Jump Archetypes - The Speed and Power Jumping Spectrum - PT.1
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2018
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In the world of jumping there are two distinct jump archetypes (Speed and Power). This relates primarily to the way in which an athlete uses either speed or relative power to influence maximal jump height. This video will show you how these exist on a spectrum vs. independent of one another.
If you find this information interesting, I would love if you'd feel comfortable sharing it. I have been working for the years in the field of jump technique to create a language and further understanding of otherwise more complicated topics.
Here are two distinct ways to determine what end of the spectrum you fall closer to:
1) Difference between countermovement (standing jump) and full approach jump. A full approach greater than 4" better than a CM effort indicates a more effective use of speed, whereas less than 4" shows a reliance upon relative power.
2) Degree of knee flexion - The greater the degree of flexion during the amortization (loading) of a take-off can be an indication of the necessity for relative power output.
NOTE: Just because an athlete displays qualities of one end of the spectrum DOES NOT mean they do not display qualities of the other end. This will simply help to identify the technical biases and therefore help determine training protocols moving forward.
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Tyler Ray is largely considered one of the world leaders in jump training and technique. Tyler travels around the world lecturing and coaching athletes and coaches, more commonly in the world of jump technique. A 14-yr veteran of the Strength and Conditioning industry, Tyler manages an Athlete Academy out of Sweat Fitness and Performance in Tecumseh, Ontario, Canada. Tyler is a former professional dunker and track athlete who possessed a 48" vertical at the peak of his career.
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I'm 46 and got back into basketball last year. I've given myself the goal of dunking again. Nothing fancy, just a dunk. I've always been a one foot jumper, in basketball and track, everything I did was off one foot. I've got a way to go, but I'd like to be able to do atleast one dunk off two feet (pretty sure I'm a R-L). I've learned so much from your videos (and some other channels 🙂) that it makes me wish I had this kind of information in high school. Keep up the outstanding work. These videos are a f'n gift 🤘
U can do it , I believe in u. Just go on rhythm that u can follow
Love this type of video! Please make more videos! Want to learn as much as possible about jumping higher and training
This super useful Im a smaller dude so have trying to use speed approach but my CM jump is almost the exact same! This channel giving everyone tools to dunk
Your videos are really helpful keep up the good job coach 👌
Love videos like this. From my experience with olympic lifting, it can take years to develop an athletes strength, while technique can improve your lifts in weeks to months, when first starting out. With this concept in mind, which athlete is more likely to
be dunking sooner.
Athlete 1 - CM 9’10” Full Aproach 10’1”
Athlete 2 - CM 9’2” Full Approach 10’1”
Depends on the level of training for each of these 2 athletes individually. Let's say, they are beginners, with no training in any domain whatsoever. Then, I'd say the chances are pretty equal. Athlete 1 can work on improving the speed and will be able to increase his vertical quickly. Athlete 2 will work more on power/strength, and because they are beginners, they will also experience huge gains (all beginners do, at pretty much anything, with very little-to-none exceptions).
Another example would be to say that athlete one 1 hasn't done any speed training, only strength/power specific training at an experienced level. And athlete 2 actually has done both power and speed training for the same amount of experience (the same level of time trained). I would bet my money on athlete 1, as it is way harder to get gains from small bits of increase in strength and power than it is to get gains from one majorly lacking factor.
Again, depends on how you layout full scenarios.
One note that's quite interesting is that I have a suspicion that speed athletes like athlete 2, have generally better coordination & balance in such activities. So naturally, they are speedy and quite technical. Thus, for them, learning dunking technique is generally easier than a pure power athlete, who is generally on the bulkier side of body composition. For power athlete, working on balance, coordination, and technique is a slightly bigger hassle due to the way their bodies are built (naturally, big bodies are not meant to be super speedy, flexible and technical).
This is not to say that under no scenario athlete 1 can beat athlete 2 but given the constraint of time (as soon as possible to dunk), athlete 2 seems to have some extra benefits.
Can u explain me what "CM" is?
@@christotiroy866 I think he meant CMJ as in counter movement jump.
I think the spectrum should fall between Speed and Strength. The hybrid should be power. Power is strength and speed together in terms of physics.
Hobin I see what you’re saying and very much appreciate your comment! To me, strength is and always will be foundational to both ends of the spectrum. The reason I have chosen speed and power is that while strength and speed are elements of power, in an explosive event such as jumping, power is the measure we utilize (watts). Regardless of how someone jumps, there is an element of strength, speed and power required, but for the purposes of jumping the terminology seemed more appropriate. Thank you so much for the comment, it does make a great deal of sense.
