Thank you!🙏🙏
I would probably get the preamp that gives me the most bang for the buck (weighting in the frequency response and noise floor) and use plugins andother external hardware for saturation.
So now I wanna buy that tube preamp
Wow!!! Get a warm/round sound is very important and sometimes hard to get!
I recently did an upgrade on my drum recording setup to using an Audient ASP800 from an old Ramsa console as my preamps. I was expecting them to sound better, but I wasn’t expecting it to be as different as it was. Maybe I’m not the best example to second your nod to Audient preamps, given my lack of experience with other high end ones (Neve/API/etc). But man, do I absolutely love the way they sound. Definitely invest in a set of them and add color other ways later during the mix, if you can’t afford Neve.
The ASP800 is awsome, until it fails… then it’s your nightmare. This applies for all gear with surface-mount electronic components.
I prefer gear with solid componenta that can easily be fixed, that both last longer and keep their value better.
@@Krypt666Norway Is this a common occurence? Or, are you speaking theoretically? Because I tried to research to see if it had any kind of fatal flaw, and didn’t really find anything like that.
Mine had problems with HMX and IRON on channel one. I’ve heard others had the same problem. Swapped it within warranty and sold it.
Channel 1 & 2 are awsome, but I would choose ASP880 if you insist on Audient.
Hey Kohle, Kool Komparison! For Drums would you rather take the Warm Audio WA-412 or the Camden from Cranborn? Would be for the shells mainly. Cheers
They’re both great.
The Warm is more affordable, the Cranborne is a little more versatile.
I think when people start talking about stock interface preamps they often think they're unique, but they aren't. Off the top of my head RME, Apogee, Prism all use(d) Ti PGA2500/2505 IC mic amps. Sure, the analog front end differs but c'mon, they're all the same for all intents and purposes. This looks to be a WA sponsored test, but having their 4ch against the 3124 and then throwing a Neve circuit (especially for vocals!) would have been a strong move.
Awesome upload. Encourages me to know that budget preamps and AD converters are completely adequate for making serious records these days
At least the Audient stuff is!
I can’t vouch for any other designs! 🫣
@@KohleAudioKult I would say also SSL 12 sounds fantastic and has more full sound. I would be very happy if you would test the new SSL 12. Sounds I think bigger than Audient ID44 MK2
You forgot the 2000s lower budget micpres with a tube in it. Like the dbx386 or the (first generationd) MIndprint Envoice. I have both - they were my first preamps back in 2000 - but I didnt bought it for the tube, but for the other features (the digtial part of the 386 is outstanding). And the 386 has a drive poti.
And for drive I had the SPL Charisma! I sold it, because it used it less and less. I used it to drive mics of (bad) toms. But I managed to never had bad toms anymore.
i often cranked the gain of the bass drum channel.
That brings me back to the days when I started. ❤️
I still have some of the older mid-priced DBX gear
These tests always prove to me, the difference between high end pro gear and affordable consumer gear is so subtle that it just doesn't matter. These differences can be compensated for in one way or another. Basically, focus on your skills, not your gear.
With the Audient he had to have more gear to make the distortion work, because it can't be done by itself. To a certain logistical degree the gear does matter.
Exactly bro. What matters the most is not the gear, or the fancy plugins we all want to use, its litterally our ears. At least for me from a mixing perpective.
@@legacyShredder1 I was really just taking about sound quality. They all sound great. Even videos comparing plugins to hardware, the difference is usually negligible, and can be made up for with different processing. As long as you avoid audible aliasing, you don't need much to make a great sounding record.
@@jeremylarue4503 lol I don't know how or why, but it seems I deleted my first sentence that said "In terms of audio quality I 100% agree."
@legacyShredder1 Fair, but the vast majority of users would capture a clean take and use a plug in or send to outboard gear post tracking
Would be really interesting to compare vst Rhodes/Hammond thru this Warm Audio preamp with the real ones, especially using real Super Satellite Rhodes system.
All in all, another cool video, thanks Kristian.
The other ones don't have a line in!
for air and natural ambience the MPX takes the cake on vocal. I mostly record drums, and in that case the WA412 sounds the best to my ears. Audient is really good though but it just leaves you with a squashed feeling on the transients. I mostly use Focusrite Claretts at the moment. But I am probably switching to Audient Evo 16 soon (and 1-2 SP8) just because they are soooo fast to work with.
Nice video! I'd love to see more Audient ID24 vs more expensive stuff :)
You did see the drum video with the Evo16 right?
Hell yes I did :) @@KohleAudioKult
What are your thoughts on recording with something clean, like the Audient, and adding the grit in afterwards with plugins like Decapitator or something?
