Unpopular Opinions of IF WE WERE VILLAINS by M.L. Rio
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Again, I want to reiterate that I loved the majority of the book. However, given the book is rooted in Shakespearean tragedy, I was so hoping that the ending would tug at my chest and rip out my heart. Is that a tad morbid? I mean, of course. Unfortunately, I felt that the ending of this novel was lukewarm in comparison to the rest of the book.
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#Shakespeare #BookReview
I just recently finished this book as well! I thought there were a lot of really unique and compelling qualities to it. As a Shakespeare fan, I thought is was so clever how the plays they did overlapped and intertwined with the actual characters and arc of the story. I couldn’t agree with you more about Richard! It just seemed like such a sudden escalation. Like they’ve been friends for years, and sure, he’s always been a jerk and bit of a bully. But now all sudden he’s acting erratic and lashing out violently? Why? They never really offered a good reason for his behavior, outside of maybe not getting the part he wanted.
They sort of did but it was definitely very half-hearted. The reason they gave, I think, was that all of the characters had slipped slightly too far into their roles, and Shakespeare's Caesar was definitely very abusive and all around not a great guy. I don't really like that reasoning cause it seems like a cop-out, but you know,, oh well,,
(It also showed through in Alexander and James as Cassius and Brutus)
@@alexmontay2325 That was one of my favorite aspects of the book! How they would subtly take on their characters traits. But yeah, his behavior escalating to the point of actual physical aggression because of his role doesn’t seem like a realistic reason to me. His character was just strange. I couldn’t ever really figure him out.
@@breelinshafer3393 tbh that's part of what makes it so interesting to me- any fan could analyze it as much as they wanted, write as many character essays, but they'd never really understand any of the characters. It's one of those books that only the author will ever really, truly understand, you know?
Maybe I sound pretentious, who knows lol
@@alexmontay2325 Very true. Authors have an understanding and logic for their characters that can be hard or even impossible for readers to fully discern. They leave a lot open for interpretation in that way, which is fun!
Another explaination of this I read from Reddit is that the story is told in the perspective of Oliver, so in order to justify his (and the whole group's) dicision to let Rechar die, he kind of leaves Richard's good stories and personalities away.
I actually saw a really interesting interpretation of the ending. it talked about how James letter to Oliver contained a part of the play Pericles by Shakespeare. Pericles was washed up on the shore and about to die, but he just about managed to call out to some fishermen. Pericles' lover assumes him dead, until they are later reunited.
The quote said 'To ask your help, which if you shall refuse, when I am dead, for I am a man, pray see me buried. The word 'if' implies that he is *not* dead yet, but this letter is in fact a call for help. James' body was never actually found, only giving us more of a conformation tot he fact he is not dead. So James is in fact still alive, but his letter is a call for help - a last resort for Oliver to save him from a life in pain.
I find this interpretation extremely interesting and eye opening. It brings a whole new aspect and level to the book, a whole world of other possibilities.
I also do agree on the charecter development. The way Richard seemed to randomly change his manner without warning and/or sign seemed extremely odd. A backstory or reason would have definitely been helpful. But I do enjoy books that leave open gaps for the reader to fill in themselves, makes them more unique to every different reader.
Wonderful video though! :)
You also saw that one TikTok explaining that, right?
But that’s not an interpretation it’s literally spelled out in the book that he’s still alive? Like it’s in italics and everything there’s nothing subtle about it. I actually would have liked the ending more if he was dead, it would play into the whole tragedy theme of the rest of the book but instead it just backtracks.
SPOILERS
I think wren would have been a better person to help cover what James did. Filippa wasn’t nearly developed enough to carry that weight, and I think putting wren in that position would have been a twist in itself.
nahhh wren was way to fragile and an emotional wreck, she definitely couldn’t handle it
@@user-yf6hb8oj7w but it kinda would’ve made sense for Wren to have carried the secret cuz of her being an emotional wreck (like her fainting in class and all that)! Although Filippa was a safe choice cuz she’s the quiet character who observes everything and doesn’t talk much. Wren could’ve made for an interesting plot twist.
i could totally see that. It’d also give a chance to give more development to wren’s personality making her fragility feel more vulnerable when everything is revealed as well as giving more of an explanation in the sort-of-romance, sort-of-not-romance, relationship we saw she had with james
Finally someone who is not saying that the book is prefect in every way. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. And as a person who was until a year ago in theatre I was so excited for this, but at the end of the day it was kind of a let down. Mostly the character development, or lack there of, is my biggest issue. So many things that could have made the book a masterpiece have been brushed over, without any explanation. I have a feeling if you took out the Shakespeare scenes, there was very little to them, and yes I know that he and his work was the centre of their universe, and we could spent days interpreting their roles through Shakespearian plays and how he influenced them. I'm all in for them becoming the roles they were playing, the obsession and intensity they were trying to portray, but most of the characters felt as if they were just put there to fill a role for the main character to have someone to talk to or get angry at, without any depth to it.