@@jumpguyty Hey thanks for the reply. I think I get what you are trying to say. For example, using yourself as an example you utilize speed more versus power, as your running vertical is considerably higher than your standing vertical. But, for an athlete like an olympic weightlifter or NFL athlete who usually have a really high standing vertical, they are considered "Powerful". Of course, they aren't only considered strong because a standing vertical jump requires a degree of power, not only strength. So, I guess it's more so comparing two types of jumpers where on utilizes heavily on the pylometrics or the efficiency of movement and the other uses raw power.
@@hobin6777 The "power" athlete biases utilisation of muscular activation, with a RFD (rate of force development) produced over a relatively longer time and distance/RoM (i.e.Long SSC). Where as the "speed" athlete biases' the tendon structures elastic capabilities and utilises the speed/momentum of the approach to produce an equivalent impulse over a more limited duration and RoM (short SSC). All things being equal the power output of each type of jump itself is the same. Anecdotally athletes with a predisposition towards speed have tendencies towards athletic stiffness and high resistance to deformation in the relevant athletic position and tend to be a bit less muscular as they haven't been forced to generate force without the momentum of the approach, where as the athletes that haven't learned to absorb those forces in a sufficiently fast run up have to learn to generate the forces within those constraints an therefore end up working on generating force with the muscles spending more time on the ground. Again both are an expression of power and the art of mixing/balancing the best aspects of each of those qualities through training an efficient jump technique is in my estimation the art of coaching... I would say the idea of the strength to speed continuum is correct but leads to a battle of semantics because every sports action involves movement, which therefore means it sits on the power continuum. We would have to call the power jumper a strength jumper (I don't know, maybe that would be better, but likely more confusing for the general audience. Maybe we should give them more credit since I'm watching this too lol)
@@E4zyp34zyl3m0nsq33ZY hey this is the most scientific answer I've seen in awhile. Thanks for this answer. I guess based on your explanation an athlete with stiffness and stength output from muscle would yield the highest jumpers.
@@hobin6777 Glad it was helpful. Athletic stiffness is definitely seen as a positive quality with reference to sprinting and jumping. The short answer to your question would be yes, better athletic stiffness would correspond to better power output and better athletic performance since these are events are specifically associated with maximal power output and short ground contact times. To have the quality of athletic stiffness you would need able to load those tendon structures appropriately over the appropriate ranges of motion. Otherwise you would just be stiff in by way of being inelastic which is not athletic. To give an example if you drop a brick it might resist deformation but a bouncy ball is going to absorb and give more back under normal conditions, or maybe a the idea of a slingshot would be better where you need to be strong enough to actually pull the elastic cord back for the stiffness of the cord to be useful. The strength component is the ability to load those structures, and the neurological component is to be able to teach your body that dealing with those forces is safe so that your body doesn't inhibit your power output. I think it may be helpful to think of athletic stiffness more in the global sense as it refers to athletic postures (posture A to B and back again as quickly as possible)and then figure out what qualities are related to developing that outcome, since although we can bias these qualities with particular training modes they don't actually manifest themselves in isolation.
Very interesting topic. I definitely believe I fall under the Power category since I’ve been working on Olympic weightlifting for my volleyball training for the past two years. I notice my approach feels slow. Probably is slow from what my previous coach as told me. So I’m looking forward to watching more speed training now! Thanks!
Bang Out Volleyball there is a great video on overspeed approach work that will help with fine tuning the push and acceleration through your plant sequence! Have fun. Thanks for your support.
Isn't this better described as elastic Vs strength jumping. So elastic jumpers use their tendons more and convert speed / momentum into elastic energy. Whereas the strength jumper is relying more on force generated from the muscles.
Power is just W/t. If we are talking about ground contact them the "speed jumpers" transfer a similar amount to kinetic energy in a shorter period of time because of shorter ground contact. So they are "more powerful" than the 2 foot jumpers.
Since posting this many years ago, I have since began referring to them as contractile vs. elastic yes.
@@jumpguyty ah sorry then. I haven't seen your more recent videos. I'll check them out.
@@419er Best place for more up to date information is my IG @jumpguyty and @projectpureathlete
Cool topic man🔥
Dope vid!
I'm a power jumper but without power :D
Really need to work on the technique...
pretty cool vidéo ! i just wanted to know : can an athlete jump archetype change overtime ?
let's say someone who has few jump experience fall into the power jumper category, can his improvements and his learning of the mecanism and technique of the jump makes him change into a speed jumper ?