Can you get the same result? Or is there truly something magical about physical mic pre’s that plugins can’t match(in your opinion)?
Decapitator ist a great plugin and of course you can achieve great results that way.
But I gotta say the tube circuit in the Warm really sounds great and it’s inspiring to touch that thing!
Daseinsberechtigung is my new favorite word. Danke Herr Kohle!
Haha!
When I typed it in I thought like: This is what every German word looks like to the rest of the world!
How do you toggle the solo instantly in cubase?
How do you fatten up guitar into DAW and make it sound big again, i.e., fix how they get thin and small sounding? I was thinking a WA73 mic pre might do it, but I am not sure it would fatten things up much more than my Audient mic pres. I will get colour, but probably not fatter and thicc etc.
I have noticed the problem with any type of distorted guitar into DAW, whether models, tube preamps, or my amps and reactive load. The signal gets thinned out and sounds so small compared to a 4x12 etc. That makes sense due to how a mic only captures a tiny slice of the amp's sound, while our ears hear much more of the amp's output.
The only amp I have that does not thin too much out is my plexi replica running thru my power station. That thing just gets so fat when its saturating, but into DAW it still sounds small, even though single note lines are phat as phuck, especially with a Les Paul or SG.
The tube preamp I just got is an IR-X. It's great and the best direct solution I have tried yet, but it does sound a little thin and small too. I just about hit buy now on the WA mic pre today, but I am thinking that's not the fix for that skinny smallness thing. I am missing something about how to get tones in DAW I think. It probably requires learning something new, instead of buying something new.
Off topic, where did your URM academy videos go?
I loved those, and above the videos themselves, I loved the introduction music in them.
They removed them.
@@KohleAudioKult those, bastards!!
That's a nice namedrop for Ridge Farm! Not sure whether the Gas Cooker was also designed by Pierre-Olivier Margerand, but he built for them a very nice (but just as gnarly and highly coloured) version of the SSL LMC called Boiler, and he still sells a MkII version of that under the POM Audio brand. I've never got near one; if anyone happens to find one, it would be nice to hear a review!
The Boiler is great! ❤️
brilliant look into sonic paintbrushing, k could you do a cubase or convertor external routing in and out showing how to use the mic pre or external hardware as a plugin vid as its a great way to work and usefull to fellow cubase users maybe, be great to put some drum bass guit through the mpx vs api maybe :) would love that one
Thanks! Noted!
Yes that would be interesting Kk.
I do love my audient id14!
First, I loved this Test/Video, its what CZcams is great for so thank you!
A couple of thoughts to add:
A) every analog circuit will distort at some level. The gear was usually designed to avoid that distortion, but engineers test the distortion of Everything to see if it gives us anything we like. I call it the "Art of Distortion". Experiment with everything.
B) Audient, originally and still a Console company, made thier interfaces to include the Same Mic Preamps as in thier flagship Consoles the 8024.
Those mic Preamps are designed to be super clean and super Fast without being sterile. They capture what you send into them Without adding color of thier own, by design. And again they are super fast, so sharp transients.
C) As you partially pointed out, they also decoupled the Mic Preamps from the actual Interface Converters in a simple yet brilliant way. It allows you to think of it as two devices instead of 1: its a pair or Audient Console Mic Preamps; and a Line-Level audio Interface.
You can use them both together of course, or like in the video use one or the other on its own. In this case the Preamps without the Converters.
D) You can also though Insert anything in series between the two.
Mic --> Preamp Inputs (Mic Level).
Sends/Preamp Outputs (Balanced Line-Level) --> Outboard Gear.
Outboard Gear --> Returns/Converter Inputs.
E) I say all of that to say that, you also could have (as in anyone else reading this) INSERTED the Tube Pre between the Audient Preamps and Converters, and dialed in the Tube distortion "on the way in" much the same way you did in post, but while the Artist is performing against the chain. Also, on the front end, you can dial the say Audient Preamps against the Tube Preamps and find a combination sweet-spot in the signal chain.
I know you know all of this, and that you were primarily demonstrating the differences between the Preamps, and not all possible combinations.
But these are the thoughts in my mind for anyone watching this videos and taking the ideas into thier own studio to try.
Also, once you think of all of these as block in a signal flow or links in a chain, you could really combine all of these peices in various configurations and get many different results.
How about Super-Fast Audient -into 312 Transformers -into Ampex Tubes, blended to taste.
Great to hear that!
Since I only wanted to compare the preamps I had to skip the converters the AUDIENT.
And yeah, you could use outboard gear in the insert either to add distortion or pad the already distorted mic pre like I did in the video.👍🏻
It would have been interesting as well to have a different type of mic set up too to see how it affected the different preamps.
Also, what convertors going in and out were you using?
Great stuff. Thanks!