And it was so obvious, in the middle of act 1 most of us guessed who is the murderer and who got murderd. Richard had to be the antagonist, but we don't know why he became that way. He started as very self assured, a little arrogant, but not that bad, not in the way he became later on. Or was that something that was always there but Oliver and the rest didn't really see. A few times I felt as if Meredith and Wren knew what was going on with him, but in the end even that remained unexplored. Then the anorexic sister that was just put there to make financial issues for Oliver, and apperently they disliked eachother before that? Why? And if she was to remain brushed over why was she put in the spotlight in that way? I did feel like Alexander's addiction was kind of realistic, not in the sense that it was truly that explored but it's kind off logical that he'd break in that way, using more and more drugs in attempt to numb the guilt, especially when he was alone, like during the Winter Break, and I feel like his mind would go to darker places since he'd be cut off from the rest, so at the same time the whole thing would seem distant and as if it was happening all over again. And it would not be that strange that the others have not truly noticed much of a difference since they all have been struggling, they all have been on the brink of breaking and trying to deal with it their own way, but the fact that even after he was hospitalised there was no real discussion felt strange to me. It felt like here are different ways people handle a guilty conscious, but put it in bullet points. I would have loved to see more of their struggles. It's a good book, but it didn't truly reach its potential.
And I'm writing this on my phone with the most stubborn autocorrect ever, so sorry if it doesn't make any sense.
Thank you for validating my impressions. To me, the lack of character development made this book go from a potentially superb book and one of my all-time favourites to merely Ok. he could’ve added another 100-200 pages to do this and I would’ve been ok with that. And for me, Richard is the most significant character that could’ve been developed more, but James and Wren as well for sure
SPOILER
Personally I think Richard had the same problem as James in the later acts, being that he couldn’t get out of his character/both him _and_ his character became one person in a sense (seeing as how James became violent with Oliver when he took on the bad guy role)
From my perspective, this is what makes the book the masterpiece that it is.
Things were simply what they were. The actions spoke for themselves, with there being no need to spoon feed the reader the whys and hows and to create depth for the sake of creating depth (I feel like the story didn't call for that. Just the kind of book that it is.)
We simply got our answers through watching (well reading) the little things.
I felt like not every action needed to have this significant impact on the story as a whole. It just was what it was.
And if it were any other book, I doubt I would have liked it because not any author can pull that off.
But ML Rio did (in my very humble opinion)
So I understand the author's choice in not going into the depth of every element. It's a stylistic choice and fits the atmosphere of the book.
I guess this is the only way I can explain it? I'm struggling with words, I hope this made sense.
The conflict in this book was not conveyed through the words on the papers, but through the empty spaces between them.
I'm very late to this video, but no harm in sharing I guess.
Thank you for the review! I love hearing people's opinions on books that I love!
❤
Very well worded
I wouldn't call this a masterpiece. The characters are extremely shallow and one dimensional. And I don't think this was done on purpose.
It's a good book, but it's definitely not a masterpiece.
One thing you said a few times was that the issues weren’t exactly explored or solved. I actually enjoyed this to a point because I feel like it just made it sadder, because all of this terrible stuff is going on around Oliver, and no one’s speaking of it or trying to solve it if that makes sense, it’s just happening which is making everyone fall apart even more.
I really agree about Oliver's sister. I think that part was not only not explored enough but rather dealt with very terribly.
Other than that I really enjoyed the book and the ending for kind of twisting the statement made about a tragedy keeping your hopes up until the last minute only to then break your heart. I thought this had already hit me when Filippa told Oliver that James was gone but this wasn't the last minute yet, everything became a bit more hopeful, thus showing that their lives might not be tragedies going forward.
Very interesting to listen to other peoples' opinions tho!! All the best to you.
this is exactly how I feel about the book!! The ending just felt ehh but it was still an ok book
I think your opinions are totally valid ! I just finished this book and honestly, I think it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read but I totally understand where your coming from with the character developments and just throwing stuff into the storyline with absolutely no context or further thought.
I would describe this book as the best first 1 or 2 acts of a book. I was raving about the set up, the aesthetic and the friendship between the 7, one of the strongest parts of the book.
Agreed!
I didnt like how oliver treated his anorexic sister
Its a sibling relationship, its gonna be spoken about way more brutal i think he still loved her. Plus it was the early 2000 where ed were „normal“
Exactly my thoughts! I felt exactly the same about the characters, Richard and Felipa. I could not have expressed it better.
Agree that certain aspects were underdeveloped, especially Filipa. I loved the setting and atmosphere of the novel (I could picture the library and lake, etc), but felt the ending was rushed. Totally valid review.