Hey Coach, what age(s) were you in your prime years? I’m 28 and trying to get back into dunking after just work life with no physical activity for the past 5 years. In my prime I had a 37.5 standing vert with a 41-42 1-step/running vert. I had no idea about speed jumpers and the power of the penultimate step. I want to see if I can hit 44-46 within a couple years by improving technique and hitting the weight room. I’ve never lifted since I took a class for 1 semester in high school. Any advice?
@Alejandro Gjezi thx for the feedback man! Good luck to you! I'm hoping to hit my goal in about 2 years at 31.
jordan standing vert was 35,93 and running vert wa 45 in off one foot at north caroline so he is more oa speed guy. he dunked with both one and 2 ft take off but jumps higher when he takes off with one
@L J not really a power jumper is like vince carter jordan gets his lift more from his speed he needs more momentum ( steps ) to get his max vert while a power jumpers needs just 3 steps or so
Damn.. dude, the prime you had some serious bounce 🥵
Hey coach it seems i'm a power jumper as i nearly have the same standing jump as approach jump still i don't bend my knees alot when jumping and use a lot of speed does that mean i can't translate it to vertical ? It seem i Drive forward when jumping
U probably have bad technique iono I’m the same way
I know is old video but if i am sped jumper should i focus more on plyometrics and sprint or more o. Strength lifting weights?
Ask him on ig if you on ig
im afraid that if I do a strength phase that I will become slower. I might improve my standing vert but it may reduce my full approach jump. how do work on both simultaneously and how often in a typical week. ex 3 days heavy lifts, 2 days plyos?
In the short term you may lose SOME ability to express full potential, but by adding some additional strength/power, when you taper and start training more athletically you will have a greater full potential. I have a feeling you won't lose much if any throughout the training block!
Project Pure Athlete thank you for all the tips. Should I do a month of strength phase followed my month jump plyo phase. I will be sure to share you my progress on IG
You should do like a 2 months strength phase followed by a period of power phase and maybe a week or so of ploys before your big jump session
My CM is 21inches and my full approach is 33 inches. I guess I really got to work on my power.
Are you familar with Sparta Sciences three factor model, of LOAD, EXPLODE and DRIVE
Where LOAD is basically rate of force development especially during the eccentric, EXPLODE is ability to maintain stiffness and minimize force leekage and DRIVE is ability to deepen flexion and extension to improve overall impulse.
What is your take on thinking about the jump through this three factor model rather then the speed/power binary?
Hi! Thank you so much for your comment first off. The Load/Explode concept is something that is quite universally understood and simply refers to the 3 stages of jumping (preparatory, propulsive and flight). The Speed/Power archetype is the "type" of jumper vs. denoting the actual jump itself. What the archetype (speed/power) looks at is the management of velocity through back-end mechanics (ie. if I give an athlete an approach, how well do they utilize the additional potential energy?). I have just conducted the first ever
study that examines approach variables and the influence on take-off efficiency/toe-off angles. By typing a jumper, we get a clearer picture as a coach how to design their programs. The typing lens (speed/power binary you spoke of) doesn't nothing more than that and doesn't replace any current philosophies of thought, but more-so parallels them as an additional variable to consider.
@@jumpguyty I am interested see that study of the approach jumps, been watching a lot of your videos and thinking about the application of the ideas to jumps and flips in parkour.
What kind of exercises should I do if I am a Speed athlete ?
I will follow this up with additional videos. Thanks for your question!
@@jumpguyty Will you do the same for the other kind athlete "The Power athlete "? !!! pls do it xD love your content ^W^
my standing and running vert is pretty much the same :D
Same any advice?
What?
Thanks for the view! Is there something I can help clarify?
Hi, I love your content, but it would be great if you have subtitles in Spanish for the entire Latin American and European community. 💪🏼
Dilan Castillo is that something easily accomplished? I’d love to be able to offer that!
Well power = force*velocity so you can't have one without the other what you probably mean is force vs speed to create power. Strong vs fast basically
We have built off of this over the years. It's more-so elastic vs. contractile types. Largely the difference in ground contact times and how each athletes sources kinetic potential. Athlete A - approaches at higher speed, re-directs momentum through more elastic/quick GCT vs. Athlete B - approaches slower, requires longer GCT to produce high contractile forces through a longer ROM. Thanks for your comment!
@@jumpguyty that's certainly an interesting aproach...
love your channel coach and i appreciate that you care to respond to some idiot that commented on a 2 year old video you're a champ 🙏.
Im one foot jumper so am i a speed jumper?
do you private lessons for training athletes?
AMP TV yes, of course. Email me at projectpureathlete@gmail.com
when your standing jump is 21 inches but your running is 33😬
My man's Athlete 1 has a vertical jump of 10 feet. Dude be dunking with his own feet.
that's the jumping reach not vertical :D
Marty Nguyen oops