Absolutely. But a video like this is already two days of work 🤯.
The converters were SSL Alphalinks.
@@KohleAudioKult Thanks, and I certainly understand the effort you put in. Much appreciated always.
Finde ich schon nach 22 Sekunden geil. Letz go! 👌🏻✌🏼
Haha! So muss dat!
I love clipping snare through api style preamps. Love sending my mix through neve style preamps. Love driving bass through neve preamps....
You name it. You can do so many cool things with them.
During the recording session or during the mix?
@@KohleAudioKult Usually during mixing. Unfortunately i don't have a drum room so i record out at studios and then tend to be a little more cautious. I then often print some tracks through my hardware at home before i start the mixing process, or clip the snare through a preamp in the mix at the end of the chain.
Same here. Better be safe!
I think the tape sat needs a mix knob, appart with bass I've never heard a demo producing a usable sound with it.
I was just in the market for a preamp, in the end I went with the vintech x73i pairing with a U87
Great singer and voice!
Oh yeah. He’s awesome! Check out the link to his band in the description
can we have a full blown review of the Warm Audio WA-2MPX?
What do you wanna see?
@@KohleAudioKult would be great to mod that low pass filter to a 3 way switch 2/4/8/k and put in some nos glass!
Warm delivers a lot for their price range. I own WA273, WA Mpx, WA Tb, Wa 47. With the warm compressors I wasnt much conviced...
Never tried the compressors. The preamps are good!
Chris Cornell did this on his double tracks. Soo good!
Really? Distorted double track? With Soundgarden or Audioslave?
@@KohleAudioKult I want to say both? More like a heavy tube saturation than all out distortion that was blended in with a dry take, and not on every song obviously.
I can't at this time remember exactly where I read this either (brain cells M'kaaay? Ha!), but I'm positive he if anything utilized the technuique heavily on Badmotorfinger and Superunknown.
I'm kind of a Soundgarden nerd.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I actually briefly met Kim Thayil when I was merely a teenager at the 1992 lollapalooza tour date here in North Carolina! I've seen them live 4 times since that show. Obviously Chris's passing crushed me
emotionally. 💔
Badmotorfinger is the reason for my obsession with the Peavey VTM 60/120.
Currently don't have one, but being James Brown's (5150) first design for Peavey?!
Iv'e actually reached out to him via DM.
Needless to say Mr. Brown is a super humble guy, and his insight on designing not just that amp, but the iconic 5150 was mind blowing to say the least!!!
Holy crap!!!
I'm oversharing again...
Ha!
Thanks for the reply tho my dude!
Love the channel!
Cheers!
(Raises Pabst Blue Ribbon)
✌🤟🖖
First off... What a great vocalist! Awesome voice!
Im kinda leaning towards a Warm WA73-EQ. Any thoughts/experiences regarding a 1073-ish thing compared to the MPX?
Haven’t tried it!
But the MPX will get more dirty than any Neve type pre.
If using outboard gear to distort clean stuff, why not just reamp it through a cranked tube amp? I imagine a signal chain of reamper > head > cab/mic OR loadbox/IRs would yield similar results to overloading a tube preamp and adding filters.
Absolutely. That can be fun. The advantage of a preamp is that the distortion can be dialed in a lot more smoothly.
That's not an either or, just different Crayons in the box.
They may or may not yield similar results, but they will Not yield identical results, which means you have choices.
fuck me, this has got to one of the best channels on CZcams! Cheers!
🤘❤️
I bought the Audient ID14 for the quality preamps...
Good choice!
With a singer like that, even a toaster would sound good. 🤘
Maaaaan that tube preamp is nice.
Too bad im broke
In my world (Voice Acting) mic pres are absolutely vital to getting the right sound for dialogue. Having variable impedance is a game changer. It lets you really dial in a sweet spot. ...that can't be done on regular interfaces and on many lower level mic pres
Are you using a dynamic mic?
Because modern condenser mics don't show that much of a reaction to impedance changes.
@@KohleAudioKult I use LDCs. My Shure KSM32 in particular really brightens up depending on the impedance.
I use the ART TPS II by the way. It is super affordable for what it has to offer.
Great singer, who is that guy?
There’s a link to his band below!
I would rather get an Audient ID24 and run a warm Audio LA2A and 1176 compressors through the inserts for saturation and compression
Another option.
christ, lol.... that meat-head/Janis vocal part was a genius example, because it is
simultaneously both super-revealing of the gear
and also a perplexing lyrical ear-sty. Like wtf is _...while sitting in your "mam 2k"??_
so I wont be forgetting this video any time soon lol
19:42 Lenny Kravitz : “American woman” vibes
Golden age 73 pre with transformers is gold
This track sounds like Wight should go on tour with Marcus Deml's The Blue Poets
It’s not actually a Wight song. It’s just a little song that was composed for this shoot-out.