Like i get that he might not like his siblings and that can be a character trait but he is described as a good and nice person by other characters and yet he has such resentment for his sister because she needs therapy
The ending really soured my mood especially because I did love the wonderful ride that was 3/4th of it
🙌🏼👏🏼
I feel the same I wanted to love it but you are ranting my thoughts I completely agree
I loved the book, actually most of it,
but there were a few things I didn't quite understand. I thought too that Richard was very one-dimensional. We don't get the whole picture of him. Only one side, his aggressive, egoistic villain side. And the thing is that if you don't know someone, you don't care about them. I did not whatsoever care about him as a person, I think If I did I would have been more invested in the storyline. Okay, fine, he's this one-dimensional villain. But even the worst villains have their villain stories- explaining why they are the way they are, right? Well, the only explanation we get is that he got lost in his role. That's one reason, but is that the whole reason that he just became aggressive all of a sudden when he was a perfectly normal person before? I think it would've made a lot more sense to get to him more, and dive deeper into his past life ( you could argue and say that there isn't time and space for that, but he is one of the most important people in the story, so I think it's pretty necessary to know who he is) and kind of make the reader like him and then slowly build up the tension and add small aggressions (the ones in the book were pretty much hard-core right of the bat and that made it a bit unrealistic for me) and then build up this arc to him being the villain. Yk? That makes sense to me. Richard was sort of a villain right from the start. Yeah, he got worse throughout the story, but only so much.
Another thing, everyone seems to be concerned about Richard's and Phillapa's lack of personality, which btw I totally agree with, but can we talk about Meredith? I felt like most of her as a person was: pretty, appealing to men, slut-shamed, rich family
And it does make sense to have that persona be how others see her, but Oliverrrrr?! He didn't know her deeper than that, which he -uhm- should if he was literally dating her ?? And he was like fine with that, too? But I guess that's just his personality. I don't know. I would have loved to get Meredith more, though. Kind of bummed about that.
I liked the ending. You either love an open ending or you don't, but I thought it was fitting for the story; it left room for speculation. Ohh and I looooved the dramatic part of it, the tragic love story.
Anyway, this is me picking the story apart and being very, very critical.
I LOVED reading it so, so much, and for me, it's a 5-star read. But yk, there are always things to improve no matter how exceptionally good the book is :))
My thoughts on the book exactly!!
I absolutely hated the ending. I'm to understand that two guys who were with women the entire book suddenly figure out they have feelings for each other, without any prior hints of this being the case. Okay, fine. It's clear that these feelings are more confusing to them than anything else. Then the protagonist decides to take the fall for this roommate and go to prison for him. For this ambiguous bit of feelings for him. Okay... Then the roommate, who was probably more confused than the protagonist, decides he should just commit suicide. What?! I can't be the only one who thinks all of this is just ridiculous. I agree that the first 2/3 or so was great reading, but this "twist" and ending is just horrible.
hey, random reader here! im really interested in how you feel like there weren’t any prior hints to them having feelings for each other, as i thought that the inner feelings of jealousy and the fact that meredith comments on oliver’s feelings towards james a few times were quite obvious hints to how they felt about each other. not attacking your opinion, just genuinely curious on how you interpreted their confusing relationship! & as for the oliver going to prison for him, i do agree that it was very out of the blue, but i interpreted that as him simply being naive and not realising the seriousness of his actions in just wanting to protect someone he loves, however at the end i think it’s clear that he doesn’t regret it as he says he still loves james even though he’s gone
There were many hints though, since the first act. Oliver mentioned how he thought James was attractive, he thought they had this indescribable connection and was jealous whenever Wen would flirt with him. The rest of the group also kept pointing it out, Meredith even confessed to be jealous of Oliver’s feelings towards James. It’s been there all the time.
I also didn’t like the ending, but to see you so upset about that relationship on the book and you calling them just roommates, makes me think this is coming from somewhere else.
Oliver has been hinting at his feelings for James since Scene 2, and he confirms it, i’m pretty sure, at the end of Act 3. It’s made clear throughout the story that they both have a deep intrigue in each other that they can’t really explain, although it’s less obvious from James, of course, because he’s not the POV character. But it was not at all sudden from either end. I’m really not sure how you didn’t pick up on this.
Also, they’re bisexual, Rich. They like girls and guys.
@@juliamarshall9164 Hints are one thing. Prison and suicide completely different. Agree to disagree on this one.
@@richnewman I will agree to disagree, but I do want to add one more thing. Regardless of romantic attraction, these boys have been best friends and attached at the hip for four years. They’ve shared a room and spent summers together and they love each other, romantic or not. If someone that close to you went to prison for you for ten years, would the guilt not eat you up enough to want to kill yourself? Or, rather, is it hard to believe that a drama enthused kid who’s immersed himself in Shakespeare would want to kill himself because of it? These things are meant to be dramatic because these are dramatic people. Their lives have essentially become a Shakespeare play.
Additionally, feelings don’t always make sense, especially when you’re just finding yourself. As someone who has been in love with a close friend, also at a time when I was discovering myself, it’s so dangerously easy to get wrapped up in it for no reason at all. Even if you know it’ll never happen.
Vain Villains