But there’s a link below. Have a look
@@KohleAudioKult Dann nutzt es wohl nix. Dann muss er wohl im Zweifel noch ein Sideproject aufmachen :)
Haha! Ich sag‘s ihm!
We use a Tubetech MP2A and everytime we mix a recorded signal through that preamp, we are just stunned how much better the signal is present in the mix. That goes for kick, guitar cabinet with a mic, as Bass DI and definitely vocals... If they weren't so expensive, we weren't discussing Neve, API, SSL, Warm Audio, Heritage or whatever. But imho Tubetech and Manley are the true preamp masters
Oh really? Interesting. Tube-Tech is great, I just haven't used their pres yet.
To me Audient sounds very good for the vocal, Warm Audio with tubes when pushed very slightly, 2520 based preamp not so much for this application.
Ampex aren't the best tube preamps.
I use a tube and transformer mic pre at the same time i cant stand the sound of just a bare interface
Use a plugin?
@@mrcoatsworth429 have you tried hardware tube pre ? Or neve style pre ? You can't compare a plug in with hardware
@@eancurtis9333 of course I haven't. Way too expensive. Sure you can compare the sound of hardware with plugins.
@@mrcoatsworth429 we'll try it I bet you will never go back to plug ins
Well, you compare cheap preamp with cheap preamps ! Try a Fearn, a neve....and you ll hear a difference !!! Even if mic is very important too, even more. And i think the vocalist is great but not the best option for a test....
The quality of mic preamps does matter, but the difference between a $100 preamp and a $1000 preamp is first of all not as great as a lot of people would like you to believe, and the difference between a $100 preamp and a $1000 preamp is a lot greater than the different between a $1000 preamp and a $5000 preamp. There is with these, as with all things, a point of diminishing returns, and expensive audio gear is very much subject to a cascade of post-sale justifications of the exorbitant pricing of the rarified models.
Of course it matters....if you're trying to sell one.
ive been listening to demos of various premps. to my ears outside of API and Neve most of them sound pretty similar. the Neve 1073 clones sound very close to the real thing. bottom line is to start adding analog gear where you can. ive come to the conclusion that , for the most part, plugins seem to be gimmicky. At some point it has to be ran through analog gear. whether its the recording stage, mixing stage or mastering stage. the sound of the transformers make everything rich sounding
So, with the free EQ in your DAW, you can turn your cheap mic preamp into the expensive one, but recreating the more expensive pre's inability to capture high frequencies
Not at all.
You don’t want those high frequencies when you distort your signal like crazy. It’s a totally different story when you wanna record a clean and „true to the source“ signal.
That just means sometimes the affordable preamp is better and sometimes the vibey preamp wins.
The Satantic Gear Scientist knocks it out of the park again
When detail is needed i go for condenser and a decent non-expensive micpre.
When sizzle is needed I go for better condenser and a nice transparent tube pre, like Blue Robbie.
When punch and mojo is needed nothing beats a good dynamic mic with a Neve or API micpre.
Different tool for different job.
They say the devil is in the detail, and with gear much so…
NO - when you scream into a mic, you're not going to hear the difference between microphones or pres. If the track is loud and dense, same deal. You pick equipment for BALLADS and OPEN, SPARSE or SENSITIVE WORK. Your equipment will then shine where it needs to... or you can clobber it over the head like this as well. Sick of hearing "shootouts" with crappy talent or screaming. Rethink this.
You may not like that kind of music, but saying that you can’t hear the difference between mics on these sources is nonsense. It’s actually very important to carefully choose the right gear on aggressive sounding sources!
Warm audio sounds like crap. Very cheap gear. I've been recording for decades. Stick with the classics. This new companies suck.
I’m using those units every day along with the classics. In gotta say I don’t agree!
@@KohleAudioKult yes I know you can dial in some distortion on that unit. But it sounds very cheap and brittle. Stick with the classics. Or show me a recording with just the cheap warm audio. And I strongly disagree bro!!
@@KohleAudioKult
They don't come close to, API, neve, UA, focusrite, great river, Grace. Even the diy stuff is better. And this unit sucks ass. It was and still is a damn flop. Maybe you are sponsored by them . But sales wise, they flopped on this one. Nobody I know has one, or wants one. Show me one established engineer that uses their crap. Not a stupid shilp either.
The voice just sounded too harsh and strident to judge, because it was so annoying to listen to. Should have used a different mic or at least a corrective EQ.
I hope so, i just bought a couple
Which ones did you buy?
Yes, when you add multiple tracks up, it definitely matters.
Jews